Star Trekking Week: The Best Villains of Star Trek Saga Pt 2 (with Treksperts Podcast Host Keith M. Sedor!)

[00:00:06] It's a Jacked Up Review Show It's a Jacked Up Review Show Oh, Jacked Up Review Show It's a Jacked Up Review Show It's a Jacked Up Review Show Oh, Jacked Up Review Show So we're gonna be moving on over to expert host Keith M. Sedor

[00:00:51] Okay, so while we've been playing mind tricks on each other, I had to ask this Trekspert host, what villains are the highest ranks in this never-ending saga? Which ones stole the show because they were proper writing, they were worthy of the crew outsmarting them?

[00:01:13] They were more than just a famous actor doing a stunt casting, you know, and hamming it up. We're something about it, these particular selected villains that were worthy of the Ron Berry franchise.

[00:01:25] Do you want to do a Count Up and start with the ones people want to hear or do you want to do a Count Down? I want your sake. We end with the best. Just your take, my dude. Just your take. Just the ones that stay with you.

[00:01:37] They don't have to be in a top 250. Let's just go right for the big get and get him out of the way. I'll build up. We'll fill this in with a lot of good commentary, but let's just get Con out of the way.

[00:01:54] All right, because he's the one everybody thinks of. Here's the thing and I'll tell you about Con, why the story works so well and as a side note interject why the 2000, J.J., the 2011, I don't know why. I don't know why.

[00:02:18] The J. Abrams starting into darkness was such utter schlock. Number one, Benedict Cumberbatch could not pass off as Indian. The guy made some money. That's why he got hired for the job. But he's a great actor. Just don't hire people who make homages.

[00:02:35] Hire people who make actual movies. That's what the franchise needs. No more J.J. Abrams. The fundamentals of the Con story is that here he is, he's this genetically engineered Superman who escaped Earth in the 1990s, 1996 to be specific, as they told it in 1966,

[00:02:57] with a cadre of fellow genetically engineered Superman because they were overthrown as they were trying to take over the earth. Yeah. And they didn't have any type of warp drive, so they were to sleep or ship.

[00:03:12] Captain Kirk finds them almost 300 years later and with his superior ambition and intellect tries to take over the enterprise and kill Captain Kirk. Well, Kirk being Kirk, that's not going to happen. We're talking about the guy who can talk a computer to death,

[00:03:31] rests control back from Con and takes his ship back in a nutshell. You want to see the story if you haven't already, which I'm sure you have. Go and rewatch the original series episode, Space Seed.

[00:03:44] Now, taking Con to the next level is Star Trek II, The Wrath of Con. There you go. You can't start the Con story with Star Trek II, The Wrath of Con, even though his name is in the title.

[00:03:58] You have to start with Space Seed when Kirk and Con are both younger guys because what Kirk does is quite magnanimous. He actually says, hey, we're going to be passing by this planet that's uninhabited

[00:04:12] and I could either take you for court martial or I could drop you off here and you have a go of it and figure out what you can make. Oh, I'm your blood sucker. Now, of course, Kirk doesn't know the planet.

[00:04:25] The next planet in the solar system is going to explode and shift the orbit of this one, laying it to waste. But 15 years go by, Kirk is the only captain to have completed his five-year mission without losing his ship, his crew or himself.

[00:04:43] He gets promoted to Admiral that he's not a desk job type of guy. So by the time we get 15 years later to this movie in 1982, he's in his early 50s. He's feeling older and he doesn't have his act together as far as knowing what his place

[00:05:01] in the world is anymore. And he's feeling really displaced. Well, as luck would have it, he winds up coming face to face. And here's an irony of the movie. He doesn't actually come physically face to face only on the view screen.

[00:05:17] The irony of Star Trek II, the wrath of Khan is that while Kirk and Khan fought in hand-to-hand combat and space seed, they never come face to face other than on a view screen in the wrath of Khan. And plus, Khan is the type of villain.

