Nerding Out Week: The Villains of Robocop Special (with Filmmaker Jack Bennett)

[00:00:06] It's a Jacked Up Review Show Heyo! Got Indy, Filmmaker, and Columnus and former placement Jack Bennett on the show. Former placement? I used to work for the police but I was always a civilian. But that's actually, that's pretty interesting that you bring that up.

[00:01:01] The Columnus part, I definitely contributed a lot of interviews and articles and things like that throughout the years. Well, but that's the weird part too is that a lot of it was online and that was like two generations of a lot of those companies ago.

[00:01:16] Like before Corey bought Famous Monsters and before the current owners of Fangoria. Just like in both of those cases that's two owners ago, two completely different staffs ago. Re-distributing, Reeve. Yeah. So I think some of that stuff you can't find.

[00:01:33] Like I have PDFs of everything but I think a lot of it you can't find. I don't think you can find my eulogy to Dan O'Bannon. But then a version of that got printed in a book that I wrote an essay for out

[00:01:46] of my favorite horror movie that a producer named Christian Ackerman, a film producer edited and produced a series of books called My Favorite Horror Movie. And he basically got all the creators he knows to contribute a chapter.

[00:02:02] And it wasn't even necessarily this is my favorite horror movie because some people actually got real strange with it. Nice. And just picked something. You know what I mean? Like they picked something and be like well I'm going to pretend this is my favorite

[00:02:13] horror movie and really make a case for it. I picked Return Living Dead and it was for the most part a reprint of a eulogy I wrote for Dan O'Bannon when he passed away that got posted on Fangoria.com and I sort of blew

[00:02:27] it out a little bit but I remember when I talked to Dan O'Bannon about it she was like oh yeah I remember that. So at least she saw it. But yeah that was all that's- You got something back. I got some good feedback.

[00:02:41] They used to encourage us on Fangoria.com to engage with the fans but what that meant was if someone makes a shitty comment you make a shitty comment back and I was encouraged

[00:02:52] to do that and I made some enemies who became friends many times on that because it would be enemies in the comments and then friends in the direct messages. By the way can we curse? I just realized I dropped it. Fuck fuck fuck fuck. There you go. Cheers.

[00:03:09] Your grasp of languages. That's so intelligent I know. Oh man so I figured I have you on a two-parter just to talk about we're interested in like two different specials and tonight we're talking about the Robocop villains.

[00:03:29] There's been all kinds of jokes including how many of them have been on Twin Peaks and Star Trek. Oh yeah. There's been all seasonal villains or opposing forces on the show 24 because there's a lot of crossover there.

[00:03:43] A lot of times look to the casting directors because you start to realize you start to say things like why does a guy from Better Call Saul show up on the new Twin Peaks and

[00:03:53] the answer is same casting director so a lot of it's that but I also think David Lynch is a big B movie fan. Oh absolutely. Yeah like some of the people that he would cast you know Ben Van Horne and Russ Tamblin

[00:04:10] being from West Side Story Aside then you know you've got David Patrick Kelly and oh for fuck's sake I'm so sorry. I just want to make sure I get these guys names right. Yeah David Patrick Kelly and the guy who played Connell Cochran was that.

[00:04:35] I think it was Miguel Ferrara I think. Miguel Ferrara also that yeah it's so the guy played Connell Cochran and Halloween 3 who was also the old man in Robocop and he's on Twin Peaks. Oh hurly yeah yeah.

[00:04:47] Yeah there you go hurly there you go and then you got Miguel Ferrara of course MVP of Twin Peaks and I would argue one of the one of the contending MVPs from Robocop. But would you consider Miguel Ferrara's character a villain? He's sort of the yeah.

[00:05:04] More like a fall guy kind of like just someone who is just a look at him like one of the henchmen in Die Hard where he's not trying to fuck things up but he's still a Birkin directly helping.

[00:05:19] Yeah he's on the wrong side and he's definitely a shark. He's like Ellis in Die Hard actually. He's like Ellis in Die Hard but there is a character in Robocop 2 who should just have tattooed on his forehead we never should have killed Miguel Ferrara.

[00:05:36] I think what had happened was Miguel Ferrara was cast to play the Ellis in Die Hard you know cannon fodder character and he's so good. He's so good you watch that movie his choices are so incredible that it becomes like the

[00:05:53] character elevates past who's supposed to be the big bad in the first place. Right. Which is Ronnie Cox but when I think of Robocop and I think of villains I think of Kurt Woods Smith I think of Clarence...

[00:06:09] Yeah nini nini nini nini nini nini nini nini and all of the things about that performance I don't Paul Verhoeven and actors I kind of I don't have a sense of the approach but I do

[00:06:20] feel like Verhoeven is a bit of that he's got a streak of that Ken Russell sort of on font TRIB kind of I don't mean his actions but I mean more the chaos and the creation

[00:06:35] and the throwing and the you know throwing the artistry into let's face it the great thing about Robocop is that it's in it's a it's a two level movie. It's like two lines that are parallel to each other that work in tandem and those two levels

[00:06:51] are it's a Christ allegory that's a satire on the military industrial complex that's a social criticism of the way that people vote against their own interests and the way in which corporations have taken the place of citizens in terms of importance and and

[00:07:10] it's all of those things and it's got an elegance and a deep deep socially critical edge to it. Also it's that movie where that Robocop shoots a guy in the dick. Yeah well I'm going back to B movie I mean Verhoeven much like Cronenberg and

[00:07:27] right. So many others Romero he just uses this format to create a bigger picture and so yeah Wes Craven certainly was was Craven. Well I got who took the language of horror to make statements about humanity.

[00:07:41] You know absolutely and a lot of people are it's kind of almost a Star Wars Terminator thing where people are you know blown away by the dialogue or the action and everything but it's pretty clear who's actually looking at it

[00:07:54] deeper you know as you know film buffs like I've seen it a million times and realize OK it's well it's not it's not it's no slouch there's plenty of material that is bigger than you know it doesn't have it's not asking to win

[00:08:08] awards but it is also it's not a one trick point it's very deep this whole world. And I hear that and I and the thing that I love about it that I think makes those movies what they are is that they can simultaneously be art and

[00:08:23] cheap seat entertainment. They don't like you don't have to have a college degree in critical analysis to watch that movie and enjoy it. But if you do you can watch that movie and enjoy it. It's a movie that is it doesn't insult your intelligence while giving

[00:08:40] you all the requisite thrills. That's why a movie like that and that's why you know some of the John Carpenter movies and the David Kroger movies and the Romero movies like at their best these are movies that are in no way attempting to be mainstream palatable.

[00:08:56] And then go there is and yet there is artistry to them. And yeah, I aversion had so much working against it. You know, it's a miracle any of these movies have been made. And much like Neo and the Matrix, I was kind of cool with what they did

[00:09:10] with RoboCop because I mean you see the worst thing that could possibly happen to him happen at the beginning act. He gets his ass kicked. He's rehabilitated and so you're like, see, but now I'm already ready for his line because this isn't taking this move.

[00:09:27] Either movie already sets you up for this is not going to be an easy way out for this protagonist. Yeah, Joseph Campbell, did you say? Did he say what I heard? He's calling. He wants some residuals. The heroes, what the what's journey?

