Oliver Stone's Drug Cartel Trilogy: Midnight Express, Scarface and Savages

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information. So I went and I wrote screenplays every year in the belief that a good story would lead finally to a chance to direct, which it did. I mean, obviously, Midnight Express was for another director as was Scarface. But I learned a lot on those films.

[00:00:26] Scarface, for example, I was on the set every day pretty much for six months. It went on and on. But I learned a lot by watching. If you keep your eyes open on a set, you'll learn. But I kept writing. I have to emphasize that writing is very important. Well, I'm known for, I guess, some hard-hitting contemporary films, but I also was interested in Westerns and classical history. And I did all forms of screenwriting.

[00:00:54] Some of these films are crime films. Some of them are about finance, some about Wall Street, some about war, and some about presidents. So, you know, this is all, I'm charting my growth of consciousness as I get older. I think that was what was going on, trying to know more about the subject matter. And being curious about not only the world around me, but my own consciousness of it.

[00:01:17] It took me a while to learn a lot. I started to do documentaries later in my life, and in addition to film. I can't speak for anyone else but myself, and the subjects I chose were always difficult. I don't remember. I mean, you realize a platoon has turned down ten years worth of rejections. And so was The Born on the Fourth of July, which is also about a Vietnam veteran.

[00:01:40] These subjects were taboo in a way. They were realistic looks at the war, not the American militarism celebration of heroes and so forth. This is another style. I've always had resistance. JFK was an extremely complicated case, bringing miles of research, years into perspective in a three-hour and eight-minute movie.

[00:02:06] In other words, I think some of me likes the challenge. You just climb the higher mountain. Snowden was impossible because it was in the news, and there was so much controversy. And at the same time, he was considered in the United States a villain by more people than admired him. So it was like 60% against him, 30%. And we did not get any studio financing. That was back to my days on Salvador actually, in the platoon, where I was looking for any kind of money to make the film.

[00:02:35] Snowden was the French and the Germans. So we made the film in Munich. We transferred the location to Germany because we felt we were a little bit worried about the United States' view of this. So everything has been difficult, and I can't ever tell any young filmmaker that it gets easier. You might think it gets easier, but maybe you're not trying your hardest. So every film is a privilege to make and should be treated as such.

[00:03:01] And the budgets are tighter and tighter because drama has declined as a subject of interest in the increasingly corporate fantasy-laden world. And, you know, drama is built on tension and sometimes discomfort. And I think the movie-going experience has been reduced to does it make money or not? And the easiest way to make money is to please them.

[00:03:33] We missed. We loaded. We edited. Sometimes we get so deep into conversation that we have separate segments worthy of their own place in the sun. Here is a reshuffled mini-episode.

[00:03:54] All right, gang. So here we go. You know, I am going straight into it. I am talking about Oliver Stone's, what I like to call his drug cartel trilogy. We're going to go into Midnight Express, the true life prison drama that there's lots of journalism on starring Brad Davis.

[00:04:23] Then we'll go into various audio essays on Scarface. I was able to get so many people on that at different times throughout the course of two years. And it was well worth it. And then we'll end with a brief segment on savages and how that was kind of a fun sleeper hit for Stone as well as divisive and critically derided for other reasons.

[00:04:50] And I touch pretty much all the bases. I don't leave any stone untouched. I really don't. And yes, deliberate pun. It's Oliver Stone. But yeah, you know, originally I wanted to add a few other movies in there. And then I was like, nah, Salvador is a war movie. It's got drug cartels, but it's ultimately more than just about the cartel stuff and more about journalism and covering the battle.

[00:05:18] So I covered that in with some of his other Vietnam stuff because we had already done Tributes to Platoon and another bunch of Vietnam movies. So I was like, hey, if I'm going to keep doing these filmmakers and they're unofficial trilogies or quadruple movies with again, you know, they're only relating that there's themes and you could easily say it's a side spinoff or side movie related to the other movie they did. I compliment one in the other.

[00:05:44] And I'll do that with plenty of other movies he's done, you know, so there'll be plenty to talk about. Talk radio and Wall Street, what have you. Heaven and Earth. And the same thing with many of these other great cohorts, great filmmakers, everyone from Spike Lee and William Britkin to Joe Dante. And, you know, in the past we've done other unofficial trilogies for Sam Raimi and Scorsese and Spielberg.

[00:06:12] So we'll just keep doing some deep, deep cuts for both new and old filmmakers. So enjoy. I'll go ahead and just take a tiny moment to say he does deserve some credit for some of those early screenplays. Conan the Barbarian, Scarface, you know, all decent, but Midnight Express. I just think it's a great film.

[00:06:41] Oh, good point. I forgot he did that. Great screenplay. The Hand was a decent horror remake where he just... Yeah, yeah, sure. Midnight Express stands out for me as a great accomplishment and a great script. Good stuff. But yeah, I'm not going to diss on Oliver Stone too much. I think he's... He may be a little meandering and a little, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I haven't kept up with any of his documentaries.

[00:07:08] It's just been one of those, the last thing I want to do is give someone like Castro or Putin, you know, any attention. He just feels like he's sort of gotten into the mire of himself a bit, but I'm not going to take away from him how much he accomplished and how great some of his films are. He really did a lot of great stuff. It was kind of like with Spike Lee. Like, he had a few rough years and then, you know, he's on fire now. Yeah, Spike Lee's on fire.

[00:07:34] That, you know, that Black Klansman should have won Best Picture for sure. That, and the Five Bloods, I thought was great. I was like, this did not deserve to go straight to Netflix. This was so well thought out. Yeah, yeah. He's definitely on fire. That is also kind of an issue also of, say, that I kind of had with Savages, was that was him kind of trying to also kind of recreate what he did with Salvador and even Scarface to show a bunch of Navy SEALs going after cartels.