[00:05:35] Khan is very, very layered and multi-dimensional. In any good story, the villain doesn't think he's the villain. He thinks he's the protagonist. He's been wronged. He thinks he wants revenge. Exactly. His planet was laid wasted. His wife was killed by these indigenous creatures. There's nothing here.

[00:05:57] Kirk never came to check on him. He's been doing this slow burn for 15 years and he was already a couple sandwiches short of a picnic lunch to begin with as far as being wrapped really tightly.

[00:06:09] And now you come 15 years later, he's just sitting here in the sand going, what the hell? Now all of a sudden, oh, a Starfleet ship shows up. Yeah. Here's my opportunity. Yep. Exactly. He was Hans Gruber before it was cool. But that's a good way of putting it.

[00:06:28] Because then literally you watch the original wrath of Khan movie. It's practically diehard in space before they were doing that with first contact and all the even next. And the original title of Star Trek II, the wrath of Khan was Star Trek II, The Vengeance of Khan.

[00:06:42] The vengeance. So as a reason why they changed the title was because that is when revenge of the Jedi was in production. Yeah. And so before George Lucas said, oh, well, Jedi wouldn't get revenge. They would come back. They would be the return of the Jedi.

[00:06:59] Harve Bennett said, you know what? We need to change this from vengeance because it sounds too much like the next Star Wars movie, which would have been revenge. So we went to the wrath of Khan. Even though we're usually a effects company. Exactly.

[00:07:12] But the interesting thing is, you know, with wrath, now we're talking directly about one of the seven deadly sins. So. Bingo. So. Perk's imperfect, but he doesn't have anywhere near the amount of sins that Khan's got in his closet. But and then he.

[00:07:30] And he's not genetically modified either. So he has that for him. That's true. Yeah. Unlike some of his other people who are expanded upon an enterprise who are basically super soldiers, he's like pretty pure muscular. Yeah. And just ready to fucking die.

[00:07:45] Tell me who you think a significant villain is right off the top of your head. Oh man. So we went through a bunch of them. We went through General Chang and on Discovery Country, Raffo and insurrection. And of course.

[00:08:01] Don't think we have to stay just with the movies because, you know. No, I didn't. I didn't like TV to draw from there. No, we went through the various one off characters like the one time traveler on Next Gen played by Max Headroom.

[00:08:14] We went through the various androids and guys starting a coup on Voyager. We went to the character's name was Russ Munson and he was from. Hey, no, I can't name them all. But since you want me on the spot, anyone that comes

[00:08:30] close to Khan is definitely Gold D'Kott and Kaywin. Really? And Kaywin? Yeah. Huh. The original care or as various. Well, you know, Louise Fletcher is kind of the actor to really portray a villain.

[00:08:47] I mean, even before they went down this whole paw race with Ducat and Ducat wasn't even in the picture. She was really, really an antagonist to Ben Sisko. So yeah, they really built that character sugar coated at first because they just wanted the political politics.

[00:09:08] She's kind of like the Star Trek version religious zealot, even though Marjorie Taylor Green is not a religious zealot. She's that kind of nut. Oh, yeah. If anything, it's season one. She's basically Marjorie Taylor Green by the end of the run.

[00:09:25] She's basically Lauren Bovart where she's, oh, there you go. She's like, I never said that. Yes, you did. Oh, well, I don't think I said it. Yes, you did. Yeah. Good.

[00:09:35] That there was a historical meme if you can look up where they say Kaywin sounds too much like Karen. Well, it's actually Kai. The religious term on Bejior is not K. It's Kai. Hi, Kaiwin. Hi, I like Karen. Yep. Yeah.

[00:09:51] So much the same way that they would have priests and I'm trying to think what human religions they'd have, but they had Kai and then the step down was called a Vedic. A Vedic. Yes, Vedics are basically the ones who they shit all over.

[00:10:10] It was like the Lieutenant. However, the villain chooses to abuse them because you know how it is, as you already pointed out. The thing about these villains is they are Rottenberries and companies, even Ronald D. Moore, especially when he gets to Galactica.