[00:09:43] Yeah, and that ability for those movies to have sort of art in the corners. And and there's I've quoted him a lot lately just as I've been developing my own stuff, but there's a very, very nice guy who was a very successful

[00:09:57] producer named Craig Perry, who's out here in LA. And he produced. Yeah, hi, Greg. And he produced the final destination movies and he also produced the American Pie movies. And I went to a screening of one of the the last final destination movie

[00:10:12] or the most recent one, I must say. Part five, I think. Yeah. Yeah, final destination. The bridge scene. Yeah. Well, what I was really interested in was the way in which it was almost subtle the way in which the fifth movie loops around into the series

[00:10:30] in such a way that if you hadn't seen the first final destination, you would have missed it. But that doesn't take away from the effect of what you're watching. There's people in there who are like, oh, my God, I almost died again.

[00:10:41] And it doesn't make sense unless you've seen one of the earlier ones. But that's the thing. And that's what Craig said, is that it actually does make sense to someone who hasn't seen the other movies. It works on its own.

[00:10:53] But if you know the other movies, it ties into them, which is I asked him, I was like, where do you find the brahmer on that? We were just chatting after the movie. And I said, where do you find the line for that?

[00:11:04] And he said, put all your fan service at a frequency that only dogs can hear. And I see. Right. And what I took from that is make sure that what you're doing is working on the level that it would work on, like working on an emotionally resonant level

[00:11:22] where it's as entertaining and as impactful if you haven't seen the other movie or you don't understand the reference. However, if someone gets the reference, it expands the whole thing for you. I'm looking at him now.

[00:11:35] Holy shit, he's been with the whole franchise as well as American Pie. I'm like, man. He couldn't have been to a nicer guy is a great dude. But that whole but that whole idea of the movies that work on different levels,

[00:11:46] like the ending shot of Robocop makes me cry. I love it so much. What's your name, son? And he says Murphy in that very like any smiles. And then the movie says Robocop. Yeah. It's the perfect kind of one up.

[00:12:07] That's like filmmakers are both, you know, giving you a happy meal and then telling you fuck you behind your back at the same time. Like it's just it's a perfect porous satirical film and is like give the audience gratitude.

[00:12:19] And then the ones who like I've seen it a million times are like, I see what they did there. He still doesn't realize his life is alive and though he survived now and in the villains. That's a cynical view of it and which I don't think is wrong

[00:12:31] because it's such a black, blackly comic movie. It's an insane movie. But there's another view of it, which is the robot is claiming his humanity. You know, he's and he's he's a human being at his core. He's not a robot. He's a cyborg.

[00:12:45] He has he has human memories. He has maybe even feelings, which is where that little smile comes out. Absolutely. I love this. The TV show got edited together into a Rift tracks feature recently. They just took some clips and decided to add their commentary to it.

[00:13:02] I'm going to check it out. Was it Prime Directive or was it was it? No, no, the 90s TV show that Phil is so afraid to sell from any other procedural at the time. This is basically just yeah, but I'm glad you brought up Prime Directive.

[00:13:15] I'm actually a fan of Bone Machine despite trying to win Davies from Cube Two and Forever Night really hamming it up. The other pixel character I think is just interesting because it's kind of almost like Kane, who I think is kind of one

[00:13:31] of the few highlights in Part Two where and all the effects like all the Phil Tippett motion. Absolutely. Robo Kane was cool as a Paul Tippett creation and just kind of how he's a Phil Tippett. Yeah. Yeah, reimagined Phil Tippett created cyborg character with only a human brain.

[00:13:50] And here I like how this guy he's kind of reminds me of kind of a dentist hopper and speed kind of guy. Just just X cop real shit bag and just, you know, somehow we found out how to use his resources.

[00:14:04] If you can get past some of the questionable art direction, I think that that shows just do for a rewatch just because it's a very laid back just Sunday night excitement. I would have read with a franchise gone that way versus. Sure.

[00:14:17] Well, it got more comic booky, right? It got it. Yeah. And then it became a really awesome comic. That's exactly. Exactly. Like, I think that's why Frank Miller wrote the I think he wrote the third movie to he definitely wrote the second one.

[00:14:30] And but at least he got to recreate his vision in comic book form. But isn't it ironic though how he doesn't always seem to be in on the joke given his latest radical comments, which is so funny because Robocop is totally stating about all the, you know, yeah.

[00:14:47] Robocop's in on the joke. Even though even the remake with Jacky Earl Haley is the right hand Maddox and Michael Keaton as the main baddie. They're pretty much a Blackwater company, but yeah, it's still it's finding the equivalent of the original movie rather than just kind of recycling

[00:15:05] the original movie. I mean, I wasn't I wasn't really a fan, but I can see the nobility in taking the premise and what was sort of being being informed by Iran Contra and Reaganomics and all that kind of stuff when they made the original Robocop.

[00:15:20] And how do we apply that to Afghanistan, Iraq? And like you said, Blackwater and all that kind of stuff is there's a nobility there. But I do remember very much so an episode of Harmontown where Dan Harmont was railing against the idea of remaking Robocop.

[00:15:39] And part of what he was saying was the whole point of Robocop is you don't expect it to be good. You expect it to be some dumb movie about a robot. You can terminate or knock off.

[00:15:49] And then yep, and then and they probably even produced it thinking that too. It really were. Yeah, like whatever, man. The guy like John Davidson, Ed Neumeier, Paul Verhoeven, like the end and the other writer who I'm Michael, something on Blankham is Michael Minor. Yeah, Michael Minor.

[00:16:06] There you go. Those are part of the picture, ironically. I don't know why I'm like it seems like he has a voice. Yeah. And I think that he actually is responsible for a lot of what's good about Robocop as well.

[00:16:18] Like I don't think that he was a minor figure then. Oh, totally. Ed Neumeier, I wish would do more too. I mean, oh yeah. And so let me really. That's right. Yeah, there you go. So this is clearly part of the Val Verde saga

[00:16:33] as part of the Terminator connection. I don't know if you ever heard of that universe. Oh, yeah, of course. OK, yeah, those who don't know and who are tired to be talking about it. Maybe maybe it means Green Val.

[00:16:45] Yeah, it's already a plot hole in terms of the country. But yeah, it's the country from Predator die hard to and Commando. And it's so funny. It's awesome. All the connections you can make to Blade Runner, all the other alien and Predator as well as Bows star

[00:17:03] Calactica even. Sure, Commando. Yep. That's where it first appeared. But so. Do you feel given the Verhoeven, Numanar connection that total recall is somehow tied in with Blade Runner? But do you feel like Starship Troopers is part of this versus well with the corporations? Oh, or visuals.

[00:17:28] I think it's more likely the Blade Runner alien connection. OK. But but that being said, it's a bigger spoof movie. Yeah, but I am also basing that Justin production design and Prometheus. I think that you could absolutely go down that rabbit hole

[00:17:45] and you would drive yourself crazy because how already crazy. So it's a crazy crazier. How does Robocop exist in the same universe as Predator? You know what I mean? It's like there's you can imagine that universe and that would be awesome.

[00:17:59] But it's a little bit like when they make these superhero movies, they're all interconnected and then it becomes like why is Superman not intervening on this thing? If the world is at stake and they always explain like Superman somewhere else. Well, the Terminator's kind of kicked his ass.

