Retro MTV Overview (with Everything is a Primary Source, Oreo Brewer & Mack Lambert)

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[00:00:51] MTV Music Television. Welcome back Oreo Brewer. Don't call him Kevin. Welcome. Everything is a Primary Source podcaster himself.

[00:01:52] Can we try this again? Sorry about that. Embarrassingly, I didn't even have my microphone plugged in. I've been setting this thing up and down, up and down, so I apologize. All good. So, for those that don't know, you are just as retro as these guys. You chronicle various dates, you know, on this day, you know, this radio single, you know, debuted, you know, all kinds, but mostly movies.

[00:02:20] And, but I just love the pop culture savvy. Yeah, I live retro. I live pretty much in multiple time periods. It seems everything but the present and... My career did a lot of radio. I listen to a lot of my college radio stations and I'm always just tickled by when they do a recap. It's like, on this day in history, this president got sworn in or this cultural phenomenon was born or this kind of toy debuted at supermarkets.

[00:02:47] You know, it's always just fun seeing those little tidbits. It's like, yeah, and it's still here today. Yeah. In 1963, I Wanna Hold Your Hand was played on a United States radio station in Washington, D.C. for the first time ever. Sweet. It was leaked. It was brought over here. It wasn't released as a single yet. Parlophone, somebody brought the Parlophone copy in. They played it on the air.

[00:03:13] The Parlophone got pissed off, but it laid the groundwork for the Beatles to come to America because everybody was like hearing the song and they were, DJs were asking for copies for it. So Capitol kind of jumped. I need this. British Invasion. Let's go. Yeah. No, no, Cam. It was more like, hey, hey, I need to get out of the little sack of that wax there, buddy. It's wax. You had to have more yuck, yuck, yucks in between the. Hey, here are four guys from Liverpool. Where the hell is that? Oh, it's somewhere over in England.

[00:03:41] Hey, next up, Tommy V and the Chanderollas with their new hit, Baby, I Love You Then, Frankie Gally and the Four Seasons, Why Am I So Short With You? Then, thank you, where's my career? Oh, my God. We're going to town with the DJ stuff. See what you've entered into here, Eric? And we haven't even broke out the case in case in yet. And we are on the verge. We're on the verge. Now a request and dedication. Oh, man.

[00:04:08] Turn of the century, MTV2 ran every video to date alphabetically and I just went nuts and recorded a bunch of them. So that's what's on the background here. Oh, shit. For those who can't see, yeah, Mike is wiser. He always has a video going on that gets us in the mood to where we're like, oh, man, I remember that video. These occasionally wash out. But, you know, it's just, you know, you see my TV. So well, and I got to thank guest Mac Lambert returning.

[00:04:38] You know, we had been back and forth organizing stuff. And it's so funny. He's like, you got to do an MTV chat that was on the docket. But to his credit, he was just so adamant. He's like, we got to do it. We got to do this soon. I'm like, all right, fuck, let's move it up. Retro MTV chat it is. I didn't know we were going to do anything at this time of the year, but fuck it. Let's do it.

[00:05:25] 24 hours a day on cable TV. I want my MTV, MTV, MTV. Yeah, too much is never enough. But no, this this is a delight, guys. It was really long time coming prepping this episode. And so we decided let's kind of just kind of a small just kind of overview of just where MTV began, where it is now and just memorable kind of highlights. What will we take from it?

[00:05:52] My prep for this was watching a show that many had talked about and being blown away at how good it was. And I'll get to it when I'm called upon. But we'll just circle around just casually. And, you know, thank you once again, Mac, for just reminding us like we got to do this. We got to do this. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, we do. It was on the docket somewhere somehow. And James Norgo Tuesday is like, we'll get there, but let's get there a little sooner. Yeah. And MTV. Yeah.

[00:06:22] You know, music. Why what? Why MTV? It made me want. Wow. It made me want my money for nothing and the chicks for free. Yeah. Great. See this. I agree with you, Gil. I think it is the best idea of both of all. Bill Clinton is in agreement. This video right now, I got to. I met him. Graham Parker. He's a small club in Grand Rapids.

[00:06:48] He signed his ticket at the end of the show and talked to him a little bit. For those of you who know. Graham Parker and the rumor. Yeah. Great. They're a great band. I hate a rumor. Sorry. I don't think that's one of their songs, but yeah. Yeah. Different song. Local Girls from his best album. So. Oh, rumor had it. Anyway, sorry. Who couldn't? I'd like to even just do a random survey just to today's audience and be like, can

[00:07:16] you remember when MTV actually played music? Yep. It'd be just like, now that the internet's taken over, who actually puts a new video on cable TV now? It's like. Word. Well, it's all YouTube now. That's where they are. Right. It's like Pilate Station would play some new stuff. Then they got bought and merged with MTV classic, like post 2013, 14. I was dismayed. I'm like, I prefer when they were just their own thing. I'm baffled how they have the MTV music awards and they never play a video.

[00:07:46] Yeah. It's just crazy. They got bad and even the Grammys, which I can't stand. And I'm like, what the hell? Or do they play it at like two in the morning or something? They play bids. I possibly. Yes. I'm baffled that I have to have the musicians because I don't know who the frig they are. Exactly. And you can't even hear what they're saying, man. Most of them sound the same. You sound like your parents growing up with your music. No, I remember that. Turn that shit off now.

[00:08:16] I remember the music videos, you know, when MTV was on, I can remember getting an argument with my stepsister because she was watching MTV and I wanted to show a watch a show on a different channel. And she goes, not until the show's over. I said, they play music videos. They don't play shows. It goes 24 seven. Yeah. Exactly. It'll be on in 40 minutes again. So yeah, so we got over that. Or if you're a true MTV fan, 120 minutes. Oh, great show. Great show. Yeah. Great show.

[00:08:46] One of the first ones you guys watched. Oh, no, no. I got, I got to see, uh, well, I got to see the videos, but I got to see like the young ones when they were first on, cause they were bringing, they brought them over to MTV. Um, and then I guess, you know, Monty Python again, cause they played them for a while. And the monkeys. People don't forget. Yeah. Much like Comedy Central and the other Vietcom channel is like a lot of those stations would replay just kind of all kinds of cult comedy. I go ahead.

[00:09:15] You can, you can, you can say that MTV kind of brought the monkeys, did bring the monkeys back into, you know, popular favor again, because they, they ran in 1986. I remember being in fifth grade. They ran the entire monkeys episodes for two days. Mm-hmm . And that kind of brought the monkeys back into popularity again. And they wound up touring. They wound up touring. Yeah. And they did. Yeah.

[00:09:43] Wasn't that around the time they were trying to change the format a little? Um, yeah. Yeah. A little bit, you know, they're trying to bring in like TV shows and stuff. Um, I kind of remember like, like when it first came on, I was six years old. Oh, hey. So it's 1981. You know, they had the space shuttle going off the moon, the guy on the moon. And then I remember watching the video music awards.

[00:10:12] I remember the first guy who got the video Vanguard award was David Bowie. Now that's awesome. That. Yeah. Um, with the date with David Bowie, with the sovereign. venture brothers reference. Thank you. Um, there was a great interview on basic, uh, when cable was cool podcast and they talked about the various, uh, programming executives at the Viacom family.

[00:10:39] And it was interesting hearing them, all the different comedians who were on doing the video blocks is like, uh, people like Dennis Leary and Jon Stewart said, you know, like, that's how they got their next dozen gigs was. Cause even though they basically did it for free is like, they would go to the night clubs and the comedy tropes. And like, everyone's like, you're the dude from MTV. So it is funny how that was free advertisement for everybody. It's come a long way and being less segregated and actually diverse.

[00:11:07] And you can thank Bowie also for that by saying, you're going to play Michael Jackson or I'm going to kill my contract with you. Yeah. Well, the thing is, she was that, um, you can, when you're talking about Dennis Leary, that anybody remembers remote control? Yeah. Oh, I remember it. Yeah. I love remote control. One of my favorite shows. Colin Quinn. Adam Sandler. Colin Quinn. Adam Sandler. Carrie Warren. Carrie Warren. I could have sworn they were still doing it in the 90s.

[00:11:35] Didn't when the Coppola, didn't a Coppola also appear on remote control? Yeah. I think so. Was it Sophia? I want to say the Sophia. It was their first non-music program, first game show, but ran until 1990. I could have sworn they didn't they reboot it somewhere along the way, like in the 2000s. Like, I think they did like they did a one off for that might have been it. I might have seen a something like that in 03 or 07. And the other kids. Yeah. You mentioned the monkeys. Do you know who helped launch MTV?

[00:12:04] Oh, that's very simple. Mike Netsmith had a show called pop clips. And what happened was, was that he, he shopped it around for a while and they said, well, we'll take a look at it. But then what happened was, was that there were a bunch of guys who looked at pop clips and said, you know, we could make this a 24 hour thing and we could get VJs instead of DJs. And Mike Netsmith was like, oh, okay, that sounds like a good idea. So Mike Netsmith is basically not only the father of, you know, some of the greatest

[00:12:31] country musical of all time, but also the guy who almost gave the idea of MTV away. Mm hmm. What was this show elephant parts about? What was that? That was a show on NBC that came on in 84, no 85. Yeah. It was, it was, it was basically a comedy sketch show with songs in between it that he did. And it came out after he'd done, he'd done, he'd done elephant parts.

[00:13:01] It was called television parts. Okay. Yeah. And it was, it was broadcasted during the summer. What happened was, was that elephant parts, one of the best things he did was, he said, you know, I want to say goodnight to everybody, you know, goodnight, Davey. Goodnight, Peter. Goodnight, Mickey, you know, kind of his way of saying, you know, don't worry. I'm still, I'm still in touch with him. But, um, he had like guys like Martin Mulan, um, Whoopi Goldberg. Um, who was, who was the comic? She was a comic. Mac and Eric. Do you remember any of this?

[00:13:31] Uh, I vaguely remember Rosie O'Donnell. Yeah. And then he, he, he was the first guy to have Jack Handy. Deep thoughts by Jack. Oh yeah. Okay. He had that on there. Jack Handy was a writer on the show and then he went to Saturday Night Live. Sweet. So, yeah, if you watch it, it's Desmond walking along the beach and there's like one, there's one Jack Handy spot and I busted out laughing one time, but yeah, he does one where he's,

[00:13:58] um, he's playing with a Mexican mariachi band and says, we need a Guantanamo. He says, we need a one ton tomato. One, he keeps saying one ton tomato. He just looks like he's like, one ton tomato? Like, yeah, but yeah, that was so wild how that comedy is just slowly kind of coming in. And basically, history repeats itself. If you're seen on MTV, if you're cool for them, then you're going to get a gig on another sketch show or comedy show or music hosting show. It's just.

[00:14:28] Another possibility. I remember the Beatles anthology. Uh, George Harrison points out that they would do music videos, the Beatles. Yeah. Like they said, Sullivan said a good appearing later in the later in the career. And George Harrison says, I mean, we basically invented MTV. So, you know, no, that's a good point too. There's actually old jazz music video music videos in the forties and maybe not the forties, but the fifties at least. Yeah. Those were, those were around too. Yeah.

[00:14:57] But you got to think too. MTV did something that they did. They did this thing called classic classics, which was basically taking old videos from the 60s show from Germany called beat club. If anybody's ever knows about that show. Um, it was a show made in what East West Germany and all these bands would show up like, you know, the animals, the who, um, cream. And, um, yeah, Hendrix would show up. Um, and they did, they did that.

