True Crime Special: John & Robert F. Kennedy Documentaries (with Kevin from Almost Presidents Podcast)

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[00:00:20] Welcome all, we are on the show again.

[00:00:48] >> Coming to you live, no, we can't, we're recording, but

[00:00:52] we might as well be live, because we're right for us.

[00:00:56] >> It's live for us.

[00:00:56] >> Right, it's good enough.

[00:00:58] And you don't know, we'll do a live quote plenty of times.

[00:01:03] I have with me returning from the almost president's podcast.

[00:01:07] It is the teacher himself, Kevin.

[00:01:09] >> I'm actually not a teacher anymore, I should say.

[00:01:12] >> Yeah, I'm a former teacher, I used to be.

[00:01:14] >> You taught me a bunch of things.

[00:01:16] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got out of there, thankfully for me.

[00:01:20] Ryan is still a teacher, but I'm not a teacher anymore.

[00:01:24] >> Good, so on display, we're gonna talk about Oliver Stone's more recent

[00:01:30] showtime featured documentary JFK revisited, followed by the initial

[00:01:36] late 2000s doc, Robert F. Kennedy, must die.

[00:01:40] For those who wanna watch along with us or wanna watch this before,

[00:01:44] you can find RFK, must die, and an unlisted YouTube link.

[00:01:49] You might check your local Reddit, you should find it there.

[00:01:51] JFK revisited, can be purchased or

[00:01:53] rented off of places like Voodoo, Amazon, I don't think it's as anymore.

[00:01:57] But you can give a brief showtime subscription and then go from there.

[00:02:02] This was a fun topic to discuss because we've been back and

[00:02:06] forth, it's like what historical dramas and mini-series can we cover that and

[00:02:11] judge the merit of them, let alone just see what they have to offer thematically.

[00:02:15] And I can't wait to hear your thoughts on these.

[00:02:18] We'll kind of just circle around between both, I guess we could just start with

[00:02:21] the JFK one and then go to his, we'll go in historical chronological order and

[00:02:25] then go to the other Bobby.

[00:02:26] >> Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:02:29] First thing I wanted to say, the one thing that I love about these conspiracy

[00:02:34] theory kind of guys, is they want so bad to get the word out there,

[00:02:39] that you can always find those docs for free, like, RFK must die.

[00:02:42] It's up there on YouTube, you know?

[00:02:45] >> But I couldn't find it right away, man, I couldn't find it.

[00:02:47] So I don't think the committee of state wants us to even be talking about this.

[00:02:51] >> Maybe that's what it is, yeah, they can't even try to hide it.

[00:02:54] >> I mean, and I know they own like a less than a quarter of the Disney companies.

[00:03:01] So I mean, I didn't know that actually.

[00:03:05] >> I think I think I saw that somewhere in some article and it was just like, but

[00:03:08] I get it.

[00:03:09] It's a lot of stuff to digest and discuss and, you know, I get it.

[00:03:17] If you don't want scandals about your family being listed,

[00:03:20] you probably use all the power in your might to make it not widely accessible.

[00:03:25] >> Yeah, for sure and I will sympathize with, I remember when Nancy Pelosi's

[00:03:33] husband got assaulted or whatever in their home.

[00:03:38] >> And a bunch of people came out with all these like conspiracy theories about

[00:03:42] how he was actually friends with the person who assaulted him or something or

[00:03:46] they were gay lovers or something like that.

[00:03:49] And I think that's one thing that's underplayed in some of these things is it's,

[00:03:53] it can be kind of deeply offensive for someone who has lost a loved one to be told

[00:03:59] that actually it's not the reasons that you think it is for why that person was killed.

[00:04:06] And I think that's something that gets kind of underplayed is I think in some of

[00:04:10] these, especially, and we'll get into this one, I know we said we would start with

[00:04:13] the JFK one.

[00:04:14] But with the RFK with the RFK documentary, there was that interview with the woman

[00:04:20] who saw the polka dot dress woman and it was this very hostile interview.

[00:04:26] And I was like, not to necessarily say that something fishy wasn't going on there could

[00:04:32] have been, but it could be the case that that guy was so hostile just because

[00:04:36] there was this national tragedy that had literally just occurred before his eyes.

[00:04:40] And somebody now was coming out and saying, no, no, no, it's not.

[00:04:45] It wasn't the national tragedy, you think it was, it was, you know, yeah, so

[00:04:50] that's kind of one thing I think that sometimes gets lost in some of these conversations.

[00:04:54] >> Yeah, and I get it, it's not a pretty side.

[00:04:59] And just as the general disclaimer, you know, we're just

[00:05:04] mainly just trying to just figure out why just kind of the nuts and

[00:05:08] bolts of what happened these unfortunate days and you've done a good job on your

[00:05:13] show and almost present so just kind of summing up how, you know, much like even

[00:05:18] Ted Kennedy, like Bobby was a very impactful voice.

[00:05:22] And I, it's just, there's a lot of so much collusion that,

[00:05:28] you know, it'll probably take decades more just to get any kind of impactful

[00:05:34] complete story.

[00:05:35] >> Yeah, for sure, and it can definitely be very hard to unpack a story and

[00:05:41] actually uncover the specific map of events, right?

[00:05:46] Because that depends on so many witnesses.

[00:05:49] >> What kind of a piece do we seek?

[00:05:51] Not merely peace for Americans, peace for all men and women, not merely peace in our time,

[00:05:57] peace in all time.

[00:05:59] >> The Flash, apparently official, President Kennedy died some 38 minutes ago.

[00:06:08] >> Here is a suspect.

[00:06:09] >> 24-year-old Lee H. Osbold.

[00:06:11] >> I'm just a fan of the president.

[00:06:13] >> Who actually fired the shots that killed Kennedy.

[00:06:16] Was there a conspiracy?

[00:06:20] >> In the years since the Warren Report, there is now so much more that we know.

[00:06:25] >> Conspiracy theories are now conspiracy facts.

[00:06:29] >> The Warren Commission successfully deceived the public.

[00:06:32] Alan Dallas' appointment to the Warren Commission is one of the great frauds of American history.

[00:06:37] >> Documents are withheld by the FBI, the CIA.

[00:06:41] >> Intelligence agencies did all the wrong things if they were looking for conspiracy.

[00:06:46] >> We will go back and piece together new facts and evidence that shed more

[00:06:50] light on what really happened here that day.

[00:06:55] >> Commission believe it's the same bullet that yet Kennedy had come, but I don't believe

[00:07:00] it.

[00:07:01] >> It is indeed a magic bullet.

[00:07:03] >> Oswald was a figure of interest for four years before the assassination.

[00:07:10] They were reading his mother's mail.

[00:07:12] >> His first year in office, Kennedy made many enemies.

[00:07:18] >> He vows.

[00:07:19] >> He was going to shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces.

[00:07:22] >> Have you ever committed any act of violence?

[00:07:25] >> He was intimately involved in the cover-up.

[00:07:30] >> Once you kill a president on the streets of American city, that sends a signal.

[00:07:35] >> The rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.