[00:18:16] Right, exactly. That one. But it all. So much like saying elsewhere, this whole giant part of the earth, you could divide it into quarters, much like a giant block of cheese. Yep, it's all it's all in the snow globe being looked at by a young child.

[00:18:33] The great reference and help. Well, it's in the very similar universe. And I'm trying to trust me. I've tried as much as I could to find so many other connections to new available. You'll end up with the strings in the on the bulletin.

[00:18:45] Yeah, it was the real master. But I like a giant block of cheese because this shows how cheesy all of cinema is. But there's that. But I love I love the thing that early on in his career, Tarantino said that the characters in certain movies are real people.

[00:19:05] And then the characters in other movies are just movie characters. And I think what he said was from Dustill Dawn or Kill Bill or Death Proof are movies that the characters from Resurio Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Trumance would maybe watch. So it's like those movies are movies in there.

[00:19:24] So they're not connected, but they're movies in their universe. And I think maybe he laid off on that and he laid off on the interconnected universe stuff, although he does still love to reuse surnames and things like that. Oh, it's how late.

[00:19:35] And you'll drive yourself crazy, just deciphering his alternate universe. You're like, OK, absolutely. Yeah, I think it I think creators realize after a while that they've painted themselves into a corner. But going back to the bad guy. Insert crazy showrunner. Cough, cough.

[00:19:52] Yep. But I but back, you know, going going into the villain thing and thinking of like an interconnected universe of villains. I always think about that, about like if you could river and company take over. Yes. Oh my God.

[00:20:07] Like I want that slice of money to the dirty dozen of 80s bad guys. Right? Yeah. Groober would have to be the ringleader. He'd have to be the Hannibal from the A team, basically. Oh, there you go. Right. Right.

[00:20:23] And then Robocop actually kill Hannibal Lecter for that matter. But because of course Robocop could kill him. I don't know, man. But what's funny is there's all these other super villains who kind of have Superman type strength.

[00:20:38] But the hero is just basically somehow able to piss them off enough to where they revealed their side. But maybe there's a whole there's a whole subgenre of serial killer movies in which the people made them seem to think if you're a serial killer,

[00:20:52] that gives you supernatural powers. Right. It's set in the real world, but somehow the person can like turn invisible. Pretentious plot twist not revealed to us 10 minutes. Therefore I'm invincible until battery life up. Yeah. But I love well.

[00:21:06] I've been I love all the Cone Brothers movies, but that guy only does all that stuff in that movie because everyone else is acting so stupid. Like the cop. Yeah. Has to keep his back to that guy the entire time to get to get, you know,

[00:21:21] the drop is catching them all on their worst day. All hours of the night. Yeah. And so, yeah, it is almost kind of as that's their hitch cocking movie where it's like the most almost like even Touch of Evil. It's the most anti right life movie ever.

[00:21:40] I love Touch of Evil. When I when I think about when I think about all these these villainous characters we talk about, though, the best actors bring them humanity without subtracting from the villainy. And that's what Kurt Witt Smith does in Robocop. He he finds he's just dynamite.

[00:21:58] It's hard to I can't even imagine this not being on his resume because he has impacted this so well. But well, the 70s show kids all said that he was just he was just a treat. They would quote his movies.

[00:22:11] They would quote dead poet society to him all the time. Probably discovered. Yeah. And they would say that I think it's to for Grace said that Kurt Witt Smith would just smile. This is a terribly nice man. And he's so he's such a good.

[00:22:24] Very much like Gene Hackman, where he doesn't want anything to do with this stuff. He vets that stuff as soon as he's done with the room. He does. He's not a method guy like all these other guys who live there in her hell.

[00:22:35] And you're like, oh, dude, six months, you don't want to do that. Yeah, immersive acting. Also like Gene Hackman, he never says a thing that doesn't sound completely convincing. And when I and when you think about that in terms of Robocop

[00:22:49] and when you think about how much of that stuff is improv and him playing around. And when you think about him being a nice guy in real life and then you see the creativity involved in creating this malevolent character,

[00:23:00] it has the glee of a guy being like, well, I've never been an asshole. So let's try it out. I think of two moments in that movie in particular that really, really just melt my butter in terms of like what I'm looking for

[00:23:14] from an actor and a performance and the two and it's they're both improvised. So Kerwood Smith is watching Paul Verhoeven stage the scene and he's walking through the space and he says, and so you've got I'm going I'm going to do a version of an accent.

[00:23:28] It's not really his accent. I know that he's got a crazy accent, but you come in and you and and you come in through here and you go there and bitches leave and then you and he's just directing and Kerwood Smith is listening, going bitches leave.

[00:23:41] So then on the take he walks in and goes, bitches leave exactly as Verhoeven said it, bitches leave. And that's where that comes from. And Verhoeven's like, I love it. I love it. You know, that's you know, that's the whole thing.

[00:23:56] And then the other part, which is like that, is he has blood in his mouth, you know, because he's been beaten up. So he's blood in his mouth. Seen ago. And when they put the form in front of him to sign it,

[00:24:08] he spits on it, spits blood on it and says, I want my fucking phone call. Yes. Oh my God. I don't know if the line is a improv, but the spitting the blood on the form definitely is. Oh, absolutely. It's kind of like the usual suspects where

[00:24:27] Peter Green, you know, Zed and Paul Fiction decided, how about I flip the cigarette into Stephen Baldwin's annoying face? And that was not that was improvised, but it was just interesting to see how it's like you can't imagine these improvisations without the movie

[00:24:40] because it's just it just shows you how the writer and director is only as good as their crew. You know, if everybody's not willing to play ball, then you get. It's like any baseball game, you know, you can have a great set of pictures

[00:24:56] but and players, but if none of them connect with each other, then not really audience. And I, yeah, I got to ask you out of all of Boddaker's men. Yeah, you know, so we got Steve, you know, the Chinese gunman who goes,

[00:25:13] ah, fuck you, we got a meal. The ball gun, the shotgun motorcycle. Yeah, shotgun cocking. Yeah, we got Leon, you know, played by Quinn Peaks, you know, Ray Wise. And then we got Joe Ray, Ray Wise, Ray Wise.

[00:25:28] And I can say from personal experience is an absolute gentleman and a class act and yeah, I probably have the best career out of all these guys because he's found ways to instead of just playing demonic characters, also just play everyday neighbors and what have you.

[00:25:43] He's funny on fresh out the boat. Yeah, there's versatility there. Yeah. And then we got Jesse DeGoins, you know, as Joe, who I love how this character is kind of both making fun of stereotypes kind of loosely of African-American characters, while also a real militant.

[00:26:00] He's like, you have to wonder because there was that stretch of movies in the 80s where it seemed like every crew had a high pitched laughing like just a black dude with a high pitched weird laugh. It's like, why was that a thing?

[00:26:15] Lawrence Fishburne and Death Wish 2, you know, is just like, yeah. Where does that come from? Absolutely. These are making fun of it. It's great. This came out the same year as the weapon, but like literally all these guys

[00:26:28] are kind of like if anything Robocop is very much a more successful 48 hours where the Suze, the diehard rider was trying to add all the humor Freddie Murphy and Walter Hill wanted a serious, gritty cop thriller. Yeah. The push and pull. Yeah. Yeah. But it is. Yeah.

