Crime Week: Law & Order, NYPD Blue & Bones Tie-In Novels Reviewed (with NYPD Blue Balls’ Kirk Asher!)

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[00:00:20] It's a chapter, reveal show, it's a chapter, reveal show, chapter, reveal show.

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[00:00:45] All right, welcome all, welcome all.

[00:00:47] We got one of the two Asher brothers, the lovely podcasters in the studio today.

[00:00:53] Welcome back Kirk.

[00:00:56] >> Hello, hello, hello, sir.

[00:00:59] >> He's ripping more shirts than Captain Kirk himself.

[00:01:04] >> Well, I'm your host, Sully, and once again, this is a long time coming.

[00:01:07] We were just back and forth, back and forth, and like all our topics.

[00:01:11] Sometimes they take months, and people think, wouldn't be simple, and

[00:01:14] I'm like, well, not if you're doing research and trying to add all your notes.

[00:01:18] >> Yeah, when life finds a way, and suddenly you're moving or-

[00:01:23] >> Yeah, or your equipment dies on you or something like that.

[00:01:29] >> Yeah, this first part of last year was awful.

[00:01:32] And same thing with this year, I had some insomnia attacks and I was just like, okay,

[00:01:37] I got enough for the next few months, so I'm gonna figure out what the hell this is.

[00:01:42] Otherwise, I'm not gonna be able to function and sure enough, not figured out.

[00:01:45] But you got always kind of braced for impact, and

[00:01:50] same thing with podcast topics.

[00:01:51] I see some people who wanna do a Patreon, but

[00:01:54] they're not willing to do what their Patreons are asking.

[00:01:56] So I'm like, well, then save yourself some time and don't do it if you're not gonna do it.

[00:02:01] >> Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:01] >> Honor your agreement.

[00:02:04] >> Exactly.

[00:02:05] >> Again, you host the podcast in YPD Blue Balls and

[00:02:08] see them some other podcasting work and been on the show before.

[00:02:12] But I never get sick of just kind of your insight into

[00:02:16] societal commentary and political disruptions, as well as just

[00:02:23] kind of talking about how just the disintegration of characters,

[00:02:29] as well as just a little minor just like well intended stuff that just kind of

[00:02:33] came off as outdated or not completely fleshed out.

[00:02:37] And I sometimes will say to my parents, they'll be like, what are you talking about?

[00:02:42] I'm like, okay, this is a plot mechanism.

[00:02:45] This is a narrative issue, plot device.

[00:02:48] That's when a character just feels like they serve the story, but

[00:02:53] they're kind of forcing it not fully developed.

[00:02:55] >> Yeah, I actually had that conversation with my dad recently.

[00:03:02] We were just talking about movies and I had mentioned how I had somehow watched

[00:03:07] that new Batman movie a lot more than I expected to because of how long it is.

[00:03:13] And he's like, yeah, that was just boring.

[00:03:14] And then I started to go into all the history of what I like about Batman and

[00:03:19] why I like this movie and compare certain types of Batman that we've seen and others.

[00:03:25] And then he's like, I don't watch movies like that.

[00:03:27] And then I was like, yeah, that's why this seems like a weird conversation.

[00:03:30] You don't examine an over-examine very small things in movies.

[00:03:35] >> Sometimes it seems like people will just bottle up if they just find it absurd.

[00:03:43] I'm like, well, you still have to figure out why it's absurd.

[00:03:46] I have family members who do not get any of the social commentary in plan of age.

[00:03:53] They don't get that it's an allegory for slavery or racism.

[00:03:59] And just rebellion and they just think, stupid, awful gorilla movie.

[00:04:06] Or they have just seen other versions of it and they assume that's the go to them like, no.

[00:04:12] >> Yeah.

[00:04:14] >> And because they find it so annoying and dumb, you can't even get fruit of them.

[00:04:20] So I'm just like, okay, way to kill the fun here guys.

[00:04:25] >> [LAUGH]

[00:04:27] >> Yeah, plan of the age is another good example, where I remember watching that first one.

[00:04:31] I don't want to say like three or four years ago, but yeah, I remember watching it for

[00:04:38] the first time and I was like, wow, this is really great and has a lot to say about humanity.

[00:04:45] How it views other species and itself, how it views its own evolution.

[00:04:50] And then when I saw it was written by, or at least co-written by Rod Serling, I was like,

[00:04:55] that's why it's very twilight zone issue.

[00:04:58] >> That's why this is so good.

[00:05:00] This is a very thoughtful, very intentioned writer,

[00:05:05] a guy that wants to make a clear point in the stories that he writes.

[00:05:09] So I was like, that's why this is a very well written, very interesting movie.

[00:05:14] But yeah, and then you watch Tim Burton and you're like, wow, that's a real big swing and a miss, man.

[00:05:22] >> Yeah, thanks for that experience.

[00:05:25] >> Mm-hm.

[00:05:27] >> That was a fun for.

[00:05:29] >> I feel like he almost did it just so he wouldn't have to do sequels or something,

[00:05:34] or he didn't want to do it to begin with.

[00:05:36] There are times where you'll see, I mean, we kind of get into it with just other filmmakers.

[00:05:42] Like some of the superhero ones were good because they chose to not play it inch by inch

[00:05:51] of the source material, they did kind of a sarcastic take on it.

[00:05:54] You have, I mean, Dixle Smire did some of the best Star drag movies

[00:05:59] because he didn't play it to the formula.

[00:06:01] He just did a good movie first and added the characters where they needed.

[00:06:05] And it is wild how some people will say this doesn't work here, but it does work here.

[00:06:13] But then they forget about previous criticism and acting like it never existed

[00:06:19] because it doesn't serve their agenda and it's like no, no, no.

[00:06:22] And I mean, some of these shows we're going to talk about, I mean, there's no shortage of it.

[00:06:27] We've seen people bitch about them, but not really know what they were about or kind

[00:06:33] of just disagree with them just because they didn't like the jury outcome, so to speak.

[00:06:40] They did one thing, they consider unrealistic.

[00:06:42] So, it's not a good show.

[00:06:46] Okay, yes, it's not good at all because of one thing I didn't like.

[00:06:50] How dare you?

[00:06:52] So, we got four books to review here today and we've been doing a lot more lately talking

[00:06:59] about screenplays and comic book spin-offs and just, you know, everybody's had it.

[00:07:08] It's not just movies and shows that are based on a comic, you know, there's so many of them

[00:07:14] that continue their narratives that are really worth reading everything from Blade Runner

[00:07:19] and Robocop to Hellraiser and just numerous, just anthologies and Alien versus Prettor's

[00:07:31] another big one, you know, and some of them do really good in book form, but the ones

[00:07:35] in comic form are always interesting because even if you don't really find the dialogue

[00:07:40] notable or the ending kind of as fast-paced, you know, again, the artwork and ideas are

[00:07:47] just, if they land with you, that's worth it alone regardless of the pricing.

[00:07:52] Oh, yeah, for real.

[00:07:55] So first up on the docket, in '04, there was this book by mystery novelist James S. and

[00:08:03] Davis that adapted an original stand-alone mystery for the original "Law and Order"

[00:08:12] TV show and I'll go into it real fast.

[00:08:19] I could not put it down, I am not even kidding.

[00:08:23] It was a good stand-alone novel while really feeling like the person had watched enough

[00:08:29] episodes or gotten some approval from producer Dick Woof's people on how to handle all the

[00:08:35] different characters.

[00:08:37] It was quite all right and there was some good detail to the signature dialogue, slightly

[00:08:45] rough beginning, and the mystery reveals a book of a troubled hedge fund guy who might

[00:08:59] have been incriminating himself and his ex-wife's murder as well as his finances.

[00:09:06] And among the other findings, there's this Doug Guy who says that there was also a questionable

[00:09:11] finder's fee and that the suicide note by the victim might have been affected by one

[00:09:16] of the other culprits, contains appearances by Lieutenant Van Buren, attorney Jack McCoy,

[00:09:24] his ADA, Serena, and the main district attorney Arthur Branch, as well as our main detectives

[00:09:37] at that time were Briscoe and Green and so they are the main ones going back and forth

[00:09:41] having their usual cynicism in remarks on how this doesn't add up to much or it's just

[00:09:49] too clean and most of the dialogue really doesn't get too edgy.

[00:09:56] There's a brief mild use of shit but I've kind of seen stuff that where you could probably

[00:10:01] hear something like that but even the psychiatrist Emile Skoda and fire detective Michael Logan

[00:10:11] were even mentioned so there's a mild continuity error because they're claiming hey he's writing

[00:10:16] a book and you might be retiring but it was not to be as he appeared later on the criminal

[00:10:22] intent show but it makes no shortage of also mentioning other pop culture in there just

[00:10:29] like the actual show would they even mention celebrities like iced tea so I'm like okay

[00:10:35] awesome.