[00:07:39] >> If America really wants a democratic society and we should get to the bottom of this traumatic

[00:07:45] crime that continues to reverberate throughout American history.

[00:07:50] >> This nation will not be fully free until all its citizens are free.

[00:07:59] >> I will say we came on previously a few months ago to talk about the movie that this

[00:08:06] is I guess supposed to be a follow up to, which is 1992's JFK, the Oliver Stone movie.

[00:08:13] It's not a documentary, it's like a drama film, political drama kind of film.

[00:08:19] >> Right.

[00:08:20] >> I will say that was a much more entertaining one for me.

[00:08:22] This was a little dry, at least I found it to be a little dry.

[00:08:26] >> Despite the presence of Donald Sutherland and Whoopi Goldberg chiming in, it was not

[00:08:32] very organized.

[00:08:33] >> Yeah, Star-studded cast in the voice acting department, Whoopi Goldberg and Donald

[00:08:38] Sutherland, like you said, but it was a little bit dry.

[00:08:44] And it really, I think, I don't know if you disagree with this, but I think it very much

[00:08:49] rehashed a lot of the same stuff in just a standard documentary format.

[00:08:54] So I guess depending on what you're going for, if you want to watch an exciting movie,

[00:08:58] the original JFK is a better movie to watch.

[00:09:01] But if you want just the information, if you just want to hear what happened, or I guess

[00:09:06] Oliver Stone's perspective of what happened because at least me personally, I have a lot

[00:09:10] of disagreements with his narrative.

[00:09:12] This documentary is definitely a much better way to go, I would say.

[00:09:15] >> It is kind of a wild, not some bold kind of thing.

[00:09:19] I was kind of that way with Black Hawk Down, it's like if you want to actually know the

[00:09:22] people, watch the history channel documentary, if you want to just see the action in real

[00:09:27] time, you can watch the movie, but you still are very confused as to who's shooting at

[00:09:31] who.

[00:09:32] >> Right, yeah.

[00:09:33] >> Same kind of deal here, yeah, I thought there was some fascinating footage in archive

[00:09:37] interviews, but it needed more spice for some afterthoughts.

[00:09:40] And unfortunately, like I say, even though the movie is too many cooks in the kitchen

[00:09:46] in opinions, and even though it has good performances, it's kind of just somehow, it's basically,

[00:09:56] if you just watch this, if you just want to try run through and watch the movie, if you

[00:10:00] just want the various statements that were problematic for years with the actors recreating

[00:10:07] the scenarios.

[00:10:09] >> Yeah, or if you watch the movie and you were confused, which to be fair, I was the

[00:10:13] first time that there was a lot of times where I was like, I just can't follow the specifics

[00:10:18] of all these different things he's trying to lay out.

[00:10:20] So it just kind of lays it out really plain.

[00:10:23] >> Right.

[00:10:24] >> Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:25] >> I did the point of having Donald was because he played Mr. X in the movie, but.

[00:10:29] >> Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean, I guess getting into a little bit of the meat of the documentary,

[00:10:36] I think this is, I might be echoing some of the things I said when we came on last.

[00:10:41] I do take issue with a lot of the things that Oliver Stone says.

[00:10:46] I don't know, there are a lot of things, I think, especially with the JFK one, that

[00:10:50] are weird, particularly the one thing that I find to be a little bit weird is the whole

[00:10:55] magic bullet thing, the idea that one bullet did it.

[00:11:00] It just seems a little bit, it seems a little bit weird to me.

[00:11:06] I don't rule out that it's possible, but it seems a little bit weird to me.

[00:11:10] And yeah, I don't know if you have thoughts on that.

[00:11:13] >> I was kind of the same way where I'm like, okay, I think you're doing a little more

[00:11:18] harm than good, you know, you mean well.

[00:11:21] >> Yeah, so starting an awesome with the conspiracy, you could start off with the facts, and then

[00:11:27] maybe you could have gone into the disinformation or miss that bastardized it for a while.

[00:11:33] >> Yeah, and so I kind of, one thing I want to kind of did a little bit of my own research

[00:11:41] after having watched it, I don't know if you've seen, there's this famous image of the path

[00:11:47] that the bullet took, that guys like Oliver Stone will show, where it seems to be kind

[00:11:51] of like curving, just to show, and they show this just to show how ridiculous the thing

[00:11:56] is.

[00:11:57] So that image is actually not a good image of what happened, and there's another image

[00:12:03] where essentially it shows, I think it's Connolly up front, and he's kind of like leaning to

[00:12:10] the side, and that actually explains the path without all the loops and curves.

[00:12:16] But the thing that is weird on top of that, the thing that, because the path is not weird

[00:12:22] actually if you look at it from the right angle, the thing that is weird is that the bullet

[00:12:27] came out kind of unscathed, you know, when you shoot a bullet, it bounces around especially

[00:12:33] if you shoot it at a human, it bounces off of things, and the bullet gets all warped and

[00:12:39] deformed, and the magic bullet doesn't look that way, the bullet, they have it in evidence

[00:12:44] and it doesn't look that way, and that's the one weird thing.

[00:12:48] That's how I am with technical advisory, where I'm like, hey, you know, I know this is a big

[00:12:54] issue and everything, but if you're there to advise, and even correct store narrative,

[00:12:59] you know, I would risk probably being fired just to say, hey guys, this didn't happen

[00:13:03] at all.

[00:13:05] Yeah, and that kind of bothered me with the Oliver Stone, like the original film is they

[00:13:11] should have showed the actual path of the bullet, not this one that at this point in

[00:13:18] time has been shown to not be true.

[00:13:21] Yeah, so that's one thing.

[00:13:25] One thing I very much take issue with that Oliver Stone says is Oliver Stone has this

[00:13:30] narrative where JFK was right on the brink of pulling us out of Vietnam, and this is

[00:13:38] his theory for why the CIA was motivated to assassinate him, and I think the problem is

[00:13:44] it doesn't really seem to be the case that JFK was going to do that, at least from my

[00:13:49] perspective, and most historians are kind of, they're kind of mixed, like some of them

[00:13:56] will say, okay, maybe he was, like, maybe he would have, you know, we never know, but

[00:14:03] he certainly was not like Gung Ho, I'm going to bring all the troops home, like most historians

[00:14:08] agree on that, that's a pretty consensus thing.

[00:14:12] Oliver Stone cites this document, what was it called?

[00:14:17] Do you remember the national NASM?

[00:14:22] Yeah, it was like a national statement of some sort, I should have taken better notes

[00:14:27] than that.

[00:14:28] But I know the portion you're talking about, but like I say, I mean, the footage is great,

[00:14:35] but like I say, I take Oliver Stone as serious as I take Spike Lee, where he's there to get

[00:14:40] your attention and provide bigger food for thought, but he's mainly just kind of being

[00:14:45] edgy and breaking rules, you know, for instance, like Black Clans, you know, half that shit

[00:14:51] didn't happen in the movie, but that was fine.

[00:14:53] That was part of the narrative to paint a bigger picture, it did that deliberately as opposed

[00:14:56] to, hey, no, we're going to tell you the story and then make shit up that bastardizes

[00:15:01] the story.