[00:26:45] I'm always surprised each time is like, surely there's a Joel Silver connection here somewhere. But yeah. Yeah, it's those guys sensibilities. I think if anything, somebody like Joel Silver or even somebody like Ruckheimer and Simpson, what they're really bringing as the producers is they're bringing their sensibilities.

[00:27:03] They're bringing what they want to see in movies. So if a guy comes in and says, that's great, let's make it funny. Let's make it big. Let's make it sexy. Let's make it when you have that kind of enthusiastic encouragement, that's the direction you'll go.

[00:27:15] As opposed to producer says, let's bring it back. Let's ground it back. Yeah. Come on, everybody. So I like, I don't know. But in that same way that we're talking about with Robocop, what I really love is is finding that balance where you can have

[00:27:31] quiet moments and loud moments because movies, you know, movies are like an album, you know, they're like, yes, before before 5000 points. Thank you. Not that they matter. We're not playing this line. But before the kind of franchise filmmaking in which

[00:27:47] movies became big episodes of TV shows and you're just like you're you're watching the next episode in the ongoing series. There was a time period where your movies, it was like conflicts will be resolved in two hours, you know, or maybe they won't like it's a five partner.

[00:28:03] I'm deep. Exactly. It's one of the reasons why I love going back and watching the uvra of one filmmaker and like just going through all their movies is because you see an evolution in the kind of music artists 100 percent.

[00:28:18] The whole album or did they just have those free hits and the rest was beside type? No, no, ignore. There's a joke with some of my friends that Jack only likes bands have been broken up for 30 years.

[00:28:31] But the reason is because I like being able to look at a body of work, you know, I was listening before you retort and show me an artist who's naturally evolved instead of being over marketed nowadays. Well, and then well also when I signed on to Amazon

[00:28:45] music the other day, they're like pick at least three bands and I'm like, I see one. I don't like any of these. Yeah, come on. And then you realize, OK, there you go, Prince and I like selected Prince and that was it. But there's there's that quality of

[00:29:01] there are so many movies being made right now and probably more than ever before. I mean, obviously before the strikes and everything, but there there's been a glut of movies and TV shows. There's been a glut of quote unquote content. Right.

[00:29:15] The thing is, is that when all content starts to resemble each other, that's when everything is lost. Exactly. I love being able to follow that through line of, you know, a filmmaker, a storyteller, a company, you know, whatever the hell it is.

[00:29:31] And I like being able to follow that line and it creates its own little channel and channel by which I mean almost like coming off of a river, you know, it creates a little channel that I can follow that I can swim down

[00:29:43] and I can actually make sense of this rather than like, oh, hey, let's watch a movie tonight. Now, should we choose the entire universe? Everything everything that's ever been made, you know, there's there's something to be said for the diversity of entertainment being

[00:30:02] not just like genre based, but also like I want to I want to see something that's kind of cold and hard and will leave me feeling a little drained. I want to see something that's life affirming and makes me laugh.

[00:30:13] And like on different nights, I want to see all kinds of stuff. I showed my girlfriend a courtroom thriller the other day that she had never seen. And when it was over, I said, so what direction? Like we had more time to hang out.

[00:30:24] We were just hanging on the couch with the dog and the cats. And I was like, yeah, right. It was a happy family, all five of us. And and I said after this very cold adult courtroom drama from 1989, 1990,

[00:30:37] I then said, so do you want to put on like a silly comedy now? And she said, I want to go colder. So we kept going in that direction. So it went from sort of a courtroom grown up

[00:30:50] thriller to like a like full on life is horrible kind of thriller. You know, just the where the happy ending is that the good guy shoots the bad guy and sells their soul in the process.

[00:31:04] You know, like all that kind of stuff. Oh my God, what movie is this? Do I ask? I'll just I'll give you a list later because there's so many. Oh, oh, so because I mean, I just saw the King Mutiny by William Frick.

[00:31:15] Oh, sure. Oh, did you watch that? Yeah. I told 1000 percent recommend the camera just loved all these performers. And it hit homes on the emphasis of the book, a long previous versions, which is that it makes us reaffirm what we do in all our workplaces.

[00:31:29] Is your boss a psycho or is he just bad at his job? His big ass difference. That's pretty interesting. Or is he both? That's pretty interesting. And and where do you where do you draw the line?

[00:31:40] Where do you say I don't want to be the person blowing the whistle? Where do you where do you say this is the fall guy? This is who's the one culprit. That's right. Yeah, well, they were the track of you. Who's the engineer versus who's the red shirt?

[00:31:56] You know, yeah. Oh my God, yeah. From I just got here. There's something. We'll return after these messages. If you like small town mystery, crazy news and wild history, then the Florida men on Florida Man podcast is for you.

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[00:33:32] What a guy. So there's I mean, there's something we said to for all the stuff that we're saying and we're swirling around a little bit. But like yes, we are. Pop culture of this.

[00:33:45] But the the overall principle, I think, is you can tell when somebody cared about it versus when somebody is just trying to do something. Bingo. And imitating something that came before. Oh, totally. And there's nothing wrong with derivative as long as you invested with everyone.

[00:33:58] You see these Robocop sequels and just look at the good parts. Like you can be let down by the plots becoming less satirical and more of a happy mill toy ad. But you can still enjoy Robocop's big ass gun and jet pack and flamethrower.

[00:34:12] Yeah. What are you looking for from a movie? Are you are you looking? It's like I remember when the last Jedi ended and I turned to my girlfriend said, wow, they finally made a movie that everybody is going to like. And it's like, whoops. Yeah.

[00:34:25] And the reason I said that was because I was like, oh, look, it was a unexpected, innovative kind of story grafted on to all these familiar things everybody loves. Oh, it's going to get this audience and this audience. What a great marriage of sensibilities.

[00:34:40] Oops, I shouldn't have said anything. The problem is I think Robocop didn't want to be a toy commercial, but the company wasn't in on that joke while Star Wars was definitely designed to be a G.I. Joe Transformers staying in how ironic their toys are by

[00:34:55] Hasbro. So yeah, yeah. Or Kenner, right? Right. Now I have a role. Kenner through it. Yeah, I remember all those Kenner toys I had most of them. And then also Twain Century Fox kicking themselves over that deal they made. Oh hell. How about what's his name?

[00:35:13] Oh, who did Titan, a rock and doodle and Oh, Don Blue. Yeah. How ironic that he tried to escape Disney now all his shits. That was owned by Fox is now owned by Disney. Oh, it's insane. That would be a total F you to me.

[00:35:27] I'm like, I'm trying to escape. Well, and then, you know, a friend of mine made the most recent Hellraiser movie and the executives who were, you know, who were visiting the set were Disney executives because it went. Oh, really? Yeah, because it went to Hulu.

[00:35:41] It was a Hulu. I love Jamie Clayton in it. I thought she made the role of her own. Like that regality. Yeah, she was already a fan of hers. Like if you see her on the L word or designated survivor, you're like, perfect, very laid back more.

[00:35:58] But then on Lee's performance, we're like, where did that come from? Because no one else can give you that kind of role. And I think that's kind of like on your body. Her point is like these actors are. They're literally taking out their robotic sensors.

[00:36:11] They're scanning the perimeter and deciding I'm going to go here and there and then do this. And look at how indelible and inhuman performance can be because you mentioned Terminator a few times. It's like, so Arnold Schwarzenegger is the Terminator. It's such an incredible combination of.

[00:36:28] And Dan would have overthought this and wanted to give him a page in accent. Dolph Lundgren wasn't ready yet until he became a serious guy. And Segal would have just given you nothing to work with and just said, can I just beat someone up?

[00:36:40] And you know, sex trafficker on the side, you know, it's just. But I'll, you know, but I'll also say sorry. It's OK. It's OK. I do we do reference real life primals here, guys. Sorry. There you go. Yeah. People who should be shot in the dick.

[00:36:57] Parental guidance is suggested. And Jamie and Jamie also, I'm not even suggesting that Jamie had the sort of limits as an actor that that Arnold had at that time. It for me, it's more like the way in which Jamie was able to play an inhuman character.

[00:37:17] I told Bruckner that, like, the movie basically just stops dead when she's on screen and like your heart stops. And it's that quality of it's the same thing that Doug Bradley did in the first movie of like, this is a person

[00:37:30] whose concerns are beyond our understanding and has that like he had that kind of bored aristocrat kind of quality. Jamie, I just remember the moment when she says when the guy basically reveals the double cross and Jamie goes interesting in this really in this intonation.

[00:37:47] I can't even do justice to and also the design of her make up and the design of her has been had, which which you know, my buddies did. They they found a way to sort of make this like

[00:38:01] it's like if nothing else worked about that movie, holy shit, she worked, you know, and that character works. If anything, it's trying to be kind of like all these Clyde Barker comics where it just kind of goes through the night breed world.

[00:38:15] And then I mean, if anything, this is how Pan-Ed should always be. He is a guest star. He's not the main antagonist. He's just kind of communicating the very much like final destination in a way where he is communicating

[00:38:32] that death has plans for the characters in the room. Yeah. And I think she rivals Doug Bradley and not least of all because of that by coming in and, you know, as a trans woman and someone who who has more of that quality of

[00:38:49] completely non-binary once you take away her her hair and her sexiness and her, you know, her natural beauty. And when you cover that up, yeah. And the voices is out of a specific timber and all that sort of stuff, it becomes it becomes somebody who exists

[00:39:04] outside of gender at that point, too, which is what the Senate bites would have been in the first place. Right? And this is how we got to do to make an impact, dude, because you see so many people who are still being progressive roles,

[00:39:16] but then they still when they're in a sci-fi or horror movie, they go back into the stereotype of that character must now be a victim or be killed and it's like, well, or or be treated with such kid gloves that it almost becomes like they're not

[00:39:29] they're not even in this movie because we have a plot device or we're worried about the political implications of everything this character does. We have to that's actually what I really loved about the new Evil Dead Rise is they did. Oh, lovely.

[00:39:43] Well, how they there were two there were two children in there whose whose gender were not really defined and in the family. And they were treated like anybody else in a horror movie and they were given the dignity of that, you know, of being either

[00:39:57] a victim or a monster as if anyone else would be. And it's just like there's something to that as opposed to as opposed to underlining it and saying here it is. And here's the statement we're making. It becomes, oh, look, these people are people too.

[00:40:12] And if they were in a horror movie, they'd be people in a horror movie like you know, like people are. So anyway, and that and actually one of the things I really do love about Evil Dead Rise, which a few of my friends really love it.

[00:40:24] A few of my friends really hate it. And I had a great time with it because I think any movie with Evil Dead in the title should be bananas and that movie definitely the right kind of bananas though, too. Because you see other people trying to emulate it.

[00:40:36] It's like, yeah. Yeah. Are you in on your joke or is it like maniac opera wishmaster where you can take it out? You're serious or can't be depending on your shotgun. You know, like a grindhouse. There you go. Well, that's what it is.

[00:40:52] Are you hopeful the shotgun or are you Mandy? You know, like it was different. You can. Those are in a lot of ways the same kind of movie. And I'm the exorcist or are you Sharknado? I don't know. Well, that's interesting leap. It's a leap of faith. Maybe.

[00:41:11] But I but I feel like, you know, and all the stuff that we're talking about, it's like, what's my favorite Evil Dead movie, Evil Dead 2? A lot of my friends, their favorite is the original because they like

[00:41:21] the grimness of it and they like that such a straight up horror movie. I did not particularly like the Fetti Alvarez Evil Dead. And I really liked Evil Dead Rise. I meet people who are the exact opposite opinion.

[00:41:32] And it all comes down to what I was saying before. What are you looking for from your movie? Do you want to be surprised or do you want to have your expectations fulfilled? Do you want the movie to be something that never would have

[00:41:42] occurred to you or do you want to be exactly what would have occurred to you? You want to see the characters do only the things that you like and take away all the aspects of things you don't like. Do you want a push and pull of dramatic tension?

[00:41:56] All of these questions go into when you make a movie, you have to shut out any any expectation at all, except the one that you have as a filmmaker who is also a film watcher.

[00:42:10] So all you can do is say, well, what I would like is and then that's what you do because if you do anything else, then you're trying to predict it's like trying to engineer being popular. You know, right? This will make them like me.

[00:42:24] And then you're just like, when when has that ever worked? We all went to high school. When has that ever worked? Tell me, Cam, when is that ever work? I can't think of any. No. It's like this will make them like me. Pig's blood the end.

[00:42:42] That's just as bad as force feeding the plot in addition to all the X-bow dumb, it's just I mean, yeah, assuming the audience is dumb too. Look at Jones played perfectly by Ronnie Cox and in the old man. I mean, those guys could easily be plot devices.

[00:42:57] I mean, by bar two, the old man is literally a plot device. He could be replaced by any other guy in a suit and you wouldn't tell the difference. But yeah, those are good actors too. And sometimes it really is is the filmmaker capturing what they're doing.

[00:43:11] For a home is the kind of actor who is looking today's Wall Street how it's filled to change and these guys fail to change all the time. They just want to have a bunch of dead bodies later.

[00:43:20] I mean, these are the kind of guys you can literally do metaphors for all the other assholes in the world who are testing out products on pets or just putting other shit in cereal that's going to give your kid cancer.

[00:43:34] You know, I had no idea you're such an activist. You should. I just did your podcast. There's a lot of social commentary here in these movies. You know, it's almost a cousin of the stuff. What's in your food?

[00:43:47] Yeah, or you know, or Dawn of the Dead, the way that the dead, the original John the dead and protect those. And those especially in part three that they send big people from their houses. Yeah, yeah. There's an imminent domain.

[00:44:00] Yeah, those are literally the same shoot on site assholes and play runner and Donna the dead. Yeah. And that and that too. The demolition man cops. Oh my god, demolition. Like when I have the right to be frozen. I saw that in the theater.

[00:44:17] And we had a blast. Yeah, no, I was I turned 45 this year. I was born in 78. So by the 90s, I was going to see. I applauded you, dude. Oh, thank you so much. But here's the other thing.

[00:44:29] I was going to see R rated movies in the theater probably when I was like a 10 or 11. I remember seeing. Who brought you? Yeah, I remember seeing John. No, who brought you? Oh, who brought me? Oh, I thought I'm sorry. I thought you gave me an Irish toast.

[00:44:45] Who brought me? I think it would depend if I was with my little brother, my mom would just drop me off and we could get tickets. That was the thing. This is outside Washington, DC. This is northern Virginia. And this would be in the. It's fine.

[00:45:02] Yeah, it's fine. I remember seeing married to the mob, the Jonathan Demi movie in the theater with my little brother. And Nancy Travis is the first naked woman I saw in a movie theater like projected on the screen. And then years later,

[00:45:16] I talked to a friend who was working with her and she said, oh, I have to introduce you to she would love to hear that, you know, something like that. And so that was 1988. Maybe it's the movie he made right before Sunset Lamb, so maybe 89, maybe 90.

[00:45:32] So I could have been older than 13. And I would have to look it up to see exactly when that movie came out. And nobody stopped me from buying a ticket. I bought a ticket to 9 Round Street 5, you know, that was 89. And so he.

[00:45:45] Yeah, it was just, I mean, you could say it was a different time or maybe it was the area I lived in and there was the multiplex down the street up there in Alexandria, Virginia, and we would go to those movies all the time.

[00:45:55] And I went to Pulp Fiction and bought the tickets myself and I would have been 15, I was 16 years old. So yeah, so we we went and bought tickets for Pulp Fiction. My best friend in high school and I and we were 16 years old and we saw that

[00:46:10] movie on Friday and we saw that movie on Sunday at a matinee. And we saw the movie on Sunday night. That's the one of the few movies I can think of that I saw in the theater three times over holy shit.

[00:46:20] And all three times just me, 16 year old, no, no adult accompaniment. And I turned out fine. I mean, we all have it. I didn't even know twisted at all. But by the time, by the time you're a team, you might as well let people do what they want.

[00:46:39] But now there are certain movies you probably want them to avoid like more graphic war films or stuff that's just going to give them too many nightmares. But at the same time, you're going to see some of these movies modified on TV

[00:46:51] or I don't know why parents are even like, oh, you can watch some of the violent, you can't watch porn or you can't watch this or rated comedy. It's just like, well, it's all the same. It's just a matter of it's like playing a video game.

[00:47:04] Are you playing it with other people or are you playing it by yourself where you have no reference point and are going to start doing socially unacceptable? You're absolutely you're hitting on what I think about it because like yeah, in isolation, because that's the thing.

[00:47:16] I wouldn't watch violent movies and say I can't wait to do this in real life. You know, I was violent. I was watching violent movies as sort of an exorcism of my own violent fantasies. It was the dark playground I could play on. Some people don't have that.

[00:47:29] And I credit my parents with giving me a moral context to apply to all of my life. So it became it became less about we have to hide these ideas from him and more about we have to let him know what's important.

[00:47:45] So when he's hit with these ideas, he'll be able to and then that's that's the other part. Take a big step back. And I quoted my mom in this book that I that I contributed a couple of chapters

[00:47:57] to I quote my mom as saying, I even wrote in the book that she would deny ever saying this. And then recently she's like, no, that sounds like something I would say. I remember exactly. I remember her saying to another parent in front of me,

[00:48:11] I just don't want them seeing these stupid violent movies where the good guy is the guy who shoots the most people and all this stuff. She didn't want us to see Schwartz, Nager. You know, she didn't want to see Bruce Willis in Swastisland.

[00:48:22] That's the stuff she didn't want and wants to see. She's like, I just hope my children go through their entire lives without ever killing somebody. Pause. But I do hope they eventually have sex. Though my mom didn't care.

[00:48:38] Stop. She wasn't she wasn't trying to encourage us to watch sexually explicit stuff, but I do remember her not exactly. Education gives you good ideas. She didn't encourage it, but she didn't necessarily police it. So there were there were moments and in that same book, I quoted this.

[00:48:55] And we see that some kind of dialogue because I see other people. I'm kind of now I see people are just plain bad parents. Like they just want their kid to watch a stupid cartoon and not ask them questions while they have time off from work.

[00:49:06] I'm like, see, that's you might as well just have them looking at that cell phone and you're not even in the room because that's not interaction. Do you have children? I do not. I do. I don't know if yous and nieces and yeah, yeah.

[00:49:19] You know, I love I love my nieces and my nephew, but we all are getting married next year. So he's doing congratulations. One must lose her in the family. My brother's going to get married soon as well. My younger brother, who knows to your brother.

[00:49:33] Yeah, thank you so much. But it was to you. You're doing something right. Hey, well, yeah, no, I just celebrated my sixth year anniversary with my lovely partner, yeah, high five and she's and she's the best. But the but the we have to realize that we are absolutely

[00:49:52] armchair coaches when it comes to criticizing how people are raising their kids. We're the guys at home on the lazy boy telling, hey, if I was coaching that football team, it's like, yeah, we have no idea what it's actually like. We should not be criticizing these.

[00:50:06] We can we can say you and I can say, you know what's wrong with these parents, but we should maybe just keep that to our we shouldn't do it on a podcast is that we're going to be on the bar after we win the game. There you go.

[00:50:20] We're such a bad parent. Your coach is more of a dad than you ever were. Yeah, yeah, they're playing they're playing the best game that they can. And then we'll hit the bar later and be like, oh, I don't know about the team this year.

[00:50:35] Did you see did you see how one kid was doing in Taekwondo? I don't know. So anyway, so just let's just pull a cigar where we just give them the black belt just because we're having a bad day and we wanted to go away.

[00:50:47] Two cigar references in one episode, you know, he needs to be shot in the dick. Cheers, man. Cheers. So. I would have liked to have seen what's his face. That one asshole, the various Japanese androids, the Otomo's, I think they would have been

[00:51:11] perfect villains, but unfortunately they're mixed with the red shirt DNA where they're very bad at slicing and dicing with a sword, even though Robocops not getting up right away. So that's the that's the robot ninja in the third movie. Yeah, Rip Torn's the main executive here.

[00:51:25] There's a lot of missed opportunity here. Yeah, I got to ask. I know Fred Decker a little bit. I got to ask him about working with Rip Torn. There's there's our rated kid, which was a mystery to me growing up because I saw Robocop two on TV.

[00:51:38] So I didn't realize, oh, Gabriel Damon, that one Star Trek guest star. Oh, he's actually curses in the movie and yeah, I was on drugs. I remember reading the comic book of Robocop two and his dying words were,

[00:51:52] you know, you know what's like to die or whatever it is. And Robocop says, yeah. And he says it really bites. And then I watched the movie and he says that completely different. And that was because I was reading the PG rated comic book that then was

[00:52:05] the R rated movie when I finally saw it. Oh, yeah. And I think if I think back to Robocop two, which is a perfectly fine movie, it's just one of those sequels that it unfortunately is following a masterpiece.

[00:52:19] And it's a little bit like when you remake a masterpiece and you're it's like I mentioned the Dawn the Dead remake, which I like very much. Yeah, but it's a remake of a masterpiece. The thing prequel is a perfectly serviceable creature feature.