[00:08:05] And it didn't feel as nuanced or as fleshed out as those other worlds, you know? Yeah, I would agree with that. I'm going to go with one that's kind of an easygoing crowdblazer that's on the IMDb Top 250. Obviously, we'll deviate from that. I figure this one could be either a classic or you might not like it as much as other people and you just think, it's okay.

[00:08:34] Either way, you're going to probably give it a positive rating, but we never know. Cool Hand Luke. Good movie. I think that's a classic. But what do I know? I've never seen it. I've never even heard of it. Oh, you've never heard of it? I've heard of it. I've just never seen it. It's motivational, just like nothing can touch me with some light off-color humor. I think you're going to like it. It's really, it comes on Turner TCM. It's on my list. Oh, does it? I just haven't seen it yet.

[00:09:04] So, here's another free hour so-called epic that was hated at the time, kind of like now, and then I still see some people saying, oh, it was trash then. So, here is 1983's Scarface. Oh. Oh. So, yeah. I like it. I like it. Well, you can call it a classic, but it was a remake, so. Yeah, I'm going to say no. I'm going to say no.

[00:09:30] How much popularity does that have compared to, like, you know, Godfather or something like that? It's an 8.3, but yeah. I think it's a good movie. Because of the whitewashing, though, I can't call it a classic. And because it took me three viewings to really get my definitive opinion. So, I think that the movie could be considered a classic in the vein that it's a cult classic. People adore and love this movie. It's a Miami classic. There you go. Yeah, but for me, no, it's not a classic. No. I always remember Michelle Piper.

[00:10:00] Can we just stop saying fuck so much? That's the main thing I remember. They have the chainsaw scene, I guess, but yeah. Oh, there you go. You're going to pull out a wound. Yeah. Oh, man. We've been talking about doing more filmmaker specials, and I've done this before. Like, when David Mamet and LeMay worked together on The Verdict, you could have the argument, whose movie is it more? You could do this also with Scarface.

[00:10:30] Is it more De Palma's vision? Or is it more? I get more of Oliver Stone's angry voice at times. I'm thinking more Oliver Stone. That's him on cocaine snorting and talking about facts. Yeah. But De Palma is doing all the giallo type style that he likes to do. You know, the Hitchcock movie. I love his movies. They blow out. I mean, this is one example. Dressed to Kill. He's made so many great movies, Brian De Palma.

[00:10:57] My favorite one he ever did was, well, this is the one I've heard. The Paradise. The Paradise, which was his homage to, you know, if you watch the beginning of it, it's the homage to Touch of Evil with the bomb in the car. Watch that. Watch the beginning of Touch of Evil when they're putting the bomb in the car and the bomb's going, you know. And then you watch where the Juicy Fruits are playing the beach bums. And the Phantom.

[00:11:23] It's like his little thing of like, you know, oh, yeah, I'm going to do a little Hitchcock thing here, you know. Put that there and have you just watch it and, you know, just have you watch it and just, you know, go, oh, I've seen this before in another movie. Oh, yeah. Orson Welles. No, no, no. It's not Hitchcock. It was Orson Welles' Touch of Evil because he was doing Touch of Evil. Yeah. And Dressed to Kill is like his little homage to Hitchcock. Yeah. You know, Blowouts, his homage to Antonioni with Blow Up. Right. You know.

[00:11:53] Retitled. It went out instead of up. Yeah. Yeah. You know. And I mean, that's the great thing about the poem. He was like freaking he has so many movies that should actually be seen more. But unfortunately, people like to look at the first three things he's famous for. And you're like Sorcerer is one. That's such a great movie. I love that movie. I'm glad we talked about it with you, dude. What? Why is Scarface such a crazy divisive movie?

[00:12:22] So this just came up at work because I am not. I'm not. Yeah. Because like I'm the guys I work with love Scarface. That guy, Joe, I told you about my sister's ex-boyfriend loves Scarface. The big long picture of Pacino in the hot tub in his room. I'm like for a guy that doesn't like alternative lifestyles. I find it funny. You have a topless Al Pacino in your room, but whatever. Right. Yeah. I don't care. I don't think that's that great a movie. No, it's fine. I think it's an okay movie.

[00:12:50] I think there's some major issues with like he really seems to like want to hook up with his sister. Yeah. The relationship he has, how he views his sister is very creepy. It does take an Earth-type turn of incest. And he basically kills everybody that helped him for no real reasons. For most of the time for no real reasons. I hated it growing up. Then I came around to it where I'm like, I like the action and the quotes. I just hate getting to that. And then it's so funny.

[00:13:20] The movie itself isn't bad. It's filmed fine. I mean, but the plot point of him and the sister, again, creepy to me. And honestly, his character, I just don't care for. I think it just needed a better director. Brian De Palma is good at style, but he's so oblivious to it. And it talk about a guy. Didn't Brian De Palma do Carlito's Way? Yeah. Okay. I like Carlito's Way. I think it's a much better movie. It's a very similar movie.

[00:13:47] I recommended it to the Scarface guys at work. And one guy started watching it. He's like, it's almost the same movie. It's definitely similar. But I think it's definitely a better movie. And the guy doesn't want to sleep with his sister. So there's that. That makes a difference. Yeah. But I do think Carlito's Way is the better of the two movies. But I can't think of any other filmmaker who has had a movie that one minute they tell, that's the worst movie of your career. Then they're like, oh, it's such a good movie on your resume.