[00:10:27] He carries a lot of these themes from DS9 over where always question whoever's in control, whoever's in power, just because they're appointed doesn't mean they're sane. And it's just so much fun to just kind of how all the villains pretty much become

[00:10:43] either section 31, you know, renegades or they're just other tyrants that are even deadlier than a typical TOS or TNG character. Yeah, it was funny when they tried to recruit Dr. Bashir into section 31. I'm like, yeah, this guy's not section 31 material. Oh, that's just it.

[00:11:05] It's like they have recruiting them. Now Brad Boymler is, or is it William Boymler? Are you watching Star Trek Lower Decks? I did see that. I didn't think of that, but there are definitely some questionable characters that we could definitely take from Lower Decks.

[00:11:25] Another one that I think is really relevant is Soren from the Generations. Optimus Dowell is really, really multifaceted. I mean, you look at him play H.G. Wells in the 1979 time after time with who's the guy who played David Warner?

[00:11:50] You know, he looked at him play opposite David Warner in time after time and he plays this mild, meek, gentle, introspective, thoughtful H.G. Wells versus the maniacal pair lines. They're only about my mission guy. He plays as Soren.

[00:12:09] It's a night and day difference and it really shows the spectrum of his abilities as an actor. Do you think Nicholas Meyer put in a word for him, even though he had nothing to do with the seventh movie?

[00:12:20] This seems like if you worked with any of these guys, they ended up on the track. There's always that possibility cam. I couldn't say one way or another where they did or didn't. But it's funny for as much praise as Nicholas Meyer gets

[00:12:35] for Star Trek II, The Wrath of Khan and the Undiscovered Country. I don't love Star Trek VI. No, it's fine. I mean, as far as the original series crews movies go, I love the trilogy that is two, three and four. It's fine.

[00:12:57] But you know, I think Star Trek VI is only made marginally better by the existence of Star Trek V. Let's find Jesus. Right. Although I did jokingly put in God and Spock's brother because, okay. Well, they are basically bad guys, which are a perfect examination.

[00:13:14] It's just like many basically Star Trek V is a canon film. Which you shot out of one. It's well intended. It should be shot out of one. Exactly.

[00:13:26] It's got it just happened to they just had to hire someone who wasn't capable of telling any kind of concise story. Well, the fact of the matter is, is that Shatner directed it. And while Shatner is an entertaining actor, I don't know that he's got directorial chops.

[00:13:44] Well, he didn't even take responsibility for it. When Leonard Nimoy directed Star Trek III because Spock was dead and there was a way to have him involved in it before they brought him back. Exactly. And you get what you make way for him.

[00:13:58] But then he did such a good job with it. They gave him Star Trek IV while they were negotiating everything because Shatner wanted to direct Star Trek IV, but the studio wanted Nimoy in order for Shatner to agree to come back.

[00:14:16] They had to agree to give him a movie to direct with Star Trek V. We're off topic here. I'm going to do a deep dive here. Exactly. And this is for our Trek purists. Star Trek Voyager, Anarac. Yeah, we mentioned him. He was a very cool guy.

[00:14:36] He did from the year of hell. Yes, with Kurt Witt Smith. I'm at you, Kurt Witt Smith. I love him. He's such a great actor. He did a show called Worst Week. It was about his soon to be son-in-law during the week, I think prior to their

[00:14:53] wedding, the whole show takes place in the week prior to that he's going to marry Kurt Witt Smith's daughter. And so the future son-in-law is having his Worst Week. But he just plays such a good unintentional antagonist to this young guy.

[00:15:09] If you ever get to see Worst Week, it's really, really good. I think you probably pick up on Amazon on the cheap. But yeah, I think he is so determined to set time straight and at the same time

[00:15:28] put an equal amount of effort into thwarting and subverting Captain Janeway at every turn. The only disappointment I really have in that episode, that two-parter episode, is that that could have had the potential for a much longer story arc.

[00:15:47] I mean, you could have literally taken that whole season and made it the era of hell. I would have definitely preferred that instead of just going back to who's taking over the ship. You would not have liked that. No, I told it.