[00:10:36] Someone just felt cool to break the fourth wall I mentioned an actor actually plays a

[00:10:41] character on the show, a franchise, and then next up on the docket but yeah no it was a

[00:10:49] really lovely read you can probably get it very affordable and I got it on some of my

[00:10:54] PDF servers and I might as well have bought it but this spring it really will entertain

[00:11:03] those who are looking for a good standalone mystery as well as show completeness so good

[00:11:09] rare very rare just accomplishment yeah jim really and so I'll go briefly into the next

[00:11:19] one and that'll lead us up to the main reason you're here we so there was a book based on

[00:11:29] the tv show bones and I found it funny because I was like uh so the show based on a show

[00:11:43] well based on a book it became a spinoff book with the new characters playing the characters

[00:11:52] okay got it but yeah katie rice was the main gal who did all the corner examination dna

[00:12:01] testing at you know it was the show filmed in canada but it was you know based in you

[00:12:06] know washington and oh yeah so it it's said at the jeffersonian institute and you know

[00:12:16] our main characters bones and agent booth are going after a plastic bag of skeletal remains

[00:12:24] related to a case involving a chicago mouth family and a chilling note is left on the steps

[00:12:33] of the federal building and violent twists and bloody discoveries as the novel indicates it's

[00:12:39] written by max Allen Collins who many will know as the author of the road to perdition book and

[00:12:45] graphic novel series that later became a movie as well as

[00:12:49] just numerous other just book and comic tie-ins to various movies and tv shows as well as his own

[00:13:02] original thrillers and sci-fi material um I vary on him I do not in any way shape or form

[00:13:10] think he's a hack or anything I think he's quite talented actually um now this one never really

[00:13:18] ignited for me um again uh the name of it is once again um uh bones very deep and you know

[00:13:29] much like that subtitle I just didn't really feel like it was quite firing at all the seams now

[00:13:36] I I'd seen utter tie-ins max is done he's written some CSI comics and novels and those are okay and I

[00:13:46] read his criminal lines books and again this is kind of like those where it's half firing on the

[00:13:55] cylinders but it's not quite cutting the mustard I don't it's not going to appeal at all to anyone

[00:14:02] who hasn't seen the show but I just didn't feel like the characters were even talking like they talk

[00:14:09] no yeah that's that's a big thing because I've read so many other books that are awesome that are

[00:14:17] based on tv shows like the show 24 and those had different authors and some of them would get

[00:14:23] distracted or just kind of be like a James Bond encounter where fun idea not good use of your time

[00:14:31] or outcome or kind of a weak villain there but otherwise a good read and

[00:14:36] this was kind of like that where I just felt like it was an uninspired read it was fast paced

[00:14:43] it was very heavily detailed there was some out-of-place profanity you got f-bombs galore

[00:14:48] with the Chicago guys I'm like guys if you are sometimes it's okay like I like how the new

[00:14:54] Star Trek shows have gotten grittier and for mature audience but see they warned that they kind of

[00:14:58] earned that they kind of already had kind of a mature audience and they're just

[00:15:02] going up the next level but here with this I'm like you know okay so it's a gritty show but it

[00:15:08] was otherwise you know for young adults and teens you know and it was a mixture of kind of very

[00:15:15] witty office drama with some soap uh soapy mystery and even some funny Easter eggs for sci-fi horror

[00:15:24] gigs you know so I I don't the profanity really didn't do anything for either the character

[00:15:30] development of these characters that we'll never see again or and it's trying to get very

[00:15:37] unhinged and intense and there's just too much reliance on the viewers knowledge of the show

[00:15:42] like sometimes these books really will do good use of show giving you an idea of what's inside

[00:15:49] the character's head but there was a little too much of that here and uh so I can recommend it

[00:15:55] unless you are once again you you got to get everything related to the show watch all the

[00:16:00] movies with the actors you know all that so it's yeah you got it and you can probably get a very

[00:16:07] cheap now but that's on your discretion you probably would just be better off just watching reruns on

[00:16:13] TNT 24/7 again um so this brings us to our main uh object about discussion uh so these books were

[00:16:25] expensive as fuck yeah I got a funny story about that too so I so we're talking about uh Max

[00:16:35] Allen Collins also wrote two books that are some of his first science stuff yeah like these these

[00:16:43] two books that are tied into the world of NYPD blue a police ones a prequel one's later like yeah

[00:16:52] three seasons in well yeah the first one acts the first one blue beginning acts like a prequel

[00:17:00] almost to the very moment of the pilot absolutely it really gets right up right up to the end of it

[00:17:06] and then the second one yeah blue blood is based in between season two and three okay so

[00:17:14] so Sipowitz has his new partner Simone but he doesn't if he can trust him fully yet because he

[00:17:22] hasn't spent a lot of time with him um but there is but there is this kind of friction between them

[00:17:29] because now Sipowitz questions if he really should have trusted John Kelly his first partner which was

[00:17:36] David Caruso in the first season yep um and John Kelly in the first book um so it kind of creates

[00:17:43] an immediate friction between these two partners in the in the second book which I thought was really

[00:17:48] well used in that second book um because because there's so much there's so much to say about these

[00:17:56] tie-ins only because um as as you may have mentioned uh at the top of the show or if you remember

[00:18:05] me being on a previous uh yeah so we uh my brother and I do a podcast where we talk about every single

[00:18:12] episode of the show and there's been 12 seasons there's over 250 episodes and and while the quality

[00:18:21] you can argue the quality may have changed the tone has kind of always been consistent on that show

[00:18:27] so so my biggest worry reading these books of like if this guy doesn't hit the tone then

[00:18:35] he's already in so much trouble because there have been up to episodes of down episodes but the

[00:18:41] tone has always been consistent and you always kind of left feeling like oh I watched an NYPD

[00:18:45] blue episode there's no filler there's no oh that didn't seem right so so I was like okay let's start

[00:18:53] Hello. My name is Jeff Altman and I will say I was pleasantly surprised that in my mind it matches the tone of the show. It is not so much a mystery as it is. What is the process to find out the information we already kind of know is true. It kind of plays a lot like is my camera books in a way. I don't know if anyone's read those but I mean he did the query which was also a neo noir Eschka.

[00:19:22] He's more ex-con on the run show, which later became a cinemax show and same kind of deal here. He does love enriching a lot of detective stuff and I must compliment this as well as you said and that he definitely feels like he knows every inch of these characters

[00:19:46] and he's telling everything from their getting ready for work versus something on their mind. Give me a little of that heavy grit.

[00:19:56] And the one thing, because as I was reading them I was like okay I'm pleasantly surprised and you were talking about kind of the cursing and the dialogue and the only thing, the only thing that Max Allen Collins does.

[00:20:13] And that would immediately take me out of what I was reading is because I've seen it and because I've seen the show so much every single scene he writes I already know exactly what it looks like.

[00:20:25] But then he'd have a character curse in a way that they have never done in 12 seasons of the show. And that one moment immediately would take me out of it and it was so weird that I didn't realize it.

[00:20:38] The second, the simple its character uses the F word it's like, he's never used it. He said some horrible things I totally missed that.

[00:20:48] He said some horrible things he said some racist things homophobic things transphobic things tons of horrible things but he's never used the F word.

[00:20:58] So he's also never used the word baby. And in the second book he uses it like four times and I was like, it just seems weird to imagine Dennis Franz saying that to a woman.

[00:21:10] Like it doesn't seem right. And so only those moments I was like okay that was a little weird but everything else unless he was a different character before the pilot.

[00:21:21] Yeah, it was, it was an odd one but, but you're right. It's clear that Max Alan Collins is such a perfect three, three name names.

[00:21:38] You can tell that Max Alan Collins was was trying very hard to not disappoint people who like that show.

[00:21:48] It would have been so easy to just kind of turn in a generic. Oh, here's some hardened detectives here are their problems, and not really go into who they are, where I feel like, when you watch the very beginning of NYPD blue the pilot

[00:22:05] and you have to, you have to figure out a prequel story that somehow shows him as someone who can be redeemed, but is also a train wreck.

[00:22:18] And he somehow, he somehow merges his alcoholism with a story of him trying to help an underage girl get back to her family, who may be tied up in the pornography business.

[00:22:31] And so, it's, it's like wow he's such a good guy and then when something terrible happens to that girl it's like of course he would start drinking.

[00:22:39] He like finally gets a leg up and they're doing something right and then it all falls apart around him, what the rest the rest of the show happens to go so like it makes sense it adds up and then, like I mentioned it leads right into the beginning

[00:22:53] of the pilot which was, which was I thought a great job I thought he did a good job doing.

[00:22:58] Yeah, check it out.

[00:23:01] I thought this was a little stronger in the second book, Blueblood.

[00:23:05] He's now a guy.

[00:23:07] He's not really trying to even reference all events he's just trying to do a cool standalone mystery.