[00:14:14] And then now there's people who you can't ever get a clear consensus. There's people who love anything gangster or action related. And then you get people who like the Shakespearean themes. Then there's others. I'm kind of in that boat where I think there's some good stuff. But there's also a lot of 80s junk that didn't age well in it. And it's just funny to me. I mean, there's plenty of people. I think the problem is it got overrated too quickly.

[00:14:44] And then most of the people showing up were the guys who were into trashy movies. Like just core fanatics and all that. You know what? You know what it feels like? It feels like it feels like it was. It feels like the movie Maniac. Yes. Oh, my God. It feels like it feels like that B movie. Mm hmm. But it seems like a lot of late 70s movies had that like gritty, dirty gorilla feel to it. You know? Mm hmm. I think it was kind of the thing back then. It was it was the cool thing. Do man. Yeah.

[00:15:14] And Scarface. But Scarface did have that feel in some scenes, you know? Yeah. And but yeah, no, I'm with you. It's not it's not a movie I think is great. I don't think it's horrible. I think it's like a solid six out of 10. Mm hmm. Maybe just slightly above average. I think he's the least likable character in the guy in the damn thing. Like anyone that's like, oh, I wish I was him. I'm like, what? You wish you were your sister? Like, what? What do you mean? You wish you were him? The guy's a loose cannon. Like if he would have just behaved, he would never got busted or he would never got killed

[00:15:44] rather by the other cartel. Well, and it is so wild. It's like I just I think what would have made it a better movie is just a little more development on the crooked cop subplot, you know, his best friend betraying him. And Stephen Bauer is a good actor who he's apparently a really difficult in that he just he if he doesn't like you, he's not going to get along. But to me, the character of Scarface is so bad that I didn't I did not feel bad when this friend betrayed him.

[00:16:16] Yeah, you know, like like in a lot of mafia movies, when somebody like betrays somebody, you're like, oh, man, it sucks. It's weird. And this one, it's in this one. It's like good. And it's another rare case of where Latino audiences eat it up, even though it's a whitewashed role. It's like they're just like, OK, cool. Italian guy playing a Cuban. Perfect. Let's do it. And then it's just wild how they're doing these accents. But people let it get them get away with it because they're good actors. They said don't worry about it. Don't worry about it.

[00:16:45] People like my cousin right now are probably protesting it, even though they're not Latino. You know, it's interesting to me how for a movie that's so divisive, how it has lasted this long. And it's wild. Well, it's funny because it's not even divisive because of the whitewashing. No, no one even gives it. No one even gives that a second thought. Not nowadays. I think in a way, though, it's lucky enough because. Just follow me on this.

[00:17:15] It's going to be kind of a weird trip. But I think it's OK. Most people were OK, even if they're Latino, with Pacino playing the character because number one, he's Al Pacino. Number two, he's like you said, he's Italian. And honestly, I'm part Italian. I have family in Italy. Italian, Spanish and a lot of Latino and Hispanic are very similar. And we all know why. Because Spain, you know, colonized a lot of stuff down there.

[00:17:43] So I think him pulling the character off wasn't that wasn't too much of a stretch. They were just joking about the accent and then transition to English. Probably. The accent. Yeah, that would be an issue. But like even like like my buddy Jose's Cuban and he's not a real he's not he doesn't look he doesn't look like what you would consider like Latino. Like he has some features, but he's not like totally like tan all the time or nothing like that. You know what I mean? I agree.

[00:18:11] So I think it's interesting that Robert Lodzha could have had a bigger role. I think my main issue is it's so funny how a lot of these bad guys who are in it, including the skull, end up having bigger roles in Michael Mann movies. And you're just like, I kind of would have liked a little more backstory on them. And it's funny how spinoff books and comics and even a video game sequel have expanded it. But you would have liked that more in the movie itself. And it is so funny how Spielberg apparently directed part of the finale.

[00:18:39] He was on set one day and helped out a buddy. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah. You can thank him for some of those grenade launches. But I just find it interesting how. Yeah. I think it wasn't Mike. Good thing. It wasn't Michael Bay. A plane would have crashed into the set just for no reason. Yeah. There would have been race cars flying around. I think Michelle Pfeiffer is. Transformers. Oh, dear God. Yeah. I think Michelle Pfeiffer is good in it, but she's not expanded upon enough. No. It's just kind of viewed up as property by the protagonists.

[00:19:08] And but it is wild, too, how there's shots that are clearly trying to be like the Godfather. Now, that I would call a good movie because it's just it's everything. It's a turn to the dark side. It's friends close. Enemy's closer. It's a revenge movie. It's not my favorite. Not my favorite mafia movie, though. OK, I agree with I agree that it's a great movie, but it's not like I could sit down and just watch it. I'd probably go with Goodfellas. Oh, there you go.

[00:19:35] See, because Goodfellas shows like the rise of like the younger generation in the mafia. Yeah. And then how they didn't listen to the old guy saying, don't get involved in drugs. You got the boomers. And he did it anyway. And they brought them all that and they took them. They end up taking everybody down. Yeah. Because really, that's what happened was once once the well, I guess. Yeah. Ray Liotta's character would be a boomer by today's standards. So, yeah. I just mean that versus the millennials. And it's just like. Well, kind of. Yeah. But it's like the younger ones are like, hey, we can make more money if we do this.

[00:20:05] And they're like, it's too high profile. Stay away from it. Yeah. Two generations. It's a partial heist movie. And it's not about the actual seeing the heist. And. No, but it talks about. It talks about a legitimately real heist. No. It did happen. Yeah. Which a lot of people don't know that. If you want to know more about the Gambinos and other associates, that's the one. And. Yep. To the movie's credit, we were doing a Scorsese special. We were joking. It's like all these movies are kind of a themed trilogy.