[00:16:00] I would have preferred it too because it was so powerful as a two-parter. There's no denying it would have probably worked. Had we just not had Jerry Taylor and Brandon Braga trying to overwrite each other and Berman not insisting it be syndication.

[00:16:14] Hey, listen, I will never ever say a bad word about Berman, Braga, or Taylor when, I mean, not that I would have before, but especially in contrast to what 21st century trick writers are doing. Who's a good villain that I really, really liked? Hit me.

[00:16:34] Michael and Sarah as Kang in the Star Trek Original Series episode Day of the Dove. Basically, the Enterprise gets a distress signal. They beam down to this planet where they think there's supposed to be a star base and or colony and it's gone.

[00:16:49] Not even not even any trace of it. And then the Klingons being down basically thinking the same thing. And there's this malevolent entity which radiates hostility and it thrives when whoever it gets to fight near it because it thrives on the negative energy.

[00:17:09] And so basically that it winds up blowing up the Klingons ship. The Klingons come aboard the Enterprise and they're just going to endlessly fight feeding hostility and negative emotions for this entity until the Enterprise crew realizes it and he has to convince Kang, the captain of the Klingons,

[00:17:29] to cease hostilities as he puts it so that they don't all continue to kill themselves. It's really cool seeing them, you know, they already were a little insecure about learning the Klingon language versus English amongst each other.

[00:17:48] But now that they're having to like flat out communicate and say, hey, think outside your damn heads for one minute. This is not what you think it is. It's just amazing how they play into that.

[00:18:03] And again, it's another fun under siege episode where an unusual supernatural entity is holding the ship hostage. They're having to flat out work together and they don't want to work together because they got to flat out solve all the other disputes on each deck where

[00:18:18] crew members are running rampant. Actually, real quick, I can't believe I almost forgot this in all the conversations that I've had. It's literally one of my favorite Star Trek movies. And I said, I didn't want to spend all our time on the Star Trek movies, but it's fine.

[00:18:34] Christopher Lloyd as Krug. Yeah. Oh, I mean, masterful. I mean, I watched a comedian once talk about the fact that it was Kevin Pollock, I think it was. He talked about, hey, he didn't realize that it was

[00:18:50] Christopher Lloyd playing Commander Krug under all the prosthetics of heavy makeup. He says he starts talking, you know, the first half of the movie, he's talking only in Klingon with subtitles. And then he confronts Captain Kirk and all you hear is Reverend Jim from Taxi.

[00:19:10] You don't want to give me the Genesis device? Well, okay. But that's pretty much it. And plus the immortal, you know, even before you get to the immortal Kirk line, I mean, just him giving the captain a total ass whooping.

[00:19:28] And then it's just so weird because when you first see him, you just don't really know what to think. You think, oh, is he just going to be a typical Slingon like in the two-dimensional?

[00:19:38] Is he going to look like the bad guy? Is he going to be a placeholder for the bad guy? Or is he going to be actually a bad guy? Is he just going to be a typical idiot who they knock out?

[00:19:47] Is he just going to be a black hat, you know, to represent that level? Totally. A henchman who's going to somehow be king captain of his ship is like, no, it's a little bit of that and more. But then when he flat out executes one of his

[00:20:02] members of his ship who's failed him, and then it gets even wackier when he's just like, he doesn't even ask for any more questions. He's like, resume, get up here, get your ass up here, start piloting. He doesn't even wait for them to breathe.

[00:20:16] And it's just even funnier seeing the members of his crew is supposed to be all heroic. Like, you know, they're almost always portrayed as Vikings or Samurai equivalent. And here, like they're having to rush, they're having to get their ass to Mars,

[00:20:29] you know, total recall style. They're like, okay, well, whatever he says, don't have time to gloat over who's just been dishonorably murdered by our captain. We got to go and fucking it wasn't me. It wasn't me. Fun fact, the guy he executes is David Cady,

[00:20:46] entay, who is a well was a pretty well known stuntman back in his day. That's like his best known role. But it's interesting to how his son Jeff got a entay became

[00:20:55] the stunt coordinator on DS nine. Really? I don't know that he Jeff is amazing. He is done dying. I just I just think of that scene where he's like, Tom, I'll show the name meaning you idiot, I wanted prisoners. Lucky shot, sir.