[00:15:02] No, that's not typical Hollywood.

[00:15:05] That's them being artistic and just painting a bigger portrait on issues at the time.

[00:15:10] Oliver's though, I think for a while, he just risks becoming a giant unorganized rant and

[00:15:15] you're just kind of like, well, clearly you're very well intended.

[00:15:18] I'm kind of lost in the shuffle here.

[00:15:20] Yeah, and I think the thing with Spike Lee, right, with Spike Lee, he is making films

[00:15:25] that are meant to be good films and entertaining films.

[00:15:30] And so if you twist the narrative, it's kind of forgivable, right?

[00:15:35] Because at the end of the day, if you're trying to produce a good film, if you have to bend

[00:15:38] the narrative a little bit to make it more interesting, that's kind of acceptable.

[00:15:44] But Oliver Stone is a purporting to be telling us back.

[00:15:48] She's better.

[00:15:49] Yeah.

[00:15:50] Yeah.

[00:15:51] So I would plot him for having the stones to want to talk to Vladimir Putin and Castro

[00:15:58] and all these guys over the years, because I don't think any of us could, because, yeah,

[00:16:02] very much states that I don't like seeing portions of those and he's just like, I want

[00:16:06] to know.

[00:16:07] And it's like, well, okay, knock yourself out.

[00:16:10] But I wouldn't consider that.

[00:16:11] Nicholas Kirtzkin. Yeah, and there's a lot of things like Putin. No. Yeah, I'm a little uncomfortable with interviewing Putin. I mean, I agree. I mean, to some extent, I think like, if you can interview someone, interview them. I haven't seen that specific one. But, you know, to some extent, I think if you can do it, you know, might as well for the purpose of like gaming information. If you're like a documentarian like he is. I will say, you know, I'll, I'll applaud him. I think, America.

[00:16:42] While I do think that Castro was insane on a variety of ways, I think America had two hostile of a position towards him. And I don't think it was to anyone's benefit. And so, you know, whatever on that one, I guess. But, oh, shoot.

[00:17:00] I just found the name of that.

[00:17:02] It's called National Security Action Memorandum, 260.

[00:17:06] Oh, wow.

[00:17:08] Just found it. Yeah, sorry.

[00:17:10] So, yeah. So, so not NSA or anything. It's like, no, just.

[00:17:16] Yeah. And so, so this, this memorandum was essentially something that Nixon, or sorry, not Nixon, my brain, Kennedy had signed off on basically saying he was going to draw back about a thousand military personnel from Vietnam.

[00:17:32] And it has some indication that they think like, okay, things are kind of going fine here. We won't need to remain here for much longer and we'll end this whole conflict by 1965.

[00:17:42] And days after Kennedy was killed, LBJ basically went back on that. He passed a second memorandum basically saying no, we're not going to.

[00:17:54] And the, I don't want to say occupation, but the military presence in Vietnam, and he, yeah, so he kind of went back on that.

[00:18:04] But Kennedy was, I think, also kind of questioning whether that was going to be a good move and also the 1000, the withdrawal of a thousand troops didn't necessarily mean that they were going to follow through on the other promise that the conflict would end, you know, so yep.

[00:18:22] Yeah, it's a lot to take in, especially with, like you say, these new findings that hey, that this wasn't followed or this was the public story and, you know, report, but it wasn't it wasn't followed up on.

[00:18:37] Don't confuse the statement with actual, you know, on the record, you know, carrying out material.

[00:18:45] So, you know, I mean, I think those are some of my major thoughts, would the CIA take out a president, you know, maybe, like, I would be an extreme action, but, you know, about the stuff and all that but yeah, it is, I think that's actually going to the second one is like, it does make you wonder, like, we've seen how crazy.

[00:19:07] Either side can be low alone how if people are willing to just refuse to acknowledge each other, there's no limit to just how violent anything can be I mean we've seen reports on how activists were targeted by the FBI during J Edgar Hoover's time so you know.

[00:19:25] The people want to paint a bigger portrait on I'm cool with that but maybe try and do some more looking around and finding some new stuff you know interview some history professors interview some other stuff instead of just well, you know, I'm regurgitating this and half of its on info wars and it's like, okay.

[00:19:44] I don't want to listen to this. Yeah, true yeah interviewing probably the same people who were sources for the last movie would be my guess.

[00:19:52] There are some weird things with the JFK assassination no doubt I question whether the motive was there with the CIA given the fact that I don't think JFK was trying to draw back troops in Vietnam, or if well, if he was I don't know that he was necessarily fully trying to end the conflict.

[00:20:12] And I think it's an image is already a big cluster in terms of what he didn't didn't do.

[00:20:17] Yeah, and and also I think one thing worth noting there is that it turned out to be the case that LBJ like took the Vietnam War to insane extremes right however you wouldn't necessarily have known that at the time.

[00:20:34] So I think that's exactly a gung ho foreign policy. I want to go into all these wars guy.

[00:20:42] And I think one thing that's worth noting is most presidents with a few exceptions they really don't want to spend much time doing anything foreign policy related and to the extent that they get tied into foreign policy entanglements they always wind up considering it like a huge mistake.

[00:21:01] And I, you know, to his grave I think regretted that this wound up being the thing that he got remembered for this huge entanglement he wanted to be remembered for like the great society and stuff like that you know.

[00:21:14] Yeah, exactly. And so I don't know that you could predict that LBJ would be very like cozy to the idea of the Vietnam War, you know, it would be anybody's guess.

[00:21:26] And I think you know, I think it's just a podcasted a good episode on the whole Cuban Missile Crisis to other nuclear fallout to just other just cold war threats and basically you pretty much get the gist of Kennedy not wanting to act on stuff wanted to be the bigger man in the room.

[00:21:41] And the final voice while Bobby was often the louder than you know I'm going to give you will you know.

[00:21:47] That's a part of Bobby's legacy right as him being when he was younger kind of this hard headed Attorney General who was yeah kind of probably was even more foolish and almost did a lot of jail time for being a cop at a wedding.

[00:22:02] True.

[00:22:04] Yeah.

[00:22:06] It's also just, you want to talk about circumstances it's like half of these people, you know, Dave and kind of.

[00:22:16] It's not that that they had no business being in politics but it's just like.

[00:22:21] You couldn't have told even told them that that's where they would be, you know, x amount of years from now.

[00:22:27] Yeah, that's true. Yeah, a lot of these guys definitely they were like that and and JFK was a little bit of a dark horse candidate. He was not necessarily expected to do as well as he.

[00:22:38] He did I don't want to say he was a total dark horse. It's not like George Washington where he didn't want to but he then finally said okay fine. Someone wanted to.

[00:22:48] Yeah, he definitely wanted to. It's just, he was kind of that way.

[00:22:52] Yeah, he had come into politics largely because his dad had so much money.

[00:22:58] Less because he was already kind of part of the Washington establishment. And so for that reason, a lot of people didn't think he was going to be able to beat out someone like Nixon, who was, you know, the VP.