[00:20:32] It's like that's the only one that gets away with a narration. Now, when you see a narration, especially in a crime thriller, you're like. You're like. You've given everything away. What can you do to sustain my interest for the next 40 minutes before I turn this off? You know, it's just everybody did it to death, but it did it so well. Like it broke the rules the right way instead of. Let's just do it just because we're hacks and we have no imagination. Like, no, they thought this out thoroughly.

[00:21:02] So I need to hop on. I need to hop on for work in about five minutes. Okay. Yeah. But I'm going to. So that. So I told you, that was my favorite. That's probably my favorite mafia movie. Donnie Brasco is up there, too. I think that's a great one. Yeah. I almost want to say Reservoir Dogs, but they're not really the mafia. They're just like the crew. Yeah. Gangster subplot. But mainly a high school. Yeah. Yeah. My least favorite. And people give me crap for this all time. The Irishman. Yeah. I hated it, too. It was pretty bad. Great cast.

[00:21:32] Dull as dishwater. And after that movie, every five foot two fat Italian guy I knew was running around saying he painted houses. In fact, everyone I knew was talking about painting houses. I'm like, painting houses. You're out of breath walking to your chair. Yeah. It was boring. It was dull. It was a story I already knew. I've seen documentaries about this guy. It didn't offer anything new. We pretty much know Hoffa was probably killed in Detroit and no one knows where his body is. That's what I thought. And that was the guy that did it.

[00:22:02] Yeah. This has already been talked about. It's 180 documentaries. All the movie was, was, hey, let's get all these guys together in one movie again before they die. Right. That's how I looked at it. It was too long. It was too slow. And it was just boring. Well, not to mention just like you say, didn't bring anything new. And you're just like, okay, tell me something I don't know. And what's funny is Harvey Keitel was playing the most violent guy of that whole thing is

[00:22:29] like, I need to see him with someone's eyeball on his fork or something and nothing. You're just having a good actor talk in the corner. That doesn't do it. That doesn't. And I hate, I hate to say it. I love all those actors, but you look at them and you're like, I don't think those guys can even walk across the room on their own anymore. Let alone do the things you're having them doing this movie. Yeah. I'm not. But it was just, it was just, I thought it was just so dull. Me too.

[00:22:59] And so slow. The sheltering sky moved faster. Oh, and at least I can understand the sheltering sky. And even though it's not my kind of movies, like that says a lot. Yeah. That's a good point. It was like the same thing with Lawrence of Arabia. There's a reason it's four hours long and I watch it every time it's on TV versus this one. Okay. Well, what was the point? You jumped around and then you played around. And now I don't even know what you did.

[00:23:28] And, but it's not Oscar worthy and it's definitely not a good movie. If I have to finish it in two days, that's not good. It's not good. You know what else was a, you know, what else was a very underrated good movie that was kind of mafia orientated. There's a movie with, um, Jason Priestley and one of the guys from animal houses in it too. And so is, uh, he played, but he, he, he does numbers for the mafia, the boss dies and the new boss wants him to earn his keep. Yeah.

[00:23:57] The new boss wants him to earn his keep. And the guy from animal house, the, the one, I think he not out of the other guy, he, uh, is tasked with making him into an assassin, the hit man. I call that movie national lampoons falling down, but it's, it's, it's so, so the guy that died, Ben bought it at a video store used. And that's where I saw it. He's like, you got to watch this. Jason Priestley plays like, uh, um, um, um, like a special needs, like mafia. I go, what are you testing? It's Jason Priestley. How good could it be?

[00:24:27] It's really good. I agree. It, it, it's such an underrated good movie. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Scarface is interesting because I have varied on it throughout the years. Like I started off, I like some of this acting and everything, but I hate the drags. Then I re-see it. I'm like, I really like it more. It's just, it's a little long. Now I like it. It's like, oh, it's totally a party movie. It's imperfect.

[00:24:55] There's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, but it's ultimately a pretty entertaining movie. To me, it's the excess of the eighties. Yes. As told through a, a cute. Okay. So you got to think 1980 is the Mariel boat lift. You know, people were like exiting Cuba and like, they, they went on the shores of Miami. Right. Yes. So what happens here? Okay. There's this guy Tony Montoya. He's, you know, it's, it's, it's fucking Pacino.

[00:25:23] You understand why he's a punk because he's always been, you know, exploited and he used to be a foot soldier for the pastors over there. He, he has, he has nothing but pennies when he comes over here. He gets here. He's a, I think he's a dishwasher. He shows up, shows off. Yeah. Before he get. And so I think a lot of people weren't ready for it, but it is so funny how a lot of the supporting henchmen end up, almost all of them end up having guest starring roles on Miami

[00:25:53] Vice, which is. Oh yeah. Yeah. Excess movie. But it's funny. Like you say, like Oliver was high on drugs and Al Pacino. No, what, you know, was just like, I'll work with you just as long as it's not like the bad experience I've had on cruising, you know? Oh please. No, we want to forget that. Good idea. Terrible execution. Yeah. That and revolution. We want to forget that and revolution. Yeah. And the God himself to blame for that. But an author, author. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:23] The cross my heart and hope to die. We will not mention that one. Um, but Robert Loja is excellent in this. Uh, I love how he's such a, uh, you know, backstabber here, but F Marie Abraham's really good, but, uh, rest in peace to Harris Yulin. Like I will never forget him as the crooked cop in this. And my, my, my, my pal, Tony, no, no relation. And Cloyce and I were writing a, our own crime movie screenplay and we were just getting inspiration.

