Q&A with Graphic Designer-Illustrator Pierre Bernard Jr. (Conan)

[00:00:06] It's a JackedUp Review Show. JackedUpReviewShow, JackedUpReviewShow.

[00:00:22] It's a JackedUp Review Show. JackedUpReviewShow. JackedUpReviewShow.

[00:00:46] I just figured, you know,

[00:00:48] But let's get in, you know, I used to do art myself.

[00:00:53] So I love picking the brains of people who have gone from sketching

[00:00:58] to computer animation to all other sorts of things

[00:01:02] and getting some advice from them and entertainers.

[00:01:05] We admire on how to keep this work steady.

[00:01:08] You know?

[00:01:08] Oh, not a problem.

[00:01:10] Well, it's your show.

[00:01:11] You start leading.

[00:01:13] How you want this to go.

[00:01:16] But it was so funny.

[00:01:18] I was just like, who sent this?

[00:01:19] Oh, pervert.

[00:01:21] I figured you needed to see what I'm talking about if we get around

[00:01:25] to talking about, oh, I'm probably supposed to.

[00:01:28] But that was beyond curious of you.

[00:01:30] Did it's too time to kind of welcome into the show.

[00:01:33] We have any time.

[00:01:35] Anytime we got graphics, arts, designer and former designer

[00:01:39] for both Letterman and Conan, we have Perry Bernard Jr.

[00:01:44] Thank you.

[00:01:45] Thank you.

[00:01:46] It's been a minute, my dude.

[00:01:47] I think the last time I saw you in Conan,

[00:01:50] you were in a Harlem world trotterskit during the TBS era

[00:01:54] and then I was like, hey, we're here to go.

[00:01:57] Yeah, actually, I think if I'm right,

[00:02:00] it could be wrong because I have a spotty memory at times.

[00:02:04] But if I'm correct, the last bit I did on Conan

[00:02:08] was as I think Michael Jordan

[00:02:12] and they were in the spruce shredder

[00:02:15] and that was it.

[00:02:17] You know, we can go into that someday

[00:02:21] what was being what was going on there

[00:02:24] at least my impression of what was done that day.

[00:02:27] But that day, the fact that I was shredded,

[00:02:31] I felt had a lot of meaning because I never appeared

[00:02:35] on the show after that.

[00:02:37] I don't know why

[00:02:39] and I don't think this is the right place

[00:02:41] to start speculating but yeah,

[00:02:44] that's the last memory I have of being a part of that show.

[00:02:48] And then I think the rest of the time

[00:02:50] I spent working there but that was about it.

[00:02:55] I mean, they were going to Comic Con, leaving me behind.

[00:02:58] I was the one who told these folks about Comic Con

[00:03:01] and the whole comic stuff

[00:03:04] and they were going to Comic Con, leaving me in Burbank.

[00:03:08] I mean, that hurt the first couple of times

[00:03:11] but after a while I just thought, you know,

[00:03:13] this is what it is.

[00:03:15] I don't understand why it's being done.

[00:03:19] I have thoughts on it but I thought, you know,

[00:03:23] that's, I just want to do the job.

[00:03:25] You know, I love what I do.

[00:03:27] I'm a graphics person

[00:03:29] when it push comes the show.

[00:03:31] I'm a graphic artist.

[00:03:33] That's what I trained to do.

[00:03:34] I went to art and design in New York.

[00:03:36] Yes. I saw you were a graduate of

[00:03:40] a person's school of design.

[00:03:42] Yeah, and I was.

[00:03:44] Yeah, so art has always been my thing.

[00:03:46] I mean, when everyone was going out having fun,

[00:03:50] I was creating.

[00:03:52] I love creating.

[00:03:53] I mean, that's my biggest passion.

[00:03:56] If I am not able to create, I will lose my mind.

[00:04:00] So I keep saying that way.

[00:04:02] You know, I don't have any weird habits

[00:04:06] like doing drugs or smoking or drinking.

[00:04:10] It's creating.

[00:04:11] I just sit and ideas come to mind

[00:04:14] and I gotta put them on paper.

[00:04:16] So that's my world.

[00:04:19] So, you know, when I was being left behind,

[00:04:22] I guess maybe, I don't know what was going on in their mind,

[00:04:25] but it wasn't, you know, aside from being upset

[00:04:28] that I wasn't going to Comic Con,

[00:04:31] I just wasn't the office creating.

[00:04:33] I was creating artwork.

[00:04:35] I think during that period, now I can say

[00:04:38] because I don't work for them.

[00:04:39] So I don't care.

[00:04:40] But during that period when they left me behind

[00:04:43] the other people they left behind,

[00:04:46] I would bring a ton of gel pens

[00:04:49] because my love for gel pens had just started.

[00:04:53] And I started seeing a lot of these portraits with circles.

[00:04:57] You probably seen them on Facebook,

[00:04:59] portraits of people and anime characters.

[00:05:02] And I saw.

[00:05:04] Yeah, that's when I started that,

[00:05:07] I remembered one comic Con weekend

[00:05:10] where I was in the office left behind.

[00:05:15] And I was working on this very first series,

[00:05:18] which was of Iron Man.

[00:05:19] And I did five different Iron Man throughout the ages

[00:05:24] from the gray suit all the way to what was current.

[00:05:27] At that point, I think there was 19, 2015 or 2014.

[00:05:32] I remember writing a pen.

[00:05:34] Yeah, it was fun.

[00:05:35] And that was the beginning of the circle stuff.

[00:05:39] From that point, I started doing portraits of people I knew

[00:05:42] and other anime characters and other comic characters

[00:05:47] and musicians.

[00:05:48] And I was just having a ball with that stuff.

[00:05:51] And really, the circle stuff started back in New York.

[00:05:56] It was a way of passing time when I was on the phone,

[00:06:01] which I had not a big phone person.

[00:06:04] But when I would be on the phone and people are talking

[00:06:06] and they're talking, take out a pen and scribble on paper.

[00:06:10] And one day I happened to be doing circles on the page.

[00:06:14] When I got home, I'm looking at this and I'm going,

[00:06:18] there's something here.

[00:06:19] I don't know what it is.

[00:06:20] But there's something here.

[00:06:22] And from that point forward, I kept doing circles.

[00:06:26] You would see them appear in different things I did back in New York.

[00:06:30] And I think I even did a few things.

[00:06:32] I was during the age circles.

[00:06:36] I was during the 80s.

[00:06:37] Yeah, yeah, this was about, no, not 80s.

[00:06:40] This was in the 90s.

[00:06:42] Oh, okay.

[00:06:42] What is so when you were actually finally going to say,

[00:06:45] I've worked in a Conan.

[00:06:46] So, yeah, I would do it sporadically.

[00:06:48] And once I moved out here,

[00:06:51] I started attending these work or these drawing groups.

[00:06:56] They're a drink and draw.

[00:06:57] I don't know if you have them out your way where a bunch of artists

[00:07:00] just get together at a bar and they just draw a...

[00:07:03] Kind of.

[00:07:05] Mainly, they just host art shows at different areas.

[00:07:11] But you're not wrong.

[00:07:14] It isn't exclusive in every state, like I say.

[00:07:17] But it is when you see it, when you know what you see it,

[00:07:21] you know it.

[00:07:22] Like you know, it's like, oh, it's a free for all.

[00:07:27] Literally your art here, get comments.

[00:07:29] It's better than having an actual art show

[00:07:32] because people are kind of...

[00:07:34] If they're scouting talent, that's a good way to be seen

[00:07:37] versus begging them, hey, can you?

[00:07:41] Combine by my artwork, even though you clearly have no interest,

[00:07:44] you know, it's more fluent, like a better word.

[00:07:50] I agree.

[00:07:51] For me, I wasn't really going there so much for looking

[00:07:55] for work more than just hanging out.

[00:07:59] And there was one artist.

[00:08:00] I don't remember her name right off hand on Flić, you know,

[00:08:04] but she met...

[00:08:05] She looked over at the sketch I was doing at the time

[00:08:08] and she asked me, why do you always work in circles?

[00:08:11] Tell, I don't know why, but I know at some point

[00:08:14] I'll figure it out.

[00:08:16] Why I'm attracted to them.

[00:08:17] I'm just...

[00:08:18] My life's kind of going in circles as it is.

[00:08:22] But you know, three years ago,

[00:08:23] it finally came together.

[00:08:25] I started creating these patterns.

[00:08:28] These seamless patterns.

[00:08:29] Because I've always had an interest

[00:08:30] in fabric design as well.

[00:08:33] And I started doing these seamless patterns using circles.

[00:08:36] And it all came together.

[00:08:38] I created some really cool patterns.

[00:08:39] Someone fortunately, I can't never really put out there

[00:08:44] other than in pieces.

[00:08:45] For example, the Justice League.

[00:08:48] I'm a huge fan of the Justice League unlimited

[00:08:51] and I get started doing portraits

[00:08:53] of the different characters.

[00:08:55] You've probably seen them on Facebook as well.

[00:08:57] Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman,

[00:08:59] James Latter and the Flash individual portraits.

[00:09:03] Those images are actually...

[00:09:05] I started them as pen and inks.

[00:09:07] Then I read them as vector.

[00:09:11] So the idea is that I wanna have the entire Justice League

[00:09:15] unlimited team to print on a huge blanket.

[00:09:19] And I recreated the logo as well,

[00:09:21] the original Justice League logo, not the...

[00:09:24] The old school logo from the 60s.

[00:09:27] I recreated that logo as well, all in circles.

[00:09:30] It looks insane.

[00:09:32] But it's kind of stuff I can't really put out there

[00:09:35] because it's not my property to use that way.

[00:09:40] So it's kind of sucks and no one will ever see that stuff.

[00:09:46] So yeah, the circles...

[00:09:48] I did the circles then I started doing huge campuses,

[00:09:51] doing COVID with the circles.

[00:09:54] And now I've found my way going into these books

[00:09:58] doing puzzle books.

[00:10:01] Hey, so what, why did you think you were open to that kind of transition?

[00:10:09] Why do I think I was open to it?

[00:10:12] There's some people don't like mixing up their different art styles.

[00:10:17] And others are open to it as long as they get the creative freedom.

[00:10:21] I think for me, the way it works,

[00:10:24] it's whatever feels good.

[00:10:27] I remember a while back, I was doing these YouTube videos

[00:10:32] with a couple of co-workers.

[00:10:34] This was around the transition time, our show

[00:10:38] when we had just came to LA,

[00:10:43] we lost it tonight's show and there was that window

[00:10:47] of time where we weren't sure what's happening with us

[00:10:51] then we got the Conan show on TBS.

[00:10:54] But there was that little window where a handful of us

[00:10:58] were going around, told them I wanted to do some videos.

[00:11:03] And the couple of them were excited about it said,

[00:11:06] yeah, that's a great idea.

[00:11:08] Let's shoot some stuff around the thing

[00:11:10] and you could kind of do that recline a rage thing.

[00:11:13] And I said, we'll do it as long as it's fun.

[00:11:18] Mom and it's no longer fun.

[00:11:19] I don't want to be part of it.

[00:11:21] And I think that's my approach as well.

[00:11:23] As long as the one I'm creating is fun,

[00:11:27] I'm going to dive into it.

[00:11:30] And if it takes me into a direction that's different

[00:11:35] or odd or unrelated, I will go with it

[00:11:39] as long as it's fun.

[00:11:40] If it's not going to be fun,

[00:11:42] if I'm not interested,

[00:11:43] or it's not catching my attention,

[00:11:46] I'm not afraid of momentum.

[00:11:48] There's no, I'm not worth it.

[00:11:50] I mean, I think to the third degree,

[00:11:53] that's what happened when I worked at Conan in New York.

