Michael Cimino's Social Class Themed Trilogy: Heaven's Gate, Year of the Dragon & Desperate Hours (with Film Critic Anthony Francis!)

[00:00:00] It has been called the most controversial motion picture of its time. It is the most talked about and written about film of the decade. Now, from the director of The Deer Hunter, United Artists presents Michael Cimino's Heaven's Gate. The story of Jim Averill.

[00:00:22] He was born into the world of the rich and powerful, but his heart and dreams were with the people. Heaven's Gate. The story of a man's love for a woman, for a people, for a land, for a spirit that would never die.

[00:00:48] Chris Christopherson in Michael Cimino's Heaven's Gate. It's the Jacked Up Review Show It's the Jacked Up Review Show It's the Jacked Up Review Show It's the Jacked Up Review Show It's the Jacked Up Review Show It's the Jacked Up Review Show It's the Jacked Up Review Show

[00:01:40] What you said about loud music blaring while people are slow motion. Yeah. In Dirty Harry they're having shootouts and chases and there might be a little music here and there, but I miss that. And look, I'm I'm I'm I don't need music to carry it.

[00:01:56] Yeah, I'm to the left. I'm also progressive. No, no, no. But I miss the days of movies where you shoot one guy one time and he falls down and you walk up and you shoot him again. Yes. You can't do that anymore in a movie

[00:02:14] or else you're called right wing. As long as it's an antihero thing. But I it seems like Tarantino is the only one who can get away with non PC. Get away with anything. And even Stallone could do it anymore.

[00:02:25] They called Rambo Last Blood a right wing gun fantasy. Well, what do you think all the others were? You idiots. Wasn't it always jingoistic? Yeah. Yeah. You're right. This is a good lead in this to me, because he was kind of bashed by his affiliation,

[00:02:41] but he never really showed any signs of, you know, making movies about his politics. No, he didn't. I mean, it was sprinkled, sprinkled in there. But yeah, maybe his female and most aren't strong, but it's pretty minor compared to other guys where you're like,

[00:02:56] man, you seem very twisted and demented and sick, you know, compared to other guys. What do you mean his female characters aren't strong? Isabel Hubert was a whore. Arianne was a. Never mind. Your mother was a whore. Now we need some. Yeah, right. Yeah.

[00:03:17] Oh, you're back in Connery going out for a bark. Yeah. Well, how did you get into the Chimino? I was thinking we could talk about his social class. Let's do it. So again, yeah, he's the Thunderbolt and Lightfoot writer. He's the he co-writes first two Dirty Harrys

[00:03:34] and then Dear Hunter changed everything. Yeah, he changed everything. I first got into Chimino through my papa. Papa. He ran a theater. He played Magnum Force. Of course, I was only three years old. I didn't get to see it, but he brought the poster home

[00:03:55] and I thought it was cool because it was an extreme close up of Eastwood and his Magnum. But I saw it on TV as a kid and then later in the theater and, you know, in a revival. There you go.

[00:04:07] My dad got me into it because or in the Chimino. When I was in junior high, he had a 16 millimeter of Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. And he had buddies over and we all went downstairs and watched it. Let's go downstairs. I like that.

[00:04:28] And real quick, just because of that movie, I was only what? 12, 13 because of that movie. I probably to this day without thinking about it, but I don't buy six pack cans anymore.

[00:04:40] But when I carry six pack cans, I always carried it like Clint Eastwood did when they got that beer and went to the water and talked about their plan. Him and Bridges. Perfect. Yeah. But that's how I got into Chimino. And what a movie to start with.

[00:04:57] I mean, yeah, I don't count that I saw Magnum Force till I was in my teens because I always saw it on television. I was constantly in all the film history books and I was just like, you're right. It was funny as it had the opposite effect.

[00:05:12] It made me want to see Heaven's Gate. So I see it in college and I'm like, it's fine. Fucks the fuss. I felt like it was kind of a water world thing where there was enough bad press going on that enough people.

[00:05:24] Because people would have focused even in the studio cut, which was messy and sloppily, you know, right. His last minute. If you would have paid attention, you would have got something out of that because there's so much going on.

[00:05:36] And to me, especially when you get to the studio, he's just kind of doing a lot of the same stuff. Scorsese and Coppola especially is kind of doing where he's people are talking while they're on a horse.

[00:05:48] They're illustrating their ethics and what they want to do in their life and foreshadowing that their dream is going to be crushed. So I was just like, OK, I mean, I feel like this is pretty straightforward.

[00:05:59] And come on, anything with Trisha for walkins we're seeing, unless it's some of the post 2000s trash. But come on, we're walking. Unless it's a comedy because he's not a good chooser of those. I got to make you laugh. Now, the best from the country. He helps to.

[00:06:20] Sorry, no, my dad. I remember we had a laser display. Yes, I'm. This is how he would introduce me to movies like Dad, I want to go buy a laser disc at the laser. And he's like, I'll get it for you.

[00:06:37] I'm like, you don't know what I want. He's like, yes, I do. And I remember one year I was 13 and he bought me the deer hunter because I was too young. And I'm thinking, Dad, this looks like the most boring goddamn thing. What? And I was blown away.

[00:06:54] I was blown away. And the older I got, the better it got. And the years go on and it truly is. I there's a lot of different political sides on that particular Vietnam movie. But I think it's beautiful. I think it's one of the most.

[00:07:13] Heartfelt so rich thing, but it all turned out. Yeah, yeah, and that coming. Yeah, right. That same year. For stuffers in connection. I love it. Oh, that's right. Which to me knows enemy Jane Fonda. Yeah, that's weird. Isn't it?

[00:07:33] I would have thought they would have both gone along given how radical. I would have. Yeah, I think. Chimino might have adjusted his politics to get projects off the ground. Sometimes he. That's a good point.

[00:07:45] I never thought about it, but he does seem to just be very chill. Kind of like in a Dennis Hopper kind of way where he says a lot of things and half the time you're like, well, okay. You know that word. You keep using that word.

[00:07:58] I don't think you know what it means. But do you have the book? Chimino that came out a couple years ago. Oh, I wish I did. It's so good. But you want to know more. Yes. Yeah, right.

[00:08:12] They talk about his producer and probably life partner but nobody could prove it. Joanne Corelli. She was the balls. She was the balls like she wouldn't she would fight producers. Price of a vision. Screenwriters and you couldn't get to him unless it was through her first.

[00:08:32] And, you know, if she's it. I don't have an example real quick but if I'm a screenwriter and I've done a movie she doesn't like.

[00:08:41] And I said yeah his new movie I think I can do and she was like nope didn't like her movie get out. You're not even going to talk to Michael, you know, she was that kind of thing.

[00:08:50] I think he used her to, to apparently to unofficial manager kind of. Yeah, to sift through all the detritus if you will. And not really that's in the back. I mean, she was the crap.

[00:09:08] To get and she, she was right. I mean look she was right every time she brought him. But then, no matter who was writing, he would always change it. Now, fight, and he would fight to have their name off of it.

[00:09:24] He sounds like the Hollywood directors get on whose line. That was crap. Yeah, but no that's wild. So it's changed so much to where he doesn't even want to give him a story credit. That's wild.

[00:09:38] Yeah, he did. He just wanted a screenplay by Michael Cimino and other screenwriters are like, it was my screenplay. He changed. Yeah, I don't. I wouldn't be my residuals.

[00:09:51] And look, the argument about him that's probably planting the seeds of the directors losing their, you know, power in a very short time they had it. Oh hell, this is my main complaint about the offer about couple is making of The Godfather.

[00:10:08] They should have ended with them saying and we refuse to do Heaven's Gate type pictures. They should have gotten to that.

[00:10:15] I would have opened up a whole new chat and said it's not just The Godfather. That was a movie they had to fight for. They had plenty of other movies they had to fight for for decades.

[00:10:23] Yeah, unforgiven was in a vault for years. Right. That was one of the, what did they call them? They used to call them something but one of the great blacklist the great unproduced screenplays.

[00:10:35] And then we see why it's brilliant. Hey, I can make another Vietnam connection from Cimino's Deer Hunter to the Year of the Dragon. Yes. Yep. Yep. I was hoping to go there. Yep. I'll get us there.

[00:10:54] We're there baby. Let's do it because I, I, whenever anyone asks me, because I'm sure you run into people, hey, I never get to talk to you. What's like a underrated movie that you champion?

[00:11:07] You mentioned this Mickey Rourke action. My number one is, yeah, I've had about nine Mickey Rourke's but my number one is always Year of the Dragon. It is the most undervalued movie of work of Rourke of John Lone, an undervalued actor. Michael Cimino undervalued score for David Mansfield.

[00:11:28] The Last Emperor. Yeah. Yep. Oh God, he's so good. So underrated, but yeah, no, that is very true because this is what I call part of Cimino's social class. Yeah. Trilogy, the deconstructing because yeah, you got Heaven's Gate.

[00:11:44] He's showing again all these ranchers farmers who ultimately it doesn't matter how they think or what, who they voted for. They want the same thing which is people not messing with their land and the American dream here.

[00:11:57] Which is spotty. It is spotty. The American dream. I believe when you... What is the American dream? Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think Cimino is saying the American dream with air quotes.