[00:26:52] So Tony puts on his Blu-ray of Scarface and it has all the extra stuff that's done to embrace it as a party game where you can turn on like the kill counter and F bomb counter. And yeah, that's really awesome. You gotta fuck up Blu-ray. Well, and what's even more awesome is much like the arrow Blu-ray of Robocop. If you want, you can, uh, cut to the safe to air PG rated edit, uh, for TV for scene by scene. And that those are fun.

[00:27:22] It's just like, darn you, you know, before you shot, but that started, where's my cocaine alternate scenes where you don't see the gunshots. You have some stuff, but it's so funny how, yes, freaking Spielberg and De Palma were still just great friends and is like, Hey, can you help me design the finale of this? Steven, how would you film this? Cause you're visiting here. That finale with the coke. Steven needs more credit.

[00:27:50] Cause he, he's obviously he didn't shoot all of it, but he's like, how would you have this establishing shot to show how stealthy these hitmen are coming to kill Tony? Tony's, you know, blinded by all. The coke, the fuel, the rage. It's like, you know, his sister, his sister. I think that's just it. I think that's the only, that's one of two things that make people uncomfortable with the movie besides, you know, Italians playing, you know, South American drug lords.

[00:28:19] I think, I think, I think it's the incest part, even though it's trying to be very Macbethy. And yeah, that scene, the sister between him and the sister, there's kind of this little bit of a have there. You can tell he, yeah, he, he, he doesn't value her as property, but he wants to protect her, but he kind of loves her cause she's the only thing he has left. But I think that's a little realistic cause there are, when you have so much excess and no rules to play by, you know, what's to stop you.

[00:28:48] But at least it didn't go full blown Oedipus, you know, to be fair. Oh no, no. Or like, you know, like, yeah, that, no, that's. It never went into something unpleasant that everyone talked about, like science of the lambs or crying game type crap. It was like, no, it's not, it's not that kind of movie, but I, it is fun if you view it as a stage play and they, I think they have done a few stage plays, believe it or not of this, but there's a reason people have done a comic book and a video game of it. They love the character.

[00:29:18] The character made the movie, Pacino is having a blast. Yes, before he gets typecast and goes the whole I'm Pacino, you know, but I, like you say, it's not perfect, but it's also, it's not a piece of shit. But yeah, when I rewatched it, I, I did see a lot of frames like, oh, that is totally. There's all.

[00:29:43] Yes, he still does a little bit of Hitchcock moments, but there's also moments where DePaul pretty much did a few homages to Coppola as a love letter. It's like, yeah, let me get this similar establishing shot where everyone's meeting together for a meeting. Yeah. Well, Pacino's, Pacino's just such a bastard. I mean, the way he, he gets rid of F. Murray Abraham, you know. Yeah. I'm going to hang you by the helicopter.

[00:30:12] All I got is my money and my balls. You know? Yeah. It's interesting. And it's a shame that it's, it's so wild how, again, it's, this is the in-between segment for DePaul, where he got both hate and fan mail for it at the same time. What do you do with that kind of feedback?

[00:30:42] This is, how do you even interpret that? That's, that's a lot to take in. You know, it's, it's like this, I always said this, like, if you, if you watch the movie, right, and you realize he's coming from nothing, you know, he becomes an underling, then he becomes the boss, and then he becomes, you know, the whole, the whole thing about the, like, you know, the rise to power. I think it's a Thelma and Louise kind of thing. People only know about it because people have referenced the shocking ending so many times. I'm like, yes, but did you actually see the movie?

[00:31:11] I don't want to see the movie. I'm like, no, see the movie, dude. You haven't seen it. You can't talk shit about it if you haven't seen it. I mean, it's the rise of power in the 80s. It's a rise of power. It's, it's a rise of power. It's a, it's a. If you don't know any rules, you're never going to know your end game when you are done with all this kinds of stuff. It's like, yeah, you, you, you play by your own set of rules, which are also illegal.

[00:31:41] And Stephen Bauer, this is the role that made him. Yep. He's the horny, you know, brother who betrays him. He's not a real brother. He's just a, you know, bro as in a friend, my homie. But yeah. And for a whitewash movie, a lot of Latinos, I could not go to a single mall. I kid you not without seeing some Mexican kid wearing a Tony Montana t-shirt. Oh, I saw it all the times during the 90s. They love them. They love it.

[00:32:10] And it's the kind of thing that I feel like critics weren't going to like it anyway. Let's say just the dominoes fell a different way and it didn't have the issues with getting our rating and what have you. Let's just say, let's just say it had all went according to plan. And, you know, even then critics were just very perpetrating a lot of myths, kind of like in the nineties, how they slut shame.

[00:32:38] A lot of actresses in the eighties, they were just so part of the whole Reaganomics, tough on crime bullshit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the thing that gets me the most about this. But like, you know, it's it's released during the height of the Reagan administration. And audiences, they just want to see what the Obama was a good pick because just like his voyeuristic movies, he likes to show you forbidden fruit that everybody, anyone would

[00:33:03] be tempted to look into and see what it's all about and how you could easily be embraced by that seed of corruption. You know? Yeah. It's like he becomes. You know, I mean, well, you've already highlighted some of the other things that guys who did them dirty. That's just it. When all those people who did them dirty were authority figures, you're not going to believe there's any justice in the world if you see that level of corruption. Really?

[00:33:33] I already killed a guy with political associations and I killed a crooked cop who's protecting the other cartel guys. And then I just killed the other guys who are going to come for me anyway. But I just made a power play move. That ending scene, though. Holy shit. Yeah. He kills about 35 of those motherfuckers. And I don't know. I love the final scene where just the smoke, you know, just dawns away. You see all the bodies and he's getting full of himself and you can't blame him because

[00:34:02] this is just all like a video game to him is like, you want more? I'll give you more. I'm going to go for five more. Stay out of my little friend, you know. But that's just it. I think because gamers and other assholes have just over quoted the movie. A lot of people just only watch the finale. It's like, no, see the whole movie. There's a reason it's popular. And it is referenced virtually everywhere. And every other crime movie since that New Jack City references parts of it.

