Living the dream with author and suicide awareness advocate Thomas Brown

Welcome, um, to the living the dream podcast with curveball. Um, if you believe you can achieve Chee Chee, welcome to the living the dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate, and inspire. Today I am joined by writer, by gastroent photographer storyteller Thomas Brown. Thomas does a lot of writing, he does a podcast, he does his photography, and he provides a platform for other people to share their stories. So we're going to be talking about everything that he's up to and about the platform that he's provided for people to share their stories. So, Thomas, thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you, Curtis. It's a pleasure to be on here. Appreciate it.

Seriously, why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself?

All right. How to slice this pie. Well, I am a podcaster, uh, an author. I just published my first book, which is a memoir of a cross country bicycle ride that I did for suicide awareness and the healing power of art. That book is called 2012 a bicycle, a, uh, 7000 miles bicycle journey for suicide awareness and the healing power of art that was inspired because I lost my brother to suicide in 2001. Um, outside of that, uh, I do a podcast. I have two podcasts on my podcast channel, rise frequency. The first one is called inner monologue, and that is the, um, that's a conversational interview show that I do. Uh, I started by just talking with people who had shared the same experience as me by losing a loved one to suicide. Um, and I realized that I wanted fairly, uh, soon on in the conception of that show, that I wanted to widen the scope of other individuals that were dealing with other issues, um, because suicide is that thing, that's the place that you don't want to get to when you're suffering with, um, any type of mental, uh, illness or struggling, uh, through a trauma. And so I wanted to kind of open up the door to talk with other individuals. So I've had people on the show that, uh, you struggled with addiction, uh, depression, anxiety. And the one common denominator with all of them is that some form of, uh, meditation practice and, uh, uh, a, uh, creative outlet were some of the tools that they used, uh, to cope with whatever they were dealing with or to even transcend past whatever they were dealing with. The other, uh, podcast that I do, and I've been doing more of this one lately. Um, I mean, you should know, it's really, it's difficult to constantly book people. And, uh, um, that was before I found podmatch. So I might start using podmatch, uh, to get more guests for inner monologue, but the one that I'm doing right now a lot is called stages, and that was inspired after losing my mom to cancer. I started recording that probably six months after, um, I now take care of my 78 year old father. It was his first time without his partner after 57 years. Um, and I really have been learning his life. My mom, my household was more of a patriarchal household, or not a patriarchal, sorry. Um, uh, it was totally. My mom ran the show, and now I'm brain farting on a matriarchal household. And, um, my dad is. I've been helping him, like, learn all of the backhand stuff that she did. So it's been interesting. So stages is really just about the stages of life. It's more of an audio diary than it is anything else. Um, and those are the two, the two, my two main platforms that I do photography has kind of taken a back end, but I still shoot, but I shoot for myself, I don't shoot for anybody else. So that's, that's become more of a, um, just something that I do for my own mind and my own mental health, that I'll go out with my camera and I'll just take pictures, or even like, if I don't have my camera with me, I have my iPhone, and I'm able to come, um, up with some pretty amazing pictures, doing some editing. Sometimes they'll even bring those photos onto my computer and do some tough chops with photoshop. But, um, that's very rare. Sometimes I just like the raw image, uh, and do slight cropping. But, yeah, I think art, uh, and creativity is, um, really important to me, and it really helps me manage, uh, my own mental health issues.

Okay, so as much as you can share, you know, share, uh, about your brother and talk about his suicide and anything else you want the listeners to know and remember. So your brother.

