Star Wars: Young Jedi Knights/New Jedi Order Books Era Overview

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information. So welcome gang again another week of the May month of Star Wars. Jeremy from the new paranormal and some of his other fun music ranking shows suggested this. We had trouble aligning our schedules because we're just always crazy busy and got crazy stuff happening in our lives.

[00:00:30] I got work, he's got family, I get it. So you may hear him in the rest of this episode. We got some other samples you'll hear throughout the episode with Josh talking about his take on Young Jedi Knights as well as Tom and James talking about what the Heir to the Empire trilogy did differently as we were introducing Mike to it because he was wondering about where Star Wars went after the original trilogy.

[00:02:19] Marvel from the 70s and 80s. Yes. Marvel did more to flesh out the Star Wars universe as we know it more than anybody else could. People who worked on it, the writers, the artists, the whole, they had a direct line to George Lucas or they had his blessing to create some of the best bits of tension too.

[00:02:49] They had some weird characters, like the giant green rabbit, which I could take or leave, but there was one, before I stopped collecting it, there was one issue where Luke was falling in love with somebody, and they were rebel pilots, and they were in TIE fighters, so they could disguise themselves.

[00:03:10] And for some reason, Luke's TIE fighter, Ganners went out or whatever, so he had to use the force, and he used the force to kill the woman that he was falling in love with. Holy shit. You're making me wish they would rescore this with Jefferson Starship's White Rabbit. That was such a shock, and I didn't get to see much more after that, but after that, there was an entire issue where Luke was having to deal with the aftermath of that.

[00:03:39] And when I was elected 11 or 12, that was heavy shit. That was – Yeah. Yeah. Because we were told – because I grew up with Luke Skywalker being the guy who always does the right thing, the ultimate hero. And then – The Jesus of the dead. Yeah. But then he does something like this, and only because he saw that she was evil. She was actually the spy for the Empire, it turns out.

[00:04:08] But he didn't know that until much later. Yeah. Mary Jane and Stephanie playing for a fool. Yeah. But the series, the comic series, fantastic. I can't recommend it enough for any Star Wars man. Yeah. You can thank Archie Goodwin for those – for the first couple of issues that they did. That, Shadows of the Empire. Yeah. All the – Yeah. Yes.

[00:04:33] He was the guy who did the – started the Marvel series out in 77, 78. Yeah. And when they started doing that, they started to bring in more characters. Like you said, there were some characters I loved. Like, you know, there was a – there was Rick Ole, who was the – Rick Olie, Captain Obvious. Yeah. Yeah. Who was like the stand-in for Han Solo and his – Oh, wow.

[00:05:01] His purple-skinned, you know, female pilot, Danny, who's had the hots for Luke. And – Oh, damn. Yeah. There was a lot of characters in those books, Tom, that should have been brought to – Yeah. Should have been brought to the table if they were to do – you know, if they were going to do another series. Well, instead they brought the cloned Emperor plot, but they didn't execute it. Yeah. But the thing was with those Marvel issues, I have like a whole bunch of them that I saved.

[00:05:30] And there's one issue that was really good was where they were trying to find Wedge. Do you remember that? Yeah. Wedge, instead of fleeing – instead of going off and being with the Rebel fleet, they wrote it where Wedge and Wes Janson were shot – were shot down. And Wes got slaughtered by a wampa. And what happened was – Yeah. Yeah. They did this whole thing, and I'm like, okay, I'm trying to get the gist of this. You know, I have it.

[00:05:58] It's a picture of Wedge with like wampa claws coming after him. He has a blaster and he's like scared shitless. In Star Wars Tells? No. This was an actual comic book. Like 83, 84. Oh, shit. Because I remember that. The back had shit in common. Did Luke use Force Hill on him? No. The funny thing is they find an abandoned freighter, him, Princess Leia, and some other guy.

[00:06:27] And they find this abandoned freighter, and they're looking through the logbook what Wedge had recorded. And they think Wedge is dead. He's actually outside waiting for them and stuff like that. It's a really good – it's a really good, good, you know, thing to watch, to read. Because I was like engrossed in it. I was like, you know, first time they kind of shift off the character, the main characters for Wedge, you know. Lovely. Getting back to Tom's thing about the Marvel comic books.