[00:15:27] They would, they'd have a show called cause closet classics. They had a show called up from the basement, which was, you know, new bands coming, you know, new bands that were going to be voted on. The basement. Yeah. The basement. Yeah. Um, I do remember, uh, their alternative show was alternative nation. Yes. And that was, that was with Dave Kendall. Yeah. Dave Kendall. Then Kevin seal took over. I am Kevin CEO. How are you?

[00:15:57] Um, and then Kennedy took it over and, uh, you know, we all know happened with Kennedy. Um, and, uh, I don't know what happened. I can, I can make, I can make a JFK reference, but I think it would be bad. Yeah. We all are. Which kid are you talking about? I just rented a book from the library. Okay. That's funny. Anyway, Kennedy was like this, like scattered brain DJ. She was like really cute and stuff.

[00:16:22] And then later one night, one night, one night, no one night. Yeah. Yeah. Scattered brain Kennedy. Ha ha ha. Elbow and ribs. Um, so then one night, one night I'm like flipping through the channels and I see this woman on Fox news and I'm like, Oh, she's going off about Obama. I'm like, Holy fuck. That's Kennedy. Yeah. She became a Fox news anchor. And someone had to do it.

[00:16:52] I don't know. And for Greg Gutfeld of all people. Oh yeah. The biggest sexist dude on the planet. Oh my God. Now I disagree with that. Anybody named the first video they played on MTV. Uh, video. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember, can you remember the D the VJs, the original five VJs?

[00:17:19] Oh, uh, JJ Jackson, Alan Hunter, uh, Mark Goodman, uh, Martha Quinn. And what is her name? Was there five? They were five. Nina, Nina Blackwood. Yeah. She's still on. Yeah. So I'm over on XM radio. I talked to Mark Goodman on XM radio. They were calling about songs that about the end of time. And I mentioned if by Brett, and he just gave me a hard time for that. You know, I thought it was funny. So. Yeah.

[00:17:49] Alan. Alan. Alan Hunter. I remember being in the fashion video with David Bowie. Hmm. Yeah. Martha Quinn. I remember from, um, being in the Brady Bunch show. First concert back in 2006. So it was cool seeing them play the Asia video. We kill the radio star video on a big screen in the background while they perform. And then Martha Quinn also had a role in a full moon pictures.

[00:18:18] Um, well, but it's called bad channels. Yeah. She became. I remember being a radio DJ in Los Angeles. And then he, I think he was here in New York for a while. Yeah. And then unfortunately he passed away. So she was on MTV for a while. I think it was a performer. I think he had a one or two hit songs way back. Hmm. But so. He was the one that got out. He was the one who got away from the Joe a lot faster than the others. Yeah. But either way.

[00:18:48] Jackson family reference. Oh my God. We'll get there. But so. Oh my God. We're here JJ. God. Different JJ. So. We'll slap you upside the head. Give me a switchboard. That sounds more like James Brown, but that's all good. Dad, why do you look like. Dad, why do you look like Hightower or. Or pretty boom boom Washington from Welcome Back, Connor?

[00:19:18] Shut up. Wow. I'll do this for you. Hi there. Yeah, you're happy. And the deep cuts kept coming. But either way, like you guys could recognize these guys like on cue, like anywhere they are, like being interviewed on late night show or whatever. You're just like, that's the MTV, you know, VJ, you know. Is that how you kind of were with all of them or. Well, I knew I knew so I knew Adam Curry because he always had the

[00:19:48] goofy blonde hair because that's when they start to shift more to hair metal. Like it was when it first started out was all these bands like there were some bands that were established, you know, like you had like, you know, the who the stones were doing videos. You know, you know, all these bands and then like around 86, 87. There's this movement of what I like to call the hair metal wave. Yep. We're bad. Yeah.

[00:20:18] Yeah. You know, you had bands like, you know, like. The bands were basically co-host half the time. They're like, you're watching our new video. Well, it was it was like this. It was like it was like you had, you know, bands like Def Leppard and you know, you know, metal. No, no. I mean, they were they were the first, you know, the first wave of metal bands. But then, you know, also it got to be like, you know, like just glam. Yeah.

[00:20:43] You saw bands like like, you know, Warren Poison Cinderella, you know, Bon Jovi who would change their image. They discussed it a lot in the recent Hulu doc and it was a lot of fun going for those like, oh, man, it's so dorky. And half the time they would just be cracking up. They're like, what are we going to say again? It's going to be so stupid. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember like, you know, a lot of those bands, they were like, they would play like their songs and said like next up, we got the new the new the new song from Warren.

[00:21:13] And my friends would be like, yeah, we're going to be like, oh, shit, gotta leave the room. All right. It's like it's like case in case. And but now we the audience are subjected to it. We can't skip it. I mean, we we could, but we still we're going to have to flip back if we want to see a better video. And now the request dedication. We're going to listen to Enya backward for the next 45 years. Yeah. Wow. And the weird thing is, it was down exactly the same.

[00:21:42] And it was in the age of power ballads, too. Yeah, it was. And MTV also had a show called Headbangers Ball, which came out later, but it was still kind of in that cusp of the 86 or so. Seven seasons. It was kind of right towards the end of the end of the 80s. And I remember it was Ricky. It was Adam. Yeah, Adam. Adam Curry first hosted and then Ricky Rackman hosted later. I can remember like Headbangers Ball would come on.

[00:22:11] I knew it was time to go to bed when Headbangers Ball came on. And I remember seeing the headless cross by Black Sabbath, but it wasn't the Aussie Black Sabbath. It was like the, you know, like Tony, Tony Iommi and like three other guys, but they were Black Sabbath, you know, and it just, I was just like, okay, I'm done. I'm done. Late night. What did you think of this, Mac or Eric? Yeah.

[00:22:38] So I was, I was born in 1981, so I don't really have much experience with those early days of MTV at all. It was always, whatever. Later in the, later in the decade is when it was become, you know, kind of the, the sneaky thing that my older brother and I would do to, to switch to MTV. And, you know, we were, and if my parents caught us, it was, oh, we were just flipping the channels. We didn't actually see anything.

[00:23:06] And I, I, it was remote control that really caught my eye originally. Um, but you know, it's, it's interesting about MTV is that just like a lot of the other early cable channels, it kind of reminds me of those original, uh, companies that were on the stock market. Like AT&T was just the stock symbols T for telephone. Yeah.

[00:23:31] You know, there was introducing that whole concept that now general electric was just, and so like CNN was cable news network. Yes. You know, it's like, they just had these very simple explanations. So MTV was music television. And they always gave away this idea that came across as like a renegade. And I guess they were, but they've always been on a huge corporation, you know, that's like, just like really any, anything else.

[00:23:59] Television is not something that, you know, you can have like a mom and pop, you know, just get right into TV. Like you need to have a big production in that time. You needed to have satellites. You need to have, uh, you know, camera people and expensive equipment. So it wasn't something you couldn't DIY it, the videos you could, you know, there was plenty of those early videos. That was basically kind of like Fox was being the bad boy of network TV. They're having to do the whole, we're the baddest cable network.

[00:24:28] And the funny thing was, yeah. And the funny thing was when you bring that up, um, Eric, is that bands now could sell a million copies of their record, not just by doing radio, but now they could do video. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll take it a step further. They were able to do videos to promote the upcoming album. Yeah.

[00:24:49] And they would get so much hype behind it that you could, you could sell out, you get a platinum record just on the strength of one good video. Well, I, I, I think, uh, make it like that, make it like that. Do it again. I, I think MTV had a lot to do with launching some careers like, you know, Madonna, for example. I think she owes a lot to the videos she put on. They were banned. Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson too. Yeah. But when he started on his own. Yeah.

[00:25:18] It was always so funny though, when they would cater to political pressure and be like, we can't air this particular video is like, really? Even by your standards. Yeah. There were, there were videos that were banned. I remember. That's why I brought it up. When you went to Madonna. They banned Queen's body language. And they banned, I want to break free because of the fact that they were in drag, which was bullshit. Um, yeah. That's covered in the movie.

[00:25:45] The one thing I enjoyed about MTV was, you know, watching the videos with scantily clad women. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In that order. Who remembers that white snake video with Tawny Katane on the car? Huh? Which one? I don't know. But she's then. Yeah. Wasn't she also, uh, when they brought back the new WKRP, didn't she show up as a DJ on that? She's dead now. Yeah. Wait, Tawny? Oh, off the car. Yeah. Yeah, she did. Yeah, she's dead. Oh.

[00:26:16] Wow. Oh, she's in a bachelor party with Tom Hanks too. Yep. Yes. Plays his fiancee. Cute. And you can thank MTV for also bringing rap along. Because, you know, rap came along and that run, I can remember run DMC. Yeah. And run DMC with Aerosmith. They brought those two back, you know, they brought Aerosmith basically back from the dead. Um, yeah, that one song, uh, walk this way. Walk this way. Yep.

[00:26:46] Yeah. Um, so many got actresses got their start basically being playing a groupie or a love interest in a Aerosmith. I mean, you got Alicia Silverstone, you got everybody's like, my God, there's the Alicia Silverstone, like, uh, trilogy or, or, you know, the crazy. And amazing and crying all have her in it. Yeah. And, uh, those, you know, that, that get a grip.

[00:27:15] Cause so that was the era that I really started watching MTV, you know, early nineties, mid nineties is when I was perfectly allowed to watch it. Cause I was 13, 14 years old and I was watching my, as that was my go to my dad and uncle often had the TV on and they were watching Beavis and butthead make fun of music videos. Oh God.

[00:27:36] Uh, and that was, uh, that was kind of the apex of, of MTV really was that, that, because they, they were the centerpiece of popular culture by that. And all throughout that until. Oh seven. Like endless watching, you know, Beach one. The celebrity death match was there, but I mainly saw a lot of behind the music. That was always just a captivating. Well, I remember. Right. I remember. Yeah.

[00:28:03] My, my, my, my mother really loved Al TV, which was on both. I remember that. That's another person who got their start, who got big because of it. He owes so much of it to him, but like that, I feel like that show definitely influenced a lot of early YouTube, where it's like, I'm going to make it look like I'm talking to someone, even though, and we're going to match it up and make it look like it's the same. You know, video feed setting, you know, and just make it inconspicuous.

[00:28:32] Like I'm actually asking them a stupid question and they're saying something even stupider on intentionally funny. You know, he was kind of hinting at that with UHF when he, yeah, it all comes around. That kind of like renegade style, uh, television. And, you know, there's no mistake that the UHF symbol looked a lot like the MTV logo, you know, it was taking that same mentality. Um, you mentioned 2007.

[00:28:59] I think that that was a major turning point for MTV's domination because they had been the hub of everything. They, they were the ones that deemed things popular and not just music throughout the nineties, early two thousands. This is before even other big wigs. Like remember when HBO was like, we'll never sell our stuff to Netflix and look what they're doing now.

[00:29:21] And then it was like, it was what happened was it was the, I forget the, the, but MTV approached Mark Zuckerberg with a huge offer to buy Facebook. And he turned them down. Yeah. And I mark that as the beginning of the end. That's when social media took over as the hub of pop culture and MTV lost its position.

[00:29:47] Well, to me, to me, it was 97, 98 when the music scenes started to change. Yes. Um, and you gotta think that, that, that year, those, when the night we were coming out of the eighties and the nineties came along and also there was this movement of these bands

[00:30:10] that were, you know, they didn't play, they were popular, but they were like in college, you know, and you know, the alternative music scene came along. Yeah. So then all of a sudden that got popular. And then, you know, you had bands before that, like R.E.M., the replacements, Husker Do, Black Flag. Definitely a lot of those. Yeah. A lot of those left of the dial bands that were really great. You know, the pretenders, you know, um, love and rock.