[00:12:10] All you got is, well, it's the name Heaven's Gate. All you got is your ranch and then you die. But yeah, you're the dragon.

[00:12:17] I was tempted to put it on Oliver Stone theme thing and I said, fuck it. No, like Scarface, it's Oliver Stone script, but it's a Cimino film. Right. But in a lot of those speeches, Oliver Stone is very much coming out. Right. He's fighting. He's emerging.

[00:12:32] But I think what we mainly remember is Rourke's dirty Harry type persona and the Chinatown stuff. But yeah, Stone fights it. But I think three quarters of the way it eventually becomes a Cimino.

[00:12:47] There's a new marshal in town. Me. I'm tired of all this Chinese dis, Chinese that. I got to complain about you already. You think gambling, extortion, corruption or kosher? You're only meant to shake up the gang kids. You're not special and you're not beyond the law.

[00:13:04] That is the way the game is played. I've been in the job 15 years. I know all the stories. We're Chinese mafia. My heart has been broken a hundred times. The investigation's in your mind.

[00:13:16] I've got scar tissue on my soul. You don't like it? Resign. You're a great cop, but nobody likes you, Stanley. The point here is you cease and desist. Nobody wants to win this thing, do you? You care too much, Stanley. Maybe everybody's right.

[00:13:35] I'm chasing something that doesn't exist. This is not the Bronx or Brooklyn. It's not even New York. It's Chinatown fight. It can be very easy or it can be very hard. Michael Cimino, Academy Award winning director of The Deer Hunter, comes a powerful and provocative new film.

[00:14:05] Year of the Dragon starts Friday, August 16th at a theater near you. I yeah, I like that you said Dirty Harry and I don't want people to misunderstand what you said. But but you're right on by saying that he is he goes rogue.

[00:14:22] He doesn't believe in any justice system. Yep. And only he's worse than a dirty hair. Stan White Rourke's character is a blatant racist. Yes, I like racist and I like how they don't hide it. They just oh, some of totally is like why the film didn't do well.

[00:14:41] Yeah. Who am I rooting for here? Racist. There's a imprint Blu Ray. There's a Warner Archive collection one. And what I like about all three of these releases is there's different special features on each of them. So you might as well get all of them all.

[00:14:56] Maybe. Yeah. The commentary clips from what I heard. Flip sub on YouTube were pretty awesome because they were kind of just going straight into just how he wanted the newsreel to introduce the premise versus just having a voice formulaic. You know, detective comes up saying, who's dad?

[00:15:12] You know, yeah, right. Yeah. What do we got? That's a big detective. What do we got? Yeah, they're always chewing gum, drinking coffee. I really believe that if someone asked me to list the most famous people in the film industry,

[00:15:28] I would say to list and I couldn't do it in any kind of order. But I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't. But if someone said, Anthony, make your list of 20 best make cop films ever made.

[00:15:43] Year of the Dragon would probably be in the top 10 to 12. It's just with the exception. And I'm sorry. It's easy. It's low hanging fruit here. The awful performance by Ariane as the reporter. She's terrible. She was a model with no acting experience. Wasn't she one of his girlfriends?

[00:16:06] In real life. In Chimino's. Or was she Mickey Rourke's girlfriend? I'm not sure. I don't know. He slept with everybody back then. Yeah, Rourke made the rounds. I just think it is in many ways it's unparalleled. Chimino.

[00:16:28] It's a good East meets West movie, but it's more than that. Yeah. For better or worse, Michael Chimino has a wide vision. And if you think about it, it's a New York set cop movie film, mostly on sound stages in North Carolina, by the way. It's big.

[00:16:51] It's huge. That movie is huge. Manfield score. Rourke's performance, the violence, the scope of it. Yeah, it's a New York street cop film, but it is big. Very wide shots. It's not trying to be just the next like Rising Sun, China Gate or Chinatown type movie. It's similar.

[00:17:14] But it's just it. Yeah, it's everything is bold. Every argument is big and I don't remember every backstabbing. And that's OK, because it flows just like a pulp novel. There's like, and then this happens. And now you're out of bullets or stranded. You got no car.

[00:17:32] You got to go and take down. Now the assassin who's trying to kill you has given you all the info you need. Now you've got to make an arrest. But now you've got to avoid all these other assassins. You know, this other triad war. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:17:45] I just love it. And by the way, if someone watches Year of the Dragon and says, well, I'm not sure that Oliver Stone wrote this. There's a scene where John Lone goes to Vietnam to meet with the heroin dealer in Vietnam and his name was White Powder Ma.

[00:18:02] There you go. Stone being a former nom guy. But but he he ends up spoiler alert. But you can see it coming when he when he has the next meeting with the other Vietnam guys before he leaves, he puts he says everybody's like White Powder Ma.

[00:18:21] We can't go against White Powder Ma. John Lone puts a bag on the table and pulls out White Powder Ma's head. And if you don't face moment, if you need a reminder that Oliver Stone wrote that it is John Lowe's Lone's line.

[00:18:39] He lifts the head and says this is symbolic. Let no motherless fuck ever raise their head to us. And I'm like, boom, that's Oliver Stone. I felt like turn to references it in Kill Bill. If any of you sons of bitches got any files. Now's the fucking time.

[00:18:59] That's I never thought about that. That could be his Year of the Dragon moment. That's East, Midwestern. We're going to get with their meeting. Yeah. The one guy. Blam. But no, Year of the Dragon is the biggest. It's not a movie guys. Not at all. Calm down.

[00:19:20] Calm down. I wonder if some people went to it thinking it was going to be wrong. That would have been amazing. I'm looking for. Yeah, that's the guy who tends to be Bruce Lee. Get work on the case. Work on.

[00:19:35] I miss the days of trailers where there was a narrator. That's great. I was watching some old trailers. I was watching old Canon trailers earlier. Oh, there you go. Yeah. I missed. I was watching old trailers. Yeah. Yeah. We did a HBO. Skinimax special.

[00:19:51] So we were joking about the old trailers. Where's like, remember they used to play documentaries. Yeah. But yeah. I do miss the hall of Douglas kind of stuff. And now it's just. Awful. Trans. And I hate how. Trailers now, if it's an action movie.

[00:20:07] They'll cut the music to the gunshots. You know what I mean? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. The lights are black and it's not even stylish. You're like, you just confused the hell out of me.

[00:20:20] And they cut to some of those reaction shots that you can tell they're not even in the same room. They just took it from another scene. And that's never answered. Okay. The cake is a lie, but. Okay. Yeah. So which. But no, your performance.

[00:20:33] Do you like, do you prefer him in. These later performances or do you like them a little more in the. The. The. The. The. The. He's part of the ensemble there. He's great with his little fake teeth getting slapped around. I love them in heaven's gate.

[00:20:53] Isabella hopper, like you mentioned earlier, very underused, very underrated in that sample. Oh God. Yeah. You barely recognize him saying that with Jeff Bridges. You're like. Future. You know. Great actor. John heard is the drunk. Herd probably is the scene still there. Yeah.

[00:21:07] He's a, he's one of the refugees. Yeah. That. I miss him every day. Yes. I'll miss petty every day. Not to be petty. Heaven's gate. Speaking of big and Michael Chimino and make it work. The social. Heaven's gate. Holds.

[00:21:20] I mean, I could go through Fellini and Kurosawa and. You know, Listen guys. There's so many. You don't need something. Yeah, right. There's so many great. Shots. Yeah. And. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. You know,

[00:21:37] So I think it's weird. I think it's weird, because we're all there and then we're like, you know, And it's just so weird. But when you look at the. Shots in cinema. You know, Jean Cocteau, everybody. Michael Powell. Blah blah blah. I could pal the what's his name.

[00:21:51] He did close encounters and other culprits. Spielberg. No. You mean the cinematographer. Yeah. Yeah. I was like Spielberg. What's wrong with you. I just find it so funny cause these movies are so creatures will be not known for its cinematography and so he's like, hey, everyone begins somewhere.

[00:22:09] That's true. Yeah. Um, but I put Heaven's Gate 80% of the shots up with the best shots in cinema history. I mean, it's good God. There's some striking to call this bad. I don't get it. I do not. Yeah, I can understand if it's not for you,

[00:22:30] but yeah, you have to try really hard to find the bad. I agree. And look, me and my buddy Marty Scorsese. Yeah, I'm talking right here. Yeah, right. I mean, come on. We we call it a masterpiece. And I really think it is.

[00:22:47] And I didn't know he liked it. That's awesome. He was its first champion. I really and I saw the I saw the full cut at the restored full five hour at AFI. I'm point where it is. Is that anywhere on home media because it ain't on criterion? Yeah.

[00:23:04] Now, is criterion not the full one yet? Is I thought it was the I thought it was just four hours or maybe I'm sorry. Nineteen Bertolucci's 19. I would love to see another hour. Bertolucci's 1900 is five hours. I misspoke. You're right. That is the criteria.

[00:23:21] I do love Bertolucci. Yes. Me too. But I do feel like he's part of that same coin who tracks this without seeming like he's just only in love with the sound of his own voice.

