Filmmaker Martin Scorsese Tribute (with Pop Culture Five)

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information. What are the essentials to you? What makes cinema? I think what makes cinema to me, I think ultimately it's something that for some reason stays with you so that a few years later you can watch it again or ten years later you watch it again and it's different.

[00:00:30] In other words, there's more to learn about yourself or about life. That's interesting. At first you may find that I'm affected by this film, the camera work is amazing, the actors are terrific, great editing and that sort of thing. But after a certain amount of time, after you get enough of that, like for example, shoot the piano player, Truffaut, I thought that was the best. But after a while I realize it's Jules and Jim.

[00:00:57] It's got more depth, you can watch it repeatedly and you can watch it different times in your life. And the film's the same, you change. Life and Death of Colonel Blint. Pretty much the films of Hitchcock in terms of like, as I say, Psycho for example. I was there the third night, midnight show at the DeMille Theater. Really? Midnight show? Yeah. It was a circus. Talk about a theme ride. A theme ride. This place was wild. The place was going crazy. Over the years, I've watched the film over and over and I'm really obsessed with it.

[00:01:26] But it's not the shower scene. It's not killing a Martin Baltson. It's the scenes with the actors and how he's framed them and how they play off each other. And it's the mood and tone of the picture, along with the music, of course. And it's the framing, the compositions, which have almost a kind of an aesthetic quality, freaky kind of quality to it.

[00:01:51] And so, in a way, I've enjoyed that picture and I still do because of the things that it's not famous for. You know? You know, because you're finding something else than what it was famous for.

[00:02:47] We had discussed multiple times over email and I was just like, yeah, Jeremy and Thomas, they're killing it with all the actors, all the TV shows, all the movies, all the deep cuts. And how they've rediscovered the so-called pop culture. So, I said, hey, we've got to do some fun crossover episode. That's awesome, man. Yeah, for sure. Jeremy also hosts Bigger Than The Game. Yeah. Cohort, Jose.

[00:03:17] So, sports fans, check it out. Absolutely, absolutely. So, would you say podcasts made you guys rediscover your voice? Or were you already comfortable with that? And then you just wanted to take it to the next level. You're just like, we've got to do a show. We love talking so much about this. We might as well record these chats. Yeah. I know for me, I have a background in radio. So, it had been before I started podcasting.

[00:03:47] It had been, I don't know, 14, 15 years since I was on the radio. So, from like 99 to 2007, I did every job you can imagine in radio, including on the air. I hosted talk shows, sports talk shows. I was an FM pop music DJ. I did all sorts of sports updates during like the Jim Rome show during the day. I did local sports updates at our affiliate in Albuquerque.

[00:04:13] So, I had the radio bug just in my blood and it never leaves you. So, getting a chance to do podcasting and scratch that broadcasting itch was just huge. And then I came in contact with Deremy, found the perfect partner to create a new show with. So, yeah, this couldn't have gone any better. I think from like conception to 70 shows in pretty much, like this whole partnership couldn't have gone better. And I agree.

[00:04:40] And I haven't, I did radio for a couple years. I didn't do it as long as Thomas. But I like how you said that. I think it did help me rediscover doing podcasts because Thomas is right. Like growing up, just listening to, I mean, he's a crazy fool now on first take. But Mike and the Mad Dog, so Mad Dog Russo, I used to always listen to him growing up. And I always loved it. And then it just went years without doing it.

[00:05:09] And the bug came back. It just did. And also, like, you know, you have like a day job and it's like, oh, boy. And it's like you need something that great outlet. So, from starting that show early 2020 with Jose and then definitely, like Thomas said, this couldn't have gone any better, this partnership with him. It's something, like, it does, it brings me relief when the days are tough or when family stuff's going on. Like, it's that outlet.