[00:23:14] Yeah, someone has tried to kill his new wife Sylvia the attorney.

[00:23:21] It was, because yeah, the second book is someone breaks into his and his new wife his newlyweds home.

[00:23:31] And he fights them off and then the entire book they assume it's this.

[00:23:37] Recent millionaire that got out of a murder charge.

[00:23:41] It turns out to be turns out to be someone from civil rights has passed.

[00:23:45] But it, when I first read both of them I was like, I like the second one more than the first. And then when I kind of skim through them again for the, for the podcast.

[00:23:57] I realize like no I think I like the first one better only because the second one does two very strange things.

[00:24:05] It makes Sylvia Costas, who is civil with his wife, jealous of Russell thinking that something was going on.

[00:24:14] I forgot.

[00:24:15] Between.

[00:24:16] And I was like that feels like that would never happen.

[00:24:20] That seems like something that.

[00:24:22] Like one thing Sylvia is never really been as jealous of.

[00:24:27] Of someone that's someone that might be talking to that doesn't make sense.

[00:24:33] And it also led to a very funny line.

[00:24:36] Where, and when I saw it again I laughed out loud because.

[00:24:41] Civil rights in a sarcastic tone says to Sylvia. Yeah, that's right Sylvia.

[00:24:46] I'm waiting for you to get out of the picture, so I can date a woman half my age who's in the dude to look like me.

[00:24:52] And I'm like, well, when you get to the last three seasons, you do date a woman that you would.

[00:24:59] And it's played like it's totally normal, which is so weird.

[00:25:05] And then the other thing was.

[00:25:09] Simone.

[00:25:11] Simone is body guarding.

[00:25:15] A woman who is the daughter of the man that was doing security work on the side.

[00:25:22] I know he did it briefly, but he kind of got away from it when you saw how shady some of the other guys were.

[00:25:27] Yeah, and when he did that.

[00:25:31] It almost felt like.

[00:25:34] That was almost a step too far for Simone like Simone.

[00:25:38] He'll go, he'll kind of color outside the lines and go outside of policy.

[00:25:42] But the fact that he did that on his own and didn't tell anybody I was like, wow, that seems like way out there.

[00:25:47] Like that's a really big reaching.

[00:25:51] That seems like a real easy way to get fired because that's compromising the case it's compromising yourself it's compromising your partner.

[00:26:01] And it's like, you know, it's like, it's so, you know, you're just like, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, you're a boss.

[00:26:09] Like it really seemed like that seems too far. And then the book, kind of like NYPD blue itself does.

[00:26:17] They found an excuse to get him half naked with a woman that felt super forced.

[00:26:22] Where it was just like, what?

[00:26:24] They're going to.

[00:26:25] She's going to try and have sex with this man in her childhood bedroom.

[00:26:28] And that's actually been revealed after the fact and there would have still been a bigger lead up to it. So, yeah, I'm with it. It seems like they kind of were casually watching the show and that respect and just.

[00:26:42] Again, trying to force it into the plot and like, it's not how these typically work. Say what you want about the content itself, but that's not how we lead into this, typically.

[00:26:54] As you mentioned, that it does seem to tie in well and even though the second book is not as strong as the first one.

[00:27:04] I do think blue blood kind of works very well in between the second and third season.

[00:27:11] It's only because it highlights a very important thing, which is John Kelly is gone. They actually, they take a lot of time in that book to kind of talk shit about him indirectly.

[00:27:27] It's pretty, it's pretty directed that they're just like, yeah, you think a guy you were with for seven years will show up to your wedding, but apparently not. And you're like, OK, we're talking about them a lot.

[00:27:42] So, I like a very important thing, which is sip with is still trying to get into the idea of making new friends. And it's like redemption arc like he's trying to be close to people.

[00:27:58] And it's setting up Simone and Russell, which becomes the real big.

[00:28:04] So, I won't they run mants of the show at that time. But they do it in kind of a, they do it in a good placeholder way because this is a, this is a book that takes place between between two seasons of television.

[00:28:19] So, just the way those work, you have to have kind of a.

[00:28:25] You have to have a cliff hanger and then the second the next season starts, you got to remind everybody about what's important, but nothing really important happened in between that time.

[00:28:37] So it's kind of, so it has to be a very weird middle ground where it's like it has to be an interesting story, but nothing super notable happens that they would ever talk about in the season.

[00:28:49] So, that pays off to their character development. So it's like that's a, that's a precarious position to be in and the guy did a decent job with what he had.

[00:29:00] I, I'm with the he, he didn't feel like he was doing this half ass. I can't justify the pricing.

[00:29:09] I don't know why these became collector's items and.

[00:29:13] Yeah, that story, I got, I let my dad bar, I let my dad borrow these. The team, he really likes, he really likes the show.

[00:29:23] And it's like yeah you should give them a read I mean they're not amazing but I think they're pretty cool.

[00:29:28] And I let them borrow the first one.

[00:29:30] And then, when we met back up I said okay.

[00:29:34] And he gave me the back.

[00:29:36] He said he gave the first one back and I said, okay cool start on the second one and he goes you never gave me the second one.

[00:29:43] I was like yeah I did.

[00:29:45] And also everybody at this point is in a state of like moving.

[00:29:49] So all their stuff is in boxes. It's not where they thought it was.

[00:29:53] Everything's topsy survey.

[00:29:55] So I go yeah I did like no you did not I was like well I mean, it was a little expensive on Amazon. Let me see if there's another copy.

[00:30:03] And then on my phone, go to Amazon it was like $230.

[00:30:08] And I was like, yeah we're gonna find we're gonna find this book if I have to tear open everything I own to find this book, because there is no way I'm spending $230 on a 200 page.

[00:30:21] And then it says, oh I was stuck you got to buy another different one I was like what the hell so eBay helped out a bit, but I doubt most fans even know that there are books of this you know unless you were then in there an avid TV and watch

[00:30:41] your reader back in the day.

[00:30:51] It must be that and just basic supply and demand where it's like they didn't make a lot of days. So if you really want one you're going to have to pay up the big bucks because whoever has it knows that you're not going to get it anywhere else so

[00:31:06] because I remember, I remember seeing them on Amazon when I first bought them. I was like okay that's a little expensive but you know I have all the DVDs.

[00:31:16] I have a podcast based on this.

[00:31:19] Want to get a little bit of a nonstop yeah.

[00:31:22] Like what's what's a little extra money for this and I got both of them and then they went up.

[00:31:27] Like, well, I don't know, six time that amount in this year that I own them and I'm like oh shoot that's, that's crazy. Okay.

[00:31:39] But it also means I definitely got a, I definitely got to keep them. And I got to keep them safe. Just in case.

[00:31:50] It was an interesting experiment. It wasn't a must do but I was anything to get you back on here but it was also just fun to just kind of see is like hey, this was the typical kind of tie in thing back in the day.

[00:32:04] And it is a, it is an interesting.

[00:32:09] I did find it interesting that they didn't continue, or at least kind of shift focus on these only because it feels like an NYPD blue had such a.

[00:32:21] It was very dense at then rich, like universe that you could have easily said hey write a book about internal affairs and Martens.

[00:32:33] Like he shows up. He shows up at absolutely random times throughout every season. It's an interesting character. And, and whatever you write doesn't have to take place with these characters.

[00:32:46] And I was like I would have liked a little more show us the internal affairs department I guess you know and the TV show Brooklyn South builds on some of those same internal affairs guys and other minor characters like the snitch guy and criminal

[00:33:02] in that format but, you know, most not everyone saw that awesome Stephen bobs go show so it would like you say it would have been cool it kind of maybe even get a comic book back in the day that expanded some of the universe of it.

[00:33:16] And also I think about I mean I don't remember what year the book was published.

[00:33:22] The first one was pretty much 94 came out around the same time as a year after the show and this one, I saw one site claiming 95 another one claim 97 so

[00:33:37] I mean, at that time, people were it was happening. People were reading. They're definitely were definitely reading books a lot more than they are now.

[00:33:46] So memory, yeah.

[00:33:48] And then you figure NYPD blue kind of when it first came out it was very, very popular and it was very, it was part of the zeitgeist where like everybody was talking about it, because it was before the Internet like fractured all of our attention spans.

[00:34:05] Yeah, but, but the, but the idea that they that these books must not have done well enough to justify continuing them.

[00:34:15] It just kind of seems unfortunate because it's like, this seems like a pretty easy way to make a little bit of money on this brand and get more stories out of that that you couldn't do on TV for.

[00:34:27] Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think it's a crazy thing. I don't think that's a really, really crazy thing.

[00:34:34] There's cursing and the violence can be a little more explicit.

[00:34:38] Right, it was in that rare zone. I mean, there were plenty of other things at that time, like from.