[00:23:31] I think just like any of these guys, he just pissed off too many of his ex when he should have said, I'll get it done. I'll get it done. Let's share a cigarette. You know, just something. Talk to me now. Yeah, he's just something.

[00:23:43] He should have found it. I feel like he should have done a Conan O'Brien where he convinces the producers his weird ideas. They like, yeah, instead of just telling them the fuck off. Yeah, get out of here. I want an Oscar. Yeah. Yeah. And that was his problem.

[00:23:59] He doesn't take it from anybody. It doesn't take shit and that's good. Right. But there's a point with studio executives, especially today. You you got to give a little to get a lot, man. You mentioned really earlier.

[00:24:15] I love how he mentioned on one of those Charles Band interviews that he's like, I don't see the point of assistant directors. They're basically executive directors. They're there to get all the pickup shots that aren't getting done on time. That's another thing.

[00:24:32] Chimino, the studio kept sending reps out to the Montana. He locked him out. And he eventually started. But the first few visits, he's like, yeah, and I'm doing this and where. And they're like, oh, it looks good. And he'd show them dailies and all looks good.

[00:24:50] And then when they started saying, you got to start wrapping this up, he's like, they're banned from the set. You know, you're not coming. And he would just he would keep asking for more with Heaven's Gate. That's all there is. There's 100 horses in this scene.

[00:25:04] I think this shot needs about 50 more. You know, you would just keep building and building and building. And that was his downfall with the studio. He should have just I feel like he should have done

[00:25:15] what John DeBond did with speed where he got pick up shots off the record when no one was looking or some of these other indie filmmakers where they were asking their buddy for money or put their own money into it. Just right.

[00:25:28] Sacrifice your wage and make even more later. Yeah, because I think without the bad and unfortunately, that's the first movie that got killed by bad press. Yeah, like that was the precursor to the Internet. Only rediscovered on TV, but it was too long for most TV airing.

[00:25:45] So it was always, like you say, restricted to that laser disc. Yeah, yeah. And I think that a lot of people are turned off by the opening Harvard scene, which I hey, I call it a masterpiece, but that scene could be sliced a little.

[00:26:03] You know, I guess I guess I mean, people complain about the wedding. I think the wedding's essential in deer hunters. So I don't know. The wedding wedding is great and deer hunter. I think the ice game, the roller skating. I think everyone's beautiful. Yeah. I mean, we've lost.

[00:26:19] I won't get into that. I'll be here all night. And then we did. And now on the sports. No, yeah. But but we have lost something as an audience, not we, but we we were not, you know, people would line up for, you know, last time.

[00:26:39] Imagine this last Tango in Paris was two people basically in a room and it was two hours and 40 some minutes. And it was a box office smash, a smash. And pardon. Absolutely no point. No, if you'll forgive the. Yes. But I mean,

[00:26:57] you know, nobody would line up for that now. It would get a few weeks in New York, L.A. and D.C. and it would go to streaming. You know, because and streaming. My wife mentioned this the other night. We were like taking a piss.

[00:27:13] Yeah. A bit of water. Yeah. Yeah, I'm talking. She didn't. I saw a press screening of Killers of the Flower Moon. And she hadn't seen it and it finally hit Apple. And it was a night of wind and ice and the power in the area kept going out.

[00:27:33] And we'd start it. It stopped. We'd start it. It stopped. Yeah. And it finally righted itself in the last hour and a half. And it's a three hour movie. And when it was over, I'm like, well, well. And she said, it's OK. And I'm like, what?

[00:27:51] But she said she wants to see it again sometime because it's hard to watch a movie like that that way. And my point to what you were just saying, if that's how people watch movies now when they're streaming, your your mind never 100 percent focuses.

[00:28:09] So how do you know you're taking it all in? You really don't know. That's right. That's like when people I'll text a buddy or something and hey, what are you doing? I'm in the middle of a movie.

[00:28:21] I'm like, well, then how did you know I texted when I I tried it unless I'm looking up something for the movie. My phone is turned face down and the ringers off. It only comes out during a TV show where I want to make notes.

[00:28:34] I don't mind about that. Or yeah, I'm rewatching this episode. It's two pings. If I'm watch. Look, when I'm watching an at home screen, they're all paused. But you're right. Yes, that's I mean, there are many reasons

[00:28:46] that movies like the ones we are talking about won't get made much anymore. But now that I hate to say it, COVID killed a deep movie watching. It really did. It was deep, man. It's it's awful. It's scary.

[00:29:03] I thought you just had to rip off Star Wars for another time. Yeah. But something shiny in there is deep. That's what I did. It's a deep enough burger for me to consume, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. All that red meat. Yeah. That's a good point.

[00:29:19] People don't even want the burgers and fries anymore. They just want little sliders. I want the burger with the lettuce wrap with all that may may know made from avocado. Oh, right. Oh, no, it's it's a sad state of movies like a Chino Chino

[00:29:34] Chimino wouldn't even have a you know, right now. Not but you know, I'd be great. You should have worked with the. Oh, yeah. I would love to be that. Chino could have used it in the 80s. Right after Scarface, he kind of got lost for a little bit.

[00:29:51] Yep. So let's yeah, I don't know. Let's make some sense of the desperate hours remake. Michael Bosworth has expensive tastes. Man is not a gentleman unless he knows how to mix proper. Martini, a beautiful woman, is the only person that I die for in a conviction for murder.

[00:30:08] The guy is a man. If they can catch him. Getting really angry, desperate hours. Hey, I just don't want to break up our happy family. Waited are starts Friday at theaters everywhere. There's some good elements. I'm still mixed on this. There are some damn good elements.

[00:30:31] I own it on Blu Ray. I love me Rogers. I love Roark. I love Hopkins, although he seems to be in a different movie. He is in a thank you. I was about to say, I don't think he kills the teller. But mentally connected. Then yeah, I acted.

[00:30:47] David Morse and Elias Cotillas are great. I forget again. Morris is so underused. And this is when he's becoming the Walter Hill guy on brief small stuff, kind of like Ed Harris. And you're just like, yeah, but that's that's David Morris.

[00:31:02] He is doing something, even though you would never suspect. That's the guy from all these cult TV shows and all these blockbuster movies like The Negotiator. And he's like, it's David Morris. I loved him. Morris does doesn't everybody love David Morris? I hope so. I hope they do.

[00:31:21] I hope someday he'll get a part where he'll get at least a nomination. Oh, that'll be the day. And then the Internet will say, no, no. It must go to Lego movie free. All right. I think moving free the way you the way you introduced

[00:31:38] as Desperate Hours is perfect because you didn't say so with Desperate Hours or moving on, you said, let's try to make some sense of his desperate hours. Because it's better than and that is the perfect way to say it.

[00:31:54] It's better than the Woody Harrelson movie, which I've seen many times and I want to like, but I I tried it three times and I just don't know if I can ever do so clumsy. And the Sun Chaser, it's a great cast. Michael O'Neill, John Suda, Harold.

[00:32:08] Oh, man. Even the other female bit part guys. But you just it just feels like another one where he just said and that's it. And I don't care if it makes sense. It is so heavy.

[00:32:19] I don't know if there was an editing thing or the but the Sun Chaser is definitely at the bottom of the Chimino list. Yeah. Is it garbage? I'm not sure I can't answer that one. It's not good, but it's not garbage. I shouldn't say garbage.

[00:32:35] It's not it's not the kind that you need a plunger for to eviscerate, but it is one of those you're like, I want a reedit of this. I want yeah, I want release the Chimino cut. Yeah, God. Um, yeah, I don't know what the hell. Hours.

[00:32:52] I was always I never thought that was like Top Bogart, but it was worth a watch because it was one of those good. I mean, it was good for its time. It was just one of those. It was those one of those pre dog day afternoon

[00:33:03] Die Hard and a House type movies. And this one I feel is trying to it's wild. How this came out before Ransom by Ron Howard. It feels like it's going for that same kind of again, social class everyday man threatened by violent criminals who.

[00:33:18] But that that car chase scene when he's escaping, and gorgeous fire reflecting off his eyes. How do you get a plus shot like that? And obviously I'm a Mimi Rogers head, so I'm I'm I love her in this, but I. I thought Lindsey Krause was great, too.

[00:33:36] Oh, yeah. Yeah, Miss Farmer. Yeah, David, it's a bit of a it's a bit of a strange performance from her, but it's a good one. I mean, I don't know if. She wanted to play it more reserved or. Yeah, I'm not sure what she was doing, actually.

[00:33:52] I don't think she was being given because she was more worried about how it looked, I think. Yeah, I don't know how much of this is him telling the actors what to do versus we're here for you, bud. You know, I I will say

[00:34:05] how I just praised that he's one of the last filmmakers that has that kind of visual scope. It worked against it. It worked against him a lot in the Desperate Hours remake. Yeah, sometimes it was too big and too much.

[00:34:22] I'm like, break it down all of this is an intimate thriller. No, that's a good point, because he's not. Well, he's in our top filmmakers list. I don't feel like he's like freaking where even if he's full of shit,

[00:34:36] he still makes it work because he believes in the adventure he commits. Yeah. But, you know, yeah, it does seem like there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen and I don't know how much of that is reshoots versus studios saying you can't have any more.