[00:52:34] If you're not comparing it to John Carpenter's masterpiece, well, it's even wilder how that one. I kind of do the Magnificent Seven slash high noon slash seven samurai mentality where they're all variations of the same thing.

[00:52:48] I mean, the thing itself is already a remake of the thing from outer space. You know, that's right. And where do we but when we think about that, the thing remake in no way is following the footsteps of the thing from another

[00:53:00] world, it's taking the same source material and recontextualizing it and and creating a new idea. And then the thing prequel is step by step following in the footsteps of John Carpenter's the thing. And that's sort of the difference.

[00:53:16] That's why the fly the 1950s sci fi Vincent Price, the fly. Yeah, that's a fun movie. David Kronenberg remakes it and it becomes a modern different chapter. Exactly. So I like the dawn of the deference.

[00:53:33] I mean, that's kind of how I am with Evil Dead 2 as a director's cut of Evil Dead 1, the new living dead from 1990 was again just yeah, doing different setting and restructuring of Romero's original cold

[00:53:48] film. So it's just like yeah, as long as I mean, look at either version of Suspiria as long love both versions of Suspiria and make a great double feature. Oh, and you brought up the new Hellraiser. Same deal. They're doing their own vision.

[00:54:04] So it is almost like watching all five versions of Blade Runner. You can pick and choose which one you want to. I mean, we talked about Touch of Evil. I mean, there's so many different movies where it's just like it's a whole

[00:54:15] different thing now that you add these extra scenes in this different context. I mean, yeah, I can't stand any of these new Disney movies because it's just an excuse to keep the license going. But I will give a beneficent credit because it was a good. It was different.

[00:54:30] It was the simplest thing in the book. Yeah, just like if you were to die hard from Hans Gruber's perspective, dude, this fairy tale from the villainous perspective instead of oh, Goodie Goodie Two Shoes is going to stop all this CGI dark magic.

[00:54:45] Like you got to have a voice instead of just look like product placement or just again, a happy meal. I was just saying to somebody today that there are certain movies that if you told me that they had been created entirely by AI, including the performances,

[00:55:01] I would have been like, yeah, no, that tracks. I think the live action Disney remakes fall under that rubric. They fed the original into the movie as opposed to the new Top Gun, which is just like beat for beat Top Gun.

[00:55:15] It's the original movie Beat for Beat, but it's one of the most well produced, incredibly spectacular movies ever ever made just from a just from a staging and production aspect. Holy shit, what a ride that movie is.

[00:55:31] I couldn't do it to recruit an ad, but I know what you mean. You know what I mean? But then that's the thing. The Top Gun Maverick or Maverick Top Gun, I can't remember the order goes in. Top Gun 2 Maverick. Top Gun 2 Maverick.

[00:55:43] It's like they fed the script for Top Gun into a Maverick. Yeah. And then the computer spat out Maverick. So in fact, up to and including the fact that I think there was a glitch

[00:55:53] where John Hamm's character, it feels like he's fighting to not say turn in your gun and badge. Is that what I thought he was just trying to say, when do I get to fly with you? No, I love with you.

[00:56:06] Right. Oh, I want to go back to Tarantino, man. Come on. It's yeah, sword fired. My mysterious is car porn. Top Gun is airborne. Yeah, there you go. Sleeping was it sleep with me? Sleep with me. Your Scientology babies. Yeah.

[00:56:22] Quinn Tarantino doing an extended monologue in the movie Sleep With Me in which he does not have a writing credit. But there's no way that he didn't just come up with that entire thing himself. I don't know how not.

[00:56:34] Yeah, I missed those days when it really was just film your friends at a party with their permission and talk to their agent later. Oh, for sure. And I well, a couple of movies were made that way that kind of didn't work.

[00:56:47] Like, I remember Noah Bombach made a movie called Highball that he took his name off of. Oh, yeah, it was like leftover footage from one of the other movies he made in the 90s and it's like, why did you do that?

[00:56:58] Actually, no, that's you bring him a good point. I didn't even think of that because all the cast kind of crossover. So I was like from Highlife kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And and Mr. Jealousy and those movies, all the movies he made pre squid

[00:57:11] in the whale. So I think that it was maybe the rap party was they were filming like low sketches and stuff because it's it's like horrible, high key lighting. And then there are jump cuts. There are actual jump cuts.

[00:57:25] So you know that they just piece this movie together. He took his name off it. But I don't think spitefully. I think it's just because, hey, this is barely a movie. So I'm not going to give myself credit on it. Yeah. But that's what it is.

[00:57:37] Like that's sort of at the tail end of our film makers, man. Too close. Well, but the 90s indie boom that which is when I was in high school and college was the 90s, I went to high school, 92, 96.

[00:57:49] Yeah, when people say indie nowadays, I just shudder like you mean? Well, yeah, exactly. It's like by not the Indian today is not the same as 90s and 80s. Well, it was always more of a brand, right? Because it becomes this is Disney's indie arm.

[00:58:05] You know, digital now. Right. It's just shot on a phone or digital and nothing against that. I'm just saying, but it's a different kind of indie now because now that the difficulty of affording film is gone, you have one barrier.

[00:58:18] Yeah, but if you can make a great movie shooting on a phone, if you can make a tangerine or put it on to be your prime, do it. Yeah. For, you know, yeah, for the love of God, do it, you know, make a movie. Do it. Exactly.

[00:58:30] That that is what I was doing when I started my career borrowing cameras and shooting movies on the weekends and just I didn't have a crew. It was me holding first me holding a camera, then me holding a camera in a boom mic

[00:58:45] when I realized, oh, sound is important. And all of that stuff was that was by that was the methods by which I learned how to be a filmmaker was by just grabbing a camera and making a movie. I didn't go to film school.

[00:58:58] And there's well, but that's but that also is like everybody does it differently because everybody learned differently. And if you go to five different film schools, you'll learn a completely different methodology of filmmaking. And it's because everybody does it differently. You find the way that works for you.

[00:59:15] I never go to the snobby ones here in Texas. I had a few different ones who were like, oh, don't make anything like Star Wars or Tarantino and don't make anything with zombies because you can't quote relate to them in real life.

[00:59:29] Well, I'll tell you I'm like having not going to film school, I believe that what film school is is a tool like everything else and what they give you, you then have to work with as a tool. It's not about slavishly following the rules.

[00:59:42] It's about knowing what the rules are so you know to break them. You know when I'm going to follow them. When you were telling me about policing earlier on, it's kind of all this alone with Robocop here. It's interesting how

[00:59:59] my father would always ask me when me and my sister were done with school. I was like, OK, did you attend or did you learn anything today? And this is good. That's a good thing to ask yourself each time just just like how you value your

[01:00:12] time and money is like, well, did you know I didn't learn shit today, but I passed the test so I can get on to the next level. So it's just like you just always ask yourself behind sight, what am I gaining?

[01:00:24] Sounds like you also taught you self respect. Well, yeah, there's because there's something to that. There's something to it's funny because you mentioned that I worked for a police department. I worked for a college police department, you know, that people will call them the squirrel chasers and obviously,

[01:00:39] yeah, and obviously being a policeman or working for the police has been recontextualized and just recently culturally and politically. But there's something to what I just said about film schools. It's also police departments go to five different police departments. You'll find five different completely different philosophies on law

[01:00:59] enforcement and what you learn. And I think what you learn overall, the more people you encounter, the more you learn that everybody's had a different experience, there's no one way that is the way everything is new. This is the way. Right. Yeah.

