Cult Westerns & Small Screen Cowboy Icons (with Gil Palmer!)

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[00:00:10] It's a bird. It's a plane. It's a ranch head and his posse. I figured it was time to just finally just talk about something that is like kind of more memory based, but also just what makes a Western show just dynamic.

[00:01:11] Well, I gotta tell you, I'm surprised by going down the list. I mean, there's all the Westerns that I know about, but there were so many more I didn't know about. It blows my mind too when you realize what critics qualify as a Neo-Western, and for those who don't know, Neo meaning New Age, New Wave, kind of like Neo-Noir, and then they're calling, you know, stuff like Breaking Bad and the Mandalorian Neo-Westerns and you're like, ohhhh. Oh, yeah.

[00:01:40] But, you know, it's just that kind of like Star Trek, just that coding stuff to see at times because all you see at first is just, you know, just cartels and pirates, you know, at war with each other. It's like, oh, okay, but just the shots alone is like they're basically cowboys versus outlaws. Yeah, especially, you know, in Arizona with all the kind of background they have. Yeah. New Mexico. Yep.

[00:02:11] California deserts too. Kudos to Heroes and Icon, Cable TV for still re-airing a bunch of these hit shows. Cozy and Git TV, which is owned by Sony, will air some of them that they own. And I had a bunch written down, but it's just, I think we've all been exposed to them at some point or another. It's just like, yeah, that was a cool show at one point, you know. Yeah.

[00:02:36] Oh, well, my tastes usually run towards the more, you know, like in the 90s they had, you know, I like the westerns that aren't quite westerns, you know, like Wild Wild West. Yeah. Or Adventures of Briscoe County Jr. Briscoe County is kind of the perfect jump off that leads to Richard Dean Anderson starring in Legend. Yep. I was going to bring that up if nobody else did. Nice. Yeah, I've been meaning to revisit it.

[00:03:03] I've always seen clips of it over the years and I'm just glad they finally gave it a remastered DVD treatment through Mill Creek. And they had to only replace one episode with an alternate music track. I'm not quite sure. I know John DeLancey was, you know, is in that. But I'm not sure. Was it Rick Berman or somebody else with Star Trek? No, you're right. Yeah, Michael Pillar and Berman were the creators. And it was just a side project.

[00:03:30] UPN wanted another show on the Paramount lot and they decided let's do that. But Lancey had, you know, prior to track, you know, been doing theater and a bunch of other guest spots. And he became great friends with Richard Dean Anderson on a MacGyver episode, which led to him being a recurring villain on Stargate later. But yeah, the 90s, there was no shortage. There was a show I wanted to see that had Robert Ulrich in it.

[00:03:58] That was a popular one on TNT. The Lazarus Man, that's what it was. I hadn't heard of that one. Yeah. And I'm not sure if you can find any episodes on YouTube. I know a bunch of pre-fame people like Mariska Hargitay guest starred on it. The Young Riders was another one in the late 80s, early 90s. I kind of remember that.

[00:04:26] Kind of almost like a takeoff of Young Guns in a way, wasn't it? It kind of was. Same kind of formula. A mild historical outline. Some of them are fun. It's fun seeing young, younger actors like Melissa Leo and Brett Cullen and Josh Brolin. But overall, I mean, they all kind of vary based on the premise and episode.

[00:04:52] But yeah, you can still see reruns of those from time to time on streaming and cable TV. And it's. Yeah. I mean, if anything, it's. It's always fun seeing Western stars appear on other Westerns because then it's kind of kind of like any other genre. It's just an acknowledgement of.

[00:05:15] Just why they're good at that starring in that kind of format is like, yeah, we're you're passing the torch on to the next guys who are. Starring in this.

[00:05:40] Starring in this. Becky's brought that up that, you know, because of me, she's noticing all these stars she would never have noticed before. All these people like Hal Needham. She noticed, you know, but there were so many. There was a lot of guest stars on there that went on to do bigger and better things.

[00:06:10] Believe it or not, Richard Boone even directed a bunch of episodes. Yeah. Yeah. Even Andrew V. Ledgelen directed 116. My God. Yeah. That was on my list. And. It is kind of interesting how he was. Almost kind of like Steve McQueen's. Oh, wanted dead or alive. Wanted dead or alive.

[00:06:37] Although while that guy was more of a fugitive antihero, you know, this guy. He's a good guy, but he'll. Get his hands dirty any way he can. Yeah. But yeah, I watched, you know, I hadn't ever watched an episode of wanted dead or alive before, but I caught one episode on Pluto today. Yeah. Believe it or not, that Rutger Dauer movie of the same name. Yeah. I have that movie. Longest time. I had no idea. It's like a loose sequel.

[00:07:07] It's like, what if that guy was his ancestor? Well, they kind of they kind of point to him being his ancestor in a way, I thought. But they do, but it's just it's still kind of an open premise. They don't really make it the main draw. But I thought. Yeah. Well, it's been a while since I've watched it, though. I'm going to have to watch it again. I want to see what's his name from Kiss. Gene Simmons. I want to see him blow up again. Yeah.

[00:07:37] Sure thing. But yeah, I tried to catch some episodes of shows I'd never checked out before. Wanted dead or alive. I watched a few other. I watched an episode of Gunsmoke. You know, that ran for 20 years. And I remember watching it when I was a kid because it lasted until 74. So I was seven years old when it was canceled. And, you know, it's just going back. I didn't realize then that it had a 20 year run. You know, and then. Yeah. Those.

[00:08:07] And Rawhide. I was never really big on. I know hot take, but like I get it, you know, like they boosted Clint Eastwood and a bunch of other names. And it was during that period where it was like if you didn't have books or comics, that's that's what you watched. You know? Yes. There is. And you had things like Big Valley. With Lee Majors. And although I haven't really watched an episode recently.

[00:08:36] I mean, I watched it when I was a kid. I don't know when it ended or if I was even watching reruns or whatever. But yeah, no, I recall that one being pretty cool. It was. Yeah. That I would often get it mixed up. I mean, it was basically the. The Waltons, but, you know, just more of a Western approach. Well, yeah. The Waltons. Yeah. I couldn't really tell you a whole lot about Big Valley, except that Lee Majors was in it myself. Yeah.

[00:09:05] And it was it was pleasant. It was. I would get it mixed up with the high. Chaparral. And yeah. And of course, Bonanza. Bonanza. Yep. There you go. But yeah, that was like, yeah, the prevalent time for them was the 50s and the 60s. Kind of tapered off for Westerns in the 70s. Yeah. And the 80s, I think. And then.

[00:09:32] Modern day stuff like Hell on Wheels or Justified and Longmire. I don't know. Justified is more of a modern Western then. Right. It's more action crime. And it just happens to have, you know, Western tropes. You know. But yeah, the high sap role I thought was cool. Just showing. Apache territory and other post-Civil War sentiments that are carried on into the TV version of the wild wild west.

[00:10:01] Not the wild wild west. How the west was won. Yeah. And, you know. And, you know. There's some good recurring roles on how the west was won because, like, you just. You see all kinds of stuff that just makes for a perfect pulp novels. One of the, you know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. You know. Shooting another road general. You know. Just being in cahoots with other Navajo that are invading their territory.

[00:10:30] And just great guest stars like Bruce Box. You know. Bruce Boxleckner was part of the cast. But, like, there was so many other ones where you're like, oh, that guy. You know. Yeah. And I was just going down. I'm surprised F Troops is on this list. But, yeah. It is a western, I guess. Yeah. It's pretty laid back. And it always would vary. You never knew if you were going to. Kind of like even Little House on the Prairie.

[00:10:54] You never knew if it was going to deal with their day on the ranch versus them actually going out and about. You know. Getting into trouble. Or trapped in the woods. You know. Yeah. But, yeah. I'm glad you started with it. Have Gun will travel. Because, I mean. You see Lawman. You see Cheyenne. You see the Restless Gun. I'm trying to remember. Is he more of a bounty hunter in that? Like Wanted Dead or Alive? Or is he more just. Yeah.

[00:11:23] Gun for Hire. Yeah. Yeah. He was a gun for hire. Basically. Yeah. Go after bounties. Yeah. But. But, yeah. I saw. I've only seen like four or five episodes. But I was surprised by how many stars I would see in it. Totally. Like. It's just so cool. Just. Seeing some of these just on repeat. And just. Going back to that time. It's like. See. That. When you didn't have all. What we have now. This is what you had. And.