Yeah, my brother, um, he was a complex guy, but aren't we all? I lost him in 2001. I was 24 years old. He was older than me. He was six years older than me. And he was a dominant force, very, very, almost to his detriment. Strong ego. He kind of ran the household. He even had. He, he demanded more power, even from my parents. They came from, like, a small town in the midwest. And, um, my brother, you know, being an eighties baby and, like, you know, technology just way more advanced in the eighties than it was in the fifties when my parents grew up, that he, uh, just, he kind of dominated the household. And I didn't really. I didn't dig that. So as soon as I was able to, I actually got out of the house. My brother was. And I had a really great relationship when I was in school. When I was in high school and middle school and elementary school, both, uh, big. He got me into comic books. We both loved movies. Total movie nerds. We would be going back before you way, uh, back before you know that you could order your seat at a movie theater. We would always be going to midnight movies and having to get there hours and hours before so that we can wait in line to make sure that we got good seats. And that was just something that we did. We also played basketball together. My brother taught me how to play basketball. But as I. As we both got older, um, there's a lot of contention in our relationship. And the only time we really ever communicated was when we played basketball. And it was usually because we were beating the hell out of each other. Um, we both just have extremely different lifestyles. Um, we didn't agree with each other's lifestyles, but because my brother was so dominant, like, I was just like, hey, I don't agree with your lifestyle, but what do I know? Like, do your own thing. Just don't include me in it. And he didn't want to, uh, um, he couldn't. He couldn't manage that. He was a. He was a bit of a womanizer. And he had two primary girlfriends and then, uh, other conquests on the side. And I just didn't agree with that. And, uh, I was like, hey, man, like, you do your own thing. I don't, like, just keep me out of it. The problem was, is that one of those women were my. Was my boss and the other one was a friend from high school. So I was. And I just. I just tried to stay out of everything. Um, it wasn't until both of those women finally got over their own denial that they both left him. And, uh, the illusion that he created in his own head about what it is to make a man. And for him, for some reason, it was a conquest of women that as soon as that illusion was. Was, uh, uh, evaporated, he just fell into a deep, dark depression. And, um, that probably happened in early 2001, January or February. And by August 20, he was gone. So I can't really say that that was the trauma that that, um, affected me with my mental health. I think I was struggling with a lot of things before. I was very open to talking about my feelings. Uh, even as a young kid, I was a very emotional, um, I think that comes with the territory of just being an artistic person. I was very emotional. I didn't have a problem talking about my feelings or my emotions, but I. That didn't translate into, hey, I'm depressed. I should probably get some professional help. That came much, much, much later. But I do think that, like, my brother's death was kind of like the last drop in the bucket, and I just didn't know how to, you know, I thought it was my responsibility to take care of my parents, and they thought it was their responsibility to take care of me. And none of us, we did the best that we could dealing with that trauma and trying to pick the pieces up. Um, in the long. In the. In the end, it did bring my parents and I much closer together, um, that we were always completely transparent with each other, um, shared our feelings, told each other that we love. We love each other all the time. It really, like, brought us together, um, but it wasn't massively, um, healing for us until I feel like, at least for me, until I started to get therapy. And that wasn't until, uh, probably like, six years after my brother died. So, um, and therapy was really helpful because, I mean, you take your car in for tune ups. Why not take your mind and your heart in for a tune up every once in a while? I'm a big fan of therapy, and the one. The thing about a good therapist is that, like, they don't give you. And therapy is kind of like dating. You have to, like, find the right fit. Um, and so it might take a while for some people. If you. If you go out and you try one therapist and it doesn't work, then, um, you know, don't give up. Or maybe talk therapy isn't your thing, but there's other therapeutic methods, uh, out there that you just have to. I really invite people to, like, go and explore. But for me, talk therapy was very helpful because a good therapist kind of like, um, they don't give you the answers. They give you the space to come to the answers. And one thing that I always found pretty profound in a therapeutic setting is that an idea or thought or, like, more of a belief system sounds so much different when it's just in your head than it does when you speak it out loud. And I had so many, aha, uh, moments about things that. Stories and narratives about myself, beliefs in myself that existed in between my ears. And it wasn't until I spoke them into the world in front of somebody, um, that was you know, slightly removed from me as a therapist should be that I realized some of the folly in, in those belief systems that I did have for me with my brother. I really feel that his belief system and what it was to be a man was just like some weird patriarchal ideology that was more toxic than positive. And, um, he didn't have as. It's like he allowed society to dictate ideas to him rather than him understanding who he was on a fundamental level. And I think that's a problem in our society in general in terms of mental health, is that there's a profound lack of self awareness. You know, usually it takes like a trauma. I mean, self awareness is like anything. It's, it's like, it's like any other skill set. Some people are born and they just have this innate physical ability and they're great athletes. Some people are born and they have this innate ability to illustrate or to paint or to write. And so some people even are born with a great sense of self and they already have this. It's just, it's just part of their being. Um, for me, and I think for a lot of people, self awareness is something that needs to be cultivated and for the people that need to cultivate it, unfortunately, it happens either after a trauma, some type of event that is, uh, broken you spiritually, mentally and emotionally. Um, maybe you're in college and you wind up and you find yourself in some extra, uh, credit humanities philosophy class and your instructor is asking you to look deeper and ask questions about who you are and your place in this world, or you just have some. Maybe somebody offers a book to you, but it's not something that as a society, we are encouraged at a young age, um, to discover. And I don't know if that is either just a part of institutional negligence or it's more nefarious.

Uh.