[00:11:58] When I started that job,

[00:12:01] I was working at the time at potential securities part time.

[00:12:06] Oh, wow.

[00:12:07] Yeah, doing business graphics.

[00:12:09] And every day going to work,

[00:12:11] I worked at the C-port in New York

[00:12:14] at potential securities.

[00:12:16] I would wear suit and tie.

[00:12:18] I mean, that's how I came into the office.

[00:12:24] It's a financial company.

[00:12:26] So the bulk of that company

[00:12:28] is how people are presenting themselves.

[00:12:31] Are you suits, men are wearing suits?

[00:12:34] Everyone, you know,

[00:12:35] at the end of the night,

[00:12:36] you're having to go into Goofall mode

[00:12:38] and you're like, oh, well,

[00:12:40] well, the point, no, the point I'm going at

[00:12:43] is that when I was hired into that art department,

[00:12:46] I came in.

[00:12:48] There were a couple of people who came to work dressed well,

[00:12:54] and then there were a couple of artists came in.

[00:12:57] They were wearing jeans.

[00:12:58] You know, the shirt opened.

[00:13:00] They were casual.

[00:13:02] They weren't nothing wrong with that.

[00:13:03] But I just fell.

[00:13:05] I'm getting to that environment as an artist.

[00:13:11] And I don't know if you've encountered this,

[00:13:13] you said you're an artist.

[00:13:15] Well, I, I, I, I, I lost the ability

[00:13:18] but I, you don't lose it.

[00:13:21] Yes, I can, okay, so you're right.

[00:13:24] I can store you board

[00:13:25] but I can't draw near as good as I used to

[00:13:28] when I was growing up where I was doing

[00:13:29] like caricatures of popular Saturday morning cartoons.

[00:13:34] But I'm willing to bed if you pick up a pen,

[00:13:38] it'll take you a couple of days.

[00:13:41] I'm pretty bad.

[00:13:43] I don't know if it's just the interest isn't there

[00:13:46] or I, but I put it in the different elements.

[00:13:49] Like for instance, I love to edit this podcast

[00:13:51] and right.

[00:13:53] Make the graphic promo and everything.

[00:13:56] But then I would say, I look at art skills

[00:13:59] like a superpower.

[00:14:01] No.

[00:14:03] Doesn't go away, man.

[00:14:04] You need to exercise it, but it doesn't go away.

[00:14:07] Your skills are there.

[00:14:08] You need to the moment you allow yourself to exercise it.

[00:14:12] You'll be amazed.

[00:14:13] You'll be an X man.

[00:14:15] Very super.

[00:14:17] I'm going back on the other side.

[00:14:19] I was mentioning before before I forget my trip,

[00:14:23] it's a trail of thought.

[00:14:25] I started going to work every day with the student tie

[00:14:30] and I started going to potential with the student tie.

[00:14:35] The people who were coming in casually, casual,

[00:14:38] started noticing that and they noticed something as well

[00:14:42] that the staff started treating me different

[00:14:46] than how they treated them.

[00:14:48] There was a level of professionalism

[00:14:50] that came my way, that wasn't coming their way.

[00:14:54] It's like, it didn't take a long

[00:14:55] for them to figure it out and before you knew it,

[00:14:57] that entire department started coming into work

[00:15:00] with ties on the neck and presenting themselves.

[00:15:04] That's one of you or be on your level.

[00:15:08] Exactly.

[00:15:10] I felt good about that, that my present created that,

[00:15:16] but the reason I did that was because

[00:15:20] when I first started, we're doing graphics.

[00:15:23] I started out of the storyboard,

[00:15:25] and storyboard cops in the office,

[00:15:28] prior to that, I used to do comic lettering.

[00:15:31] But I noticed as artists, we're not respected much.

[00:15:34] No.

[00:15:35] You companies know that we love what we do

[00:15:39] and they don't look at us as professionals.

[00:15:42] They look at us as a bunch of people

[00:15:43] or having fun doing their hobbies.

[00:15:46] I think how you present yourself to these folks

[00:15:49] when you go into a job, it's very important, very relevant,

[00:15:54] especially if you're new.

[00:15:56] I think, you know, I think you're right.

[00:15:58] I think a lot of people assume,

[00:16:00] hey, you're an entertainer,

[00:16:01] therefore you're having too much fun.

[00:16:03] I got a gate key, but I got a bus you're around

[00:16:06] and it's like, well, when you kill any amount of fun,

[00:16:11] you're not going to get any interest in doing the job well.

[00:16:16] Like, you know, there's a difference between

[00:16:18] I'm having fun doing what I'm doing versus

[00:16:20] I've been slacking off and completely off topic

[00:16:23] and procrastinating on the job at hand.

[00:16:26] Exactly.

[00:16:27] And they seem to think because you're laughing

[00:16:29] and enjoying yourself in 20 minutes, 40 minutes,

[00:16:32] oh, you're off topic is like now just joking to set the mood

[00:16:38] while I set up this new graphic art work

[00:16:41] and get all the pencils, stencils.

[00:16:46] You know?

[00:16:47] To mention, they take that as an opportunity to underpay you.

[00:16:51] Bingo.

[00:16:52] So anyway, the long story where I'm going with this,

[00:16:56] and then they wonder why it's not good because you didn't pay me

[00:16:59] that out of the words.

[00:17:02] So when I started with Conan, going back to Conan,

[00:17:06] it was working with Conan part-time and still working at

[00:17:09] credential.

[00:17:11] So the people at credential knew me a certain way

[00:17:14] and at Conan, one day someone approached me.

[00:17:19] I want to, I don't remember if it was a writer who approached me on this,

[00:17:23] but they wanted me to be in a bit at the time.

[00:17:25] And up to that point, I was, they had me in an office on the second floor at NBC

[00:17:34] and it was an office way away from the staff because the staff was somewhere

[00:17:38] at the ninth of the tenth floor.

[00:17:40] I had no contact with anyone because my way of functioning was

[00:17:46] I wanted to be seen as a professional.

[00:17:48] I come in, do my work.

[00:17:50] I don't gossip with people.

[00:17:51] I don't get it out.

[00:17:53] Yeah, I tell the woman who hired me, the lead artist,

[00:17:57] this is who I am.

[00:17:58] I am just focused because they had just come off of the whole

[00:18:02] letterman, the buckle in nonsense and stuff.

[00:18:06] So I was focused.

[00:18:07] I came in, I said, I'm gonna do my job.

[00:18:10] I don't get caught up in your politics here.

[00:18:13] Do my job go home.

[00:18:15] So one day someone approached me by doing a comedy bit on the show.

[00:18:20] And first, I wasn't sure about it.

[00:18:24] Then they explained it to me and then my brain was like, oh God,

[00:18:27] I don't know if I want to do this.

[00:18:30] Basically, I wanted me to hold one of these cases for watches

[00:18:35] and dress up in a jumpsuit instead on the corner of Rocketfellah Center for a series.

[00:18:41] And I'm like, thinking, I don't want to do that.

[00:18:43] There go type things. That's crazy.

[00:18:45] The people I work with have credentialed.

[00:18:48] I'm gonna see that. I don't want to be seen that way.

[00:18:51] But then I don't know what it was.

[00:18:55] I don't remember if it took a little while or what,

[00:18:57] but somewhere in the back of my head, something said,

[00:19:01] you know what, Pierre, get out of your comfort zone.

[00:19:04] Do it.

[00:19:05] Do it challenge.

[00:19:06] Yeah, just do it.

[00:19:08] Just do it.

[00:19:09] Have a laugh of you at yourself.

[00:19:11] Just do it.

[00:19:12] And I did it.

[00:19:13] And before you know it, a couple of other things came up

[00:19:16] and it did a couple of other things.

[00:19:18] And lo and behold, you know, with that all led.

[00:19:21] And as it was in a year or two,

[00:19:23] there would be a kind of rage came up.

[00:19:24] That and my yes, great.

[00:19:26] Look back on all of this and I'm thinking,

[00:19:29] it was all probably because of that one moment in time.

[00:19:33] Here I was thinking, I was invisible to everyone

[00:19:37] because I was just keeping to myself in my work zone.

[00:19:42] But yet, I guess Conan and the writers

[00:19:45] knew of my existence, I guess because they must have

[00:19:49] asked who's doing that work.

[00:19:52] And the other people too, like Jimmy Vino and you know,

[00:19:57] Aaron Leard from the close gamer segment.

[00:20:00] So every month in Darria, he wasn't there.

[00:20:03] Yeah, I'm talking about at the beginning first year.

[00:20:07] Yeah, I was there at the very beginning with that issue.

[00:20:10] So I was a, I had not known people knew of me working in there.

[00:20:18] I was on the impression I was just doing work down there and no one knew

[00:20:23] I existed outside of a head writer.

[00:20:27] I had artists, I mean, leader of it.

[00:20:30] And they knew of me somehow and they knew enough,

[00:20:34] someone knew enough to come down and present this idea to me and ask me to do

[00:20:40] it. And I'm so glad in hindsight that I had the ability in my head to say,

[00:20:47] yeah, you know, it was all yes because I know a lot of my co-workers

[00:20:54] over the years were asked to do different bits and a number of them

[00:21:00] turned things down. You know, I happened to be, yeah, when mine's came up and

[00:21:07] took me where took me. I mean, yeah, that's where I mainly remember.

[00:21:11] Yeah, you were in the skits even though they said, hey, but he's also the graphic art designer.

[00:21:16] I'm like, so I look back on that and so I guess to to to sandwich all of this

[00:21:25] when I was saying earlier about having fun, it's important to me every year asking how,

[00:21:31] how do I transition from one art thing to another and what's going on there? It's all about having fun.

[00:21:40] If I'm not having fun, I'm not going to do it. If I'm having fun and it's seen

[00:21:46] and doing something different seems like it would be a challenge. And if my

[00:21:52] taken me out of my comfort zone a little but still have fun with it, I'm going to do it.

[00:21:57] You know, I'm not going to do anything crazy or something that's offensive, but my goal is always

[00:22:05] to have fun in my career. That to me is important because in the end, God knows and I will say

[00:22:12] this, for every employer or a employer or future employer I have. I know you all will always

[00:22:19] underpay me. I feel I should have at least from your job is fun. I should be able to enjoy that

[00:22:29] job. It shouldn't be a misery to do that job because if it's a misery, maybe I shouldn't be doing

[00:22:34] it even though I might need money. That's my thinking and I know a lot of people will hear that

[00:22:42] and go, well, they're a times you don't have the choice. Just have to suck it up and do the job

[00:22:47] and I agree, I get that. But I got to find a way to put a number on it after a while.

[00:22:55] Because if you don't, you're going to lose your mind. You're going to go crazy.

[00:23:03] Yeah, that's a good point. No, that's a good point because they kind of had everyone do all kinds

[00:23:09] of things and after a while, sometimes you're just like, I don't really want to wear that many

[00:23:14] ads. All together. Again, you already touched on some great points on, in fact, the answer

[00:23:29] pretty much most of my questions before we even start with this. You were up to the challenge

[00:23:34] and then at this after a while I was like, well, now I want to do this and now I don't want

[00:23:38] to do that so how about I do that? This way, I'm giving it. So this was very inspiring to me

[00:23:46] because I have just in recent years done therapy. Just good things, just sudden goals and everything,

[00:23:54] seeing why I was angry at stuff that's not worth being angry about. But one thing, I think everyone

[00:24:00] has seen in every therapy session is the assertive communication and you kind of did that here

[00:24:07] where, yeah, I can't give you this but I can give you that. So that's technically a win for both

[00:24:13] you and me. So why do you think it's so hard though after a while to just kind of compromise when

[00:24:22] like to say, it's not, you know, I'm getting what is worth your time in your money but at the same

[00:24:30] time, you kind of want to do this and at the same time you're kind of still getting a few notes that

[00:24:34] aren't to your liking. What do you think every artist wants to un-written rule that every artist should

[00:24:40] live by? The unwritten rule every artist should live by. I think there would be two. One is

[00:24:52] personal which goes back to what you should what you're doing should be fun if you're not having fun

[00:24:58] with it, don't do it. The other one should be in the business world give the people what they want.