[00:30:39] Cause I can go on and on. But then all of a sudden 120 minutes came along and that kind of brought everybody. You know, this new wave of bands that was coming out. And then in 97, all I remember is the music was getting darker. Like, you know, like Marilyn Manson, Cole Chamber, you know, mushroom, all these bands are coming. And I never heard of them. And then, then they started taking shows off like Beavis and Butthead went away. Aeon Flux. Aeon Flux went away. That was a great show.

[00:31:09] Liquid television. Yeah, Liquid Television. Yeah, Liquid Television. So here's a total deep cut for you all. Okay. Do you remember one of their first scripted shows that was Dead at 21? Yes. Yep. No. So I saw her the first time this year. The girl who's been... Great show. But go ahead, go ahead. The girl who was in Doogie Howser, MD, the one who played his girlfriend was in that show. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:39] Lisa Dean Ryan. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She was cool. Mandy Koto, rest in peace, was even one of the supervising writers on it. He later worked on Outer Limits and Dexter in 24. But I... It's just... It seems so silly when I say to it now, but it was just... It was almost like Groundhog's Day, you know, with some sci-fi stuff. And again, there's like... Now it's like secondary.

[00:32:06] Like every show has like a soundtrack playing in the background and making it look like a movie. It was like, yeah, no. He's gonna... He's gonna find out how to prevent himself from dying on his 21st birthday. Yeah. And he's gonna find out he's a science experiment. And every kind of music soundtrack from the 60s to today was playing on the show. And you can't... That's why it's never been released. There's just so much music. There's like... Oh, for the rights, yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:35] There's like 12 songs that often get played per episode. It's like, you can't take it away. You can't overdub it. It's too... It's... The whole point of the show is to... Basically, it was an interactive kind of music video. I'll go... I'll go a little deeper. I'll go a little deeper. Does anybody remember a show called You Wrote It, You Watch It? You Wrote It? You Wrote It, You Watch It. Hosted by Jon Stewart. Oh, okay. Okay? And the group who was doing the sketches was the state.

[00:33:04] So, Jon Stewart wound up getting the Jon Stewart show on MTV. Yes. That was his first show. The state wound up getting their show for two seasons. Okay? Right. So, all that happened. Then what happened... Okay, so that's where they were based off of. Okay. Wow. And then there was another show that was on... Remember? I used to watch this called House of Style. House of Style. Yeah, I do remember that one. House of Style. Yep. Cindy Crawford. Cindy Crawford. Oh. MTV Sports with Dan Cortez.

[00:33:36] I remember... You had a thing with Cindy. Okay, cool. No, I was trying to get hip because here I was in my little town, like, you know, going nowhere and I was like... Who are these people? No, no, no. It was just like... I wanted to see what's going on in the world, you know? I know. I... Hey, no, I'm not shaming here or anything. It's funny how it's like, in a way, like, this was... Why am I in this town? Why am I in this town? Why am I in this town? Okay, Phil. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, buddy.

[00:34:06] Oh, you know what else? We got the... We got the MTV thing that did the... Did the comedians, like, had Norma McDonald on. It was kind of good, yeah. I'd come up to you. And... The Half Hour Comedy Hour. Yep, that's right. I'm gonna tell you, your video sucks. Yeah. Yep. And you got to see some up-and-covers right there. You had to see Colin Quinn outside of the... Colin Quinn. ...and Sandler was down there a few times.

[00:34:33] I know Norma McDonald was, and just so many people who... Let's not forget the deep connection between all the Viacom companies. Yeah. Eventually Viacom bought MTV, Comedy Central, Nickelodeon. They were all part of the same. And so they just kind of swapped, traded, moved things around. So a lot of those comedy components, like the state and the stand-ups and stuff, were just as part of the MTV scene. It became the Comedy Central. No, absolutely.

[00:35:02] That's why I was devastated by post-2004. It's like... After that, it's like, comedy is basically non-existent on MTV. You see more of it on VH1, because they do the, you know, I love this era and other funny talk shows. But it was all pretty much... The comedy was all moved to Comedy Central. And what I just couldn't stand, and my cousins would love this and want to watch it, and I'd be like, can we watch something else?

[00:35:28] Can we watch, like, some edgy show or just something way funnier than this? Like a rerun of Scrubs on Comedy Central or something. And they wanted to watch crap like Pimp My Ride with Exhibit. And I'm like... Or what was the home remodeling house that was on for fucking ever? Oh, um... MTV Cribs. That's what it was. That was all I'll say. So I know... Yeah, I couldn't do it, but they loved it.

[00:35:53] And I'm like, ah, waiting 20 minutes to ask to borrow the remote so we can change the damn channel. You know? Sorry, go ahead. I know MTV started the reality thing with the real world, right? Yeah. What year was that? Yeah. 1992. So that's about the time they started to shift more towards all the reality TV programming. Yeah. Probably because it caught on big ratings and let's... Yeah. This is where the money is. Inexpensive to do. Also, anybody remember the pitch for Miami Vice?

[00:36:24] The pitch? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. MTV Cops. Yeah. The two word pitch and they ran with... Oh, Cops. Yeah. And that was only, what, two or three years after MTV started. So, you know? Well... They knew what they were doing. You know, you were mentioning before about the changes that took place in the 90s and I think it's represented best by the two Woodstocks in the 90s. Yeah. The 1984 one was very much the 120 minutes version of MTV on display.

[00:36:53] You had all those more, you know, Green Day was there, Primus, all those groups that you wouldn't really get during the day most of the time. Primus is a definitely good example. That was like... Late at night. Everything is experimental. But then you go to 1999 when you get the second Woodstock in the 90s, you have the worst possible combinations of groups. Oh, yeah. And their fan bases. And it basically is just like MTV lineup just thrown onto an old Air Force base. Yeah.

[00:37:23] And, you know, terrible consequences. It's like if you had a bunch of pop singers followed by a metal thing. It's like, no, you got to be more like natural with the very diverse... Like those groups don't go together. Yeah. Yeah. Woodstock... Here's the thing that happened was that... Woodstock, yes. Woodstock 99. Yeah. They had these candles out for under the bridge and then Limp Bizkit comes out. Yeah. And you got to realize the conditions... And they broke stuff.

[00:37:50] The conditions at that Air Force base were just horrible. So then what happened was that... Everyone was literally sleeping in their own shit. Yeah. And then they started doing that song, I just want to break stuff. So everybody just started fucking saying, fuck it. You know, for those who want more on it, watch the Vice News, HBO doc, Woodstock 99, and you will be horrified. And that's all I'm going to say, but... Sorry, go ahead. Woodstock 99 is what happened if everybody actually did take the brown ass. Well, greed.

[00:38:20] It was about greed. They charged an arm in the lake for a glass of water and people were just... Or a bottle of water. It was just getting ridiculous. It was ridiculous, but it is so funny. It was supposed to come right at the 30th anniversary of the original. It was the photo negative of it, you know. It was like Altamont. Yeah. It was very shocking. It was. It was Altamont 30 years later. Altamont. Okay. Um, and... It's just so funny seeing Moby in the documentary going, I don't know why I was there then.

[00:38:49] I still don't know why I was there today. I... It wasn't even a good mix. I don't know why they wanted me, you know, a flamboyant, you know, electronic music artist to go to a crowd that wants heavy hard rock, you know, like... Well... I think the thing that got me was the culture had changed too to like... We just wanted mindless as we can. It's lowbrow, even like lowbrow standards.

[00:39:14] It gone from, you know, you know, kids that were, you know, okay, we can appreciate what the 25th anniversary was to these kids that were like, you know, you know, meathead dipshits, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. As homoph... And like the... It's even wilder how like the record execs were not only wanting to cater to the lowest common denominator, but like they would encourage it. Like have there be a lame diss on a celebrity, have there be a homophobic remark.

[00:39:44] It's like, what? Why? It doesn't have anything to do. Like just have the rock tune and it's fine, but you want to insert all this other toxic shit. It was a really poor exit for the 1990s. Right? Because the 90s started so promising. That's why some people hate the 90s. Because they only remember that last five years and you're like... Ended in such a nasty way. I mean, I had... I live pretty close to where they had Woodstock 99 and I had zero interest in going.

[00:40:14] I knew a few people that went, but I had zero interest because I'm like, I'm not going to see those bands. It seems like the worst thing ever. Exactly. I knew it went there and they showed that. Music trends change faster than anything. Yeah. That's kind of what started it. The thing about the Beatles is they would change every year. They'd be a different band every year, you know? Not just... Instead of... That kept the interest going with them, you know? But music... This is before we had... What's hot in music changes like monthly almost, you know?

[00:40:43] Well, this is before we had bands doing carnivals, you know, or charities. It's like, really? Yeah. You come this far, you're an established band and you're going to... You really are that cheap? Like, Cheap Trick actually does stuff like that. I'm like, oh, you've just given your name a different meaning now. But music videos are part of the change and that got to be all bad, you know? Yeah. But that's what makes a movie like This Is Spinal Tap so funny is because they are a

[00:41:11] aging rock band immersed in the MTV. Yes. And they don't know how to adjust to it. But there's... You know, they're oblivious to how to adjust to it. Because like, they're watching... You know, the music is evolving so fast and it's in lightning fast pace because of MTV in that early 80s era where what was fresh one month is completely gone and they're still... They can't adjust to it. And they also... They can't turn it up to 11. At the Air Force Base.

[00:41:39] Not to mention the style is so much like Stop Making Sense or the Apache Mode doc at the time. Yeah. Because it's a mockumentary style, you're just like, oh, you know, you had me fooled. I thought I was watching something legit. What gets me is the kids that like me who liked alternative music, but you know, also like the two big bands were like Pearl Jam and Nirvana and you had guys that were like on the football team saying, I love Pearl Jam, man. And I'm like, these are the guys that would push people like me into the lockers because

[00:42:07] we like all these bands that... That's a good point too. All totally accepted now, but it was almost as taboo as being called a geek or nerd in the 70s and 80s. And now everyone's just oblivious to that. I'm like, at one point or another, something was mocked or hated or impossible to talk about, guys. So don't... When you say you're under attack or you've got a problem, it's like... Just look at earlier what were the societal norms.

[00:42:37] The prime example is today with Beyonce being named the country music artist. Yeah. Now, there's a tie-in with this. Going back, I actually looked up who the first black country singer was and it was Charlie Pryde. Charlie Pryde. I mean, you can throw in Darius Rucker from Hootie and the Bulls. Ray Charles. Ray Charles. There you go. Ray Charles, country... Hey, country and western... Was his album country and western hits? Ray Charles, that was the one that he did?

[00:43:04] Oh, I've got vinyl copies of it. Modern Sounds and Country and Western. Great recommendations and country. Let me go dig it out. Let me go... There's two volumes. There's two volumes. That's what I love. I Can't Stop Loving You is one of the best songs he ever did. But that's what was... Hopefully this was... They gave him a chance, like all these different personas to host a show. Sorry, go ahead, Tom. Now, I'll put it this way. Patsy Cline would kick Beyonce's ass. Yeah.

[00:43:35] No, I'll go one further. No, literally. She would kick her ass. I'm not doubting it. But here's the other thing too. Like, even though some of the producers were stuck up in the 80s and everything, at least everybody was ultimately talking the same language. Like, Prince always got his way. Madonna definitely got her way. All these artists were able to ultimately know what formula was making them a success.

[00:44:02] I think the biggest debacle of this whole Beyonce thing is she claimed, I'm not making a country album. But her producers didn't get that memo and still applied it for CMT, which is known for being pretty racially deaf. And so it's just like, so you guys are not speaking the same language here. Like, is it country or not? Like usually when... But going back to James's point, alternative music was just a little easier to market because it could kind of...

[00:44:30] Kind of like new metal was thrown in some raps. Like alternative could have all kinds of everything from classical piano to laid back pop rock. It was all... It was easier. It was harder to market, but it was easier to fit in in a way at times too. Here's what happened. There were two schools in the Walteruna. There was Seattle... Yes. Big. ...bans. And then you had the bands on the East Coast like the Lemonheads, Buffalo Tom, Dinosaur

[00:44:58] Junior, you know, Matthew Sweet, who was in Georgia, you know, R.E.M. You know, there were two... R.E.M. was wonderful. R.E.M. You had the mats and Husker Du, which... They got the singer from B-52s in that one. Yeah. I can remember like... Like it was like... Like MTV was like this juggernaut to like, I think, 97, 98. And then to me, it just kind of like faded. It became like less... Yeah. But it was TRL.

[00:45:28] TRL. TRL. The move to Times Square was a pretty big part of that, I think. Yeah. I think so. I was just watching a video last night of... From... Somewhere in the mid-90s. And it was people being interviewed, teenagers being interviewed as they're coming out of Virgin Record Store in Times Square about their purchases. And they had... They're like, oh, this is Dave Matthews Band and Offspring. And I mean, pretty diverse group of CDs that they were buying. They kind of posted after a while.

[00:45:57] Like the only thing they had to worry about was, is this year's award show going to be awesome? We're going to give out the movie awards. But right across the street from there is the reason why they had such diverse interests is because MTV was playing Offspring videos right after Spice Girls videos. And everything was... Oh, man. I was... So my uncle's cousin was some kind of producer at MTV in that era. Some kind of producer? That's got to be true. Yeah, I don't know exactly her job.

[00:46:27] But we were... That's great on a resume. Some kind of producer. We were visiting my relatives and we got a tour of the MTV Times Square studios just before they opened. Wow. And it was like a behind the scenes thing. Ah. And I think that they thought that my family was some kind of big time deal because...

[00:46:56] You're the shit man. Well, we met Matt Pinfield because he was the VJ at that time. I mean, he was a nice... I think he was genuinely a nice guy, but he got out of his chair. He was in makeup and he came, oh, hey, how you guys doing? He shook our hands and... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to watch me record the show later on? And I'm like, oh, sure. And I guess Chris Rock had just been there doing some kind of promo. Yeah, Chris Rock. Let me tell you. Fiona Apple had been there earlier in the day.

[00:47:25] And it was great getting that kind of treatment and getting to see everything behind the scenes and see how it all worked. It works. But even at that time, I recognized that this was the dawning of a new era for MTV because instead of being sort of the bad boy of... You know, they're right there in Times Square. You're overlooking...

[00:47:51] You know, this is really the centerpiece of American pop culture media is Times Square. Yeah. And MTV is right there with the Virgin Megastore. And my young cousin was... While we were getting a tour of MTV, she was down in the hall getting a tour of Nickelodeon. Oh, yeah. So it was like... And Comedy Central is just down the street.

[00:48:15] It was like the big corporate giant was flexing its muscles and be like, we're going to put MTV... We're taking over cables, dude. Here's what... A lot of bands too was the rise of the boy bands and the teeny bop singers. That's why you had... That's why, you know, remember 98 Degrees. Yeah. Yeah. Boy's band. I wasn't quite about fashion boys. You had to bring them up. Nsync. Yeah.

[00:48:44] Not me. Oh, Nsync. Okay. No. They were out of sync with the times. But yeah. And then, you know, Britney Spears and all those... They came along and it was like, okay, all you guys who were popular from like this year to this year, go to the back. This is what's going to come in now. And I can remember just going... Yeah, it's a changing. It's always something... Yeah. Yeah. TRL was responsible for most of that. Yeah.

[00:49:14] And that was the ultimate in democratic... I mean, TRL was the original Twitter if you think about it. It really was. Yeah. My mind was blown because much like CNN, it was like, there's news at the bottom of the screen, you know, while comedians and DJs are talking. Do you remember the original TRL? Because, I mean, Carson Daly always hosted it. I couldn't see him. But the original TRL was in a quiet... It was just him with a computer in a dark room. Yeah. And he was getting requests through the computer.

[00:49:44] And he's like, all right. And it was very low key. But yeah. It wasn't really as obnoxious as it became. Didn't they go to Orlando a few times a year? Because, like, I can remember just like it looked like they were like a single... Yeah, they did. Spring Break. Spring Break. Oh, that's right. Yeah. There was also MTV Beach House with Tiki God. That was what I remember the most. Oh, yeah. Tiki God. I don't know if Jack Black was on one, but I remember Anthony Anderson would be on a few and he would be witties. Like, oh, of course.

[00:50:12] When Vincent Van Gogh cut off his ear and sent it to a girlfriend, people said he was nuts. But is it any more rational for you to listen to MTV on a cruddy little television speaker when you can get it in stereo? Science! No one of no answers no follows. And I'm back some hovick's on to... MTV in stereo. An ear is a terrible thing to waste.

[00:50:38] We remember when we do MTV Spring Break and I remember the one time Gilbert Gottfried was on with Jenny McCarthy and was like... I practically fell off my chair laughing because he kept, can I have a hug from you? Oh, good. I just had an orgasm. Like, he just would say something so... It's... You know, you watch this like almost like a car accident with those kinds of combinations. Like, you see it coming a mile away and you can't get...

[00:51:06] And it's like because it was like the new MTV meeting the old MTV. Gilbert Gottfried would have been just perfect for late 80s MTV, you know, late at night. And Jenny McCarthy was the, you know, from the dating show on MTV, which was a bad combination. Famous for being famous. If you really want a cringe MTV moment, take a look at...

[00:51:33] Go look up on YouTube MTV Scatter Day. Oh my God. It was when ska music was getting pretty popular. Oh God. And they... Carson Daly's dressed up as a rude boy with his black suit and a hat on. Yeah, I saw part of those. They have all these people dancing around and skateboarding behind him and... The Tony Hawk craze was out of control. It was just... It's the most cringe-worthy thing ever. I lived in a no two. I'm like, what the fuck is this show?

[00:52:02] There's also MTV's WCW contract too. Oh God, I remember that. Oh my God, we gotta talk a bit about that. It can't be any worse than what else we talked about. No, I'll go one better. I'll go one better. MTV had a show... Undressed. No, no, not... It was a dance show. I remember that. That was a drill. It was a dance show. I forget. It was MTV with Downtown Julie Brown was the host. There was the grind. No, not the... It wasn't...

[00:52:32] It wasn't the grind? It wasn't the grind, but... It was like a... Oh my God. I can see it in my head. That's how vivid it was. Okay, so they do always say... Yeah. The grind was between 92 to 97, so... All right, so they did one episode where it was all alternative music. So you see all these guys that are like, you know, muscle-banging, and they're like headbanging. And I'm like, this is fucking weird. This is like...

[00:53:00] This is kind of hip, you know, the lowest of the low one. The grind... Was it the grind or was it something... Club MTV? Club MTV, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. But see, for those who don't know, they're like, oh, you really work on your IMDb. This is like, here's the thing. They would transition somewhat seamlessly into other shows half the time and be like, wait a minute. Now I'm not watching this. Now so-and-so's taking over for the next hourly block of the next kind of music. But yeah, Club MTV, yeah. So that was 87 to 92.

[00:53:30] You'll find this funny. Because for a long time it was a pretty low-budget channel. Like they didn't spend a lot of money on sets or... They would recycle a lot of their stuff. And that... And it wasn't really until the late 90s that they poured more money into things. Yeah, and I think that kind of feeds into the idea that they were more like... It was a little like pirate radio almost. It was kind of... Yeah. Yeah, it had that kind of vibe to it. And that's something that I knew me growing up. It's like, hey, that's kind of cool.

[00:53:59] And so I got into it. And then Christian Slayer... Christian Slayer was on that. ...keem up with the pump of the volume and then I got out of the higher radio. I was 14 when MTV started. So, you know, I felt like it, you know, he was growing up with me at the time.

[00:54:20] And I kind of, when I graduated in 86, that was around the time I felt like MTV was starting to slide away from what I was seeing in my youth. Yeah. You were turning into an adult too. You'll find this funny. They apparently did release an album for MTV Grind back in 97. It's basically, just looking at the listing now, it's basically everything that's still on the electronic stations on XM radio. You got Depache Mode, Spice Girls, Alternate and Funky Green Dogs.

[00:54:51] Amber and garbage. You think about how much discretionary income teenagers had from the 80s to the 90s. Everyone I... They churned out a pretty reasonably priced CD. An album for TV. They would just eat it right up. That was the beauty of it though. Like, it seemed like for a while cable TV was a way of getting people interested in stuff that was currently...

[00:55:12] Like, definitely back in 02, I can tell you for a fact, like, people were swearing by various foul-mouthed comedians and nutty talk show hosts and rude puppet stuff. And it... I kind of did what... I kind of did what Mike did. Um, I would, you know, I'd watch MTV and I'd be waiting for videos I really liked and record about videos. Yeah. You had to wait to the talking heads in the room before. It was just an extension of when I used to do that for the radio and listen for songs. In schools.

[00:55:41] All these they recorded in 99. That's... It was the turn of the century and they ran every video. It's wild how... You could tell if someone was a fan because, like, they would wear all kinds of t-shirts with band logos on it. And that was kind of where it was becoming more popular. But... And... Um... I gotta bring... So, um... Gil, you decided to watch a biography... Uh... Presents, uh... Yep. I want my MTV 2019 music doc. Uh...

[00:56:11] What did you take away from that retrospect? Oh, I... I just, uh... Was... In... The... The most interesting thing for me was I didn't know about Mike Nesmith being involved with... Yeah. Uh... MTV until I watched that, you know, biography. Oh, this is it. Like, it'd be funny to even talk to people who videotaped it back in the day. Like... Uh... I can't... I can't remember... I'm sure.

[00:56:35] I was just gonna say, and, you know, I didn't really give any thought until I saw the biography, uh, you know, about how much MTV helped launch careers like, uh, Michael Jackson and Madonna and... Mm-hmm. Some others I can't think of at the moment. We kind of took it for granted, like a talk show host versus, no, this actually was a career boost. Like, without them, they wouldn't be where they are. Yeah. Well, Springsteen's biggest album selling-wise, Born in the USA, had seven videos. Yep. Yeah.

[00:57:05] Dancing in the Dark was directed by De Palma. I gotta say, though, when I saw... When I saw Dancing in the Dark, I'd seen him live five or six times by then, and I said, this looks really stilted and awkward. It was... I said, he doesn't move like that on stage. You know, it was De Palma saying, okay... Right. You know? I... I find it amusing now. It's funny how De Palma has been... had a career filled with mixed reviews, and he... it's no exception.