[00:34:31] You get the money, you get the women, you get the power. But even what's a good movie? There's this one movie that has a similar kind of ending. I just had it in my mind. Shit. It's a really good movie. I mean. Goodfellas has some similar scenes that I feel like are a tribute to that, just showing like montages of how they put the drugs together.

[00:34:59] Blow, I feel like kind of has a few shots that are reminiscent of that. Yeah. Yeah. But some of the violence in Leon, the professional and Pulp Fiction definitely has a few shots is like, yeah, that's a that's a tribute to Scarface. But the ending of Training Day where he's getting all the bullets and saying. And you think you can kill me? That's that's totally a Tony Montana type gun down. I'm not afraid of you, motherfucker.

[00:35:27] And the thing that gets me the most, it's it's it's about the world's best drug, the Peruvian marching powder. That's a good point. No one ever talks about what actual drug is being packaged. They just go crack. I'm like, it's not just any crack cocaine. It's not just any kind of cocaine. It's it's it's pretty much all the best shit. And he snorts it 24 seven and he gets high on his own supplies because who wouldn't if you have it all and you don't even want to sell it?

[00:35:57] Why do anything with it? You know? Yeah. It in all fairness, I mean, as much as we hate what drugs, some drugs, not all. I'm not I'm not a narc, but as much as we dislike what some drugs can really harm your body, there's a reason why people use it. It's just because it really does bring you so much. It may not bring you happiness, but it does make you feel good. So I can understand why he would want to zone out.

[00:36:25] I think it is good at building up to how just again, just glamorizing the excess. So but in a good way. And what do I mean by that? What I mean is just it shows a romanticized version of it. And it really did have some cool dialogue that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But but unfortunately, most people are going to say, hey, yeah, the movie where Pacino overacts

[00:36:53] I'm like, but see, the overacting I feel is earned compared to other movies where Pacino just they won't turn the cameras off. It's like, Pacino, what are you doing? You know, stop it. But he works here, I think. Yeah. It is so wild how he spent much like cruising. He apologizes to people when the movie comes out. Then he slowly starts embracing it again. Passive aggressive. So pretty much.

[00:37:20] If you guys got any final closing thoughts on Scarface, let alone even the original film, he doesn't have a scar on his face. It's a fake film. False advertising. Yeah, there you go. That's the Internet trolling version. Didn't have scars. One star. Amazon. What a face. I saw faces, no scars. All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one. Oh. Whoa. Oh, hey.

[00:37:48] Did you see the school play of Scarface? There's a school play? Yes. There's a there. It's online. There's a little kid. How did they edit it? A little kid did the whole thing with his friends. They edited the shit out of it. But it's so fucking funny. It's like, yeah. Like, so. Well, I'm curious to see. It's adorable, but it's just like, wow. Yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure the principal called in the parents saying.

[00:38:18] Oh, yeah. What movies are you letting your. I saw they skipped a shower scene with the chainsaw. Yeah. No, they only did the last part of the film. Okay. So nothing involved. So they don't have to explain to kids. Well, sometimes cops are bastards. Taking bribes. I would love to see that actually in like a theater film studies class. Someone recreate. Because Harris Hewlin is a good actor. But I would love to see them recreate the whole.

[00:38:46] Well, didn't that one guy from Happy Days do that when he was a kid? Oh. Ralph Mouth? No. Fonzie's cousin. Oh. I think. Oh, Chatsy? Yeah. He did one where it's like a gangster, 30s gangster. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's with kids. I think Jody Fonzie Malone. Bugsy Malone. Bugsy Malone. Yeah. Is it Jody Foster or Tatum O'Neal?

[00:39:15] Jody Foster. Okay. Okay. And they throw pies at each other. Yep. You get a pie. And you get a pie. I can't pay your taxes. And now I'm taking from Dr. Strangely. They have a pie fight too, isn't it? There was a scene where there was a pie fight in Dr. Strangely. It was cut. And they said. And Peter Selger's character gets hit with a pie. One of them says. Ladies and gentlemen. Our great president has been cut down.

[00:39:45] And it came right after JFK had been shot. They were kind of like, you know, 86 on that one. Yeah. Well, it's also fortunate that the president in that film is remotely like JFK. So you can distance yourself a little too. Yeah. I just think the one thing I love is, you know, Dimitri. One of our men got a little crazy. And he, you know. I mean, I love that. I love that. You know.

[00:40:14] I remember my parents liked that when it was on TV. They liked that. Sellers, his presidential part. Yeah. No, that's a good point. Well, and it was just, again, it's interesting how Scarface could have easily been a satire. But instead, it was just kind of. We're just going to. He was doing his over the top acting in that. Yeah. Yeah. It is the most unusual divisive movie. I know people who've grown up loving it, but hate it now.

[00:40:39] So, I, even though it is brownwashing, I still know many Latinos who they're like, I fucking love them in that. They're okay with it. So, it's just kind of one of those is like, it could have been different, but. And I've seen others. They're like, yeah, he's not Cuban, but it's a good performance. Well, I think they kind of. He talks about his parentage and his father was American or something like that. Yeah. My father was American.

[00:41:09] My mother was Cuban. Yes. He died. I remember, he died. Yeah. He died. He died. And then the one part I love, because you got a fucking polluted woman, you know what I mean? Polluted woman, yeah. Because she's drugged up and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's just it, too. I think what I enjoy about it, I've already watched it for years.