[00:34:46] of millennium was so gruesome at times that they barely would show it, you know, during the day,

[00:34:51] just because they were just afraid of repercussions. And it's an interesting, just kind of gray area

[00:34:59] now that now people have no problem with having, implying that people are half-naked or having a

[00:35:09] violence at a crime scene, but they won't push the language envelope. They'll go into political

[00:35:14] or social topics, but they got to, I think from all minds is one of the few who can do that, but

[00:35:19] then there's like some other ones that are just like, oh, yeah, if this wasn't highly rated, I don't

[00:35:24] think they'd go there, you know? Yeah, the, it was, and it was interesting because these do, these

[00:35:33] stories in particular, they do have kind of, they have a specific time in the, the television run

[00:35:42] to like hook themselves on to. So as soon as you get done, as soon as you get done with a blue

[00:35:46] beginning, you can watch the pilot, and I did that just to see what it's like and it was, yeah,

[00:35:53] yeah, and it's also strained how you're, I'm watching it, and then it gets to the first NYPD

[00:36:00] blue sex scene, and it's very, very cheesy. Yeah, the saxophone is too much. And watching that,

[00:36:10] I'm like, man, and then I remember very vividly coming home one day at my roommates were watching

[00:36:16] American Horror Story, and it was the season about, I think there was a serial killer attacking gay men

[00:36:24] in New York. Oh, I thought that was every season. And there was a scene that's just nearly hardcore

[00:36:33] gay simulated sex, as you expect, and I won Murphy. And I walk in and I look at that and I'm like,

[00:36:42] and they were so mad at NYPD blue, when it was always so tender, and cheesy, and weird, and like,

[00:36:50] soft filtered, and, yeah, and now we're at this age where it's like, that's, that was just on

[00:36:57] television at one point. And now, we've seen more violence on us soap opera. Yeah, it's interesting

[00:37:03] how people are watching the same thing, but through different lenses and everything,

[00:37:08] it's wild to how you got to kind of sugarcoat it a bit. I mean, Star Wars is a freaking toy

[00:37:15] commercial, because there's all this nostalgia built up from it. All these years ago, people

[00:37:19] want to make it something different, you know? Oh, yeah. And I think it's some of the same. It's

[00:37:26] interesting how FX will do something gruesome or edgy, and yet people want to act like it's

[00:37:33] something different than that. It's like, I don't know, guys. It's, it's really not that different.

[00:37:39] Not really. And it's also,

[00:37:44] So.

[00:37:44] [BLANK_AUDIO]

[00:37:52] Because these are the things that we read. It's so specific to a specific time in media where they're like we have something popular. Let's branch out. You know what's hot novels.

[00:38:02] You know what's hot like tic-tock tie-ins or you know what's hot right now influencers talking about your show in 45 second increments while they're eating Taco Bell and sponsored by Taco Bell hashtag.

[00:38:22] Right. And it's just so funny that, like especially NYPD Blue, it's such a specific time. And then we're kind of we have these modern takes on it with podcasts and we're reading kind of.

[00:38:41] It's like to kids nowadays I say kids, the kids nowadays it's like we're talking about, like terrestrial radio, it's like wait, they had physical paperback novels based on your television show.

[00:38:55] Right. It's like yeah. Yeah, we read them. Like, we didn't listen to them as a podcast series we read them.

[00:39:05] Oh yeah, the gleam off them yeah.

[00:39:09] You didn't chat in them at your work from home job no we went to a physical place.

[00:39:15] Yeah it's just it's just insane.

[00:39:18] And I said it before but it's a bummer, it's a bummer that Max Allen Collins didn't get to make more. I kind of wish.

[00:39:26] I've given more stories based on some later season stuff.

[00:39:32] Or more, some, or if he had another crack at Simone kind of get that character.

[00:39:39] Maybe mail down, but.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:42] I mean, have the time I don't even know what is meant to generate a good cell half the time.

[00:39:49] These different books and everything I mean, I have pals on this other podcast called the shattered shield which examines the similar edgy show the shield.

[00:39:59] And like you guys they did a good job of talking about just under pop culture savvy stuff instead of just relying on to have you or have you not seen the show and it was good at just, they do a good job of also kind of outlining that.

[00:40:14] And so, half the time when someone does a tie in no one really has a set expectation either. And so you're just like so.

[00:40:24] What did you want from this.

[00:40:27] Yeah, and, and I think with with age.

[00:40:33] Because I remember, I remember when I was younger and I would get so passionate about.

[00:40:39] Iterations of Batman or sequels to this, or part like franchise was doing this and.

[00:40:46] And as I got older, I kind of cooled down on that.

[00:40:50] And I have more of a let's see what they do. And then let's just be honest about how we feel about it. But let's not attack them or attack what they did exactly.

[00:41:03] That's not about what it is. Yeah, let's let's they do something like horrendous but, you know, the jolt Schumacher nipples and Tim Burton's lack of flop and plan to the apes like that type of, that type of stuff you're allowed to get a little hyperbolic and kind of shit on as people

[00:41:26] go on because it's bad it's horrible but with something like this I was like, good on them for keeping the tone.

[00:41:35] Keeping it interesting. You mentioned that you couldn't really put the first book down the law and order one. Yeah, once.

[00:41:42] Like, like once I got into the plot of this which starts really fast I was like yeah I'm just going to keep reading until it's over because it felt, it felt to me like oh it's it's like a movie length version of an episode, which is

[00:41:58] something I always would want anyway so why not, why not finish it. Why not make just to that yeah.

[00:42:06] Oh man.

[00:42:09] Do you have anything I'm coming you'd like to promote as well.

[00:42:13] Oh yes absolutely so I'm NYPD blue balls is out every other Tuesday, where you find a podcast but every Sunday morning, Wednesday night and Monday night. I'm streaming over at twitch twitch.tv/curtcast glasses

[00:42:33] and I don't know when this will come out I imagine it'll come out after this happens. So I'll leave a breakpoint but

[00:42:43] on November 4 of this year I'm going to be participating in extra life, which is

[00:42:50] a streaming event where people stream for 24 straight hours to raise money for children's miracle network so the money goes to children's hospitals.

[00:43:00] So on November 1 on November 4 I'm going to be doing a 24 hour stream, watching 24 hours of public domain movies.

[00:43:09] Because on the on the stream on Mondays I usually watch a public domain movie.

[00:43:14] And on Wednesdays and Sundays I play video games and so I'm watching all of the best movies I've seen so far on the stream I'm re watching them for 24 straight hours so if anyone's available twitch.tv/curtcast glasses.

[00:43:29] So it's worth all day and then Mondays Wednesdays and Sundays.

[00:43:36] Lovely.

[00:43:41] And you guys are in the so many other big different movies and shows and I promise we'll have you on for those as well.

[00:43:50] That isn't interesting how people can kind of choose what they want to do when they want to, you know, there's never really a rush, you know, if you love something enough, you know, you're going to cover everything up whenever.

[00:44:04] Yeah, and one of the, because I think I mentioned it it's so weird because I think we mentioned it on the first time we were on the show.

[00:44:14] But I have re I have re watched that Batman movie the Robert Pattinson Batman movie, only because it's on HBO Max, and because I can throw it on thinking like oh just have it on the background next thing I know I watch all three hours of it.

[00:44:31] And how that's so different.

[00:44:34] Like is even even thinking about the physical media, like, if you wanted to watch Titanic, you still had to put in a VHS and take it out and put in a different VHS.

[00:44:46] Like there was a time where it wasn't so easy to just be scrolling through HBO Max Hulu.

[00:44:56] And he wanted those streaming services and just go like Ernest goes to camp. I haven't seen that and forever that can't possibly hold up. I'll just put it on.

[00:45:08] All I have to do with press play. And next thing you know you're watching movies that maybe shouldn't exist anymore but they're just available on these random streaming services and it's, it's a, it's insane what you might get into which you might get passionate about all of a sudden.

[00:45:25] So, yeah, and there's no right or wrong way to go about it either. I mean if you want to have it on the background and then watch it again the next day with closer examination that'll definitely have it.

[00:45:39] Oh yeah.

[00:45:41] Oh yeah, absolutely.

[00:45:49] This has been a delight having you on and I, absolutely.

[00:45:58] And all the other I mean I, I hope podcasters even get comfortable just doing more fun collaborations I've seen.

[00:46:08] I see some people who are like shy to be on someone else's show and it's like well it's going to really get really lonely there.

[00:46:16] It's a, like I've had, I had an old friend of mine reach out to be on their show. I was like I'll just give it a shot. And then once things died down I could be here.

[00:46:28] It's also you know, that's really the only way you can keep it interesting I think it's because most, most of us we get into our grooves and then it's just that groove for a couple years.

[00:46:42] Yeah, like oh yeah I've been doing the same thing over and over so yeah I mean, hopefully, hopefully it promotes more synergy as corporate speak would say synergy and, and whatnot.