[00:06:55] Tom, like you said, it was more a fleshed out line of comics, you know, not like Dark Horse. This was more, you know, up to our speed. Dark Horse. And it was far more creative than any Star Wars comic books I've seen. You know, I think you're right. I think that is the era that has pretty much actually sustained.

[00:07:20] Like both Dark Horse – you know, Dark Horse was one thing where it was kind of like a pulp novels. And these new ones have kind of just been kind of side scrolls, side quests. Well, you know, there's the one now where Luke got the yellow lightsaber, which explains a lot of things, you know. How Ahsoka gets it. Yeah, so. Touched on a few lesser known things and then some things that I just think were important for me.

[00:07:48] On the lesser known, you touched on – what was it? The new Jedi. See, I liked that. It was weird. It was different. Like I know that not everyone likes it. But after a certain point, it's like how long – how many times can we just fight the Empire again or the Emperor? It's just – Word. Yeah. So I enjoyed that. But I know that's kind of a divisive series. I just didn't like the writing, but I get it. It did have new enemies. They were not all winners, those books.

[00:08:16] But I like the overall idea of it, I guess. Other things. I always loved the world building and the lore. Like that's what got me into Star Wars to begin with. And one of the – I mean just the original movies with the lived-in feeling of everything. Everything was just so dirty and gross. It just – it didn't even really need a lot of explanation. You just felt like you understood it just by the visuals. Young Jedi Knights was one of my favorite series when I was a preteen.

[00:08:45] When I was back – when I used to read all the Star Wars books, which are now Expanded Universe. I can't tell you much that this is me off. But Young Jedi Knights should have been what the sequel trilogy ended up being. It should have been – there's three or four books of it, so it would have been a perfect trilogy. And it would have been such a better storyline than the freaking Kylo Ren pussy bullshit. Jaina and Jacen were much better characters. And the fact that Jacen goes dark side and freaking fights Luke eventually is amazing.

[00:09:15] That should have been the storyline. They tried copying off it for the sequel trilogy, but it just doesn't work. It should have been the original storyline. Plus Chewbacca had it, kid. How cool is that? Chewbacca got some nookie. Like that's amazing. And there was another character too that was Rodian or whatever. I also don't know where he was. But Young Jedi Knights needs its own movies. I'll say it once. I'll say it again. In this case, yeah.

[00:09:39] Young Jedi Knights came out and that was – that was definitely my intro to – I hadn't read Dark Empire comic book yet. And so I knew about Jason and Jaina Solo, who are the kids of Han Solo and Leia Skywalker, right after Return of the Jedi. It's many years after. So you would have already had Heir to the Empire, then Dark Empire. So yeah, we're just starting this somewhere. It's a little in between there and Luke starting a Jedi temple.

[00:10:08] It was published between 1995 to 1998. I definitely read some of the first few books. They were by Rebecca Moesta, who you would know from – she's the wife of co-author Kevin J. Anderson. And Kevin J. Anderson is a hero at this point. He's doing all kinds of different stuff. And again, they're all both accomplished in their own right.

[00:10:34] You know, Kevin did some X-Files tie-ins as well as wrote on the Dune books and has done some of his own original fiction. And Rebecca has done some of her own material as well. And these books were republished in sci-fi book club titles. There was The Rise of the Shadow Academy, The Fall of the Diversity Alliance, Under Black Sun, Jedi Shadow, and Jedi Sub-Wise. So yeah, that's right. The early 2000s, I would read some of this. My mother was a bit new.

[00:11:02] I liked Star Wars and was always buying me books for this because she wanted us to read. And so I was like, how would I get people to read sequels to popular movies even better? So I read some of them. They were just okay. They ranged for me between a 5 to 6 out of 10. They had some fun inside jokes. There was a pilot who basically his spaceship designation title was like an in-joke to Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

[00:11:32] There was even a few other people who had first appeared in the original Marvel Star Wars books, believe it or not. That's a TIE Fighter pilot. It was combined with that. But yeah, with the continuity displayed here on the Star Wars fandom site, Wikipedia, they describe it best.

[00:11:56] But Jaina takes after her dad, is more brash and mechanically inclined, while Jason is more contemplative, attuned to nature and has a corny sense of humor. There were 14 books and there were other characters. There was Lobaka. Yes. A Wookiee Jedi Knight. Nephew of Chewie. And there was Tino Kaa. There was Anrich Thule. These appear in the New Jedi.