[00:11:52] Some of them are still just. Very well done. Just. From a storytelling perspective. So it's just interesting. When you look at some of the writers. Like Gene L. Coon. And a bunch of others. And you're like. Oh. Well. But then they. Go on and work on a Mission Impossible. Type show. And you're like. See. But. It's easy to transition. Or Star Trek. Which was sold as a wagon train to the stars. Absolutely. And. It's so funny how. Iris Stephen Barr. When he was the head writer on Deep Space Nine. Had to keep convincing. Berman and companies. Like.

[00:12:22] We're no longer wagon train. In space anymore. We gotta. Leave the shit. We gotta have more obstacles. And. I do think wagon train. Is probably the most effective. Just because. It's the Twilight Zone. Anthology show. With Western stuff. I mean. And. When you look at that. It's even more fun. Just seeing how. Ron Barry started on Highway Patrol. Partially because he was a Highway Patrol man. Growing up. It's just funny. It's like.

[00:12:52] It's. Take away the sci-fi or horror elements. You can still have an effective anthology. What. Did. He worked on a Western too. Didn't he? Let's see. Roddenberry. Western. Show. Oh. He also did. Oh. He did work on Have Gun Will Travel. So. That's what I thought. Because I think I remember Becky telling me she saw his name on a few. A few episodes. That's cool. I mean.

[00:13:24] It helps that I think he also had some radio experience. I mean. Yeah. He's. He's always. Ron Barry is just one of those. Like the more you just find out about him. The more intrigued you get. Just because. Just wouldn't you think you've. Turned over every stone. There's still like. Well there was all that. Yeah. There was all that stuff from before Star Trek. That he did. Yeah. And I. I mean. I hope.

[00:13:52] Fans of his actually do go out and. Check him out. Instead of just being. Oh we're cool. You know. I just. I knew about this and that. I'm like. Yeah. But check it out. See what he did. Instead of just saying. I like him for just this. You know. What westerns did you probably see that were. Current day. I mean. Not current day westerns. But. Westerns that were actually on air when you were. You know. First discovering westerns. You know. I think I just. On occasion.

[00:14:21] Just would see part of. The man with no name. Movies. I. Took a while to get to him. But I. I would definitely see. I loved. A bunch of. Tom Selleck's. TNT. Western TV movies. He always had one. Like every five years. You know. Sam Elliott too. I've seen one or two of those. Oh and that. That's what was kind of the joy. Is like just seeing how. He's got. You know.

[00:14:51] Elliott and Selleck. You know. Who even star together in the Shadow Riders. And a bunch of other CBS miniseries. You know. Just they. They still had it. Like. Going on. Into the. Post 80s. They would do. Some more of it. In the 90s. And they just. The material agreed with them. I mean. Even Jesse Stone in a way is. Kind of a western hero. Even though it's more about just small town. Private eye. Trying to get his job back. As a police captain.

[00:15:21] For me. What I remembered. You know. Is like I said. Gunsmoke was on the air. It was ending when I turned seven. Another one was. Another one that was on the air. When I was a kid. One of the first ones I discovered. Was the alias Smith and Jones. Oh. That was. I'm not sure. I'm not sure how many. I think I might have only had one season. I'm not 100% sure. And freaking Murphy. Yep. Of mystery science theater fame. For a few of them.

[00:15:51] I missed that one. But that's a Glenn A. Larson production. So. We'll track that down. Nice. What is it about the duo. Do you think. Just stands out so well. I just. It was just something I remembered from. You know. Watching as a kid. And just. You know. Watching the. You know. The teamwork that they had between the two of them. I don't even remember details anymore. Because. I haven't. Really. It's been years and years and years. Since I've even seen an episode. I was still a kid.

[00:16:21] Last time I saw it. As a matter of fact. Well it was. And doctor shows. Yeah. It was oversaturated. Oversaturated with westerns. And they kind of died out. And trickled in here and there. But. Yeah. The 50s and the 60s. Were the heyday. 70s when there's. When they started to die out a little bit. Then we'd see. I'm trying to remember. You know. What did we see in the 80s. That was a western. Oh man. Yeah. That's kind of where.

[00:16:50] War stuff kind of took over. On both. CBS and HBO. 80s. Western shows. I know. There's got to be a few. I mean. You know. When was Dr. Oh. Some dog. Yeah. But that's later. Yeah. That was. Was that a series. Or a mini series. Mini series. But. Yeah. They continued into the 90s. And I recommend the next two. And then after that. They kind of got. But there was apparently one called. Paradise. And Outlaws. And of course.

[00:17:19] We mentioned Young Riders earlier. Father Murphy. Is one I've heard of. But I don't think I've seen. Yeah. That's one I saw on here. That I haven't seen before. I didn't know. They tried to remake Maverick. Yeah. In 81, 82. They tried to do Brett Maverick. Yep. One season. Cheers. And you know. The Maverick show was kind of an interesting one. Was that like. That was a half hour program. I think. Yeah. Way shorter compared to the other ones. Yeah. And they had two characters. That.

[00:17:49] You'd have one episode with one character. And the next one would be the other. Maverick. It'd be Brett and. Bart. Maverick. That's kind of. I think what. People remember about it the most. Was just how. It was the atypical formula. And then. Seeing him pass the torch to. Mel Gibson and the Richard Donner movie version. It was just so weird. But. Yeah. But that was the one thing I remember about them. Is like. Yeah. Every episode. One would be. James Garner. And then the other one would be the guy.

[00:18:17] I can't think of his name right now. That played his. Cousin. I think. I think it was Jack Kelly. I think. Jack Kelly. Yep. And. Just. Such an unusual gambling premise. It's like. Yeah. But that's kind of what drove people to it. I guess. Just because they can. They can relate to. Hey. This is just like. Vegas. But they're showing us what it would be like in the 1860s. It had a little bit of humor to it too.

[00:18:47] Yeah. It was light. It was kind of like Columbo. You know. You could watch it with your grandparents. Kids could watch it without. Anyone having to explain to them. You know. What are the women doing here? What are the other outlaws going to do? You know. It wasn't. It wasn't over the top. Yeah. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. I guess. I guess. Smith and Jones ran two years. Yeah. So. That was two years. Maverick ran for five years. And. So.

[00:19:17] I always get. Confused. Gunsmoke ran. 20 seasons. So then. Rawhide ran. For. Eight seasons. Okay. Very similar. How did. How long did Bonanza run? Oh yeah. Yeah. Well. Okay. So there you go. There's where I also. Get confused. Okay. Bonanza ran. For 14. Okay. So it was the second.

[00:19:47] Yeah. Yeah. Because yeah. It was Bonanza. And it was. Yeah. It was all right. I. I liked it way more. And. Obviously you got. The original Adama on there. Lorne Green. So yeah. That would have been another one. I would have watched. When I was a kid. Because my parents. Would have been watching it. Michael Landon. Years before. I might have. And I think it. It ended in 73.

[00:20:17] And then in 78. Or so. He does. Battlestar Galactica. Yeah. Yeah. But before we were. And. A lot of these. Michael Landon. I'm talking about. Lorne Green. Yeah. Yeah. Lorne. And. It's so wild how a bunch of these. Would come on. Hallmark Channel. Wild. Wild. What's your take on the. Rifleman. I watched one episode today. I've watched. An episode or two. Here and there in the past.

[00:20:47] It's an interesting watch. I wasn't quite sure. Because I. Tried to refresh my memory. With it today. And I watched an episode. Where. His son is. Held captive. While. These other guys. Take him to a bank. To rob it. Hmm. And. His son gets injured. While. He's at the bank. And they tell him that he. Better not come for an hour. Um. Or. You know.

[00:21:16] Or they'll kill the kid. Or something like that. Something bad will happen. Yep. Right. So an hour later. He comes. His kid's been injured. So he goes on. But he. But she. He turns out okay. But he still goes out. Trying to hunt down the. The bad guys. And he. He wasn't a cop in that. I'm not sure. Yeah. He was. He wasn't a sheriff or anything. He was. He was pretty much just like. Tough to say. Like he was defending. A homestead. He was like the unofficial bodyguard. Kind of in a way.

[00:21:47] Uh. It was just. Yeah. I. I think the hype. Kind of killed it for me. But I can see why. You know. Connors was just so perfect. For the role. He just. I mean. Just the physique. You just instantly. Not in doubt. He had that stern look. That was pretty much. Down pretty well. And then. It's so wild. After all. The gunfights. And. Guarding people. At the end. You just. Unoccasionally smile. At the end. You're like. Oh.