[00:05:38] Like, I get lost in it. Like, and it's good to just, because this is honestly what Thomas and I talk about, what we're going to talk about tonight. I would be researching and looking this stuff up anyway, like, without a podcast. So, might as well do a podcast to connect with people. Sure. So, it was kind of going to be a quick kind of multi-batch. This is like, yeah, we could do an overview of Scorsese. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:04] And like many filmmakers, they all kind of have their unofficial themed trilogy or quadrilogy, if you will. You guys have mentioned Scorsese multiple times. And I figured, you know, as a brief overview, it's interesting how this man has just stayed relevant doing everything from Rolling Stone concert movies to documentaries to being the gangster movie hollick to the period piece guy.

[00:06:28] And it's just funny how both he and Spielberg are like one of the few names who the studios will not dare to get in their way. Even if they lose money, why do you think they just fear them? Is it really just that rare moment of we can't mess with perfection or is it something more? Well, I think they're one of maybe a handful of directors who just saying, you know, I know for me, a lot of my friends who are cinephiles like Spielberg and Scorsese.

[00:06:57] I would say Tarantino has that, too. When you just say there's a new Scorsese movie coming out, I don't people don't need to know the plot. They don't know who's in it. They're just interested. Oh, he's working on something. Same with Spielberg. And I think they have that pool that like a lot of like actors used to have. And I think in today's world, a lot of actors like new actors don't have that kind of one name recognition. Like we still have Denzel or Tom Cruise, but that's going away.

[00:07:23] OK, so I think that's a lot of like power when you can just say, oh, there's a new Scorsese movie coming out. And people are like, oh, really? And we don't know the plot. We don't know who's in it. We don't know anything yet. We just want to go and see it. And I think that's why studios give them that. A, number one, they earned it. But also people are going to go see that they can have a bunch of no name actors. But it's like this is a Scorsese. This is a Spielberg. I'm going to go see this. Unmistakable. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:07:52] The studios see dollars, too. I mean, that's the bottom line. And so Scorsese, Spielberg, those are the two big ones that they know that they're going to bring viewers and dollars to the studio. So why would you want to go alienate the architect of these movies that's going to bring in viewers, bring in dollars, bring in credibility? Right. Because these guys have credibility. So I think, like, gosh, like Scorsese, Spielberg in unique positions.

[00:08:21] The studio just doesn't mess with them. Probably for good reason. They're smart. Sometimes they're smart not to mess with guys like that. What did your parents think when you told them, I want to be a director? Well, I heard them one night. I heard my mother whisper to my father saying, I think he's crazy. I think there's something wrong with him. I guess she was right. What was your first job on set? I was the assistant cameraman to a terrific cinematographer named Baird Bryant. I was at NYU at the time.

[00:08:47] Somehow through some friends, I got to meet this guy who was going to make his first short film, a guy named John Albertson, who later on became the terrific director, did Rocky. And so it was a film called Smile or Smiles. So I was very excited. It was shooting in the summer. It was really important to me because it was shooting in 35 millimeter. And we had just been introduced to 16 millimeter at school.

[00:09:10] And so for me to be around an Araflex, a 35 Ari, it was amazing. The only problem was I was terrible. Why were you terrible? I can't judge focus. I couldn't, you know, and he was teaching me how to keep the focus. I could not judge distance. You know, I don't do that. Did you ever crack it? No. No, I learned never to do an assistant cameraman again. Was there one lesson you took from set? Basically, no matter what you have to do on a set, you should do it.

[00:09:40] They were shooting on the subway or something. And I remember having to help carry the generator up the steps with two or three other guys. You know, it was 21 or 22. I wasn't very athletic, but I carried that, helped carry that generator. Was it your first time seeing your name in the credits? Oh, to see my name on that? Oh, my God, yes. Yeah, it was a major treat. But then I wound up working, holding lights for Al and Dave Maisels. And they needed some lights. And I would have to see him. It was interesting, Al Maisel.

[00:10:10] And his brother did the sound. But I would have to see Al directing himself as to where the viewer should be focusing. And I'd have to anticipate where he was going to move that lens. And that was a learning experience. What were some of your other early jobs? Yeah, I was on the CBS News. I learned it was my first real job, I think. To be there at a certain time, to work certain hours and that sort of thing and make a good salary. 16-millimeter footage would come in.