[00:12:25] So that's just it. I wasn't a New Jedi Order guy. That just got way too convoluted. And I did not like the using Vong, as Josh offers a defense for. But yeah, I, I, these were okay after school specials. This was literally like PBS meets Star Wars tell versus trying to be a big giant epic. But yeah, then they had the Jedi Academy.

[00:12:51] You know, they've already had other, Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy was probably the way more superior stuff. Because I liked how they illustrate all the different pirates and the Black Sun from the little syndicate. Showing how they have bigger weapons than even the Empire's Death Star. But yeah, after this, then they follow it up with stuff. That's where I get lost. I don't keep up with this, but, and it's kind of meh when I read some of it. There's Fate of the Jedi.

[00:13:20] There's, there's a, some other ones that there's the Galaxy of Fear books and the Dark Nest trilogy. That's where I'm lost. I'm like, okay, losing me. It just, it feels like a bad B movies. But Galaxy of Fear was meant for younger author readers.

[00:13:42] But yeah, when did, yeah, the Dark Nest trilogy is like, that just felt like a bad version of Starship Troopers meets some other kind of alien knockoff. I'm mixed in with some Star Wars characters, but it was a follow-up to the new Jedi Order books. And it's before Legacy of the Force. And that's where it gets so distorted.

[00:14:09] And yeah, Fate of the Jedi has been some of the more recent stuff. Those are all throughout the 2000s. And at that point, I'm like, I just want to play the video games, see some of the cartoons that I may or may not care for. But I just rather rewatch the Star Wars movies and read the earlier books and even some of the comics that are questionable in terms of whether they're canon or not. I don't go by Disney rules here, guys. I go by on whether it's good or bad.

[00:14:39] But yeah, Young Jedi Knights, I think some of them are all right. Definitely Harrods of the Force and Shadow Academy. I don't recall any of the kids being annoying. That was a refreshing... And even though it's a little formulaic, like they give them each something to do. Luke is still well-balanced and characterized, unlike in The Last Jedi. Fuck that trash fest.

[00:15:04] And I like how they just handle some of the returning bounty hunters. They can attack the temple and they have retreats. Again, it's just solid world building. It's just... It's kind of more just leftovers. It's decent. They're like... Some of them I would probably give a 7 out of 10, but for the most part, it's decent. It's not... It's passable.

[00:15:32] But yeah, nothing to do with the Young Jedi Adventures or any of those other schlocky, cheap Disney XD cartoons or any of that. It's all just about... You know, you can... This is the beauty of Star Wars that I wish more people would do. You can decide what is or isn't canon at this point. Where does the story start? Do you like these kinds of books? Do you like these kinds of comics? For me, I had to stop with... I read some of these, but I prefer to stop with...

[00:16:02] Dark Empire. That is where it ends for me as the best possible conclusion. You know, Heirs of the Empire raised the bar by showing you could expand the world and also have new recurring villains. Shadows of the Empire was an epic story that would have been a worthy movie. It's just... It came out years later after Empire and Return of the Jedi and just blows your mind. It's like, guys, this is what happens in between. This is an exciting journey in its own right. And...

[00:16:28] You know, if you even prefer the prequels or the sequels, there's plenty of other tie-in stuff with that too. So... I think people don't realize how good they have it. We can be mad... Don't get me wrong. There's plenty of stuff I hate about how Disney's handled it, but there is still... You can remember the good stuff instead of getting all bogged down in the negatives. So... Take that with a grain of salt. So, listen to some other clips here as we close out the show. And thanks for tuning in to this brief review.

[00:16:56] And enjoy the rest of the Star Wars deep discussions. We've got everything on here that we've discussed this month. We've discussed some awesome comic books and some other lesser-known material. So, thanks for joining in. The books that were set immediately after Return of the Jedi. Those... Bangers. Those... Took... I remember getting them and rushing out to get them when they came out in paperback.

[00:17:25] And I read the first one, Aird's the Empire, and it was like, my God. And look... Not only are they using the same characters that I grew up with, but they're introducing so many more. And it fits. That's, I think, the major problem with a lot of Star Wars stuff coming out right now. You can kind of make it fit. You can kind of push it and negle it and say, oh, this is past the tier and past the tier. The Timothy Zahn books. Although magic.

