Verbal Masturbation with Kate Kroll- Renaissance Woman

[00:00:00] Film Rage presents Verbal Masturbation with Bryce and Jim. In this week's Verbal Masturbation session, we are talking with an award-winning director and producer. She has also traveled the world as a burlesque performer and stepped through the ropes as a professional wrestler. That professional wrestler's name is Calamity Kate.

[00:00:27] She is a true Renaissance woman and her name is Kate Kroll. Her latest film, Lunatic, The Luna Bichon Story will be playing this Thursday, April 24th at 6.30pm. Welcome to the show, Kate. Hello. Hello. Are you... And I can mention the film will be showing at the Calgary Underground Film Festival. We were going to get there. Trust us. We are a big booster of the Calgary Underground Film Festival.

[00:00:56] But that's okay. The more we say cuff, the better. Yeah. You can actually, during the conversation we're going to have, you can just stop and say cuff. It's not a... It's the opposite of a safe word, if you know what I'm saying. People knew where to be. Nice. Sorry, I'll let you do your thing. I'll stop directing. No, no. You know what? Directors go out of direct. Directors direct.

[00:01:20] And you know what? We're pretty annoying people at the best of times, so, you know, get used to it. Okay, so we have a thing on Film Rage we call OR when we interview fabulous directors such as yourself. And it's a simple process. I'm going to ask you two things. This or that. And you get to say whatever you want. No judgments. All right. Wrestling or burlesquing?

[00:01:52] These days, wrestling. All right. That's a safe answer for your movie, for sure. Okay. Horror or comedy? Horror. Nice. I find a lot of comedy is like, there's some good comedy out there, but there's some, I can't do the college humor. So, I'd rather just be scared. You just like to see murder. We get it.

[00:02:22] Yeah. A good old-fashioned blood orgy never has any problems anyway. Okay. Tokyo Dome or Madison Square Gardens? Oh. Would I rather wrestle in or go see a show? You can interpret it any way you want. It's an OR question. Or you can answer it both ways. You can go both ways on this.

[00:02:49] Are you asking me New Japan Wrestling or WWE? If you feel that way, then that's how you answer it. And what era? You know what? What era? I love this. You're giving this way too much thought. But you know what? It's all you. You don't even have to tell our listeners why you chose one. But you can. You can say, this is why you're choosing it. I've always wanted to go to Japan. And so, Tokyo Dome sounds great.

[00:03:18] But Madison Square Garden is quite epic. It's the Mecca. Yep. Yeah. So, I'm going to say Madison Square Garden. All right. You know what? Just so you know, there's no wrong answer. It's okay. I loved your answer. Okay. Canoe or kayak? Oh. Canoe's fun because you can have more people in it. Yeah. Unless you have a really big kayak, which I don't know if it exists.

[00:03:49] I don't live in BC, so I wouldn't know. We don't have any water here other than a river, so. So, and our last one for you is fork or chopsticks. Chopsticks. Yes. They're more fun. All right. Right? That's the best. All right. Let's jump in. Actually, before we go, do we have a limitation on your time other than the block that you have?

[00:04:15] I have another interview at 1140. All right. We'll make sure we get under that. But you and your company, Black Moon Media, have a knack for spotlighting powerful stories about Canadians. What drives you to tell these stories in a cinema landscape that I guess I want to say is dominated by Disney-style content? Hmm.

[00:04:44] Well, you know, I really love to tell stories about, I love strong female characters. I love telling stories through a female lens. And so that's really important to me.

[00:05:00] I will also say with the election coming up, once it gets too political, but, you know, thank God for the government funding that we have for our arts and culture and particularly film. Mm-hmm.

[00:05:47] Yeah. And that's something I'm thinking about when I go to the polls in the next couple days. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, it's such a good point. Both Bryce and I, we live for independent and underground film. Like, it's what drives us. It's where our passion lies. So you're right. If it goes in a certain direction that isn't going to allow us to see as much content as we want, it's going to break our hearts, too. So, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:17] Basically, yes, totally. I'm sorry I'm saying it. Fair enough. This is all about you. You can say whatever the hell you want. Oh, by the way, you can swear as much as you fucking want here. Oh, okay. Yeah. I was going to try and pretend that we were, like, alt-right Christians and that, you know, we don't like any swear words. But, you know, because we talk about anal a lot on our show, I don't think it's going to go far too bad. So, okay.

[00:06:46] So, Raven Banner. What? With less, I'm going to say less than 5% of their films being documentaries. How did you score this? And it's a score, by the way. Yeah, Raven Banner Entertainment, they're amazing. They release so many great genre films. And occasionally, they'll release documentaries.