[00:25:07] If you're working for an employer and they need something or they want something,

[00:25:13] you have to rise up to the occasion and give it to them. There are times where their

[00:25:20] design aesthetics are not up to par and you might try to correct them with guide them gently

[00:25:30] in the right direction but which comes to shove you have to learn to drop your ego and give them

[00:25:39] what they want or close to what they want because quite frankly they're paying for it. They're

[00:25:45] not paying you, no. Now I know this might sound like a contradiction but it's not. They're not

[00:25:51] paying you to have fun. They're paying you to give them a product. They have a vision at just like

[00:25:59] you would have a vision with what you create. You would not like someone talking in and re-editing your

[00:26:05] vision. Your employer is hiring you because they have a vision. You have to work within

[00:26:13] that parameter and try to give them to the best of your ability. Their vision. Have fun with it.

[00:26:22] You're a fun creative way to have fun with it but in the end give them what they want. That's

[00:26:29] I think those are the two things I would say, the two rules. Lovely. So you studied all kinds

[00:26:41] of graphic art design and Adobe and given over talking 90s versus today where

[00:26:48] my father can speak to this because he's done marketing design and he knows a

[00:26:53] lot how you had to keep updating your portfolio and show various clients. Hey, you might be able

[00:27:00] to do this for less or do this even on your own like create your own website. You know,

[00:27:07] nowadays you can just go to you know, wax or whatever in foam. There's a website in two minutes but

[00:27:17] what do you think artists are mainly having to struggle to illustrate no pun that hey,

[00:27:26] you can't do this on your own like you do legit need at least like a consultancy from me.

[00:27:35] You can try and aside step this and take a shortcut but it's just going to be a good one.

[00:27:41] Are you talking about from the clients perspective? Yeah, yeah, you selling yourself the

[00:27:47] clients is showing hey, you might know about this and no other people who can do this but it's

[00:27:53] just going to look cheap and unfinished. You know, you're real.

[00:27:59] That's I think I follow where what you're asking and that falls along an area where it's

[00:28:11] gray and you know, I would have an idea. I want to do these books. I don't know how to put this

[00:28:23] book together. I need help but I have a clear vision on what I want. What you're saying is

[00:28:29] I'm sitting there with all sorts of software trying to put this thing together and you're as

[00:28:37] the professional approaches me and says, well that doesn't look that good. Right. Let me get

[00:28:44] you shouldn't be doing it. I on the other hand have the degree and I should be doing it. Yeah,

[00:28:53] you have the credentials. Yeah, so I think the part that might have worked back in

[00:29:02] I can say that probably worked at the beginning of the 1900s, always straight through

[00:29:15] 1980s and maybe mid-90s but because of the way technology is developing now,

[00:29:23] I think us as creatives we don't have a lot of who and I know I'm going to be hated for this one

[00:29:30] but we don't have a lot of what I don't even know how to phrase what I'm about to say.

[00:29:41] Would you say you're not a lot of standing to argue that point? The reason being AI is about to change

[00:29:50] every time it's awful. It's a bad thing and it's about to change things and going... I felt

[00:30:00] some summers were getting annoyed at having to wait for union disputes and everything. I even got

[00:30:08] on a panel and I got pretty annoyed. We were all kind of unanimous saying even if it were to be

[00:30:14] a good thing, it's ultimately a bad thing because it's not ready for use. It's going to kill jobs

[00:30:19] and there was one guy who was so out of it and it's pretty bad.

[00:30:28] It's one of those things where I'm fascinated with it and it's interesting but on the other hand

[00:30:35] I can see how it's going to fundamentally change our society and to literally change all

[00:30:43] flux of businesses. I can see it from the graphic end because this is what I do and I can see how

[00:30:50] it's going to affect your life. You're looking ahead as opposed to waiting for over saturation of

[00:30:55] something or for a doll who go downhill. You're looking at and you've seen stuff. We have

[00:31:00] seen stuff like this before so... I mean, what you call... I mean, the stuntmen thought their jobs were

[00:31:08] going to go compute when people were using computer graphics. I mean, make-up artists, same kind of thing

[00:31:15] but more than just entertainment. I mean, what we hit it at on websites earlier, people thought

[00:31:22] hey, I can just have a computer, you know, create that for me instead of hiring five people

[00:31:30] or two of the guys. I don't know if you've seen the video yet. I saw it on a YouTube channel

[00:31:38] commercial for armor or something. It's a line of clothing, men clothing. Yeah, yeah.

[00:31:45] Armor clothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a black and white commercial and at the time the people who are

[00:31:51] airing it were saying I'm looking at this video on it. It's well done and I'm thinking to myself

[00:31:57] what is the angle? What's wrong with it? Are they going to complain because it's black and white?

[00:32:02] What was the problem? The problem to them is that the entire thing was done with AI.

[00:32:10] Everything. Every shot in that video was AI. I'm not saying that. But I have seen somewhere

[00:32:16] at the moment they said that, and I really looked at it and I'm like thinking and they said

[00:32:23] it that it was as if they were reading my mind. I'm thinking, God, aren't your people

[00:32:28] were not employed to do this commercial? If this becomes a trend, there it's going to be an unemployment

[00:32:36] here in California on the on the scale we've never seen before. And you're in California.

[00:32:43] Yeah. When people went Uber came along and taxi drivers started losing job. They they

[00:32:51] haven't seen job loss yet. I think last year that strike was a problem because yeah you want

[00:32:58] more money but you're doing on the heel of a technology that's in its infancy and it's only

[00:33:06] going to get better. It's not going to get worse. You know, I'm of the belief the day AI learns to

[00:33:18] talk about the employer. We were talking about where the money is. And you come along and tell that

[00:33:25] employer, well you shouldn't be doing that. I'm the pro. Let me handle it. Yeah. AI is going to get

[00:33:31] to that place where you're not going to be able to give them that argument because they're going

[00:33:36] to put a plug in a couple of prompts and get exactly what they want on a level and time frame

[00:33:44] faster and possibly better than what you can give them. And you're not going to have any

[00:33:51] place to debate. You know, I think they can attempt to slow this down but in the long run they can't

[00:34:01] and on the other side this is where I tell you I have mixed feelings. The other hand I want

[00:34:09] this to happen. I want this evolution to happen because and I don't get into politics but

[00:34:16] I feel media right now is in the control of a few. And concern is that what I'm seeing is that a

[00:34:27] lot of media is being possibly injected with politics. Tantar. Yeah. And what I'm seeing on top of that

[00:34:37] and I think the studios are seeing the problem. They're seeing the kickback, the pushback from

[00:34:45] the individuals who are complaining about this stuff. The studios are under the mentality that

[00:34:51] if they keep false feeding you something that you don't want eventually you're going to just give in.

[00:34:58] And now we have AI entering the picture and I've seen these shorts as Sora's one AI that came

[00:35:06] and it's talking about creating videos and stuff. And I had a debate with a good

[00:35:12] friend of mine about this. He's telling me how these things are not really creating anything

[00:35:17] original. They're just sourcing other things and putting them mission-mashing and creating.

[00:35:24] And I agree that's what's happening now but 10 years later, 20 years out, this thing might have

[00:35:31] the ability to actually create something. And it may not take that long. What I'm excited about

[00:35:39] is the fact that AI is now potentially putting creativity in their hands of the average individual.

[00:35:50] I don't know about you but sometimes when I'm on YouTube, I like to look up random things

[00:35:55] and random things come up on my screen. I saw an animation, a fan animation of the Hulk versus

[00:36:03] Superman. That would never exist in reality but someone to create that a couple of years ago

[00:36:09] and it looks incredible. The Hulk versus Superman. It's incredible and it's like five minutes.

[00:36:16] I would pay to see that movie. It's insane. Another fan thing that I saw that blew my mind was

[00:36:26] samurai Shappler. Someone did a life thing on that. I was like, oh these smokes. This is

[00:36:33] incredible. If I had the money, I would give these folks money and let them create episodes knowing

[00:36:42] that they'll never air. Just hand them out at Comic Cotton to give them to other fans. I mean,

[00:36:48] it's seeing that kind of level of dedication going on before AI. My thinking is now AI is in

[00:36:56] the mix. Those same people will have this available to them. I can't wait to see what they're

[00:37:03] going to do. You know, as excited as we might be about Deadpool and Wolverine next month,

[00:37:09] imagine these folks creating their own Deadpool Wolverine movie. I mean, my mind. No, this

[00:37:19] why I like your geeky takes because you kind of, that's why it was awesome. It was geeky rage

[00:37:26] but you were putting it in a way where everyone could understand it even if they don't follow this

[00:37:32] kind of stuff. You have to make sense to everybody and I'm glad that you brought up the whole

[00:37:36] thing because we're kind of getting a mixture that too, where it is always funny how,

[00:37:42] wait, we say what we get complaints from people saying, don't politicize this and then

[00:37:47] ironically some of those guys are the same ones politicizing something. It's good. You didn't

[00:37:52] start the fire but you did. You kind of did. Now you just left, you left the oven on.

[00:37:57] I mean, that's not to stay on this too much because I don't want to create a problem for your

[00:38:05] channel but you're fine. This is what we're taking in Texas. You know, the other two days ago

[00:38:11] I was sitting there and watching Star Wars again because all this new stuff that's coming out,

[00:38:18] I'm like, there was a post a couple about a month ago of a light saber bleeding.

[00:38:25] I'm like, what the, what the f is this? But what is that? Now, you know, now I've started

[00:38:31] watching some channels and they're reviewing the stuff and I'm like, my God, this is not

[00:38:36] Star Wars. What the, what the hell are you guys airing this? So I wanted to be watching the movie

[00:38:42] to see maybe I forgot, you know, it was a while for a minute since I saw the original movie

[00:38:49] every other poster or trailer seems to be loved on finished but then when you see a movie and

[00:38:54] you feel like it's also unfinished, then it's even more confusing. You're like, what's

[00:38:59] where's the money going? Yeah, so I set down and I watched the movie and I, and I watched it and

[00:39:08] remember seeing the clips that people are showing on their online stuff where they're reviewing

[00:39:13] what's currently airing and the original movie, I realized there's a loss of soul going on

[00:39:21] in filmmaking. People literally have forgotten how to make good movies. They've got the reason

[00:39:29] I would exist. They're so busy putting all sorts of other things into movies nowadays that they

[00:39:38] forgot the soul reason movies existed was for entertainment. It had nothing to do with anything

[00:39:44] other than entertainment. Even before we had cartoons that were since the toy commercials,

[00:39:49] it seems like I mean, even when movies were hand cranked and you had the stills going around

[00:39:56] in the machine, it was all about just entertaining. You saw a woman dancing or cowboy swing and

[00:40:03] it was for entertainment. It wasn't about politics. It wasn't about anything. It wasn't,

[00:40:08] it was simply entertainment and I think movies nowadays has lost the ability to be entertaining.