[00:47:03] Yeah, absolutely. And, you want to come out your show once a while and keep the voices fresh and new and those guests that just still the show, you know I see some people getting intimidated and like it's not, they're not threatening your insecurity.

[00:47:19] There's nothing to be jealous about they're just, we're getting good.

[00:47:23] Guests to have fun.

[00:47:25] Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

[00:47:28] You always got to just shoot the shot you never know what you might find out.

[00:47:32] Yeah, it's not, it's not a contest.

[00:47:35] Really isn't.

[00:47:38] If it was a contest I mean 99.9% of us are already losing see my little lose having fun.

[00:47:46] Why not.

[00:47:53] But all together I mean, it is just, there's somebody to be gained from just having a fun sit down you you will remember that conversation till the end of the time you'll be like hey I hope someone else can hear it because again this is like radio but you can listen to it whenever.

[00:48:10] Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Trus. Yeah, my buddies. My buddies show which is the link the link dot FM.

[00:48:22] They, they tried to model it after like terrestrial radio where all their guests are actually Collins.

[00:48:29] And I couldn't help myself making jokes about how hilarious it is to model it after a medium that that the medium you're currently using kind of killed in some ways.

[00:48:42] It's like yeah we're on terrestrial radio which almost doesn't exist anymore.

[00:48:47] Due to podcasts like the one you're listening to.

[00:48:51] But it's yeah. You never know what kind of conversation you could have and what kind of what kind of fun could be had.

[00:48:58] Oh well and why not yourself some fun as long as you don't.

[00:49:03] And I think it's a bit of a skill you.

[00:49:06] I think half of us should be able to get to that point where we know not only.

[00:49:12] What are our passions.

[00:49:14] Coming alive. But also, you know it's like hey, have we, you should be able to kind of gauge we got a little deep there versus we got really off topic.

[00:49:28] Yeah, true.

[00:49:30] I think that's, I think that's one of the reasons.

[00:49:36] One of the reasons that the NYPD blue show happened.

[00:49:41] Was because we, we used to have a show where we talk about anything.

[00:49:45] And then those would kind of me and her and you wouldn't really have a point.

[00:49:49] And then sometimes it would kind of just bring the whole showdown.

[00:49:52] And then I noticed, and then I noticed every time we talked about NYPD blue we'd end up rewatching it. We talk about specific episodes and characters.

[00:50:00] And then it was like well why don't we just shift it to that because as far as I know nobody's talking about it.

[00:50:05] But it does deserve it in some, in some way, it does deserve.

[00:50:10] At least somebody going through it and talking about its flaws and its achievements and.

[00:50:18] And it was, I mean, years and years into it it's like yeah it's still interesting to talk about it's still.

[00:50:25] And one thing that started happening.

[00:50:28] I want to say two weeks ago.

[00:50:31] And why PD blue celebrated the 20th anniversary of its pilot.

[00:50:36] Oh lovely.

[00:50:37] And.

[00:50:39] 20 or 30.

[00:50:41] Yeah, I think it's 30 30th anniversary of the pilot.

[00:50:44] And what was interesting was everybody who wrote an article about it.

[00:50:48] There's one on IGN and there was one I think some entertainment website that can't remember.

[00:50:55] But each.

[00:50:57] Each article.

[00:51:00] Had to spend a moment to explain why the show is problematic.

[00:51:07] It was almost like, it was almost like their way of saying like here, you know what, celebrating NYPD blue 30 years of the pilot.

[00:51:16] A show that really, you know, it was a trailblazer a change the way television dramas were made.

[00:51:22] I want a ton of awards and then there would always be it would get to that paragraph where it's just like okay well.

[00:51:28] We have to acknowledge that we can't fully support the show because it does some things that might offend you.

[00:51:33] We'll return after these messages.

[00:51:38] Hey, it's Brent Pope to host a breakfast with Brent Pope.

[00:51:41] You've seen me on some of your favorite TV shows saying things like give it up Jimmy.

[00:51:45] You got to sync this put to win on breakfast with Brent Pope.

[00:51:48] I sit down with guests for the entertainment world and we do it all over breakfast.

[00:51:51] Or should I say breakfast every week on breakfast you get inside Hollywood info and tips.

[00:51:56] Great breakfast, wrecks and booty debates, most of all you get the most delightful 30 minutes of your week.

[00:52:01] So dig in, it's Brentfest time. Listen at Brentfest.com Apple podcast or wherever fine podcasts are found.

[00:52:08] Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win a fight between Goku and Superman?

[00:52:13] Hi, I'm James Gavsy and on The Who Would Win show me and my co-host Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world

[00:52:19] and debate fictional battles between characters from comics, movies and video games.

[00:52:23] We get a new show every week and almost always am I the winner?

[00:52:26] Not true Ray.

[00:52:27] In the past, we've discussed such matches as Captain America versus Darth Vader, Solid Snake versus the Iron Giant,

[00:52:34] Classic matchups like Robocop versus Terminator, and even the Muppets versus Sesame Street.

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[00:52:42] So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate, check out The Who Would Win show wherever you get your podcasts

[00:52:48] or check us out at whowouldwinshow.com

[00:52:51] And I was like, guys, like, I feel like that's almost, and maybe it's just kind of a thing where you can't assume.

[00:53:01] But it's almost like something you have to assume about any show that's over 20 years old.

[00:53:08] Hell, even like 10 years old, where you're like, oh, the language has changed, the culture has changed.

[00:53:15] The opinions have changed, and that's okay. It was a piece of art from that time.

[00:53:21] We don't have to distance ourselves from it, while talking about it, so that people don't have to seek this out.

[00:53:28] You know, even with the violence in society, because it's very much still a social commentary on that kind of thing.

[00:53:36] I don't understand why everything should just be tucked away and forgotten about, you know, especially when it was on the air for 12 years.

[00:53:46] I, yeah.

[00:53:49] And one thing that was crazy about these books that I didn't even realize until I skim through them.

[00:53:57] The plot of these books are about organized crime.

[00:54:06] Well, it seems, it seems awful to say child pornography and the adult entertainment business.

[00:54:15] It's also, it's also, it's also about internal affairs and corrupt cops.

[00:54:20] And it's about wealthy getting away with a murder or covering up a murder.

[00:54:25] And all of that is still things that we are dealing with as a society today.

[00:54:31] Yeah, it's, it's not like those things are buried in the past. It's just the language used to talk about those things are now buried in the past and are considered a faux pas.

[00:54:44] But it's like, these are still, and this is still an issue that we need to, we need to talk about and work through.

[00:54:53] And we don't need to talk about the way.

[00:54:56] Sippowitz describes a gay man in the book, which is not very nice.

[00:55:00] I can agree. It's not nice. It's kind of uncool.

[00:55:04] But he said that as an off color joke.

[00:55:08] When he was talking about a man that was trying to murder him and his wife.

[00:55:14] Who was paid by an organized crime boss to be to murder them. So it's like.

[00:55:21] We can focus on the things that'll upset you, or we can adjust knowing that was the time it was made and move forward. And I think, I don't know, I think that's what our podcast kind of hopes to do in some ways.

[00:55:38] Let you enjoy something that may have things about it that are not really appropriate for the time.

[00:55:46] But it's still a good piece of work.

[00:55:49] Well, and at least this character.

[00:55:53] You know, it has their flaws examined instead of just letting them continually get away with murder, you know, like we seem to want all these other characters to do nowadays and it's frustrating.

[00:56:04] Oh, yeah. There was, there was, there was a line that I almost wanted to like highlight in the book, because it was so funny.

[00:56:13] Where, because these two books highlight characters on the show. And since the show lasted so long, some of those characters are not around by the time you had to halfway through the halfway through the series.

[00:56:27] But one of the characters that has a brief interaction is John Irving, who is the civilian aid.

[00:56:37] - Yeah, the receptionist.

[00:56:39] and John Ervin is a gay man and in the book it's literally written "Sippewitz fights his homophobic urges to allow John to give him free haircuts from time to time." Yeah and it was like it was like holy shit it's just outlining that yeah his character is a homophobe but he likes the benefits of getting free haircuts and he's learning to accept John very very slowly.

[00:57:08] And then by the end of that series if you watch the show, John is like his main babysitter, him and John are very close and they've been through crazy things together.

[00:57:21] And it's just crazy because it's like yeah if you read that you'll be like wow what a bastard. It says he's a homophobe and uses this gay man for free haircuts and it's like yeah but watch about seven more seasons after that point and see where he is with John

[00:57:40] and with other people in his life it's a very very different man but him examining that and getting better it's good stuff, it's good stuff.

[00:57:57] Don't live. Hey, and hopefully we can keep discovering some of this old media and just not have it be lost the time.

[00:58:07] I think it's great podcasters Jeff again and company who you know they have all these different Star Trek podcasts including Starship leadership and the greatest generation but they have started their own podcast bow one five for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast.