My tin foil hat would lean towards the nefarious, but I think, um, more than anything, it's just, it stems from negligence because the people that are creating, um, institutional policies probably, uh, are lacking a lot of self awareness themselves. So I've really come to find that the importance, um, of understanding who I am. Like society is going to tell you what you should be, and it's important for you to know who you are and what you're about. Why do I believe the things that I believe in? Whether that's politically, uh, religious, um, family, uh, uh, your beliefs about sexual orientation or anything like that, like, why do I believe that stuff? Why do I respond to anything that might challenge that how do I respond to people that celebrate that? Um, and it's important to know, like, where society's influences end and you begin. Uh, I think it's the most important job for a human being, uh, that has the privilege to seek this out, because no matter what, from cradle to grave, you're stuck with yourself. And it's important to understand who you are. And the crazy thing about a practice of self awareness is that there is no finish line, meaning that you're going to be. On a fundamental level. There is this foundation that is you, that may never change, but how you view different things in life are going to be altered with each and every experience, with every new person that you encounter and meet, um, and become friends with. So I really find. I think that it's important for people to embark on a, um, journey of self discovery and self awareness. I think that with awareness, there's three. I found that there's kind of like three levels to it. You have self awareness, which is about you. There's spatial awareness, which is about the environment and the people that you interact with on a daily basis. And then there's social awareness, and that's about, you know, understanding, uh, the plight and of others. And I think that if you can learn to cultivate self awareness and compassion and empathy for yourself in your journey, ah, that you can spread that to, um, you know, gathering compassion, uh, and empathy for other people in their journey.

What made you. Speaking of self awareness, what made you decide, uh, that you needed to get therapy?

Um, I mean, just so I had been dealing with my brother's death, and, um, I found myself in a relationship that was extremely toxic. I was dating this woman for a while. It was extremely toxic, but I couldn't get the hooks out. I couldn't just leave. There was like, there's like this great anxiety of being alone. And I recognized that as being a massive problem. Like, we would have these horrible fights, really horrible things would happen, and then I would still take her back. And I just realized that, like, this is. I have issues and, uh, I need. I need to go figure this out. So it was therapy that, like, I sought out some help from a minister friend of mine. I myself am not religious, but I have friends of all, all flavors. And I sought out a minister friend of mine. Um, and she put me in touch with somebody that she knew. And, uh, the rest of that was his history. It was a profound experience just to, uh, be able to go in and chat with somebody. It's one thing talking with your friends, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's important to have a special friend who's going to tell you the things that you don't want to hear. It's just different when you hear that from a therapist because they don't have any skin in the game. If you get up and leave, like, they're not going to be, they're not going to be emotionally invested if you get upset, if that makes any sense. And I think that's important to have somebody that's going to be able to call, uh, b's, um, and call you out if you're dodging the questions, if you're talking around the subject or if you're not revealing enough. Um, therapy can be scary, can be totally scary because it, like, you're being, you're, you're putting your, you're willfully putting yourself in a situation to re. If you want to. If you want to get anything from it, to reveal some things that you've been afraid to admit to yourself. And, um, knowing going in there first to talk about, you know, why can't I get out of this relationship? Why am I stuck in this? She, my therapist took me on a journey through my life. I mean, the first few sessions was just her kind of like interviewing me to get more of a sense. Like, she asked me about my relationship with my parents, with my brother before he died, what type of kid I was when I was growing up. She really was putting this picture together for herself to give her a greater understanding of why I think the things that I think, uh, my upbringing, she just got a good foundational outline for who I was. And then she was very gentle and fragile. But she found ways when she saw that I was ready to push me and open me up to new perspectives and to see things about this narrative that I was creating in my head about myself that wasn't true. Um, and it was just. I'll be forever grateful, uh, to that. And I still. I still, like, from time to time, I have. I still. I don't see her anymore because she has moved away, but I'll still see. I have another therapist that I talked to, um, through my work. And it's been helpful, you know, especially with the passing of my mom, um, work stress and all of that. I have a lot of energy and, um, I have a lot. I could be very loud. I could be very, um, boastful and just a lot of crazy, wacky energy. And that's good if I have something to focus it on, like going to the gym or having an art project, writing a book, working on the podcast. But if I'm scattered and I don't focus, that, um, that energy can come out in negative, negative ways. I can get very moody. Um, I could, uh, I can think that I'm joking, but actually being kind of mean. And my partner, bless her, she's always, she's always. She's always able to be like, hey, when was the last time you had a session? Um. Um. She's like. Because you're. You're, uh, you're a little. You're a little raw right now, and you're. You're a little tense. Uh, uh, you should. You should probably get back in there and work some of this out. And I found that, like, that energy is kind of like a superpower. It just needs to be focused. It needs to be focused into. Into a project. Um, um, whether it's, like, creatively or just something that I'm really, really passionate about.