[00:10:40] And I'd put it together somehow with the main editors and the producers of the shows. And at the end of six or seven weeks, I had to leave. The head of the editing department there, an older man, said to me, you know, we'll give you a job here if you want to stay. I said, no, no, I really want to go off and make feature films. Where did that sense of purpose come from? I don't think there was any choice. I was driven by it. To tell stories with pictures, first to learn how to get the pictures. Then to learn how to edit them.

[00:11:09] Or I kind of knew how to edit them, but how to do it, you know. And then ultimately tell these stories that I knew about over the years. But that wound up 10 years later in Mean Streets. What would be your advice to your younger self? To my younger self, it would have been good if I had read more. My parents were working in the garment district. They didn't read books. But I had to go find them in the library and that sort of thing.

[00:11:38] And I had to learn how to read, meaning if a book is 300 pages, I had to learn to live with that 300 pages and not get bored and put it away. And so I wish I would have read a little more when I was about 15 or 16. It developed over the years, but that's a whole world that opened up to me. And also the pool.

[00:12:00] So like if you get, you know, a Scorsese movie and you get Leo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, and they're doing it because they love working with Marty and all these other big name actors and actresses. And you want to piss off Marty Scorsese and then he leaves. They're all going with them. And then some other studios going to be like, oh, we'll take this. And they're going to get that, like Thomas said, those big dollars.

[00:12:23] So it's like you're only you don't want to just piss off him because you're going to piss off some of the biggest actors and actresses in Hollywood. And they're there because they want to work with Marty. They're not there because of your studio. So it's like it's a whole ripple effect if you do do that. Bingo. Plus, he's he respects all kinds of films and he makes all kinds of films.

[00:12:45] So it's just like, yeah, he's very much an editing kind of guy as much as he is, you know, recreate a historical period piece. You know, it's interesting how it's going. Yeah. Since like the mid 2000s, especially, he seems like he's dabbling more and more into different types of things, probably starting with like the Aviator. Yeah. Because you had a lot of gangster movies.

[00:13:11] You're like Goodfellas Casino, even like Gangs of New York was like a period piece gangster movie. But yeah, it's starting like with the Aviator. It seemed like he's been trying to do different types of things like the Aviator, like a historical biopic. Like essentially you had Shutter Island, which was like to me, like the most like that was the most like Christopher Nolan movie without being a Christopher Nolan movie. Yeah.

[00:13:41] That really seems like Nolan movie. But but I like that. Rider of Mystic River. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like the like the crazy plot twist. You see the opening and you're like he is recreating a Bogart, you know, detective piece right here on this very boat with Ruffalo's speech at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. It starts with like a Bogart thing and then it turns into like this this twist that I'm not sure I'll spoil. I guess I don't know. It came out 15 years ago.

[00:14:06] I mean, Spielberg loves all kinds of movies and Spielberg and Lucas gets criticism for aping a lot of the 30s noir dialogue. And it's interesting how Scorsese is in that he's part of the film brat cycle. And he and Coppola like just kind of. Recreating the moment. Or a period moment and then kind of having the actresses slowly vanish into the role and they're like that is like that they're in love with the camera. It's like the camera's got to be as big a star. Yeah.

[00:14:36] Yeah. Yeah. It. Uh, it. I have one of the most divisive movies I think we talked about briefly on the show. Well, we didn't do an episode on it, but like when we briefly mentioned Scorsese, our cohort, James loves the king of comedy. And a lot of the rest of us were like, oh, really? I'm curious. So why didn't you guys like the king of comedy? Oh, James loves it. Yeah. And for me, it was like I get the satire.

[00:15:06] It's just so in your face. It's just I just don't stick with it. But there's like heavy, like heavy handed satire. I think it knows what it wants to be. It just doesn't really deliver the reward you want from a satire where you're like, oh, that's making me think. Uh, but I, I, I, but that it was so funny. Like then we talked about New York, New York and James is like, yeah, I didn't get the charisma in that. It's like, oh, really? I thought that was a fun send up of a Scorsese's answer to musicals he grew up with.