[00:23:13] Yeah, so it's even funnier just seeing how Nixon is a perfect example of someone who's remembered for a lot of shit who did like maybe five good things like opening up like better water preservation and everything and it just reminds me is like, well, that's

[00:23:28] kind of labeled how you want. Hey, it's either them covering their ass or they're being productive or they were doing their job but they were also, you know, breaking every other law.

[00:23:36] I can only hope that with future generations people keep reminding that each other that almost all this is possible, especially with the look at your phone here and now, and how half that date has already been stolen.

[00:23:50] You're going to see an ad pop up with stuff that no one else should know, but you know, so I think when you look at even just criminals half the time is makes you wonder what is legal anymore.

[00:24:03] You're talking about all these wiretapping stories and legal obtaining of information I mean, there's another person who won't be named he was related to January six, and they pretty much just got a slap on the wrist instead of any jail time.

[00:24:17] Right. Yeah, it's true. I know it's true, but I think definitely especially with the emerging technology and, you know, AI all this stuff I do think we probably need more clarity on from the law on what is, and is not.

[00:24:32] In terms of cybersecurity and in terms of what is terrorism. Yeah, and in terms of like, you know, I don't think there's really any.

[00:24:42] I don't really think there's as much of any laws as to like what these companies can do with your data, they can I think do basically what they want, because the perception is is you're selling your, or you're offering them your data and return for you using their services.

[00:24:57] There probably should be some clarity on like what are you actually what is Facebook allowed to do with my data, are there any rules at all like I think there should be probably some right.

[00:25:06] Yeah.

[00:25:08] And open everyone up to is like the world is not black and white, you know, like you see on TV it is not cops and robbers anymore there's so many layers to it.

[00:25:20] Some you can maybe even argue that. Well, maybe not argue, but you could just state that they're right for a hot topic and not, I'm not saying that because we want, you know, a debate or anything trivial but it's just like, you think gun control and abortion rights are

[00:25:43] a big hot topic. I mean, information and double standards I think need to be talked about a little extra, especially with how, I mean, you'll, you'll see it every election.

[00:25:55] You'll see someone is like, I'm okay with this, but not this and that I'm like, well, they've done this in that. So why do you think that, you know, validate each other.

[00:26:04] But also figure out is like, well, other than just whatever party you've always been loyal to what why do you want to vote for this guy, you know, other than where you heard this rumor or statement.

[00:26:17] I think it's going to get it messier so I can only hope that even if cable wants to make really great use of its time. I think they should form some extra new stations, you know, instead of just, yeah, regardless of how you want to slant.

[00:26:30] I mean, I think spectrum doesn't okay, dill but I'd like to see even more just local affiliates to say, hey, we're going to do our twist on this.

[00:26:39] And open up the chat instead of you just angrily watching Fox News or CNN at your, you know, relatives house and just like, I don't even want to look at the screen.

[00:26:52] I guess bring it back to JFK. Yeah. One thing I meant to say this earlier, I just wanted to loop this and I found a quote from Theodore Sorenson, who is, who was one of JFK speech writers.

[00:27:07] And he said many, many years later. In 2008, he said, I would like to believe that Kennedy would have found a way to withdraw all American instructors and advisors from Vietnam.

[00:27:20] But I do not believe he knew in his last weeks what he was going to do, unquote.

[00:27:26] I think that gives you a sense of of where I think Oliver Stone is over playing his hand in this film where he's indicating that it was very clear that JFK was was on the way to withdrawing troops.

[00:27:39] But, you know, his closest advisors were essentially saying, yeah, Kennedy didn't really know what he was going to do next, you know, and, and one thing I'll throw into the mix as well is that the situation in South Vietnam at that time was changing very rapidly.

[00:27:56] Oh my God. Yeah. Right. So I got in the French. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. And and right before Kennedy died. The, the, I mean, you can call him president he was more, more of a dictator, but the president of South Vietnam.

[00:28:12] And that's, that's what the end DM was assassinated, like, I think, all, like less than a month before Kennedy died. Yeah, and so the situation was changing rapidly was very unstable.

[00:28:24] So, you know, I don't think anyone can really say that Kennedy was going to withdraw from Vietnam that that seems very unclear to me. But, yeah.

[00:28:35] And that's an extra sidebar.

[00:28:38] People who like history and war and Westerns, and, and just other documentaries, you might check out. We were soldiers. It's, doesn't interesting take on what the Viet Kong were doing and their strategy plan versus the US recruiting young guys and they're at the start.

[00:28:57] But there's some historical merit to it. There's also historical inaccuracies where a lot of the guys, like portrayed by Mel Gibson and Sam Elliott weren't actually on the field at that particular battle. But you gotta just let it go if you just want to documentation of it.

[00:29:13] But at the very start, it does portray the French now do I believe that the Viet Kong rubbed it in their face Rambo style no, but I think they definitely took no prisoners and massacred these guys.

[00:29:27] It's interesting how all the stuff we're looking at, it covers the segment of it.

[00:29:34] I get it as a filmmaker you just can't help it you want to let much like stones as I had your two cents and I'm like it's like, I'm not even sure if I could watch our go nowadays for instance, because like that whole second half, which is very exciting did not happen.

[00:29:51] I don't think I've seen that movie but yeah I know especially with like a lot of the war on terrorist stuff I think it's about that right now ago.

[00:29:59] Yeah, it's about the hostage crisis but it's just like oh it's the hostage crisis.

[00:30:04] Yeah, and some of the Canadian guys and other CIA guys who held busted but, yeah you got, I mean, I think lone survivor does pretty good job when I go to even history versus Hollywood once in a while where it just shows a lot of the people making cameos how they look and

[00:30:22] they don't have to wait for the movie to show the real life people at the end, they're done with the reenactment but I like how they sometimes just show stuff in the loop like lone survivor like Marcus little trail for instance you know he makes a cameo in there and it's his life story but

[00:30:37] what I just said is like, your guess is as good as mine as to the exact certain aspects of this you know mission gone wrong because you know recounting it and obviously there's going to be some inaccuracies on the time and everything and other technology that was down that

[00:30:53] I couldn't have, you know, possibly covered it in that time span, so we had to compress it even though it was definitely months of survival. Yeah, right.

[00:31:05] Yeah, okay so do we want to be pretty much on the same page I think we were both way faster than by the RFK thing.

[00:31:12] Before I started making this film I knew nothing about Bobby Kennedy, a privileged guy with ten kids who became a hero to black and Hispanic communities and promised to heal a divided America.

[00:31:22] Then a year before I was born he was assassinated.

[00:31:29] This is the story of Kennedy and his assassin, the official story, the evidence against and the others who may have been involved.

[00:31:37] He hit all communists, you know, he what you call a hundred percent American all the way through, you don't mess with him and he blow your ass apart.

[00:31:46] This girl came running down the stairs in the back, came running down the stairs and said, "We've shot him, we've shot him."

[00:31:54] And I says, "Who did you shoot?" And she says, "We shot Senator Kennedy." She had on a white dress with polka dots, she was light skinned, dark hair, and she has a funny nose.