[00:21:14] blows them out of the water. There you go. It doesn't even wait for an animal. Yeah. Yeah. I'm astonished at the level of Klingon. I know because that just says how many times I've watched these movies because I don't know conversational Klingon

[00:21:31] unlike the Mark O'Cran novel, which was worked on the Klingon language was actually worked on with Mark Leonard, who helped I remember that with with with Scottie do Han. Yeah. Yep. So unheard of

[00:21:48] is like, but that's dedication. That's actors with too much not only commitment and free time, but who want to build the world that they've fallen in love with. That's great. It's funny. There is a foreign language app that my family uses because we'll be doing some traveling this

[00:22:06] year. Do a lingo? Yes. And I always know when someone's saying it. I haven't done that. I mean, right now I'm just focusing on Spanish and French because we're going to be in Europe this year.

[00:22:16] I did some of the Gaelic and I'm just like, yeah, I could tell that I've been exposed to Spanish and French my whole life because I get what they're trying to say even if I'm learning new words.

[00:22:34] The Gaelic, which I've never done before for my mother in law is from Ireland. The Gaelic it was just like, oh my God, this is beyond foreign. This is hurting my brain. Yeah, but do a lingo does a good job. Does it have a cling on Adam?

[00:22:47] Yeah, that would be amazing. And I kind of got the gist of that. I mean, kind of like how I always felt like the elves in both the books and movie and even the show of Lord of the Rings were kind

[00:22:58] of like Vulcans the whole pointy here. Have you seen Leonard Neyboy do Bilbo Baggins? The ballad of Bilbo Baggins. Yeah, it's just like when Shatner sees. You can't unsee that. I know, but when you grow up with cheesy bad movies, it's hysterical. I mean, I'd almost

[00:23:16] rather want to see Shatner do the spoken word of Lucy in the Skyward Diamonds than that. Which is saying something. Picture poison. Exactly. To expect one to always order poison in a bar is not logical.

[00:23:32] It is most illogical, but that's kind of what we're getting out of the way. It's sure you did get my Star Trek 3 reference there, right? He says poison. Yeah, so Dr. McCoy it's the beginning of Star Trek 3. Dr. McCoy is on earth looking to

[00:23:48] get a shuttle to the Genesis planet and the waitress who knows Dr. McCoy, but he's got Spock's contra-anims. Well now you gotta say it like it's basically half Spock. And she goes, oh hi,

[00:24:02] doc. It's been a long time. What's your poison? To expect one to order poison in a bar is not logical. Okay, so we've seen it one too many times. Okay. Oh, I know what she says. She says,

[00:24:14] what's your poison? No, I'm still saying it wrong. And I should know this. She asks what you got. He says, I want all tear water. She goes, that's not your usual poison. To expect one to order poison in a bar is not logical.

[00:24:28] He says for the third time. It's late as we record this. Third time's the charm. There you go. Okay, so I have said so many on the other episode. I don't have any other ones that close this out,

[00:24:42] but Storm runs a good start. And Christopher Lloyd as the Klingon commander in part three. Yep. And it's Krug or Krug. Krug. And he just belts it out when he's saying that. Very German sounding. But so now this is interesting how we've talked about all these different cultures.

[00:25:06] And again, they don't exist. They're in all these. It's so hard to talk about Star Trek without going outside coloring outside the lines and talking about other elements of it. It's going to happen because they're mirroring not only social commentary in real life, but then

[00:25:21] they're also mirroring other fantasies, other fictional realms like without Blade Runner. You pretty much don't get data on Star Trek. But then some of these other ones. Why is Brent Spiner and Blade Runner? No, it's just very similar with the cerebral cortex of the

[00:25:36] cyberpunk aspect of Androids. I mean, I know they've got what do they call them? Replicants. Variants. Oh, replicants again. I knew there was something like that. But yeah, I know that they're supposed to be similar or modeled after him.

[00:25:56] Basically Roy Beatty in that. Rutger Howard's villain is basically more. Okay. So, but I mean, if you've seen Battlestar Galactica, you kind of already seen a little bit of Blade Runner because it's a lot. Yeah, Rutger Howard was the consummate bad guy in

[00:26:12] the 80s. Yeah, he rules man. He did rule. Wait, wait, wait, wait, were you born? I know how old you are, but how were you born? I was born in the 90s, but I watched plenty of 80s movies.

[00:26:25] No, but you didn't see them when they were fresh, when they were new. You didn't go to the theater to see them. You don't have to go to the theater to appreciate the movie.

[00:26:35] No, I get that. But there's something about it being like, oh, this brand new thing is out. There's that versus, okay, now it's a cult classic. I'll put it to you this way. Without Blade Runner, I wouldn't give a shit about detective movies or novels. Okay, fair enough.

[00:26:51] That is here as the board's best role. I'll even go there. Now, I want to see Blade Runner, Blade Runner 2049 notwithstanding, but do you think the original or the director's cut is the one that somebody's never seen? It should go see. You should watch all five versions

[00:27:08] of it and make your own mind. If you watch Superman 2, do you want to watch the original theatrical version or the Jack Donner version? It's not like that. It's not like Waterworld where I get more story development versus more action. I wouldn't give you a what in Nickel

[00:27:25] from Waterworld and I never saw that one either. It's a good movie, but it's hated because I like Kevin Costner. I was on the set of his baseball movie for Love of the Game.

[00:27:39] No, no, no. For Love of the Game. But that one, Draft Day I love. That was about football. This one was about baseball. Yeah, my friend. He's done so many movies.

[00:27:49] I was an extra in that movie too, but Unlike Jingle All the Way for Love of the Game, whatever footage I was in. Because I actually talked to Kevin Costner briefly in between takes, but whatever scene I shot with him, I ended up cutting him four because

[00:28:06] I watched the movie. I was nowhere to be seen. And you're like, why do they fucking film it? I don't really thought that or just like, oh man. You're happy to see it, but it does get

[00:28:18] a little bit. Listen, I was happy for as much coverage as I got in Jingle All the Way because in addition to the scene with the angry moms, smack them with their pocketbooks, there's a scene immediately following that where he's talking to the mall Santa

[00:28:34] and there's extras off in the distance recycling in the background. I'm seeing there. I mean, literally between the carrying the wrapping paper when he goes, I'm not the permit and when he's talking to them all Santa, I probably have like a grand total of three

[00:28:50] and a half seconds of screen time on three different appearances that I'm there. So each one's like a second to a second and a half, but I'm grateful to have them.

[00:28:58] But I'm glad that you did the experience. I'm glad you did it because much like when we watch all these same reuse bridge crew who actually have names and a featured line of dialogue

[00:29:11] touring extras. I mean, I ended up observing it on all these other shows. And it's even funnier when you see someone else who's not credited. And then it having to get the gist of filmmaking

[00:29:22] as a whole is like, I'm expecting a boom mic to drop into the shot. And I didn't see that guy's face. So he's probably got a $50 extra and they hired a professional, you know, voice actor to do the help me, help me, my cards on fire. You know,

[00:29:38] it's always funny how doing the experience gets you in it. Now you know all the terminology, you know what an apple card is for someone to stand on, you know, second unit growing up

[00:29:49] and like, what the fuck is that? We got a boom mic. We'll fix it in post. No, we won't. I'd say that now just sitting podcast. Yeah, podcast gives us an even more appreciation of

[00:30:02] audio dramas that we grew up listening to all this shit that we don't want to deal with, but we know a better theater of the mind. Theater of the mind. And the mind is a dangerous place

[00:30:14] to be, especially if it's Jordy's mind. Oh, boy. I think you've seen that family guy episode so where they make fun of that and they're like, his vision is from who has it. That's so meta. I was

[00:30:27] like, that is creepy. Don't do that again. Just a bit. Oh man. Yeah. So whose mind would you not want? Would you prefer to be trapped in Kirk or data's? It's going to get weird out of way.