[00:15:35] But it's funny how he's kind of the homage guy. And anytime he's experimented, uh, it's interesting how a fan will come out of the woodwork saying, hey, watch this. If you're a big, big Scorsese head versus if you're just getting started, you know? Yeah. Yeah. He has those ones like silence and Hugo and coon doing like, like that just kind of slipped through the cracks. Like you got to be a real Scorsese fan to really do.

[00:16:02] I, I, on rare occasions, I would meet people who didn't like the Cape Fear remake. I'm like, really? I don't even consider that a remake. That's like, you know, I, I've kind of found it interesting that in these recent years, he's kind of been more vocal about what he likes and doesn't like. Yeah. Um, and it kind of, in some ways I get it. And in some ways it surprises me. Like, I know, like he doesn't dig Woody Allen.

[00:16:29] Well, like he would say Woody Allen's New York is so different than the way I see New York. And I was like, that is interesting. Like Woody Allen, when you watch his movies, New York is like this. They did the collab together. Yeah. But like Woody Allen's New York and his movies is like this beautiful character. So artistic. And then Marty's getting down and dirty. But I think what got me was him coming out saying that he doesn't like the Sopranos because he's like, it's in New Jersey. It's in like the boondocks. That's not the mob that I know.

[00:16:58] So I didn't really like it. And I'm like, that's interesting. I'm like, I get that it's Jersey and not New York, but still like, are we the greatest show ever? Like Marty wasn't digging it. That's wild. He actually watched an R-rated cartoon. I mean, what's next thing? South Park's not accurate. But yeah, I mean, boondocks is this. I'm sorry. I love that show because like just it's kind of was just all the different voices you kind of wanted to hear validated.

[00:17:28] And then just kind of like South Park, just using the R-rated comedy to deliver that message. It's but I mean, I am kind of tired of clickbait articles, putting him and Jane Compion as or Coppola as. Oh, my God. By the way, they don't like superhero movies. It's like if Spielberg or Tom Hanks said that, would anyone care? I mean, yeah, I think they just want they just want to not maybe not like Scorsese to begin with or they have a problem with like the material.

[00:17:57] I hate superhero movies. Yeah, right. I think it confirms like biases that they might have for Scorsese. They might not like gangster movies or might not like because a lot of Scorsese's movies depict like bad people and specifically bad men. True. Unlikable bad men. And if you're a part of a demographic where that just turns you off completely, then you're just not going to like Scorsese.

[00:18:23] So if he says something about superhero movies, then then you just like latch on to it and hate it. But I appreciate Scorsese and his depiction of like bad people because. He doesn't he doesn't talk to he like trust me as an audience member to decide if I think this person's bad or not. I don't I'm not going to rely on a director to say, oh, what he's doing on screen is bad. But like a lot of a lot of viewers nowadays like to be spoon fed.

[00:18:53] We don't have to look at the six o'clock news to determine our social political beliefs. Yeah, yeah. We need our director to say what I'm depicting on screen is is not good instead of just depicting it and letting us decide. So nowadays, somebody like Scorsese who does that turns people off, I think, more and more over the years. I guess that might be one of many reasons. Sometimes, I mean, we don't have to agree with the Oscars.

[00:19:18] We don't have to agree with the Golden Globes, but it's just funny how people feel, I guess, like they're going to anger someone if they say I didn't care for that movie that got all those accolades. It's like, well, you didn't like it. But what's the problem? You're only a jerk if you're attacking people who like or don't like something. So that's what art's supposed to do. Right. Like, you know, it's it's something to it, whether it's like.

[00:19:42] The podcast we do or whatever, like if everyone likes it or everyone agrees, then it's like we're probably not doing it right. Like, yeah, we're not supposed to get emotion, you know, supposed to get something. So and I do agree. Thomas makes a great point. Like we do want to be I think we just want that happy ending and we want it to be spoon fed to us as an audience a lot. And that's not the job of a director is to depict this and the audience interprets it.