[00:17:55] From the word go. Tom, what's his last name again? Zahn. Like... Z-O-N-N. Z-A-H-N. Z-A-H-N. Z-A-H-N. Z-A-H-N. Z-A-H-N. Z-A-H-N. He and Kevin J. Anderson have written for very soon. He's writing modern ones, too. Yeah. Oh, by the way, they brought him back. They brought him back. But he fleshed out the whole Coruscant saga, as well as how the Empire functioned. The Mary Jane thing I thought was weak. Blasphemy. I know.

[00:18:25] Blasphemy. It was just so, like... It works in Dark Empire, but... There's a chick that... Yeah. you know she's a redhead and i have a thing for redhead yeah it can't be a woman it has at least you're honest but you remember it's it uh i think i know i'm just trying to be a spoiler but there's a there's a spoiler for a 40 year old book uh there's a part uh where he is attacking coruscant by this i mean thrawn by firing basically asteroids like that's the most devastating

[00:18:55] way that's used in the modern ones in uh uh the what are those cinematic sci-fi like uh the expanse yeah yeah oh my god that's true yeah good idea and it was used in starship troopers yes yeah but that's a sad one kind of came into that whole design series it's like he's the big baddie now he's not force sensitive they've got joris seaboth as the as the one who's gonna you know

[00:19:25] the bat the force yeah but thrawn is like this like like military tactician and the way they've done him in ahsoka and the way they did him in rebels was perfect i agree you know i see a lot of people complaining oh you don't see much i'm like well same thing with dark vader you don't see much of him when he's first introduced because that's what's creepy about him you don't know what he's thinking the thing is he's pulling the strings that's what uh he's pulling the strings behind

[00:19:53] the scenes i'm cool with any villain as long as yeah i feel like they are involved in the scene and it's not just an actor hamming it up for shits and goes i i like i hate it when i see a western and i don't understand why the outlaw is like a piece of shit i want to understand you know did the other guy sleep with his wife did he get left for dead during the civil war i want to know what what's the mechanism of them and if it's just i'm evil and i want to rape and pillage one's like

[00:20:21] that doesn't mean anything i have a i have a quick question you need the throng series and the aftermath trilogy those six books that's the essential is that what you're talking about tom so it's the first three yeah the first three from the dark ages from the aftermath is sloppy seconds aftermath i like i mean i read i've read the first of the three it was a good trilogy but the original one is the one he wrote that's now non-canon the and that's the ones that they're taking all the

[00:20:49] modern felony ideas from but it's some mix three books right the throng series yeah okay it's air to the empire is that right so yeah yeah correct yep okay aftermath for dessert evidently okay not really i'm just kidding uh but it does stink how they had to kind of that's how they kind of got off on the wrong foot when they were trying to divide it saying this is canon that's not canon it's

[00:21:16] like let them decide what's canon well students are different writers too okay yeah i'm right i get that idea of disney coming in i'm not pro disney but it was absurd and they're this is what comics have to do all the time right that's all the very yeah um things because things get insane and you want to bring in new readers new watchers new listeners whatever the case may be so you consolidate and then it expands you consolidate so as much as i don't like disney i actually had no

[00:21:43] problem with them being like fuck it canon starts now because now i'm gonna be like good now i know everything is canon whereas before you had to read some pretty shitty books to be honest yeah like i said there were some rather adult stuff in some of the x-wing novels where i'm like this feels like an after-school special these guys are getting all personal they're having sex they're talking about donuts and other stuff and star wars what okay they're alcoholic right and luke drinks on hot

[00:22:10] what the hell is that all about all right when he's got shot down then burn victims and all that shit oh my god it's a firefighter special yeah no no the one jedi got burned and yeah i think that's where nicholas cage comes in and says how to get burned so you want to be ghost rider well that's mine oh there you go the force is strong with ghost

[00:22:37] so this has been a delight all uh cliff was even talking off air how commanded cocker is totally star wars inspired i mean wing commander alone we'll return after these messages we got a 90 minute weekly shack stop it's growing all over the world find it at 2 p.m

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