Social Topics Special: Sex Workers & the Misunderstandings They Endure (with Elite Model Amy Taylor!)

[00:00:06] It's a JackedUpReviewShow

[00:00:55] .

[00:00:57] I'm going to be doing a bigger chat on very big social topic, sex work.

[00:01:01] The betrayal on screen versus behind the scenes.

[00:01:05] And I got a few fun statistics to show.

[00:01:08] Not fun. That's not the right word, but just very intriguing and insightful as well as just talking about how many are trying to unionize that type of work now.

[00:01:21] You can let me know your thoughts on it too.

[00:01:23] Hence why you're here.

[00:01:25] So first off, how did you get into this type of profession?

[00:01:30] Yeah, so I have all the thoughts about like our rights versus our work and some of my thoughts are complicated. I will get into that later.

[00:01:37] But like, I don't think we're going to stop being complicated.

[00:01:40] No, we never. And you don't even have to like it to know that people deserve to like be less harmed. Right.

[00:01:48] That's kind of where I stand. I don't, I would not recommend anybody do this. I think it's too difficult. I would tell somebody to choose a different life.

[00:01:55] It's, it's the one I'm, you know, sort of fell into and made the best of and have knock on wood survive so far. But I cannot recommend it. I think it's too hard.

[00:02:04] It's too annoying.

[00:02:06] Even if you survive like so far I have.

[00:02:08] But yeah, you don't even have to like it or approve of it. You can still think it's sleazy or gross.

[00:02:13] But you do have to acknowledge not you, but the world has to acknowledge it will never go away. And therefore how can we make it less harmful for all those involved?

[00:02:21] And if you don't care about people being harmed, then I don't really know how to talk to you because that's kind of.

[00:02:26] Yeah, it's kind of like, it's kind of like talking to a war criminal is like, I think this conversation was over before we even got started.

[00:02:34] And then operating from the premise that most people would like the youngest and most vulnerable of us to make it to their older years, instead of being, you know, killed in a ditch before they even got a chance.

[00:02:46] There's an image. Yeah.

[00:02:48] That's a lot of who's in sex work is young broke people mostly women, but not all lots of men do. So, you know, I just want to be killed less and hurt and all the other harms less so anyway.

[00:02:59] So, I mean, you know, I'm not a big fan of the box. Sorry, but in terms of the portrayals in film, I'm sure you've seen there's been funny ones. There's been offensive ones.

[00:03:09] There's been ones that are overly complimentary like they're too good and it's it's not always really that good.

[00:03:19] Yeah, absolutely. And it kind of even just goes back to I mean, gigolo. Have you, have you seen that?

[00:03:26] Yeah, that there's that one they I still haven't seen the TV show version of it but um, with Roger Oh well, not not that one I thought you were talking about Richard Jufam.

[00:03:39] Oh, yeah no American jiggler was a classic. Okay, but that there's this other one on stars now I haven't seen yet, but I like what they've done with shows like power but I need to check it out it's called P Valley.

[00:03:51] I don't know that often. That's about strippers I forget where it's based but it's interesting how so many just assume it's only in one area.

[00:04:03] This kind of work and it's like no this goes from anyone to a scores to, you know, only porn.

[00:04:12] I in timescour we still have a peep show here in New York City. It's gross it's it's not doesn't do anything for me but I went once because I'm eternally curious.

[00:04:22] Curiosity man.

[00:04:24] I don't know that I need to go again but it was an experiment.

[00:04:29] You know, probably do spigolo male jiggler was a comedy it's Rob Schneider from Saturday he was in Saturday Night Live and I think people do spigolo European jiggler.

[00:04:39] It's very silly.

[00:04:40] I'll never forget when Roger Ebert gave a historical review and actually combated him when the comedians involved couldn't take a joke and he's like hey, I'm not attacking you.

[00:04:48] I'm just telling you your movie sucks.

[00:04:50] Yeah, right.

[00:04:52] I mean, and I wouldn't call do spigolo an excellent film, but it's funny and for some reason, the trope of like a male jiggler doesn't make the world fear and angry.

[00:05:08] They don't get fearful they don't want to infantilize it they sort of make fun of it sometimes it's a little bit silly, but I think they don't worry as much for the male safety because you know men are usually bigger than women and all that stuff.

[00:05:21] Physically, the public doesn't think of them as in as much danger as they do when the sex workers a woman.

[00:05:29] I think that's probably why I said probably largely for physical reasons. Yeah, comedian I should Tyler brought that up how it was this and she's not the first but there was this one historical interview I just remember bringing up I think it was one of her books and she's

[00:05:42] just talking about how it's like, why is it that you know when people get caught cheating you know the woman instantly gets the horse treatment but the guy gets off.

[00:05:50] Oh, he's an asshole.

[00:05:51] What.

[00:05:53] Neither of them might be me those things are complicated but maybe it's considered effort for men to get laid and total non effort for women to get laid. And so we like things that are that require effort.

[00:06:08] We never really reward behavior that is, is the default lowest energy state behavior right.

[00:06:15] We like people who are successful or get up early or till the farms or everything we everything we revere requires effort and getting laid for women.

[00:06:26] If you're good looking does not.

[00:06:29] Why well because you guys will give it away and so I blame you just kidding.

[00:06:34] Well, that's the other thing too why is it that guys who are responsible for so much shit.

[00:06:41] Always play the victim cart is like no no no you you you sewed this together you created this well.

[00:06:49] They want it but I always wondered why they don't like slots and trippy told in my world I've seen that men often do like slots they just can't admit it.

[00:06:58] And when they fall in love, of course we're jealous creatures when you love somebody.

[00:07:03] It can be scary to think that they might prefer sleeping with somebody else and then maybe even being with somebody else right.

[00:07:10] There's the Swinger thing and there's people who truly can separate love and sex but the data shows that swingers do break up more than non swingers.

[00:07:18] Everybody interesting Wow.

[00:07:21] How good is the data and everybody breaks up. I thought it was just when you're an open which was to me always.

[00:07:27] I have no experience with it but it always sounded to me like kind of a closed off denial.

[00:07:33] Yeah, we're together.

[00:07:35] But I know you're coming home late because it was someone else.

[00:07:39] Well, I mean I have friends who are in open relationships and they claim that it doesn't diminish that they can handle and they're not jealous and I struggle to totally believe them but that's just my own judgment because when I've been deeply in love.

[00:07:55] I have felt a little possessive. I try to navigate that as we all do but you know I'm a human being like anybody.

[00:08:03] I'm not a little hypocritical given my career choice but hey, nobody ever said we were logical creatures right. What is logic nowadays.

[00:08:13] There's so much to as I say now as they do. So on sexual alpha I sell some very awesome stats 16% of men said they'd paid for sex at least once in 0.5% say they do it at least once per year.

[00:08:29] 16.

[00:08:31] 97% of people arrested for buying prostitutes in the US or male. So that checks out I think between 70,000 and 80,000 are arrested for prostitution each year in the US and these arrests cost the taxpayers about 200 million.

[00:08:48] And it doesn't their recidivism rate is going to be like 100%. They, I don't think they did some documentary and they show the guy the guys being forced to go to one of these john classes when they get busted for.

[00:09:01] They were all in there laughing and high fiving each other and I I'm quite sure it does not stop them from doing it again.

[00:09:07] Yeah, it's, it's almost kind of an NBA player kind of logic to it where is this like well so I said something messed up but I did the apology and I still get paid anyway so it's kind of.

[00:09:19] It is almost like a dysfunctional classroom I mean my as a side reference my mother used to do a teaching at an inner city, and they were forcing everyone to pass every student.

[00:09:33] Students knew that so therefore they weren't obligated to learn anything.

[00:09:37] So, pretty broken system there.

[00:09:40] And I think a lot of this does seem to be very close minded and have the time we don't even want to take into account any kind of statistic any kind of learning any kind of environment.

[00:09:51] And that's continue about 57% of Americans think paying and accepting money for this act is morally wrong, and then it goes on to so many other statistics but I thought it was interesting here on average it's cheaper to get prostitution in Columbia than in most any other country in the world.

[00:10:12] Okay, which is thought on that.

[00:10:14] And how it's all kind of about the area. It's, it's kind of even beyond just any kind of culture.

[00:10:22] Yeah I mean I imagine the going rate must largely depend upon the cost of living.

[00:10:29] Just like most jobs depend upon cost of living. And of course, maybe the quality or the freedom I mean it's going to have to pay more if it's criminalized because there's more risk.

[00:10:40] So, in America that one county in Nevada where it's perfectly allowed outside of well there's two counties I guess anyway they're both in Nevada. Somewhere not far from Reno somewhere not far from Vegas.

[00:10:53] And those bubbles. It's very expensive because completely above board. There's no skimming and tax avoidance and all that their pan.

[00:11:04] They have to do medical checks and they have to, you know jump through all the legal loopholes. So the rates are actually quite high. And guys can't get away with any bad behavior there's cameras and security and no woman working there is going to let her boundaries be pushed sexually or safety

[00:11:21] otherwise, or otherwise, because he's being timed when he's at the brothel he can't get away with staying longer he can't get away with being unsafe because she's subject to medical exam she's not going to risk her career for this one client no matter what he offers her because if she catches something.

[00:11:36] She's done her career is over because they because they have mandatory testing.

[00:11:41] And so clients are often very unhappy with it because they get less. They feel less power for the money they spend and one of the major problems with getting sex work recognized as work is, is there is actually the customers.

[00:11:55] They don't enjoy being thought of as work.

[00:11:58] Right.

[00:11:59] That's not sexy to them is you know they want to think you like them they'd like to push boundaries they want to see if they can get unsafe sex they want to see if they can get more time for less money.

[00:12:07] If there's no legal system, they can get away with a lot more misbehavior. So, the, we are up against a barrier of wanting to be recognized as real work but the, the other half of the transaction hates that very thought.

[00:12:26] Yeah.

[00:12:27] I'm not like it thought of as being work I mean the the GFE is the big seller in my business. The less you act like it's work, the happier the customer is and I don't think much other work is like that you know when you go to Starbucks, they don't have to pretend they love giving you coffee for free to get you to return.

[00:12:47] In a way, it does seem kind of like drugs where many view it as or even just black market for going for guns people are going for assuming you're the supplier. And there's nothing more to it.

[00:13:00] But this is different in that yes you are pretending to initiate a plausible relationship and sometimes that would be a recurring deal.

[00:13:08] Yeah, and they're and when men are used to not paying for something. Of course there's cultural like you said 57% of people think it's morally wrong, even though, you know, in most marriages for almost all of human history the woman did not make any money.

[00:13:22] So it was a financial relationship of course he paid for everything and he got the woman.

[00:13:27] Maybe you had kids maybe you didn't maybe you got divorced maybe you didn't but you know it would be like if you went to Starbucks all your life and it was free and then suddenly they started charging you you'd probably be like hey what what the hell.

[00:13:38] So you wouldn't like it.

[00:13:40] So that's a that's another problem with sex work as work is that if, if the customer in any business can find the same product for free. They, they probably should try to write. That's that's smart consumerism.