All right, well, let the listeners know about that book, where to get it, what they can expect when they read it. I know you kind of touched on it earlier, but let them know.

Yeah, yeah. So the book is called 2012 a bicycle odyssey. Um, it is. You can go to my website, rise. Phoenix.org. dot. Rise stands for revolution inspired. Self evolution is just. That's just a pretentious way of, uh, you know, saying that if you want to change your world, you got to change your internal world. Um, you could also access to the rise frequency, uh, podcast channel on there. I think what you can expect from the book, if you like, uh, if you're into pop culture, um, there's a lot of it in there. There's a lot of, like, I'm a big nerd, and I put a lot of myself into this. I'm a big fan of mythology and Joseph Campbell. And so I framed the chapter outline to Joseph Campbell's 17 step monomyth of the hero's journey. And I invite the reader to, um, picture themselves as the hero of their own story and how they can navigate their life, ah, step by step on the hero's journey, or maybe even process, ah, an experience that they already had and see, uh, where that puts them in the monomyth. Um, yeah, it was, as much as therapy changed my life, that bike ride really changed my life, and it gave, uh, me a profound sense of confidence. Um, and just knowing that if I put my mind to something that I can accomplish, I can accomplish a lot, because that tested me. That bike ride tested me mentally, physically and emotionally. We spoke, uh, with so many people across the country who lost loved ones to suicide. Um, and it came to, you know, those, those conversations were so intense and so taxing emotionally that the escape was actually riding your bike, even if that means riding through the south in July and August, you know, when it's like 102 degrees out and like 90% humidity.

Well, tell us about any upcoming projects that you're working on that the listeners need to be aware of.

Uh, I would just, you know, check out the podcast. Right now I am starting another book. I want to do a follow up to 2012 a bicycle odyssey that is more of like, instead of like a memoir of like what I did and how I did it. More of a philosophy. There is some of the philosophy in the book, but I want to write more of like a philosophy book, um, that people, uh, could probably use to navigate their mental health. Um, and a lot of it has to do with self, uh, awareness. Uh, but I'm also writing a fictional book right now. Um, I was in film school and I wrote a lot of outlines for screenplays. And I just decided since I, like, I found a love for writing, that I wanted to. I'm working on a, um, series of short, uh, stories, an anthology of short stories that is more like a modern day science fiction, um, which is, I feel like this book, 2012 bicycle odyssey, is the book that I needed to write. And now I'm working on a book that I really, really, really want to write. So, um, I don't know if that makes sense. But yeah, through our website, you, uh, can click on a link or you just go to Amazon on and you type in 2012 a bicycle odyssey book and it should show up. And I hope people enjoy it. I hope people get something out. At the very least, I hope they find it entertaining. At the most. I hope that they're, um, inspired to, uh, go on a journey themselves. Um, and you don't have to quit your job and ride your bicycle 7000 miles to go on a journey. Um, there is, there is great mystery, even in the mundane. You just have to allow, uh, yourself to shift your perspective to see the infinite and the universal, uh, in just like the ordinary. Um, every single day is. Uh, I try to treat as best I can as a, uh, possibility to learning more about the mystery.

Okay, close us out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about that you would like to touch on or just any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

Hey, I just, I just think, uh, self awareness is the only game in town. Uh, you know, have whatever, you know, believe whatever political belief you need to have. Believe in whatever religion that you need. But at the end of the day, you're stuck with yourself, uh, from cradle to grave. I can't give you answers for what happens after we pass on our mortal coil, but, um, you know, get to know who you are and why you do the things that you do. And, uh, hopefully that will give you a little bit more comfort and confidence in this world.

While you're here, go at your website one more time. Rise phoenix.org dot Rise phoenix.org ladies and gentlemen, please be sure to check it out. Check out the book, the podcast follow rate review share this episode to as many people as possible. Also, be sure to jump on your favorite podcast app. Hit us with a follow leave us a review. If you have any guests or suggestion topics, Curtis Jackson, 1978 t.net is the place to send them. Thank you for listening and supporting the show. And Thomas, thank you for joining us and sharing your story.

Thank you for having me.

For more information on the Living the Dream podcast, visit www.djcurvefall.com. until next time, stay focused on living the dream.

Dream.