[00:20:11] The audience gets it. And a lot of times these movies maybe, hey, people don't know this and it's showing you a world that you don't know. And guess what? Either. Hey, you have a little more empathy. Like, I don't know how I would be if I was in that situation where you're saying, thank goodness, I'm not like them. Right. So that's what like these films are supposed to do. Yeah. Look at his filmography and show me like especially his top films and show me the movie that doesn't depict bad men doing bad things.

[00:20:42] I'm going down on the like maybe Alice doesn't live here anymore, but there's a bad there's bad man in that movie. Yeah. That's what Alice is. Having to get her hands dirty just to finally get rid of her abusive boyfriend. And how funny how that inspired a sitcom. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So he's had that cachet since the 70s. One of his movies inspired a sitcom, which then led to like a flow, which then so. So one of his movies is like like TV. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:21:13] Vinyl. When I assumed as I saw his name, Scorsese HBO production, I was like, this totally makes sense. He loves music. So he wants to talk about the vice field 70s and the shadiness producers do and how there's good or bad. Everybody's having to get their hands dirty just to get a deal made is like, yeah, that was a kind of shady world back then. You know, it's just. And well, go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to say, I think the talk about the period pieces.

[00:21:42] I know he was a part of the recent Beatles 64 documentary that came on Disney Plus. And I think one of the big pleasant surprises is when he did. I feel like that was like late 2000s, mid 2000s. The George Harrison documentary that was on HBO. Oh, wow. That really made me fall in love with George. I knew the Beatles. I knew George Harrison, but he did this big, massive two parter on George Harrison.

[00:22:08] And that really made me and that showed like how much he loves music, like you said. And didn't think the Dylan documentary and the Stones doc. So like he really loves. I kind of like this whole like documentary Scorsese like vibe. I mean, he's used a documentary style with so many of his movies. So I think that's why I was a natural fit. You know? Yeah. Yeah. You're right. A lot of his movies do feel like a documentary style. Like the King of Comedy feels like a documentary about Rupert Pupkin. And it really, it really, really does.

[00:22:37] I urge anybody if they haven't seen the last Waltz, especially the documentary about the band, it's a concert film documentary, whatever you want to call it. It's amazing. Even if you're not a fan. Thanks a lot. And I was like, whoa, this is detailed. So detailed. Even if you're not a fan of the group, I think it's worth a watch. Even if you've never heard of them. Yeah. Even if you've never heard of them. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you've heard their music and whatnot. You've heard of the guests that appear. Dylan, Clapton. So many people featured.

[00:23:07] Dr. John. And I once read an awesome article on how many movies and shows are inspired by Sidney LeMay, who many will know from Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon, 12 Angry Men fame. And you see it in everything from The Wire to Breaking Bad, you know, Difficult Men, Hard Times, and even The Sopranos. But I feel like that's more of a Scorsese-inspired show.

[00:23:31] Like, you know, you took all these semi-knowns and unknowns and had them flesh out all this dark humor. And I think that's what many people take away from his stuff. If they're not imitating Tarantino, if they're not aping William Friedkin's shocking style, if it's not the atmosphere of a Michael Mann, you know, thriller, it's kind of a Scorsese

[00:23:53] gambit where they're just showing a bizarre or violent tyrant and just how all the consequences are going to explode in everybody's faces. And I'm surprised he hasn't done as many heist movies. Yeah, that's a good point. I think he has been for people who are like wannabe filmmakers. It's now we're going into like, I don't know, a second generation of people who that's their guy. They look up to him.

[00:24:21] And like, you know, even though I think Spielberg, I would probably put as like my number one goat director. But like, I think some people look at what he does, these blockbusters or these fantasy moves. That's not for them. It's easy for them to pick on someone just because you're over 20 million. It's like, well, that's fine as long as it pays off. You know, there's nothing worse when you see a four hour epic and you're already trying to trim away the fat.

[00:24:48] You're just like, feeling very bloated despite all the talent here, you know. But, you know, everybody I talked to when I was growing up who wanted to get in the film, Scorsese was the guy like they he's like they're number one. And I feel that way to this day. Every cinephile you talk to, he's number one for. It's been an hour. It's under S. Under S.