[00:40:15] And this is why I'm so excited about AI because I'm, again, my thinking is all these creative

[00:40:22] folks that I see posting these YouTube shorts online, they're going to have this amazing

[00:40:28] software now to create stuff and I know the studios are going to lose their mind. They're

[00:40:36] going to lose it. They're going to do all sorts of things to try to block it from, what you call

[00:40:42] Adobe is taking the first step. You probably haven't heard Adobe wants to write to search your

[00:40:50] computer to look at how you're using this software and decide whether or not you can continue

[00:40:56] using this slide. I have not seen that, but that also doesn't surprise me giving how they're

[00:41:01] always sneaky when they do the renewal. I'm thinking this is bad. Then a couple of weeks ago,

[00:41:09] again, the studio is seeing the writing on the wall. Imagine it like you're going back to the

[00:41:14] Wolverine Deadpool scenario I mentioned. Imagine if you had a choice, you had a choice between what

[00:41:23] the studio just produced coming out next month. You have a choice of a fan made

[00:41:30] movie that's coming out. Which one would you probably want to lean to its first?

[00:41:36] That's just, I think the studios are thinking that and they're going we have to fix this because

[00:41:43] if we don't fix it these fans are going to start producing stuff on mass quantity.

[00:41:51] It's kind of what they do with Star Trek. I'm going to expand that independent film market

[00:41:56] and get something to happen next to the viewers who are hurting, they're going to turn around

[00:42:01] and go, whoa, this stuff is making money. Your stuff isn't helping me. My bottom line. I'm going

[00:42:07] to go this way. What are the studios they're doing now? And it started, I think, with Sony,

[00:42:13] they just started buying chains of theaters. Yes, they did. But now they can control the content

[00:42:18] that's going into the theater. They can say we don't want to watch your movie. Did you see the

[00:42:23] Star Trek scandal where the fans films, they were better quality and the next thing you know,

[00:42:29] Paramount decided hey, you followed all the rules but we're taking this down anyway because

[00:42:35] it means our, you know, franchises in jeopardy. Yeah. And so I see the writing on the wall.

[00:42:43] There's going to be huge battles going on in the next five years. I think between

[00:42:48] independent creative people and professionals because oh yeah, I frankly the moment

[00:42:57] an independent creates an animated short or using novel characters or DC characters or whoever

[00:43:04] I'm going to see that. I'm sorry, I say I have no problem, no, nothing. I'm going to figure out

[00:43:13] way to see that. And if a sequel feels like a bunch of homogies made by fans, then it looks fake.

[00:43:22] It's like we're I mean, I'm sure you know when Bruce Willis retired how he was kind of being

[00:43:28] manipulated by this production company that had long story short tricked the likes of

[00:43:33] DeNaro Mel Gibson, a bunch of these other guys in the doing older crappy movies. I didn't hear about that.

[00:43:40] Yeah, well and these guys still doing it too and you're just like Jesus there's got to be

[00:43:45] some alternative if you don't want to do a Oscar Bay or superhero movie. This can't be the

[00:43:51] only company making indie shit for sublime and Lionsgate and Sony. Yeah, it goes to what I just said.

[00:43:59] I see that we believe the future of entertainment lies in the hand of the individual creators.

[00:44:06] I wish I was motivated in filmmaking that I would question time. I have ideas, but they're not fully

[00:44:17] fleshed out and but I'm hoping people who are who are real fans who go to comic conventions,

[00:44:25] they do the comic walk as they call it. You know, they have the actually by comic books,

[00:44:32] they don't go to the store and look at comics and suddenly become instant fans because they saw

[00:44:37] one comment now. Once they start creating the content, I'm there for them. I'm 100% there,

[00:44:46] but I will support them right now. One person who I'm watching intensely and I telling you the moment

[00:44:55] I hear his film is in the theaters, I'm going to line up overnight like we used to do when

[00:45:01] this movie first came out. We all got online overnight when our tents and waited for the opening

[00:45:12] they don't their July. I know who you know who he is, I'll air July of Ripper first. The

[00:45:19] day he released his movie. I'm going to be online overnight waiting to for opening day

[00:45:25] because I am looking at what he's doing with his comic book company and I'm just blown away.

[00:45:32] He did a video short on a comment. Now let's first say that comes up, Eric July.

[00:45:38] Are you seeing it? I am seeing it when I did a live short. I'm looking at this and I'm thinking

[00:45:45] this guy did this on a minimum budget, a small budget. He has the money to actually put something

[00:45:54] together. The studios are going to hurt. It's just incredible and this goes to what I'm saying.

[00:46:02] When the individuals, us fans, us real fans, I shouldn't say fan because that's used way too

[00:46:10] loosely these days. But when us real fans start creating the content, it's going to blow everything away.

[00:46:17] It's going to change the dynamics of everything. The studios are going to lose their minds

[00:46:23] because they won't be able to keep up. They're so wrapped up with their agenda, what they're trying

[00:46:33] to force feed on society. They're not going to be able to keep up with us as individuals who are

[00:46:39] not interested in that stuff. Who just want to have fun. I don't know if you go to comic conventions

[00:46:45] but I know when I go to comic. I want to do a few. Yeah. I go there to have fun. You know,

[00:46:51] someone is goofy or someone's doing something goofy. I will turn to the person next to me or they

[00:46:57] turn to me and we'll comment about that and we'll have a laugh and we all get along and we move on.

[00:47:04] I don't know who they are. They don't know who I was. The bottom line is we didn't engage in politics

[00:47:17] so nothing distracting. We were just there in the moment having the comic become nerd out

[00:47:26] thing and we enjoyed that moment and we moved on and went about our business and I'm thinking

[00:47:32] that's lacking these days. We're so getting becoming so and so conditioned to have to walk

[00:47:40] on tooth and nails about everything and be careful on how you present certain things and

[00:47:46] you can draw this but you can't draw that. You can do it. It's like it's so much stuff is going on

[00:47:54] whereas real fans, the people who really enjoy this stuff, those rules we tend not to follow

[00:48:02] those rules and we don't quite hit it but again I'm hoping that energy is going to

[00:48:10] go towards these AI software and I'm really looking forward to when these individuals start creating

[00:48:19] stuff because I'm going to be there for them. I'm going to be one of the loudest cheerleaders

[00:48:24] going do it, do it, do it, do it, do it, you know. You said you're right, I don't know

[00:48:30] what little I know about him. I'm sure, you know unfortunately because of where we are in

[00:48:36] age I know way too much about or I think I know way too much about his personal views.

[00:48:46] I don't think that's relevant for me. All I care about is the fact that he loves comics,

[00:48:50] he gets it and he's putting it on screen and I see it and he does get it. It's just about

[00:48:56] entertainment though those shorts that he created. I think a lot of people get tripped up by how

[00:49:03] people are talking and I'm like I don't care how if they're not necessarily smart. If they

[00:49:09] got an idea let them do it. Yeah, it shouldn't be limited to your to an individual political

[00:49:21] point of view. We'll return after these messages. If you like small town mystery, crazy news

[00:49:31] and wild history, then the Florida men on Florida Man podcast is for you. Each week, Josh

[00:49:37] Mills and Wayne McCarty bring you the absolute best Florida has to offer. So if you're looking

[00:49:43] for a show that's safe for the family but funny enough to help you escape everyday life,

[00:49:48] then listen to the Florida men on Florida man podcast. That's Florida men plural on Florida man podcast.

[00:49:55] Hey, it's Brent Pope to host a Brent Fist with Brent Pope. You've seen me on some of your favorite

[00:49:59] TV shows saying things like give it up Jimmy. You got to think this put to win. On Brent Fist with

[00:50:03] Brent Pope, I sit down with guests for the entertainment world and we do it all over breakfast.

[00:50:07] Or should I say Brent Fist? Every week on Brent Fist you get inside Hollywood Info and tips.

[00:50:13] Brent, breakfast, wrecks and booty debates. Most of all you get the most delightful 30 minutes

[00:50:16] of your week so dig in its Brent Fist time. Listen at BrentFist.com, Apple Podcasts or

[00:50:22] ever find podcasts or found. The Jack to Review Show podcast is honored to be part of the blind

[00:50:31] knowledge podcast network. Join anytime talk the talk and enjoy yourselves. There's something

[00:50:37] enlightening for everyone with this crowd of cool cats. Check them out. It should it creativity

[00:50:48] just be open. Creativity should be fun and entertainment. It should be made to entertain. The second

[00:50:56] year film has a message that's the documentary that's not an movie anymore and it should not

[00:51:03] be treated as such. It should be cast aside and move into documentary. I don't have a problem with

[00:51:10] documentaries. There are tons of documentaries, I like but it should be treated as such. The moment

[00:51:17] it has a political angle to it. It should not be considered entertainment in its purest form

[00:51:24] and I so need individuals to jump on who are really creative that way. We have a skill set

[00:51:32] on have to see film and moving pictures and to create stuff that will blow me away. I'm telling

[00:51:40] I can't wait. Like I said, I keep going back to that river verse because after seeing those

[00:51:47] two things alive in the animation, my mind is like if this guy gets if someone can fund him,

[00:51:55] someone can give him some money to produce a feature length movie. My god what this guy

[00:52:03] I would film is going to be just mind-boggling. I wouldn't hesitate to say he might be the first

[00:52:10] billion dollar independent movie maker out there. I mean, there's still time.

[00:52:18] I'm assuming there are other people out there who are doing what he's doing but he's the only

[00:52:24] one that comes to mind because he on Facebook whenever I'm there. I mean YouTube, whenever I'm there,

[00:52:31] his stuff tends to pop up a lot on my feet and I started looking at it trying to figure out why

[00:52:37] is this coming up and when I saw those two shorts, I was like holy smokes.

[00:52:44] Whatever you might think about the guy put that aside just look at what he's creating on the level

[00:52:51] entertainment and you've got to walk away going. If this guy can produce this on a larger scale,

[00:53:01] he's about to change the game entirely. Did no question on that? Let's hope man. Let's hope.

[00:53:08] I don't know how we got on this tangent. Oh, we were talking about just stuff. I mean,

[00:53:15] we're just being in jeopardy as well as seeing light at the end of the tunnel and studio,

[00:53:21] revolting against studios that are being heavy handed and treating everyone like

[00:53:24] petchiller children. A bit of everything but that's okay. We're a very flexible show

[00:53:30] and this has been just good just kind of messing our brains. It's got to do because like, you know,

[00:53:37] you are ultimately hitting the nail in the head. No fun. Then there's going to be nothing

[00:53:45] to show. There's got to be some and if you micromanage, you know, you also don't get anything.

[00:53:57] You've joked about before about other people who have asked you and you've just been like,

[00:54:01] oh, just become a doctor. Anything that makes the living of what nowadays, what secondary

[00:54:09] jobs would you recommend for people who are getting into any degree of art? What are they're putting

[00:54:13] stuff on DVNR, put them stuff on Patreon, put them stuff on and not actual art show and then

[00:54:20] like doing some painting or you know, because that's the main hard thing is getting the

[00:54:27] bills done on time. We have the same time doing what you want that direction one. From what I'm

[00:54:33] hearing and I could be wrong because I'm just hearing stuff comic book rates. I heard apparently

[00:54:41] the rates have gone down of people and not getting paid. What kind of on a fiber, they really

[00:54:48] bastardize that a lot where you're just like, I'll do that but that's no, that's like three

[00:54:53] people's worth of work. Yeah, so I, you know, answering your question on what I would tell people

[00:55:00] to do, it's a hard call because I know as an artist like I said, that's my passion is being creative

[00:55:10] and I want to always be able to exercise that ability. I would lose my mind if I couldn't do that,

[00:55:19] that said, this field that I'm working in is shrinking and I cannot pretend it's not. And I can,

[00:55:31] you know, unions and everything can come along and try to enforce rules and put regulations

[00:55:38] in place and stuff. But this, the reality is it's, it's there and it's like cold water being

[00:55:48] thrown at you. AI is here. It's not going to go away and it's going to get better. And like

[00:55:55] I'm not particularly for us in the graphic field is going to replace a lot of us because AI will give

[00:56:03] the employer the ability to get what they want when they want it, how they want it.