[00:58:24] And I'm really seeing them talk about the show that you know about one five which is share some of these same cast members but kind of like you they're looking at a 90s show that they just unfortunately they heard about but never saw

[00:58:39] and they're looking at with modern day eyes and I think it's very awesome because it kind of came into it with my same eyes like hey okay so it's really no different than battle star and Star Wars and track and

[00:58:51] and it's just, it's just you gotta be a little patient some of the Marines kind of feel like aliens and predator kind of knockoffs and

[00:59:01] obviously the graphics didn't hold up, but you forgive it because as a TV show and the plot is engaging enough that you have to kind of just let the Roger core menesh you know schlocky look just kind of

[00:59:15] you know it's, and unfortunately the hardest thing to do is to introduce people to it because like any show it's going to start off rough or it's going to get your attention but still have some cheesy moments.

[00:59:29] So it's, we've, as society, we've kind of become almost, we become just a collection of the things we consume because that's the best way to put it.

[00:59:47] So like, like every single thing we consume is like documented some way. So it's like, oh I have a letterbox oh I mentioned that on Instagram would be and me be a snob on here.

[00:59:59] And so, and so when when you, when you refer somebody to your favorite show, or you suggest your favorite show. It does reveal something about yourself.

[01:00:12] So fun is like, people go like you watch show and like NYPD blue, you may have never heard of it. It's one of the best shows ever made.

[01:00:22] And then they start watching it and they're like you like this show with all the cursing and the weird racial slurs and this.

[01:00:29] Yeah, but it gets really, really good. And it's a really well written story and they're like, what are your other favorite shows and I'm like, well, South Park, which kind of does the same thing with children and animated form.

[01:00:41] And then they're like what what else and I'm like, uh, it's always sunny which it's also about really promising will do an episode on it.

[01:00:49] Yeah, I know that that's a per those are both perfect examples of you can tell how many times people have actually seen it versus just casually with instead and saw.

[01:01:00] I mean, I had this thing where my sister and I tried to get some relatives and our folks into Archer.

[01:01:08] And they kept seeing one of the weaker just more infamous episodes and I was just like well, I give up.

[01:01:15] You know, I wanted to spend the time. And I'm done explaining this shit to you, you know, and, and, yeah, if you're not going to give it a time of day then just some fucking bother but that's where you gotta be you gotta set your foot down like I cannot

[01:01:29] for the life of me to various extents is.

[01:01:32] I can't stand walking dead. I can't stop stand stranger things and I am not a mentioned horror story I'm not a Ryan Murphy guy and I'm sure as hell not a game of phones guy because the end,

[01:01:44] the last three seasons were just good completely just on involving and at just made me go why did I waste nearly a decade watching this.

[01:01:57] Not well put together show and yet you have to be ready to break it down and obviously some people will be forgiving.

[01:02:06] And it really even makes me wonder, you know, you can always tell who's watching it versus who's actually examining it like who's watching like a Marvel or Star Trek show for light entertainment versus actually engaging it and can break down the pros and cons and you just

[01:02:23] leave it as it is, it's like they're either going to get complex or you're not.

[01:02:32] Yeah, it's so fun. You mentioned walking dead because I stopped I stopped at a very specific time.

[01:02:40] It seems like it seems like no matter when you say you stopped, they'll say like oh but it gets better and I'm like well yes.

[01:02:49] Okay. And, and I did not like that it went downhill.

[01:02:54] Yeah, and I do feel like NYPD Blue comes out guns blazing I think always sunny to some extent, but what is interesting is, I think what happened to me was, I got burned by a little show called lost.

[01:03:13] He has said it pretty much goes like that. I mean what we had one of our other recurring guests on to talk about the, we love doing villains specials on TV shows and movies and we decided let's talk about the villains of the burn notice and we talked about

[01:03:29] what kinds of villains that really did kind of wreck their respective show like, I like prison break. There's in fact it's got a lot of the same actors is in my beauty blue but you know I came into it after the fact after the fandom had died down after

[01:03:46] people still couldn't agree or disagree on what was the best or worse season.

[01:03:51] And I, but I pretty much came into it and said, okay, I'll watch this season again. Okay, that was okay but I'm not going to watch that particular season again. But it was with 2019 not 2018 eyes versus, you know, back when it was raw fresh and new.

[01:04:09] And you kind of do have to do a bit of that and one of my pals summed up, you know, walking dead pretty much leaned on what plot device villain, can we include and the governor's kind of been criticized as that, you know, where you really don't

[01:04:24] know why, what makes him tick. And even when he gets his come up and with his eyes getting ripped out and everything just like still, I don't feel anything. I don't feel satisfaction. I don't feel sorry in some capacity not that you should.

[01:04:41] I just feels like this is just becoming a really stupid exploitation movie on a big budget.

[01:04:48] And, and there are like the specific thing that happened with lost was, I had never watched it. And then my buddy in college, got all the DVDs as a gift, because he was watching it religiously when it was going to be.

[01:05:05] And he was like, do you want to do you want to watch him and I was like, yeah, I've heard good things my brother watches that he kind of likes it and so I turned it on and I was like, this show is pretty good.

[01:05:15] And then it got to a point where I watched season three, I watched the DVDs of last season three in two days.

[01:05:25] And I was like 24 episodes. And because I was just like, I gotta keep watching gotta keep watching gotta keep watching. And then I was watching the last season live on TV with somebody else who had watched it the whole time.

[01:05:40] And we watched that final episode and we looked at each other and we were like, that sucked.

[01:05:46] And it also, it also had that thing where it the media started giving you like tidbits about shows.

[01:05:55] Before we had, like, people interacting on Twitter saying, hey, can you change that and the writers take notes. Yeah.

[01:06:03] So like, because right now, and it's one thing I kind of hate.

[01:06:07] And that just, it always makes me sound like a dude on the porch telling the kids to get off his lawn but I hate it.

[01:06:14] Like, I hate the fact that leaking details about your movie is now a part of your.

[01:06:22] Oh, I'm so showed up at this. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a part of your advertisement for the movie to say like, Oh, we might do this much like the trailer.

[01:06:33] It pulls a Deadpool and has shit that's not even in it.

[01:06:37] And no joke, the people who are making loss at the time said, Hey, we just asked things ABC. We just asked ABC if we could have our finale be two and a half hours.

[01:06:49] And I'm like, if they're asking for that, they're going to do some crazy stuff. So watching that two and a half hour finale and a whole lot of nothing interesting happened.

[01:07:00] And what the hell. Yeah. And then it doesn't answer any of your questions. And you're just like, why did we waste all these years watching this.

[01:07:11] I'm just like, I'm just like trying to justify that final season I'm like, no, no, no, don't pull, don't go into Matt Weiner and companies.

[01:07:21] Bullshit. They did that to hurt you. That that's not acceptable. They, they said, we don't like our fans so we're going to give them a mush, you know, a shit sandwich. I'm like, why.

[01:07:32] And don't be wrong, there are going to be times where you're going to just, I mean, you and I have done this with this NYPD blue show the same deal.

[01:07:39] And it's been 24 seasons that not everyone likes I like, I like all of odds, and I know that sacrilege some people like to bitch at it midway for season four because of a key death and I, I like kind of the sarcasticness.

[01:07:53] Irony and a lot of those other shows that are much like this loosely connected to the same elsewhere along or reverse but you got to just stand on your own two feet and say what you want.

[01:08:05] But I think people mistake that for one to be a dick or go on a rant is like, no, I don't want the Star Wars Marvel DC fanboy. I want you, I want you to justify what you do and don't like.

[01:08:17] I like later seasons incredible minds. I think I used to Tyler was wonderful and it got back to being what it had been in the first five years where it was engaging anthology mixed in with action, or in mystery.

[01:08:29] But I think also a lot of people will mindlessly watch these shows just because they like the actor and then once that actor inevitably is going to leave, because it's been, you know, so many years that then then that's when the brick house comes tumbling down.

[01:08:45] Yeah.

[01:08:47] Oh yeah.

[01:08:48] And sci-fi and fantasy is definitely no.

[01:08:52] No different.

[01:08:55] Like, and this is before we were looking at Facebook and people were posting spoilers and we were like, damn you, I haven't watched that episode yet.

[01:09:06] Yeah, you've mentioned Star Wars a couple of times. I cannot put in your and putting your foot down.

[01:09:15] And then I decided, I'm not going to watch any Star Wars stuff. And it wasn't anything to do with Star Wars itself. It was the fact that I've watched the last Jedi.

[01:09:28] And I was talking with my friends about it and everyone was super cool and cordial and nice to each other and nobody was like angry.

[01:09:35] And so an action figure had to and became a five year old again.

[01:09:42] We were very much like, well, there were some things I didn't like there were things I liked. I enjoyed this idea. I thought that was an odd choice. But I was also sitting there like, okay, you know, they, they, they, they swung for the fences and some people are going to think they hit a home run.