[00:25:23] How could I have done this? I did a commercial for American Express where I'm complaining about what I shot on a kid's birthday party. That is, that's what I do. My AD saw me last week. He said, I love the commercial. He said, it's like being back at the monitor. What have I done? I've lost the narrative thread. Doesn't make any sense. Look at it. There's no life to it at all. Oh, my nephew. Say cheese. Good direction, Marty. Here, this one, interesting. It's far too nostalgic. What do you think? It's pretty.

[00:25:55] Composition is forced. Lighting is bad. Angle is off. Too literal. Too violent. Too metaphorical. Too dark. Here, we have the protagonist, but where's the antagonist? Where's the drama? Oh. Oh. Unavoidable. Got to reshoot. Yeah, Timmy. That's your Uncle Marty. How'd you like to turn five again? I mean, it was very easy to do because basically, you gotta, otherwise, you know, it's just,

[00:26:25] God, you take myself too, the word is seriously, I guess. But you know what? The damn thing is you gotta be serious about making a picture. He's number one. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Cam, you were talking about influence and it's a cliche now, especially with things like Breaking Bad and Total Soprano, like the anti-heroes. Yeah. Right? Like, but he, I mean, he started exploring anti-heroes in the early 70s. I mean, you could say Mean Streets. There was kind of anti-heroes there. Yes. For sure, Taxi Driver.

[00:26:55] For sure, Travis Bickle was an anti-hero. Absolutely. So he started really exploring anti-heroes. And then, like, I think it really gained steam 20 years later. Back and forth. Yeah. He got on the ground floor, like he's just so interested in, like, why are bad people bad? And maybe there's more to learn from them than just, like, saying just they're bad. Maybe there's not. Maybe there's just bad people. But let's explore this a little further.

[00:27:21] So he, like, really delved into the anti-hero thing before it was, like, popular in mainstream pop culture. Absolutely. I remember him even bringing up, like, what were his favorite movies. And it's like, all of them were, like, Orson Welles, Elliot Kazan. Yeah. Um, The Changeling by Peter Maddock. I think he said The Exorcist another time. He's all into the just. I'm sure some Fritz Lang had to be on his list. He's all into just movies that make him jump out of his seat.

[00:27:51] You know? Absolutely. When I saw him inside the actor's studio years ago, it was one of those, like, he. He knew he was unusual with how drawn to film he was and how much he consumed of it. He's like, I guess I'm a filmmaker. You know? Mm-hmm. It's been cool seeing him embrace social media and seeing his daughter will post something. Yeah. I have no doubt she's going to be a filmmaker. You know? Yeah. Well, I just got to say, you referenced Inside the Actor's Studio.

[00:28:20] And man, RIP James Lipton. Still miss him. Yes. And that show influenced me in so many ways and helped me become, quote unquote, a cinephile and love movies and love the process. Yes. How to do a clip show. How to do. Just. How you evolve. Just amazing. And his episode was one of the better episodes. I think Spielberg had a great episode, too, honestly. But his was one of the better ones. He's like, Laura Linney's in the audience. What? You know? Yeah.

[00:28:49] He starts freaking out because some of his buddies are in the studio. Oh, man. But that's just it. Like, not every show can do that kind of. Because it wasn't meant to spill your guts, but it was also meant to give some advice for the few that would actually graduate and make it big. And I think that's just it. Like, as being part of the film geeks, Lucas, you know, Kasten, Schrader, De Palma, all those

[00:29:15] guys, he basically he already knew his style, how he wanted everything. And he did use Lucas's ex-wife, Mary, a bunch, especially on Taxi Driver and some of his other late 70s stuff. So I think this is it. Like, and you see stories about how he approached the cinematography on, like, Goodfellas. Like, that it's not a tracking. The rack focus shot where everything is still there, but everything looks like it's fading

[00:29:45] beyond you without actually moving in the background for that diner scene. Like, again, like, he trusted his cinematographer's instinct. He's all about making the best of every collaboration. I think that's what I've always drawn from his stuff. Yeah, all of this, all of what you're mentioning, and it just speaks to confidence. And I think with directors, but really like most creatives, but especially directors, since this is their basically their vision.