[00:30:44] Yeah. Well, at least with data, it would be a little more innocuous sure. You never know what's going on in Kirk's mind. Yeah, Kirk, you're pretty much going to be the guy

[00:30:56] who he's beating up for the girl. It's a Western. It's a Gary Cooper slugfest. So it's going to do you. You'll either get killed, but it won't be with any intent. It's just going to be, well,

[00:31:10] I guess everyone died in this disturbing vision he had this spot. At least you get to pet a cat. So yeah. Oh boy. Not a fan cat. Sorry. We're making dogs. No, I don't carry the weight just

[00:31:25] whatever. Now you should say that's Spock style is most illogical. Whatever. Anyway, so what can we promote here on your show? What can we pimp out on the track spurts that well, there are two primary shows. I am the Apple and Mac pundit on a nationally syndicated radio

[00:31:50] show called computer talk radio posted by Benjamin Rockwell. So I'm literally on that show like eight to 10 minutes a week. It's a two hour show. Still got milk. But the interesting thing about

[00:32:04] computer talk radio is that it's not just a podcast. It actually is a terrestrial radio show which is broadcast on 15 different radio stations around the country. But if you're in a market that

[00:32:18] doesn't happen to get it, you can also listen to as a podcast. And it was with my producer who's an LA Benjamin Rockwell that we kind of hit it off and started talking about all kinds of

[00:32:29] nerdy fun topics. We spun off the computer talk radio nerdcast, which spawned the trexperts round table. Just talking about just Star Trek. I found a couple other people who feel similarly to the

[00:32:46] way we do. And then Benjamin is what I refer to as my serial foil. He is the one person on the Just Pour the Milk podcast that does not like pre-sweetened cereal. So the rest of the show

[00:33:04] all adults late 40s, early 50s who grew up during the golden age of cereal in the 70s and 80s when we'd have a bowl of cereal with our Saturday morning cartoons. And then we have Benjamin on

[00:33:18] because we'll make him eat the same cereal, but it's hilarious because he doesn't have this on nostalgia for it. He's like, oh my God, I got diabetes just from smelling the box. He's hilarious. We call him our serial foil. But there are new episodes of the

[00:33:37] trexperts round table podcast and Just Pour the Milk podcast coming soon. Sweet, sweet. Toss not included. Say that again? Toss not included. I'm missing that. What's not included? Toss not included. That's why we have a mute button on the microphone. Happy to talk too much.

[00:34:04] We all do. That's the fun of it. And then we get to the side like a director on our newest blockbuster. What stays in and what's too much? There you go. What's a deli, what's a leftover blooper special?

[00:34:16] So we talked for quite a while, Cam. How much do you edit out on an average basis? Oh, this is going to be two separate episodes. We'll do the legendary Star Trek versus

[00:34:23] Wars and Lord of the Rings redux and then I'll mix in your takes for the villains. Oh, perfect. I look forward to seeing that to the plan of recording two episodes with you, but it'll be good. Although I do want to talk to you about the Muppets when

[00:34:36] you're ready to record that episode. I promise we will do it, but it's going to be like a behold zoom hints and rankings. So you can put in, hey, this era Sesame Street, you know, five out of five, this era. Yeah, Labyrinth you can put in as overrated.

[00:34:50] I personally am not crazy about Dark Crystal, so I'll put that in overrated. Oh, you know, it's a Dark Crystal? Yeah, I like Labyrinth. I never got around to seeing the series, but I love that movie. The show is good. Ironic. Is it really? Really? Okay.

[00:35:03] If you like, again, just the still practical. I mean, just everything they go through just real quick, everything to go to to get to the end of that movie and all the the Skexies and the the wise ones. What do they call it? The wise ones?