[00:57:32] Like, everyone's like, that's a cool video. I don't like how it's lit. It's not in the critique. Now, the Am I Inspired video was interesting because it was a little mini-movie. You know, he's a garage mechanic and... Yeah. Yeah. And that goes back to... and that also goes back to something that started out around the time that MTV started, really started getting popular. Yeah. Yeah. Vans like Duran Duran, who were putting out... every video was like a mini-movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's true.

[00:58:00] They had a video you could rent in video stores of... Yeah. So what's videos that stand out for everyone? I mean, I like... like, you know, you've got the, you know, Money for Nothing, Chicks for Free, whatever song that was. Definitely China Girl with... by David Bowie. Um, I'm gonna say... Ashes to... well, there's a couple for me. Ashes to Ashes, but no, no, no, no. Let's Dance by David Bowie. No, hey, hey, nice.

[00:58:29] I think probably Michael Jackson's Thriller. Yeah, that's pretty important. You kind of need it. Yeah. Madonna's video for... that was banned. What was it called? Sacrificing my love. Justifying my love. Yes. Didn't Michael Jackson's first video, wasn't that Billie Jean? Yeah. And he couldn't dance in it. No, he couldn't dance, no.

[00:58:59] It didn't stop him. No, seriously, he couldn't. Yeah, I know, but it didn't stop him. That's the funny thing. Wait, like he wasn't allowed to? Nope. Wow. Yeah, it was his... I think it was the director or the producer, so no dancing whatsoever. And he's like, well, then I'll just do stop. I'll do stop motion dancing now and then. Did he know who Michael Jackson was? Michael Jackson. Do you know who you're talking to? Yeah, that's like asking Busta Rhymes to not curse. That's just not gonna happen. Or not be in a Walmart commercial.

[00:59:29] What was that video that had? I didn't know it was a Walmart. That's Ice-T, leave him alone. I can't think of the name of this video, but it had animation, like hand-drawn animation. Take on me. Take on me, aha. Take on me, okay. There was some cool visuals though. Sorry, but the family guy ruined that video for me. Oh, come on. Oh my God. Come on, it's a homage. Sabotaged by the Beastie Boys. Sabotaged. Yeah, yeah.

[00:59:59] Sabotaged by the Beastie Boys. I mean, there's still many, but one that sticks out to me, I keep thinking, is A Manner of Trust, Billy Joel. Yes, yeah. It's shot on the street and it's got this heavy sound. It's just a good song, a great song. And then, I gotta say though, Miami Vice, the first episode with Phil Collins in the air tonight. In the air tonight. In the air tonight with a shot of a car at street level. That was good.

[01:00:30] I don't know if it was on an MTV video, but it was definitely, it would be. It probably was. Well, Miami Vice was like just little MTV moments. Right. Yeah. If it wasn't on there, it was probably on VH1, but yeah. In all fairness. Dwight Yoakam and whatever song's on right now. That's pretty groundbreaking video behind you, Mike. There was that. There was. I think if you guys, do you remember Land of Confusion where he's like marching in the rain? That's one of the graves.

[01:00:58] Land of Confusion was the puppets. Yeah, spite your face. That was the Genesis song. So, right. So yeah. Okay. Then I'm probably. Okay. So there was puppet, but there was some other kind of very atmospheric. Maybe it was red rain by Peter Gabriel. There was some kind of. Red rains. The one reason the rain. Okay. Yes. In the eighties in the air tonight was my favorite song. Right. Let's film them in the rain.

[01:01:28] But no, that's true. Like the video was kind of excuse to re. Listen to the song half the time. Yeah. You get on tape. You get the making of and then. Yeah. I don't know. For me, a little like that is, is makes it work too. Yeah. For me, the end I'll be all has got to be Sledgehammer. Yep. Yes. Yeah. How he's drawing on the board and everything and making all these. Do you remember? I remember watching Sledgehammer on my mom in the room. She goes, I think these people are on drugs.

[01:01:58] Oh, they probably were. I remember. I remember the little, like the humorous things that you said, like, Santa Claus, the man, the myth, the slam dancer. And it was like these kids slam dancing. And somebody put an animated Santa Claus, like, Yes. Like slam dancing with the kids. And I remember Stevie Washington, the angry youth born to die, New York's New York. And it was like, and it was like this cartoon that they did was, you know, which we were following like, you know, at weekly.

[01:02:27] And then they had a, what was the one? Okay. So it was a serial kind of. Yeah. And then they had Toby, who's, who's, who's the, who's, uh, played Artie, the world's strongest man on, uh, on, uh, yeah, on Pete and Pete, where he was doing like a Sinatra like character. Yeah. That was a shtick. Yep. Yeah. Damn you booze. Damn you to hell. Oh, maybe just one more glass, you know? Yeah. That, that got him singing the theme song for the brothers grunts. If anybody.

[01:02:57] Oh God. I wish that MTV would have shown more live concerts. That was rare. That would have been. That would have been. They did. They actually did show live concerts. And at least they did some concert videos, usually on Saturday night, around 10 o'clock where I'm at. And they did like, uh, I remember watching, uh, uh, I remember watching, uh, like Mr. Roboto. Yes. And Duran. Yeah. Duran Duran. Duran Duran.

[01:03:26] Especially the girls on film one where they're in the islands and everything. Well, then they also, they'd hosted live aid, the U S part. Yeah. Oh yeah. The big finale. I was watching a bunch of people in Holland, Michigan, and we were all bitching. Cause they keep kept coming to the BJ's instead of the stage, you know? Oh yeah. They used a lot of footage from. That last, that last number. You know. They need loppers. Girls just want to have fun. Yeah. Especially when her father is very badly lip singing. Her words.

[01:03:55] That's Captain Lou Albano. I'll have you know. Yeah. You know, when it came to my performances, I was thinking Austin city limits, but I forgot that was, uh, Iowa public television. I was watching that. Yeah. Yep. PBS will still reshow. I used a lot of footage from Woodstock. Ninety four. The midnight special in the seventies on NBC. Yeah. Midnight special Don Kirscher's. Hello. Welcome to Don Kirscher's rock concert. Today, one of the most powerful guitar players on the scene tonight will be on our show. Mr.

[01:04:24] Peter Frampton. Let's watch him. Um, if anybody remembers, they would show, they would, um, show movies on MTV. They would. They would. So yeah. They made movies. Yeah. Well, what I thought was when VH1. Yeah. There was those specials, but I, that's kind of why I thought VH1 had it better down is they would do music biopics with various actors playing famous singers. There was a show they did.

[01:04:52] There was a movie they showed called eat the rich, which I don't think anybody has. I think I'm the only person who saw it. It was about, um, dark comedy, right? It was a dark comedy about these people that open up a restaurant and what they do is they serve food. But what they do is they find rich people, kill them and then serve them for people to people to eat. And the restaurant becomes a smashing success.

[01:05:17] And I remember the only people I remember that movie are Lenny, Lenny Kilmster, Nasha Powell and Fiona, uh, Lewis, who was in, who was a, um, she was like a big and like soft core porn. And all I remember is like just watching that movie, just laughing my ass. Cause there's one scene like we ran out of it. We ran out of the baby. You know, unless you see Bill Wyman get up, he goes to the bathroom. Like, like you just said, Oh, we just got our main Porsche back. Don't worry.

[01:05:46] It was so sick to watch, but I was laughing my ass a lot. And for a lot of people, uh, the, it was MTV where they first saw George Romero's night of the living dead because they, they, they'd run that on Halloween. That's right. I forgot about that. That was amazing. I gotta, I gotta get going in the background. We got having none though. And I just wanted one last thing about, uh, this whole thing is I, I credit MTV for getting

[01:06:14] me into my all time favorite band, the Ramones, because it was a, it was a one, two punch. They, they, they appeared on, uh, the MTV movie awards that John Lovitz was hosting one year. And they did in two minutes, all of the songs that were up for a best song from a movie. That was 95 apparently. Wow. Yeah. And it was the year before they broke up. But I, I, I was watching, I'm like, who are these guys? This is amazing. This is perfect.

[01:06:44] As your parents. Play so fast. And then the next day they played the, I saw the, I want to be sedated video, which they actually, you know, cause that came out in the seventies. The song did, but they re-recorded a video for it later on. And I was just, it was a one, two punch for me. I was like, that is like, where have these guys been? I was just, you know, I was about 15. I was really getting into rock and roll and, and loving it and everything. And I'm like, this, this is everything to me.

[01:07:12] And it was, you know, MTV, they did all they could. I mean, Joey Ramone was a regular fixture on 120 minutes. You know, he, he was at MTV video music awards a few times in the eighties. They did all they could to get that band, the credibility and the respect that they were owed, but they never really got it. Cause their videos were all the same. It was, they had no money for videos. So it was always just them playing, you know, to the camera as if they were, you know,

[01:07:42] they didn't really have the, the ability to do narrative. They did a, they, Eric, before you go, they did do a video for a rock and roll high school. That's what I was trying to think of the rock and roll. Yeah. It's pretty bad. They did play the movie. They were actually sedated. That was, that was my introduction to the Ramones was that movie. Yeah. Okay. I got a true story about the Ramones. I DJed in Grand Rapids for about 10 years, Friday night.

[01:08:10] Uh, I music and comedy, 21, 20. I probably got there for 120 minutes. One night I get a call and it was the road manager of the Ramones. He just got off the airport and it was dialing around. He picked me up. He says, I like what you're playing. So that was, that made my night. And I read it down. It was legit. It was actually him. This is a perfect way to segue myself out of here because, um, I was, I never got to

[01:08:39] see that band live because like I said, they broke up within a few months of me getting into them. But on my podcast in the first episode of my second season of everything's a primary source, I was delighted to invite Monty C. Mel. Nick, they wrote me as a guest on the show. And so he was really friendly guy. And it was for me, it was the perfect way to, uh, you know, satisfy that fact that I never got, I got to talk to the guy for two hours and it was incredible.

[01:09:07] So if you want to listen to that, just check out my podcasts, go back to season two and everybody check out. So thank you guys. I hope you have a good rest of your conversation. Thanks for having me on. Please check out everything is a primary source. And go to everything dash history.com. Yes. For the website. Thank you for being a long time coming.

[01:09:35] And how about thank you also though, Mack for wanting to bring this up. Cause like this, I think so many visual effects companies definitely got, uh, almost all of them have a music video credit at one point or another, you know? Oh yeah. And, and, and there was, there's a director that, you know, when the nineties came around, I mean, everybody, everybody directed videos, but there was one guy in the nineties. Russell Mokah, he did it. John Landis did it.

[01:10:04] Um, but there's a guy, Spike Jones. Yes. That, that everybody, like, I remember all the Daft Punk videos or. No, not even. He did, he did Weezer. He did. Yeah. He did Daft Punk though. He did Daft Punk. And then there was another guy. He was the bass player in the lemon heads. He just did a recent one. Yeah. He just held the recent, uh, Dick Van Dyke and Coldplay video. Yeah.

[01:10:34] And I think the thing is, is that, you know, directors became the big thing after the nineties. It's just a lot of these things like Anton Corbin from, you know, did that Nirvana video. Yeah. I mean, George Clooney and control and a bunch of, even a bunch of other music biopics and Anton Fuqua's does Coolio's paradise. And now he's a go-to, you know, action. Mark Romanek who did a few music videos and then he would go on to make one hour photo with Robin Williams. Yeah.

[01:11:04] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes like you're saying with like the Landis and, uh, uh, and some of the other guys, it's interesting how much like Brian DePaul was, some of the guys who are known for even frillers will still come back into the world once in a while. Joe Schumacher does a, I think one for like you too, in the two thousands. I've seen Michael Jackson's ghosts. I forget. Cause that keeps aging so fucking long. I watched the video. Thriller was John Landis. I know that. Yeah.