[00:30:15] So in some cases, it's not totally there. There's kind of like hired guns. Yes. Scorsese's case, it's usually his vision. And it takes somebody who's really confident in their vision and how to execute it to be great. And that's the thing when you talk about Scorsese, Coppola, Spielberg, Tarantino, the Coen brothers. I think the main thread is they make different movies, but they're all confident about their And he knows how to handle all these different personas, you know? Right.

[00:30:44] De Niro has been known to storm offsets. People are goofing off and not taking it seriously. Pacino, he reigns in. It's hysterical when I remember hearing a story on how Cameron Diaz was getting into character as her pickpocket for Gangsta New York and would actually steal some stuff. And he politely said, stop here. Yeah. Don't go that method. Don't go that far.

[00:31:08] And, you know, and I don't I mean, there's a reason Joe Pesci is just remembered for those movies particular because he knew how to use his method of improv and wise guy attitude versus just, you know, let him improv all day until they run out of film. It's it's interesting how some people just know how to just do the different just kind of tidy up stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:33] Well, I I heard something actually wasn't too long ago about his leadership style because a director and we're all sports fans here. So like directors like a head coach, like you're like that CEO, like a head coach NFL team, like you're like a CEO and directors like that. And one thing I heard about him recently was he never tell, especially like the people he's working with, like the actors and actresses, like when they come up to him with an idea, he

[00:32:02] doesn't mean that he's going to do what they say, but he doesn't want to stifle that creative flow. Yeah, he doesn't because then he doesn't want someone that didn't feel stifled where they are going to bring their ideas to him or suggest something. He never says duly noted. He never says, I'll think about it. He's like, yeah, let's try that. Yeah. Yeah. He lets them. And I think that's huge. And I remember listening to that and being like, that's interesting, especially like you said earlier, Thomas, with dealing with creatives.

[00:32:31] You want creative people to flow. It doesn't mean you're always going to go with it. It doesn't mean it's always the right idea, but that's the worst thing you could do is make someone feel stifled. Blow the whistle and be like, let's hit the locker room. I'm like, wait, wait, wait. We just got out here to practice. Yeah. Or they feel like, you know, oh, I can't talk to him or her. Like I don't feel comfortable giving. Right. So I was like, that's interesting because I'm like, I hadn't really heard.

[00:32:56] I mean, you kind of hate to assume, but you assume like all these people still want to work with him. And I don't, you don't really hear stories of him being a monster, but it's like, oh, you get that. I got to hear like his leadership style and how it works. And that's important. He took care of enough of his crew to where like cinematographers and production managers would go the extra mile to make sure he had what he needed. It's even more awesome how, you know, De Niro helped him kick his drug habit because

[00:33:25] scores it like any addict, you know, it's eating you up, but you don't know when to quit. And, you know, De Niro had almost died on Raging Bull, you know, losing all that weight, starving himself. And it's just like, you know, because I forget when Raging Bull is set. Is Raging Bull set in the 20s? It's set in the 40s, 40s, I think. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Post Great Depression.

[00:33:51] And I feel like De Niro's movies that he's done, especially The Good Shepherd and A Bronx Tale are the most Scorsese he gets as a filmmaker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had to have taken inspiration to take some tips from Scorsese, right? I'm going to make use of all two and a half to three hours of my time. And then I'm going to show how these people either betray their ethics or go downhill. Because of their profession.

[00:34:21] And I think that's the other thing, too. Like, Paul Schrader, you know, he's another one who has had politically incorrect language because he is a wild case. But he loves doing emotional visual depictions of people questioning everything from their upbringing to their religion to just other stuff that, you know, gives them anxiety. And I think that's why he and Scorsese used each other so well on not only that, but also bringing out the dead.

[00:34:52] I see people complain about Nolan, how he handles female dialogue as well as Scorsese. But I think Scorsese at least has a strong female character. I think those are fair complaints with both of them, you know, like they aren't perfect and they have their perspectives, you know, like they can only really write about what they've experienced and what they've seen. I think Scorsese a little bit better about writing for women. I agree with that.