[00:35:17] There's the Skexies were the creepy looking ones. And now I will have to rewatch it. Yeah. And then Kira. I don't hate it. It's here. Kira lies dying. She's like, heal the Crystal Gen. He takes the shard and jams it in and everything just the lights go everywhere.

[00:35:34] That's great. I love it. But that's what I'm talking about. That movie came out in what, 82? Something like that. When I was like 14. But I saw it in the theater first run. So you know, it's a different era we talk about. We talk about stuff like that.

[00:35:51] Well, but that's the beauty of Jim Henson is like going through the maze of just classic when TV was live, there was no and you know, there was a repeat at eight or whatever.

[00:36:02] And then deciding which of the Disney, you know, post Disney era was decent and which ones were just schlocky. I'm yes, I'm still in your word. Cations like all good. I like much like those movies. I fucking hate those new movie movies.

[00:36:17] I was just like, I can clearly see the green screen. There's no life. There's no investment in this. And the music numbers really don't have anything to do with the plot. So why am I watching this?

[00:36:31] Jim Henson worked when again, the music was fourth wall breaking and it drove the story forward. If you just have a music number and jokes and they don't amount to the actual main plot A or plot B, why am I watching it?

[00:36:47] And so many people, I mean, you've done it many times on tracksuits, but I really do wish people would have more conversations on style versus substance. Absolutely. One hundred percent. I could not agree with you more, Kim.

[00:37:03] And especially when you get to a post matrix era, how much of it is style in zero substance and how much of it is substance, but it's got a style and how much of it is just fast and furious where we don't care.

[00:37:16] And what are they up to? Like what are the options like nine, 10 movies that franchise? And then two, I mean, they might as well be a hundred movies because each movie feels like six different movies stapled together. I've never seen one of them.

[00:37:31] Well, you basically already did if you saw Star Trek beyond that's a fast and furious ship show. Wow, sick bird. See what I went there. But it is funny because I see so many people who are driven crazy about it and they'll still go see it.

[00:37:44] And then I see people like my sister who don't like any other kinds of action movies like that, but they'll still see that. So it's just mind blowing how kind of when you get into different sci-fi fantasy even horror guys. Yeah.

[00:37:58] How they make an exception to this versus that. And it's like, well, but they're kind of all part of the same dog shit that you want to avoid. So why is this different from that? And I can't do it because it's tone shift. One minute it's camp.

[00:38:12] The next minute it's serious. The next minute it's who gives a shit. I'm like, well, why do I give a shit? Well, and that is our show tonight. And please everyone follow Keith on the social media.

[00:38:28] All the other platforms, all those other shows with the action or crew. Yeah. You can you can find me on Twitter at Trek experts or if you're into serial at just pour the milk also on Instagram. But the big places are in your podcast feed.

[00:38:49] Mostly on Apple Music, but pretty much anywhere fine podcasts are served. You can listen to the Trek spurts roundtable and also just for the milk. I hope you if we really wanted to, we could have included plenty of other villains,

[00:39:01] plenty of others from DS9 and Voyager, plenty of others from even Axanar and of God's a man. But we decided to just go for the big ones. The right on the kisser ones. So there you go. We were on the nose tonight. On the nose.

[00:39:16] One knows to beam up. We'll return after these messages. Listen at Brentfuss.com, Apple podcast or wherever fine podcasts are found. Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win a fight between Goku and Superman?

[00:39:59] Hi, I'm James Cavsian on the who would win show me and my cohost Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world and debate fictional battles between characters from comics movies and video games. We got a new show every week and almost always am I the winner?

[00:40:13] Not true. Ray in the past we've discussed such matches as Captain America versus Darth Vader, Solid Snake versus the Iron Giant, classic matchups like Robocop versus Terminator and even the Muppets versus Sesame Street. That one was crazy.

[00:40:29] So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate, check out the who would win show wherever you get your podcast or check us out at who would win show.com. Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.

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