[01:09:57] And I think they struck out that's fine. But then I went online. And I started reading what people were saying and like the 45 minute diatribe about every aspect of that movie, and talking about Oh my gosh, we'll compare that to force away against

[01:10:14] that. And I was like, you know what, I, I think I'm just done with this altogether your exam. And it's like, everyone, it's like if someone, if a bunch of neighbors gather to for a party and one of them brings you cupcakes and the other bring you all that fancy

[01:10:34] and then you know, I think it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, well, apples and oranges. It's none of this is good for you. So why are we even here.

[01:10:43] And I, and I was like, okay, well, what is different between Star Wars and everything else is like, everybody is so passionate and angry. And I mean absolutely no offense when I say this. It's Star Wars.

[01:10:58] It's a rip off of samurai movies. I love it all growing up. And I just kind of got to that point where I was like, honestly, Star Wars is just beginner level.

[01:11:09] Like that's hooked on phonics level that you should be by this point.

[01:11:14] And if you have all you watch, you'll never really I find be as developed as a person, you've got to be able to go above and through and seek out all other kinds of content and material and get better with themes, you know, it's just the tip of the iceberg.

[01:11:31] So I think there's a lot of other people who, some of these are internet trolls who only want everything to be kind of undeveloped or mindless and it's like, well, you're never going to get fully mindless. Sorry, it's not going to happen.

[01:11:45] Because I'm I'm four, I'm four examining whatever you want to examine and like I, I did it with, and people laugh all the time I did it with like fast and furious movies.

[01:11:57] Or it's like, just, just examining, like, while it is absolutely I promise you all about ranking at that franchise.

[01:12:07] Like it's bonkers and terrible and just action fluff, but it is amazing to just look at how expertly crafted a very simple franchise it is.

[01:12:20] It's the modern front. I don't think they even understand how so famous, because it's a been rebooted, like six times, and then it's kind of the best well known.

[01:12:37] I'm not saying guilty pleasure because I don't, you shouldn't have to feel guilty about anything but it is kind of that the most mainstream trashy franchise kind of like saw like you will see equal parts people seeing it to hate watch it versus watch it in a mindless.

[01:12:53] And then you just like to kind of way and then, and then you get other people who are just, they just want an excuse to go to the cinema with their date. That's going to be picked. So it is.

[01:13:05] I never really know what kind of audience you're in with. I mean, it's kind of.

[01:13:11] It's like, you don't know how many hardcore Clive Barker, you know, sci-fi and horror guys are going to get there versus people who only watch it for the content and then I see a lot of the same with anything else from the Terminator to.

[01:13:29] It's just some other kind of Friday night slug fest, you know, I'm going to see, you know, these sequels to equalizer and expendables and I'm sure I'm going to get equal parts fun.

[01:13:42] People who want to see eighties nineties influence movies as well as snobs in the audience who this is not their cup of tea and you really don't know until you take.

[01:13:52] Take the take the ride. It's a. Yeah, it's just kind of the.

[01:14:01] When you're like talking about like the franchises and things you love and the things you're passionate about.

[01:14:07] And comparing it to like that Star Wars reaction to the last Jedi. It was like.

[01:14:14] Guys, you're allowed to just say I don't like this.

[01:14:18] And you could still buy all the Star Wars branded stuff you could still watch your old movies.

[01:14:24] Like a great example while moving I found we do have an original copy of the CBS Fox VHS Star Wars movies.

[01:14:35] And I'm like, I'm like, that's pretty cool because they don't even make these in this cut anymore.

[01:14:41] And it's like, oh, this would be a cool thing to throw on and watch. I would enjoy watching this. This would be a fun time. But I feel like that's different than the person spending $600 on a fake lightsaber.

[01:14:58] And I only use it once. And if you touch it. I just want to happen just to be a dick about it. And I think somewhere we got to be able to vet.

[01:15:08] Who is where's that toxicity coming from? Because it's not just parents who are working and leaving their kids up. You know, it's kind of goes back into the whole, you know, what do crime rates happen, you know, they don't happen because of video games

[01:15:23] and because of people using stuff in the wrong way, you know, for something else.

[01:15:30] And not, you know.

[01:15:32] Don't Know Consideration because they never been taught it. They've been left to their own devices literally.

[01:15:37] Yeah and like I don't know it's and it's so hard to because you don't want to tell anybody to not enjoy things a certain way but that's why like the catchphrase the catch was like the thing that the mantra I repeat on the stream is like do what you like but don't

[01:16:02] be a dick about it like like if you come over if you came over to my place I have a ton of Lego. I have a ton of Lego sets. I love making Lego sets. I feel like it's a great deal with de-stress and then at the end of it sometimes you have to make more instead of look who did tie into this.

[01:16:20] You know I always loved building our own characters, our own cities, our own buying custom you know add-ons for figurines that those were fun.

[01:16:30] Like one aspect of that is I never buy a Star Wars set or a Marvel set or what's another one. You like to support the underdogs that independent ones remind them hey don't don't sell out don't do just tie in.

[01:16:50] Well and the main reason is and it's very, it's a very I guess kind of my Missouri way to think about it or someone very cheap, cheap skateway.

[01:17:01] To me they're always going to make a new Star Wars set. So if you buy, like if you buy that Millennium Falcon they're going to make six more Millennium Falcons before you die.

[01:17:13] But when they come out and they say hey, we're making a bonds I tree. I'm like, they may never make a bonds I treat again and it looks pretty great I'm going to go buy that.

[01:17:24] But I'm never going to buy the thing that I know that they have seven editions of and I know they're going to make more.

[01:17:31] But I'm never going to sit on the guy that wants to buy the Lego sets that are absolutely want to build. Like that's what they want.

[01:17:42] They'll go with a thing which is always kind of a few kind of response and it's like no and just you speak, ultimately, with your wallet. They're going to keep making a billion things that you either trays or want to bash.

[01:18:00] I went on. What, where the check cleared. And, and so you know I did that this year I was like done with superhero films didn't like guardians free didn't like the flash. I've heard good stuff about blue beetle but I'm done for now.

[01:18:16] I'm just like, okay, cool, but I got to take a break and I've even talked to other podcasters who review comic book adaptations and they're like, yeah, we're going to review some of the older stuff like the rocket here or

[01:18:35] the restorative gentlemen or Constantine just something that's always been kind of a cold hit for better or worse, you know, and then we'll work our way up, you know, just let's let a decade go by first, you know, and that those have been fun too, because they've examined a lot of lesser known

[01:18:51] anime's and manga adaptations as well as just other movies, you know like judge dread that will always be like the newer one that.

[01:19:01] Oh yeah.

[01:19:03] But people forget is based on a comic after wall and that's kind of where I try to find a halfway point here I'm like, okay, how about I read you these comics that you didn't know that are based on some of this full moon entertainment stuff as well as.

[01:19:18] I'm going to go in franchise there's a lot of great Terminator comics which do a better job of showing that future world than any of the movies arguably so it's.

[01:19:29] Yeah, there's no limit to create a unless you want to put up a barricade and I get that it's easier said than done, trust me, it took me years to stop posting remarks and realizing wow that came off as unintentionally hurtful or snobby or

[01:19:45] you just like a hot take or like you just wanted to incite that.

[01:19:51] Hey, I like it. And you didn't even like the movie you know it's like don't unintentionally control don't deliberately troll don't even just decide whether you want to even waste time on this for the next 20 minutes you know.

[01:20:08] Because we talked about like letterbox and yeah like I use letterbox and what I tend to do is I keep my reviews to like less than a sentence.

[01:20:20] And yeah, I know what people are doing now the sarcastic would is kind of what they're going for.

[01:20:26] So, you know like if I, if I talk into this I'll keep going and like the ones that stick out in my mind are like, for example I went to see one of the fast movies, I think it was not.

[01:20:39] And all I wrote was magnets how the fuck did they work.

[01:20:43] And use magnets a lot and magnets don't work like that. So I was like, as I was like, as I was sitting there like I could write an entire thing about the franchise has lost its mind.

[01:20:57] It now just fully embraces that reality is a concept makeup on your own.

[01:21:04] Don't matter and facts don't matter and they really are just having fun.

[01:21:09] And I could just say what like the thing I thought about so watching this movie which is just they don't understand magnets like they don't understand the basic.

[01:21:19] Why would I love a magnet, and they use it to make a pretty awesome action scene that makes absolutely no sense.

[01:21:26] And that's all I thought of like and then another one that I think it's my most like review.

[01:21:34] The classic film Ernest in the army, man.

[01:21:39] And all I wrote was yeah it's basically the Hurt Walker.

[01:21:46] Ernest in the army. Perfect.

[01:21:49] One, one, because if anyone's ever watched both of those movies they're like that's absurd.