[00:34:49] I don't know. I don't. Yeah, that because that could have something to do with it, because even though it all plays out, it just kind of stops. But it was a perfect material for him to glass on,

[00:35:00] because much like the original, it was about criminal with a second agenda and much like the rich people who don't deserve this money. You know, it's commenting on all this stuff. Oh, yeah. He still has his message in there. But I think like many movies around this time,

[00:35:16] people were so distracted by the over the top, you know, guns pointing at each other and topless people is like, really? That's where we are now. I know a lot of people I barely met anybody that like it, but everyone I talk to like it or hate it.

[00:35:36] They all have a problem with the Kelly Lynch scene. And I'm thinking, why are you hanging your hat on that? It's one moment is to show how literally is one moment. Mickey Rourke is, you know, why are you hanging a hat on that? You didn't have any problem.

[00:35:53] I did this all the time over Hoban type stuff where. Yeah, people are so shocked by the content and not paying attention to what's going on actually going on. Exactly. Yeah, they're just they have to set work up as a creep.

[00:36:07] And he is it's a movie that whenever I watch it, I and I've seen it all the way through maybe four or five times in my life. But mind you, stretch from nine times walking load really. Now you've got it. Nine times.

[00:36:24] No, I thought you said nine times. Oh, no. Was that five? That's over five thousand. But it's not. Yeah, it's not a bad movie. I was hoping time would adjust its reputation. But I don't think it ever will.

[00:36:43] And something that scares me and a reason that I'm glad we're doing this show and I would love to do a Michael Chimino part two is yes, I think. Michael Chimino discussions that aren't about. The success of Dear Hunter and the failure of Heaven's Gate

[00:37:02] are going the way of the samurai as well, you know. Nobody talks about you're the dragon except true film heads. Nobody talks about desperate hours at all. Maybe that's how he thought in a way, if you think about it,

[00:37:16] because he was kind of like a samurai and say much people who met him said he didn't really meet much. And he was kind of guilty by just being in a bad environment. Like people rejected his politics just because like they just didn't like his face.

[00:37:32] It was just petty shit like that. And he didn't even open his mouth. And then you get to his directing. And like you say, he's just he sends him away. He didn't even directly tell him, you're not welcome here. He's just like, yeah, no, no.

[00:37:45] But the good thing that came out of that book and I've seen in interviews, the actors who worked with him love him. Yeah. Mickey Roark, even although lesser ones, everyone's like, he's very organized, very in there. So he is like a painter. And they said he was.

[00:38:04] Yeah, he's trying to paint his canvas, but a true artist. You're right. He wants to be left alone. And he yeah. And they said he worked intimately with the actors. They said nobody else could ask him a question, but the actors can. The man is kind of tricky.

[00:38:21] You would think the bridges loved him and want to know something. Yeah. Yeah. What do I do, boss? But go away. Yeah. Mickey Roark called him a brother. Everybody loved him. That's good to hear. That's some praise. Mickey Roark calls you a brother.

[00:38:36] He wants he's not going to box you. All right. Yeah, it loves me. If if Roark even gave me the side, I'd leave forever. I'd move away. I was trying to get an interview with him last year. He's he's a tough nut.

[00:38:54] He doesn't like doing I heard a recent Eric Roberts interview where he talked about how he's in a very crappy like part of a town and just like, how do you get here? Yeah. You talk about Roberts or Roark. Roberts was visiting Roark's current apartment complex.

[00:39:11] Yeah, I don't know why he let himself slip back into it. You know, he was pulled out as as Sean Penn said at the Oscars. Mickey Roark has been resurrected and then almost within a three year span, Mickey Roark threw himself

[00:39:27] back in the gutter again, and I don't know why. I think he and Jimena are one of the same. They say what's on their mind and all these guys are afraid for you to speak your mind unless you're Tarantino or Spielberg,

[00:39:39] which is true over doesn't say anything in Tarantino. That's he's kind of like a sports star that's part of his brand. Exactly. I agree. Yeah. I don't I don't know. I really don't know. It's sad. We will never see the.

[00:39:58] I keep going back to this word, but it's perfect to describe it. We will never see a visionary filmmaker like Jimena again. They're all heaven's gate, a Razzie contender. And I'm sorry, I can't even I can understand you. Yeah, I'm already sick of them because here's that

[00:40:16] they were picking on some other people. And then when they pulled back their first was, hey, when they found out his condition is like, see, you're not you claim you're helping. But you keep nominating these people who are the best things about these lesser

[00:40:30] or controversial movies, which you. Exactly. Supposedly didn't even see. You just went to Rotten Tomatoes and made your mind up. Oh, it's five percent. I got to nominate it because who else may mean? Yeah, no, I agree. Yes, it's unfathomable. I hate the existence of the Razzies.

[00:40:48] That's a whole and it's started because like as far back, I want to say is 97, they were still kind of. Clever, like worst on screen couples to go on his guitar and, you know, on deadly on fire down below that's funny.

[00:41:02] But then you get all this other shit and you're like, how are they the worst thing about that movie? Exactly. I used to look at their nominees every year. I don't even look at screen. Oh, it's bad. Like, it's pretty much post-Twilight 50 Shades.

[00:41:15] They just went for like anybody whose face they literally don't like. But like, yeah, I when I when that guy came out and he still hates the palmin's alone to this day, it's like you saw them on a film set.

[00:41:27] I don't think you clearly don't know what goes into a movie. Exactly. I don't. Yeah, I don't. We're in a culture now where they have ego. So therefore they must be they must suck. Yeah. OK. That's what does that mean? Exactly. I don't know.

[00:41:45] The current culture is crush it. You know, you make snap snap. Yeah. The current snark snark. So you kind of did it actually. No, that's that's just the current way. Let's let's knock it down. Let's tear it down. And what I what I hate hearing.

[00:42:05] Hey, did you hear long how long the new blah is? I don't care if it's good. I won't notice. Yeah. Excuse me. Remember the days where you read something like Gettysburg from the library? And there you go. Insert tape to. Yeah, good. Good.

[00:42:22] Blu Ray, by the way, I'm going to revisit Gods and Generals. That's an episode for another day. Yeah, exactly. But it is funny how we we still see now people are getting into the I had this stuff, but I don't feel like taking it out of the case.

[00:42:36] I'm like, bitch, please. You like it. You're going to take it out. Or then they get into something and leaving Netflix in 10 days. It's like you had three years. You got it. Exactly. Now you're not going to watch it because I don't want to open the case.

[00:42:54] Right. Yeah. And I still got a car CD player. So what do I know? So do I. So do I. I've got I've got serious. I've got the CD player. They say newer cars have worser safety ratings.

[00:43:08] And yet that doesn't stop people from saying, yeah, I'm sick of this car. I'll buy a cheaper, crappy China or German model. All right. Me. I mean, look, I love America, but all my shit's Japanese. So deal with it because it's better. Japanese. I really think so.

[00:43:26] Yeah, it's better. So let me ask you this of of the Chimino. And what's sad is that also tells you something about desperate hours. We're kind of done with it already. What? Sounding desperate, are we of the Chimino films with it, with the political edge.

[00:43:49] And I still say that includes Magnum Force. Yes. What what one do you think that he drives at home the best? I feel like he wants to go the full mile in You're the Dragon, but it's more of a stone script. And he's just adding his

[00:44:08] action and just loving staging Mickey Rort, who's really great in it. But I do feel like I do feel like Heaven's is the way to go, even though Dear Hunter is the more readily agreed upon better known one. It's also as much

[00:44:23] seen to narrow in action, you know, as well as a survival movie and a blue collar tell. So there's a lot of things there, but I do feel like Heaven's got just like you were mentioned earlier with the actual horse riding and.

[00:44:38] Much like the long riders, it does a good job of showing how people walk and talk and just in that day and age and enter a saloon and are basically a posse, even without realizing they're, you know, they're a gunfighter gang.

[00:44:54] You know, I feel like that is his most Coppola S movie as well as his own authentic voice. Yeah. And I throw in John Ford. Definitely John Ford. Yeah, Ford. He's not just because it's a Western, it's what he's saying about America.

[00:45:09] Right now, I don't I don't think he's storyboarded. If you did, I apologize. I'm sorry I did not know, but I always get a shotless feel from him. He's like, yep, just like the John Ford thing.

[00:45:18] And if it's five pages over or if I can't get it done, fuck it. I'm throwing it out and I'm moving on in the next scene because I feel like it. Yeah, right. And I agree. I mean, Dear Hunter, of course,

[00:45:33] but my answer is also Heaven's Gate, because for me, he is my sheet. Are you cheating? I'm just kidding. Cameron likes Heaven's Gate. OK, I'll go with that. No, I am. I really I'm going to call my vote. I was not in the right frame of mind.

[00:45:53] Oh, election day is over. And host one. I'm writing in a vote. No, no, I agree with you about Heaven's Gate for me because because. I'm going. So it's it's the he's planting the seeds in that movie of what America of the hypocrisy that America is built on.

[00:46:18] Yes, and I think the message is strongest in in Heaven's Gate. They're going to if they land, I feel like half of them are going to if you want to dare, I say, bring in life and death into this conversation.

[00:46:32] Many of them are bad people who want redemption. I feel like they're going to mostly end up in Purgatory, though. I think Walken's characters in Purgatory. Yeah, because you know what villain, but you understand them and you're like, yeah, he's he's just it's Hatfields and McCoy. It's not.

[00:46:55] It's not what it looks like on the surface, even though, yeah, you've done some shit things. But I think and I think you might know this or not. I'm a big old west, if you will, historical nut.

[00:47:10] The Johnson County Wars, which is what that is, it's inspired by. He turned it into a canvas, an artful canvas to show what I'm trying not sound pretentious. No, this is totally a museum tour guide. You're right. I know he turned it into a an artful,

[00:47:31] visionary look at the hypocrisy of the building of America and and the bodies that it's built on. Yep. And you could swap out the immigrants for the Native Americans. You know, it's the same thing. And it was going on at the same time. Yeah, no, it's

[00:47:53] dear Hunter is my favorite, Chimino directed film. But the all of the messages, political, social, sociopolitical that he has in all of his films came together in a perfect storm and have his gate for me. Apparently, you too. Yeah.

[00:48:12] I just I hope people will continue to revisit it over the years because instead of Oh, didn't it make the biggest flops? You don't lose any money on it. Why do you care? Exactly. And also people need to understand what that means.

[00:48:27] I think a lot of people, I think that's why Waterworld is so hated. I love it by the way. Isn't it sad that it took a mega fan using his torrent footage to re edit it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:41] I'm going to take the TV edit and the theatrical edit and I'm having to make more. I know. Yeah, it's fantastic. Quote unquote aren't in the know. Oh, that movie sucks. You know? Yeah. Oh, Waterworld. I remember when it came out. Yeah.

[00:48:57] They're like, I hear that movie sucks. You didn't hear it sucks. You heard it was a big flop and had a lot of problems. There's something different there. Makes reviews. It's not 10% like bad, you know, like the bad guy,

[00:49:10] but the bad guy is like, you know, I'm going to do this. So I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. Yeah. It's not 10% like battlefield earth where no one knew what they were doing and they just for shit to see.

[00:49:22] Andrew Stevens will do that sometimes. He franchise pictures is definitely the cannons films. The 2000s, I'm back. Steven. Yep. I knew Beverly Gray, who worked for him. He said he directed a lot of his movies in the buff with only a sock. Really?

[00:49:37] He did all those stupid Jan Tweed movies. Anyway, yeah. And we're talking about quality here, not trash anyway. Yeah. I was just going to say real quick. Well, still promotion her. Well, I'm sure motion is so terrible. In 2021, I had a screening of a documentary

[00:49:57] about all the late night cable erotic thrillers. It's really, really good movie. And I don't remember the name of it, but it's really good. Oh, yeah, that one. Yeah, I saw it. Yeah. In between the static. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right in between the lines.

[00:50:15] Oh, I see one. Yeah. Oh, man. I saw it for three seconds. If they don't move, the squiggles won't come back. They got its in color. We don't hear that kind of stuff anymore. Then order something with, oh, I've just got two big names. There's a big budget.

[00:50:38] Well, we'll buy. Yeah. The Internet age doesn't know the struggle. Oh, my goodness. How do we get to how do we get from Chimino to Skinamax? Is what I you know, I'm sure you're the dragon played on there a bunch. I don't know. Probably.

[00:50:56] By the way, a fun game with Year of the Dragon. There's a game. And again, don't get me wrong. I love it. But take a drink every time Mickey Rourke's hair color changes a little bit. How is the hairdresser that inconsistent?

[00:51:12] Yeah, it's very because he's supposed to be almost fully gray because he's supposed to be in his 50s. And in some shots, he's full gray. In some shots, he's salt and pepper. In some shots, there's barely any gray. Yeah, it's no. Consistency in the air. But who cares?

[00:51:35] It's a great, great film. And that's the most your dialogue. If that's the most you're going to get pissed off in a movie compared to all these who close my blue ray and all the glasses are inconsistent. Come on, let's pay attention to the movie. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:51:54] I remember the free kinetic. I don't care if the guns change between shots. Just show me the money. Show me the character journey and the chaos. Right. Chaos. Right. William Freakin just said something once that was pretty funny about that kind of thing. He said his A.D.

[00:52:16] said that we got to shoot that again. And he said, why? It was perfect. I want to print that one. And he said you could see the can. You could see the camera when the car drove by. Reflected reflected on the door and cruising or French or

[00:52:31] I don't remember which movie it was, but he said, who gives a shit? They know we're making a movie. That's great. He said, unless you can see the boom, print it. That's a great. Excuse me. Yeah. So that's a journalist, I swear. I like that.

[00:52:50] And yeah, you're right. Mickey Rourke's hair took your multiple viewings to see the camera crew in T2 Judgment Day escaping. Oh, that's right. Yeah, forget about that. It's a race to, you know, blu ray free version, but whatever.

[00:53:05] It's just annoying to me how it takes people going to moviemistakes.com to finally like change up their movies. I'm sure you heard about the digitally removing the boom like in The Godfather and like, my God. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:19] Do you know very quickly, do you know Richard Lester's three Musketeers movies you do? Right. Yes. Oliver Reed. There are, by the way, two of my all time favorites. But there's a scene where they're fighting the Cardinals guards and Frank Finley is Athos

[00:53:35] and he goes behind the lot they're fighting in a laundry area and there's there's laundry on the clotheslines and he goes behind a big hanging sheet to wait for one of the guards and he's going to pop out. And I think they may take it out

[00:53:53] when they when it whenever it comes to freaking American blu ray. But if you watch the DVD special edition, when he does that, the Cardinals guard comes close to the laundry where he's standing and then you hear, OK, go, Frank. And then Frank Finley comes out.

[00:54:10] Oh, wow. And I'm like, I kind of hope they never take that out. That's kind of neat. That is funny. It's Richard Lester. He's like, OK, go, Frank. It's wild how it took a Jackie Chan type spectacle for stuff like that to still be in the final cut.

[00:54:25] It's like, yeah, we do it. That's right. I'm not doing that again. Yeah. Oh, we're I'm going to be on podcasting after dark and we're talking about Android Roger Corman produced. No, very nice. He joked about how Aaron Lipstad I heard him

[00:54:42] on the Talking Pictures podcast, and he talked about how he did. Stairway stunt. Like, we don't got money for a stunt man. I'll do it. That's nice. Did he get hurt? I think he did OK, but the main reason people are checking out the movie is they're like

[00:54:59] when they they look up Blade Runner knockoffs, they look up movies James Cameron worked on before he was famous. And it's just funny how all these movies we're talking about get rediscovered in a loose way. But yeah, I'm sure the Musketeers movies

[00:55:12] will always be on the top swashbucklers or swordplay adventure films. But oh, yeah, it is funny to have to kind of look up just different reasons for how you rediscover it. Right. Exactly. It's like, how did you hear about this? I don't know.

[00:55:29] I went to that when, you know, I was on the mailing list. That was a thing back then. Exactly. A video store. I think I still owe Columbia House nine thousand dollars. Columbia House, those are the days. Those guys are ridiculous. You never had to pay him.

[00:55:50] He just kept ordering put a different name, but the same address. They'll deliver it. As the check cleared, let's go. I didn't even send one. Just got a bunch of free albums. Did you use a pager to make the order? I was before pagers, unfortunately.

[00:56:08] I was in high school in the 80s. I was I had just gotten my license before Hollywood video and all those other ones. Yeah. OK. Yeah. I had everybody video. There were video stores everywhere. There were there were no they were all mom and pops.

[00:56:23] There were no change yet. Yeah. And we used to have to wind up our cars. Which rich. Yeah. I used to have to sit on the running board. Oh, it would be amazing if someone took some of these film crew members

[00:56:46] and just started working them into like a magic time machine kind of style like movie restaurant. Yeah. That'd be fantastic. You know what I'd like to see just a show that nobody would watch, but us where they get old crew members of the movies in the 70s

[00:57:05] and you know, just sit down and just eat, drink and tell stories. Perfect. And with AI, they could do maybe what they were doing on tells from the trip back then, make it look like someone's talking to some other famous the later re recreated.

[00:57:20] And I want every episode to be three hours. There you go. Zemeckis, get on it. That's all we ask of you. Yeah, like a three hour. What was it called? Table of five with John Favreau. And see when I see what he does with all these

[00:57:36] Mandalorian making up and even in the revolution special features, I always looked at him like he's just doing his table for five thing. Regner is he is. I never understood why that show was only 30 minutes. I'm like, you got you have Dennis Hopper.

[00:57:51] You have someone do a spin tag. What was going on here? Yeah. And sometimes one of them barely speaks. I'm like, maybe it should be table for two. I don't know. And I always hated it when he had his buddies and somebody big,

[00:58:07] like it would be him and Billingsley and Vaughn and Dennis Hopper and James Connell. I'm like, no, let let them all shut up. And we only have 30 minutes. His it's too bad that Chimino didn't do more public interviews. Oh, could you imagine him being a letterman?

[00:58:29] I'm sure he would have pulled a shared and say, I got to kick your ass. Maybe he'd be like Abel Ferrero on Conan is like, I don't even want to be here. I think he would be. But I think he'd be more poised, you know.

[00:58:42] I think he would be more like he would give all interesting answers and then they would cut to commercial versus. Hey, hey, hey. Yeah, I don't think there'd be any chair jumping, though. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Unless you want that. I don't know.

[00:58:56] I don't know what to look for in an interview. I would. Hey, if it would mean he was alive, I would totally pay to see Michael Chimino's chair jump paid to have very more on the desk and pay to have some of those others.

[00:59:09] But I would probably be like day where I'd be like, that Crispin Glover fucker away from me. Oh, God. Stop stomping on my own desk. Right. Yeah. I tell you, there's a good actor there in there somewhere, but he's maddening to listen to. Oh, my God.

[00:59:29] That's my problem with a lot of these interviews. Half the time I'm like, I like you, but man, you could not be more awkward right now. I wish they got you out of time where you were ready to do this.

[00:59:38] And if this interview took five hours to make, then damn. Yeah. And he's apologetic. Crispin Glover apologized. Yeah, he said I was he didn't say I was on drugs, but he kind of said he was on drugs. We're not guilty. Yeah.

[00:59:58] Show me you're on drugs by not showing me you're on drugs. The Letterman episode. How many fingers? That's not fair, man. Yeah. Are you selling drugs? You know, Chimino was also not a drug user in a time when almost everybody did it.

[01:00:16] I thought John Cena said he was smoking a lot of stuff, but that was like near the end. I think, yeah, I think he that was the only way he could cope with. I'm doing movies that won't ever be seen.

[01:00:27] Yeah, I think in the 90s, I don't know what was going on. Breaking him mentally, like you say, for him to just say, I don't care anymore. Yeah, he didn't. But he was working on stuff until the day he died, which is cool.

[01:00:41] A lot of these unmade movies that never got made, I would love to have seen. God, me too. So many of them. I will check out this 2022 book, You're Up Friends. That's I don't know how that flew under kind of like his movies. Not good promotion.

[01:00:53] It's like, all right. Exactly. Fittingly under promoted. Yep. Well, like you said, there are so many ironies in his movies that deserve five hour chat in themselves. So I don't know why anyone just doesn't want to give them a chance. Other than, like you say, just well,

[01:01:14] 50 million people said back in the day, it sucked ass. And like, OK, that doesn't mean anything. Yeah, Blade Runner was hated back in the day. People like it now. Fight Club was a back in the day. People like it now.

[01:01:25] Hey, Citizen Kane was hated back in the day. It's a wonderful life flopped back in the day. Yeah. Wizard of Oz. Yeah. Wizard of Oz, which had like 30 directors. Yeah. I always forget that it made no money and it wasn't until Turner

[01:01:39] Broadcasting bought it, that it was a yearly tradition. So yeah, I'm it. I mean, I can't say it enough that Chimino deserves a re not that. I think resurrection is a good word because everybody has it in their deer hunter seems like one of those movies.

[01:01:59] It's in my pocket. Everybody goes for Apocalypse, Platoon, Full Metal. I got annoyed at how they bring up to your hunter. I will always see people either referencing again the roulette or the acting is just like there's so much more in there.

[01:02:16] Yeah, there's more to it than just the amazing like helicopter shots and even just the jungle shots where nothing's happening. I get a feel of uneasiness and but yeah, it's more than just the wedding, the free leads, the war violence and the

[01:02:35] all the other shocks is all about the deconstructing of a person and how they. Are subs is many of them want to keep doing the same thing until the day they die, then they do something different and now they don't know what they want anymore. And

[01:02:51] yeah, and yeah, there's so I mean, it's an amazing shell and then there's so much more amazing inside that shell. But most people only concentrate on the shell. Yeah, because how dare we open up them? Yeah, we don't we don't like to be told that America is

[01:03:09] hypocritical and racist and destroys. Yeah, so I'm quoting Marilyn Manson of all people in one of his great songs. There you go, America. He says, I'm going to flub the line, but he's talking about abortion. He says, oh, damn, he talks about

[01:03:34] he doesn't say it like this because he rhymes the next line about say, but he says we're against abortion. We need them to grow up and fight our wars. Yeah. Oh, oh, we won't kill our unborn. We need them to grow up and fight wars.

[01:03:51] That's what he says. There you go. And that's a good and that is. In the deer hunter, I mean, not the abortion ankle, but we want you to go fight your war when you come home. Hey, you know, sorry. Good luck. Top of the morning to you.

[01:04:09] Yeah, right. Get out of our way. We don't want to see you if you've been hurt over there. If you're OK and you still look cool, come to all the ceremonies. But if you've been injured or you're mentally unstable

[01:04:23] because of what happened, we turn our backs on you. And that's all in the deer hunter. It really is. It can be there any louder, any more clear cut. And that's what people need to get out of that movie.

[01:04:36] And really, like I said earlier, pay attention to that final shot. Yeah, it's not cheesy. The God bless America. It's a lot of people seem to be insensitive to war movies. I mean, come on, those are some of the only movies where traction won't do this.

[01:04:53] Are we just not just losing our maturity? I mean, I can understand if. Oh, yeah. Rambo knockoff, but I see so many other people, they will laugh at war movies and like, I want to leave. Yeah, I don't want to be in this crowd.

[01:05:09] I I saw glory the for safe to air high school version multiple times. And I would every once in a while see just rude people during these movies. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with America? Yeah, that was the I think I don't know about now. Exactly.

[01:05:30] I agree with you. We have lost our maturity, but we've also. And this goes back to what we were saying, we're not going to see movies of this ilk again. We have lost our ability to self-criticize. Yeah, we can't do that. And Oliver Stone has spoken about this.

[01:05:47] We need to do away with American exceptionalism because that's what gets us broken Vietnam veterans and broken families and broken human beings. And and that's all in the deer hunter. Yeah, we can hold 10 shows on the deer. If only everyone will come out of their shell. All right.

[01:06:14] So I hope that I hope that people will. I hope he'll be one that continually gets rediscovered because I think the message now they're saying it exactly because I think his unfortunately, he is all. Shredder called movies a woke and everyone was like,

[01:06:36] oh, I must be one of those crazy other guys. It's like, no, no, no. Listen to what he's actually saying there. He is talking about movies that are trying to have an agenda, but that's the only part of the story.

[01:06:47] And obviously, he doesn't like anything with special effects because he's old school that way. And that's OK. He doesn't have to like what you love. I'm seeing people explode. Oh, my God, can you believe Gary Elman doesn't like his Harry Potter performance? Like, yes, he's close to it.

[01:07:02] How good an actor he is. He critiques performances he doesn't care about. Harrison forever understand Star Wars. That's OK. Yeah, he didn't say you don't have to like it. He said, I don't get anything from it because I lived it. Right. Yeah. I agree.

[01:07:18] Why? Why? Why? Beat a dead horse? Why? Why do this? Yeah, exactly. Unfortunately, for many people, you must agree with me or I'm going to shoot up a school. Exactly. That's the mentality. But unfortunately, he said it.

[01:07:36] Michael Chimino is only one of two things to a lot of people. Or I mean, he's only two things to like. He's the guy who did the deer hunter and the guy who screwed up and I say screwed up with air quotes. Mike Heaven's Gate.

[01:07:52] That's all people know about. Yeah, that's all. Yeah, that's all. I mean, ask anybody. Did you know Mike Chimino? That's yeah. Did you know he co-wrote Magnum Force? I had no idea. Oh, I didn't know Thunderbolt was that that boring ass movie that made the bottom 100.

[01:08:15] It's not in the bottom 100. Well, I heard it sucked. Hearing amounts to rumors, which amounts to hearsay. Right. And that's another thing. If somebody hears a movie is bad, they just don't go. Well, why don't you make up your own mind?

[01:08:32] You think I wanted to go see Top Gun Maverick? You think I did? I went and I loved it. I have no free will, Anthony. I can't think for myself. Right. Exactly. You think my wife didn't have to drag me to Top Gun Maverick?

[01:08:48] Oh, man. I loved every bit of it, too. And as soon as it started with Danger Zone, I said this movie is going to suck. And 30 seconds later, I was having the time of my life. Yeah. Does every movie need a Kenny Logan score?

[01:09:05] No movies need a Kenny Logan store. OK. Hey, let me just put it this way. Without a Kenny Logan song, I'm all right. All right. No, just checking because I'm a bit of a not dirty dancing. What's the Kevin Bacon hit film Footloose?

[01:09:22] But I'm a bit of a footloose. Yeah. I have a soft spot for Footloose because the same thing, residual where it's stop obeying your insecure stands and care. Exactly. Yeah. And no one ever talks about how religion ruins everyone's life, but music brings them together. That's true.

[01:09:43] They just focus on the music brought them together. I'm like, yeah. Also, because they didn't listen. Exactly. They listened to them. Yeah. To me, that's why. Yeah, that's why. And what you just said, that's why Michael Chimino is his star doesn't shine as bright as it should.

[01:10:04] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Criminal. He does crime dramas, but it's criminal. The Scrooge man's books. Yeah, it's it's it's awful. It's really awful. But I get this with Verhoeven, where I see people who have only seen his free sci fi Hollywood hits or basic instinct. And that's it.

[01:10:23] They haven't seen any of his Dutch work. So they miss all that agenda. But camera work. Yeah. John McTernan. Same thing. I was sold to Prater and Die Hard. Did you see some of his other stuff? You might like it. William Freak and same thing. Oh, exorcist.

[01:10:37] Friends connection. Did you do it tells from the crib episode? Yeah. Yeah. But he's done other stuff. He's done other violent cop movies, serial killer movies. He's done everything. All right. How dare you know their body of work? But I can understand if it's a other beloved actor

[01:10:53] where really all it took was that one movie is like so. OK, yeah. Luis Fletcher. OK. So always be Nurse Ratchet and K. Wynne. OK, cool. But then there's other ones where it's like, hey, they're more than just the sign language person who won an Oscar.

[01:11:05] They're a very talented individual. She took out other stuff they've done. But. And that's what I like about Jimino. His themes are consistent. His genres are different. That is also true. And compared to someone else, like I saw some good articles

[01:11:25] when we lost a few of those comedians of recent of last year. And they talked about how they they didn't say unrealized potential, but they kind of said like they were great, but they were kind of stranded in one kind of area.

[01:11:38] And he did get a chance to play around with all kinds of other fireworks compared to other guys who you like. I just I'm waiting for him to kind of stretch himself. This is a lot for someone who had literally no financial freedom. So yeah, that's good.

[01:11:54] And Freakin very quickly was the same way, unfortunately, and it's like the myriad of genres he worked in. And he was successful in almost all of them, I think. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I see some cynics who act like, oh, he's not good after another point.

[01:12:10] And I'm like, I don't think it's as divisive as say. Later, Lomé or Argento, although you should check out some of their stuff, too, if you're a big enough fan. But it's just like, yeah, no, I Freakin is still very diverse.

[01:12:24] He's still. Oh, I mean, up to his final film, the court marshal. There's remake of the. So good. So good. Yeah. I mean, he still had it. And he's remaking an already great movie that was already had a great remake by Robert Ullman. So right.

[01:12:41] I bought it off at the same day. He's outstanding. Yeah, he was. That was a hard loss, hard loss. And so was and you know what? So is Chimino and. Yep. Freakin is will be talked about, unfortunately. No offense. I love Freakin. But unfortunately, more than Chimino and

[01:13:04] that needs to be rectified. Oh, and Chimino needs to be. We need to get beyond the whole free hour movie jokes, like I said earlier, and just like, OK. And yeah, like that's his signature. That's a style. You don't joke that this football players,

[01:13:21] this kind of quarterback persona or only good at this kind of touchdown. Do you? I mean, you probably do, but it's kind of redundant. Why go there? That's that's what I. What I love air quotes again about about the people who bitch about long running times

[01:13:40] will sit there on a Saturday when they don't have plans and binge watch an entire season of a show. Yeah, they definitely become contrarians. Don't get me wrong. There is some addicting TV, but there's plenty of other ones where it's like, nope, reject,

[01:13:52] delete all episodes off the DVR. But yeah, then there's other ones here. It's like, yeah, OK. And this is why I didn't even get into breaking bad for the longest time, because all I saw were potheads talking about it's the best thing ever.

[01:14:05] That's what they all say under the influence. And then I saw it and like, OK, I like the psychological breakdown. It's not in everyone's top. It wouldn't be my top five, but it's it's up there somewhere. I but when Saul came out, I'm like, OK,

[01:14:20] there's no way that's going to be good. I'm like, yeah, like in its own capacity. But it's it's a different oyster. It's a different show altogether. It's like the X-Files or Millennium argument, like right apples and oranges. Good fellows are mean. We're both very. Yeah, exactly.

[01:14:37] Indiana Jones or Poltergeist. Different. Yeah, but they'll you know, they'll watch eight hours of television and then get on Facebook and say, did you hear Scorsese's movie is three hours. They'll watch three hours of in game adventures. Yeah, but.

[01:14:54] Or that. Yeah, I was trying not to say that. So thank you for doing it. That every other Star Wars or James Bond movies, two and a half hours. So what does that really mean? Two hour and 45 minute Ant-Man movie. Do we need that? No.

[01:15:10] I saw all the Rocky movies. I didn't see anyone complaining then, although it was so ridiculous how then everyone's like, oh, slow, still alive. Like he won an award for the same role he originated and got nominated four years ago. This is ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[01:15:28] I don't get it. Well, hey, Chimino, let's keep propping him up to people because opposition. Take him. Take him with you film people because. Take me as a real. Yeah. He's as important as anybody of his generation. To me, I think 70s and 80s. Blammo. Yeah. And again,

[01:15:56] I mean, look, he has one of the best Vietnam films. He has one of the best Westerns and he has in my opinion and he has one of the best in my opinion, cop thrillers. He has a great robbery movie that he scripted.

[01:16:11] Yeah, he's and he's much an actor's director is Lamei. You can't tell me I don't see anyone even talking any filmmakers saying I'm jealous of them. Maybe they were on Oscar night, but that's a different story. They all are that night. So they're all bad sports. Seventy eight.

[01:16:29] I would not want it to be a voter at 78. Oh, I don't know how they split the coming home, dear Hunter, but they did it. Yeah. I have a reform to make for the Oscars. There's no telling what will happen next, but I know

[01:16:47] with everybody missing, showing that they missed the point of science or weren't listening to Star Trek very well. There's no telling what movies will be misinterpreted next. I'm getting sick of the whole oh, I say it looks like shit now.

[01:17:02] I'm like, it didn't stop me from watching it the last 20 times. Right. In the day, like 10 of them or something. 2002 graphics. OK, yeah. And yes, they there was such a thing as bad thing. I think I stopped after two. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just like, yeah.

[01:17:17] But I think that's the other problem, the sequel machine. And that's why I love doing these franchise things. I never know where anyone's going to land. I never know where it's going to tape off for someone or divide someone. And so that's why

[01:17:33] with all these other new shows that are coming back and fixing the shit that wasn't good, like Mandalorian telling it better than George Lucas and told it these new Star Trek shows are fixing the flaws in the fifth and tenth track films before makes sense.

[01:17:48] Hey, let's explain the whole Spock half brother thing and better than Shatner ever could in his lifetime. And then yeah, and then let's so you can actually appreciate it better now that you got that missing oyster

[01:18:01] and don't have to wonder why everyone's wearing Highland or Mad Max uniforms. But yeah, then you got all this other stuff. So in my mind, any character can be redeemed unless their name is Scrappy Do. Any movie can be reignited unless it's just again,

[01:18:20] there's too many music video visuals or just too many cooks. So I don't know. And that says a lot for a guy who was working multiple times with Oliver Stone and don't you find it funny that Oliver had issues with? Yeah, I'm sure Tamino had issues with him.

[01:18:35] So because they're both scriptwriters, they want those those two egos clashing together just. Oh my God, I'm surprised we're all still here. They should have come out of the closet and said, I propose I just made mad love. I love you, Oliver. I think like you.

[01:18:51] I love you too, Mike. You think like me. Well, hey, the baby made they made together was brilliant. So yeah, lightning in a ball. Yeah, it really was. So this is cool talking about the social classes. I don't think anyone else can really talk about this.

[01:19:05] I think the closest you're going to get is and Dennis Vanabh. Yeah, but what's shitty is some Dennis Vanabh fans can't explain why so cool, man. I think they they watch something like Sicario or Arrival and they they get blown the fuck away,

[01:19:23] but it's almost like a Christopher Nolan crowd or Jordan Peele crowd. And then it's mixed with like the mainstream art house crowd who've seen his earlier movies from Canada. So it's like, I don't. Yeah, that's well said about him because

[01:19:37] because he's like the only one I think can get away with it because there's other people too are like, hey, you said I don't like it. He walks the Ridley Scott balance and really Scott. Yes, Michael Mann, really Scott, the crowd pleaser versus the art.

[01:19:54] Yep. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, he really is the other one. You know what I got? Hello. I guess, but I still see people being accused of being a self-indulgent. I'm like, what does that word even mean anymore? Yeah, I think self-indulgent now means

[01:20:10] you're criticizing a good filmmakers movie. I can understand you are just bored or you like how it looks, but you feel like the story has been pulled to death. If it's the billionth take on Sherlock Holmes or Robin Hood. But then I'm even more mystified on when again,

[01:20:27] I think we got to even just peel back what three or four hour movies we do or don't like. I mean, I like Lord of the Rings. It did not need to win every single Oscar. So that year. So I agree. I agree. And yeah, and

[01:20:41] every Peter Jackson movie doesn't have to be three or four hours. Does not need to be three hours. And I know people who still wanted to kind of return to his Sam Raimi, Joe Dante kind of original roots, but I don't think he's interested in that,

[01:20:53] which kind of bummers. So what do I know? I feel like everyone involves different. I still say his best movie is Heavenly Creatures. I love the Lord of the Rings films, but Heavenly Creatures is so good. Yeah. Well, she's kicking ass here on Yellow Jackets.