[00:22:17] I see. Now. The good side comes out. And. Yeah. I. I didn't. Like it as much as the. McQueen shot. One. But it. I. I. I get it. It. It has. Just that. It's kind of just trope city. It just. It checks all the boxes. And it does it well. Um. And interesting enough. Since TNT. Kind of became. Kind of western. TV show city. Uh. They did a modern day.

[00:22:48] Movie version of the Virginian. Did they? Yeah. In 2000. With Bill Pullman. And it's just so funny. Because. I did check out the show. Years later. And. Thought it was quite fine. You know. Gary Clark. James Drury. Lee J. Cobb. Lou Gulliger. And. Uh. That. Same kind of deal. Like. I. I like how. The Wyoming setting. You kind of got some. Background. The story on.

[00:23:18] While also seeing again. A mixture of. Ranch life. Uh. City life. Bounty tracking. Another adventure. So. It is interesting how. I mean. I can't blame. Anyone. If they. Get any of these mixed up. Because. You know. It's kind of like. Metal music. Once you've heard a bunch. You will. Unfortunately. Start. Mixing up a bunch of other stuff. That just sounds too similar. Because they're all trying to imitate each other. Yeah. Still your audience.

[00:23:47] So to speak. I had. No. Like I said. My taste. My taste. Usually ran more towards. Wild Wild West. And. Briscoe County. Because there's more. You know. It's not just a Western. Yeah. That was my father's favorite. And he. Always couldn't believe it was. Before Star Trek. Because he always got a. Kirk and Spock. Kind of mentality. From the two leads. I don't know. I don't know that I got that mentality. I don't think. Yeah. Well no. Actually.

[00:24:17] Now that I think about it. Kirk lost his shirt a few times too. Just like. Oh yeah. Just like James West. It was just. Just the more. Just one of them is just like. A brilliant genius. And the other takes out the trash. Just the whole. Dynamic. And. It is wild how they brought it back. Throughout. The late 70s. Early 80s. More Wild Wild West. And. Fun fact. Future. Odo portrayer. Rina Aber Jonas. Was on there. As a recurring character.

[00:24:48] Was he? On the. On the. On the movies. Or the. Yeah. TV movies. And. 80s reunion. That was short lived. So it's just interesting how. Everyone's been on a Western. At some point. We usually think. Hey. You know. You're a genre star. You just do. Slashers. And TVB movies. Like no. They. They've done plenty of. Time playing. Cowboys. And gamblers. And outlaws. I remember. Ray being. In. A Wonder Woman episode.

[00:25:19] Or. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. It'd be. It'd be on Wonder Woman. Or the Incredible Hulk. Often is. The robber who gets it. But. But yeah. And then. Briscoe County. In the 90s. But you know. That's. That's just it. I enjoyed that show. I enjoyed Legend. They both only lasted a year. I. Richard Dean. Is talking about. Bringing Stargate back. And. I hope. Does find an audience. For Briscoe County. He could still do it.

[00:25:48] It would be fun. I. Yeah. I haven't heard him talk to. You know. I haven't seen anything. Where he's talked about it. He talked about it like. Back when Ash vs. Evil Dead came out. Like in a movie web interview. And I'm just holding him to his word. I'm like. Much like Evil Dead. 2. You know. You could come out. And introduce people to it. And they're still going to watch it. Even. If they're not a genre fan. Even if. They haven't seen the original source material. And. Occasionally.

[00:26:18] Briscoe County. Would come up on Freebie. And. Some of the other sites. And I hope. I hope. You know. I mean. With the suits phenomenon. Just showing how you can. It is possible to. Have a second life. For any kind of movie. Or show. I mean. It would be cool to have. A new legion of. Briscoe County fans. And just. Remind everyone. It was a thing. Do we know if it ended. Because of poor ratings.

[00:26:48] Or was it like. Fox pretty much. Was like. After this season. It's going away. But. It did rerun on TNT. A few. About a year later. So that was kind of cool. It's definitely got a cult following. So I'm wondering if that's enough to really. Launch another season. Of Briscoe County. I feel like. I mean. Carlton Coos. You know. Went on to do. Other TV. He went lost. Yep. He did. He had something to do with lost. Yep. Yep. Main show runner on that. And Nash Bridges.

[00:27:18] And Martial Law. And. Used a lot of the same. Guest stars. Directors. But yeah. I. You would. It would be cool. If he. Went back into the well. And tried it again. If you ever get the DVD. There's some great special features on it. And. It's such a shame that. The actor playing. Briscoe's. Buddy. Passed away. Yeah.

[00:27:48] He was like. Show enough. Show enough. I can't. Yeah. Played by Julius Curry. And he was like. A sitcom star. He passed away in. Oh. Eight. From. Pancreatic cancer. God. Sad. I. I enjoyed him in another show. With Matt Frewer. Called Doctor Doctor. Doctor. And so. It wouldn't be the first time. He worked with the unusual. Genre. Head. You know. Working with Max.

[00:28:18] Freaking. Headroom. And. That's cool. If they had a movie. With Bruce Campbell. And Matt Frewer. In it. I'd watch it. That would be fun. Oh man. Would the world. Be able to handle. That much. Awesome. Yeah. When I was surprised by. Well. It's going off topic. But. Doctor Doctor. I mean. When I saw that show. He was pretty funny in it. Matt Frewer was. And.

[00:28:48] He was. It seemed to me like. He did quite a bit of ad-libbing. On that show. And it was. I thought it was funny. I don't know if you've ever seen it. I. Unfortunately. I never did. I don't think they re-ran it. But I. Definitely heard about it. When I looked them up. Back in the day. And. It was just one of those. I'm like. It is cool. Just seeing. What. Many of them have. Done. Outside of their signature roles. Just because. It makes you wonder. It's like.

[00:29:17] Why does no one repeat this? And why wouldn't you want to. I don't know. I just. I wish. Most stuff was available. On some kind of physical media. Instead of just. If you weren't there. You missed it. I was just. We watched an old Star Trek. Or a Star Trek Next Generation episode. Where they're on the holodeck. And it's a western kind of feel. Oh yeah. It was full of data. And I was surprised. Because I saw Pete from Briscoe County in it. Yeah. Yes. He's the guy being held in jail.

[00:29:47] While his father's coming. Or father or somebody's coming to get him. Yep. And. John Pye de Ferguson. I mean. There's a man. Yeah. He's just. He. He was like. Born in Australia. And he's. Canadian. Raised. And so. It's just. He's Mr. B movie. He has done it all. From. The Tarantino produced. Hardcore logo. To. Well. He's like Bruce Campbell. He's somebody I. If I see him on TV. I'll watch it. Absolutely. I.

[00:30:17] He's done. So many things. From the last ship. To. Suits. To burn notice. So I. But whenever. I saw him in last. I saw him in last ship. And I didn't think they gave him enough to do it. Yeah. He. Kind of after a while. Was kind of just. The Merc. And then. Just the away team leader in a way. Um. Uh. But. Yeah. I mean. So many. Guest spots.

[00:30:46] And just other fun stuff. And when I would see him. I'd be like. Hey. I think I should know this guy. And you know. You'd look him up. And you're like. I've seen him more than I realize. I've seen him. Which episode. So. No. And. Uh. He was in Jeremiah 2. Second season. Oh wow. Remember that. That shows. I gotta revisit it. Yeah. Um. What's his name? Sean Astin. Sean Astin. Um. Oh he did show up. Oh. Luke Perry.

[00:31:16] Luke Perry. Yeah. Yeah. Malcolm J. Milwater. On the. Dads from the. Crypt podcast. Or actually know how not to make a movie. Where they interview the main. Writers of. Tales from the Crypt. They did. Actually dedicate an episode. To Jeremiah. And talk about how one of them. Got involved with that. And. It was a good show. But behind the scenes. A lot of the writers were kind of annoyed. Because by that time. Kind of. The Babylon 5 creator. Uh. Who was running it.

[00:31:45] Was kind of a control freak. And he was kind of. Hiring. Just anyone he wanted. And so it just kind of got annoying. Because they're like. You need the script now. And when. So. Uh. You know. The creator. Who are you talking about? Straczynski or? Yeah. Yeah. So Straczynski. And one of the crypt writers. Was guest writing it. But. It just. Was one of those where. They all kind of admired. What he was creating. But. They didn't. They felt his people skills. Needed work. Because he was so used to doing everything himself. Yeah.

[00:32:16] Well. He tried to write. Like. All the scripts. At least one season. Yeah. And. Kind of similar mentality. If he didn't like you. You weren't on the writing staff. Or. If you. Wrote it. He still had to. Change it up a bunch. And have someone else. Co-write it. And. So. It's just a little frustrating. From a writing perspective. But. Yeah. I do feel like it's a good show. But. I don't know why Amazon. Kind of goofed up. Like season one. You have to. Buy. And season two. Yeah.