[00:41:35] And you guys definitely got to get the Blu-ray, because it does a fun F-bomb counter. I have the platinum edition with the F-bomb counter. Perfect. What's funny, too, is his girlfriend complains about the F-bombs in the middle of the movie when everyone's sick of hearing them, too. You know? Yeah. Just stop saying that, you know? So that's just it. It is pretty self-aware. You just got to look for it. Why are they saying fuck so much? Because it's a free word.

[00:42:04] And then how he's just so out of control. And even the thing with his sister and his best friend. Yep. Yeah. That's right. That's right. He could have had Michelle Pfeiffer. And yet, again, she's like, I have no business being around you. In the alternate cut of the movie, she could have easily been shot or tortured and killed. But they fortunately avoid that. Well, and he took her away from Robert Loggia's character. Oh, no, no, no. You got to say it like Family Guy.

[00:42:34] Robert Loggia. Robert Loggia. Well, right now, I'm just lucky. Hey, no, Tony. Tony. Hey, Tony. No, I would never. I'm Robert Loggia from Florida Orange Juice. Do you want to when I get up? I have a good pee and a good crap, and then I get out of bed. Ugh. I took advantage of Sloan. Don't tell me to do one over on me.

[00:43:01] Yeah, he's a delightful actor and everything. I still miss that dude, but it's definitely one of his better known roles before he does a lot more comedies, like big. What was that one he did with John Cusack? It was a... Oh, that was a good one. Oh, God. What was that one? Oh, I should know. Robert and John. Hot Pursuit. Hot Pursuit. Yeah. That was fun. Missed it.

[00:43:26] Well, remember, he's always going to be remembered as Thomas Hewitt Edwards, the cat. Oh, yes. Yes, he will. Oh, he played the T-H-E cat? Yep. I didn't know that. He played the cat. Yeah. It was a late 60s spy TV show, right? And then the rest... Oh, he was a cat burglar. He was a cat burglar. Yeah. Okay. And the rest of the 80s and 90s, he was basically playing five-star generals.

[00:43:53] And I like him actually in The Believers. Independence Day. Yeah. But The Believers, did you guys ever see that one? I think I have, but it's been a very, very long time. Long story short, Mark Sheen saves his kid from a satanic cult. And he was one of the guys who was brainwashed and killed. But it's surprisingly very decent. Actually, I might be confusing it with the Martin Sheen movie, actually. Yeah, it is.

[00:44:21] Martin Sheen's pretty surprisingly twisted. But yeah, I mean, I think Loggia brings a lot to this role because he could have easily phoned it in at this point in his career. And he's been on the record at every anniversary screening. He's always been like, we were putting on a play. It's Shakespeare in the Park. It's really fun. And I just don't know. I know he's difficult to work with, but I do not understand why Stephen Bauer couldn't

[00:44:47] have had a bigger career in between this, all the B movies he makes, and then all his TV show comebacks. Because he's difficult to work with. I know. But it's more of a, I don't like you, as opposed to, it was really only he got to Ray Donovan where they had to eventually let him go because he was just drugged out of his mind and just coming to set late. But no. That doesn't help matters either. Oh, yeah. That's how it's said. Oh, yeah. Oh, boy.

[00:45:17] Oh, yeah. Drunk of Batter's mind. Okay. I'm from Cuba. Oh, yeah. So deep. It's funny. I'm going to get him. Sorry. I'm going to get you. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Kind of much like cruising, though. Yeah. Pacino did not want to talk about this at all. And I think this was the one that made him finally wake up. Fuck the critics. Whatever my fan base says, I will sign your merchandise.

[00:45:46] You know, it's like so he didn't want to talk about it for a while because, you know, critics trashed him saying, you know, he gets a Razzie nom. Terrible acting. You know, I'm like, even if I don't like him, what why what part of bad acting would compute into this? Maybe maybe he was overacting, but he's engaging and compelling. He's definitely overacting, but he does have some good subtle moments, especially when he's in the cast and he takes up that silencer like he is at that point.

[00:46:14] He's like, I am not putting up or being played for a fool anymore. Yeah, is like. But I think this is it. I don't know how much of it is people just. I've had some co-workers in the past who hated movies like this and Boys in the Hood just because they were born in the ghetto. So I try to be open minded, but sometimes it just seems like people who just had a terrible upbringing or just new thugs like that.

[00:46:41] And it's like, yeah, trust me, I met plenty of thugs at school, believe it or not. But I never feared for my life. So I get it. If you were it's kind of like some war veterans don't like to watch war movies just because they see all the inaccuracies. So I get it. And at the same time, like I got to give credit where it's due when someone speaks some ounce of truth. There's real life gangsters who want to totally be like him or the Sopranos. So it is there.

[00:47:09] If you got something right, it's probably that it just and same kind of difference. Where is he going to go? He used to be a foot soldier for the cartels. Yeah. And it is interesting seeing Brian De Palma use some of his other fellow actors because the actors were speaking Spanish. The border patrol guards. He had Dennis friends and another actor he uses a lot, dub them in. And so that was what was always interesting to me.

[00:47:37] I'm like, why does those guys sound like they're from the Bronx, even though they're Latino? He had to dub them. But yeah, no, I do think it is a good role. I I know other people who really honestly. I think it's just another movie that's been undone just because much like them and Louise, when they do film clip shows, they always show the last 20 minutes. It's like, no, you got to earn it to quote same by Ryan. Earn this.

[00:48:07] You know, you've got to watch the whole free hours before you get to that part and get to enjoy it. It should be illegal for them to show clips from this movie anymore. Oh, God. I don't get it, man. I do not get it. So, Jalen, where the hell is Oliver Stone in his career at this point? Like he's. I thought he died. Whoa. Why is he still alive?