[01:11:34] Okay. Um, cause I watched the ghost and I was like, damn, this is better than Thriller. Mmm. I should say on I need me. Uh, in 97, that was by Stan Winston. Yeah, that's it. Whoa. That was cool as shit. I love that. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's our news. It's so good. Like, I don't know how I didn't know. Wow. We'll return after these messages.

[01:12:05] If you like small town mystery, crazy news and wild history, then the Florida men on Florida man podcast is for you. Each week, Josh Mills and Wayne McCarty bring you the absolute best Florida has to offer. So if you're looking for a show that's safe for the family, but funny enough to help you escape everyday life, then listen to the Florida men on Florida man podcast. That's Florida men plural on Florida man podcast. Hey, it's Brent Pope, the host of breakfast with Brent Pope.

[01:12:35] You've seen me on some of your favorite TV shows saying things like give it up, Jimmy. You got to sink this put to win on breakfast with Brent Pope. I sit down with guests for the entertainment world and we do it all over breakfast. Or should I say breakfast every week on breakfast you get inside Hollywood info and tips. Great breakfast wrecks and booty debates. Most of all, you get the most delightful 30 minutes of your week. So dig in. It's Brent fist time. Listen at Brent fist.com Apple podcasts or wherever fine podcasts are found.

[01:13:03] Here's the one thing that gets me when, when, when we all watched MTV, does anybody remember other stations starting to do like a whole, like they would have their own little thing. Like I remember MTV having video jukebox when I was a kid. I remember that. Yeah. I know. I know. Yeah. And Canada was also big into video jukebox too, because they, because I remember seeing a segment where they did, where they were showing a video for Russia's red bar shadow. Mm.

[01:13:32] Mm hmm. Yeah. Rush had some crazy videos. That is for sure. Well, you know, what was everybody's opinion of the take of the, you know, you know, the VH one. Yeah. They had to have an answer to it basically. I mean, so then when weather channels start changing and everything like now the whole scroll text at the bottom of the screen is like so secondary now. Yeah. When it came out, I thought I saw VH one is the adult contemporary version of MTV. Yeah.

[01:14:01] It was a little more watered down. I thought. Yeah. Well, I should say something because my brother-in-law was on that channel. Yeah. It's better. My brother-in-law had a video on that channel. Oh yeah. Island life by Michael Franks. I remember being on. I remember my father going, Oh yeah, it's on VH one. I'm like, you don't get VH one. I just got. And I just like, we don't get VH one. I just said, thank God. Um, you know, where, you know, I could be wrong.

[01:14:30] Cause I want, I'm thinking it's MTV, but it could have been VH one. Do you remember where pop-up video got started? That was VH one. VH one. Okay. Nevermind. They still seem to do it on MTV classic where they'll have like, I mean, AMC would do that for a while. Story notes. Yeah. Stop popping up during the middle of the movie, dude. Come on. Oh, wait, I'll go one better. Does anybody remember when Amadeus came out? Yeah.

[01:14:56] That somebody put together a video showing that Mozart was like a rock and roll star in his time. So they had stuff by, you know, Alice Cooper and the Beatles and the who and the stones and Bowie and all that shit. And I mean, I was like, it was amazing. Cause it introduced Mozart's music to a whole new generation. Yeah. That movie, you know, and I can remember watching it going like, Oh, okay. No, cause the beginning is David Lee Roth coming.

[01:15:25] Okay. Folks, let's make this fast. I got to have this suit back by six. And it just starts off and it's just wonderful video. You know, it had like Van Halen and like, you know, dialogue beginning everything. Yeah. Was that rock me Amadeus? No, no, that was no. The video. The video for the Amadeus movie is symphony number 25 and G major. Okay.

[01:15:54] But they, they said, you know, from the movie Amadeus and you know, it's like extra market. Yeah. They marketed it. And I thought it was really well done. You know, I liked it, you know, is it played by Otter from animal house? Yep. Not Otter. Otter. Tom Hulse. Yeah. Pinto. Pinto. Yeah. Tom Hulse. Otter was the one that got the Dean's wife. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:16:25] I don't know if that movie would play today. Who knows? It's college movies. It's probably not. I think the thing that always gets me the most about MTV when we were all growing up was, you could be anybody and make a music video. Yeah. I remember the Dean. They never asked what was the budget. They asked, is it safe to air? Okay, cool. Yeah. I can remember they wouldn't show certain videos. Like, I don't know where they wouldn't show certain videos after like 10 o'clock or something like that. You know, I was like, it's you watching now.

[01:16:54] They're so tame, you know, a lot. Many of them are even the ones that are risque or had people dancing. Like there's still there are a long ways away from before we had shit like, you know, half the metal bands are having what looks like someone about to commit suicide or and don't get me started on R Kelly. I thought it was bad then. It's still bad now. Frankie goes to Hollywood had that one song. Relax. Oh, yeah. They had to do two versions of it.

[01:17:22] They did one where it was the actual like, you know, they're like in this like club. Well, you know, that does very strange things. And then then they did one where they were on stage doing the song. And everybody gets into it with them, you know, like the crowds going like this fever pitch with the crowd. I like the live cut better than the than the, you know, the same. Yeah. Yeah. Does anybody remember? Duran Duran had had the same thing. Yeah.

[01:17:51] Duran Duran had the same thing happen with their video for girls on film. Yeah. I remember being in a video store. So what was this guy comes in and said his daughter's rented that video. The compilation visa. It's it's porno. I mean, the whole video. Yeah, it was worse. Yeah. Yeah. So girls on film. I don't recall much. Just people on a bow and then on an island. And then. No, it was. They were like doing like a. It was like.

[01:18:18] It was like doing like a Japanese house or something like some geisha house or something like that. It was more like a. I tried more like a boxing ring. I'll know. Okay. They had some. Okay. So they had a. They had a nurse giving. They're giving a massage. They had somebody writing a man dressed up like a horse. Okay. So maybe. Yeah. Rio's the one. Rio's the one you're thinking of. Okay. Yeah. You know, but they might have had a cut where girls are topless.

[01:18:48] I don't know. Yeah, it was. It was on the home video version. I'm trying to remember there. There's some. Does anybody remember? Is it Chris Isaac? I think the song was. Oh, my God. Wicked game. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I looked at that. And it's like they thought that was the most over the top. I mean, you don't see anything. But again, you have to look at it just from. The more conservative 80s where they're looking at just just the notion alone.

[01:19:17] Oh, you can't do that. It's like even though it's kind of present in the songs narrative, like I can sing about it, but I can't. Well, Reagan, Coke and Spandex. Remember that folks. Early early in the history of MTV. They did something that goes back to AM radio. I remember growing up in the early 70s. They had this thing on AM radio champ or challenger where they play us two songs and you. Oh, yes. It was the MTV video fights. It was the same idea. Video fights. Yeah.

[01:19:47] They play back. Yeah. I think it ran all Friday night. They just kept, you know, would you call 900 number for 50 cents to vote or something or NBC did the same thing Friday night fights. I remember that. But here's the other thing too. Like, oh, maybe. Oh, maybe it was NBC that not MTV. I thought it was NBC. Okay. I thought it was. Well, but that's awesome though. Like that was everybody was taking advantage of the whole thing. But like, do you remember when everyone actually looks forward to Fridays?

[01:20:17] Like that's when I'm clocking out. I'm going home. I'm going to hang with friends and family and the wife. And I'm going to watch something cool, whether it's something on pay-per-view or something I rented or whatever's on cable TV. And it's like, I don't really get that now. Everyone's kind of just. It's Friday. Yeah. They're just like, whatever. Take a breath. Take a breath. Yeah. I love it. Take a breath. The thing I was saying about Fridays was that we would watch something Friday.

[01:20:44] Then Saturday, you know, I'd watch cartoons and Saturday afternoon, like, you know, into the evening. That's why my family was in the PB's Playhouse. Like that was their weekend morning. Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Paige. I got to argue with that. It means they had Friday night videos. That's right. Yeah. But the video fights was MTV. I'm almost positive. Are you sure? I Google it. I'm already having a fight about it. Yeah. I don't know. I kept thinking it was Friday night. Friday night video. Oh, wait.

[01:21:14] No, you're right, Mike. You're right. You're right. Yeah. You guys are never wrong. I'm going to Google it. Now you'll love this. I'm going to get on the Google and find out. I don't mean to argue with it. Riddle me this. Why did anyone give a shit about the real world? Well, because it was a true story about seven strangers picked to live in a house or a loft or an apartment. And Pedro. Yeah. That's the only one I can remember. I love it.

[01:21:42] Going for it now on Amazon for 1277 is the real world greatest fights and it has an X rating. Yeah. They, they, they had some, they had some really weird characters on their boat. One of them. People would talk about it. I'm like, why am I? Doug, Doug Winnick. I think he was one of the earlier seasons. Maybe he got into the comic book industry as an artist. Oh my God. Oh, I know him. Yeah. Green Lantern. I didn't know he was on the real world. Yeah.

[01:22:12] Um, he also wrote a book about his relationship with, with, uh, Pedro Zamora. Yeah. Called Pedro on me, which is a really great book to read, but I can remember like the first season of that was New York. The second season was, the second season was Los Angeles and Los Angeles was like, they had the country boy, John, who was like, you know, we wore a 10 gallon hat and he, you know, he was, he was, you know, I'm like thinking to myself, you know, Jesus, cause

[01:22:41] this is whoa. And then they had stuff used to be stupid, but it was kind of also funny. And it was like, when, when they got to Jersey shore, I was done. I'm like, please stop. I mean, I tried real world and I didn't really get into it. Like it was around the two thousands when they like really went more edgy. And you always said, Oh no, there's boobs and there's guys making out and girls making out. Big fucking deal.

[01:23:10] They're paid for it. Now those shows are being exploited. Now those shows are now on a, or have their own network. It's called Bravo. Oh, Universal took a cue. Yeah. But I'm going to, I'm going to tell you that second season of the real world. You have to watch it because there was three, there was this guy, David, he was a comedian and he was joking around. He was joking around with this girl, Tanny and he dragged her out of bed.

[01:23:39] Like, you know, like kind of like, you know, jokingly dragged her out of bed. Like, you know, like recover from, and they all accused him of like trying to rape her. Oh my God. And it was like, it was like, they just sat there. Someone thought that was funny. No, no, no. Like, no. And they were like, he's like, you know, they had like the three bets on there. There were the two bets. And then there was, they kicked him out of the house. Then they brought in this other guy. And then the girl, the other girl left. And then they brought in another girl. Who's a lesbian. Who's a lesbian.

[01:24:09] And it was like, okay. Okay. The third one, I just kind of went baked out, you know, kind of went because they brought in, um, they brought in like these people that I was like going to be a I don't identify with these people at all. Puck was supposed to be this like, you know, bad boy. Puck Rainey. He was a gross out artist, man.

[01:24:37] He was like, he'd pick his nose and, you know, dip peanut butter with it. You know, he'd spit on the floor. You know, he never showered, you know, they kicked him out because Pedro didn't like him. He's still something stupid. Oh, go ahead. I was just gonna say, I kind of lost interest with the real world. You know, I didn't watch more than an episode of it. And that was it. Um, and then I kind of veered away from MTV for a while, but then I started.