[00:32:05] I thought it was really funny. All my friends tell me I'm so observant.

[00:32:09] One of the problems was that Sir Hand couldn't remember the actual shooting of Robert Kennedy.

[00:32:15] So he put him under hypnosis and had him recreate the night of the assassination.

[00:32:21] [BLANK_AUDIO]

[00:32:31] [Music]

[00:32:40] To me, it was obvious that he had been programmed to kill Robert Kennedy and programmed to forget that he even programmed.

[00:32:47] [Music]

[00:32:51] There are just things that muggle the mind that should be looked into.

[00:32:55] If all of this leads to where we suspect it's going to lead, we don't want it to ever happen again.

[00:33:01] I was really surprised at the amount of people who have worked on it.

[00:33:05] It was one of those where it was distributed by this Canadian company.

[00:33:10] It still titles the assassination of Bobby Kennedy.

[00:33:13] It's such a shame.

[00:33:15] If you go to IMDV, which is owned by Amazon, they're like "Rin it on Amazon" and they're like "Oh, we no longer have the rights to share this."

[00:33:22] So other than the YouTube link, I'm not sure where else any of us would have been able to see it, unless we want to pay for an expensive DVD.

[00:33:31] Yeah, and who even has a DVD player anymore?

[00:33:34] I do, but it's a good point.

[00:33:37] I know.

[00:33:38] Most people are not going to have it.

[00:33:41] I couldn't find much on where it played or anything.

[00:33:46] It might have played out a few festivals.

[00:33:49] What I thought was kind of cool about it was it felt very much like an independent work of journalism.

[00:33:55] It felt like this one guy doing a very thorough investigation of the situation and of what happened.

[00:34:03] I really thought that was kind of cool. When I was in college, I used to watch homemade YouTube documentaries.

[00:34:12] It felt sweet.

[00:34:13] It was almost one of those, but better, more well done.

[00:34:19] Oh, yeah.

[00:34:21] I had fun doing it in film school, just seeing how many people were motivated to go the distance and how many others were.

[00:34:28] Yeah, almost hit the nail on the head, but you got such tacky narration, you know, or too much be rolling, not enough of you interviewing the people.

[00:34:38] The hardest part was definitely reminding yourself, hey, as interesting as all of us find this, it can't be free hours long.

[00:34:46] This documentary has got to, you know, it got to dial this down.

[00:34:49] I always love it when you see editorials or just giant stories and it's multiple people interviewed.

[00:34:57] They dissect, you know, all these separate interviews into one whole collective is like, this guy is, you know, these five people are talking about this one guy is like, see, that is just as impactful as watching the actual well made.

[00:35:10] Crispy, Chris, clear documentary.

[00:35:13] Yeah, right. I agree.

[00:35:15] So I guess getting into the meat of the documentary then.

[00:35:20] What, what, what did you think about the overall narrative? I thought some of it was a little wacky person.

[00:35:29] I think they did play into some of the conspiracy theories at the time.

[00:35:33] I'm not sure how much of that was their narrative versus that's maybe that's how they got distribution.

[00:35:39] I know this is aired on the documentary channel, but I wouldn't be surprised if this showed up on some other conspiracy network.

[00:35:45] It's a decent intro to those trying to find the general facts and a good reconstruction of the LA crime scene with the survivors talking. So it gets extra points on the interviewees.

[00:35:56] I mean, I'm kind of with you. There is some other stuff in there when much like this they do kind of talk about the CIA might have been behind it. I'm like, okay, well, how much of this is you versus you got someone there.

[00:36:07] Because I mean the JFK if there's one good thing about that documentary other than like some of the Chris remastered footage was they had the line, conspiracy theories now conspiracy fact, which again taken with a grain of salt but this one.

[00:36:20] I feel like they could have used a little more like awesome title cards.

[00:36:25] And each chapter.

[00:36:28] Yeah, I kind of, you know, yeah, I can kind of agree with that it was, I mean, again, it felt like it was a little bit more simply made.

[00:36:36] The material made up for it, but at the same time he would have liked to see a little more little more bang for your buck.

[00:36:42] Yeah, and I think one thing that I.

[00:36:48] So maybe this is a rude thing to say I don't know but I think that if your explanation for why this guy isn't responsible for killing Bobby Kennedy is that he was secretly hypnotized by the CIA.

[00:37:03] I feel like you've just got no case, like I feel like that's, that's, that's, that, that was just that.

[00:37:10] Yeah, that was just a little silly to me.

[00:37:12] I liked like five other things that they discussed, but yeah, I, the hypnotizing definitely didn't make sense to me.

[00:37:19] And I've seen people practicing everything I can understand if you're at a dinner party.

[00:37:25] And you just like simple things kind of like a magician trick but yeah if it was just.

[00:37:32] I do feel like they kind of glamorized unintentionally I don't feel like they were trying to but I feel like they gave him too much of a talking voice.

[00:37:40] And it's like whatever.

[00:37:42] Yeah, and I think that, you know, the idea that, first of all, I think what you're saying shrewd hypnosis I think is kind of a real thing, but it doesn't work like that.

[00:37:54] I can't just like mind control people. Yeah, like my mom does psychic work with animals, but it is not at all like you see on TV where.

[00:38:03] You know, I saw the case, you know, I was like no you, you get a vision, but you don't, you know, you can't see you know you don't just see dead spirits and everything.

[00:38:14] So I'll unfortunately, people like to cling on to the fiction versus the reality so I, I wouldn't be surprised if they're it.

[00:38:25] If maybe 40 years from now someone says by the way this document is absolute horseshit they didn't get any of it right.

[00:38:31] I'm like well, okay well. So there you go. I, I, I do feel like the documentary.

[00:38:37] At least I like that they went out and talk to a bunch of more under the radar people former government and CIA guys but at the same time.

[00:38:46] You could also make the argument maybe some of them are liars.

[00:38:49] You know, so yeah well, yeah, I don't, I don't know if I think anybody is a liar in these situations.

[00:38:57] I think that I think that people underestimate how hard it is to remember these really chaotic and high emotional events.

[00:39:06] If you see a senator who you supported and you really believe in because a lot of people, unlike many other president presidential candidates, like our people were true believers they really really thought he was going to change the world.

[00:39:20] And to see him get gunned down right in front of you. Your memory is not going to piece that together in a perfect way. It's just not because they're so, first of all it's chaotic as hell.

[00:39:33] And second of all, it's you have so much emotion in that moment that, that it's going to warp what actually happened. And from what I was reading.

[00:39:43] There was this idea in the movie that people were saying he couldn't have shot him from the distance that he was supposed to have shot him like witnesses saw him shooting him from farther away.

[00:39:57] And the problem is, that's just people's memory. And how do we know that they put it together accurately.

[00:40:04] And apparently there are other witnesses, who I don't think were in the film, but there were other witnesses who said they saw him basically firing twice so he fires once from far away.

[00:40:16] And then he runs up to Kennedy and shoots again, a second time. And that's where that second woman comes from that seems like it had to have been shot from up close if that makes sense.

[00:40:27] Unfortunately, like you're saying, yeah, you don't know how much of it is trapped in by trauma versus, you know, because sorry guys we didn't have phones back then.

[00:40:39] Yeah, right like we don't have a perfect re re I guess imagining of the event through like a phone yeah so it's a little bit more frightened if something like this happened during post Internet age though.

[00:40:51] Yeah, yeah. I think half the people would be brainwashed and be like, yeah, you didn't really get shy so I would kick and like right now.

[00:41:01] Why would you say that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough to say. I, I, but I was impressed with like some of the other people they got but like you're saying I mean, I think they are.

[00:41:17] We all have a bias so I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are, you know, just love the sound of their own voice.

[00:41:25] Yeah, and I mean, I think that some of them genuinely believe that they saw something and you know who knows I wasn't there but I think most of these people I don't like I don't think anybody's lying, you know that that wouldn't be my position.

[00:41:41] But I don't know that if all we've got is that, you know, people saw the gun getting fired from this distance and not from this distance.

[00:41:51] I don't know if that's going to sell me personally. I think one of the other general guys.

[00:41:59] He came off to me as a good old boys like a pro or American but I want to be surprised if he had stuff he just he flat out can't declassify he can't tell us.

[00:42:10] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:13] Yeah, that's true that's that's also possible, but like to say I'm with you I don't think they want to lie or miss and form, but I wouldn't be surprised that they're misremembering or wrote down their notes wrong.

[00:42:26] Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, and I guess I think we've been kind of talking about this for a minute but I'm thinking maybe we should kind of clarify what happened so that the, I guess outline of events that with with Bobby Kennedy getting shot as he walks off stage

[00:42:41] after having given the speech on June 5 after he wins the California primary, and in LA, then the city. Yep. Yep. And he's cutting through basically the kitchen, and then Sir Hans Sir Hans in there, and he shoots him multiple times.

[00:42:58] And that's, that's it. He's dead. And the where the conspiracies come in is a, I guess based on forensics or whatever.

[00:43:10] And if I remember correctly and you can correct me Cam if I'm mixing something up. That's fine. Right.

[00:43:15] But I, but I think that he, there was, there was something with the forensics where it didn't seem like he could have shot him from a far distance away. He had to have been point blank like based on close.

[00:43:28] Yeah. Yeah. And so, and so some witnesses were saying, you know, we didn't see him up close we saw him fire from like a few feet away from like 15 feet away or something.

[00:43:39] Okay. And then, and so there's a conflict there right because it seems like it, he must have shot him from up close but some witnesses are saying he didn't do that.

[00:43:48] So, so that's kind of what we were talking about much like, okay, the bullet logic still seems to be have a lot of holes. No pun intended. Yeah, and, yeah, and it's, it's, I think it's kind of hard with bullets like, because it's such a wild and chaotic event.

[00:44:05] The fact that the bullet stuff winds up being weird is predictive of much to me. You know, yeah, this definitely have way more credibility. I'm saying a lot for an independent one.

[00:44:16] You know, always get that's where I'll give them credit like they did it. I think they put together good.

[00:44:22] It didn't drag events. I wasn't looking at watch too much. I wasn't going. Okay, this is fine, but the sound editing or music plays too much over the people talking, you know.

[00:44:34] It had a lot of exclusive, as well as free to use footage and it's like, you know, they was pretty well intended.

[00:44:45] Hey, you know, it's tough to say that about other, you know, documentaries to.

[00:44:51] Yeah. Yeah. So the other big thing with the RFK documentary is this woman in the polka doc dress, which I feel like we should address. Yes.

[00:45:05] So lots of it is very, kind of like.

[00:45:13] Was it Jack Ruby was one of the two gunmen for JFK.

[00:45:19] Jack Ruby.

[00:45:23] Yeah, there was all involved and then. Yeah, so many other suspects and she's another one where it's like.

[00:45:28] Talk about a tough figure out story is like, who is the real culprit.

[00:45:33] Yeah, so the woman in the polka doc dress, just for people listening.

[00:45:37] It is basically, there was this woman in a polka doc dress, as we said, who was seen in various locations throughout the hotel before.

[00:45:47] And after he was shot. And specifically this one woman whose name is Sandra Serrano, who is a witness was sitting outside of the hotel and basically this woman in the polka doc dress runs out and says, we shot him we shot him we killed Kennedy.

[00:46:04] And then, and she's just saying this, and the woman's like, kind of like, okay, what's going on there.

[00:46:11] We're not saying we shot Kennedy. You know, and so, and there are other sightings of this woman with the polka doc dress right so it's not just, it's not just her, but, but she is a key witness for this particular claim that there's this woman in the polka doc dress who might have been some sort

[00:46:27] of co-conspirator.

[00:46:30] And she, she allegedly says that this woman came out and says, we shot him, we shot Senator Kennedy.

[00:46:38] I know you're saying a few things there. Do you have any thoughts about that, the woman in the polka doc dress.

[00:46:44] I'm kind of with you. I'm kind of on the same train where I'm like, I'm just still unclear on her intent.

[00:46:52] I'm not, I'm not, I don't feel like all of her that she, the filmmakers meant to get all theatrical I don't think they're doing kabuki theater but it's also tough to say.

[00:47:05] And it's like a spotter or partnering crime on this whole deal it's just very still very mysterious and it just makes you wonder is like, how would you as a witness who had seen stuff like this been able to alert the authorities in time.

[00:47:22] I, I read a couple articles about this one. Well, I read like one big article about the whole RFT thing. And they gave an ex, a potential explanation that, you know, there are apparently other witnesses who were also there when the polka doc dress woman said we shot him we shot him and they say that she never said we shot him.

[00:47:46] But assuming the let's assume her her story is true that she actually did hear the woman say we shot him we shot Kennedy.

[00:47:55] This this passage from this article I think is really, I think sums up one of my potential explanations for this and it says, but even if Serrano heard correctly, another explanation is possible without resorting to speculations about conspiracies.

[00:48:10] I also have been witness to an innocent cry of we, I e the American people shot Kennedy, a natural response reflecting the intense concern Americans had at the time to the growing senseless violence that have become a societal phenomenon during the 1960s.

[00:48:26] And just being that what this polka. dress woman might be pro like screaming where she runs out is, is we shot him as an we the American people.

[00:48:36] got him. What are you thoughts on that? I'm definitely I could go

[00:48:40] probably so many ways with that.

[00:48:42] Yeah, it's to me, it seems like it's a possibility. Like that's,

[00:48:47] that's something I could see happening. And especially when when

[00:48:50] you're in the moment in the heat of the moment, when you just watched

[00:48:53] the senator get shot. Yeah, you're not going to react in super

[00:48:58] predictable ways, right? You're gonna just kind of react how you

[00:49:00] react. And so that might be something you say as you run out,

[00:49:04] you're like, Oh, my God, we killed him. When you're not actually

[00:49:07] saying I conspired to murder the senator, what you're actually

[00:49:10] saying is, is we the American people, because of our violent

[00:49:15] culture have killed him. It's almost like a philosophical

[00:49:18] statement. I don't know if that's actually what happened, but

[00:49:20] it's, I think it's, it's an interesting thought. It's tough to

[00:49:23] say to you know, just post, you know, 70s, so forth where we're

[00:49:29] having people. I mean, we see today still where people are

[00:49:33] taking statements out of contacts and it's like, okay, the

[00:49:37] clickbait headline might read that way, but that's not what

[00:49:39] they actually said. Regardless of their eventual addressing that

[00:49:43] and excuse. I'm very unclear on it. I

[00:49:48] Yeah, yeah, and I think that's, I think that's the my thought is

[00:49:53] that I think we just don't know. I don't think we have a ton

[00:49:56] of information here. Yeah, like,

[00:49:58] a sworn someone closer to them, maybe. Yes. Yeah, it's

[00:50:03] not like we have like a sworn affidavit from a woman saying,

[00:50:06] Senator Kennedy, you know, we have a thing with Oswald, we're

[00:50:10] still on. Yeah, we have a state on people and that. Yeah, we

[00:50:13] have a statement that somebody heard outside the hotel, really

[00:50:17] briefly, that they may have totally misremembered. You know,

[00:50:20] so and we don't know this. If this person knew them personally,

[00:50:26] or we're just, you know, appear. Yeah, yeah, so. Yeah, so

[00:50:31] that was Oh, and one thing I wanted to add on this one too, is I

[00:50:35] think that when something very significant happens, like the

[00:50:39] assassination of a presidential candidate like that, there can

[00:50:43] be this tendency to look back at the event and identify weird

[00:50:47] things that happened. And say, that's weird. Why didn't it

[00:50:51] happen on the specific day that that horrible event happened.

[00:50:55] So I don't know if you know about this, this one, but the

[00:50:58] there was this, I think she's called the Babushka woman. And it

[00:51:02] was on the day that JFK was assassinated. There was this

[00:51:05] woman wearing a like headscarf, I think it called the Babushka,

[00:51:09] which is why she gets that name. And just kind of like walking

[00:51:12] around in weird ways, and it's all on film and you can watch it.

[00:51:15] Oh, wow. And yeah, and a lot of people have pointed to this and

[00:51:19] they're kind of like, Oh, what's going on here? blah, blah, blah.

[00:51:22] But the thing I think people neglect is that weird shit happens

[00:51:27] all the time, and we just ignore it because it's just life. And

[00:51:31] then just when it happens to be that something crazy happens,

[00:51:35] it can be easy to look back at that weird stuff that is a daily

[00:51:39] occurrence, and then just grab it and be like, okay, something

[00:51:43] weird is happening here. When maybe it's not, and maybe it's

[00:51:46] just another day of weird stuff happening, you know. And so

[00:51:51] that's my that's one of my thoughts with like the polka dot

[00:51:53] dress woman is maybe just this was a weird thing that somebody

[00:51:57] said when they ran out while they were kind of probably adrenaline

[00:52:02] pumping through their veins. And we don't actually know why. And

[00:52:06] it's not necessarily because they were a co-conspirator in the

[00:52:08] murder.

[00:52:09] Yeah. And this is the kind of stuff where it's like, it's so

[00:52:17] frustrating because you want some follow up and they only know

[00:52:21] what they know, which is not a full story.

[00:52:24] Yeah, yeah, not too. We wish we had a super accurate

[00:52:30] reconstruction of all the events that we could just look

[00:52:33] through. But unfortunately, we have stories here. There. Yeah,

[00:52:37] and that's really it. And, you know, we have some film because

[00:52:41] they were people on site.

[00:52:42] Long it took to decipher biggie and Tupac's murders.

[00:52:46] Yeah, yeah, I don't know if you read that in the news that

[00:52:50] somebody got arrested for Tupac's murder. Yeah, but I saw a

[00:52:53] more recent one on how there was like a gangbanger, then like

[00:52:57] the initial reports were true that there were some bad cops who

[00:53:00] had sent their own literal kill squad and it's like, man, it's

[00:53:04] like, but yeah, this this was lost to time because so not just

[00:53:11] the blue wall and other red tape but also just kind of I think

[00:53:17] like Kennedy people loved going into Wonderland. You could.

[00:53:22] Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's some things get lost because yeah,

[00:53:27] that red tape, the blue wall, whatever you want to call it.

[00:53:30] But also some things just get lost because they're not

[00:53:33] recorded, right? It's it's just something that is somebody sees

[00:53:37] they remember it and we don't really know the details. And so,

[00:53:41] you know, it is what it is. Or in the case of the Babushka woman,

[00:53:45] right, we have this video, but nobody's ever found her, nobody's

[00:53:48] ever interviewed her. So the the underlying facts are.

[00:53:52] I've been working up that footage. Yeah. Well, I think people

[00:53:57] were just filming that day because he was driving by. But yeah,

[00:54:02] I would like to show maybe chapters of this. If someone

[00:54:06] asked me to intern at a history class, I think you could show

[00:54:09] part of RFK and open up food for thought. Because there's

[00:54:13] definitely, like you say, compared to JFK, where you're seeing

[00:54:18] some footage, but the most part, it's just Oliver Stone on his

[00:54:21] high horse. I do feel like the RFK would just have like you could

[00:54:24] divide it into like a five five parts like you could chop it up

[00:54:29] for people and say, okay, let's cover this part of the issue.

[00:54:32] Okay, what were your thoughts on this, right? An essay on this.

[00:54:35] Prompt more research prompt more storytelling prompt everyone to

[00:54:40] be a better researcher, even a journalist.

[00:54:42] Yeah, and and I will say with this one, yeah, like what you're

[00:54:48] saying is true. I think there's some interesting recounting of

[00:54:51] the events in here. I think that

[00:54:53] housing, like I said, which were like, okay, you lost me there.

[00:54:58] The sizing. Yeah, they lost me there for sure. But but there

[00:55:01] is definitely a decent, you know, retelling of the events here

[00:55:05] in a certain way. And I don't think that you'll necessarily

[00:55:08] come away with from this one with a warped perspective on what

[00:55:13] happened. I think that they did a relatively decent job of

[00:55:17] laying out here are some weird inconsistencies that we found.

[00:55:21] But that I don't think that they're outright misleading you

[00:55:25] about the situation, whereas I thought they were a few times

[00:55:28] cool. Yeah, whereas I thought they were a couple of times at

[00:55:32] least with Oliver Stone, where I do think that he was misleading

[00:55:36] you a little bit on the history.

[00:55:39] Mm hmm. He was too much in love with the sound of his own

[00:55:42] voice. Yeah, or you know, he he really wanted to have this

[00:55:47] narrative. And I think there was some selective choosing of

[00:55:51] facts, you know, there we brought up the the National Security

[00:55:56] Memorandum 263 or whatever, right? But we didn't clarify that

[00:56:01] actually the picture was a little more complicated. And we're

[00:56:03] not really sure what that document means given that context.

[00:56:08] Yeah, I would like a little more detail on that too. Mm hmm.

[00:56:13] Yeah, but this this RFK documentary, I didn't feel that

[00:56:16] that way. I think they did a relatively good job of of

[00:56:19] showing you, okay, here are some things that we view as

[00:56:22] inconsistencies without necessarily totally presenting a

[00:56:26] different picture of what actually occurred. I couldn't say

[00:56:29] it better. Yep. Yeah. All right. But man, I, there's much fun

[00:56:38] going down the rabbit hole because I can't think of any

[00:56:41] history show or podcast that's covered this. I can't think of

[00:56:44] any other show or it's like, they want to talk about this

[00:56:47] was don't get me wrong. We talk about all kinds of true crime,

[00:56:50] especially true crime and history podcast, but it's I think

[00:56:54] these were an interesting thing to plan for because it was just

[00:56:58] kind of the ship wrote itself. And then some then there was like

[00:57:02] still a bit of other stuff and was like, hmm, maybe I got you

[00:57:05] kind of motivated in a good way, where just like, I kind of

[00:57:08] want to do an answer to this. Yeah. That's kind of I felt that I

[00:57:13] almost felt like it was it was a puzzle, you know, and I hadn't

[00:57:16] JFK and RFK like conspiracy theories, they were not really

[00:57:21] something I ever got into personally. For me, I was kind of

[00:57:24] like, you know, I don't I just hadn't look into it. And it was

[00:57:28] interesting, you know, because you get like a negative

[00:57:31] information that and you're like, okay, that genuinely does

[00:57:33] sound weird. And then you go digging, you're like, okay, well,

[00:57:36] what what is like the the other side like what is like the

[00:57:40] Warren Commission narrative on this, you know, like what is the

[00:57:42] mainstream narrative on this? And you dig a little deeper and

[00:57:47] you find okay, well, they're saying this and, you know, then

[00:57:50] the conspiracy kind of narrative says this. And you kind of

[00:57:53] just keep digging and you, you know, you can't like you're

[00:57:57] saying you can't put together a full picture of what's going on.

[00:58:01] But you can get a little bit of a better understanding when for

[00:58:04] me personally, I didn't really know why people thought this was

[00:58:07] a conspiracy. I wasn't really sure I'd heard some weird things

[00:58:10] I was kind of in reference to where I was just like, yeah, what?

[00:58:13] Yeah, there's kind of like some of the rock star stories in a

[00:58:17] way, like someone so did that at a party one time. Oh my God,

[00:58:20] who else was there? Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, I agree, I thought

[00:58:25] it was kind of fun to just go down the rabbit hole a little bit

[00:58:28] on this totally well worth it. And, you know, one's pretty

[00:58:33] accessible, the other's somewhat obscure. So it really was a

[00:58:38] good mixture. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

[00:58:41] To go my dude, you want to promote almost presidents real

[00:58:44] fast? Yeah, so, you know, obviously we came out in the past,

[00:58:47] but if you haven't heard of us before, we are the almost

[00:58:50] president's podcast. We talk about almost presidents, we talk

[00:58:54] about people who tried to campaign for the presidency and

[00:58:58] failed. We are not interested in anyone who succeeded. We throw

[00:59:02] them out. You've heard all those stories. You want to hear

[00:59:04] about the underdog? Yeah, we're over it. Yep. We like to we

[00:59:08] like to say that we're the only podcast that talks about

[00:59:10] history from the perspective of the losers, which is, you know,

[00:59:12] just a fun little saying for us. But other than that, you know,

[00:59:15] other than talking about that that history, we also do cover

[00:59:19] kind of the ongoing presidential campaigns and races. So we've

[00:59:23] done some coverage of the Republican debates. We've done

[00:59:26] some just general coverage of Republican, the Republican

[00:59:29] campaign, as well as covering in relatively good detail,

[00:59:32] specifically the DeSantis campaign. Yeah. So yeah, so we got

[00:59:37] some some good stuff for you there. If you're interested

[00:59:40] specifically in the RFK stuff, we did a whole series about

[00:59:43] Bobby Kennedy. Yes, you did. And we finished that up in the

[00:59:47] summer in, I think June or July, I can't remember now off the

[00:59:50] top of my head when the last episode was. But yeah, so we

[00:59:54] finished that one up and you can listen to the whole you can

[00:59:56] binge it if you want. It's like 12 episodes long. And yeah,

[01:00:01] that's our show. I love who I think it's one of your

[01:00:04] relatives who also does the intro. I love how it's like a

[01:00:08] morning class. Yeah. Yeah, we got a little a neat little

[01:00:12] intro. It just gets into the mood. Just you're pumped up is

[01:00:15] like, okay, we're gonna listen to stuff that is interesting. It

[01:00:19] isn't having a substitute teacher. Have us go to sleep.

[01:00:22] Yeah, yeah, true. Yeah. So that's our show where you can find

[01:00:28] little history, little politics, that type of thing. Yeah,

[01:00:30] keep promoting other stories and keep paying yourself on the

[01:00:35] back. You know, I think it is gonna make a difference if more

[01:00:38] people try and do a history podcast and try. I think every

[01:00:41] little voice helps. Because you look at some of the true

[01:00:45] crime podcasts. And I know there was like a true crime con

[01:00:48] and a lot of other guys have been in it for a while, including

[01:00:51] nefarious nightmare noted how a lot of the ones that and nobody

[01:00:54] no crime. I'm not sure if you heard any either of those, but

[01:00:56] they both gave good tips and tricks on much like with history,

[01:01:01] you know, reach out to people. If you want to add actual

[01:01:04] credibility to your material, don't overdramatize you're not

[01:01:07] doing anyone including the victims any favors. And if there's

[01:01:12] an active case that you're covering cease immediately, like

[01:01:15] just wait for the verdict. So you don't unintentionally

[01:01:17] influence social media or the jury. Yeah, that's a whole world

[01:01:21] that. But some of them go into history as well, where they're

[01:01:25] talking about history of serial killings or political scandals

[01:01:30] and a few bad apples was another one that was very alarming.

[01:01:34] Like, Oh my God, a crime happened here in El Paso or in

[01:01:37] Vancouver. Oh my word. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:01:43] But yeah. So if you want to check out our podcast, the

[01:01:45] almost president's podcast on usually we're on Spotify. We're

[01:01:48] also generally anywhere you could get your podcast to win it

[01:01:51] guys. Yep, for sure. Right now we're doing Samuel Tilden, which

[01:01:55] is the election of 1876, the one that became very disputed. It

[01:01:59] actually was very important for precedent in the 2020 election

[01:02:04] for how that was dealt with. So, you know, some interesting

[01:02:07] relevant stuff there, I guess, the 19th election. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:12] So that's a that's our that's our show. Definitely check us out.

[01:02:15] And yeah, thanks so much for having us on cam in time, where I

[01:02:19] guess, I guess me on but me as a representative of the show.

[01:02:23] What you do? I applaud what Ryan does. And I like just the back

[01:02:27] and forth. It's no bicker ring. It's it's an open panel, really.

[01:02:30] Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks, ma'am. We'll return after

[01:02:35] these messages.

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