[00:32:46] It was weird. I mean. I. I got season one. On DVD years before. And I couldn't find season two. For the longest time. And I finally. I bought it off. Digitally off of. I. I didn't know it existed. For the longest time. Until. In the mid 2000s. They re-aired it. And. Modified it. For. Sci-fi channel. Like they took out. Yeah. Some of the language and sex. And. It. Played perfectly. With all the other apocalyptic shows. They were airing at that time. It was just. Wild. In a way.

[00:33:16] Jeremiah. Yeah. In a way. Kind of was a western. In a way. Yeah. Because it took away technology. Pretty much. Take away the Mad Max. Costumes. And yeah. It's basically a. TV western. And. I don't know. I just miss when people. Would just give everyone a chance. Instead of just like. It's got to go. It's got to go now. So I feel like the streaming games. Kind of. Spoiling some people.

[00:33:46] Oh yeah. I got to wonder now. With the diversification. Of all these. You know. Online streaming apps. And stuff. Just. You know. How do they. Do the ratings anymore. Yeah. Because. It's just so diversified. It can't get the rating. I can't imagine any shows. Get the ratings. They used to do. Back in the day. It's like they are. But they aren't. Like they're getting a bunch of clicks. But then there's a bunch. That aren't getting clicks. And. So it just means. A lot of people are having to.

[00:34:17] Do the math differently. Which they don't want to do. And then you get. Just all these other guys. Who. I mean. After the writer's strike. They have. Had to pretty much figure out. It's like. Okay. You're going to pay. Everyone what they're worth. You know. Like. Directors. Writers. And actors. Are going to get these residuals. Instead of one giant fee. And five cents. You know. Year later. So. And. Well. You know. There's been some good westerns. In the last. Like.

[00:34:47] I guess. Ten years or so. I'm good. Hell on Wheels. Was a good one. Hell on Wheels. There's one I want to check out. That. Was by. Scott Frank. You might know. From doing a lot of those. Adaptations. Like. Out of Sight. Okay. Uh. The Wolverine movies. And. A bunch of other. Uh. He got frequent collaborator. Jeff Daniels. To be on this one show. Called Godless. I've heard of that one. But I hadn't seen it.

[00:35:17] That's a western too. Isn't it? Mm-hmm. It was a western miniseries. And. Uh. Actually. Did it start. Yeah. No. I was right. Okay. Um. Yeah. And Michelle Dockery. From Downton Abbey. And Jack O'Connell. Wow. Okay. Um. Uh. There's one I want to see. With Emily Blunt. That was on Amazon. And also a miniseries. Ah. It was called. The English. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:46] I actually. I'm just looking at that right now. On this list. I mean. Lo and behold. Just like. War shows. And historical epics. You know. You'll find them. It's just. Like you say. It's a head scratcher. It's like. This would kill now. What. Was it really in the wrong place. At the wrong time. Or was it just producers. With money to burn. Who didn't want to continue. Well. I guess like. Things like Briscoe County. They just had to have the right. Platform. I guess. And Fox. I guess.

[00:36:16] Just wasn't it. Yeah. Fox tried. Fox was the one. Behind Legend as well. Yeah. Oh. No. That was UPN. But same difference. Same difference. They syndicated it though. Didn't they? Kind of. But same difference. They. They would cancel after one. If it. Wasn't drawing. Star Trek numbers. Or. Like their various sitcoms. For urban crowds. Yeah. Or so. Or Firefly. For example. Is a good one. That's. It's a total sci-fi western. Yep.

[00:36:46] But you're like. Sitting there going. Why was this canceled? Yeah. It had so much to cover. Yeah. It's just getting started. But. You know. And then. Of course. Deadwood. Right. It's been over 10 years. For Deadwood. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. I was really glad. I would see some of it growing up. And I was like. This is going to be very heavy subject matter. I should wait a while. And.

[00:37:14] I'm glad I watched it around the time. They had the reunion movie. Because the movie was kind of its own cool thing. But. Man. I can't even imagine. Just being back then. If they had pulled it. I've been there when they pulled the cord. In the third season. Yeah. I would have been like. Why? They're just getting done. Yep. That was. It was a pretty hard hitting. You know. And violent. You know. Really? Yeah. And. Yeah. And.

[00:37:44] But I think. People. The characterizations were just perfect. Like you just. Much like Rome was showing. Just the Roman Empire. And. The various people who inhabit it. And. Break their own. Standards. Of the time. It was just interesting how. All these guys have a mutual respect for one another. And then have to. Find a common enemy. Who they all take down together. And. Showing. Which is in this case. Those. Which was in this case.

[00:38:13] At the end of it was Hearst. Wasn't it? That they were trying to take down. Yeah. The. The inspiration for Citizen Kane. Yeah. And. I loved how they showed the Earp brothers. Visiting town. And. Those two episodes. That was cool. And. And. So many other great guest stars. Even actors who they would. Recast in different roles. Just after heavy makeup. Well. You know. The guy that. I should know his name. I've said it off. No.

[00:38:42] Not Powers Booth. The guy who. He shoots Buffalo Bill. In the back. And then he shows up later. As a different character. Oh yeah. Garrett Dillahunt. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's it. It's so funny. He's that one character in season one. In season two. And. People are like. Why would you do that? And it's like. That's just it. David Milch was used to doing that. On all his other. Steven Bochco shows. You know. You know. And Garrett Dillahunt. Another guy. I love to watch on TV. I mean. Watching him in Walking Dead. And. You know.

[00:39:12] The Terminator show. Yeah. Yep. He was in that too. He's one of those guys. I wish would do more. Yeah. He's. He's pretty busy. But. He's done so much. I can't keep up with it. But. I. I. I. When I saw him in No Country for Old Men. I was just so shocked. I'm like. Oh. He's playing a good guy for once. You just blew my mind. Because now I'm going to have to go back. And watch No Country for Old Men. I don't remember being in that. He's just one of the deputies. Not really significant.

[00:39:42] But it's just interesting. Because. Because they spend their time on all kinds of different. Actors. Characters. And it's just so funny. He's just like. In good spirits. And it's just so interesting how the rest of the movie is just so dark. He's like the only guy with a glimmering hope. Oh. Well. I never did. Check out things like. I knew my. My stepdad used to like. Cisco Kid. I tried watching.

[00:40:10] But I was not a fan of Cisco Kid. Saw the Harrison Ford movie. Actually. No. No. No. That was. No. No. Harrison. Gene Wilder. That was. Frisco Kid. My bad. Oh. That's about a rabbi. Yeah. Okay. So. That was a movie though. So.

[00:40:40] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Cisco Kid. I did. I never saw the show. But I did see the TNT. Movie. From 94. That. Believe it or not. Still occasionally replays on TV. Yes. Once in a blue moon. I have the Cisco Kid. That's a movie. Which you made me think about something like Blazing Saddles. Do you mentioned Gene Wilder? It made me think of Blazing Saddles. Yeah. They tried. They tried to spin off a show. What? They tried to spin off a show called. I think it was called Black Bart.

[00:41:09] Now I don't know if they went beyond a pilot episode or if they filmed a few episodes. But it was Luke Gossett Jr. in the part. What? What? And I watched it. It was. It was hard to watch. But it was supposed to. It was like a half hour sitcom. Black Bart. Wow. I see it now. Yeah. It's a TV movie. It was a movie. Because no. I thought it was a TV sitcom show that they started. Wow.

[00:41:38] I just see a TV movie. But yeah. Wow. Wow. That's. I had no clue. And so wow how they wanted to repeat that success. Yeah. But they didn't do it very well. Because yeah. I saw the pilot episode of it. And it was hard to watch. We'll return after these messages.

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[00:43:05] The Jacked Up Review Show podcast is honored to be part of the Blind Knowledge Podcast Network. Join anytime, talk the talk, and enjoy yourselves. There's something enlightening for everyone with this crowd of cool cats. Check them out. Damn. I mean, even for that time period, it was pretty dated humor they were using in it. That's a shame. It's kind of like F Troop.

[00:43:34] It was a product of its time. It worked probably because of the time it aired in. Right. You know. You just can't put it in that other setting. Yeah. Okay, yeah. According to IMDb, many more episodes were filmed after the pilot, but never aired because the studio was contractually obligated to make them in order to keep the rights. That's the only reason they did it then. And then due to a contractual loophole, they never had to actually show them. See?

[00:44:05] So there you go. There's the perfect example of way to waste everyone's time. That's kind of like the reason why they made that first Fantastic Four movie with Roger Corman. Mm-hmm. Then throw it away, do one brief screening, and then be like, no, I don't like the production quality. Kill it. Yep. I was so glad I interviewed Frank Conniff and asked him about how does one pitch a sitcom nowadays. And I'm just glad that he confirmed that for me.

[00:44:32] He's saying, you know, the executives get your joke. They're not dumb. They're just wondering how they're going to market it. And so that then made me wonder. It's like, no, how bad is marketing now? Yeah. Did he pitch like Sabrina? I know he worked on it. Yeah. I don't know that he pitched it, but he definitely was one of the main writers on it.

[00:44:51] And I just remember seeing an animated pilot he starred in that was in cartoon form that had a bunch of comedians, including him, for Amazon. And it was fun reminding him of it. And he's like, yeah, you were in that. But it's just cool. Just reminding some of these guys who have worked so hard and just noting to him is like, hey, you're.

[00:45:18] We just want to acknowledge that your talents are invaluable and we hope something else cool happens instead of doing the billionth, you know. Convention for something you did, you know, over 20 years ago. Yeah. Well, I mean, they've got their thing going with the Mads. So. Oh, yeah. No doubt. And I'm sure they'll. You know, that that will go on for years.

[00:45:44] I just missed the fact when they used to do it live because I got to meet them in person and talk to them and stuff. But yeah, I would love to do that again. Yeah. At least one more time. No telling. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean. I have no doubt that Apple TV or some other platform might try. Didn't they try to do something recently like the early 1900s with.

[00:46:16] What was the name of it? It had Leonardo DiCaprio in it. It was almost like a Western, but, you know, his cars were around and stuff like that. It had to do. It had to do with Indian, uh, Indian land and Indian people. Oh, yeah. It just came out. Yeah. Killers of the Flower Moon. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm sure movies will still be a thing.

[00:46:44] It's just interesting seeing how many of them are straight to Internet and Redbox versus are actually in a theater. Yeah. I guess it depends on the budget they spend on it. Totally. I mean, if it has Kung Fu, it's probably going to be direct to make a lot of money. Um, I had something in my head about something I forgot. Uh, yeah, I lost it. Damn it.

[00:47:16] I was thinking along those lines. Oh, yeah. Um, Yellowstone. I haven't watched that show, but they had a miniseries that spun off 1883, I think it was called. Mm-hmm. Yep. Have you checked that out? Uh, I have. Uh, that's kind of the beauty of all of them. They, you don't have to watch them in any particular order because they all intersect at at least one point. Other than 1923, which is basically the next generation of, you know, set after 83.

[00:47:45] And it hasn't crossed over with the main Yellowstone shows yet. And since Kevin Costner's exiting and this is 2020, you know, four is the final year for it. Uh, it's come and gone. And it, and they'll, there's still plans to have McConaughey join the cast and have the other characters get thrown spinoff. So. Even though it's going to end? It's ending, but they're going to continue it in some fashion. Just. Oh, like another spinoff kind of thing.

[00:48:15] Right. It's kind of like all the other tracks and Law and Orders and even what. No, I didn't. Stars Power Show. Yeah. Uh, I didn't watch Yellowstone itself. Just, just that 1883 and a little bit of that 1923, but I didn't get all the way through that one. Um, was Yellowstone kind of like a modern day Western kind of thing? Yeah. And in some ways it's also a crime drama, you know? So. Yeah.

[00:48:42] It's interesting how all these elements, uh, acknowledge each other. Well, one thing I remember from 1883 is that girl getting that arrow, um, in her side, they pull it out. And aside from the fact that, I mean, they put, you know, not like they show it in the movies where, or TV shows from the sixties or whatever, where someone gets an arrow and they're fine.

[00:49:09] Um, she was infected because they were, they rolled that, those arrows and like crap and stuff like that. Oh, yikes. Or did you, you watched it, didn't you? Oh yeah. Yeah. And 1883, that's right. That does happen. Um, uh, So like, you think she's going to pull through, but then she's like, nope. Cause she's infected with the, with the crap that they smeared the arrow.

[00:49:33] I was distracted by so many of the other, uh, guest stars and, uh, there's a few other plot twists along the way. You'll either like, or won't care for, but I think they're going to continue that one. I know 23 is getting another year, but it was just so confusing the way they announced it. Cause at first they're like limited events. And then they're like a year or two coming soon. You're like, Oh, then why, why not rename it? Like, was there supposed to be another year for 1883?

[00:50:02] I thought it was kind of weird. That episode or series. Yeah. I think, I think they're doing another year for that, but I don't know when it's going to come out. Cause the writer's trying to screw so many things up. Yeah. But mainly I just got the gist that Sheridan was just so annoyed with having to deal with his various stars of all his other shows like Costner and Stallone that he just kind of was just. He was like, help me. Give me a breather. These guys that still have movie egos.

[00:50:32] Yeah. And it is wild though, how he went from being an actor who was on shows like Sons of Anarchy and then, you know, becomes a script writer, writes hit movies like Wind River and Sicario. And then just, you know, he's formed his own, he's taken over the Paramount business. And it's just interesting how, too, how he buys all this land in various states.

[00:51:00] And he wouldn't be surprised if that's where he's also filming his various places. So he bought a bunch of land for the studio? For himself. For himself. And he probably sells it to other producers for them to rent out and film on. Oh, a little side business. Okay, I got you. Yeah, yeah. He's hustling.

[00:51:26] So I would hate to be the guy doing all the checking accounting. You know, I'd be like, this goes where? I'm not leaving the office on time, am I? Well, that gives me a thought to why the 50s and 60s, there were so many Westerns back then. It's because a lot of them were probably reused in a lot of the same sets. They had to, Ben, yeah.

[00:51:50] Are there any family members like you, kind of like my sister, where they like to tell if it's clearly on a closed-off film set versus it's outside and their hair is actually moving? Yeah, I mean, that's one way they would save money producing those. They're probably fairly cheap to make, I guess. Yeah, usually I'm cool with it as long as the lighting is good.

[00:52:11] But man, I would buy a few, back when gas stations still sold DVDs, I would buy a few just random made-for-video or aired-at-a-festival-type indie Westerns. Some that would have cameos by Michael Madsen or David Carradine and then feature them prominently on the cover. And each time, you'd have a DVD commentary and some special features, but the movie was a letdown.

[00:52:39] But it just got so annoying because you're like, man, I can't see anything just because the lighting's so bad. You know, that overexposed white. You mentioned charities, and now I'm thinking, oh, I forgot. Kung Fu's kind of a Western. Kung Fu's totally a Western, but people forget it because it's a martial arts crime-fighting show, but it's a Western. It's in the West. I haven't seen the new show.

[00:53:06] I know some people like it because it's culturally correct, but I don't know. I'm just not really into the CW. Oh, is it airing only on the CW, or is it like on a streaming service? I mean, because I... It might be on HBO Max because I know that's where they're airing a lot of the Warner Brothers' own shows now, but I haven't. But I... Let me see. CW... Kung Fu. Yep, it's on Max. Okay.

[00:53:38] Is it like a female lead kind of thing? Because I thought I saw something like that. Yep. Yep, yep. Yeah. I feel like we've kind of summed up a lot of the best, but I'm cool. I do think it's cool how some of these are, again, becoming a franchise, and even if Yellowstone goes downhill, I think more good has come out of it just with the amount of jobs it's shown and reminding everyone, hey, Western...

[00:54:04] I mean, because I know people who don't care for gangster shows or Western shows, and they watch those shows. So that's a breakthrough, you know? I see people who don't like doctor shows, and they would watch stuff like St. Elsewhere or New Amsterdam, and we'd talk about tracks, same kind of deal.

[00:54:22] I see people who aren't into Pew Pew space battles, but they'll watch something like that because they love the characters, they love the scenarios, they love the frills and chills and just other philosophy in it. So, I mean, if you can make it larger than life, you know, and... I mean, South Park's kind of an anti-cartoon, you know? So it's just... But it doesn't... It kind of takes stabs. Yeah, that's one of those shows that takes stabs at the establishment. Right.

[00:54:52] It could only be animated because that's how you get everyone to calm down and not take it too seriously when it's serious. So it's funny. I mean, it's kind of like with video games. It's like if you want... And people are just now finding out ways to transform medium into another format, so I guess let's hope we keep evolving because... I don't know why it's been a mystery this long.

[00:55:22] Yeah. If you can make any version of Mortal Kombat or Sonic the Hedgehog a hit and everything else seems to suffer just because people haven't played the game or they don't have an actual script, you know? My issue is I often feel like they're as bad as watching someone play a video game because they're... You know, you feel left out. It's not very engaging plot-wise or entertainment-wise.

[00:55:50] Because you're just like, okay, I can leave the room and nothing much has changed. That means more cookie cutter then, doesn't it? Kinda. Oh, and that's right. Amazon Prime just came out with a new version of Zorro. Oh, I wondered. I mean, I was just looking at it here. We never did mention like Zorro, like the older version. Yeah, I always wanted to see the 90s TV show version. I'm not sure if you ever saw that one.

[00:56:18] No, I didn't see the 90s version. Yeah, yeah. It even featured a young feature A-lister known as Daniel Craig. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely didn't see it then. Yeah. It was just one of those, like it just... It was like syndicated like on the Family Channel or something like that and even had a few other actors on it. And yeah, it seems like this one is pretty well, pretty decent reviews.

[00:56:48] It looks like it's got good production quality. And, you know, I'm cool with a TV show kind of just taking on the thing. There just would be more time to develop. And it's a big difference from... On Amazon, it just came out this year. And... I'll have to check that out. Except my wife doesn't really like like the harder hitting... Like she didn't care for Deadwood because of the nudity and violence and language. Yeah, that'll do it.

[00:57:17] But I wondered, I mean, is this going to be more mainstream or is it going to have like Amazon elements of harsher language and that kind of stuff? Uh, let's see. Let me look at the parent's guide. It's on Amazon. Let's see. Okay. Says mild elements in all categories. So I think you're good. I'll show it to my wife then.

[00:57:46] She'll probably get a picture of it. Let's go with PG-13. Okay. Maybe PG-15, but definitely not Deadwood level. Yeah. Yeah. There's a gunshot and you've just seen gorse splatter all over the place. Oh, you're saying not like that? Yes, not like that. Rob's... I'm looking at it here now and this says, you know, for people 12 plus.

[00:58:15] Well, you know, I was never heavy into watching westerns and stuff, but Deadwood drew me in when it came out. And I watched it. But then again, I've never had a problem with language or violence in movies or TV. I know exactly the thing. Trust me, my guy. My father would introduce some of his favorite movies that he owned on DVD all the time. And he would learn the hard way every time. He'd be like, oh, shoot. That's right. There is about... In the jazz is playing. There's about to be something risque.

[00:58:44] I might have to rewind and fast forward. Yeah. You know? And it reminds me of when I was in class and my teacher would try to fast forward to Romeo and Juliet during the sex scene. Oh, we're talking the classic Olivia Hussein. Yeah. Yep. I can remember. I had... I shot two years. I went to one school and then the teacher showed it. And she's like... She fast forwarded through it.

[00:59:13] And then another teacher who's like, if I hear any laughing, I'm shutting this thing off. Yeah. And yet you know everyone's laughing after the fact. You're like... Yep. Jeez. The pre-internet age. That had to be the best thing on planet Earth. Yeah. Both English classes. Two different schools. Yeah.

[00:59:40] I kind of wish some stuff could be like Glory where they have a safe-to-air TV version that airs for classrooms and history classes. It's just like... You want to be able to introduce certain movies to certain people. But unfortunately, I think a lot of audiences are just getting dumber. They forget that certain stuff is different if you watch it on TV versus uncut on physical or streaming. Well, like Deadwood is kind of based on real life people.

[01:00:10] But how much is fictionalized in that? They took some liberties. I know the one deputy who marries the one prostitute, that happened in such a different way. But you kind of let them get away with it just because they're just like, yeah. It's just showing a bigger point how they're trying to unite the town.

[01:00:36] I doubt they actually handcuff Senator Hearst, but it's a cool image to show, hey, we're coming for you. And it just kind of showed the right amount of rule-breaking versus we told you a complete fabrication like Braveheart. Well, I mean, I'd heard and read things about Hearst being a real asshole. Yeah, yeah, no, he was totally an asshole. They got that part right. I think they got that part right for everyone.

[01:01:05] I know many historians were hating the language. But see, I don't know how anyone would know how anyone would curse back then unless you actually lived. They were having a problem with the way they were speaking in the show? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Like how they were cursing. Well, I mean, it was almost, I wouldn't say Shakespearean, but there was definitely a lyrical quality. That's what I kind of got to.

[01:01:34] It became music after a while. And I don't mean that in a Tarantino way. Like you actually is like, okay, that's the style. So if it's wild how you brought up the Shakespeare kind of stuff, because I did kind of get that kind of same kind of gist. It's like this is the filmmakers leaving their signature. They're speaking English, but they're speaking English in a way that's foreign to us. What?

[01:02:03] We're just, after a while, we're kind of just strangers in strange lands. Then, well, and I think Rome and Deadwood were airing on TV at the same time. A few years apart, but it's wild how they, to show how arrogant the execs were kind of becoming, they're like, we don't think a Sopranos version of Southern Rome would work. Let's try the Wild West. Then that works.

[01:02:28] And so then they're like, they basically just gave it to a whole different crew who they poo-pooed the idea from originally. So they're like, yeah, do Deadwood, but now do it in Rome. So I just. Rome came after. Yeah, yeah. But. Okay. But it had kind of been pitched around before Deadwood. So it's just funny how they all exist because of each other. Yeah. But they are kind of underrated in a way.

[01:02:57] I do feel like both them and Oz kind of do a good job of just kind of. Just what would it be like if you're in kind of a lawless kind of scenario, you know? And it's kind of a shame. People will often just go, oh, crispy. Oh, the sex in the city, you know, tells from the crypt Sopranos channel. Well, I don't, you know, if you talk about that, I saw all of Oz, but unlike Rome and Deadwood, I felt compelled to buy those because I wanted to own them. But I haven't ever felt that way about Oz.

[01:03:28] No, it's fine. I. If you have Max, you might want to just stream it. And if it entertains again, I think it's just emotionally rewarding. It's just a little, despite, I think much like many of these shows, people get distracted by the content. And so they think it's lowbrow than it actually is. But. No, there's a lot of like depression and some wicked stuff going on and off. Oh, absolutely. And. All the characters. Yeah.

[01:03:57] It's an experimental prison that shouldn't have been formed in the first place, but it. I think it's a little more telling now, especially in a post Sons of Anarchy type. Dramatic fashion, just showing how, I mean, there's so many for profit prisons nowadays. So if anything, I think it just predicted how. How it was going to go. Kind of that. And just. When people aren't properly enforcing rules and they're breaking their own rules. Because it's like, where's any kind of.

[01:04:26] Any where's any sort of justice. Yeah. And when it. And then it goes back to the whole it takes one to ruin it for everybody kind of motif. You know, there's. Prisoners who are trying to free themselves and, you know, do a plea of insanity. And you're like, oh, my word. No. You're poop on walls. There was that. And. I think I just dug how everyone pretty much compromises themselves after a while, but don't get me wrong, it is heavy. And.

[01:04:56] But I think. It would blow every other person's mind nowadays, especially if they. Have a bunch of people they want to philosophize. Oh, I said I definitely like certain actors in it. You know, there's a guy from Ghostbusters whose name I am not. Remember. Yeah, as the. Yep. Yep. Second best known role. Yeah. And then there was a guy in it that I remember from this from the weird science TV show, I think.

[01:05:25] He was playing the guy. I think he was a lawyer or something. And. Oh. He went to. I can't think of his name. But, you know, I like. Lee Turgesson. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially how he compromises himself there. He was just a. Criminal defense lawyer. And then he accidentally ran over a kid and paid the price. Right. Becomes the prison bitch, so to speak. And you're just like. And then.

[01:05:52] And then just things just snowball and get worse and worse as time goes on for him. Yeah. He can't catch a break. And. And especially thanks to that. Mr. Jameson in the. In the Spider-Man movie. Yeah. J.K. Simmons. Yeah. J.K. Simmons. Yeah. It's so. He's so likeable in so many other things. And in that one. And Spider-Man, you're just like. I love to hate this guy. He is. Oh, man.

[01:06:23] This has been a delight, I think. It's because. Western shows are just. They kind of just open up. What makes a compelling story? If you got just outdoor sets. Or closed off sets. And how much of your time is going to show in every day? Just like. You know. What your way of life. Especially if. It's in a historical period. Before we had. You know. Heating and plumbing. You know. Yeah. And I was just thinking of something else. It's not really a Western.

[01:06:53] But. The sci-fi. Oh. Westworld. Westworld. Yep. There's even a Josh Brolin show called. What's it called? Outer Range. Which is like a sci-fi Western also. Has it only had one season? Season two. Finally came out. Oh. Did it? Because I remember something about a big hole. Right. I was just like. When's it coming out? When's it coming out? And. Did they renew it? And.

[01:07:24] Bill Pullman's. Son. Lewis is in it. I'm Ogun Poots is in it. But. Yeah. Much like with them. That. Racial. Horror. Anthology show. I was like. When is it coming out? And now. Finally it's here. And I'm like. Amazon. Why did you. Pull a Netflix. And keep it so secret. For so long. Was it. Was it. The one part of it was written before the strike. And then it took a while to get it going again. And they kind of just kept it mysterious. Like they just didn't. Market or say anything on it. And I'm like. Is it. Coming out or not.

[01:07:53] Um. I. Which also reminds me. There is a western show. About a game warden. In a rural town. Called the Pickets. That's a Paramount Plus show. I'll have to check it out. Uh. That. And. I did watch. When it was on. AMC. Uh. The Sun. Starring Pierce Brosnan. I didn't. I. I saw commercials for it. But I never got a chance. You'll either like it. Or hate it. I. I just. For me. It was kind of like a. There will be blood. Kind of thing.

[01:08:22] Just showing these oil barons. And tycoons. Oh. Okay. Well. That might have a. Some sort of twisted interest. Yeah. It's. It's very twisted. For whatever reason. It just wasn't grabbing me. I just. Couldn't. But. So it was kind of a hate watch for me. I'm like. Who won't they kill? As. Oh. I've liked Pierce Brosnan though. So. Yeah. He was great. As always. It's just. Uh. There's also a. Show that. It's more of a crime mystery. But it's got. Mild kind of.

[01:08:52] Western kind of themes. Uh. Called American Rust. Where. Uh. Once again. Making a second appearance on here. Southwest Pennsylvania. Uh. Police chief. Played by Jeff Daniels. Decides to investigate some. Opioid sellers. And unusual. Just bizarre. Uh. Drug crime sprees. Um. Oh. I'm. Yeah. Is it. What. What. Streaming service.

[01:09:21] It's on Amazon now. Oh. Okay. They originally aired it on Showtime. Showtime didn't like the ratings. Or properly promote it. So they canceled it. And Amazon resurrected it. Um. Um. But. I just like how there's a second chance for everything now. I mean. And I'm even discovering some older western stuff. There was a mini. Historical mini series called Into the West. That aired on TNT. Back in the 2000s. That I. I have a copy of. And. It's also just fun just seeing.

[01:09:50] Where all these different actors. Just seeing them pop up. And it's like. Oh. That guy. He's on Reservation Dogs. He was on Longmire. You know. Or he was in Tombstone. And now he's on this other show. Once again. Playing a sheriff or an outlaw. Yeah. I don't know. I mean. Yeah. With so many. They can't escape it. With so many streaming services. Trying to fill content. Um. Yeah. There is a lot more opportunity for things to get a second chance. I don't know how much of it is. Just. People being stubborn.

[01:10:20] They're just like. Oh. I don't want to bother. I'm like. You should. But. That's what's just so sad too. Is like. When we. Are late to the party. And we want to check it out. And then we're like. And it's already gone. Yeah. I'm not. Sure I want to get into this. If I'm not going to get a conclusion. Well. You know. And another thing with the streaming. Sometimes. It just doesn't come out. Like it used to. In a way. They take their time. Yeah. They take their time. Orville.

[01:10:50] Yeah. Stephanie Farrell. It's taking way too long. Yeah. It's like. You got to wonder. Is it coming back? You know. It's coming back. But then again. Things like the Venture Brothers and stuff. And Robot Chicken. It's like. Their season. Yes. Work out every year. It was like. It might be. A season. A year. Maybe two. Before the next season comes out. Yes. Oh man. So much of that. So. So. It's.

[01:11:20] It's interesting. In that people are. Able to have second chances. But it might take a long time. For them to bring out. Episodes. Which I'm not too fond of that. Like. And they don't even do as many episodes. As they used to do. It's like. Anywhere between 10 and. 13 episodes. Episodes. And then people. Talk smack about it. When it comes back. And it's like. They brought it back. You asked it. And you still didn't like it. So. Well. I mean. I've liked every season of Orville. So far.

[01:11:50] But there's only been three. In what? Six years. Yeah. It should be on season seven. By now. Yeah. Totally. And. And yeah. And they're not. And it's. I'm not sure how many. Are they the ones doing 10 episodes. Or 13. Or. I'm not sure. They kind of did. Yeah. And. I think this is it. I think it just confuses people. And the writer's strike. Really worked against a lot of people. Just because. They need more time to think. Yeah. That's one of the drawbacks.

[01:12:20] Is you. You've got. You've got somebody's interest. But you want to hold it. And you're not going to hold it. If it takes three. Not everyone reads. The Hollywood Reporter. So. Yeah. And. That's the other thing too. I think a lot of people. Don't read the Hollywood Reporter variety. They read a clickbait site. So. Good job. Clickbait sites. On. Making people get into all these. Unnecessary. Just. Talking smack. Sessions. It's like.

[01:12:50] Remember when we just. Would change the subject. Yeah. I'm. Kind of sorry. I was the only one. To join you today. Yeah. What the hell. I get it. Mike is. Crazy busy. I didn't hear him. Yeah. What. Did Thomas tell you. He had something going on. No. No. What happened.

[01:13:20] He didn't join in last week. Though. Did he. I. I know. He's had some. Well. Just. Part time stuff. At work. Oh. Okay. Yeah. It's all good. We'll get there. Just. Oh. People listen. Oh. I mean. There's a lot more back and forth. When you got at least like three people on. Sure.

[01:13:51] Absolutely. Or. You know. James or. Or. Thomas. Throwing in their impressions or whatever. Yes. It's so hard to keep up. We're just like. You did it too well. Oh man. And. I. I'm. I'm trying to think of who's a cowboy star. You could even do an impression of me. How you could probably do. You know. Obviously Clint Eastwood's the best known one.

[01:14:21] John Wayne. John Wayne would be probably the easiest. For people who can do impressions anyway. Well. We're a stranger. And we just got to see them try to. You know. We got to have them on video. And try to see them do the walk. Yeah. Or the punch. Towards the camera. Fun fact. They teach you that in stage combat. Oh. I was watching. I was watching that Wanted Dead or Alive.

[01:14:51] Where. Where he threw a punch at somebody. And you could see it didn't connect. Huh. You know. You can see that a lot. If you paid enough attention. But yeah. Oh I bet. That has to be nutty. You don't want that punch to be sideways. You'll see that they're not. No. And. The fact that it just took him so many years. You know. Before choreography. And all that. Is like you. Where you position it. Determines the. Convincingness. And.

[01:15:21] It's just hell on. Blu-ray. Because now you're going to see other stuff. That wasn't meant to be seen. A lot more detail. You know. You can see. You can see the nose hairs. Somebody has. Or something sticking out of their nose. Or this. The hair that's sticking off of their ear. That one. Charles Bronson. That's the one. He's on. Western. Mystery. It's a.

[01:15:51] Breakhard pass. And. He's. Tackling someone on top of a train. And it's the most. On. Bronson looking guy. Tackling the guy. You're saying. So it's clearer now. That it's not here. Than. Not him. Than it. Has ever been before. I'm sure. Everyone has seen it. And it's not big enough. To be an issue. But at the same time. It's also. Just distracting. Because. I get that. It was before. You can look for the viewfinder.

[01:16:21] And see if you have the shot or not. But it's like. Or watch old westerns. Where they're falling off of. Falling off the top of a building. And you can see the ground. Kind of give away. Because you can tell. There's a map. There you go. Yeah. I even remember seeing that. In an old Night Stalker movie. Oh really? Yep. The guy drops off camera. And then just right at the edge of the camera. Where he's supposed to drop off.

[01:16:51] And you're not supposed to see him. You see like. A pillowy. Like. Mattress or something. Pop up into the screen. And drop. Oh jeez. Then again. That's kind of why I like. You know. If you watch things multiple times. You start to look for things. Absolutely. I've seen. Blade with Wesley Snipes. Too many times. To where now I can tell. When it's the stunt double fighting. And. Getting shot at. They do a good job. Consilling it.

[01:17:20] But we've seen it so many times. So like you say. Our. Our eyes go in opposite places. Than. To observe other detail. We're not supposed to see. I mean. Half the time dude. Makes me wonder. What it would be like. If we only saw every movie once. Would the memory be preserved. Or would it be just. Meh. Well. You know. People have reasons to watch the movies. The second time. But then. Even they start to look at it. And go. Okay. I didn't notice this before. Yeah. You did. I like that. Yeah.