[01:21:08] So she is just she is phenomenal. I love her to death. Yep. Do smart broad. Yeah. Yeah. Smart broad. I love it. I would not be sure. Yeah. The government. Right. James Connell still said broad until he died.

[01:21:30] One of his last interviews on Mark Maron's podcast, he's like, oh, yeah, there was this broad blah, blah, blah. I love that, dude. Me too. And that's what pisses me off, too. I see people again trying to talk shit about older movies.

[01:21:45] You're like, it's such an unconvincing fight scene in The Godfather. I'm like. It took you again five times to notice that. Yeah, exactly. I I've seen people do it with other movies and shows. I'm like, stop it. Stop it. Stop.

[01:22:01] I love spotting the stunt double or the boom. Like stop ruining the experience for me. Stop it. It's fun. It's fun sometimes. It really is. When intended, unintended. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun when the car and bullet goes around the corner,

[01:22:14] loses a hubcaps around the corner and the hubcaps back on. And I like that. Yes. The car putting itself back together like a transformer is always hysterical. And those early Marco Lester 80s films. But then then you even get into the actor.

[01:22:29] If you look close enough is reacting before the blanks go off. I do applaud Antoine Foucault and Martin Campbell for doing kind of the Walter Hill. Aspect, they approach every movie as a Western and then they mask it with another genre

[01:22:44] and then they use a mixture of CGI blood with blanks still. So yeah. Yeah, Walter Hill's relying too hard on the CGI blood. Lately, but yeah, unfortunately, but I'm not going to tell him.

[01:22:56] I think it was one of the best TV pilots ever in the form of Deadwood. So yes, he did. And one of the best first seasons. There you go. You got tells from the crib, but technically they don't that out of order. But hey, good episodes.

[01:23:10] All right. Great podcast. If you want to listen to how not to make a movie. I don't know that one. Yeah, so that's by the head writers, Gil Adler and Al Katz. And they are produced by dads from the crib, which are also awesome.

[01:23:23] If you ever want them on a show to probably do it. Fantastic. They have interviewed everybody from Romero's protege, John Harrison to I love Harrison. Yeah, it's all these other guy. Cool cats and Russell Mokahi and just like all these guys who you like. They have done a.

[01:23:40] A mishmash of Merck work, you know, hired gun stuff to workmen like to their own distorted, crazy cult movie vision. So yeah, that's cool. So have we played out Pacino? Oh, yeah. Tramino and but I mean, Chimino. I'm sorry. So I think I'm getting sleepy. Cinta, but Chimino.

[01:24:09] I promise you, speaking of that, I will on my list of people to hunt down on IMDB Pro Michael Brest or Martin Brest is on the list. Yeah, one of my favorite comedy filmmakers. In his time, he was so good at what he does. Yeah, just amazing.

[01:24:27] Oh, I don't know the reason why he stopped. But I mean, I know a couple of failures financially. He did like a playboy interview and he still didn't give away. All he did was hint what went wrong on his final movie.

[01:24:39] But yeah, it's like he refuses to say what happened is like, dude, I want you to talk about going in style. Midnight run. Even meet Joe Black. How did you make all these crowd pleasers? Why did you get fired from War Games?

[01:24:55] Yeah, no offense to him. I'm kind of glad he did. I really love what Badum did there. Yeah, no, don't get me wrong. That was good and it's all right. But I love how much like Joe Dante. He's very blunt. He will say what's on his mind.

[01:25:07] Yeah, yeah. The. Summer of 83, Badum gave us both War Games and Blue Thunder, and I think that's pretty amazing. Thank you, John. Thank you, John, for doing that. It's so funny how both he and Dante have done TV work that Dante is all up front.

[01:25:31] He's like, hey, use the bills. And I love how Badham's like anything can be interesting with me on it. I'm like, I love it. I love it. That's true. He's maybe that's a future show because he's an underrated director.

[01:25:45] Badum, I you'll be happy to know I knew someone in junior high who sang his praises very nice. So someone out there, someone knows in the 2000s was a fan of War Games, Oscar, maybe even Beverly Hills got free. I don't know. They were a fan.

[01:26:05] They were a fan of the bad. We don't need to be a fan of that one. I know I'm joking. I'm just glad they're making it a race to stay. And I love John Landis. Don't get me wrong. I love Oscar. I think Oscar is a highly underrated.

[01:26:22] Oh, that's right. That was Landis. I said, Lance, yeah, my bad. You did say that. That's all right. I knew you were off. I got you back. Landis did you some of the showing episodes of psych? That's what I hear. But you'll always stand that guy.

[01:26:40] So I never watch it. Oh, I know. Let me send you the best episode. OK. It's a little bit one. You have to be like, yeah, I do. Yeah, I have them all. Let me look up. I'll send me a link and I'll get on that.

[01:27:01] I'll show you the Kung Fu episode. OK. But yeah, we always have those brothers coming to America. And for me, into the night. Another item, I think it's so good. Yeah. Always good. I'm down here. You want to promote your show?

[01:27:21] Are you coming out with any new stuff? No, no, no, just kidding. Yeah, I don't care. Enough about me. You're doing a J-Line. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, you know, it's a good show. I write for three places now. Yeah.

[01:27:34] I you can find my reviews and articles at Screen Comment dot com and the movie review at Gut dot com. And now film threat dot com. I'm writing for all three places. Yeah. And our podcast, essentially cinema is coming back in 2024.

[01:27:52] We stopped it and we're reshaping it and we're starting fresh in a couple of weeks. Sweet. I'm not covering Sundance this year, unfortunately. Too much to do on the home front. So. I'm staying here. I'm staying here. Like for some of the same thing inside me. All right.

[01:28:12] But you can find all my stuff there and. Yeah. All right. So question here for the new war viewer in you. I don't know if you're up to date on justified. Oh, yeah. Did you notice the out of sight in reference? Oh, yeah.

[01:28:29] And my man from Amsterdam, I'm like, yeah. So it is part of all the cinematic universe. They did the current Cisco thing. Now they went there. No one ever get that unless they've seen outside. Yep. No, it's fantastic.

[01:28:41] I I didn't love this season as much as the originals, but it's still really good. Yeah, for me, it was kind of a take it expensive to come back, but it was a whole different oyster. I'm like, there's something. It's different. It works on that level.

[01:28:54] But I still prefer when he was in Kentucky being the. Yeah, I was just about saying he needs to be in the south. And you know what? I think they should make a justified movie and Walter Hill should co-write it and direct. I mean, justified is Walter Hill.

[01:29:10] Come on. That is an action orgasm waiting to happen. It really is. And even though, yes, it's Elmore Leonard. I'm talking to the olefana. I love working with that guy on devoid. I mean, you should get him. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. They did work together.

[01:29:27] Yeah. What's the problem? This has been good. I hope we do, man. So OK. So you got to get over to you. All right. No worries. I I hope we got Chimino out there to the masses. Yep. Two partners. Yep. Yeah. Right. Perfect.

[01:29:45] And I will be back as soon as you invite me. Right. Well, we have plenty of other stuff on here. Well, we'll keep working with the different schedules doing. And the beauty of it is we can't expect to get all these reviews all in at the same time.

[01:29:58] So sometimes we just will do our favorite moments. It's kind of like a sitcom. What are your favorite running gags? And it's something that it's a brief chat that still cuts the mustard. I'm down as long as I'm not.

[01:30:11] Hey, I'm just happy the last time we had to cancel was your fault. Yep. Yep. Because it's always me. Oh, man. I need to stop being called into work for once in my life. Yeah, I'm supervisor, but I didn't deserve a night's sleep.

[01:30:27] And free days. Yes, you do. You really do. I used to be a restaurant manager. I know where my dad can relate to you was a godfather's pizza. No, no, no. I ran a couple of restaurants.

[01:30:42] Yeah, the manager kind of does everything, waits the tables, tells other people, hey, you need to help me out here from your bone instead of coming in late and waiting on if you think you're safe once you've gotten home. That's not always the case.

[01:30:55] No, someone else is a no show and you got to come in. Yeah. Oh, man. All right, man, this is a blast. I for having me. Those days are yeah, I hope you get to go to some other fantastic fest or some other cool hang out.

[01:31:10] I'm looking at Santa Barbara this year. I did it two years ago. Sweet. And I and I did. I did try Becca last year, so I'd like to do that again. There we go. Can I get my credentials in trying to renew? All right. Well, have a man.

[01:31:28] Well, thank you. Have an awesome San Francisco car chase down there. Oh, right. Over the hills. I'll keep my hubcaps on and if they fall off, don't worry. They'll be back on again. No bananas in the tailpipe. You got no bananas on the tailpipe. He's in love.

[01:31:49] All right, man, I'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Keep wiping the floor with movie reviews. All right, buddy. I'll talk to you soon. We'll return after these messages. The Jacked Up Review Show podcast is honored to be part of the Blind Knowledge Podcast Network.

[01:32:10] Join any time, talk the talk and enjoy yourselves. There's something enlightening for everyone with this crowd of cool cats. Check them out. Hey, it's Brent Pope, the host of Brent this with Brent Pope. You've seen me on some of your favorite TV shows saying things like

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