[00:07:14] And actually, this entire documentary, it wouldn't have happened without Michael Pash, who's one of the owners of Raven Banner. So, I saw Michael's documentary, A Nail in the Coffin, about Vampiro. And I approached him afterwards, and we started talking, and it actually turned out that my husband was his roommate in Mexico, like, 20 years ago.

[00:07:43] Which, we didn't know this. Like, we had never met before. So, he loved wrestling. And I said, I was like, I love your film. We need a woman's wrestling documentary. Like, pitch me something. I pitched him Luna, and he's like, I love it. Let's do it. And Raven Banner came on board. Like, they were the first ones on board. And because they came on board, I think the momentum just kept building with the project.

[00:08:11] And so, I owe a lot to Michael and Raven Banner. Nice. For making the project a reality. Yeah. You know what? It's great when someone with money who wants to make films also has a similar passion, right? It's like, easy sale, right? Well, exactly. Michael's a big wrestling fan. So, yeah. So, it was the perfect fit. Nice. All right. So, your journey seems like you went from burlesque to professional wrestler to filmmaker.

[00:08:41] Tell us about your journey as an artist. I actually, I started as a filmmaker. Yeah. I started, I graduated film school in 2005 when I was 13. Obviously. Obviously. And, yeah. So, I was making films. I made this documentary called No Fun City that ended up getting a lot of attention. I don't know if you ended up getting the link.

[00:09:10] But, you know, we were mentioned in Rolling Stone magazine. And we won awards at film festivals. And that was my first documentary out of film school. Like, big documentary out of film school. And I had done a lot of short films. But, so anyways, I was a filmmaker. And I needed to get away. I needed to be creative and get away from the computer.

[00:09:40] And so, I started doing burlesque. And there's so many crossovers between filmmaking and burlesque. And same with wrestling. It's story. It's characters. It's theater. It's stunt work. It's choreography. Like, there's so many crossovers. So, I like to do everything. Not just one thing. Like, I get bored really easily. There you go.

[00:10:10] Yes. So, as a wrestler, are you a heel or are you a face? It depends. Sometimes I'm a heel. Sometimes I'm a face. I like being a heel. It's really fun. I mean, like, when is it acceptable in society to walk up to someone and call them an idiot? Yes. You know what I mean? So, I get to just get that all out. And it's funny. You get to just be, like, a total loser.

[00:10:40] Sure. So, before we get off the topic of you as a wrestler, okay? You have this one move where your opponent is seated in the corner against the turnbuckles. And then you do the splits, absolutely nailing them in the nether regions. How did you come up with the move? Is this like a Calamity Kate original move? Yeah. I think it's the Calamity Kate original move. I don't know if anyone's ever... I don't know if I've seen anyone else ever do it.

[00:11:12] Well, being a dancer, I love dropping down into the splits. So, I might as well use that to my advantage. And especially when I'm wrestling men, I know their weak spots. It could be quite effective. It's effective. Yep. Yeah, it usually gets a pretty good cheer from the audience. So, it's fun. Nice pop. Yeah. I know wrestling is 100% real. And so, I'm not...

[00:11:41] You know, if I was in the ring with you, I'm like, yeah, totally. This is going to be painful for me. I can bet you that. Yep. Nice. Okay. So, how did you fall in love with Luna? Like, was she your idol? Or, like, where did the passion come from for her in particular? Well, she's... I mean, I think she's someone that a lot of us have looked up to.

[00:12:08] I mean, she used to make little boys cry back in the day. Because her promos were so scary. She was so scary. Um, but... Really, Luna... How did I fall in love with Luna? Interesting. I mean, I didn't know a ton about her. I mean, I thought I knew a lot about her. And then realized I actually didn't. When I started digging more and learning more, I realized I had only just seen the surface of Luna.

[00:12:37] And, um... She's someone who... Is a really dynamic character. But a dynamic human. She has a lot of layers to her. She's got the biggest heart. And I think that... What originally made me interested in her was... She plays this really scary heel on TV. But when I saw, like, behind the scenes of her

[00:13:07] or real-life interviews with her or heard stories about her, I realized she was this genuine human with a beautiful heart who struggled with her mind. So she struggled to be that person all the time. You know what I mean? And that made me really feel for her, too. That... You probably want to be a certain way, but you can't.

[00:13:38] Um... I just felt that about her. Um... Because I knew deep down she was a genuine person who would give you the shirt off her back. And she could. Um... So the more I... I learned about her, the more I fell in love with her and her complexities and her... You know, just being a real person at the end of the day. Yeah, and you think about it like being a director. I mean, you totally get that, too.