[01:01:15] Anybody telling you that is probably a cult leader. They're probably Nazi. I stand by my original statement, a cult leader. So Nazi cult leader. Go ahead. Well, we're getting into a weird area. Texas, you say.

[01:01:35] So that mentioned your state and then end it with a Star Wars line. I'll go first. OK, Texas. You'll never meet a greater hive of scum in villainy. Outlawed town here, baby. That's pretty good. OK, Los Angeles, California. In my experience, there's no such thing as luck.

[01:01:59] And you win the Internet. Fucking hell, that's great. Mm. That's great. Yeah. No, I listen. I feel like all of this stuff too. But what I love about having this conversation and tying it back in the genre

[01:02:15] movies is that even genre movies, I feel like have to come from a place that feels honest and connected in terms of life and the human experience. He said as he's drowned out by motorcycles. And I think he was Robo was shooting a mill off his cycle. Exactly.

[01:02:33] Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. OK, so even he's a Captain Kirk intro fight song. But the arena. There we go. Here we go. Here we go. Robo's Robo was rapping.

[01:02:53] I think I was my friend, Henry, but I know he's not in the in the state right now. He's going to the body shot later tonight. Yeah. Even genre movies have to be somehow related to the human experience and can't just be derivative of other movies.

[01:03:07] Being derivative is there's nothing wrong with being derivative, just like something that's original doesn't necessarily mean it's good. And you know what? And I have the first to open up Pandora's box. It doesn't mean it's the one that got it right the first time.

[01:03:20] And I'll argue all the time that that, you know, it's on a case by case basis, because I'll have people sort of argue with me and say like, Green Day is a better

[01:03:28] band of Ramones. And I'll say you're an idiot and need to die and just shoot them with my Robocop gun. No, but like, but that but that whole thing. Limp biscuit is not toxic. Yes, it is. Anyway, go ahead. These are all opinions.

[01:03:43] Send your letters directly to Cam. No, but I. Yeah, sure. I'm the body shot. I'm the M209's first target now. It's your podcast. I'm just a guest, but the way that I the way that I see it is like there's nothing wrong with being derivative.

[01:03:59] It's just are you just imitating what worked in another movie or do you have an idea about the way movies work that you can apply to this? Ingo. And I and I feel like and of course execution,

[01:04:11] there's a term used out here in Los Angeles, which is execution dependent. Isn't everything execution dependent when you really get always? You can have the most incompetence cinematographer or five different editors fired or a director who pulled a Brian Singer and had the second unit guys come in

[01:04:29] and rescue the movies. So yeah, that whatever you get to work with is the movie everyone remembers. When you said before that thing about you, like a director has to have a great team and then also that director has to lead that team.

[01:04:45] Like there are a lot of different approaches to directing. I'm sure you've encountered it plenty, you know, when we've all heard the same stories time and again, we've just got out of vision and that was pissing everyone off making realize

[01:04:56] tough love and then there was Spauberg saying, hey, my first movie, I fucking hate working on this movie called Jaws, but I'm going to just keep my cool and ease this out. At least I won't have to talk about this horrible experience for the rest of my life.

[01:05:09] At least this won't make my career. Oh. Oops. No, there's there's something to be said for. You can have an incompetent principal, but great teachers. So well, and then you and then everybody does it differently, but then you have to find the way to do it.

[01:05:26] And you're never going to truly win over your naysayers because no, all the assumed wisdom. Look at Joe Hodgson. He's being troll maliciously on Reddit. And I'm like, well, what do you care? No one's asking you guys to contribute to this crowd funder. So don't. Yeah.

[01:05:40] And also, you know, a little cesspool saying he fucked up in his T3K. Do we noted I'm going to support season 14. There you go. And so am I. And you can't control. You cannot control public opinion. Never control the reaction of things.

[01:05:55] And then knowing that you can't control it, it's like, well, then you just have to put put your shit out there. And and trolls unfortunately want the same thing you want, which is validation, validation, attention, attention.

[01:06:07] But then it just comes down to do they even want anything and really in return? Or are they just a solace of this of just shitstorm? You know, I just feel like everything's a symptom of the whole. It's there you go. There's no we can't be utopian.

[01:06:23] We can't go through and say, well, I am selectively saying that this part of culture and society is good. And this part is bad. And the bad part needs to go away. However, unlike Robocop, we can decide who's an enemy and who can't shoot at.

[01:06:41] Well, sure, I'm just joking around. But it's seriously, it's just there's so many people who will force me to take you seriously because you bring up these serious topics. And I'm like, yeah, gosh, he makes a really good point. We aren't robots. Ta-da.

[01:06:55] I got into exercise back in the exercise this year because there's this thing called insomnia, but you can cure it if you actually get off your ass and get active every day before work. So, oh, shit, I've tried everything.

[01:07:06] Believe you, because last night I had I had terrible insomnia last night. And usually when I well, it's OK, but usually when I have terrible insomnia, it leads to me just having existential dread for hours until I fall asleep. And last night I cracked the third act instead.

[01:07:23] That's like, oh, I was like, God bless you insomnia. Now I'm ready. Cripped. Yeah. See you in the next screenplay competition. That's my title. I'm gonna incorporate it perfect. Yeah. Banana Ram, that's the banana ram a story. It's about that band. Oh, lovely.

[01:07:43] Yeah, I made I made them parallel to Beatles. Beatles are the bad guys in that story. I made that up. You know, just it's exactly this sounds like the next best thing since we're the Al Yankovic story. I love these kinds of

[01:07:57] movies that mirror your life and then add a funny twist on the reality. If you compare the weird Al story to what really happened, it's actually more truthful than Bohemian Rhapsody. Yeah. And I just love just how it made fun of so many of those

[01:08:15] tear jerkers that became Oscar made at the end when he ends with a tragedy. It took him it took it one step further than walk hard. Oh, my God. That's great. So when do we start doing this? When we're going to start? We'll get into the next part.

[01:08:34] But yeah, as a whole, if you want spoof films done right, y'all, it is definitely with the one, the only Robocop. And I'm glad that Jack got to be part of this jet. I am too. It's one of my absolute favorite movies.

[01:08:53] And it's one of the movies that in this household, if the question is asked, do you want to watch Robocop? The answer is always yes. And that's yeah, there's nothing that are thanking it. I my wonderful girlfriend, I have expansive tastes and we watch all kinds

[01:09:09] of movies. And yet, if either one of us asks the other, do you want to watch Robocop? The answer is always yes. Bingo. I'm looking at my 4K steel book right now. Oh, you go. Look at you, your beauty. I worked hard for that 4K.

[01:09:25] So it was my own money. The arrow of Blue Rays great because I got the TV edits was a special feature. Yeah, that's that's actually in the steel book. It's it's a little put it out and it's like a four disc and it's got a great blower.

[01:09:36] And got the Blu-rays. Oh, so so great. So great. Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podby, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple and anywhere else. Podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites.

[01:10:01] Thanks a million for listening.