[00:56:09] They have to deal with us at all. If you as an artist people are lazy, they don't like to say

[00:56:14] what's on their mind which is hard to improve yourself if they don't say. So, hey, I need to tell

[00:56:21] someone to go into the art field. I'm very reserved about that. You're not the first person

[00:56:29] asked me this question and I, it's hard to me to tell someone become an artist or graphic artist.

[00:56:36] It's a good business because I'm looking at where it is just going. I'm at the right point

[00:56:42] because I'm heading to a end of career. So, I'm looking for the out. You know, this is not where,

[00:56:49] where you, you know, I'm not starting out. But it's someone coming out. That's fine, dude. I mean,

[00:56:55] it's business. I just fell about filmmaking and then I had to have a break because

[00:57:01] but again, with filmmaking you have all this AI stuff that's come in and like I said,

[00:57:09] you have this company. It's a major brand created a commercial and commercial that's airing

[00:57:15] all through AI. It's not going to go away. You can argue it to death. You can, you can insulted

[00:57:23] however you want the reality here is AI is becoming a part of what we're doing and at some point

[00:57:32] it will overtake what we're doing. What work will become available, I guess, is writing prompts.

[00:57:39] How good a prompter you are will probably get you work. But how long does that last? Before that

[00:57:47] is done by the machine. So, you know, I don't know how to advise people coming out of school

[00:57:55] going into graphics even animators. You know, old school leaders who sat around drawing

[00:58:03] cells and stuff that's an amazing skill set to be an animator but now you have things that can

[00:58:16] animation. Yeah. So, it's like, and you go, well, it's not going to look as good as what I can do

[00:58:23] because I can go ahead. At some point that machine is going to learn how to draw hands. That's just

[00:58:31] the reality. It's not as if it's not going to evolve. The machine is going to evolve. It's going

[00:58:37] to get better. It's not, so the argument of it can't do or you know, it won't be. I'm sorry. I can't

[00:58:46] go with that. So, I don't know how to advise someone coming out of school and tell them what

[00:58:52] feels to go into because to tell them to be kind of graphic arts is a great business. It was a great

[00:58:58] business but it's a changing business now and I don't know what the work landscape looks like

[00:59:05] two years out. You know, I won't even go five because five years out and may not even exist anymore

[00:59:13] but two years out. I don't know what it looks like so I can't advise you as someone starting out to say,

[00:59:19] yeah, become an illustrator or become a graphic, an ancient becoming an illustrator. When I went

[00:59:25] to Parsons, I wanted to be an illustrator because at the time the people I was looking at were

[00:59:32] making may not know them. But a fewks, but Robert Fuchs, Mark English, and you'd recommended

[00:59:45] some other good artists in the past before. So, there's good housekeepings out Parker as well as

[00:59:50] the, yeah, how pocketed. A generic Norman Rockwell, you know, different industry, you know,

[00:59:57] at the time I remember, as a kid, you've seen that stuff and gone, I want to do that kind of work.

[01:00:03] So when I got graduated from Parsons, I wanted to be an illustrator. Guess what? There wasn't

[01:00:11] illustration work available and the Mac was just starting in its infancy. I mean,

[01:00:18] not the Mac, the computer itself and its infancy. I mean it was huge things.

[01:00:27] So long story short, I never got the opportunity to become that type of illustrator.

[01:00:35] I had to go to the graphic route and become a graphic designer because what people were looking for.

[01:00:42] So, you know, my point being right now if I'm coming out of school, I want to be a graphic artist.

[01:00:52] I don't know what that looks like because there are less and less work available.

[01:00:57] I was just coming. I saw unrecognizable compared to what it was two years ago. Yeah, the machines

[01:01:02] that are creating a lot of the graphics or supplementing a lot of the graphics and it's like

[01:01:09] where would I fit in coming out of school and competing against this machine that can do what the client wants faster.

[01:01:19] And you know, it's always cheaper which often means lesser. Exactly. So I don't know how to explain to

[01:01:27] them hey, you got to put some serious money into it. Not saying a million dollars but we're also not

[01:01:33] saying you know, 20, you know, something like that. So it's like I don't I don't know how to advise

[01:01:41] people going forward. I would say good luck that I think that's the best I can give you. I like

[01:01:47] that. Oh, really, you know, good luck because I don't know what this future looks like for

[01:01:54] aspiring artists coming out of school. Even fine arts, I I I the fine art market

[01:02:02] is such a hard bit pickle market to get into because you know, you can be as good as

[01:02:10] good can get but the only way you become relevant is if you're in the right click.

[01:02:20] You know, maybe you're an introvert. You don't want to get around people, you know, you you like to

[01:02:30] around people, you're not you're not socially awkward or you're not into presenting your work.

[01:02:36] You know, you're not comfortable with a portfolio. No one will ever see your work. It's all about

[01:02:42] clicking and being in the right group and, you know, having the right social media and having the

[01:02:48] right number of people clicking on your stuff. I mean, I can't tell you the number of times

[01:02:52] I've been on Instagram and I've seen artwork that's amazing and they've only got three or four

[01:02:59] likes and I'm like, are you serious? Whereas I'm looking at other stuff that really look like it was poop.

[01:03:08] There's thousands of likes and it's like, it's exhausting dude. Yeah, they're just as here. So

[01:03:15] I don't know. You did mention some office politics earlier, dude. I've been with people who

[01:03:24] where is like they're not necessarily going out their way to pick on the little guy, but

[01:03:30] sometimes he goes really do blind everybody like to where it's just like kind of that same deal where

[01:03:39] you're seeing people saying, you know, clap and like we'll clap over what nothing, nothing got

[01:03:44] published here. Yeah, this isn't clap worthy. I won't tell a lie. It's a weird situation to be

[01:03:56] us as creative people at this moment in time because the business is changing. It's interesting

[01:04:03] at the same time it's fascinating to me because I'm curious to see how it's going to all turn out.

[01:04:10] I don't know if I'll be around to see where this is all going or you'd see where it's leading to

[01:04:17] because it's going to always be evolving. But it's frustrating at the same time because you look

[01:04:25] back at the past 10, 20 years, 30 years behind you and you look at what people were doing

[01:04:33] and you're like, I want to do that. That look like that was fun. That was interesting.

[01:04:41] But that window is closed. You can't no one wants that anymore. They want what's in the now

[01:04:47] and you have to be able to give them what's in the now but what's in the now is literally being

[01:04:55] placed by machine. It's a mess. I don't know. The best thing you could do for yourself

[01:05:06] is figure out a way to make a living and when we start as a podcast, my dude. When we start

[01:05:16] in this podcast, we pretty much within the first year we're figuring out, okay, here's what we will

[01:05:21] never do. We will give ourselves enough time to watch or read whatever we're talking about.

[01:05:28] If it's book club night versus movie night, we will not make recording a nightmare because

[01:05:38] it'll show you that we're always show. If it's chaotic, you're going to show. Not always but

[01:05:44] most of the time you're going to hear us in our voice how we're pressed for time while we're

[01:05:51] talking about it's bad. We've got to give ourselves enough time and it seems like that's also the

[01:05:58] other thing. We're not giving ourselves enough time to get anything done.

[01:06:05] I agree. I agree. It's a weird thing to be a graphics person right now or creative person in

[01:06:14] general. Try to figure out if you fit into all of this. I'm helping out in Palo now,

[01:06:20] Chris again. In time she's got a fundraiser for her comic book where her husband does all the

[01:06:27] artwork. I almost always jump on and say awesome. You have to support independent folks because I think

[01:06:36] that's the last... What is the word I'm looking for? I don't want to say frontier because

[01:06:46] that's the last line of defense before it all goes away. It's like, because of our age,

[01:06:58] we've always known movies existed. We've always known comic books existed into payment in general,

[01:07:06] but the reality is a lot of this stuff didn't start existing until around I guess 1800s or late 1800s

[01:07:15] or late 1800s. We happened to be born at a time where we grew up with this stuff around us.

[01:07:25] TV and all of this stuff. It wasn't always there. With that mindset, my thinking is everything

[01:07:34] else about this universe, it has a beginning and end. All of this stuff we assume is going to

[01:07:41] have a long shelf life, but the reality is I think it's going to end at some point. And I strongly

[01:07:49] believe we're looking at the end of the film industry because of all the things we talked about,

[01:07:55] I think Dave lost the ability to create what film was all about in its very beginning when it

[01:08:06] was born and that's entertainment. Dave lost the ability to create entertainment, and therefore

[01:08:12] it's dying a natural depth. And it's a death rattle right now they're fighting to hang on,

[01:08:18] but I think it's going to go away. I think the next line of defense, not defense, the next line

[01:08:26] then if the independence, the individuals coming out with their own content and entertaining us

[01:08:34] and we're able to pick and choose what we want, not based on politics and all the gender wars

[01:08:42] and all this other stuff, but being able to pick and choose what really intitains us. I think

[01:08:50] at some point, even that my die and go away, and I don't know what will replace it or how that will

[01:08:59] be replaced. You know, I don't have the imagination to see what replaces this moment in time

[01:09:11] because this moment in time will go away like every thing else. I'm glad you brought most of this

[01:09:16] up though, dude, because like I get accused of being a killjoy sometimes and I know I'm not the only one here,

[01:09:25] but it just gets annoying because I'm like, I'm not saying there isn't going to be any entertainment,

[01:09:30] but a lot of what I'm seeing just feels generic and solace so other than not supporting it,

[01:09:37] all one can do is just kind of just be like, I guess I'm going back to my old tapes,

[01:09:41] you know, I'm going back to my old books because I'm not seeing much creativity here and it's

[01:09:48] it's just leaving a stink. So you're just like, okay, what if there's nothing entertaining about it,

[01:09:57] I'm just going to stop staring at it and I'm not going to kill anyone else who is enjoying it in the room,

[01:10:02] but when they come at you five years later saying that was overrated or that didn't hold up on

[01:10:08] like I saw the writing on the wall then where he was. You know, take this for a moment.

[01:10:17] I don't know the age of Beethoven, Loud Van, I forgot the full of the names, but there was

[01:10:25] a moment in time when musicians were to entertain themselves, besides were the rock stars of their

[01:10:33] moment. They were the only recreation. Exactly, they were the thing. They,

[01:10:42] everyone was waiting for the next hit. The next number, the next thing to come out. But over time,

[01:10:50] they slowly disappeared. A handful of people kept up with it, but for the most part,

[01:10:57] that form of entertainment just disappeared off the radar. No longer was the focus, something

[01:11:05] else replaced it and then next thing you know, we have film and TV and stuff and it's like my thinking

[01:11:12] is if you look at the past as a way to kind of predict what possible, what the future might possibly

[01:11:21] look like, you can look at what the musicians were doing in their moment in time when they were

[01:11:28] the it and no one thought that would go away and they did go away. And now we just look at it

[01:11:34] for the sake of nostalgia and you have a handful who are into classical music and I look at

[01:11:42] film in the same manner and to entertain us. Like what we've been born into had a literally had a

[01:11:49] beginning and we're in the middle of it and we're looking at the end. It's literally killing

[01:11:54] itself because it's no longer doing what it originally was born to do. It's it's straight so far from

[01:12:02] course, no one wants it anymore. The group of people who are using it becoming smaller and smaller

[01:12:10] and smaller and then my possibly come a time when maybe 100 years from now, 200 years from now,

[01:12:20] whoever around will look back on what we're doing, what we've created as nostalgia and they

[01:12:27] will collect our movies and TV shows like we collect classical music. That's my thinking

[01:12:37] and I don't think that's a downer. I just think that's a reality. No, I mean the

[01:12:41] why we kind of do a lot of these chats were often just trying to kind of decipher

[01:12:47] a literal in-game instead of just being like do or die or start shit up. We're all trying to

[01:12:56] kind of find a positive but it's really hard to look at one when you're seeing a lot of harrowing

[01:13:01] stuff and yes, it is true that a lot of people seem to go oh you guys are Debbie Downers. I'm like

[01:13:06] it's still hard to be optimistic when you're not seeing much improvement. I stopped hanging out

[01:13:12] at certain networking events because I was seeing some of the same people who were wasting a

[01:13:17] lot of the same time and so then I was like okay I'm going to stop coming to these events because

[01:13:22] you guys don't really want to get anything done other than hand out your cards, you know.