[01:25:04] I was gonna say, and I started to notice things in the nineties, like the liquid television. And like, you know, and Beavis and Butthead. I like, I got it. You know, I got, I like the humor for that. And, um, but yeah, liquid television with, uh, which introduced isn't liquid television the one that introduced Aeon Flux. Yep. Yep. Oh, liquid television. There's videos on YouTube of that. And then, you know, and then they did like, it was a dumbed down mystery science theater.

[01:25:31] And then they did like the max, which was a comic book. The max was amazing. And they did the head. Remember the head? Yeah. Do you remember the stick figure theater they did where they tried to do their own? Yeah. That was amazing. They did their own thing for, uh, for Night of the Living Dead. They did Night of the Living Dead. They did, uh, Cyrano de Bergerac. They did, um, the, the Hindenburg disaster. I remember. They did Henry, uh, was it Henry V.

[01:26:01] Syco. Mm-hmm. So I would watch, I would watch those and be hysterical laughing. Cause it was like, you know, the guy, they would just like, they would play like, like, it was like supposed to be like, you know, uh, Hitchcock. Hitchcock was this big round figure. So you won't believe what you saw. I mean, the blood was just everywhere. And I just, you know, they would take the audio and just draw around the audio. You know? Um, I remember the, there was a one they did called, um, well, be, well, beavis and butthead came out of liquid television.

[01:26:30] I remember that, but there was one, um, they did called, what was it? Uh, dog boy, dog boy, crazy daisy ed. Right. Um, what was the other one? Um, there was, there were a couple on there. I would like just be just, I would just be like, okay, I get the humor in this, you know? Um, but beavis and butthead came out of liquid television. Cause it was frog baseball. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:27:01] Did anyone go to the theater to see that movie when it came out? Oh yeah. Do America. Oh yeah. Yeah. I think I've got the, my wife had the CD. I was 25 and I went into the theater and it was just full of teenagers. I think my wife and I were the only ones over 20 in that theater. That soundtrack. I'm good. To this day, love roller coaster by the red hot chili peppers is easily one like the top three greatest cover songs ever made. Oh yeah. Yeah. I get, I think lesbian.

[01:27:30] Ohio players, but who covered it again? Red hot chili peppers. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they're from, uh, they got roots where I live here. Mm hmm. I think. And I do want to give a shout out to MTV because they were the ones that introduced me to anime when they would rerun the classic speed racer anime. Oh yeah. Yes. Oh, that's right. Hmm. So I, I sent a link about Friday night videos or video fights. Yes.

[01:27:57] It occurred to me, NBC, they did Saturday night live was originally Saturday night because they stole the title from Howard Cosell. They're not even live. So then they did the same thing with MTV Friday night video fights. They had NBC Friday night videos that I was like, what the hell? Yeah. And they had the not ready for primetime players. Remember Saturday night live had the not ready for primetime players. And the thing that's funny is primetime players on it and Cosells, right? On Cosells.

[01:28:27] But the funny thing is Bill Murray was on the Cosell one. Yeah. Yeah. And I think Billy Crystal as well. Yeah. I think he was hanging around. He was trying to get on the original SNL. If you see the movie, he shows up in there, but he wasn't, he shows up what, you know, years later, but I think he was trying to get on the original SNL the first season. Wow.

[01:28:52] I can, I can, I remember MTV, like they were always going, like, they were like, like they would push, they would always push a movie on. So I think one time they showed a hard day's night. I remember them showing that. Okay. And then they did, they would do like rock and roll high school. They did eat the rich. I think they did. I remember them showing a lot of stuff by Queen, but they would show the, the queen.

[01:29:21] We are the, we will rock you. We are the champions from Queen live in Montreal. It would show that. Nice. Then they would show Bohemian Rhapsody. I think they showed under pressure a lot more than you expected because of the, I love how they edited under pressure though. That's some funny shit. You know what I said? I think this is live footage of Pink Floyd here. You know what I said? I saw Bohemian Rhapsody in the video. I just looked at this and I was 29 actually. Okay.

[01:29:49] Which is more depressing, but you know. That's 29. David. We got our start somewhere. Yeah. What'd you say when you were 29? Yeah. I saw Beavis and Butthead do America when I was 29 in the theaters and there was a bunch of teenagers in there. It was just me and my wife were the over 20 crowd. Okay. Ah, you're still on the bracket there. Someone had to do it. But the thing about. What do you used to do? Nothing.

[01:30:15] The thing about, the thing about MTV is that they were able to do so much then and the artists who were putting out the videos, you had complex videos, like the ones that were really complicated, like Sledgehammer, Aha, and Don't Me. Crossroads. But you also had simple ones like with Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush, Don't Give Up. Yeah. It's just two people in an embrace going around and around.

[01:30:43] And it is just, it's so powerful in its simplicity. Then you compare it to something that's a little bit more of a big budget production like Duran Duran's Wild Boys. Oh, that was amazing. Springsteen's brilliant disguise is just him sitting in the kitchen with a slow zoom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really did push the boundaries of. Had to. I wouldn't just say. Yeah.

[01:31:12] It pushed the boundaries of not just making music videos, but I think it had impact on cinema as it. Yeah. And definitely TV because. They wanted similar stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It was a matter. It wasn't just the zeitgeist at the time. It was like it to a movie going or to the movie companies. They were like, this is revolutionary. We need to do something with it. And then that's where you get a movie like Tron and you get things that are that are.

[01:31:43] That are. The God show moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, even if they didn't understand it, they they wanted to replicate that success. Yeah. If you ever see the movie for Elvis Costello's Verac from 1988. Yeah. When he did Spike. That was about his grandmother. Oh. He was going through dementia. At the end of the video, he says something. I don't know what he says.

[01:32:13] But, you know, sometimes I come here and I see her. She knows who I am. Oh, I'm sorry. And sometimes she doesn't. It's sad, really, when you think about it. And he gets up and he walks off. And then there was one where Steve Perry had just done Oh Sherry. He was doing Foolish Heart, right? Oh Sherry. So he does Foolish Heart. He stops. The video ends. He says, he walks around the corner. There's Journey. He says, all right, guys, let's go make our record. And they walk away.

[01:32:42] And that's the last time we saw Journey with Steve Perry. Oh, geez. It really was meta. It was biographical. Yeah. I remember when Kiss showed up in Unmasked. Oh, God. You had to bring that up. We realized they should have stayed that way. I remember they did the interview that night. J.J. Jackson was interviewing him.

[01:33:06] And he says, you know, now ladies and gentlemen, the members of Kiss, Paul Stanley, Gene Simmons, Eric Carr, Vinnie Vincent, right? And they asked Gene Simmons, they go, how's it feel like makeup? Oh, it feels good. Oh, my God. I can remember Anthrax being on the house.

[01:33:30] And Anthrax was hilarious because they said, they said, Corey Glover this week, lead singer of Living Color is leaving the band and joining King Crimson. So now they'll be known as Crimson and Glover. Yeah. Wow. That's pretty funny. That brings us something else. A celebrity meltdown or like Mariah Carey, I think was on MTV. A celebrity meltdown.

[01:33:55] Yeah, she had like kind of a weird thing happen. I think it was during when she was making that movie. Glitter. Oh, my God, you had to bring that up. I remember. I saw that when that premiered on VH1. I was like, was it that Britney Spears? Is this? No, that was that was Crossroads. But oh, OK, that was MTV. But like, I'll remember when that. Yeah, but that that premieres. And this is years before we had a Riff Tracks, like by seven years.

[01:34:23] I'm like, oh, Lord, you don't ever call this a movie. You can call it whatever you want, but do not call it a movie. I wonder if they've ever taken it on the audio version. Well, Drew Carey had the best thing he said. Jesus, if they want to bomb Iraq, they should just fly a plane over with glitter. I'm going to have a movie. I'm going to have a movie. Now, going back to the. I bet I remember that.

[01:34:49] MTV also had Unplugged, which was more in the 90s. But still, I consider that that was an apex. They would release VHS copies of it. Yeah. And album copies. Yeah, you had bands like Nirvana, Kiss, Duran Duran. And they were, they were, yeah, they were, they were showing that they actually had musical chops. Yeah. It was just overproduced that they actually had.

[01:35:16] And I remember seeing Duran Duran doing an acoustic version of one of my favorite songs of theirs. It's called Serious. And you got to see Warren Cucurillo playing. Were they more serious than Stevie Wonder? Let's get serious. Sorry. I remember being on that show. Here was a bunch of kids in their 20s listening to Tony Bennett. Jay Masix was on. And he was playing guitar for Tony Bennett.

[01:35:43] And then, then I remember just playing, he was playing acoustic guitar. They were doing C. James Infirmary. And then I remember Soul, Soul Asylum was on. Oh my God. And they, they brought out Lulu and Dave Perner and Lulu did To Serve With Love. Man. I can remember Neil Young being on that show. I can remember Tom Petty, Ryan Adams. Tom Petty, Ryan Adams was on that show. Who else? Kenny Wayne Shepard.

[01:36:13] Bob Dylan. Allison James might be my personal favorite. Allison James. Yeah. And that made them even more popular. I recall reading how that appearance was really lucrative. It really helped make more people be aware of them. Bob Dylan did the best. Bob Dylan kind of rebirthed his career on that show. Oh, I got a story about Bob Dylan. Do you know who his kid is? Jacob Dylan. Yeah, lead singer. Wallflowers. Wallflowers. Wow. Yeah.

[01:36:42] I know my kid is Jacob and he's in that band. He's from my wife, Sarah. And, you know, after that, I'm going to go on tour. Oh, Susanna. Don't keep practicing. I remember VH1 did something like that, too. And they had Wilco come on. Remember the, you know, the band Wilco came on to play.

[01:37:08] Wilco came on and they brought Roger McGuinn from the birds on. Oh, my God. And they did. They did. So you want to be a rock and roll star and you want to be a rock and roll star. So basically it was Roger Wilco. Roger Wilco. Yes. Briefly tried to replicate that. I'll vaguely remember. It was like, oh, five or six. They had a stupid reality show called who will be the next INXS. Oh, INXS. Because it was after Michael Hutchins. That's what it was. Yeah.

[01:37:38] I'm like, how do you replace someone like that? I love the fact that the Beatles white album, the box set that came out a few years ago. Mm hmm. Or is the extra demos on there, which is basically the white album unplugged. Yeah. I think it was at George Harrison's house and they were just doing acoustic versions of all They were at the house. I love that album anyway, but that's a great listen. Yeah. They, they were, they were at the house.

[01:38:05] And he had, I think, two tape recorders because you can tell they were doing like bounce back and stuff like that. It's got a weird sound. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. And what happened was, is that Lennon had done, Lennon did a song called child of nature, which would become jealous guy off of, uh, imagine. And then I know that Harrison does not guilty acoustically sour milk. See what she was going to do for Jackie Lomax. But he is guilty of charge with being awesome.

[01:38:35] I think John, my attorney is in there too. Yeah. The one that's the first album, John. So. But it's amazing. That's an amazing listen, you know. Yeah. You know what, you know what I find funny when you were talking about directors who, Sam Peckinpah did a Julian Lennon video called. Wow. Much, much too late for goodbyes. Much too late for goodbyes. Yeah. That's the one with a guy in the background who kind of dressed and kind of looked like John that's his. Yeah. Wow.

[01:39:05] You know, I can remember that would have been. 84. Yes. Man. I can remember them doing a video for Elvis's blue suede shoes. I think it was the 50th anniversary of Elvis being born. That was the fun of it too. Like half the time the video would market. It like I would see them even playing at Target still in the two thousands.