[01:21:55] And then it's true. It's like what can I say about Ernest in the army. Like, who cares. Like just acknowledging I watched it and thought it was funny.

[01:22:05] And you've already had comedy gold it's kind of like.

[01:22:09] It's basically the Hurt Walker.

[01:22:12] Yeah, it's to me.

[01:22:16] You can take that moment to shit on a movie.

[01:22:20] And you're just asking for someone to comment.

[01:22:25] And say something angry or disagree with you. And to me it's like, hey, they want validation but they don't even know why they want validation is like just open the dialogue to me.

[01:22:39] Yeah, for me letterbox is like hey I watched this movie, either liked it or I didn't. Here's my quick thought about it.

[01:22:46] I don't think I can get into a big discussion about it because what's the point who's got that kind of time. Yeah, right now.

[01:22:54] I'll do that in person, or maybe on stream or a podcast or something.

[01:23:00] Yeah, who knows.

[01:23:03] This has been delight. Like to say, you kind of take baby steps after a while is like.

[01:23:10] This is going to require way more time. We're going to break this down, you know, and

[01:23:15] I find this also with podcasting I'll see some people who clearly have a voice for it but they don't.

[01:23:20] For that or radio but they're not sure they are as detailed or just too kind of like some of these creators that are too close to what they're working on and you're just like.

[01:23:29] Trust me, you fill up the room, you have no idea so I think if anything we can just make each other more self aware.

[01:23:36] We'll just get grow, grow more as people, whether it's talking to you about a music concert you just got back from or carnival you took your kids to, you know, it's like that.

[01:23:48] That alone brought something out of you for better or worse but you learned the more you can work on yourself, the more you can help others.

[01:23:57] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:23:59] I think that's ultimately what I want from entertainment was like hey, yeah you know that there was plenty of times where I went to a movie event I had zero interest in going but it was just an excuse to go out of the house spend time with brother and sister.

[01:24:14] And it didn't matter that, you know, when on the drive home, brother was praising and sister was passionate I was like, hey, it didn't matter. I had zero interest in this I'm just glad I got to hang out with you guys for two and a half hours.

[01:24:31] Just like going to the mall. Yeah. Um, and something else you mentioned kind of about looking into other things and other mediums.

[01:24:43] That's one of the cool things about watching public domain movies. Oh yes.

[01:24:49] Like, because when I tried to do this month because right now we're recording in October right now I'm doing only horror movies, but I usually do.

[01:24:59] Yeah, I usually do like a horror movie or sci-fi movie and then next week I'll do a drama or a comedy like I tried to go up like back and forth.

[01:25:09] But sometimes you, you can find some movies that have just been forgotten to time that are really good in their own ways.

[01:25:18] And the only reason no one's ever watched them is just because it was made in 1956. And the copyright is lost and nobody knows about it. But some people on the Internet just threw it up. It's great.

[01:25:34] Someone to go to stash.

[01:25:38] The online community who loves public domain movies was like, well, we got to get this rip to the Internet and they get it out to you. It's really cool. It's a great way to find new things for free.

[01:25:52] You lose nothing.

[01:25:54] Sure, there's nothing at all. It was time, but you got to be prepared for that anyway. I will see so many people say, I want my time back. I'm like, then spend it wisely.

[01:26:05] Yeah, so just being angry all the time. You chose to put that on dipshit.

[01:26:13] And something I've said to people because I enjoy watching a bad movie, just like a good movie. And they say, how could you watch bad movies? And I say, a bad movie shows you what you like about good movies.

[01:26:28] Correct. And maybe you need a little more Elvira, Joe Bob, Svingouli, Mr. Science Theater in your life. You know, but yeah, it is a good intro to where it's like half your ideas that we see in a movie or show might, you know, I love it when the critic breaks down.

[01:26:48] Something in a movie saying this would probably work better as a CSI episode or this would be better as a mini series, or I might have liked it better as a shameless B picture because then I could forgive the flaws.

[01:27:02] But there was no, that wasn't the case here, this had no reason to be this poorly developed plot wise and have, I mean, half the time I was, I think I was just very B movie savvy because half the time you would see a mainstream movie.

[01:27:18] Like, well, that wasn't much different than a, you know, it's going to match for a or a stupid sci fi channel movie but it had five times the budget and a big name.

[01:27:28] After fighting the creatures so I guess it's, what's otherwise a generic, what could be a Roger Corman esque creature feature of the 50s became the newest, you know, box office.

[01:27:42] Yeah, but it was shinier. Yeah, but it's the old story book, you know, let the cat out of the bag.

[01:27:50] Yeah, I also watch Jurassic World and theaters. I know.

[01:27:56] Yeah, and I think that that also, those in Terminator Genesis, or as Genesis, as I call it, this kind of came in at the opera time where everyone was trying to do a forced kind of homage.

[01:28:11] Oh, yeah, I feel like people have even started on what is a homage anymore is like, versus a tribute and I'm like, people are doing this with the world bill now and I'm like, yes, you know it's, it's all the above.

[01:28:24] It's.

[01:28:26] It's a mixed bag of everything. I mean, Tarantino is another one who drives people crazy to where I'm like, what are we doing here guys.

[01:28:34] I think, I think Jurassic World in the theater was the last time.

[01:28:39] I got that like, what's what's the way to describe it, that like, impotent rage.

[01:28:47] That you might get in a movie, and it burns after a while where you're like, oh, yeah. Well, I made, I made the mistake I watched Jurassic Park before seeing it.

[01:28:57] And I was like, you know what dress for all them he watched Jurassic Park this classic, kind of timeless holds up in a weird way. Somehow it does. The sequels never figured it out.

[01:29:11] And then, and then I watched Jurassic World and as I left with my friend that I watched it I was like that was horrible. That was a terrible movie.

[01:29:19] And it's also shitting on the legacy of like one of the best movies of all time, it's worse than those sequels, worse than the sequels ever did. And I'm like, oh, it was fun. And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about like that was, that was really bad.

[01:29:34] And then I think that was another point where it was like, instead of getting angry and just and shitting on it, just so you know what, I'm going to watch any more of them.

[01:29:46] I didn't enjoy it. I'm not going to see any sequels. I'm not going to watch it again. Yeah, we briefly touched on those in a monster movie special talking about everything from anaconda to like placid to see franchises.

[01:30:00] And it is one of those where I'm like, because there are plenty of other franchises where I only liked like the first or two, you know, one to two movies and then I could still find something to talk about in the imperfect sequels.

[01:30:14] And I think one of those where I'm like see the sequels are such a blemish compared to the original I just can't bring myself to do another constructive take down on that particular franchise so I will, you know, and I think most people have.

[01:30:30] It's also kind of one of those most people have kind of already made up their mind on it.

[01:30:35] Three, it's kind of even hard to talk about it passionately about for X amount of time so you kind of pretty much got to get to that point.

[01:30:42] Um, you know, it's kind of like when we're talking about stats and algorithms with all this different social media entertainment no one knows how it works so just go for it this guy's the limit, just keep doing it until you don't want to do it anymore.

[01:30:57] Yeah. Well, I guess I'm live I guess I'm on TV. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no idea how much forward I was looking forward to this and it's always light having you on here.

[01:31:12] I'm not. I'm just so tired to send so many radio and satellite and podcast shows where it just sounds like everyone just hates each other and just wants to get into a debate, just to make ratings and so I love it window if we're actually engaging with each other.

[01:31:29] You know, don't get anyone hurt. Yeah. Yeah, that tick tock trend is amazing, where it's just two people. They disagree on something and go back and forth arguing. It's like, yeah, what do you guys talk about.

[01:31:45] You can see it's like, oh, why are you asking me secure I'm going to put you down on social media. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like, all right.

[01:31:57] But yeah, this has been a good time.

[01:32:00] What were we talking about we're talking about books right now, based on shows and seeing how they did. Yeah.

[01:32:10] Yeah, you know, keep up. The thing I always leave, and I said it earlier, do what you like via dick about it and keep up.

[01:32:19] Keep exploring. Keep exploring, you know, new mediums. Like, I, this one also makes me sad. It always makes me sound weird. I don't always.

[01:32:29] I'm not reading all the time. What happens to get like a bug, where it's just like, I want to read five Stephen King books and I don't know why.

[01:32:36] And then I'll read them, and then I won't read for like two years, and then all of a sudden they'll be like, you know, I never read Lord of the Rings.

[01:32:46] And then, and then, and then I'll, so this was a fun time because it was so close to the show that I'm constantly making NYPD blue ball so this is a good time. So thanks for having me having me in time.

[01:33:02] Yeah, yeah, we want to have just something kind of just to kind of just clean onto and you will see some people where it's just like they want to just kind of.

[01:33:15] Complain for the hell of it. It's like, yeah, what are we doing here.

[01:33:19] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[01:33:22] Don't sweat the small stuff.

[01:33:25] Absolutely. Thanks for, thanks again.

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