[01:13:30] One of the things they tell people a lot nowadays, particularly I think after my mom

[01:13:36] passed away, I think it gave me perspective and his passing. My mom definitely did because

[01:13:46] you know up to that point I'm good. I have to get that and I understood the fact that

[01:13:53] we're born and we die but I did not get the impact and what that really means until her passing

[01:14:05] and even though it still upsets me, I do get emotional about it but

[01:14:13] from part of accepted it because I realized this was a part of our existence on this planet

[01:14:22] and the end of time that you exist on this planet, unfortunately we're in a society where

[01:14:31] they're training us to be consumers and follow rules. We all want to suck our

[01:14:37] you and instead of put aside. I think part of life what a meaning of life is to enjoy this life

[01:14:46] and enjoy who you are and find people who like minded on some degree to enjoy their company

[01:14:54] and exchange ideas and grow from those ideas and groups that will hopefully

[01:15:03] can be why we do this. That's all there is, you know sometimes people lose perspective

[01:15:12] and they're fighting a fight. It's not worth fighting because I saw a great Instagram video

[01:15:22] a couple weeks ago where this person posted in a imagine, imagine a hundred years from now

[01:15:32] where will you be? Oh and that happened not 100 years but they said, imagine where will you be

[01:15:39] in 2021, 24 and you saw that title and you're thinking but then as you read it he goes,

[01:15:47] that's 100 years from now. Obviously you won't be on the planet obviously, 100 years from now unless

[01:15:56] we're miracle occurs and you're able to live close to 200 years old. That's about

[01:16:02] not going to be around at 21 23 24 me. They mentioned in the article,

[01:16:10] everything that you consider a value will have been gone either thrown away or gone.

[01:16:18] At that point in time it's very likely no one will even know you existed. That's why

[01:16:25] you know I thought about that and I thought, you know they got a good point because

[01:16:30] I'm trying to think, it'll be hard to live because your body will have already accumulated a

[01:16:36] cancer or other drugs. It's like all the same and all the stuff that we tried to do.

[01:16:43] All the stuff that would be appreciated is now on recognizable. Think about it. Think about 1924.

[01:16:50] How many people of importance can you name? Probably none if maybe one or two.

[01:16:59] So we forgot about it. I mean, no matter how important you think you are in this moment in time,

[01:17:07] no matter how big a celebrity you are, you are going to be unimportant 100 years out.

[01:17:14] And the way I know that is a fact, there's another illustrator, Gibson, Charles Dana Gibson.

[01:17:22] I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's a pen and it requires his.

[01:17:26] I'm not. I see that's another thing lost to history. I would love to know more about it from

[01:17:30] the late, I think late in 1880s, early 1900. And he drew pen and a women at the time.

[01:17:41] And one of his pen models was the social light. She was very famous, extremely famous,

[01:17:48] famous to the point that she, she had a boyfriend if I'm remembering the story correctly.

[01:17:56] He's a boyfriend or husband. She was cheating and because the husband murdered the lover

[01:18:03] and he was caught. And this was huge news at the time. It made the top half of the New York times

[01:18:14] that's how big this was back in the moment in time. That was the equivalent of, I guess,

[01:18:22] whatever a scandal you want in this day and age but that was a huge scandal. But I barely

[01:18:27] know all the facts to that from, and that we're talking about a little over 100 years. But I

[01:18:34] fairly remember or know the details of that case. And we don't even know the fact that it was an

[01:18:43] illustrator who was involved with this model and her being involved with two men and there was a

[01:18:57] and going back to the Instagram thing talking about 100 years from now, no matter how big we

[01:19:04] think we are, I compare it to that when I'm going to be relevant 100 years from now. So my point is

[01:19:12] enjoy the moment. Figure out what it is that you're about and enjoy your time. Make it worthwhile.

[01:19:20] Don't fight fights that are not worth fighting. Be creative. Creativity is an amazing

[01:19:27] thing because creativity is what all good societies are built from. And I think the way you fight

[01:19:35] all the insanity is to be creative. Be the best creative. You can. Don't think in the box, let

[01:19:45] you imagine, fly and just create and leave that will be the legacy that will carry you somehow

[01:19:54] into the future for someone else to build on 100 years from now. Because other than that, everything

[01:20:01] else is the relevant. If someone likes red and you like orange and you're going, no it has to be orange,

[01:20:10] it can't be red or I'm blue and you're red and all of this is really literally irrelevant. It's

[01:20:24] you're going to die and all of these things are going to die with you. And the only thing that

[01:20:34] will possibly survive is your creativity, what you contribute to that society you're in,

[01:20:42] that someone can build upon and take it forward into the future. So yeah, this is the point I was

[01:20:49] thinking about my mother passing. It dawned on me that as much as I love her and I wanted her to

[01:20:58] be around forever, she's gone. That's it. You're not dishonoring anybody but you are facing the music

[01:21:11] just like that. This is the part of the reality of who we are, this is our DNA. Like it or not,

[01:21:18] you could be a call it a downer, you can call it whatever you want but this is the reality. We have

[01:21:24] excellent of time and we cannot afford to waste that time fighting among ourselves. You have to find

[01:21:31] that space or create that space for yourself where you can be the best of what of you of what

[01:21:38] you like to do. Create it, build it, make it, do your thing contribute and then accept when that

[01:21:48] moment comes that you have to let go. You got to let go because it's not, it's you know, to fight

[01:21:54] among ourselves again. It's like it drives me crazy to listen to people arguing about who's right,

[01:22:00] who's wrong. You know my point of view is this is the way it has to be. You got to accept

[01:22:06] it's like, dude, this is a fight for someone else. It's not for me. At this point I met a point where

[01:22:14] my perspective is different. My perspective is all about making Pierre happy in its final years.

[01:22:21] I get the 50 years in front of me. I am going to be the happiest person, particularly if I

[01:22:28] can still walk in certain body parts of Stilmerk again. I would be happiest man

[01:22:34] on the freaking planet. But I'm not going to spend my next 50 years fighting fights that are

[01:22:42] not worthwhile to me. It doesn't make sense and I know a couple of friends have told me that's

[01:22:49] the fetus attitude to take. I'm like, no it's not. This is a realistic attitude to take.

[01:22:56] You can fight the good fight if you want to fight, if you feel it's worth

[01:22:59] your fighting this stuff. But my thinking is, you know, I'm going to be true to me. I'm

[01:23:06] going to create this is what I love to do and through my creations, you either you like it

[01:23:14] and you'll embrace it and take it forward or you'll say this is trash and you'll bury it and

[01:23:20] you'll never talk about it again. That's it and when I go, I want to have a few, I wish,

[01:23:28] oh, I what if moments in my head. I want to have be clear. I want to be in that state of

[01:23:35] I'm assuming fear of knowing that you're about to never wake up again. I'm only imagining

[01:23:42] that's probably what's going through a person's mind when they're going through that transition

[01:23:48] that there's a level of fear and anxiety. I want that to be clear. I don't want to be thinking

[01:23:55] about any X. I don't want to be thinking about anything. I just want to be focused on that moment

[01:24:04] of acceptance, this is the reality of the life and I want to be able to, if I have a second or two

[01:24:11] to think, oh yes, I did this and I was really happy about that and that's it. I know it's

[01:24:19] I don't consider the speed of saying. I don't either do. There's something we can agree on,

[01:24:28] but it is true. I think a lot of people like to get eaten up by stuff that is out of their control.

[01:24:41] But at the same time, they're just everything's bothering them for lack of a better

[01:24:47] Yeah, you know, I feel for them. I don't know how to help people in those way of thinking.

[01:24:57] Like I said, for me right now my perspective is living let live. If you want to do you do

[01:25:03] you, I don't care. It's not my business. Let me be, do me, stare out of my business and if we

[01:25:10] like my business and we get along then I welcome you. If we don't, we're going to sit there

[01:25:18] at the fight with you. I don't have the time because like I said, time is limited. If you're

[01:25:24] spending the time every day waking up stressed out because you're going to go fight the good fight

[01:25:30] you're missing out on a lot. You know, big ass world and you know, we all live in a small

[01:25:42] I mean, a minisq slice of what's going on. It's not likely we're going to be space-traveled

[01:25:52] space dwellers in our lifetime. We don't have the technology for that. But that said,

[01:25:57] our planet is huge. There is no way you're going to cover this entire planet. Even if you

[01:26:04] will wealthy and capable of traveling everywhere, there are parts of it. You will never get to.

[01:26:10] There is just that much on our tiny planet alone. So to spend the time

[01:26:18] being unhappy in your little tiny thing that you occupy is insanity. It's insanity.

[01:26:27] That you should be out there looking to expand that space and see what potentials, what

[01:26:35] lies out there that you can do. What other things accessible to you, whether they're limited or

[01:26:43] whatever, but you should be looking at the bigger picture. And my concern, not my concern,

[01:26:52] my thing is watching people who are constantly micro looking at the world and their little

[01:27:00] bubble, and everyone has to wear the same uniform or else. And my thinking is, you know,

[01:27:08] that's old, that's tired. I don't know where we're going to take you. Like the evolving,

[01:27:15] there's nothing about what we are that's not changing. When I lived in New York,

[01:27:22] there's a place called a Brooklyn Museum. And looking at you live in New York?

[01:27:29] I know. But I've seen I've always wondered about the different museums and other events in there.

[01:27:37] I have had friends in there and same kind of deal as you where they would have to figure out

[01:27:43] their places to live because you know, the rent and cost money. So that's it.

[01:27:49] But the reason I bring up the museum, they have a full one at a top floor is where they have

[01:27:55] old furniture from the turn of the century to early 1900s. And you look at the furniture and

[01:28:03] the tiny, they look like doll house furniture. And it dawned on me. These were real people using

[01:28:11] this furniture. And we're talking about at one point. About a hundred years ago,

[01:28:16] this is how we've been involved. We've become so much bigger that this stuff looks like it was made

[01:28:22] for doll houses. And my thinking is a hundred years from now, they're going to look at us

[01:28:28] and everything that we have. And it's weird. It's not it's. And much as we want to think our

[01:28:37] cell phone is the it's the bomb because it has a computer in it. I can only imagine what they're

[01:28:44] going to have at 100 years that they're going to look at a cell phone and go, put the hell,

[01:28:48] they walked around with this thing. And I know this damn thing captured everything and no one knew

[01:28:55] it's the irony. Yeah. So it's like knowing this is how we are evolving. The fact that you're fighting

[01:29:05] to fighting over an idea or something that you think needs to be permanent or a certain way

[01:29:16] makes almost zero sense because things are going to evolve the way they need to evolve

[01:29:21] on this planet. Whether you're part of a change just messes with everything. You know, what's

[01:29:34] going to be going to be a change in the way? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean science will lie to you. Yeah.

[01:29:40] He's so right. It's like we can do what we can try to manipulate and try to control it as much

[01:29:49] as we can, but for the reality is this thing is bigger than us and it will evolve the way it

[01:29:57] wants to evolve. And whether you like it or not it's going to take go into its future

[01:30:04] it's going to conclude the way it needs to conclude whether a meteor hits the planet and

[01:30:10] ends all life here or we evolve into something then with bug eyes and skinny fingers and

[01:30:18] it will evolve. We will have implants maybe whatever we are now and we're fighting to keep

[01:30:27] will become irrelevant a hundred years from now. Look back at these folks were crazy.