[00:35:22] Christopher Nolan seems kind of struggles. No one complains about. They're like, yeah, they're there. Same thing with Spelberg. Yep, they're there. Yeah, it's hard to write. And I guess down the road, he'd be down to work with a female, you know, screenwriter as well. It's just one of those. I guess because he does everything else so well, it's just a somewhat overlooked flaw, even though you'd like to see it a little better. But I mean, I thought he did a decent job. Like, I think Lily Gladstone got a lot of attention. Yes.

[00:35:52] For Killers of the Flower Moon, well-deserved. I mean, she didn't get a ton of like, I guess if you're looking at quantity, she didn't get a ton. But I mean, she spent a lot of that movie just as she did in real life, like just bedridden and sick and she was poisoned and all of that. Her character, Molly Burkhart. So I think that was a lot of the reason. But I mean, it seemed like Lily Gladstone was able to kind of break through and shine in that, which isn't always the case.

[00:36:20] Like looking at Scorsese's filmography. But that did strike me in Killers of the Flower Moon. It was like, OK, like there was actually like a woman in his in his movie that had like a really nice presence about her. Yeah. And everyday quality. Mm hmm. And I mean, Jessica Lange is very powerful in Cape Fear where he's. Yes. That show. Hey, you know, she she knows something's going on with her lawyer husband. Yeah. He was stalking him.

[00:36:49] Jeremy, what's the one that for you that that you like more than than maybe other people might? Probably with him, with Marty, I would say. I. I like the aviator more than a lot of people. That's one of my my friend Tony's favorite movies. Yeah, I actually liked it. And I like Caprio in it. I'll give you that. Yeah. And I thought it was just a good depiction of someone who is maybe a little biased.

[00:37:18] I think Howard Hughes is just very fascinating in all of it, like how brilliant he was and his downfall and what was going on with him. So a lot of people didn't like I really liked that movie. So that's one that I can say I liked by him that a lot of people didn't. You guys have both kind of referenced who's that knocking on the door. And I think about Roger Ebert. After seeing that, wrote a review and said this young director is going to be the greatest director of all time.

[00:37:47] And I'm like, man, that's like in the 84 draft, like the Bulls took this guy, Jordan. He's going to be the greatest player of all. I'm like, you could live off that review. Dude, like you called Scorsese like anybody. I'm like that right there is like that's pretty cool. Like I know Ebert's gotten them wrong, too. Like everyone does. But I'm like, man, that's that's pretty baller. You don't have to like usual suspects, but calling it boring and not making sense. What? And I look at Siskel. He does.

[00:38:17] He didn't like Sides of the Lambs. And I'm like, really? I'm like, you don't have to love it. But he thinks it's like a bad movie. He thought it was. And I'm like, yeah, Sides of the Lambs. I'm like, I don't know about that. Yeah, there's a lot of thrillers where it's funny is like now I think a lot of stuff either gets under our skin in a good way or bad way.

[00:38:37] And it is interesting seeing which thrillers took off right away versus which ones were HBO or video store favorites that caught on over time. And but yeah, there's not knocking on my door has just kinetic editing. It's just two unusual, you know, quirky people falling in love. It's just those early. I think that's it.

[00:39:03] Before he became entranced and enthralled by Gangster City, he was all about let me show unusual people living in a slum, living in despair. And they find the unusual person and he just knows how to use montages versus now when you see a music video guy doing it, it's just kind of just a style not contributing necessarily to the substance. We'll return after these messages.

[00:39:33] If you like small town mystery, crazy news and wild history, then the Florida Men on Florida Man podcast is for you. Each week, Josh Mills and Wayne McCarty bring you the absolute best Florida has to offer. So if you're looking for a show that's safe for the family, but funny enough to help you escape everyday life, then listen to the Florida Men on Florida Man podcast. That's Florida Men plural on Florida Man podcast. Hey, it's Brent Pope, the host of Brent Fist with Brent Pope.

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