[01:17:53] But that's. That's. Yeah. That's why I like. To watch old movies. And bad. Even bad movies. Bad movies are the best. Because you just see things like. Boom. Bad movies. Popping into the screen. Or even the shadows of the boom mics. There you go. Or reflection of the curtain mirror. Or something. Yes. Absolutely. And. If anything. It just makes us appreciate it more. As opposed to. We see a movie that's. Just bad. And we're just like. I can't tell you.

[01:18:22] What worked about it or not. You know. Like. Playing Night from Outer Space. They always make fun of Thor. Bouncing into the walls. Thor. Yeah. It's painted to look like stone. Or something. You can tell it's not. Because he just bumps it. And it moves. Absolutely. It just. I wonder how. Even just. Wrestlers of that time. Just. Let's say they had.

[01:18:52] The marketing. Of what we had today. Well. Wrestlers of that time. I mean. It was just as fake. For the wrestling. Then as it is now. Right. It is. It's like. What if. What would have happened. Had they actually treated them. Like people back then. Yeah. Oh man. Interesting. I think I remember seeing. A documentary about. You know. Like. I think it was Jake the Snake. What was his name?

[01:19:22] Jake the Snake. Is all I can remember. Jake the Snake Roberts. Yeah. Yep. There's a documentary about him. And man. They. You know. They fake the wrestling. But. They do a lot of physicality. That gets them hurt. Yeah. Yeah. You still get hurt in some way. Whether it's the. All in kind. Treatment. Or. Things people say to you. Not treating you like a person. Treating you like a circus freak. And now you're making me think of the wrestler. With Mickey Rock. Yeah. I'm sorry.

[01:19:52] Not trying to impress anyone. But. Yeah. I mean. I'm just glad that they are getting into some of the other nuts and bolts. Trying to actually. Try harder on these documentaries. Instead of them being just clip shows. Yeah. They're. They're interesting to watch. I'm trying to remember if I watched any others. I remember the Jake's. The Snake one. And. I still got to see Dark Side of the Ring. I hadn't even heard of that one. It's a Vice one. I'm not sure what. It's on.

[01:20:22] But. And then. I remember. And then I remember one about. Thor Mickelson. I think. Is that how his name is pronounced? I think so. From Mystery Science Theater. He was in. Zombie Nightmare. Yeah. And. He kept eating everybody. John Mickey Thor. Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah. Yep. He and a bunch of other guys kept. Like just. Living on a different planet. It's just like.

[01:20:52] Yeah. Adam West is like. What am I even making? And there's another guy who. Tia Carrera is in that too. Isn't she? Tia Carrera. Yep. Yeah. And she didn't realize. There was an audience for it. Until like that. Remastered MST3K. Like DVDs came out. And they started asking for her signature on it. And they told her what the show was about. She's like. I had no idea. No. I was watching the Mickel Thor one. And. Um.

[01:21:23] It's kind of funny to see. You know. You think these guys are living it up. And. Having all this money and stuff. It didn't look to me like you did from that documentary. No. Yeah. If it's too good to be true. It probably is. Yeah. Unfortunately. A lot of the western stars. Have. Lived pretty long. Toured. Cowboy heritage museums. And. Uh. I still. Every once in a while. We'll.

[01:21:52] Get an issue of Cowboys and Indians magazine. At the store. Just. To see some of the new interviews they have. Well. You know. Gunsmoke ran 20 years. There's a lot. I'm sure there's a lot of guest stars in that. I saw. Has to be. I saw Tom Skerritt. I saw Tom Skerritt in the one I watched. It was the last. Season or two of the show. That I watched the episode today. And it was Tom Skerritt. We. And Becky and I just. Tom Skerritt also showed up in an episode of Time Tunnel. Ah.

[01:22:21] Because last week we were watching an episode of Time Tunnel. He shows up on that. Perfect. And. I had no idea his career went that far back. Yeah. Well. And then. Yeah. And then in Cheers. He was also. You know. Um. Christy Alley's character was pining for him. Like. Show. For his character. Because he's one of the guys. It's like one of the major. Uh. Big wigs. That's right. Or something. So it's like. This last month. We've been seeing him all over the place.

[01:22:51] And we didn't even watch Picket Fences. Uh. It's on Hulu now. So there you go. Yeah. He's another guy who has. Went from the Air Force to acting in movies. And just all. Sorts of unusual roles. Pretty likable character actor. Yeah. I didn't know that he had a career before Alien. Yeah. Oh. Oh man. It would be cool to see.

[01:23:21] Who was the two or five timers. Club of. Any other syndicated western show. Just. See how many times they run it. A lot of people. And it only had a five year run. Or was it even a five year run. I don't remember. Oh. Oh. It's fun. This has been a delight. My guy. I think it's. We have shown.

[01:23:51] Just about anybody can play. An outlaw. Cowboy. Ranch hand. Wrestler. Gambler. And a western. Like it's just kind of fair game. It just works better for an ensemble. Kind of like a heist movie. Instead of. I got to get pumped to play this superhero. Or this. Delta Force operator. I forgot to mention. Didn't they make Magnificent Seven into a TV show too? Yes they did. Nineties. Von Perlman.

[01:24:23] I always meant to see it. And unfortunately it's. It's been streaming. It's. I haven't seen. Yeah. I haven't seen. I've just seen the original Magnificent Seven. And then the remake movie they did. I never saw the TV show. Yeah. It's. It's wild how many sequels they had. And. Same kind of deal. Like. MGM was able to repackage it. So many different ways. Kind of like James Bond. Yeah. Well again. Sorry. I'm the only one that was in on it. I'm sorry.

[01:24:53] They missed out on the fun. Hey. You know. Hopefully we. Named so. So many different. Favorite westerns. If we left any out. Comment. There is. There is a lot. That we left out. I'm sure there is. There's so many westerns. So many. Just talked about the ones we knew. And. Was I right. Calling that. Blazing Saddles. Spinoff. Black. Yeah.

[01:25:23] Yeah. I learned something from that. I was like. I had no clue. I thought that was just a rumor. Well I kind of wondered. If I got the name wrong. Or. You got it exactly right. It's. It's. I said. We lost Gaza Jr. And poorly rated. I'm like. Jeez. I had no idea. Yeah. It was kind of like. F troop humor. But not as good. Yeah. It's just not. Not kicking. And. Yeah.

[01:25:52] It just shows you how. It's not just a matter of who's even. Holds the reins. As much as it is. Just the format. And execution. So many factors. Well. You know. And I was seeing this. And. Because he's. He's. You know. He's playing the black sheriff character. Yeah. Which I can't. And. And you know. Is this. Lou Gossett Jr. The guy that's been in like. What? Officer and a gentleman. He even did a. HBO TV western movie. With Anthony Edwards. And.

[01:26:22] Yeah. Rest in peace. There's a man who's been on. Five decades of. The small screen. Yeah. I gotta wonder what his first. Appearance was on a show. Ah. That's a great question. Probably an episode of. Man X. You don't think he goes back farther. Like. Oh well. He does actually. With. Pointy A. I would have to look at it again. And see how much of it is. Theater versus. Local. You know.

[01:26:52] Plays. I can remember. I was surprised. Like looking at an old episode. Of Dragnet. I saw. Harrison Ford. In an episode. I haven't. I don't think I saw that one. But. That's awesome. Okay. He was on a Kung Fu episode. Playing a guy named Mr. Harrison. Yeah. Oh man. That I don't remember. It's been a long time. Since I've seen Kung Fu. He is on an episode of the Virginians. So there you go. And. It's just fun.

[01:27:22] Just seeing. Various people. Just. How they evolve. Well. You know. Jack Nicholson. In Little Shop of Horrors. It's one of the first things. I don't. I don't know how far back he goes. But. Little Shop of Horrors. Is like 1959. 1960. Yeah. And now. He's playing the guy. Who loves getting his teeth drilled. Have you seen that? Yeah. Nicholson. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's so crazy.

[01:27:48] And then I'm trying to remember who played that character in the musical remake. They did in the 80s. Nice. Steve Martin played the dentist I think. I think so. It's just. I love it when they repackage people. It's like the ultimate tribute to people who have seen it for so long. Yeah. Well. Thanks for talking to me. Anytime. Anytime. Here we go. Inner tapes.

[01:28:16] Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple, and anywhere else. Podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening. It's a jacked up.