[00:14:08] You get that people are a certain thing in... on film, in front of the camera, and... and can be a completely different thing off the camera, right? So... Mm-hmm. It's, uh... Yeah. It's cool that you got to see the insight to help get to see the full picture. So it's very evident in the film, by the way. Just... Oh, thank you. So, the scenes with Luna's family, especially with her dad and son, really hit hard. Her son being left out of the wedding,

[00:14:37] or her dad stopping the interview at the end. It felt incredibly raw and likely tough to film. How difficult was the task of filming as your subjects process some hard stuff right in front of you? I mean, it's hard. I, like... You just don't know what it's like asking people intimate questions about their loved one who's passed away. It's hard. You want to be respectful.

[00:15:06] You don't want to, like, have to send them to therapy or whatever because it's... like, they have to relive trauma, but at the same time, as a documentary filmmaker, you have to separate yourself from the emotion of it, if that makes any sense. Like, I feel like I'm a doctor or a scientist and I'm trying to get

[00:15:37] answers to questions that we all have. You know what I mean? Like, we need... I can't tell her story if I don't have the truth. I can't tell her story... Like, I can't do justice to Luna if I don't have real answers. And so, I have to keep that in mind that if I'm just getting topical answers or if I'm just asking topical questions, then there's no story,

[00:16:06] there's no point of even telling Luna's story because it's gonna just be fake. You know? Yeah. So, it's... I felt asking intimate questions but at the same time I knew there was a bigger purpose to that and so you kind of have to just be... I don't know. Sometimes you have to almost be like a... a detective interrogating

[00:16:37] someone. You know what I mean? You're a detective. You're trying to put the pieces together for a story. Yeah, totally. Speaking of putting the pieces together, why do you think Luna was so dedicated to Vince McMahon? Hmm. Right. Well, Luna says in an interview that she was addicted to wrestling. She loved Vince. I mean, you know, WWE was

[00:17:06] and arguably still is the best. It's the biggest, baddest, baddest like in a good way. Badass, you know? Like, it's the dominant televised wrestling company and I think, I don't know. I think maybe she fell in love with Vince and Vince's

[00:17:36] father, Vince Senior, when she first met them, when her father and her uncle Mad Dog were wrestling at Madison Square Garden. First time she ever went to, you know, one of their real wrestling shows. And so, you know, maybe there was some nostalgia there for her, maybe because the McMahon family was close with her father and uncle. You know,

[00:18:06] maybe there was something there. I don't, I don't know, but I mean, might come back to her, just her loyalty too. She seems to be very loyal to the people in life. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, do you think Luna Vachon would have thrived today with women getting more time for matches, character development, and promos? Yeah, you know, I get asked that a lot, and I always say,

[00:18:36] I do, like I think she was, everyone will say this too, she was so ahead of her time. I think if she was around now, and she had this opportunity that the women are getting these days, she would have thrived, but also, I, like if she wasn't taking care of herself and taking care of her mental health the way she wasn't back in those days, she might have gotten canceled. Yeah. And that's something that just hit me,

[00:19:05] because, you know, now that it's less taboo to talk about mental health and to talk about going to therapy, maybe she would have taken better care of herself now that mental health has become a conversation in society, where, like it wasn't really talked about as much in her day. So, you know, maybe she would have been taking her meds properly and seeking help and this and that, but maybe she would have had, like now it's

[00:19:35] so easy to get canceled. And especially if you're beating up people backstage in the locker room, and if that gets out online, online, and that becomes a big, if that blows up online, you're done. And so I actually have been thinking about this a lot and I feel like if she was able to keep herself under control, she would have done well. If not, I actually think she maybe could have gotten canceled.

[00:20:05] Wow. Interesting. Yeah, no doubt. Wow. So, a little aside here. Moolah, would you describe her as a pimp, a gangster, or is it more complex than that? That's very controversial. And there's people who trained with Moolah who love Moolah and swear by Moolah. But there's all, as you've seen in my documentary,

[00:20:34] there's people who trained with Moolah who flat out call for a pimp. Penelope Paradise wrestled with Moolah. She, like, toured with Moolah. She said Moolah wasn't a pimp, but it was more like indentured slavery, you know, for lack of a better term, where, like, you're always having to pay Moolah for this, pay Moolah for that. She would take your passport,

[00:21:04] this and that. But, I mean, Luna, in an interview, says that when she was 16 years old, Moolah sent her to a man in Arizona to get pictures taken, inappropriate photos, and Moolah was paid money for that. So, like, that sounds like a pimp to me, especially like a 16-year-old girl. Oh, my God. So, I call Moolah pimp adjacent.

[00:21:36] Some people will hate me for saying that, but I can't deny what Luna's saying and what Mad Mac Dean is saying. There's enough stories out there for sure. Did she have a huge hat and, like, a huge T-bird or something as well? I just imagine what she might have driven around in. A pimp hat? Yeah. I mean, you wonder how much she owned it, right?

[00:22:08] she had a fur coat, so I don't know. There you go, she's halfway there. Plus, she had the outlandish sunglasses, too, so, you know, she was walking the part. She knew what she was. So, with a film in theaters now, right now, on Mildred Burke, and a doc on Luna Bashaun, how great it is to see more focus on women athletes in film? Oh, I love it. I mean, that's why I wanted to make this film in the first place.

[00:22:38] I just, I wanted to see more female wrestlers celebrated on the screen. So, it's really, really cool to see that these women who helped pave the way for me are getting their flowers finally. That's awesome. Have you seen the new film about Mildred Burke? Queen of the Ring? Queen of the Ring, yep. No, it's on my list. Yeah, I'm so

[00:23:07] excited to see it. Awesome. All right, this is our final question actually for you. So, we've kind of talked a little bit about this already, but the film, I feel, kind of echoes the idea of check yourself before you wreck yourself, highlighting the importance of self-care and mental health. Would you say that this would be the main message that you want people to take away from your film, or is there other, just as important messages

[00:23:37] that you feel? I mean, I think there are a lot of it, like there are a lot of important messages in this film, but yeah, for me, the biggest takeaway that I would want people, oh my god, I can't talk to you guys, the biggest thing I would want people to take away would be on the subject of mental health. I, you know, I had two friends commit suicide while I was making this film,

[00:24:06] so that really drove home, but, you know, why I wanted to talk a lot about Luna's diagnosis with bipolar disorder, and I think we have to still keep talking about this and understand that it's okay to get help, it's okay to admit that you need help, and that if someone is diagnosed with bipolar or schizophrenia, what it might be,

[00:24:36] they're not crazy, and even in the film, a lot of people use the word crazy, she was crazy, she would just go crazy, crazy, but I'm hoping that people will walk away with a deeper understanding that you can't just write people off as being crazy, that they're, like, you just don't ever know what someone's going through, and we have to keep that in mind, and myself included, I'm not perfect, and I need

[00:25:05] to be a bit more understanding that people are fighting their own demons internally. Yeah, that with mental health and with drug addiction, right? Like, so many people are so easy to just have people, for whatever reason, be throw away, and no one is throw away, you know what I mean? Like, it's so important that we realize that every human has value, they do add value, and they're somebody's kid, they're somebody's dad, they're someone's mom, you know, like, all that is so

[00:25:35] important. So, yeah, I think the message does come clear, the fact that you share, like, at the end, where you talk, the message of, you know, if you know someone, like, these are important things, I think, that people going to film this, it's okay to talk about these things, and it's important that people know there's resources for everybody. So, yeah, thank you for that. All right, well, thanks, Kate, for joining us. Please tell our listeners, you know, any last words you may have, or how they can worship

[00:26:05] you from afar, like we do here at FilmRage. Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. I'm on Instagram, kcroll.blackmoon, or there's an Instagram account for the Luna documentary, so it's called Lunatic Documentary, I think. Oh my God, I need more coffee. Anyways,

[00:26:34] I'm also on Facebook, Calamity Kate is on Instagram and Facebook. I'm not on Twitter anymore because, do I even need to say why? I'm sure you can think that. You can, yes. Yeah. So, yeah, follow me, reach out to me, I love talking to people, and come check out the film in Calgary on the 24th at 6.30pm at Globe Cinema.

[00:27:04] Yeah, are you going to be here in town for it? I will be, yeah, I'll be doing a Q&A, so you can come tell me how much you like or hate the film, or ask me a juicy question. I love juicy questions. Nice. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. We really appreciate it, and thanks Ragers for listening. And as a reminder, as we've already discussed a few times, but it doesn't hurt to mention it again, tickets are available to see Lunatic, the Luna Vachan story, Thursday,

[00:27:34] April 24th at 6.30pm at the Globe Cinema. Make sure to pick these up before it sells out, and you can find all this information at calgaryundergroundfilm.org where you can buy your tickets. That is it for this special verbal masturbation with the fabulous, fabulous, fabulous Kate Kroll and Calamity Kate. check out Film Rage

[00:28:03] everywhere at filmrageyyc.com and until next time, rage on. Rage on.