[01:30:37] So again my advice and I guess this is to tie everything with a bow is anyone graduating right now

[01:30:47] find a career that brings you joy, find something to do that you enjoy,

[01:30:53] be the best at it, be creative and grow it and hopefully someone will pick it up and take it

[01:31:03] into the future for you other than that I think to sit down to try to figure out

[01:31:11] the small fights and arguing with each other unnecessarily picking choose the fire the

[01:31:18] battles you need to fight you don't need to fight to be battle you need to just figure out how to

[01:31:25] live a happy life and be a decent person that's all that's in the important. Yeah need enough by

[01:31:30] just stuff that's so out of reach like we're not saying surrender and we're also not saying

[01:31:37] don't speak your mind but it is true it is a lot of people who get caught up in everything

[01:31:42] he's like oh you still need a filter like when you know who who shall not be named got elected my

[01:31:51] mother was just like endlessly like wanted what seen in nonstop unlike you are just that is as

[01:31:57] if that man is in the room with us right now what why do you want to bring

[01:32:03] all these unselvable issues you know it's what it is you got to just accept it and move on

[01:32:11] I would look for like three stories on like the top of Google news and then move on with the

[01:32:16] day and try to avoid any awful person. Exactly. Exactly. And now I'm not saying I'm not going

[01:32:25] to you know stand my ground if I see someone get mugged at like a pharmacy you know but it was just

[01:32:31] one of those like a lot of people when they I mean I just dealt with insomnia and I

[01:32:39] after much support and everything I finally got my world back together but

[01:32:44] anyone else would have probably just kept collapsing kept having on stable you know days

[01:32:52] rather not getting much of anything done and falling on hard times and it's one of those things

[01:32:58] you've got to keep going you've got to have the consistent schedule every day otherwise you'll

[01:33:03] just keep driving yourself crazy in your own home. Exactly. I mean yeah I mean and you sound like

[01:33:11] you've done a good job of just filtering out the bullshit like when I'm trying it I can't say I've

[01:33:16] done a great a good job but you do have a good thing in your and your previous interviews where you're

[01:33:22] saying vent out the toxic thoughts we all have toxic thoughts that you know our brain likes to

[01:33:29] iterate and it's like kind we're doing that come from totally but I try my best if anything to

[01:33:36] always check myself to always step back from everything that's put in front of me to ask myself

[01:33:43] if it's making sense for me and it's just something that's important enough to me that I need to voice

[01:33:51] an opinion on or if this one of those things that I got I'll just let go and move on because I

[01:33:58] guess that time is of essence now. So I've been kind of like my mom again I hate to keep bringing

[01:34:06] her up but I see a number one person in your life or was it one situation basically

[01:34:14] nailed it for me and made me realize I cannot afford to waste time time is very valuable to me

[01:34:22] and if I'm if I'm not doing something that I'm enjoying or having fun at that moment

[01:34:28] I just shouldn't be doing it and I'm like I said I know what work there are times you have to

[01:34:36] do things that you don't want to do because you got it or an a check and you got those to pay

[01:34:41] and you got responsibilities but my thinking is even in those moments try to figure out how to make

[01:34:49] what is miserable to you pleasurable everything has the love this yes this is what we're talking about

[01:35:00] okay and it's like when you figure out how to make that negative a positive for yourself

[01:35:08] but at moment so that you can get through it because if everything just stays in that space

[01:35:14] you're never going to be happy and I think happiness is a big part of this stuff is like

[01:35:20] if you're not enjoying it and going back to my favorite phrase having fun

[01:35:27] what's the point and going on that I want to bring this full circle to this stuff

[01:35:34] these books and I'm talking about some great books so Piri was beyond

[01:35:41] Piri is actually send these in the mail and it's like again you you got multiple different

[01:35:52] crossword puzzles but you have chosen a different style with each one and any

[01:35:57] one you've also divided them each by sections I mean for the graduation college one

[01:36:03] he had one which were number combos as well as ones that were entertainment guesses as well as a

[01:36:09] like a white thing yeah I mean one of the things that anime one but man yeah one of

[01:36:16] when I started this project this was two years of an applause that's thank you thank that's

[01:36:22] something I feel really proud about these books because it's you very big

[01:36:27] I was on YouTube and I saw people talking about doing doing stuff if on Amazon and stuff

[01:36:36] and I was curious and as I started looking into it I realized this stuff is kind of stuff I used to

[01:36:43] play when it was a kid so as I when I did the first very first book that I put together it was like

[01:36:53] I noticed a handful people would buy it from time to time and they and as I watched more

[01:37:00] more videos and it came familiar with this stuff I discovered rediscovered coloring books

[01:37:06] because I'm a big collector of coloring books started creating coloring books and then that led me

[01:37:11] down the path of words searches and moment I rediscovered word searches in my mind I

[01:37:21] started gone well how can I put a twist on this and I started numbers and I started I go

[01:37:29] alright there's a ton of word searches and number books out there they're all black and white

[01:37:35] they're all same so many things yeah that's so many I mean you pick a topic and it's probably

[01:37:40] a thousand books with the same words inside of them and I thought well numbers are infinite

[01:37:47] the only limit is the number of numbers I can put on a page other than that I can create

[01:37:54] endless number of number books and no two books will ever be the same because there's so many

[01:38:00] numbers so I started these numbers and I realized after reading a couple of articles online

[01:38:06] about this numbers are actually more challenging because unlike words it's no way for you to have

[01:38:13] a memory of the numbers it's not all backed up you know like right they take them code

[01:38:20] for example if you were looking up the word crayon you kind of know what the word crayon looks like

[01:38:27] so when you're looking for it you know how to look for it but this isn't what's been a delight my

[01:38:32] dude just talking with you just because like you're good at just kind of talking about the

[01:38:36] stuff that just eats all of us up in a cerebral kind of way instead of exactly it only makes sense

[01:38:42] of this kind of crowd but might not make sense of this kind of person you know we all have thought

[01:38:48] it even if we didn't know how to illustrate it in words but fortunately you as an artist you just

[01:38:53] got to write the z-all exactly exactly so yes I did these numbers and suddenly it started

[01:39:02] dawning on me why aren't people doing graphics in these pie good question and I like the oldest

[01:39:10] trick in the book yeah I went online and I went on Amazon because Amazon is where I'm selling a lot

[01:39:16] of these books and I think I've told it found so far only four people attempted to put graphic

[01:39:25] images into these searches and I'm like why aren't they doing it and I tried to do one really

[01:39:30] it takes a lot of work it's not so you can't generate a program to put these graphics together

[01:39:37] you have to edit the graphic you have to make sure they reduce properly to a quarter of frame

[01:39:43] yeah and you have to make sure it works just like when you're putting up when you're framing

[01:39:48] something in a poster you gotta make sure it's not overlapping because then the images will be bigger

[01:39:55] exactly but more importantly you have to make sure the puzzle works yes more possibly than looking

[01:40:03] for something that's not in the puzzle they can't be solved so I I've recently figured out how to

[01:40:11] cooperate graphics into these puzzle and I could give you a preview I have these things coming

[01:40:19] up I don't know if you can see it the chess yeah and I'm doing dice and I'm doing a bunch of

[01:40:26] other things graphics now with search because I figured out more about how to put these elements

[01:40:33] into these puzzles to make them work and make them readable which is really important so I'm

[01:40:39] having the time of my life doing these and you know I don't know how long I'll continue to do this

[01:40:45] I'll do it until I'm no longer enjoying it and I'm sure something else will come along

[01:40:52] and I will that easily slurve into whatever else comes along that is entertaining to me you know

[01:40:59] but in the meantime I'm having fun doing this I'm creating these books I have like a dozen of them on

[01:41:07] those who wonder PB art creations is on Amazon thank you and we will link that in the

[01:41:16] episode but it's I'm just probably a period because I see so many other

[01:41:23] talents who once they get a gig and once that fades away you know like I would see people who were

[01:41:29] like used to be involved with Howard Stern and they were so angry at they had loved their time

[01:41:34] and then it ended all just blown up in their face and same kind of deal they kind of just went into

[01:41:39] depression and it's like now you can't you know I like it's a car rack and your paralyzed don't

[01:41:46] do that I would say with me when it ended with me on Conan I would say for the first

[01:41:55] sort of first six months maybe last there was that moment of what did I do but why did they let me go

[01:42:04] what's going on here why you know what the hell but at that moment in time all I remember was

[01:42:13] I I dived into life drawing at the time and suddenly everything else didn't matter anymore

[01:42:19] because I found my next thing wasn't a pain gig but it was life drawing and I was drawing all these

[01:42:25] beautiful models and I was having the time of my life and I think you saw it on Facebook

[01:42:30] suddenly I was posting pictures of all these incredible women that I was drawing and I

[01:42:36] at my head space went into a whole another thing and I think that's that's the thing I

[01:42:44] I still had t-shirts from my old job and these are from awful jobs that were so it's

[01:42:49] so funny you always fill a sense of loyalty even though they did you wrong so it's just like

[01:42:54] but now it's it's a loyalty that has faded because just like dex girlfriends that I don't

[01:43:04] sleep over you know I don't sleep over the job it was a fun time in my life and I really

[01:43:12] appreciate the opportunities they gave me but it's over and that's part of history there are so many

[01:43:20] other things that have occurred in the in those years sense and those are the things I'm

[01:43:25] embracing and like right now gone back to my books those are those are what are important to me

[01:43:31] at the moment these books creating these books this is what I sleep on dream on I am you know

[01:43:38] full time creating my books I am like that's all that's important to me at the moment

[01:43:44] and like I said at some point I'm sure they I might get bored of this and I will find that

[01:43:51] next thing and I will always be creating and I want to always have that career where in the

[01:43:57] matter what is on the phone to ring for something that's not going to happen yeah yeah I want

[01:44:03] to always be creating and I always want to have fun with what I'm doing and I don't want that to be

[01:44:09] dictated by anyone or anything I don't want finger anyone or anything limiting my fun in life

[01:44:16] I want that to always be under my control it's always got to be me I got to decide what I'm going

[01:44:23] to be doing I need to decide how I'm going to be doing it and you know if it's not that way

[01:44:30] then I'm not doing it because yeah it's all about fun now yep I only get one life to out to make it fun

[01:44:39] too you know yeah that's so true it's all about fun now and so before we let you go you know

[01:44:49] you've already been beyond gracious with your time one thing I'm noticing just with any kind of

[01:44:55] gig any kind of profession is people don't give themselves enough breathing space

[01:45:02] how would you say you have handled just giving yourself just time for you in between

[01:45:09] what you're going to accomplish in your day you know you've already hit upon just so much just

[01:45:18] what you like and making that work for you all that sorry answer that question that

[01:45:27] can only give you an answer that applies to me and it goes back to what I mentioned to you earlier

[01:45:33] I love creating so me creating is my breathing space if I'm not creating I will lose my mind

[01:45:44] if I sit in front of the TV for a half an hour it has to be a damn good reason I'm sitting in

[01:45:53] on a TV for half an hour and so I love that movie I set through the two hours I watched it I

[01:46:01] watched the Empire Strike back but I had to get up to go work on my book because as much as I love

[01:46:08] those three movies and by the way at side point I watched one of your previous

[01:46:15] podcasts you had someone on and you guys were talking about Star Wars I just want to get the

[01:46:20] good straight there were only three Star Wars movies I'm sorry there were three Star Wars movies

[01:46:28] most of my life three additional movies that were my Lucas as a passion thing because he just

[01:46:35] created his what you call it his special effects company and he wanted to take that out for a ride

[01:46:42] so he created additional three movies but that said there's only three Star Wars movies Star Wars

[01:46:49] began and ended with three there's nothing else I don't know what Disney bought in their airing

[01:46:56] but those are not Star Wars three. Mondo is a whole different it's a year-old.