[00:13:55] So if you're, if you're competing with free. There's a lot of hatred of pay now. Why would anybody pay when sure dating is possible for free or for cheap anyway cheaper.

[00:14:06] Yeah, the reasons they pay are either freedom you don't have to call her ever again if you don't want as Charlie sheen said you pay him to go away.

[00:14:15] You don't have to lie and say you love her say all that stuff.

[00:14:19] Often the woman is physically out of the guys league, either she's considerably younger.

[00:14:26] Or she's just way more beautiful than what he could get for free.

[00:14:30] Obviously, another big one is that he's married right payment is for her to not fuck up his life.

[00:14:38] And so, you know, we're an affair would the some of them are a lot lately are sort of socially awkward.

[00:14:49] People who don't have a lot of experience dating and a professional data is very good at putting people at ease and very good at usually getting along with strangers you know professional at dating.

[00:14:58] So there's a lot of reasons and then I've even heard nowadays when inflationary times in Manhattan where I live that taking a girl on three dinner dates to get to the third date where you get laid costs way more than an escort.

[00:15:18] If you have to go to restaurants and bars all night several times.

[00:15:25] I'm not sure about the math I guess it depends where you go, but yeah, that's that sounds like a big dinner anyone's wallet though.

[00:15:35] Sure.

[00:15:36] So, prostitute collective net had an interesting one on more than 70% of UK sex workers have previously worked in healthcare education or the voluntary sector and was increasing because poverty in their various areas but they also found that a migrant ones sex workers less than 6% have been

[00:15:59] abused. So I think that was interesting how that kind of put away that whole claim that hey they must be on drugs or they must have been abused or their, their services fund a trafficking organization is like not the case.

[00:16:14] It's really no different than back pages.

[00:16:17] Yeah, I mean trafficking is relatively rare where it does happen. It's horrific of course.

[00:16:22] Yeah, they're calling traffickers anyone who does management like online work and ads and answering emails for the sex worker they're calling that person a trafficker.

[00:16:32] You, right.

[00:16:33] That person may not be an abuser at all they may basically be a assistant.

[00:16:38] And yeah, I think that's wrong.

[00:16:42] I think that trafficker was meant to be someone who is sort of abusive taking too much of the money, negative thing and many of them that are being now given felonies for trafficking are not at all harmful people they're just working in an industry.

[00:16:57] Often yeah migrants people who traditional better jobs are not available to them for lots of reasons.

[00:17:03] I almost find it as bad as sharing movies on officially online. I'll often see people people use the term bootleg or piracy and it's like, these people didn't make money off of it. They're just sharing.

[00:17:16] I mean, the company certainly want you to share their goods.

[00:17:20] I mean, it tells you there's an audience but it's interesting how I will still see people throw that out. I'm like guys, we did a private screening or we did something on Dropbox and shared a movie between us.

[00:17:32] No income was made from that other person's work so that's not the right terminology in no way we're going to buy this movie multiple times in no way did we say, you know, let's make money off so and so.

[00:17:45] And those companies are doing just fine and I think yeah, they're.

[00:17:48] Yeah, I mean, there are situations. You know we all get emails every week from guys trying to finesse us into letting the managers and they're going to they're trying to get you to fall in love and then turn over all your money to them.

[00:18:03] They're trying to flip the script right they're trying to be FB you boyfriend experience and finesse you and I admire the hood spa, but it doesn't work with the smart ones but they'll continue to try and those are just people who

[00:18:15] can't get a regular job or don't want to and there's lots of people trying to do that already lack any people skills.

[00:18:21] Maybe I mean who knows they the the the statistic about them having worked in health care and education things well that's just where women work right.

[00:18:32] I mean, those are jobs traditionally more available to females.

[00:18:37] So that's not something I know lots of sex workers who are single mothers.

[00:18:42] And because of sex work their kid can be in private school the mom can work, you know, eight hours a week and make what a doctor makes so she can be home with her children.

[00:18:50] There's no other job that will pay that she had that these women have access to that will pay even remotely that well, not even close.

[00:18:57] So it is a choice and are all of them thrilled about it, not necessarily but it is the best choice of what's available to them.

[00:19:06] And largely financial but it's also it's a time thing going back to the father of their children would be worse.

[00:19:16] So complicated, like most things right.

[00:19:21] Yeah, don't even get me started on religious families and find out about this.

[00:19:26] They will always.

[00:19:29] It's even more fascinating to me when I see a scandal involving a religious family because it's like okay well now you're using that to hide behind a flaw that you can just address the vast majority of our clients are right wing religious conservative men.

[00:19:44] Yeah, that's, and I think there's something that maybe when it's more forbidden and transgressive it's more exciting.

[00:19:51] Why they are a pit they find it appealing.

[00:19:54] Well they're more likely to be married and want to try to stay married for image reasons for power for.

[00:20:01] They're older and that's who has the money right.

[00:20:06] But there are a lot of up and coming young men who are doing this they're not necessarily super religious or conservative it's not a sexism thing and I trying to have power but it's just an economic thing.

[00:20:17] They say it's, they have great dates that that go the way they want and they spend less money it's just just a logical move for them.

[00:20:25] You can't argue with the numbers and I don't know what, I don't think that's necessarily good.

[00:20:31] But a lot of them have this idea that when they're in their 20s and working on their career, they're not ready to get married and have children anyway they don't want to lie to some girl who might want that.

[00:20:40] So they'll just see companions for a few years and then maybe in in a few years, think about getting serious and dating for marriage later.

[00:20:48] So it's not illogical.

[00:20:50] It's not.

[00:20:52] It's not a wild though that it came to that seems maybe lonely.

[00:20:57] I mean, on happy marriage.

[00:21:00] Maybe not.

[00:21:01] Maybe they're fine with it.

[00:21:02] I mean, people tend to be pretty rational to your point about drugs.

[00:21:07] There's definitely drug use but I would, I mean, I don't know about that.

[00:21:11] I don't do drugs.

[00:21:12] I don't see people who do drugs.

[00:21:13] I don't have any friends who do drugs.

[00:21:15] But whether the percentage of people in sex work doing drugs is higher or lower than the gen pop.

[00:21:22] I'm not sure.

[00:21:23] I mean, I think a lot of people do drugs in America and in the world in general, right?

[00:21:28] Oh totally.

[00:21:29] I used to use Delta A THC gummies for sleep.

[00:21:32] Sure.

[00:21:33] That's fine.

[00:21:34] But if you unfortunately, and I found out like anyone else if you use too much of it, it does cause anxiety so but

[00:21:42] It is interesting.

[00:21:43] In no way am I condoning it saying, oh, it's awful.

[00:21:46] It's garbage.

[00:21:47] No, it's a fine product but like anything you got to use it in moderation or otherwise it'll just become a dent in your road.

[00:21:53] I never liked weed.

[00:21:55] It made me antisocial and sleepy and hungry.

[00:21:58] But my sister really liked it.

[00:22:00] She smoked so much pot in college they didn't have all these gummies and things back then.

[00:22:05] But she got serious paranoia like borderline like she had.

[00:22:11] She thought things were she would have been one of these that believed in all the conspiracy theories nowadays because she

[00:22:16] Oh God.

[00:22:17] She had thoughts that were not connected to reality and so she quit and I don't think she's done it since it's been more than 20 years.

[00:22:27] But for me, it was never I just didn't like it.

[00:22:31] Fair enough.

[00:22:32] I mean, I'm not a big drinker but I know, you know, in no way am I going to become one of the 50s, you know, prohibition types.

[00:22:42] You're like, oh, do away with it all.

[00:22:44] It's bad.

[00:22:45] And it's like, no, just there's not needs for anything.

[00:22:48] And your two year point about moderation.

[00:22:51] There are people that cannot handle sex work like they go down the rabbit hole of addiction to companions and they ruin their lives.

[00:22:59] They spend way too much money.

[00:23:01] They ruin their family.

[00:23:03] They I mean, maybe you can get addicted to anything.

[00:23:06] I'm not sure.

[00:23:08] But that does happen even in this business where they go hog wild and they got to see everybody and they lose their job and flip out.

[00:23:15] Yeah, I'm sure if they got any bad social skills that stuff like a mess them up.

[00:23:21] I mean, they were just one I'm thinking of who really ruined his life was lived in a small town that he hated. He was he was from a huge international city moved somewhere for work that he really hated was bored, super bored, and he made a lot of money

[00:23:39] and had nothing to spend it on.

[00:23:41] And so Wow, he found out about companions and he went nuts and then sugar babies and then girlfriends and then. Yeah, he fucked up his whole life.

[00:23:50] He's okay now he's kind of rebuilding it but I think it was a problem of board of time and money right he had too much time and too much money.

[00:23:59] I mean he should have gotten a different hobby I guess or something.

[00:24:02] I almost sounds like one of the many who have a midlife crisis because they have a strict family.

[00:24:09] Yes, essentially tells them you must do this so.

[00:24:14] He was deeply Catholic and midlife crisis you're you're absolutely right.

[00:24:18] He never thought this is what I want to do he never developed actual persona outside of words so there you go.

[00:24:24] Maybe that's a suit.

[00:24:26] I guess that's a trope huh I didn't grow up religious so I don't have enough shame.

[00:24:30] My family, fortunately say if you want to be do that you can have the option but they were very, very liberal about it saying hey just take it easy.

[00:24:41] You know, just like even the religions of the world classes just bring it all in understand the different form formats and decide what is going to make your world really come compiled together but.

[00:24:55] That's nice.

[00:24:56] It's, but it's easier said than done you're still gonna have that judgemental neighbor who's like what religion are you I'm not judging yeah sure you're not.

[00:25:05] Yeah I mean, I don't know what city you're in.

[00:25:08] I'm in Dallas.

[00:25:10] I'm in Dallas a little more cosmopolitan than it used to be. I'm not sure it can be there's still some some of that the issue I find between going between downtown Dallas and downtown Fort Worth is just like out of pass for a lot of lesser inner cities.

[00:25:30] It's just very annoying just seeing how so blatantly poor in some places versus middle class versus elite. It really is like you just can't hide it. It's very apparent the minute you pass through whichever part of town you're in.

[00:25:46] That's unfair. I had a girlfriend who lived in Fort Worth and she was so mad that Dallas was growing and getting too big. She was a real cowgirl she didn't like big town.

[00:25:55] There is a lot of rivalry. You still see.

[00:25:59] Even with Austin and Houston you will see people say I work with you but unless you're from that city I'm like what's going on here.

[00:26:08] She's like I bring a bag lunch when I go to Dallas because I'm not spending any money there and like she was sort of kidding but but then you have to Texas against the whole world. Of course she's a tough kid, but they're really not so it's like any of your friends playing a prank on you is like keep saying that word I don't think you know what it means.

[00:26:26] I mean I love how much Texas loves America and Texas loves Texas.

[00:26:32] I have the.

[00:26:33] Oh baby.

[00:26:35] Great I have the San Jacinto flag in my foyer because I used to work for an oil company that was headquartered in Houston.

[00:26:41] Yeah and I loved my time. I used to be in Texas every other week for like gosh six or seven years. I really enjoyed Texas. I think it's a spectacular state that is unapologetically pro Texas is great.

[00:26:59] Nice.

[00:27:00] It's they like themselves and they have every right to there's a lot of great stuff there, especially there is.

[00:27:05] I mean, I know why am I trying to show my state. It's interesting how it goes in different forms and you never know who's into this versus that.

[00:27:15] Sure. I mean we shit on New Jersey but in the end.

[00:27:19] I encountered so many people from New Jersey and they hate it when I do an impression of like from a Saturday night live or something like that's not how we talk I'm like I'm sure it's not I'm just.

[00:27:29] I read a thing that it's regarded, it's widely regarded as the ugliest accent in the world the New York New Jersey accent.

[00:27:36] Interesting.

[00:27:38] It sounds pretty self deprecating mixed in with cynicism.

[00:27:43] I mean, I'm not sure if you're a fan of the people in this part of the world. Yeah, kind of angry like but still will help you out but still tell you to go fuck yourself while we're helping you out.

[00:27:53] That's how we are.

[00:27:56] That's just it too. It's interesting how it's so common now I see a mixture of the insult comedian persona mixed in with the butcher's kidding and like yeah sure you are.

[00:28:08] I'll tell you nobody will stand up for you more than a New Yorker because some nonsense happens here like at least every decade something really bad.

[00:28:18] And these people, they, you cannot keep them down. And they're also very proudly American right the financial center 911 here.

[00:28:28] There's a lot of security here. So there's a lot to argue about but in the end.

[00:28:34] The New York is where all the capitalism stuff began. I mean, so there's a sort of patriotism here, a little different from Texas but but not totally so right and lovely. Yeah it's nice right.

[00:28:49] People they they won't acknowledge Manhattan at all they hate us. But in the end, you know, so there's some of that saying off the grid kind of fused that people like it if they're in said city it's almost

[00:29:03] like baseball kind of in football but they're, they're doing it in the form of my our state and we're sitting on each other.

[00:29:12] Oh we have a name for so when we fight among ourselves and sex work. We have a great name that you'll like for it we call it the hierarchy, like hierarchy.

[00:29:22] So the fight between who is a higher price or lower price, who sees more clients or fewer clients and you know because we're a bunch of bitches that fight with each other to but in the end, we're all trying to.

[00:29:34] We have a reference system where we keep each other alive by behind the scenes telling each other that's a good guy that's a bad guy.

[00:29:41] Even like there's girls I don't like there's plenty of girls who don't like me women I mean not girls sorry.

[00:29:48] And even the ones you hate will like participate in the reference system because God it's just like Dallas and Fort Worth might have each other, but we're stuck here together so hold my hand idiot let's do that proud of

[00:30:00] who we are even if we were self loading stock right.

[00:30:04] Where else are you gonna go like family, I guess.

[00:30:07] I was fortunate enough to have adult film star Derek Pierce on the show previously and he talked a lot about how we all want the same thing.

[00:30:17] Sure, just don't know how to say it.

[00:30:19] Yes.

[00:30:20] This is true.

[00:30:22] And I loved how he kind of had a confrontational kind of approach he's like anyone talks rumors. We're gonna have that we're going to go outside. I'm gonna have a conversation.

[00:30:32] Wow. Okay, I like it.

[00:30:35] Because, especially in his part of the industry, you know, you get so many people are like don't work with that guy he or she is too rough or they're just an asshole they just, or they have poor hygiene and like yeah that's definitely

[00:30:50] no no in any area or any kind of profession.

[00:30:54] I mean, it's funny in porn male porn stars get the brunt of like they get made fun of they don't get paid as well. They're, it's funny they don't get to start them nearly as much as well as the women not even close to my knowledge I've never done porn so I might be wrong but that was my understanding.

[00:31:15] Yeah, funny what looks good on film like I quite locked. I used to really like to watch like Rocco Sophretti, but I don't know I might be terrified to get fucked that way I don't know.

[00:31:26] Yeah, it might be fun but I'd be scared. Yeah, even then you would still.

[00:31:34] I think my issue is with how toxic the internet can be you would still have just a bunch of people just stalking you online I'm like good Lord dude I.

[00:31:43] Don't want your number.

[00:31:44] I think it's being a male porn star is not that easy to get hard on command to finish on command.

[00:31:52] It's, it is actually a skill.

[00:31:56] I mean, I think so I knew a guy who he saw a porn a girl who also did porn was a companion and a porn star.

[00:32:06] And they got along really well, he would see her from time to time. He was a civilian he had a regular corporate job, but she decided to film a gang bang porn and so she needed 100 men.

[00:32:17] She called him it was like your number.

[00:32:20] Well, and this guy said yes.

[00:32:23] He was like, what the hell I'm single. Like, and she said you could wear sunglasses and we won't, you know, you'll just be in the background and he took a chance and he said he could not do it.

[00:32:35] He could not get hard and he could not be part of this gang bang so he never ended up in the film it got cut.

[00:32:41] But he said he was so impressed with the guys who could like go to town in front of 99 another man because he couldn't he got he got stage fright.

[00:32:50] Well, and that's a good point to I have been fortunate to be on film sets, just doing some extra work or production assistant stuff and same kind of deal you're going to meet so many personas some are very intimidating and, but they all ultimately fall under you know the time is money.

[00:33:07] If you can't get this done before lunch break, you know, you're off of here, and it's nothing personal it's just so and so referred me to you and now there were doesn't mean anything or

[00:33:19] I think the quality is probably the main key to success I think the only way I was able to pay my rent and survive as I was reliable I never missed a flight I never flaked on a guy.

[00:33:29] It wasn't about the money of course, but these rich guys. It's not the money it's their time. If you waste your time, you're done. You're out of their lives and that's a big enough punishment because you don't get an opportunity to meet people like that very often.

[00:33:43] And some of them really like you and can do huge things for you I never really took advantage of that but I know women who've started businesses and married clients and really elevated their social status because of sex work.

[00:33:57] Not that that's not always a given but it does happen.

[00:34:01] And so wasting a powerful person's time or like you said somebody who's paying a bunch of crew and doing a shoot like it's not only is it rude but it's stupid.

[00:34:12] Well, and there's all those other film crew members also they'll often they know how you know they don't have a problem doing any kind of movie but they'll often go under a different alias because they know how they're going to instantly get judged the

[00:34:25] many people find out they've worked on, you know, a program you can't see if you're under 18, you know, I know a lot of makeup artists who have to make up artist profiles.

[00:34:36] And they're like bridal and children's makeup and the other one they do porn because it pays the bills.

[00:34:42] And apparently doing porn makeup is harder because it has to stay on.

[00:34:48] That makes sense. I knew there are some stunt men who also had to be the stunt dick so to speak.

[00:34:54] And that same kind of deal is like not really but the beauty of that is if the movie is good or bad.

[00:35:02] It doesn't really matter.

[00:35:04] Right, you get work because people know you behind the scenes.

[00:35:09] And I almost feel like a lot of this judgment behind the scenes it's just as bad as video games view games have never been actually scientifically proven to have caused all these in cell gunman and shooters.

[00:35:21] Yeah, of course. But often they're still the scapegoat because parents don't play it.

[00:35:26] Not all parents. They're just like, you're melting your brain you're becoming a dumbass I'm like well if you're already very dumb and having no social interaction games might give you some, you know, some motivation so to speak to be a shit head but

[00:35:42] they're not actually telling him.

[00:35:44] They used to blame punk music back.

[00:35:47] You're gonna become a demon warship.

[00:35:50] I was born and all that and they they now know a lot games do a lot of good things for the brain like spatial awareness and if anything they take out the misbehaving stuff by you're doing it in a virtual world.

[00:36:05] So you're right.

[00:36:07] There was some study that when crime shows used to be on this is when cable before even on demand when you had to watch stuff live.

[00:36:15] So the Thursday night like CSI.

[00:36:19] Your VCR.

[00:36:21] Yeah.

[00:36:23] Well they said violent crime would go down largely because people stayed home and didn't go out and get drunk and go to bar and end up in a fight you know all that goes along with that.

[00:36:34] There you go.

[00:36:35] A bad judgment.

[00:36:37] You're not going home and playing a video game.

[00:36:39] And yet to your point the outlet.

[00:36:41] You cannot suppress people's outlets for rage.

[00:36:45] And yeah, pretend violence of course you don't want people to do it in real life and that should be punished always will be but people need a steam valve they need to fuck.

[00:36:55] They need to curse they need to be anonymous online and pretend to be somebody else because it's more fun than reality.

[00:37:03] And all that has always existed and always will need to video games are just when it crosses over and somebody wants to do problems and do shenanigans in real life.

[00:37:14] Obviously, obviously that's not the majority because most people play video games and most people are not shooting up schools.

[00:37:21] Yeah, it can't be that video games are monstrously huge in Asia, and they don't even really have a school shooting problem.

[00:37:30] Pretty much. I'm kind of the same way with just kind of any kind of videos where I'm like hey I'm, I'm not for watching all these morbid or gross videos and same thing with a video game if I don't game anymore but hey, if a video game is giving you the option to do something

[00:37:46] gross cool let it happen, give an adult rating whatever you know it's just, you might as well invite the curiosity so you prevent someone from doing that in person.

[00:37:57] And pretending that people don't have a sort of need for a steam valve that might include pretending violence in a safe way not.

[00:38:07] Well, it's didn't of course but that's denying reality it's the same thing is denying that like a lot of people right now want to want to deny that teenagers fuck and like there's this weird.

[00:38:20] Yeah.

[00:38:21] So I taught sex education when I was a senior in high school we taught it to middle school students.

[00:38:25] Oh really.

[00:38:26] And in the inner city the average age of loss of virginity was like 12.

[00:38:30] And so we knew that and so there's all this defunding now, people are like don't have sex and I'm like well then they're gonna get curious.

[00:38:38] What are you going to stop them from plucking with all those hormones that are happening at people it's nonsense.

[00:38:43] And I, we were 1718 we learned that these younger kids would talk to us in a way that wouldn't talk to adults because we were older but not like a lot older.

[00:38:53] They would have told us more right. But that's why they sent us in instead of some 40 year old that it can that middle school or wouldn't even talk to.

[00:39:01] But now I'm sure that program wouldn't be allowed we would have been called pedophiles or something talking to, and of course we were not even though we're trying to.

[00:39:11] It's a gray area there's going to be someone who, you know did something in mature at an early age but they still got to figure out how to care for their baby and

[00:39:21] the fact that they lost their virginity at that young age.

[00:39:24] Sure, it happens a lot I don't know my sister had kids when her kids were they're older now but when they were teenagers.

[00:39:31] I remember her being very uncomfortable about having to talk about adult material with her children.

[00:39:39] And I remember thinking your discomfort is not your child's problem.

[00:39:43] That's a you problem right.

[00:39:45] Your kids are gonna fuck.

[00:39:47] Hopefully not too soon but they're gonna fuck because they're human beings and everybody does.

[00:39:52] Right, I suggest you get comfortable with that reality, rather than play ostrich, which is weird.

[00:39:59] So I don't know like same thing with violence I think there's better channels for it. I don't know what they used to do 1000 years ago.

[00:40:07] Guess they sent young men off into war I guess that's what we use that or use some another kind of low brow like be a wrestler or.

[00:40:16] Yeah, boxing and things right.

[00:40:18] I did martial arts when I was like junior high. It wasn't for me because I wasn't mature. I just thought hey this will be instant like no.

[00:40:27] You like it.

[00:40:31] I don't know if I would have liked it. It really depends. I wasn't in a mature frame of mind and my teacher was kind of just do or die kind of guy so I think it really depends on your teacher and your frame of mind, if you're in a good spot, but like anything if you're not prepared to make time for it it's not going to be worth it anyway so.

[00:40:53] Yeah everything taken martial arts take years and years to get really good right I mean that's a that's a long game.

[00:40:59] I still have respect for it and I will call out people who are pretending saying I know how to you know I don't come through I'm like you took one class asshole.

[00:41:08] Calm down. Which one did you which one did you study.

[00:41:12] I'm sure it was just like a beginner self defense.

[00:41:17] My dad did judo when he was young.

[00:41:20] Oh, he's going to grappling I don't know I never took it. I think it is a mixture of that and I have much respect for anyone who can do a crop McGon Brazilian jujitsu but every once in a while you'll see an announcer who's introducing someone and you can tell they don't know the different styles

[00:41:37] and they're not going to be playing that part and they're unintentionally kind of offending someone like I think there was that recently there was like an animated movie that was out recently and someone was saying hey you guys how do you like playing these roles but he clearly thought they were live action like

[00:41:54] playing cartoon characters for the voice food.

[00:41:57] That's funny. Yeah, we did not actually it's not me.

[00:42:00] That's an idol girlfriend in high school who became a black belt and tight window like the one where you like kick people in the head.

[00:42:07] I mean she was real athletic she was a track athlete she was a gifted athlete in general sounds like a mixture of kickboxing don't quote me on that but yeah something like that it was I took to crowd McGon classes.

[00:42:18] I was in Oakland, California and I sucked of course but I don't made me want to see if I like because I've never been in a physical fight. I'm not going to win at my size.

[00:42:28] I don't want to fight as many violent action movies as I've watched or outrageous horror films. I had what do I want to fight for like actually gotten into fight.

[00:42:38] Yeah, I've been pretty good at just getting like just like kind of smart.

[00:42:43] I was in kindergarten as far back and I remember someone just stampled out stopped over me and so that was my kind of opening to the world where I was like, yeah, I kind of I don't trust anyone in this world.

[00:42:53] That was like my, I was little and my older sister was she's taller she's 511 I'm five six. And so I was big bite her because that's all I had.

[00:43:02] I would bite her right. I mean not like now I'm a snake.

[00:43:06] I didn't do this last week, but I would bite her right in the ass right in the butt cheek.

[00:43:12] It was a solid self defense move.

[00:43:15] Oh my God, that's great.

[00:43:17] My parents had to call me off after a while like it couldn't be the kid who bites everybody.

[00:43:21] I got in trouble for my brother is four years younger than me and he can kick my ass because people he's bigger than me.

[00:43:27] And people are like, Oh, he's your older brother. I'm like, shut the fuck up. He's not my older brother but he always gets me in a hell. But one thing I am always good at doing is headbutting him.

[00:43:37] Okay.

[00:43:38] I had to be told stop that.

[00:43:41] I mean your brother, that's who you get to pummel. That's the rule.

[00:43:46] That was my only weapon.

[00:43:49] We were I mean older sisters, we're two and a half years apart. My parents had an apartment in Hawaii.

[00:43:54] We lived in.

[00:43:55] So it's already a crib space.

[00:43:57] Well, it was just a four hour flight. So we got a lot of Californians go over to Hawaii a lot like Mexico because it's not that far.

[00:44:04] They went off to like go run errands and we were I don't know 10 and 12, just little preteen jerks, you know, wanted to play 10 volleyball and I wanted to play tennis at like the little apartment, you know, tennis court and volleyball thing on the beach.

[00:44:19] And we couldn't agree on which one to play.

[00:44:22] But we couldn't do either one of them without the other right.

[00:44:25] And it descended into such a fight that she went in the kitchen and grabbed one of the knives. Now she didn't try to come after me, but she was brandishing it like you're going to play volleyball with me bitch.

[00:44:37] And my dad comes back to the apartment and we're standing there crying and she's got the kitchen, the cake knife.

[00:44:44] He asked what happened. And we explained that it's a fight in Hawaii over whether we play tennis or volleyball.

[00:44:51] And he forever called us the Jewish American princesses, like for the next 20 years.

[00:44:56] This is what I work so fucking hard for is for you guys to stab each other over what you're going to play in Hawaii you spoiled jerks.

[00:45:05] Parents always take it so personally is like this doesn't

[00:45:09] It really doesn't show on you. It's only people only take this personally if you are like insulting like where'd you get that motor mouse from.

[00:45:18] Well, siblings, you know it's good for us right.

[00:45:23] Yeah my sister I got outed as I mean I've done lots of other things graduate school and science and worked in oil and done other but the sex work part of my life I had a stalker and he outed me and that does that dissolved my family relationship for two years

[00:45:38] they didn't speak to me and to lose your family even you know your brother that you pummel or your sister that you bite.

[00:45:45] You think you're okay but it's like losing your anchor in the ocean.

[00:45:50] And when we all finally reconciled and they've they've decided to love me even given my choices, which is a grace I don't deserve and can't repay.

[00:46:00] We don't talk about what I do they hate it, but they love me.

[00:46:04] And so I'll never I'll never bite her again because she's still nice to me even given the shame I've brought my family and when I had the stalker, she said did you ever think about us did you know because sometimes stalkers go after your family to hurt you.

[00:46:18] Luckily this person this person did not.

[00:46:21] The truth is I had not thought about that. I was young and wild and greedy and dumb. And I did not think about other people. I just wanted to do what I wanted to do right.

[00:46:32] Fair enough. I mean we all learned to just kind of think outside the box.

[00:46:38] Hopefully you mature and luckily nothing happened with the stalker but well I put him in prison and now he's rebuilt his life and so far so good.

[00:46:47] But it's yeah your actions touch other people in ways that sometimes you can't predict right.

[00:46:56] Yeah, maybe that's good it keeps you from going postal or doing anything that's too bad.

[00:47:02] Hopefully you should anyway but for me like it's good to think about family right.

[00:47:09] Probably should have 20 years ago but hey, oh well.

[00:47:13] So as a fun transition. You said before your big entertainment how the big above and you get started on compound media and getting the sacred cow or fun collective.

[00:47:28] How did you get into movies and TV growing up.

[00:47:32] Well, you know, always been my sister has a master's degree in film theory.

[00:47:37] My father's from Europe and we grew up watching all the musical stuff as he's an immigrant to America and he loves America more than those of us who were just born here and that's all we know.

[00:47:47] So this sort of nice, the golden age stuff like Jean Kelly Fred Astaire like all those American musicals I mean that was our father like.

[00:47:57] And I love Bollywood movies. I think they're sort of innocent and lovely and they always have fun and they have their missions and they're so long.

[00:48:08] And I do like stuff that scares you sometimes the real gory stuff starts to be a little silly.

[00:48:17] Yeah, but I like I like mysteries and creepy ones because man they make you hang on. It's like mental chewing gum right.

[00:48:24] When you want to catch the killer or you want to know what happened.

[00:48:28] You're looking around your corner even though you know it's a movie.

[00:48:31] Sure.

[00:48:32] Oh, that.

[00:48:34] And yeah, I mean, so I had a very stressful year in 2017 everything ended up fine but I remember asking my mom like, okay, I got a slog through something that's going to take a few months.

[00:48:45] There's no fast forward button. It's stressful. It'll be fine but we get through these months and she said, go to big screen movies.

[00:48:53] When you can when you have a couple hours and go for it.

[00:48:56] It is such a great dropout, especially the big screen. I missed it so much in COVID because you can't look at your phone or you shouldn't.

[00:49:05] Unlike at home right.

[00:49:08] Yeah.

[00:49:09] And the sound is better and that.

[00:49:12] Yeah, I mean the theater, the live movie theater I still do it alone often because it's dropping out from reality.

[00:49:20] I always turn the lights off and like, game time.

[00:49:23] When you watch it.

[00:49:25] Yeah, totally. I'm just like might as well get the experience here.

[00:49:29] Got the 1080.

[00:49:31] Well, and obviously I've modeled and then it became social stuff which was always behind the scenes video and it's not really acting but it's a little bit of acting.

[00:49:42] And you appreciate the work that goes into it more. It's like it's not just me that shows up, you know, and the person who clears the checks on the least and the talent is the least important least talented person I think usually at least in modeling you're

[00:49:56] literally just standing there because you, you're a happy accident.

[00:50:00] I mean, it's not like I'm doing it all at once in a lifetime. But the crew what they can create the is spectacular so every time I do a shoot I'm, it's pleasure to be around crew and see what they can do.

[00:50:15] So,

[00:50:16] Oh, no, you'll be wrong. I mean, the cinematographer is very invaluable but if they're one with a big head, definitely do a background check and make sure they're not the kind that you know, really takes over a set from a director or, you know, it's just

[00:50:29] like, I'm un-sufferable. They're just, oh yeah, there are definitely some who just are talking so much back that it looks bad. I'm like you're just saying that because you didn't shoot it asshole.

[00:50:39] You know, it's just like, come on.

[00:50:41] Stanley Kubrick liked to make his actors like actually scared or actually miserable. Like he wanted the emotions to. Yeah, I don't understand that at all. It's just like, dude, they are here for you, but there's a limit, you know.

[00:50:54] And I'm not talking smack about method actors either. I mean, there's some who obviously go too far but if you're just talking in character as the character, I get it. You know, that makes sense.

[00:51:04] Sure.

[00:51:05] You're treating it like a brand.

[00:51:07] Well and so much, so many stars like they're basically a commodity. We're going to watch Tom Cruise be Tom Cruise sometimes or Julia Roberts was always Julia Roberts.

[00:51:20] But I like it when they lose themselves more. I like it when the actor disappears more. Oh, absolutely. I speak of sex work. I always love it when I see some show like SVU or Criminal Minds and the villain of that episode happens to be a former sitcom star or dramatic

[00:51:37] actor and you're like, see? Play you for a fool.

[00:51:41] When Kevin Costner did that great movie where he's a murderer, Mr.

[00:51:45] Mr. Brooks.

[00:51:46] Yeah. So I know, I probably don't, I don't know what the rotten tomatoes on it but I are on it but I love that movie.

[00:51:52] And you're like, you can't kill Dane Cook.

[00:51:55] But he, but they do. Sorry.

[00:51:57] Sorry if you're listening to this and you haven't watched that movie. I just ruined it for you. Well not really.

[00:52:02] I mean, in all fairness, I mean, sometimes these movies, you should totally spoil them because then it makes people want to actually watch them and then you can examine it beyond the twist.

[00:52:11] I find that if you can examine it beyond the colorful plot twist, it's actually a better movie than you give it credit for versus hey, that's the billion, you know, seven or six cents knockoff.

[00:52:23] Good point. And well, and what was so interesting to me is this affable Kevin Costner, you never see him like that.

[00:52:30] No, even to me more. I've never seen her play a detective like that. I've never seen William Hurt be an evil, like ego headed side of someone split persona.

[00:52:40] Well, and I obviously I'd be afraid of a movie where a sex worker was like abjectly evil. But there was that recent TV show with Elvis's granddaughter is it his granddaughter is nice.

[00:52:53] God, it was that and it was called.

[00:53:00] I just wrote it down for this girlfriend experience. Oh yeah, based on the Soderbergh show and I think he's a little bit of a show too but yeah, I know what you mean.

[00:53:11] No that's a different one.

[00:53:13] Riley, but I, yeah, I know Riley co- she's not like great. She's not.

[00:53:21] She's not like a perfect yeah the girlfriend she's kind of imperfect. She's kind of an asshole. She's kind of.

[00:53:29] And I think I liked it because that's how people really are right. But I know what you mean it.

[00:53:35] Yeah, it is always an effort to try and make sure the stereotype doesn't become too cartoonish or make people think that's how most I get very annoyed when I see that there's a white savior or there is the woman is only the damsel and can't defend herself without the guy and it's like well you're sending a message even if you don't mean it.

[00:53:56] People mimic media I mean I think Pretty Woman was probably really good for our business in the 90s because every guy wanted to have his Richard gear fantasy and that was great for our business.

[00:54:07] Yeah, you know if they make a movie where the sex worker is like some garbage person that's probably not great for our industry.

[00:54:15] I mean, let's say they're supporting character I want to make sure they're not the only negative influence in the person's life or only the criminal informant. It's like well you're kind of saying something about that even though.

[00:54:27] Sure.

[00:54:28] It's all backfire.

[00:54:30] Well, and Americans like things neatly tied up like they really do even though isn't it funny how some of them are the same ones who hate it.

[00:54:38] When it is all neatly tied up they're like oh it's formulaic I'm like well you asked for the happy endings.

[00:54:44] They do those test screenings and particularly Americans they hate I read the original ending of Pretty Woman.

[00:54:51] Yeah it was originally a dark movie for like trauma.

[00:54:55] They just part ways he dumps her and she's back on the street like and that's the end of the movie, which is far more accurate honestly.

[00:55:03] Yeah.

[00:55:04] Like they you know usually that's the guy does not come in his limo to pick you up from the hood.

[00:55:12] Yeah, essentially turned into Cinderella okay fine.

[00:55:17] But what's your take on flash dance.

[00:55:21] I know it's not it's not a sex worker movie by any stretch of the mind but it does bring up to mine.

[00:55:26] How someone wants to be a dancer it's kind of a foot loose type story in a very sleazy world.

[00:55:32] And then other movies later like showgirls which is a sad tire but a lot of people take legit serious.

[00:55:40] Is the worst movie ever made.

[00:55:42] It's really shitty don't get me wrong it's a bad movie and I love for hoping but that movie I've tried rewatching it and I'm like no, no, no.

[00:55:51] I mean what's her name in showgirls?

[00:55:55] Oh Liz Berkeley yeah.

[00:55:57] I mean the only better piece of acting she ever did was in Saved by the Bell where she like took too many like diet pills.

[00:56:04] Yeah.

[00:56:06] She just poor thing.

[00:56:08] She was lovely I mean the dancing the shape she got in all handed to her she went to her trainer.

[00:56:13] Too many cooks and I couldn't do like because you are seeing so many people who act like they're in a crappy you know like late night HBO movie and then you see other people in it who are taking it very campion like so again, no one was giving the right direction on how to approach this whole subject matter.

[00:56:27] So I think they did more and there was the one actress, the black gal who gets assaulted, Jean Rivera, like she almost gave up acting because she apparently the actor accidentally socked her in the face during that scene.

[00:56:40] Oh really.

[00:56:41] And then she got in the acting zone so they really traumatized her that she hasn't really done much she had a brief recurring role on the TV show the closer which I recommend everybody but and which believe it or not actually does bring up with male prostitution subplot.

[00:56:56] Yeah, they have a character who's basically selling his body on the street and they get the gay for so to speak and he's having to get away from his attackers and other people who are molesting him sometimes for free.

[00:57:10] Oh God.

[00:57:12] But they were also very careful about that just showing hey you know he's he has a choice in this whole thing and

[00:57:20] Ryan Murphy's pose season one did a great the transgender sex worker started on the peers and I loved that.

[00:57:30] I didn't realize it dealt with that I'd only seen close from that so

[00:57:34] It's good and the treatment of somebody who's not at the high end not privileged and transgender and like the very nice affection between her and a client and how he reckons with being attracted to somebody transgender when that's

[00:57:47] He didn't know that about himself and how he feels.

[00:57:50] It is always so what I will always see that I will see someone looking at a model and then they find out later out of the back out it's, but he or she used to be him or her and it's like, come on.

[00:58:03] Beauty is beauty.

[00:58:05] It's a very I've had clients who are very curious about having that experience but couldn't often couldn't deal with the self shame and I don't know whether the one I'm thinking in particular I don't know whether he ever did or checked it off his life bucket list or

[00:58:21] didn't I hope he did because he wanted to but he had lots of shame about it which was a bummer.

[00:58:27] Yeah, I just would like the spandex from flash dance to come back that's all I'll say about like right.

[00:58:33] Oh my god the 80s right like I was born at the very end of the 70s and so I was an 80s kid and the outfits like, I think it was based on a real girl real one.

[00:58:43] Yeah, the Esther house guy said on all those movies that he was he just kept for the so called research he would actually encounter various real life people but at the same time is like well.

[00:58:56] Some of that's going to be lost on the shelf and you're gonna have to take with a grain of salt.

[00:59:00] I have a friend who's an exotic dancer in Long Island and she was a UCLA professor. She was interesting.

[00:59:06] She's brilliant and she same can very conservative life, you know, obeying all the rules.

[00:59:12] You can't do that.

[00:59:14] He's having a lot of fun.

[00:59:16] She's like 38 now and she was like I want to be sexy and explore that side of my life before I get old.

[00:59:23] Instead of repress and deny yourself any joy or life.

[00:59:28] She's learning the pole dancing and all that stuff and she's right now having fun and I hope she's safe and has a great time.

[00:59:35] She's but I don't know flash dance. I mean the follow your dreams thing is kind of nice that she's like chasing a dream.

[00:59:42] Nothing wrong with that.

[00:59:45] I did the bottom for actually not showing any actual sex because I feel like that's all that movie would have been remembered for.

[00:59:52] Yes, versus the whole get out of the gutters and into a better lifestyle.

[00:59:58] This sort of whore with a heart of gold right stripper with the heart of gold or sex worker of any kind porn stars.

[01:00:05] I have met many porn stars are some of the most refreshing people I've ever met because when somebody is putting it all out there there's nothing left to hide or lie about.

[01:00:14] Yeah, that's what I always found so funny when you see it saw some of them trying to become Congress people is like really what can you say to embarrass me.

[01:00:22] Yeah, they have no shame and it's actually kind of nice.

[01:00:25] Might even get you elected.

[01:00:27] I remember when I met and I had just become a companion, and I was still in that beginning of like, nobody knew I didn't think I would get outed and I was like I'm only going to do this for a little while and you know I'm not like all the rest I was still stupid like that.

[01:00:40] And she just laughed.

[01:00:42] She's like, you love dating, you love traveling with rich guys like, you're not just going to do this for a little while. She's like, you're going to win it.

[01:00:50] Well she knew me better than I knew myself and she was right.

[01:00:54] I think.

[01:00:56] And a lot of dancers are sort of nice ethical people who have dreams and it's a means to an end. I think that recently it was very good hustlers with Jennifer Lopez.

[01:01:06] Those dancers were not the best people, and you know in real life they got a lot of legal trouble for what they did as as they should you can't drug clients.

[01:01:15] I know it's a sad tire I had trouble getting through it but I understand the appeal of it I will say the final song they dance to Whitney Houston's I want to dance I thought that was very, that was perfect for the satire.

[01:01:26] I mean, it's a heist movie essentially right right Ramona is a garbage person she's in the same chain in the same vein of like Wolf of Wall Street, you're not supposed to like her.

[01:01:41] You're supposed to be fascinated by her.

[01:01:43] Although I will admit that hustler does a good job of just reminding you what you're in for without having to remind any of the trolls in the audience, although I will say I, I asked you with Wolf of Wall Street was.

[01:01:57] I had already seen just so many movies about gamblers and tycoons and stockbrokers, and I think my issue is, I don't feel like they were successful at showing that he was garbage.

[01:02:09] You know he's garbage but they make him, they make all those people so cool at being awful. So I'm just like, what are you trying to do like, I don't know.

[01:02:18] I'm watching the show suits now. And I seeing some of those people who are having a debate when it's very clear cut that you wouldn't want to be any of these people but they all have truths and they'll have severe flaws.

[01:02:30] Sure, with the business and legal practice.

[01:02:34] One finance, you know I live in Manhattan it's the same greed.

[01:02:41] It's just numbers right it's, it's just. And then when you see politicians at some of those Wall Street places you're like yeah they're going to start inflating some numbers aren't they saying the level of greed the world is not enough for these types of egos.

[01:02:56] So to see him go down was a bit satisfied right.

[01:03:00] Oh yeah, you want to see any of these guys go down all the made offs other guys in the world.

[01:03:06] And many of them I don't know. I think, I don't know what drives them I guess ego or most of them have a fair number too big to fill.

[01:03:14] Maybe it's just never enough I think did you see the TV show or movie that call me it was about Heidi Fleiss.

[01:03:26] It wasn't that great it was Jamie Lynn, Sigler, Sigler. She was in the Sopranos.

[01:03:32] Oh yeah I heard about it but I didn't see it but yeah I knew she played Miss Fleiss.

[01:03:37] It was about it was basically biographical about how Heidi Fleiss became who she did.

[01:03:44] It's flattering Heidi Fleiss is sort of crashed and burned right.

[01:03:49] Not so much sex work and her problem was drugs right.

[01:03:53] It's kind of like the various shock jock DJs and everything you never know who's going to be kind of the main face with that time frame.

[01:04:05] Sure. There's another movie about sex work.

[01:04:09] No TV show movie TV show it was Jennifer Love Hewitt and it's called client list.

[01:04:14] It was like a lifetime type of movie and she was a good Texas woman who started giving happy endings at a massage parlor.

[01:04:20] Oh wow.

[01:04:22] Yeah Jennifer Love Hewitt is adorable as always but it almost like I don't think it was it like all her clients were like these gorgeous muscle bound guys like first of all that's not true and it was in it was a real place in Sugar Land, Texas.

[01:04:41] Oh wow.

[01:04:43] Yeah it like almost glorifies it like it's so good for her like nothing bad ever happens and I don't know it only went I think two seasons and.

[01:04:53] This is where it's so hard when you're doing a movie with a colorful profession and it's like I want to keep it in the gray area, you know, to show reality but someone gets attached one way or the other.

[01:05:07] There's a TV show power. Have you seen that yet?

[01:05:10] No it's good.

[01:05:12] It's the same kind of deal night club owner and technically not doing anything wrong with the night club but he's got crime connections.

[01:05:22] I think it if anything it does a good job of showing how there's really so many, both he and his wife are cheating on each other and then to make it even more awkward the various district attorneys are doing illegal things just to get a case so it's kind of just

[01:05:40] showing you how it's just after a while.

[01:05:44] It's back to the whole do as I say now is idea like everybody's breaking the rules.

[01:05:49] Jesus, I hope that's not too true to reality or though it probably is.

[01:05:54] Yeah, I doubt there's any current New York gang that's wanted by both the Mexican cartels and the Serbian mob but what do I know.

[01:06:03] Hopefully not right now yeah, I mean politics my sister works in politics and she says it's a sharp pit and there are so many people like sleeping around and having affairs and yes quite a quite a bit of drug use like it's it's a lot of shenanigans.

[01:06:19] As in every world.

[01:06:21] Every world man and it's funny how it intervenes with said other world, and then like five other parts of the world that you never thought would connect to the other.

[01:06:31] You know you've been crew like long hours on film sets.

[01:06:36] A lot of people end up hooking up because you're especially if you're on location somewhere far away for like six months like.

[01:06:42] It's like, you know you're stuck together and your it's it happens a lot of stuff happens because you're just.

[01:06:49] It's just access you're just there with each other right there you go here you become closer to that person.

[01:06:57] Yeah and then you part ways when the job is done and it was like this weird little I had a very hot photographer like 10 years ago in New York.

[01:07:05] Lucky for me he was gay so nothing could happen even if I had wanted to.

[01:07:10] I mean, I would have makes it easier. Yeah, Ian Cutler he ended up getting an Emmy for stills. He worked. He did still photography for some TV show I can't remember what but he was so talented and he passed away he went.

[01:07:21] He raced his car got very successful made a bunch of money bought like a Lambo or Ferrari and he raced his car with somebody down the West Side Highway and he crashed and died young.

[01:07:31] Yeah, like five years ago in Cutler he was hot.

[01:07:36] So hot. I'm this photo shoot was you know a little bit sexy ish lingerie and big stuff like that at the Soho House, and it had been on the table.

[01:07:45] I got my wires crossed because we you know the shoot was kind of a sexy thing even he was good looking and I mean, he was not interested but I would have been so and I knew like it's just my wires getting crossed because we're having like a sexy day.

[01:08:01] And I know this is a shoot it's not reality there's like crew here, there's makeup and hair people and but somehow I had and the photos came out great because the look on my face because I spent the day basically a little horny was weird.

[01:08:15] Very odd.

[01:08:17] And it was harmless nothing nothing happened, but I remember that like, I don't know the crew probably can you forget it you know it's just embedded didn't appreciate me like being sleazy but I didn't do anything.

[01:08:29] I don't hopefully they didn't know.

[01:08:31] Yeah, when people are just giving a luxe. I don't know why people get so bothered by luxe though it's like it do can eyes kill people now just with a stare.

[01:08:43] And sure, they worked with this guy all the time I'm sure he got hit on everywhere he went.

[01:08:46] It's not a stink I who cares.

[01:08:49] I didn't a lot of photographers like I had to pay a makeup artist. I gave her $200 to like, not leave me for a few hours after shoot for a couple hours after shoot as we packed up because the photographer was trying to get me alone after shooting diet is very wise just to root out the creeps

[01:09:09] He still hates me he's walking me across all socials. His photos were fine they weren't that good, but he kept he spent the whole shoot telling me all these how all these women want to fuck him and blah blah blah I was like oh

[01:09:20] If there's a if there's any douchebag and he's on Facebook please let me know I'm happy to report him and block him off the air not I won't say it out here but no that's good idea because I am in some of those modeling groups and everyone's

[01:09:33] been doing it for once a while I that's a good point that's actually a wonderful segue I was there was this one I think it was like DFW but it was also like an international one and one of the admins was doing a really good job he

[01:09:45] two other gals and one other guy and they were just all like bringing up some people is like you got you got complaints about him list them here so they are not in this group and we report them.

[01:09:57] It was a very fat friendly group but there was at least like one or two where someone was like really him I haven't heard anything bad and like, oh, hey, maybe he wasn't sleazy or shitty on your shoot but if 500 people complain you know you got to take that into consideration.

[01:10:13] Well word gets around and you know you're a professional but like the GWC.

[01:10:18] Sorry, but yeah, this is interesting camera. That's happened when I did modeling as a teenager. It was a real profession and then that you got these GWC like guy with a camera who's like oh I can use this to like meet hot people.

[01:10:32] And yeah word gets around pretty quick and the good ones.

[01:10:37] Like Ryan Dwyer in California shot me a million times. His wife is hotter than any model he totally loves her. He's like this mellow stoner surf bomb.

[01:10:47] He makes great and he never ever gets creepy. He's around hot chicks all day every day didn't care. And that's why he does so well in the business because he's completely trustworthy and he's so nice, and he's not a sleaze bag.

[01:11:01] That's wonderful to hear that gives me some hope for the human race.

[01:11:05] I mean, those ones are really good and they know like not to do that crap. Don't be a he-bitch.

[01:11:12] I mean, I just hope we really just get to this point like if I do a movie set production in the future, I'm going to have like some behind the scenes guides.

[01:11:23] So that way, you know we can not only have some behind the scenes stuff ready to go but we can also have someone reporting anyone who's not doing the right thing and you have that to back you up in court.

[01:11:34] I know that they're on film. This cameraman touched the lead stars ass that that's an instant fire and if their lawyer, their lawyer has no case.

[01:11:44] Yeah, people behave better when they know that they're like, I like to fly planes and there's a black box. Oh really? Yeah, and it records overlays the last like half hour.

[01:11:55] And when you know that you're being recorded, you you're less likely to say stupid stuff right it's good.

[01:12:01] I mean, keep it to the small talk and like yeah people on set know that I mean they should know everybody has a camera phone nowadays they should be behaving anyway but I mean that's I think that's been a plus with all the protests.

[01:12:15] Yeah, turn into riots and other BLM stuff you're just saying okay no this guy legit did not read your rights and acted like a thug when their public figure.

[01:12:26] Well how many people were probably killed by bad people and there was no video evidence back there was no trial and you're like, so we got away with murder so here she's going to do it again.

[01:12:36] Sure, I'm sure it happened all the time. And I know that was that nurse who got shot it wasn't Trayvon Martin and it was a female.

[01:12:44] Oh Brianna Brianna Taylor yeah and it's just heartbreaking I'm like she arrived to a scene. And then this other gal came up and shot her in the face and it's like well, how could you even mistake her.

[01:12:56] Yeah. And they're trying stuff like turning off their body cameras and they of course the the the disgusting thing in this country is qualified immunity that when they do things that are wrong you cannot sue them.

[01:13:07] You cannot sue a prosecutor, a DA.

[01:13:11] You can, there's rare rare occasions where you can like it file Brady motions which goes in their file and nobody even gives a shit, but qualified immunity is disgusting that they are above the law literally.

[01:13:24] Especially with the lobbyists like yeah it's gonna be thrown out another workers death on an oil rig that don't matter.

[01:13:30] What lawyer is going to go after them because they sort of need each other they're all in the same business they're all in court and together.

[01:13:39] And also what judge is going to side against them because you can't win an election and become a judge without the police union donations to your campaign. Yeah.

[01:13:47] So judges never side against them.

[01:13:50] I know live in LA and they one year I looked up the statistics of people who had sued LAPD.

[01:13:57] And it was like I don't know 469 case five lawsuits that year. Do you know how many were who were one, how many of those cases were won by the citizen probably five out of 500 zero zero.

[01:14:12] And it's that every year no one wins almost ever it's like one in like seven years. The citizen that's garbage.

[01:14:20] You cannot win.

[01:14:22] The young Turks did a cool survey. I don't want to use cool but just they did a classification of like when there was a lot of propaganda saying oh we're in danger we have a dangerous job and it's like, there was like, like 10 cop deaths and like three sevens of them were by other

[01:14:42] dirty cops killing other cops who were snitching on them like yeah see yeah.

[01:14:47] And then like a seven 11 guy late at night is far more dangerous being a crab version man is far more dangerous right.

[01:14:54] That dangerous of a job.

[01:14:56] Even if you're going by some of the homeless who aren't in their right mind like you just walk across the street to the next area, you should be fine.

[01:15:05] Someone who's charging you and you got to use self defense.

[01:15:09] I mean, they're very fast decisions with very little information so they get so they make bad decisions because yeah.

[01:15:16] I don't yeah the whole thing is, I mean in other countries don't have this problem so we know it can be done better, because there are places that do right.

[01:15:24] It's not impossible.

[01:15:25] But I mean, don't get me started on the, the sex worker stings it's so creepy and voyeuristic. I heard a rumor actually here.

[01:15:34] Somebody sex life and then deciding who can when to consenting adults, the government gets to decide whether or not those two people can agree to fuck each other.

[01:15:43] Like get the fuck out of my bedroom like last I checked I own my body the state doesn't.

[01:15:48] Yeah, when I want for what reason I want as long as I'm not forcing the other party to fuck me because that would be rape right.

[01:15:56] Go away. It's so voyeuristic it's creepy.

[01:16:00] It is almost as bad as preventing certain drug use let alone who can be married and gay, and of course don't get me started on abortion but it's, I did hear a rumor here in Dallas that that there's often are a lot of street walkers seen in that area off a regal row by some other production studios and

[01:16:21] I did hear a rumor for a while that there were cops that were letting to go on and so then that gets you thinking okay is one of them the clients, you know, many times they know in Oakland.

[01:16:31] There was that famous case where they were all gang banging this one particularly adorable little one in return for protecting or Orleans. Wow.

[01:16:41] Oakland California Oakland California.

[01:16:44] They all got fired thank God.

[01:16:46] But she and she stood up.

[01:16:48] It's very predatory right because it's like, okay so what if she refuses you got a ruster.

[01:16:54] Well that's how you usually you end up dead right.

[01:16:57] That's garbage.

[01:16:58] That said,

[01:17:01] The Phoenix PD saved my life.

[01:17:04] They did not like me, they said the stalker was a Pimp who wanted to make money off me and I said no, I don't want that and you're not going to do that to me.

[01:17:11] But that's what happens in my business when you're pretty and marketable. Sometimes people want to make money off you and me and my big old mouth when when this pimp wanted that I told him to fuck off, which I probably should have just ignored it but I didn't know who I

[01:17:25] was messing with right stupid.

[01:17:27] So he wanted to harm me.

[01:17:30] That happens a lot.

[01:17:32] And the Phoenix PD, they put him in prison.

[01:17:35] So I'm good on him.

[01:17:37] Well, I don't know what to make of that I don't think they cared that much about me I think they wanted him because he was also like doing other bad stuff.

[01:17:44] Also he was already like a pseudo criminal who'd already.

[01:17:47] Yeah guns and raping people and running girls and he was a bad he was a bad dude.

[01:17:51] So he'd already had multiple offenses so he was already a state priority but I know what you mean where it's like they're not actually saving you and I do feel like a lot of people do that propaganda is like they don't have any they don't care about.

[01:18:02] They want to just avoid having to do paperwork on a body count.

[01:18:06] Yeah, I think he.

[01:18:08] When we met when me and my lawyers met with them.

[01:18:12] I was convinced they were gonna maybe harm me in some way, but they didn't.

[01:18:17] Oh, like, use you as like a fall guy or something.

[01:18:20] Yeah, something, you know, she or she enabled this asshole is like, no.

[01:18:25] It was like my boyfriend or something I was like dude I have never met this person I swear I do not know him. But I guess usually it's some kind of passing by someone at a nightclub does that make them your boyfriend.

[01:18:36] I was on the internet I never met him. I didn't even know his name was David Elms and I didn't know he was Vietnamese till I saw the mugshot.

[01:18:43] But it was like this.

[01:18:45] But I'm hoping only fans actually opens this up and realizes how sex work crosses over so many different patterns so many different areas, much like entertainment.

[01:18:56] Well, people are always going to want access to good looking young sexy people. I don't think that's going to listen they can do it from their private studio slash home. There you go.

[01:19:07] I have to work for the man anymore.

[01:19:09] I think it's been covered kind of democratized it in a big way I know.

[01:19:15] So much off only fans. They're no longer going back to in person work and so they are safer.

[01:19:21] And so I think it's a great thing that we had Leslie Zen it was actually one of our first guests here on the show and she talked about how like that's just all she does because she never signed with any label.

[01:19:30] Nice.

[01:19:31] She's completely independent.

[01:19:36] Yeah, absolutely. Like, and, and she was also, you know, people would often, of course, mockingly back in the 2000s when everyone was derogatory they she often got the tough bitch label and it's like well yeah, she wants to be in be out.

[01:19:50] And again, not have to work for some the contract for some company that won't let you work for some other, you know, internet company.

[01:19:58] I don't want to be owned.

[01:19:59] Right.

[01:20:00] So can I ask you I wanted to ask you since I got the chance to meet you and I've listened to so many of your episodes when you are part of a movie that's like really scary.

[01:20:09] Do you guys have to like take breaks and have laughs over craft services and like, or are you actually scared or is it totally not scary because you're on said and it's not.

[01:20:18] Yeah, that's just it because there's no music and you're messing with the lighting you're kind of.

[01:20:24] You're basically playing a God.

[01:20:26] My issue has just always been me in my pal Nathaniel who I still help out on some festival shorts or PSAs when I can.

[01:20:36] Okay.

[01:20:38] We were dealing with this one prick who just we the pain in our asses is just getting all the paperwork there's always someone who's got 20 different reasons and it's like, Sign or don't stop at the speed of the good guy.

[01:20:52] No one is forcing you to work on this movie, but if you can't sign this, you're the same troublemaker is going to do the whole take my name off it or you can't release this because I'm involved with it was like, it's just paper work just indicates hey, everyone

[01:21:06] all parties agreed.

[01:21:08] And regardless of what you want to be associated with this or not you worked on it and you're not going to prevent this, you know, picture from getting completed and all the other people's work but we had this one guy he was like a recommended boom mic operator and sound recorder and he was just

[01:21:24] like, I'm not using to sign any of this and we were just trying to get ahead of the curb and like yes you signed up and then he finally was like final sign it.

[01:21:34] But we were just up to here with his like okay well if he's exploring on us over email.

[01:21:41] He is probably not going to be good so ironically the day we were finally fed up with him he had just finally given us his paperwork and then we saw him talking some smack about us and he deleted it after five minutes but

[01:21:52] he didn't even take a second shot of it because you're like, okay, so what did we do wrong. We asked you to sign your paperwork. Yeah, so petty.

[01:22:01] And then I asked the other colleagues and they're like, oh, never had an issue with him. He was quiet. Like, well, he could have fooled me because very colorful here.

[01:22:12] What his problem was what a weirdo.

[01:22:14] I'm not fucking interested right now. I don't like how you're I don't like your face I don't want to I don't want to be involved okay cool. We won't work together.

[01:22:23] Bye Felicia.

[01:22:26] I mean it takes all kinds you know nobody can like everybody.

[01:22:30] Thank you. Yeah, that and people change there might be someone is like yeah they were very talkative and trying to force a friendship on someone I never understand that is like, let's see if we work well together before we decided to come Facebook friends

[01:22:45] you know. Yeah, like chip calm down like, and the fake charisma there's so much of that and Dallas.

[01:22:52] And they never stop acting when the cameras are off.

[01:22:55] It's gonna be exhausting to like not be a real person. Right.

[01:22:59] I couldn't live a life.

[01:23:02] LA is full of those people Dallas to there's that I'm sure there's plenty of other places in Atlanta or.

[01:23:09] I like the New York's great they're not nice and they don't pretend to be.

[01:23:13] Like, every stop just four letter words like, and then they and then it goes by but yeah it's interesting so yeah it's not really you're right music is

[01:23:24] so much of a film, especially horror.

[01:23:27] Like, it's not nearly as scary without the soundtrack and the fully all the other stuff there's that your plan but if there's anything people should just definitely be on a film set and just realize hey, there's a reason why some of these guys lose their brain if they got nothing going on and they're on settle day.

[01:23:50] You're going to detect it, you know, you're going to see it and it just was interesting to me how you have to create all that lighting, you know.

[01:24:01] That that that is not there, like, there's a wonderful French movie I think stars Jacqueline Bissette from the 70s called day for night.

[01:24:11] He's talking about that whole thing you're filming nighttime at during the day vice versa.

[01:24:17] They had to do that.

[01:24:21] Singing in the rain with Jean Kelly, that's like milky water because regular water didn't show up as rain.

[01:24:28] Right, you have to use all kinds of alternates.

[01:24:33] Funny that breaking character to like this one of the scariest thing is I went on a haunted hay ride in Griffith Park Zoo they do that every year for Halloween in Los Angeles and there's lots of good actors and LA of course,

[01:24:45] I went to the big city.

[01:24:47] A sweet.

[01:24:49] We're in the back of this hay ride. And my friend was quite well dressed he wore like a three piece suit from Zara he looked really cute. And this zombie guy, he's acting and he's got the fake chainsaw.

[01:24:58] And he's running after us with the fake chainsaw like raw screaming and he completely breaks character for two seconds looks at my friend Jeff and goes nice outfit man.

[01:25:06] And then goes back to me.

[01:25:07] I love those kinds of stories and you will make friends on some of the most amateur poorly thought out productions or ones which you want nothing to do with things like but that's how we're friends.

[01:25:18] I'm glad we had this awful experience because now we're still talking.

[01:25:21] When authenticity rings like nothing else.

[01:25:24] Even in sex work, most people aren't assholes and creeps. They're just seeking connection.

[01:25:29] But I saw it on TV.

[01:25:31] Amy, I'm just kidding.

[01:25:34] Like, most people want like authentic connection. It's hard to find where often we can't find it.

[01:25:41] We can't achieve it.

[01:25:42] I'm pretty awkward like sciencey and dorky.

[01:25:45] Welcome to the club.

[01:25:46] Connect with people.

[01:25:48] That's all anybody really wants right.

[01:25:50] I don't want to be anywhere else.

[01:25:54] We're just trying to, you're not going to see it anywhere else either that's the entire.

[01:25:58] Yeah, different forms of awkwardness.

[01:26:02] Yeah.

[01:26:05] I always liked writers. I got the, had the honor of knowing a couple of very well known Hollywood writers wrote household name stuff. And they were exactly as brilliant as you would expect.

[01:26:16] Sweet.

[01:26:17] The way their minds worked. They would like lock themselves in a hotel room for six weeks if they're, if the writing I've heard of those is just to make the ideas finally arrive.

[01:26:28] Yeah, and then sometimes they just don't for like a month or two there's just nothing.

[01:26:33] Yeah.

[01:26:34] You know paramount is trying to get you to write something.

[01:26:37] And you already don't want to write it.

[01:26:40] Imagine like writing a script and trying to make it come to life. That seems totally.

[01:26:46] It's, it's a lot.

[01:26:50] And that all the things that need to come from like, you know, in your business, like from the getting the rights to getting it green lit to getting it's a wonder.

[01:26:58] Yeah, that's what it's made.

[01:27:01] So many good podcasts out now that, especially if you're in a true crime that are good at showing real life terrors and dramatizing it very well. And with credibility that actually reached out to the families of the deceased and the prosecutors.

[01:27:19] Even some of the crooks got their take.

[01:27:22] And, and same deal too there's some great podcasts about the making of certain blockbusters and you're like it's an amazing that any of this even took off.

[01:27:34] Yeah how much went wrong and how much had to happen. The one that kills me is the unsolved mysteries. It's very frustrating to me.

[01:27:41] You're right.

[01:27:43] It's like a bad criminal minds episode you're like, and that's it. What.

[01:27:49] Like, when they're just, oh, was, was that no do pot. Did you see that one about recently?

[01:27:55] Mel do bot.

[01:27:57] No do pot.

[01:27:59] No, it was the rich guy's family he was psycho and at the very end they had the camp the recording and he was talking to himself.

[01:28:08] Oh, I was like Robert Hurst.

[01:28:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:28:13] Not do pot.

[01:28:15] Yeah, yeah. I did hear about that and I don't even know why they wanted to record them but I'm glad he's way in jail and they reopened that case.

[01:28:25] Jinx.

[01:28:26] The jinx that's what it was.

[01:28:28] It was a while ago like eight seven eight years ago. Dude, it's not jump out and like scare you kind of horror, but it's so like so creepy at the end.

[01:28:40] And I don't know if you can tell me that.

[01:28:42] Well, that night, because it's, it's the very end you, you finally realize how crazy he really is. The fact that this man exists. Yeah.

[01:28:50] Yeah. And it's real. Right. Yeah, pretty hard to lie about that. Ray Donovan also kind of talks about various shady talent agencies.

[01:29:02] And how they often have the whole don't, don't invite any girls to your hotel they might wake up you might wake up with them dead. And we're gonna have to explain this.

[01:29:12] Yeah, that's not that hooker.

[01:29:17] I'm just like you're looking at it and you're always wondering which real life cases that inspired by and I'm thinking that method actor refusing to come out while hi on marijuana I think that's was the snipes.

[01:29:28] That one definitely Britney Spears type case where they're being extorted by their business manager who's also blood relative, and then there's a few other ones really like that could be anyone.

[01:29:39] I mean, it scares me a lot the horror film that real true crime. They often wanted to kill pretty women in their 20s. I'm not in my 20s anymore. But when I was realizing that there's this subset of men who want to torture and kill.

[01:29:55] And I don't know if I'm blonde. Thank God, but my nieces and I see her she's 18 and blonde and tall and then lives in San Francisco and the way I see some men look at her scares me.

[01:30:06] And I don't know. I guess they want to conquer this type of girl that cheerleader is they want to pray on the week.

[01:30:14] She's not strong. She's young and stupid and yeah, it's an easy target like he always picked the ones with the ponytails you could hold you could pull.

[01:30:25] Oh, absolutely. I love all the different health and mental health podcasts because they pretty much all hit the nail on the head saying the pretty much the cause of a lot of these are our various insecurities.

[01:30:42] You know, you already take the fear mongering.

[01:30:45] Clickbait but then when you have just people constantly just telling you, oh, this is bad and this is that it's like, and I fortunately, I'm glad I never bought into that fear mongering is like all these, you know, that because insecurities like the cause of

[01:31:05] everything from jealousy to just bullying.

[01:31:10] Yeah, and I had a deceased on who's fortunately in line with us but her husband, my uncle is also unfortunately just as bad as her where they had a bad habit of where they were just like,

[01:31:26] refusing to like a knowledge, like a waiter or a pizza delivery person's existence. Oh, he wronged me. I'm like, they were late. They didn't have the or someone gave them a bad order so you know, they didn't do this despite you.

[01:31:44] Oh, but he is bad. He is terrible. I'm like, what then ordered from a better restaurant. You know, it's like, what's the problem?

[01:31:54] And it's just amazing to me when I see people just they don't even know the other person they're just spiting them and if.

[01:32:02] Yeah, this is where I think you the tip does the talking and just remind someone okay I'll do better next time but it's it almost is like a teacher versus student argument too is like well did you use your words no okay well then you got what you got.

[01:32:17] I mean, and yeah it's not really about you often like the person stressed out tired they don't make a lot of like give them a break.

[01:32:24] Right. And also have you ever like I don't know your aunt or uncle but have you guys ever fucked up are you perfect all the time. Yeah, I don't see you got looking at their way they don't cook any of their own food.

[01:32:37] They never make mistakes that most people make mistakes you give them some slack and like you said, if it's terrible more than once or twice okay move on next.

[01:32:45] Yeah, leave a review they'll take note.

[01:32:47] I kind of love to feel like slighted, like they like to feel like that because they like to add all this extra melodrama that doesn't exist.

[01:32:56] You should like, I don't think anyone went out their way to do this this is just a bad so proud that you're painting everybody's brain right now.

[01:33:05] It's not that important no one actually cares.

[01:33:09] Yeah, I don't know like they said in the turn of the century America, most of the serial killers were women and they were poisoning their husbands, but they started getting caught like the arsenic thing in the tea.

[01:33:23] There was a lot of like because you know murder is basically a man thing it's like whatever 10,000 to one like by that women.

[01:33:32] And then maybe that's physical strength or testosterone whatever whatever but for the most part women don't do the murdering nearly as much, but apparently like a long time ago there were a lot of women poisoning their husbands.

[01:33:45] Forensics got too good so they had to I guess.

[01:33:50] Wow.

[01:33:51] Yeah, I know I don't even know how true that is but they said that the serial killer trope was with ladies back in the day.

[01:33:57] There's nurses who do right that happens weird.

[01:34:01] The movie that Eddie Redmayne movie was really good. The nurses.

[01:34:06] I didn't see that one. He thought he was like mercy killing, he went up their insulin and put him into a coma.

[01:34:13] He was some kind of angel of death I guess it's based on a true story but it happens. Wow.

[01:34:20] Well, takes all kinds right before you learn.

[01:34:25] So, likewise, it's cool to know that you're seeing some cool documentaries that give you chills but at least you learn more about them.

[01:34:34] Well and if you ever get a chance to be part of a movie about sex work tell her tell him to just make her human please.

[01:34:42] I think I wanted to for a while actually do a documentary on slut shaming. Because I noticed it just would be cool to just know the origin of why is that like one of the first insults people do, especially if the person's like not taking your money or anything you

[01:34:56] know they just like to fuck. What, why are you mad.

[01:35:02] I don't even do it just like if there even isn't even any sex involved or just like, I like the way he did his job. That's what I'm just there.

[01:35:13] I don't know if they're jealous like I don't know.

[01:35:16] Probably is just the audacity of some people don't like audacity so the thing they hate about somebody who's sexually comfortable is like how dare they dare you exist to be different.

[01:35:29] Like you should have more dare you be opinionated and happy in your body and gay or whatever.

[01:35:37] Don't really like people who like themselves right that makes us mad. Look at this new little roommate remake they did. It was like, okay, so I'm not on the Disney remake bandwagon.

[01:35:48] I'm not a kid but anyone wants parent and wants to take their kid to that go have fun but then you saw so many people saying oh my God, they changed the race like, and what's the problem here.

[01:35:58] Representation matters it's really important for little black girls to see representation matters. Absolutely and I'm just like, okay so I'm not going to support Disney's old you know which is trying to keep, you know the license and make a buck off someone but anyone who wants to see that because they

[01:36:18] identify with it or want to fancy film this show their minority daughter that's cool but it's just like, okay, but what. And then it just hurts me when I see some of these people just saying I'm equal rights but I got a problem with this like so I don't believe you please tell me a compelling argument.

[01:36:40] Oh, outrage the hardest the hardest thing in the world is to like live and let live right. It's hard for me I'll be in Starbucks and just judge a bitch for because I don't like her yoga pants, and she doesn't even know I'm standing behind her.

[01:36:51] That's how correct me.

[01:36:53] I'm just going to go ahead and an invisible fight with her. And she's not even, she has her earbuds in and doesn't know I exist because I you we like to control other people because we're infants we're just all infants.

[01:37:08] How dare we exist.

[01:37:11] Well, you know, mother nature I'll have had it with us at some point so until I think that's what code was responsible is like, yeah, you talks to people get a day.

[01:37:21] I'm going to wait.

[01:37:23] Right, finally we might deserve it maybe you know anyone not washing their hands. See you see next time.

[01:37:29] National selection at work right karma.

[01:37:33] Right.

[01:37:34] Oh, so this has been delightful having you on anything you want to promote any blog and you say my am. Yeah, if anybody. Yeah, modeling portfolio.

[01:37:44] I do my socials are Amy Taylor NYC. And yeah, I'll be on some stuff in the coming in the next couple months after the holidays. So yeah people can check that out.

[01:37:55] And in my nonsense ramblings or they can ignore them, whatever they like.

[01:38:00] And so, and I'll be looking for nonsense.

[01:38:04] We love doing social topics and documentary discussions.

[01:38:08] So keep it up your podcast are funny and interesting. I love them.

[01:38:14] Well, hope so. We definitely have some interesting people coming up we had one conversation that was interesting because it was about AI generated artwork. It was like well just do some backstory make sure you didn't still someone else's likeness.

[01:38:28] That stuff is fascinating what's coming.

[01:38:31] Yeah. And I mean, I think the strikes were enough of a message is like hey that it was okay until someone got hurt.

[01:38:40] Yeah. I mean, they have, I think actors and writer they have a right to be scared of this AI stuff that's coming.

[01:38:49] I know many people have been in it and they kind of slowly got fired, either due to office politics or just someone just saying I'd rather have a computer automate this all for me.

[01:39:02] Sir, friend of mine just lost their job as a quantitative trader for hedge fund.

[01:39:08] Does it better doesn't get emotional doesn't make stupid trades less arguments.

[01:39:14] I mean, we're all going to be playing chess with a computer.

[01:39:17] Well, I mean, what about authenticity though like, right? I mean, what about being human. There's those real dolls, but I don't like Siri because Siri is not a real person.

[01:39:29] Yeah, I'm like, can AI really write a script yet is it close.

[01:39:35] I think it's even close. It's not even sky net level.

[01:39:39] It's been a while right.

[01:39:42] Right.

[01:39:44] Well, how does it enjoy Dallas likewise.

[01:39:50] Enjoy New York.

[01:39:52] Yeah, it's fine. It's you know, healthy and nonsense but it'll do.

[01:39:57] Good.

[01:39:59] Don't get ripped off. Don't let people drag you down for the mud.

[01:40:04] I think it's a good idea to get in an empty subway car. That's what I've always, always have a witness.

[01:40:10] Yep. Take out your phone when someone's wronging you and let the internet decide who's right.

[01:40:15] It's it. Yeah, it looks as they say, like they've been right.

[01:40:19] Anyone trolling you on social media just lose their contact.

[01:40:23] I'm just saying it nicely. If they're just being snobby and be open minded, don't look for a, just one answer.

[01:40:32] Maybe there's an in between answer regarding your situation.

[01:40:36] Yeah, that's a great way to think of it.

[01:40:38] I'm just saying it's a great way to help now and I love just therapy in general because I think so many people who have a bad experience with therapy. Well, that's just it. They just saw one, you know, advisor and they didn't weren't good at opening up.

[01:40:52] Yeah, like any business summer better than others right.

[01:40:55] And I get that's a lot of time and money, but that's just it to you. You decide how much you want to invest in this.

[01:41:03] I'm so here for like, these younger masculine men who are like, I'm tired of the guys doing the whole.

[01:41:11] Okay.

[01:41:15] You guys are in therapy and like that's so healthy. I love it.

[01:41:18] Cry. Just cry one day.

[01:41:21] Person said so much about.

[01:41:23] Yeah.

[01:41:25] Good.

[01:41:28] So good.

[01:41:29] Well, it was fun to chat. It was fun to get to meet you.

[01:41:31] Likewise. Miss Taylor.

[01:41:33] Yeah, we'll keep in touch and for real.

[01:41:36] Any other topic that's on your lane that you just like, we I got to share my two cents on this.

[01:41:42] We'll test or each other.

[01:41:45] Stuller is safe on set.

[01:41:48] We'll return after these messages.

[01:42:34] I'm going to go through some of the best tips.

[01:42:37] Great breakfast, Rex and booty debates.

[01:42:40] Most of all, you get the most delightful 30 minutes of your week.

[01:42:43] So dig in.

[01:42:44] It's Brent this time.

[01:42:46] Listen at Brent this dot com Apple podcast or wherever fine podcasts are found.

[01:42:50] Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win a fight between Goku and Superman?

[01:42:55] Hi, I'm James Gavzien on the who would win show me and my co host, Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world

[01:43:02] every week and almost always am I the winner?

[01:43:05] Not true, Ray.

[01:43:06] In the past, we've discussed such matches as Captain America versus Darth Vader,

[01:43:11] solid snake versus the iron giant classic matchups like Robocop versus Terminator

[01:43:16] and even the Muppets versus Sesame Street.

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