[01:39:32] It's like that was the way of marketing the new movie release or the new. Like it would be the single that's promoting an album playing with other videos or I mean, half the time like videos now when I see in the morning hours. They've done it for a while, but they still stick to it like whenever someone's in town, like the concert footage is all like.

[01:39:58] Archive live stuff as well as classic media music videos is like. And now everybody just basically just goes back to the well. They're like, yeah, here's here's the popular video that they're best known for. The one the one video that stands out to me when I was watching 120 minutes was the Pogues Christmas Fairytale of New York. Oh, you guys ever hear that song? The Pogues did this beautiful song. It's one of the best Christmas songs I know.

[01:40:29] Fairytale of New York. Hmm. And it was it was Shane McGowan and Christie McCall. And you have to watch it. It's like it's just it's just just a song about the group when we're done. Yeah, I'll get it for you. I think I've been going through the rock song index book 7800 rock songs. I believe it's in there. Yeah. And it's a it's a good thing. Everybody remembers Christmas and Hollis by Run DMC. Yeah. Well, that's that's a great one.

[01:40:58] You know, that's the only original song on that album. The other ones were all previously done songs. Yeah. Yeah. I saw you were previously done song. I was also thinking that Purple Rain has a heavy. The movie has a heavy. Oh, yeah. I love how when I was doing some just random research, it was totally unrelated to this, but this actually serves this was I would just look at what were the most controversial music videos. And yeah, when Dove's Cry was deemed as too risque.

[01:41:27] I'm like, I mean, you see his chest, but in a bathtub, but you don't come on that. But it's just amazing. People would freak out. Oh, my God. So and so is going to sexualize my teenager and they're going to have premarital sex. It's like we can blame Tipper Gore for that. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[01:41:47] And it's just but all it would take is, you know, this people forget this is back then, even if it was cable and they knew they could get more risque that without Phil someone would call into the headgers. Twisted Sister had two of the funniest videos ever. We're not going to take it. And I want to rock. And you know what? I want to rock. Okay. You know what? I mean, I'm sure those two videos and I and Mark Metcalf talked about it, too. He said that they were doing Wile E. Coyote.

[01:42:15] They wanted to do Wile E. Coyote. They wanted to make the guy who's who's the you know, the Douglas Niedemeyer guy, Wile E. Coyote. Everything he does, he screws up at. He tries to blow him up. He blows himself up. He tries to he does this. If you watch that video, you start laughing, even though the song is it's a great song. We're not going to take it and you know, take it anymore. You know, and then when they did leader of the pack, when they got rid of the makeup.

[01:42:44] Oh, yeah, and they were doing that and they were doing like the shank. D. Coyote was like, yeah, I want we wanted to do this song. We love the Shangri-La song, but it's it's it's the girl getting to all these tussles. You know, she, you know, she falls down the side of a cliff. You know, she gets run over by it's supposed to be funny. They loved Warner Brothers cartoons. And I remember parents go, oh, that's a terrible video. Tells kids to read what you're watching. Why are they coyote me? It's the same thing as watching why the coyote. He's not a sense.

[01:43:14] It's what we're doing. We're doing a while the cator. We're doing a live action cartoon, you know, this Jerry control video on the background is one of the strangest videos. I don't know if you've seen any of that stuff going on, but I can't remember the name of the video. What is it? It's a Jerry Chantrell video. He doesn't know which one I can play. I can back it up and get the title. You can probably YouTube it. It's a weird one. I've got work in the morning.

[01:43:42] So before I cut out, I just wanted to bring up one person that I think doesn't get talked about enough for MTV. And it's Kurt Loader. Yeah. MTV news. Yes. And I got to say, one of the best MTV news things I've ever seen was when they had Crotee robot and Tom Servo on there with Kurt Loader for. Oh, God. Yes. And they would actually make, they would actually have them riffing the MTV news segments like they were doing one for Radiohead.

[01:44:10] And I believe it was Crotee robot who called Tom York, heroin, Martin short. Wow. Kurt, Kurt Loader came along just around the time, like the last of the five original VJs left, wasn't it? Yeah. He's in the sixties too. No, he's just almost eating now. Before you go, did you guys ever see the one documentary, Quiet Riot? Well, now you're here. There's no way back.

[01:44:39] No, I have not. Yeah, it was in 2014. It's on Showtime quite a lot. It was directed by, what's his name? Frankie Benalli's, before his death, he had a B movie actress who was directing the video. And it was a really fun video, but yeah, it got me in the mood just that while I'm watching it, I'm like, I could surely go back for some Quiet Riot now, I guess. Well, you know, that's funny when you talk about Quiet Riot. Quiet Riot, when they first started out, Randy Rhodes was on the guitar.

[01:45:08] He was a guitar player. What a great name. Okay. So, I know. So what a lot of people don't realize is they were, they were basically covering a lot of the small faces stuff. Mm-hmm. So, one of their first songs they ever cover is on a Japanese EP called Ichiku Park, which is the big hit that the small faces had over here. And Kevin Dubrow, it's Kevin Dubrow, and I think... What's up, bro?

[01:45:37] Kevin Dubrow, and Kevin Dubrow was doing Steve Marriott a great service by doing that song. It's a great song to listen to. So you gotta realize, there's more than just Quiet Riot. Quiet Riot basically made Slade popular. Yep. Because of Come On, Feel The Noise and Mama, We're All Crazy Now. Those are two Slade songs. Is that Shanaid O'Connor behind you, Mike? Yeah. My name? She died this year, did she?

[01:46:07] Yep. No, it was a few years ago. I think it was last year. Last year. Yeah, it was a few years ago. And if you want to really date those technically two years now. I was gonna say it'd be an awkward rendezvous in heaven between her and Pope John Paul II. Yeah. Why you tear up my pictures? Why you tear up my pictures? I like Shanaid. I'm gonna take a restaurant.

[01:46:34] I gotta say, the worst thing was the week after when it was Joe Pesci, and he talked about how he would have given her such a smack. And I'm like, wow, we were okay with physical abuse. You're right. We were okay with people being douchebags. He's taking the picture back up. Why not go out to the Beatles for Elnor Rigby? You know, probably anti-Catholic stuff in there, you know? Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. All right, guys. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. You're right. Take care, man. Thank you. Thanks for being on here. Thank you.

[01:47:04] I think we said all we were gonna say. It was just really... I was glad we were able to finally do this. I just knew we were talking about it for a while. And I was like, yeah, I mean... But it's good to look at just innocent times of this as opposed to now where someone does a video and you're like, God, no one said anything? Yeah, that is kind of shitty. Well, I'm gonna say this right now. When you're talking about Kurt Loder, I can remember when Kurt Cobain... We all remember Kurt Cobain dying. Mm-hmm.

[01:47:31] For the next, like, three days, it was like, Kurt Cobain, Nirvana, what happened? What happened? Yeah. I can remember the news breaking when they said, you know, police have found the body of, you know, 27-year-old front man, Kurt Cobain, dead in his... I think it was his garage in his home in Seattle. And what we didn't realize was that he was in a treatment center like three days before that. Mm-hmm. He signed himself out and he went home.

[01:48:00] And, you know, he had overdosed before that in Italy, you know, and they were saying like Nirvana was close to... was just about to break up, you know? Right. And then look what happens. The Foo Fighters come along. Yep. A year later, which is amazing, you know? But, um... I don't mean to be trivial, but is Cobain in the 27 Club? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just like, um... Jonathan Bredis. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:48:30] Yeah, because we have such great people like, uh... like... We got people like, um... Yeah, Shoplin, Jimi Hendrix, and we got the kid from Sequest. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Brian Jones. Uh... Let's see, Brian Jones, Pigpen McKernan. Um... I was trying to think who else is. Um... Robert Johnson's in the 27 Club. Jimi Hendrix. Jimi Hendrix. Jimi Hendrix, Jim... Jim Morrison.

[01:48:59] Um... Oh, did the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame always there on HBO, or are they just the latest one to host it? Uh... They did the big concert in 95. Yeah. Yeah. So... And I can remember that concert. They had the Kinks, the Gin Blossoms. Um... I can remember Iggy Pop coming out with Soul Asylum, doing, uh... Um... Um... Backdoor Man by the doors. And he says, I fuck more women than any...

[01:49:29] And he says, I eat more pussy than any man's ever seen. And everybody went, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, you said that? You know. Um... I can remember Chuck Berry coming out, doing Johnny B. Good. Mm-hmm. Um... I can remember, um... Did Bruce Hornsby doing a tribute for Jerry Garcia? Yes. Or he played... He played something that he played... He went into a I Know You writer. Um... I know you? Cass... Mama Cass was 32.

[01:49:58] Was 32, okay. I don't think he died in the same flat that Harry Nilsson owned that Keith Moon died in as well. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So what you're telling me is that place is all haunted. And the Nilsson died as well. I don't know if he died there too, but yeah. That was kind of massive part of that. Or at the very least, you know, it serves killer ham sandwiches. Yeah. Yeah. And I... I think it... One of the... Who is it?

[01:50:28] The Phillips... That guy. Mama's in the Papa's. She was on... Yo, my God, Freak's podcast. That's a myth about the sandwich. It was in the room, but she didn't show me. Michelle Phillips, yeah. Michelle Phillips. She had basically... What had happened was she was yo-yo dieting, and it put a strain on her heart. And she had just... Was just about to do or she had done the London Palladium, and she was getting rave reviews for it. Yeah.

[01:50:55] But what happened was she like lost like 150 pounds. Nice. She put it on, took it off again, took it off again, and then she like had the massive heart attack. Damn. You know? I got a... Yes, but it's funnier my way. Yeah. It's funny when you say a ham sandwich. Hey, it's like Dennis... It's like Dennis... I believe Dennis Leary said... Dennis Leary said one of the best jokes. I believe Mama Cass said the best one. She said... You know? Wow.

[01:51:24] I got some fun trivia. What do Mama Cass, Lulu, to serve with love, and Steve Martin have in common? Uh, banjos? No. I don't know. Let me see. The old, did you stand up comedy in the 1970s while high on cocaine? The 1970 part is right. Sheikko needed the money. The 1970 part is right.

[01:51:46] Uh, I know I worked with Bradshaw Marks when I was doing this Hollywood Palace. It has to do with Summer Replacement TV show. Oh, they're all the only summer show. The Summer Replacement show. The Summer Replacement show. They're all regulars on Andy Williams Presents Ray Stevens. Oh! Oh, I didn't know that. There's tons of videos. They actually do... Cass and Lulu and Stevens all sing that. They do some really good songs.

[01:52:16] They cover more with Night Roll. It's an underrated show. The comedy was pretty lame, but... And then Steve Martin was starting to be Steve Martin, too. Nice. Yeah, you can YouTube him. So... I worked with Ray Stevens in 1970. Yeah, you probably did. This is when I was doing my tour with my one-man show. And I came out in sanglidia, the tattoo lady. Oh, Lydia, oh, Lydia. I do sing Lydia.

[01:52:46] Lydia the tattoo lady. Groucho Marx, everybody. She did. I do know the guest who showed up and did American Woman on that show as well. So... Oh, uh... Um... The guest... Yeah, the guest who did go on it. Yeah. Is that Lenny Kravitz in the background there? Because now I'm thinking of American Woman. I don't know. I'll send you one song that... Yeah. Oh, this was the light. American Woman.

[01:53:13] Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple, and anywhere else podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening. It's a Jacked Up Review Show.