[00:48:36] I think he's awesome. And yet he's not making much anymore. He was great, but I don't think he has it anymore. Wait, all those filmmakers we're talking about, I feel like more many of them lost it. We just don't have anything to offer anymore. All right. Fair enough. Do you have a favorite? The Doors, of course. Come on. Seriously. Of course, Oliver Stone lost it. Did you see Savages and the World Trade Center stuff? This is horrible.

[00:49:06] Two horrible movies. Seriously. One of them is like a sappy, you know, like drama, emotional blackmailing one. The other one is just. I enjoyed parts of Savages, but the narration is awful. Like. Because it's Blake. What's her name? Well, and she. And she wasn't ready to even. She was never going to be ready, but it's like. She was never going to be ready. She's terrible. Yeah. I think she just got up because she had connections or whatever, but she was a terrible actress.

[00:49:34] Not because she looks hot means she can be leading the movies. Maybe just keep her as, you know, gossip girly. Well, and the movie is messy. My only beef with it is, you know, Aaron Taylor Johnson. He's not an actor. He's got a military body, but I get that. But. Yeah, but he's not an actor, actor. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you're right. I dug Taylor Kitsch, but after John Carter. Taylor Kitsch was another missed opportunity. I think he would have been a great actor. He's doing good on TV, but that's just it.

[00:50:04] Like he. That John Carter thing kind of. Oh, that's something. He's not exactly. He's not made for movies. My sister and I, we saw that movie. We were just like, it's not half bad, but he's not ready to be a movie star. But we like him. But yeah, I. Savages, I think my main issue was the whole. Well, we got to actually film. This kidnapping like in an actual car is like, no, just use a movie set or just imply it. You don't have to show that. And the fact that they played some tricks while getting in character on a stunt woman is like that.

[00:50:33] That's not cool. That would not fly. Like it was very exhausting movie. And I and when I read the novel, it was based on it was even shittier. So can you. OK, well, I wasn't going to read it anyway, but thanks for saving me time. Yeah, trust me. Don't waste hours of your life reading this pile of garbage. Did you know Uma Thurman was in the movie, but they cut her scenes, which makes you wonder why would you waste all these big. Uma Thurman, you idiots. God, she was brilliant in Nymphomaniac. I was just watching Nymphomaniac.

[00:51:03] It's a very disturbing film, but it's also great. And Lars von Trier is a terrible person, but he makes really great movies. Not a Dogma 95 style fan, but. Really? I love. I don't buy the bullshit. And then, um, Cammie. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's all good. No. But I'm with you. Savage has had some mispotential. It's just like there. But World Trade Center. Yeah, don't don't bother.

[00:51:34] We'll return after these messages. We got a 90 minute weekly shack stop. It's growing all over the world. Find it at 2 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern time on Mondays. Then 3 p.m. on Wednesdays. Then 7 p.m. on Thursdays. You can catch it on many more radio stations. 99.9 KERV. 1 p.m. Central time. 2 p.m. Eastern on Mondays.

[00:52:03] Then catch the Encore on Thursdays at 5 p.m. Central time. 6 p.m. Eastern. Then catch it Wednesday mornings at 11 a.m. Eastern time. 10 a.m. Central on 1077 K-Twins. Then hang out with us Wednesday afternoons on MXTR and Hal Shack Radio. 3 p.m. Eastern time. Then Thursday. Get up bright and early with us on 95.7 Web Radio at 6 a.m. Pacific time.

[00:52:32] 9 a.m. Eastern. Of course, we've got the Friday covered as well. 12 p.m. Eastern time on MXTR FM. And 10 p.m. Eastern time. 9 p.m. Central 1077 K-Twins. Find everything on HalShack.com. HalShack. Welcome to the Better Call Daddy show.

[00:52:59] The number one podcast where we admit no matter what happens, Daddy has the advice we need to fix our problems. Introducing my dad, Mr. Wayne Friedman. That was good. It would be nice if you could also sing a song. What would the song be? You love Paris in the springtime. I just made up some words to it. I love Rena in the springtime. I love Rena in the fall. That's right. That's good enough. What I do is interview people of interest, share it with my dad, and get my dad's advice.

[00:53:27] My dad is my hero. Nobody's got my daddy. Oh boy. Let's go to grandpa. You like to be a little rebel. I tried to rein you in. I have a daughter named Rena that acts just like I did. She's got a son that is not only just like me, but it's just like her. I'm your host, Rena Friedman Watts. Invite your friends, subscribe, and I'm excited to take this journey with you. Let's dive in. She was teasing this guy with the sword, and she accidentally cut his dick. Oh my God, I'm dying.

[00:53:58] And then he started to enjoy it. I started going down the phone sex rabbit hole. You've got the wankers, and they jerk off in five seconds, and then they're done because A, they don't want to spend money, and B, they're quick. My stepfather had mania. If I'm yelling at one of my kids, that fear, that rigid fear. Mom even said to me, I hope you have a kid just like you. There are lots of people that are being bought and sold right now for profit. If you think you're going to kill yourself, shut up and kill yourself. If you're not going to kill yourself, then shut up, smarten up, and it's all on you. The bullshit has to end.

[00:54:27] Wow. When I was 11 years old, I was raped and molested over the course of a year. What Jeffrey Epstein had was a sickness inside of him. I am Evan Castrilli Carmichael. I could do anything that I believe that I can. I'm so excited too. Let's go. Next, I'm Better Call Daddy with my mom and my grandpa. Stay tuned.

[00:54:51] Follow us on the web, on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple, and anywhere else podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening. It's a jacked up. Thanks a million. Here we go. Bye.