[01:47:03] So I leave it at that where were we people I don't know you were asking about how do I

[01:47:12] deal with the time right how do you make time for yourself give yourself

[01:47:17] because I said it's an every job I've always been in creativity so that when I'm not

[01:47:25] being creative it's when I'm on the other side of that question making time for myself is me

[01:47:34] being creative creativity is not a work job it's not a project it's not something I do to keep

[01:47:42] myself busy that's why I am it defines everything about me if that makes me boring or odd

[01:47:50] so be it but that's who I am so when you asked that question for me how do I find time for myself

[01:48:01] I find time for myself through my creativity I when I'm on the other side of that

[01:48:09] question of that window or that question that's when that question becomes relevant when I'm

[01:48:15] sitting around doing nothing then you could ask that question well how do you find time for yourself

[01:48:22] and I find that I find time for myself to be through creativity I will get up and start

[01:48:30] figuring out how to be creative hopefully that's how I find time for myself so you you let it

[01:48:36] naturally in many ways instead of just yeah I got away from me or I don't have time for this

[01:48:43] or that or I only have time to work while I am time to you know it's a ground.

[01:48:50] I mean yeah I can't tell you the number there are times where I wake up and I just not motivated

[01:48:56] and I feel I need to just veg out and I can't I can't rub two sticks together to start a fire

[01:49:03] and I hate those moments but when I find something that clicks in my head or I put that pen on paper

[01:49:14] and that line starts screaming at me that's when the fire starts and I'm I find that

[01:49:22] drive and everything starts clicking and that's how I find that time and myself.

[01:49:29] I love that and I anyone else knew I best that I didn't have an answer or they're just like

[01:49:37] I don't know I'm stressed you know now time to stress so I'm gonna have time to stress

[01:49:44] there was a time when I used to have panic attacks and stress out who wants that yeah

[01:49:52] after dealing with that and understanding what the doctors are telling me again it all comes

[01:49:58] down to the fight that you need to fight. I'm at that point where I am trying I'm trying my best

[01:50:07] to not waste my time fighting fights that are not worth fighting. I'm all about being creative

[01:50:15] and having fun and enjoying the moment you know we started again. You right now I'm enjoying it

[01:50:21] because I'm getting to express thoughts that are running in my head and being cautious not to say

[01:50:27] anything that's going to create unnecessary waves. Yeah and I said it until you straight up before

[01:50:32] this is about but we're not talking about just all the other people who are working on it.

[01:50:37] At the same time I'm having fun talking with you and expressing what's going on ahead

[01:50:43] to my best ability and that's it and once we're done I'm gonna probably go back to the books

[01:50:50] and down and because while we're talking I've already some ideas of rolling in my head that

[01:50:55] I'm thinking I need to put on paper real quick to start slashing before it. And talking to you

[01:51:04] we were talking about conventions earlier and that reminds me next month is Comic Con. I

[01:51:09] need to follow up on that because I really want to give I could attend the convention this year

[01:51:14] so I need to see what I need to do to make that a possibility. So my mind is game time.

[01:51:22] Putting yeah it's putting there's a bunch of pieces that I'm looking at that I need to move around

[01:51:29] and figure out and stuff and it's like I don't have time to be stressed. I just have time to

[01:51:35] put all this stuff together and figure out how to be how to enjoy life. Are you going the

[01:51:40] Comic Con? I hope to in the future. I just got a new car. But much like

[01:51:50] anyone I'm finding other ways to get out of my shell just in a post-COVID world I

[01:51:56] am going to be with this new car. I will be trying to make it a priority to travel around

[01:52:03] more state to state go to just different expos and just meet other great minds. So yeah good

[01:52:09] to locally I can meet you at one of those. Definitely and go to your local conventions. Support

[01:52:16] people are putting wealth and that's why I'm trying to travel around my dude because like

[01:52:20] I was going to a few different ones in Texas and I was just getting just annoyed by the lack of care

[01:52:28] by the event holders. How some of the celebs were leaving their panels early.

[01:52:35] Or they were VIP lines so I'm like so in other words you're just standing there for one to

[01:52:41] hours but you're not interacting. I hate it. That's a good change in but I'm going to give you a

[01:52:48] recline or rage. But yeah when we used to do those I came up with one that was outright rejected because

[01:53:00] it dealt with the politics of celebrity. Going along with what you just talked about it drives me crazy

[01:53:10] with celebrities and people from that world coming into our space. And I said very clearly our space

[01:53:22] because I've been going to conventions a long time. I met my first girlfriend if we can come

[01:53:28] it can be there. There you go. Come and come and thank you. Before come and come was on anyone's radar

[01:53:36] I have my old badge. I was going to come and come. Since you're not familiar with San Diego

[01:53:43] I tried to describe it. The convention center has a basement of parking lot underneath it

[01:53:51] and back in the day when come and come was for us I was able to drive up to the convention

[01:53:58] day of and parking the basement of the convention and go upstairs and enjoy the convention. But

[01:54:07] over time that change and I had to start parking at the Latinx door to the convention center

[01:54:14] because the convention center parking lot was full. That's she's I am family and San Francisco and

[01:54:23] it's ways you're parking there. It's just the hills and everything that I can probably

[01:54:29] go put your car but man I can't imagine just what the garages are full.

[01:54:37] There was a hotel right next to the called the gas light. Literally next door to the convention

[01:54:44] center. That's where I always got my room book. I can book it. I can actually drive in on

[01:54:52] and get the room books because I didn't know it. No need to look for advance because that was when

[01:54:59] we went to the convention. We were able to go day off get our room book for the weekend drive

[01:55:08] under the lot, the building but over time it evolved and it got bigger and bigger and what I noticed

[01:55:15] is that a lot more people are going to the convention shouldn't be there quite honestly and I

[01:55:22] pull out celebrities. I'm sorry, a lot of them should not be at our convention. They don't belong

[01:55:30] there. It's a money graph. There is simply there to take money out of our pockets. They do not

[01:55:45] matter and allow themselves to be disrespected on that level because I can't tell you a number of

[01:55:52] times I've heard people say stuff. It's one thing about you and me like I was saying earlier

[01:55:59] we're racking on each other at the convention but does it goofy or something but it's another

[01:56:05] thing when one of these celebrities start racking on us because they mean it with venom and it drives

[01:56:11] me crazy that these folks are pushing us out of our space and dictating now starting to dictate

[01:56:20] our space to us. It's like having someone come into your house and put their foot up on your freaking

[01:56:27] coffee table. Thank you. You're more control and tell you this is what you're going to watch.

[01:56:32] In your own house. I know Comic Con is a thing that these guys created to make money and

[01:56:43] it grew and they want to make as much money as they can and stuff but somewhere along the line,

[01:56:49] they lost perspective on who just thing what this thing is about in your freaking name is this

[01:56:59] Comic Con. The fact that you have this huge hall and less than a third and I mean literally less

[01:57:07] than a third. It's not a third. It should tell you there is something fundamentally wrong

[01:57:13] what you're doing at this point. And yeah so you're talking about celebrities coming in,

[01:57:20] they're occupying space and it's driving me nuts and I spoken with friends about this and they told

[01:57:27] me chill out on the internet. I'm like, I'm the regular kind of rage about that at one time but

[01:57:34] it was this for obvious reason but on the brightest side of all of this there is a place where

[01:57:43] I think celebrity does work and that's Dragon Con in Atlanta. I've heard nothing but great thanks.

[01:57:49] Especially you do know Frank Connor Mr. Science Theatre.

[01:57:53] Uh, TV's Frank. Oh no, not okay. Yeah, no so he's TV's Frank on that show but he's also gone

[01:58:00] on to be a movie rougher and right for shows like Drew Carey and Vader's down and cool.

[01:58:07] Right in the teenage wedge but yeah no every comedian and talent I know who's got a dragon

[01:58:13] Con is pretty much always had a great time there so that's awesome that you're going to be part of

[01:58:23] this as to gamblers. Oh, sure. You know forget Comic Con if you have to do one of the other

[01:58:30] Dragon Con hands down not even a second thought about it head out to Atlanta. You're going to

[01:58:36] have the best freaking time of your life because there celebrities who attend Dragon Con got to

[01:58:42] love the fans. They they are not there. Oh, grabbing a fast buck because it's an environment that is

[01:58:51] heavy cosplay and it's it's it's very clear what you're there for to have fun and mingle.

[01:59:00] And if you're simply there to have to grab make a fast buck off of the fans,

[01:59:05] you're going to be miserable because it's not going to work for you. You have that's that's the only

[01:59:10] environment where I've seen celebrities or encounters celebrities and they're they're they're interacting

[01:59:19] with the fans and it's not about just getting money. I remember one one year and then

[01:59:25] pressuring you sign this just so I can go home. Exactly. It was one year went out there.

[01:59:31] There was the hard rock cafe at night a group of us we went in there and we started dancing on the

[01:59:37] dance floor and next thing I knew members from the cast of that TV show that sci-fi show

[01:59:45] Yurika. Oh, my god and two of the women and one of the guys don't remember his face.

[01:59:52] They were right down dance floor dancing with us. This is dragon. This is dragon. This is what dragon

[01:59:59] is. Another year a friend of mine I was with told me he's going to this party and we went

[02:00:09] up to the room and it turned out it was people from stock trap. The boy is Voyager and the next

[02:00:16] generation and a couple of other celebrities were in a room and they were party and stuff and

[02:00:24] they've had a few fans in there mingling and part this is dragoncon. Dragoncon is the place where

[02:00:30] celebrities go to get out of celebrity. Con and all these other places is where did they go for

[02:00:38] quick hash grabs. But if you want fun and really enjoy the moment and be who you are and nerd out

[02:00:48] dragoncon hands down that's not a promotion that in payment I wish they would because I would be

[02:00:56] able to afford to go out there again. That's the convention that's the convention hands down. Dragoncon

[02:01:03] is the place. If you're into nerdism and you love sci-fi and you love fantasy and you love everything

[02:01:14] dragoncon hands down no question it's like hammer on the table it's over. You could debate

[02:01:21] all you want dragoncon is it. Good love it love it love it. And you've been fortunate to also

[02:01:32] go to other places like the anime con and Los Angeles for about five years now. Nice. Yeah they're

[02:01:43] fun they're fun but they're not dragoncon. And I'm sorry that you can't compete. None of these

[02:01:51] conventions can compete to dragoncon. I mean dragoncon is a different type of beast. I mean once you

[02:01:59] want you will you understand it's not it's unlike anything you've ever been to. It's a weekend

[02:02:07] that you will not forget. Well I will say I had a great time man this was a fun and fun into

[02:02:15] it. Absolutely and you gave out of a voice to just the underdogs the ones who are still

[02:02:23] staying relevant in different areas different entertainment avenues and the whole

[02:02:32] no such thing is quit like you determined your day-to-day existence it was it was very

[02:02:38] engaging. Thank you yeah that's my final word to your listeners. Have fun doing what you do just

[02:02:48] be the best at it don't let the small stuff. Don't sweat the small stuff. You know stay true

[02:02:55] to who you are and enjoy life don't don't don't don't fight the battles that don't need to be fought.

[02:03:02] There you go. Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. The podcast is available on

[02:03:15] popby Spotify. I heard radio, anchor, Apple and anywhere else podcasts are available feel free to review

[02:03:22] our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening.