Classic Comedy Week: Best Boston Legal Moments (with Happiest Sad Person’s Alessandra Jacobs!)

[00:00:30] Hey, yo! I'm your host, Soli. And here we are for another groovy time. The optimist herself, who preaches such on the happiest said person podcast. Yes, I've heard it's a fun, fun show. As real as it gets, I'll say it's a great show.

[00:01:00] And Sandra Jacobs is back in action. Thanks for having me. Always a good time.

[00:01:05] Anytime. So we were just talking about back and forth when we first networked a few different movies and shows.

[00:01:13] I was like, Hey, you know what? Here's a show we could revisit. We can just talk about our favorite moments from the one, the only David E. Kelly legal comedy that is Boston legal in his Boston verse.

[00:01:27] Who would have thought?

[00:01:29] It's such a good show and I haven't revisited in a while. So it was nice to come back to it because I don't know. It's something about those. I don't know what the magic was, but like the year 2003 to like 2009 10 for TV shows were just immaculate.

[00:01:49] Like it was West Wing Boston legal house.

[00:01:54] There were some other random like short one season shows that I watched as well. I don't know if it was because Bush was in office and we were all just like trying to make like good content.

[00:02:05] But I don't know what's your take on that?

[00:02:08] I think it's very much. It was bound to happen one way or another. It's just like, I think once we got to the 2000s people got their head out of, you know what, and just started paying more attention now I guess.

[00:02:22] And the show is still just referenced here and there and it's not just of any of the actors or anything like there was like during some of the Trump hearings someone took a Boston legal clip where someone set someone on fire and they did some Photoshop and everything.

[00:02:40] I was like, see people are actually listening and seeing how fiction mirrors reality.

[00:02:47] Even though I miss that I'm so bomb.

[00:02:50] I tried looking for the club. I don't know if someone pulled it or what but I was just like see hats off to anyone who made time for that.

[00:02:59] Well, I think it hit on like every major issue at the moment like they really was a show that they had their spin they had more of a leftist take but they still had Danny crane who was like the more like Reagan conservative who kind of like provided the opposite

[00:03:18] like the antagonistic side. So it was like just every issue you could think of death penalty abortion war.

[00:03:27] It hit everything but it did it in such a genuine real way.

[00:03:33] And I was in on the joke, you know, like, I was, well and I wasn't really into all in the family or theater one mirrored with children.

[00:03:44] And so I think that's cool as to those who do find entertaining. But at the same time they were in on the joke. I think I just got turned off because kind of like Rick and Morty it was attracting a lot of actual toxic people who are like my icon, and like, dude, you're not, you don't get the

[00:04:00] I'm sure any show that go ahead. Oh no sorry and I'm sure I'm sure, but I'm sure there's someone out there who wants to be a dinner crane. That's why you don't want to be like.

[00:04:13] True. I, he sort of, I don't want to make this comparison but I can't help because you said that he's sort of like maybe what Trump thinks he is.

[00:04:26] And yeah, competence.

[00:04:30] Obviously, Star Trek.

[00:04:34] Star Trek is like in his past and obviously in the real world but he has that like, I don't know like more of a debonair feeling and so it's almost like watching the trajectory of politics and sort of how Danny crane is more

[00:04:48] than just an additional conservative. It's like yeah, oh Trump thinks he's this guy, but he's really a buffoon because he's never in on his own stick it's above him.

[00:05:01] So I was like rewatching it there's like so many layers to it now. And there's like a sadness to it, because it's like you want to go back to that world.

[00:05:11] So it's so rewatching bits and pieces of it I'm like it's so relevant to today. It's just spooky.

[00:05:19] And the DVDs were so packed with so many special features. I know I re-saw it all the way through about three years ago, and I still am going to introduce people to it's still on Hulu and Amazon for those who want.

[00:05:31] And but I very much so is kind of just, I mean just that conversation I think they have in like either season one or two. Like they just have a speech where they explain themselves and you pretty much get the whole thing that like, Alan is just self loathing

[00:05:47] he's just like I really don't know why I do this anymore than that I can. It's just a no brainer I can do it.

[00:05:54] No problem I can destroy someone's life I'm a monster and and yeah Denny is the total just I'm a proud American and fuck you you know he's basically saying without realizing he's saying it.

[00:06:07] Okay, I don't know what you expect to gain from this but you do you boomer.

[00:06:15] Well, yeah that perfect generational divide because they are because what James James Spader and is in his early mid sixties and what William Shatner's what 90 something.

[00:06:34] Which is crazy and just went to space.

[00:06:38] And he's like sharp as attack because ironically he has a dementia or Alzheimer's early onset Alzheimer's in the show and it's like, meanwhile he's like doing so well in real life.

[00:06:50] But it's like that.

[00:06:51] Shameless, but even he is aware of his bullshit that he starts up once in a while that's just how much free time that man has.

[00:07:02] I, yeah, I just, and it reminds watching again rewatching because it's sometimes I rarely totally rewatch things or come back to things I sort of keep it in like my nostalgia brain.

[00:07:15] It just reminded me of how good that just the actors are like that era of acting and that caliber and even like the guest stars, everyone that came through was so just involved in the show everyone was doing giving their best acting.

[00:07:32] And I just feel like you don't see that anymore for TV.

[00:07:35] Yeah, like Valley kind of went back to being tough guy guys but he was perfect for the hot shot guy there. Julia Bowen before you know Claire and modern family.

[00:07:46] Perfect just kind of just dry reactions is like, oh, it's like you need the straight person to react to all the crazy people in the office.

[00:07:57] Yeah, and even like I feel like who was it in the first season Monica Potter.

[00:08:03] Yeah, she is the street character right so she did this and kind of vanished I'm like what happened. She just give up acting.

[00:08:14] Oh, what's that show was she in parenthood or am I thinking of somebody else. Let me see. It might be Rebecca more nay, I think was on there.

[00:08:24] Yep, no you're right. Okay, okay.

[00:08:28] And I you know what's funny is I'm only, I've never really seen the show but I just remember being like oh where did she go and then she went on that show but I feel like even.

[00:08:39] Okay so then she's on Goliath the other David E. Kelly legal drama.

[00:08:45] So once you're part of his family.

[00:08:47] That's the Billy Bob Thorin Amazon show.

[00:08:51] Yeah, yeah, okay. Where he's just getting rid of his vices has got all other kinds of actors on it like Tonya Raymond, William heard and Lou Diamond Phillips.

[00:09:02] Oh, wow so he yeah he really collects the.

[00:09:07] I mean he's got a lot of stuff from everybody from the Indie darlings like, I mean he did it on big little lives as well where you're like, Oh that guy Oh that person who's in that son that's favorite oh my god.

[00:09:16] Never seen you crush my soul so well.

[00:09:21] I, and I, and I feel like to that era of TV was like the show runner era, where it was like the show runner, the right whoever it was was as famous as the people on the show.

[00:09:33] And like, almost like that the follow through from like the sign and failed Larry David like, you know their their entity in and of themselves like that David E Kelly Aaron Sorkin that that like personality type.

[00:09:49] And I feel like we don't have like show runners like that anymore. And I feel like that's half the battle is really having somebody that's like in charge and making all the pieces move together, and has like one cohesive vision.

[00:10:04] Yeah, it's definitely a precise.

[00:10:09] And I wish more right. I mean I'm hoping post writer's guild you know finally solving their issues that every writer's room is like detoxified because it seems like for a while you would hear so many horror stories about people not getting along quitting, or just refusing

[00:10:25] to get around a vision. And it seemed like, like you say like this came out the same year as the office and it seemed like everyone had a pretty good experience but then, you know, post sopranos madmen you would hear every once in a while horror stories about you

[00:10:40] walking off sets or producers refusing to, you know, have certain narratives and certain scripts they directed and so it's like it to have this precise vision where people are agreeing on the same language the same style is like see that.

[00:11:01] That's how you do it that everyone agreed. I mean, Shatner even has a didn't he has a Star Trek ringtone at one point when he's being arrested.

[00:11:12] mistakenly smuggling drugs and I just thought that was perfect is like see that that if this doesn't run. If the viewer doesn't get this by this point then you know no one can help you.

[00:11:27] That's what made it layered and smart and to the music. That's the other thing that I forgot to again really watching I was like, Oh my God the intro music first of all is iconic and the carry through of like song choice and like layering like they'll use a song at the beginning, and then

[00:11:46] it's like, I don't know.

[00:11:51] And it's, it's like, like a dance and you know I'm a writer so I like to me and I love music and so to me.

[00:12:01] Writing is to his music to me like it has to flow it has to have a rhythm it either has to be staccato you know if you're doing a monologue or it has to, you know, more melodic if you're you know working with a few characters.

[00:12:14] And it's like you can feel the energy like almost like through the writing connected to the music.

[00:12:21] I'm like, Oh, this is why I love this show so much as a kid. And I couldn't quite place it because when I was growing up.

[00:12:30] And then I thought it was going to go to law school, and I thought I was going to be a lawyer because of the show. And it's funny because I realized I didn't want to go to law school, I wanted to be a writer, I wanted to write Alan shores

[00:12:42] blogs. And I was like,

[00:12:46] that as a growing up is because I never saw anyone in the entertainment world are doing that so I never my brain never thought, Oh, somebody had to write the show so we make this show would just appeared on the planet.

[00:13:01] I didn't get there overnight either.

[00:13:04] It's very eye opening though too because you're just like, whoa, okay, you know, and the fact that you know someone had to read that aloud. I did see an interview with Craig Turk, who has done everything he wrote for the good wife he was a John McCain speech

[00:13:21] writer. He was the co creator of the FBI shows and he talked about when he was being schooled by David Kelly on there he would just make a little small changes here and there not take credit for it but he would just like here and there and

[00:13:34] he and then he, you know, played back and he's like, yeah, that change does actually make this flow better and so I think it does compliment your point it does seem like everyone legit got on the same page had the general criticism and constructive

[00:13:50] environment without refusing each other. It seems like writers rooms.

[00:13:55] Those late 90s early 2000s ones were pretty good at just pretty much just saying, hey, if you're going to do this, you better be on that pedestal and you better be ready to pitch. And if we don't buy your pitch then you better worded a different way.

[00:14:09] Instead of, you know, just throwing a temper tantrum saying why don't you like my idea. You know,

[00:14:17] yeah, there was more of a cutthroat.

[00:14:20] Even when you listen to use of like actors and writers there was more of like a cutthroat energy like everyone I think was a little bit more or a little more kind of like brutally ambitious which I connect with because I'm a little bit more like harsh in that way.

[00:14:33] Whereas now I feel like it's a little.

[00:14:37] I don't know kumbaya.

[00:14:41] Yeah, and everyone's a little like sweet and cute and like we all have to you know get along and I'm like no ruthlessness.

[00:14:51] It makes things happen it gives an energy I think like everyone has to vibe and be on the same page, but I think like a little bickering a little unsavoriness.

[00:15:00] a show good. You know, there's like this joke that any type of food, like any type of cuisine

[00:15:08] where it comes from a place of conflict has really good food. American traditional food is

[00:15:14] bland as can be because we don't really have like that that energy that spice. And so I don't know,

[00:15:21] I'm like a little bit of an instigator debater. So I'm like, yeah, you need a little bit of that

[00:15:25] that oomph, that energy that like anything goes in comedy.

[00:15:31] Bingo. And I love how all the interns have their own, you know, unusual quirks,

[00:15:37] whether it's unusual flirtations versus just one of them is a cross-dresser. One of them is also

[00:15:44] just like pretty much just takes everything out of context. But I love how I mean,

[00:15:52] if anything, the staging of this is perfect. And staging is something I wish I had learned

[00:15:56] in film school, but no one had the decency to teach me that until I took a masterclass taught by,

[00:16:02] you know, Ron Howard on that masterclass site and it's like, see, but that's everything.

[00:16:07] Where are you in proportion to the camera? What are you doing in the scene?

[00:16:11] Does this physical gag work versus how you deliver that again, that monologue?

[00:16:17] Like I wish that had been more of a thing instead of just rehearsing and just

[00:16:22] locking out with whatever landed in the can. Yeah, I'd be curious to see.

[00:16:32] Loopers. Yeah, this scene where Alan Shaw is meeting with all of the Chinese

[00:16:41] executives and he brings them all in and he bows to each one. And then ever all of the

[00:16:47] partners are sitting behind him, he's giving this amazing monologue. And he turns to the,

[00:16:52] you know, Shirley Schmidt and everyone in a line and goes, okay, gang smile.

[00:16:58] And to have that whole, so curious to see if it was like a Hail Mary, like if he just had

[00:17:04] to know all of it and did it in a take, or how much prep and like you said with the camera work

[00:17:10] and set and making everything work so well if it was like an all day shoot. Because I would,

[00:17:16] I wonder if that's like in the behind the scenes because watching that I'm like to make that work

[00:17:22] and to have everything be visually apparent is like such a feat. And I don't know if,

[00:17:30] because everything's about money now making TV. I wonder if that would even be an option anymore

[00:17:37] to write. Obviously, they still make scenes like that, but to take your time to create that feeling,

[00:17:43] to have all the characters together, you know what I mean, to film everything simultaneously.

[00:17:48] I don't know if that would happen the way that it would happen.

[00:17:52] Yeah, it would have to be on a already established franchise, probably like a horror anthology

[00:17:57] or sci fi epic show that's probably on like sugarcoated a bit, I guess disguise it.

[00:18:03] Because I mean, Star Trek Strange New World had one that was on war criminals,

[00:18:07] but that's always been a thing with the franchise. Hillary Swank did a show based

[00:18:11] on actual cold cases called Alaska Daily. And unfortunately, ABC canceled it. So yeah, I think

[00:18:19] I think very much like the Los Santos, the Jimmy Smiths and Alan Alda live debate on

[00:18:25] the West Wing. I think you're right. I think no one could do that now. It's just people don't have

[00:18:30] the patience, people don't have the same format anymore. Everyone is a little mechanical again,

[00:18:36] even on streaming, people want it like a year in advance and to sit on it before they upload it.

[00:18:42] It's just like, I guess it just goes back to insecurity, I guess.

[00:18:49] Yeah, it's a bummer. Well, it's all going back. I know it goes back to money. I know

[00:18:52] Jessica Lang recently came out with an interview saying she plans on retiring soon because TV is

[00:18:59] no longer in movies, but it used to be. It's just a money making business. It's just franchises,

[00:19:06] superhero movies. And there's nothing, there's no money going into things that are worthwhile or

[00:19:13] unique. It's just obviously this is a business, but it's not becoming, it's not a melding of

[00:19:19] business and creativity. It's just business now. And that was a bummer. Hearing that, I'm like, oh my

[00:19:25] God, Jessica Lang, she revolutionized older women on TV with American Horror Story. She opened so

[00:19:32] many new doors for new characters. Is this kind of the end unless you're remaking CSI or Magnum

[00:19:39] PI for the millionth time? Oh, this was so bad. I know. Yeah, I'm not a modern TV

[00:19:48] watcher. I'm someone that rewatches older shows or I've never, this is embarrassing. I've never

[00:19:53] seen The Sopranos and my brother is mortified in a shape. But like, because I love like mafia

[00:20:01] culture. And so I'm like rewatching that stuff because I feel like I missed out. I don't know

[00:20:05] how I never just watched these things. Well, to be fair, I mean, every show kind of finds its

[00:20:13] trance. I mean, I'm seeing people who have discovered stuff from 20 years ago also,

[00:20:18] I did revisit some of Sopranos and was like, yeah, I can see why that final season just is

[00:20:23] pretty hated. But I mean, I think the other thing is everything is like a variation of

[00:20:32] one half the same coin. Like Lovecraft Country was a big show, but I think a lot of people

[00:20:39] missed it and it's a shame because I think it was kind of a fun callback to early HBO,

[00:20:44] like stuff like Oz or, let's see, everyone tells from the Crip where you're having all

[00:20:50] this social commentary on it, but a bit of an anthology as well, a new person every day,

[00:20:57] put on trial kind of and looking at the world for their toxic eyes and understanding how they

[00:21:03] got to this awful place. But when you put it in 1950s, Jonestown, it's even more terrifying.

[00:21:10] But yeah, I think everyone also going back to actors brought up Jessica Lane's that

[00:21:19] is a perfect example of people kind of want to imitate each other. And it's so easy to

[00:21:24] run into people who are kind of snobbing like, oh, so and so is a good actor. How can you not see?

[00:21:29] I'm like, well, have you seen anything else they've done? No, I've seen them in that one role. I'm

[00:21:36] like, okay, they might be bad in these other roles, but they finally found their bread and butter.

[00:21:43] I don't know. And it's just a flash in the pan. It's like a moment in time. Like to me,

[00:21:48] Austin Lekal was like, just right time, right place, right people, right casting, whoever. I didn't

[00:21:55] look up who the casting director was for this, but like just every even like the judges, like what's

[00:22:03] her name? Roma Mafia, who was on Nip Talk, which is another show I love. He was such a good,

[00:22:10] like a judge rule is such like now that's like a throwaway rule where it's just like, oh,

[00:22:16] who cares? They're the judge doesn't matter. But every judge in the series in the show was just like

[00:22:23] had a personality, had an energy, Alan and what's her name? Gloria, their affair. And she was like

[00:22:29] a multi-dation. Oh yeah, Gala Grady, yeah, team favorite. And then Armand Schimmerman was there,

[00:22:35] voice actor. There's a track guy. The judges also are the, the, the, the, oh,

[00:22:46] guy you know who I mean? What was his name? Never Mooney. And then there was,

[00:22:56] there was a few other who they brought who had previously played those same roles on the

[00:23:00] practice in Allie McBill. Oh, the rubber. Yeah, Betty White was, oh my God, that was perfect

[00:23:08] casting there. The Reverend guy was Woody from Psych, her fuller. The perp in the office and

[00:23:17] like see that was perfect casting there. But I just loved even just the opposing attorneys

[00:23:24] because half the time they were actors who you typically see being bad guy roles and

[00:23:28] they were playing against types saying I'm just trying to, you know, be a civil rights guy.

[00:23:33] And you're doing Kabuki theater here. What's going on?

[00:23:39] Reminds me of the early, early seasons of Law and Order SVU where they had every good actor

[00:23:46] before they became big. And like you can rewatch those episodes and be like, oh my

[00:23:50] God, Sarah Paulson. Look who that is like every random actor where you're like how,

[00:23:58] how is this possible? It's like whoever was paying attention and casting was really

[00:24:04] invested in their job. And that just shows, I think we take for granted like you said,

[00:24:09] like set design, set movement, casting is like such an important thing. And you have to have,

[00:24:17] I think too, I like how the characters are older characters like Candice Bergen is

[00:24:22] was older on that show. I couldn't imagine this without candy.

[00:24:27] She was just and her and William Shatner in miscongeniality like it felt

[00:24:33] somehow an alternate world where like if everything

[00:24:38] felt peer mentally, it was like that's my sick brain twisting a new story into that fan fiction.

[00:24:47] Absolutely. Sterling K Brown as a guy on Death Row and one of the interns who was on the show for

[00:24:55] like the first two seasons ended up being his wife and real life. That's awesome.

[00:25:01] My favorite. What's his? Go ahead. Oh, do you remember the one with Aisha Tyler?

[00:25:10] Yes, but what was Rema? I remember her being on there.

[00:25:13] Well, just the way that whole episode was filmed was just jaw dropping because like

[00:25:20] she is seeing through Alan's tricks. But the camera, this is back when they got a little even

[00:25:25] more experimental with the court's room scenes and have there being a lot of tracking shots.

[00:25:29] And then someone else comes into the nonstop tracking and just and she's just like,

[00:25:36] I think we can mature a little if we really want to get to the bottom of this. And of

[00:25:41] course, she doesn't win. But her point's been made was like, it just illustrates that Alan's the

[00:25:46] bigger dick this particular week. And it's just it was just kind of riveting because it did actually

[00:25:52] make you focus on the topic that time instead of what mischief are they going to get into

[00:25:56] in this particular courtroom? But there is one that I think if every teacher should probably

[00:26:03] show people now, if they want to even talk about the current state of teaching,

[00:26:08] Michelle Forbes, who you might know from Homicide, Star Trek, True Blood and 24,

[00:26:16] she was on one where she was talking about, you know, playing parenthood and

[00:26:22] basically religious families who don't want certain stuff taught in school.

[00:26:27] And she's just pretty much just like, hey, you can't tell the teacher what not to teach,

[00:26:33] you know, it's we're supposed to be neutral just like the news.

[00:26:40] Yeah, and they did all of those issues were done so well and they handled things like Christianity,

[00:26:48] like homeschooling the EPA, the FDA, they had their like more like overture of morality and

[00:26:57] sort of like trying to be the teacher while also still playing the other side and like also

[00:27:02] kind of making the other side stupid but not being cruel about it. It was this really delicate way of

[00:27:09] doing it. And it reminds me the Sherry O'Terry episode where she's done, she's like a

[00:27:16] devoted for him because of Sarah Palin and yes, oh my God, and it was like watching

[00:27:25] something from last week. It was like watching a discussion about politics now.

[00:27:32] And it's like, to me, I was like, oh, if anyone like watches something, rewatches from the show.

[00:27:40] It's that episode because it like predicted the future and is such a good way of calling somebody

[00:27:48] dumb without being cruel. Like it's just like she's dumb. She's on the spot without

[00:27:56] destroying your entire family. I'm giving you a chance to insert some credibility, but

[00:28:02] I know that I know we're beyond that because you have no credibility.

[00:28:07] Yeah. Only Sherry O'Terry could play that rule so well because she is in on it but then also

[00:28:14] plays dumb. But I don't know. It's again casting just anyone else it would have come across as

[00:28:20] like you're making fun of somebody simple. But she's played it so well and she's like

[00:28:25] so hypocritical and likable. You're like, oh yeah, of course. Yeah, you don't like her and you don't

[00:28:31] want to be the uninformed voter like her. Absolutely. And in a way she's kind of saying

[00:28:38] the other stuff that Denny already says on a regular basis where he's like, oh,

[00:28:42] I just like his posture. I'm going to vote for him. It's like, but he doesn't even agree

[00:28:46] with you on this and that. I don't know. I like his tie. And the fact that

[00:28:55] Denny and Alan get married at the end, I thought was brilliant. I was like, see,

[00:29:00] they're the only two fuckers who can stand each other.

[00:29:05] There's something so beautifully magical about. It shows that it's almost like

[00:29:12] the same gender heterosexual people are like the relationship. They're the love affair.

[00:29:19] Of course they would get married at the end because marriage, if anything is like a partnership

[00:29:24] between two people that like each other, human beings that are friends.

[00:29:30] Of course anyone else, like Alan could have gotten married to so many different women.

[00:29:39] But of course the two of them would end up together. Even in this hypothetical

[00:29:44] non real relationship. And then they have Justice Scalia being the guy married.

[00:29:50] I don't think any of us can get behind Scalia. I'm sure he met well, but just his hot takes

[00:29:57] and just being very hard on certain races and crime. And then have him be just again the most

[00:30:04] hardened guy. Obviously it's an actor playing him, but I thought that was just the icing on the

[00:30:11] cake. He was like, let's take the most harsh person who's probably not the most progressive

[00:30:16] and get these two knuckleheads married. And it's not even about, obviously they're not

[00:30:23] going to have sex with each other, but they legit love each other. They can't stand and

[00:30:28] not be around without each other and smoke a few cigars and talk life stories.

[00:30:34] Yeah, because it's almost like they make up one complete person. Like you said, Alan's

[00:30:42] self loathing and Denny's oblivious. You have a fully enlightened human being, but of course separate.

[00:30:50] They're like two little souls that are struggling. So it's almost like this,

[00:30:54] I don't know, I'm an existentialist. I'm like, oh, it's this beautiful existential coming together

[00:30:59] of like someone finding themselves, but really it's two people becoming like a fully fledged

[00:31:05] human being. And I don't know, anytime. They're very free, like you say. Yeah, I think I should have

[00:31:13] done something so well done, but also like subtle like that. I'm like, I get jealous of good writing

[00:31:19] and like good storytelling. When I'm like jealous, I'm like, that's not fair. I want to come up

[00:31:25] with that idea. Now why do you get to be profound and really get to have a finished script?

[00:31:31] And why don't I get to tell that story in this lifetime and say it's such a profound, lovely way?

[00:31:37] It's not fair. It's like, yeah, me being a whiny little baby, but it like,

[00:31:43] be a better writer. I'm like, oh, now I need to take this idea, flip it on its head, do it in

[00:31:47] another way and reinvent the wheel, but obviously make it cooler. And am I saying I would ever

[00:31:52] be at the level of like a David E. Kelly? No, what I like to aspire to, of course,

[00:31:57] but that's what we all want to be like the masters. A master.

[00:32:02] Well, and I definitely think these characters could even probably exist in the same universe

[00:32:07] as the West Wing in a way because like they are talking about just... Oh, it's like...

[00:32:13] Yeah, it's West Wing with humor. It's like a satirical

[00:32:18] like an added layer of like a meta commentary. Because they did it with... Paul Redford

[00:32:24] at West Wing did work on some other shows like Doesn't Need a Survivor and

[00:32:28] a meta secretary, but they kind of like you say, they still had to play it safe. Like,

[00:32:35] meta secretary kind of was on a Sunday where people are kind of wanting lazy laid back

[00:32:41] to my safe to air entertainment and Doesn't Needed was kind of during their

[00:32:46] thru-a-thon, you know? And so they have a giant, you know, into the disaster thing and then

[00:32:51] have all these wonderful actors, you know, having a meltdown while they're crying over,

[00:32:54] you know, abortions and Latino rides and exploitation of children in real life. And

[00:32:58] you're like, well, shit. So again, you got to put up all these barriers just to get to the

[00:33:03] goodies and was like, see, but not everyone unfortunately has all that patience to

[00:33:08] get to the icing on the cake. I think it's gonna give...

[00:33:14] One dimensional. Sorry, because it's like, yeah, Doesn't Need a Survivor was so...

[00:33:20] Because I remember when that came out, I was intrigued and it was so like,

[00:33:24] like thrill, like thriller energy. And I'm like, it needs some juxtaposition, it needs some nuance.

[00:33:32] And there was the like, what's it called? Will and Grace, like leaned into like

[00:33:41] the hypercomedy, the camp. Oh yeah.

[00:33:45] So I don't know why that came to my brain, but they're running around the same era.

[00:33:48] Well, no, it's the same kind of deal. I mean, that show, I can't imagine the world of sitcoms

[00:33:55] without that one because like that was one of the few which it wasn't even about... Every other

[00:34:00] sitcom was kind of see what they got away with that the kid went over the kids' heads. They were

[00:34:05] kind of more, here's how we live, here's how we bitch and moan and argue. And here's how

[00:34:11] we're the only knuckleheads who can get along with each other. And

[00:34:14] James Burroughs, he is the king of staging. He actually released a book recently on how he

[00:34:19] helmed all these different sitcoms and directed every episode of that show. And

[00:34:23] I'm kind of worried with the other sitcoms they're bringing back because I'm like,

[00:34:26] see, but they were made in a different time. And that guy who played that character is kind

[00:34:32] of an ass. So go ahead. What are they? What else are they bringing back? Oh, they're

[00:34:36] bringing Fraser back this year. And I'm... Oh, I forgot about the year.

[00:34:42] And even though it's some of the same people, I'm like, if you don't have Daphne or Niles,

[00:34:45] what's the point? And you know, it's just going to be checking the boxes. Like,

[00:34:52] I'm all for representation, but like you can't make it feel like a quota. It has to feel

[00:35:00] real and natural and like human beings that would come together.

[00:35:07] Like I think Boston Legal does it so well where they had Jerry Espenson who had ticks and autism

[00:35:14] and it felt real mixed with someone like Katie, British, two people that should not be

[00:35:20] remotely together. Oh, she was a total scene still. And just bringing her British culture in

[00:35:26] to talk about this. And you're like, whoa, that's awesome.

[00:35:31] Yeah. And she had those like... Oh, what was it? Her monologue she does on

[00:35:40] about the environment and the water bottle calling out the hypocrisy of the...

[00:35:44] Not the EPA, but running whoever was running that environmental organization.

[00:35:48] It was like Nestle or somebody. But yeah, there were some other lobbyists who had got

[00:35:52] in on the board which should be making sure we're drinking good water.

[00:35:59] Yeah. And the one of her mine was where she was like... She asked what color he drove and he's

[00:36:04] like a hybrid, all smug. And she goes, ooh. And I was like that little side,

[00:36:10] like that little... It was just perfect. And you could tell that was her and not the script.

[00:36:16] Because like when in a script, you really wouldn't have that reaction written in usually.

[00:36:22] So I was like... There was probably some beat or maybe it was written as so and so

[00:36:28] rolls their eyes or reacts and they changed it up. How about they just... She bemoans the fact that

[00:36:33] no one is listening to her on this important topic and she's back to square one.

[00:36:39] Yeah. And yeah, and she goes on this diatribe about cobalt or nickel batteries and cars and

[00:36:44] how it's mined and all really... It's the only thing that is polluting our environment. And

[00:36:50] if anything, I mean, I'm sure they wanted something timeless that wasn't going to just be

[00:36:56] a show that's rerun 24-7 on A&E. They wanted something that was kind of make you comfortable

[00:37:04] talking about. We'll return after these messages.

[00:37:37] Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win a fight between Goku and Superman?

[00:38:06] Hi, I'm James Cavsian on the Who Would Win show. Me and my co-host, Ray, ignore anything important

[00:38:11] happening in the outside world and debate fictional battles between characters from

[00:38:15] comics, movies and video games. We got a new show every week and almost always am I the winner.

[00:38:21] In the past we've discussed such matches as Captain America vs Darth Vader, Solid Snake vs the

[00:38:27] Iron Giant, classic matchups like Robocop vs Terminator and even the Muppets vs Sesame Street.

[00:38:34] That one was crazy. So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate,

[00:38:39] check out the Who Would Win show wherever you get your podcasts or check us out at WhoWouldWinShow.com.

[00:38:48] Uncomfortable subjects that still impact us.

[00:38:53] Yeah, and I think it's because the courtroom concept is the perfect way of showing every side.

[00:38:59] So it's almost like built into the format where it's like, yeah, you get every side and then you

[00:39:05] get the judge who's the mediator and then you get the person that's being cross-examined and you have

[00:39:11] sometimes the jury or the Supreme Court representing the government. So you have this built in like

[00:39:17] human experience that's already in the system and you have the other layer of like the

[00:39:24] interpersonal drama in the office. So it's like you get the full range of experience just built

[00:39:30] into the format and it's just like you have to play. The time where they go to Texas in the final

[00:39:38] Denny takes out a gun just to make a point about the other guys talking about gun control,

[00:39:43] I thought that was just brilliant because I even wonder if that would happen in real life

[00:39:48] and even if it couldn't, you know, I could see some similarly assert thing happening and I love how

[00:39:54] the judge is like let's just get a continuance this got heated.

[00:40:00] Well there's like I think it was some stat where it's like

[00:40:03] what Denny's been shot like four times or something. Yeah, yeah because he says racist

[00:40:07] shit and people shoot him in retaliation for the whatever. And then in like the first couple

[00:40:13] episodes he's having an affair with one of his client's wives and then he pulls a gun on him

[00:40:18] and like one of the first couple episodes. And I'm like this is already how the show is opening.

[00:40:23] Like I love how they opened hard for this show because obviously they were spinning from another

[00:40:27] show so they had some like you know clouds already so they could really go in on it.

[00:40:35] But the first episode is very dark but yeah it doesn't become a comedy until like that

[00:40:39] final season and you know Allie McGill is another one where it's like it's a like it or hate it but

[00:40:45] it was kind of I think that's what made Kelly realize I do need more just uncanny workplace

[00:40:51] behavior. I want to be like LA law but I want to avoid how formulaic it became years later

[00:40:57] you're either interested in plot A or plot B but not the whole thing and Boston

[00:41:02] Lego you really are invested in the whole thing without feeling like okay they're getting too comfy

[00:41:09] that they're because you really are the case will be just something where it's like

[00:41:14] it doesn't even feel like a case. It's like yeah it was a pretty big topical thing I don't even

[00:41:19] know how I feel about that I'm wondering where this is gonna go instead of drinkies I sold the case

[00:41:25] but that's what makes it good is it's there's no there's I mean obviously the case either you win

[00:41:33] or you lose but then it doesn't end with Alan and Denny smoking cigars and drinking on the balcony

[00:41:43] where they're musing about the case so it still ends open so it's like you're still allowed

[00:41:49] to make up your mind or not make up your mind and that's like I wish a new show would do something

[00:41:57] like that obviously you don't want to copy because yeah you know then it would ruin the specialness

[00:42:01] but there needs to be some like some musing some uncertainty in modern TV like everything feels

[00:42:08] have you seen the show Chicago Med yes I watched all the Tom Fontana saying

[00:42:14] else where dick wolf shows but don't get me wrong there are some weaker ones and there are some

[00:42:19] ones I do recommend I mean you feel good when you watch an FBI episode because it's like

[00:42:23] criminal minds where it's just very gruesome serial killers and white supremacists and sometimes

[00:42:28] they get or come up and sometimes you don't get any comeuppance and yeah the Chicago

[00:42:33] shows are an interesting bag I'm really keen on Chicago fire because I think that does a good

[00:42:37] mix of politics and gritty crime PDs kind of formulaic and meds kind of trying to be kind

[00:42:46] of like Chicago hope but some people I know drive the viewer crazy so what would you take on it

[00:42:54] you know it's just funny it's for whatever reason my youtube algorithm has been suggesting me clips

[00:42:58] from Chicago men I don't know why because I don't yeah I follow down the weirdest algorithms

[00:43:06] so I'll watch these little clips so I feel like I've seen most of this show but like so taken

[00:43:14] from the headlines like lawn or svu to the point of like being comically ripped from the headlines

[00:43:21] that it takes you out of the the zeitgeist feeling of it it doesn't feel like it's

[00:43:27] of the time it feels like it's like you know it would be like if they did an episode not about like

[00:43:33] safety or something but if they did one where like it was an exact replica of the titanic sub

[00:43:38] bursting yeah how they don't always get it right sometimes sometimes it's just like okay this is

[00:43:45] a fun topic but you needed to maybe disguise it a little more so it didn't feel so blatant

[00:43:51] you know and sometimes it's them angrily responding to it I don't know how much of it is filtered

[00:44:01] but they can just yeah I'd be I'd be curious to see like who's in charge of pulling stories or

[00:44:08] like I wonder how that that works versus who writes it yeah or if it's both yeah because I

[00:44:15] because whoever was writing and researching and doing you know that kind of monotonous work for

[00:44:21] Boston legal they made it relevant like it was you know the what was it um don't ask don't tell episode

[00:44:31] which was like relevant to the point yeah really well done um a very like genuine take on homosexuality

[00:44:40] um and it was of the time because it was so relevant but it it it didn't feel contrived it

[00:44:48] felt like oh this was happening it's you know genuine it's it's relevant but it's not like okay this

[00:44:55] happened in the news three weeks ago or you know obviously it didn't feel like that I think it's

[00:45:01] just they added extra breathing room I guess because those other shows are kind of based on what

[00:45:08] you're feeling in the moment which kind of determines your enjoyment because there are plenty

[00:45:11] of ones where it's like that was well acted and well written but I didn't enjoy it personally

[00:45:17] and uh with legal you're kind of just I guess you're just there's enough kind of like West Wing

[00:45:24] you there's enough comedy in between you're able to just kind of get warmed up for it's kind

[00:45:30] of like if you're seeing live improv or poetry you're or even a speaker at your call as you

[00:45:37] have enough that you're able to break through that barrier without like you say just feeling like

[00:45:42] hey didn't I just see that on a CNN report last week you know I uh but I've only encountered ever

[00:45:50] one person who thought that show just didn't oh maybe a few there was like some people didn't

[00:45:55] think it held up as well and there was one person who felt it was preachy and I thought

[00:45:58] interesting because the main female writer kept saying I'm I try to avoid having it go on too long

[00:46:05] to avoid feeling preachy and I never felt like I was being preached to I mean when Alan's complaining

[00:46:11] about the Iraq war he's kind of just trying to make a bigger point instead of phrasing it as and here's

[00:46:16] how I feel versus here's how they feel he's just like he's just reading off stats and you know

[00:46:22] he's building up to a totally different side of his overall argument I think and I guess

[00:46:28] I guess like Shrek this has layers like an onion

[00:46:30] you got a reference yeah

[00:46:37] we know that um he's also trying to win the case so there's like an element of like

[00:46:42] he's trying to also say the right thing to make his didn't play dirty by saying to the judge I'm

[00:46:48] gonna sleep with your wife and you're like what that's not gonna win you anything

[00:46:54] we kind of also says what we're all think like the darker stuff the more morbid stuff he's

[00:46:58] he's like kind of our yeah antagonistic like devil on our shoulder side and it's not like

[00:47:04] Danny Crane's the angel but he's the more pure I guess if you were gonna do that like chart of like

[00:47:13] I would say Danny Crane's like chaotic neutral

[00:47:17] so Alan has that chaotic evil if he needs it it's in his back pocket

[00:47:21] yes with that concept a little bit and I don't know I like I like when characters are

[00:47:32] kind of gross and unsavory and honest liar yeah because we want that's how human beings are

[00:47:39] I'm going to stab you in the back but at least I'll warn you before I do it while Denny is

[00:47:44] kind of like still not learning from his mistakes you get to season five and he's still twiddling

[00:47:50] and the judge is like you don't seem to be involved in the case sir he's like oh I'm

[00:47:54] just reenacting me being bored during history class judge

[00:47:59] damn it why are you a lawyer how did you get this far yeah there's a charm to that that's like how

[00:48:07] we are just ourselves and kind of simple and like a you know kind of like a fifth grader again

[00:48:12] Danny Crane's kind of like a sixth grader

[00:48:16] one of my favorite podcasts I listened to is who would win and as a fun take on the whole just

[00:48:22] versus matches uh Ray will spend the if it was a former wrestler will spend too much time trying

[00:48:29] to research YouTube clips while James just uses what he calls the intoxicating mind fog where he

[00:48:34] goes and by the way Ray I didn't listen to anything you had to say because it wasn't

[00:48:38] interesting and here's how I feel about this character in that character here's why Spawn

[00:48:42] defeats this character in a fight here's why Jason Bourne is a pretty cool martial artist

[00:48:48] here's why penhead is going down because I'm repping this you know sci-fi fantasy horror character

[00:48:56] I just love that kind of whole sense of just be a python just strike and let them know

[00:49:03] what are when you bite them what are the venoms you know striking to their blood instead of just

[00:49:09] using all the venting all this energy where you can't where it's not needed

[00:49:15] yeah like the ADHD kid

[00:49:18] the honest one I know because I always try to be more cerebral and I sometimes you come across that

[00:49:26] and in your in your life just like you know talking to people and you're like whoa that

[00:49:30] threw me for a loop just someone saying I didn't listen anything you say here now what and you're

[00:49:35] like wait what I'm all my whole because I didn't see it coming I thought I've seen everything

[00:49:44] I'm at least the people that have that kind of you know single-celledness for they're like

[00:49:50] I'm happy now I'm sad now yeah I'm in there's a you're because essentially what that person's

[00:49:55] saying is I'm present in the moment because I'm always in my own brain thinking and I'm like

[00:50:00] rolling my my brain scrolling it's somewhere else I'm thinking about my grocery list you know

[00:50:04] my brain's divided I can only spend this X amount until this day when I get paid yeah yeah

[00:50:12] I'm never fully present and I'm so envious of people that are like that and so I think it's

[00:50:17] to me Danny Crane's the present one he's in he's a heat and

[00:50:21] and Alan is the the mental scroller he's like how can I be the philosopher somewhere else mentally

[00:50:30] you know away and and he's also his own worst enemy he's a self-sabotager he destroys relationships

[00:50:36] he does absolutely yeah what is it the second episode he is the guardian for his ex-girlfriend

[00:50:43] who tried to kill him oh my god with Elizabeth Mitchell yeah yeah and um she was amazing in that too

[00:50:52] and I was like you've seen her later on the purge and the expanse that she's kind of a sci-fi

[00:50:58] horror queen now but yeah and I know I need to get into that universe because I feel like so many

[00:51:03] good actors go into that space and I just space that's all yes space literal and bigger

[00:51:13] Jason went there so can we

[00:51:17] I just know it's such a dedication going into like that like the unit like learning about that those

[00:51:23] again literally and figuratively the universes you know and that whole world

[00:51:32] and I just I don't know when I go into a show I go deep like I like knowing about all the extra

[00:51:36] stuff around it in the history and the I want to binge it instead of okay I guess this is

[00:51:42] going somewhere on sure I know uh there's so much good it makes me like sad that we only have so many

[00:51:51] years on this earth because I'm like there's so many good books to read movies to watch tv shows to

[00:51:55] watch I'm like how all of my short short life it's not fair um but that's like my usual

[00:52:01] existential dread I'm like you know we're all we're all trying to avoid all these stands and

[00:52:11] Karen's and then at the same time is like uh oh I said something there that could be interpreted

[00:52:15] as such maybe I'm risking becoming one of them so I better better wake up better smell the roses

[00:52:23] yeah yeah and it's crazy too how in modern tv is such like a fandom like um like you were

[00:52:33] saying with like uh Rick and Morty everyone being so intense and extreme about shows and all of that

[00:52:38] like I miss whenever it was just a show and people enjoyed it and we're tuned in but like then you

[00:52:45] moved on you weren't like bickering with people it's like why it's it's good because it's teaching

[00:52:52] us things and it's yeah storytelling it's like why do we need to fight it's supposed to be fun

[00:52:57] we fight enough in our real lives yep and so many I miss even when it didn't matter if a show

[00:53:05] was a union or not there were so many other shows from the 80s and 90s that did a good job

[00:53:11] having all this topical information and they were on a sister channel so they had enough ratings

[00:53:18] that they had enough freedom to do what they want anything from tell us from the dark side to

[00:53:22] about one five to all these other ones homicide uh life on the street uh launched a bunch of careers

[00:53:29] and that David Simon guy was a former cop and he's done all these other social commentaries for

[00:53:33] HBO and it's like uh sometimes people can beat the whole ratings game and just find the right people

[00:53:40] at the right time but I don't even know how anyone even just gives a chat on how to be

[00:53:47] influential well I don't even it's funny because I was I wasn't sure how

[00:53:55] this show was rated and so I was it was reading little blurbs about like the ratings and

[00:54:00] viewership and whatnot and I didn't realize that it was like I had not good ratings

[00:54:06] like it was a it was a it was a it was a Emmy's darling but it was not yeah it was

[00:54:14] and I was surprised because I for some reason in my mind I thought oh it was more

[00:54:19] you know industry acclaimed than you know um sort of like cult classic acclaimed and it was

[00:54:26] the opposite and I was surprised because it seems like it would have been a show that would have

[00:54:30] been so loved in like the was at the neilson ratings world that traditional school you know

[00:54:37] it's tv rating game and I don't know that just it surprised me and I it made me realize like oh

[00:54:42] this show was there was no guarantee it was going to go on as long as it did you know especially

[00:54:50] I saw an interview with lake bell where she said that she was basically fired from the show

[00:54:55] when uh Shirley fired her character sally like it was basically like that scene

[00:55:01] was like her also kind of being fired in real life because she ran into kansas bergen

[00:55:06] in real life and she was like hey remember when he fired me in the show

[00:55:10] and it like took her for a loop she's like whoa what because it was like kind of a store subject

[00:55:14] so I was like wow there was some animosity they weren't quite sure of how this was going to

[00:55:19] work they brought in so many new characters new interns and now she's in the film making

[00:55:25] darling you know how yeah and it ended up being good for her and she had like that

[00:55:35] and I could see too because I don't know where else her character would have gone because it was

[00:55:39] like how much can her and alan play back and forth they brought her back and she had changed

[00:55:45] up but they did a good job of saying and by the way she's moved on from all you guys you guys are

[00:55:54] yeah but I mean it kind of fits too because that I have a friend that's a lawyer and he had to quit his

[00:56:00] one job at a legal firm recently because there was um a ton of sexual harassment chaos going on

[00:56:07] and so he was telling me these stories I'm like oh my god this really does happen

[00:56:12] like this is like the show is real like it's that level of partying and socializing and affairs and

[00:56:19] bad flirting and I was surprised because I thought this was a little like over the top but I'm like

[00:56:26] he was telling me stories I'm like oh my god these could have been plot points in the show

[00:56:30] yeah this could have been really no different than what Epstein or any of those other

[00:56:34] jerks were doing at the time I think it's just kind of like police corruption and white supremacy

[00:56:40] and all other sorts of just very very you know just you know with people taking out their anger

[00:56:47] from playing a video game I think we just disguised so many issues or acted like it was only a certain

[00:56:52] demographic and you know however I guess we were stating it it just wasn't getting through

[00:56:57] and we were just hiding behind our pride you know but it only happens to that person or oh

[00:57:03] let's let's shame this person or act like they're they're asking for it and like well no victim

[00:57:08] asked for it so if it happened yeah that's the reason it happened it didn't just happen overnight either

[00:57:17] and I think the show does a good job showing that the legal system caters to wealthy people

[00:57:22] caters to people that know how to wiggle through the legal system and that's why law was so

[00:57:29] unappealing to me as I went through my political science degree because I was like

[00:57:34] it's just rich people manipulation it's just gross it's pretty much who has the bigger stones

[00:57:41] so to speak versus who has actual material to detail you can even do a good job and still get

[00:57:48] denied if the judge is a I mean there was this one recent judge who took out his cell phone I think

[00:57:55] it was during not not Zimmerman uh uh Redden house uh just his hack lawyer decided hey I'm gonna

[00:58:06] just go to this racist judge and the judge actually had his cell phone go off during

[00:58:12] the whole deal and it was just like but this was all deliberate he knew he was gonna pretty much

[00:58:19] get a mistrial or just get an easy win just because whoever you know and I think with the

[00:58:25] Clarence Thomas scandal and other stuff of recent I think we are having to just

[00:58:30] remind other people is like you can be in a big place of power but you know even with Cuomo and

[00:58:37] you know various district attorney scandals is like you always hold everyone in question

[00:58:43] under a microscope it does not matter how they got there and you know you can get their through

[00:58:50] you know unofficial means that weren't you know valid and you just gotta kind of just

[00:58:56] take a step back and just put it in focus. Yeah we're also working within the parameters

[00:59:03] the biggest thing for me again another thing that made me

[00:59:07] uninterested in the legal profession was you're working with a to me a flawed document

[00:59:12] the constitution is systematic and it hasn't been updated it hasn't been upgraded it hasn't

[00:59:20] been layered or nuanced it's like trying to try to update it it pretty much is there to serve a

[00:59:26] political side it's like no uh uh uh if we're gonna update it it has to be to improve it

[00:59:33] exactly and it has to be um you know it's sort of like working with the bible

[00:59:41] to be to be dictating your whole life is it's we're we've come up with some cooler books since

[00:59:46] then you know maybe like the hobbits the next for to me the the higher version of the bible it's like

[00:59:52] then maybe you know you're working with an upgrade or I recently was thinking i'm like

[00:59:57] when it comes to the constitution you know we had in there for a while that basically

[01:00:03] black people were three fifths white people I mean that was in that document so it's like

[01:00:08] like America's never really gone to therapy in a way we've never worked or dealt with our stuff before

[01:00:14] and so if you're working in that kind of like kind of muck and if you're using that document to

[01:00:22] dictate things it's the system is never going to be fair for people and it's kind of like a

[01:00:29] futile endeavor and that's sort of how I saw it very futile yeah and yeah so that was another

[01:00:38] thing where I'm like I get why people want to be lawyers I get that people can do good in the

[01:00:42] system but I don't think my values man yeah yeah I don't think my value in society will come from

[01:00:50] and it isn't and it won't from working in legal profession now can I love a good closing statement

[01:00:57] of course like that's why I love the show where I'm like these I mean again like it gives me

[01:01:02] chills I'm like I get jealous about this writing but I think it's more the content of what's being

[01:01:08] said in the legal profession is what draws me to the show now and draws me to that world and

[01:01:14] fascinates me because I think now especially like you know our world podcasting you know

[01:01:20] it's turning the curtain back instead of just playing with you know hey we're showing you

[01:01:26] this side of the formula which you've already seen and we're running out of steam slowly and

[01:01:30] I see people bitch about later seasons but honestly I think they I think a five-year run was the best

[01:01:37] way to do it instead of all these other ones which just go on and on and on until there's virtually

[01:01:42] nothing to tell anymore yeah it's either shows go for now one season and then they're done

[01:01:51] or yeah like you said forever and ever and ever and ever and it's like once something is the

[01:01:57] the once the ball is rolling and it never stops it the thing it started as it ceases to be you know

[01:02:05] it's like an avalanche you know wanted to be all snowball but now it's become this kind of monstrous

[01:02:10] thing that has no tangible thing to it taking you over it's a parasite yeah exactly and it's like

[01:02:18] yeah like that's how I feel about the modern because law and order svu was like one of my

[01:02:23] favorite shows and what it's become now is like it's just there it has no point of view it has

[01:02:29] really whatever it's just fine I mean it's I'll watch it if it's on tv and I love you one of the

[01:02:36] did you see one of the more recent ones I didn't know because it belongs to you open a bunch

[01:02:42] they reopened a bunch of newer cases that basically all of them are mistrials now

[01:02:48] so they've been doing more serialized shit but yeah they did have some filler ship for a while that

[01:02:55] went bananas I just appreciate all the crossovers with bringing the main show back which I was

[01:02:59] always a bigger fan of just because crime solving legal case and then final statement I just

[01:03:06] always like the free extractor there but I know they're going to bring criminal intent back and

[01:03:11] having stablers manhunt has been kind of I thought a step in the right direction but

[01:03:16] uh that there's stuff for all shows to grow there's plenty of other ones which you know flew the

[01:03:21] coop years ago I always I think Sean Ryan still kind of one of the single best writers because

[01:03:26] you might know him from stuff like The Shield and a few other just gritty shows he has the

[01:03:31] night agent on Netflix now but he has every season always speak for itself so he was always

[01:03:37] able to combat cancellation and I think everyone just keeps running into it I see so many of

[01:03:43] them who just shrug saying who cares I'm like oh dude we wanted you to revisit those characters that

[01:03:48] you freshly brought to life uh you see other ones too who are just kind of out of it and I'm like

[01:03:54] ah dude you blew my mind back in the day you should pat yourself on the back because no one else can

[01:04:02] do that yeah it's almost like you have to have a really good sense whenever a show is like this

[01:04:07] you have to have like a yeah like okay sometimes you have to leave some things to some characters to

[01:04:17] kind of like be mysterious still never quite finish their story to kind of give that lingering feeling

[01:04:23] but then close some stories and it's almost like you like uh like being alive like being a human

[01:04:29] some things end nice and neatly some things linger some doors stay open and I think you

[01:04:34] have to find that delicate balance and if you don't and everything closes nice and neatly

[01:04:39] everything stays open it just feels unsettled it doesn't feel good and so again I think it's just

[01:04:46] the the luck it has to be you know timing plus character choice plus writing to really create

[01:04:52] these magical shows and I'm curious to see within I the writer strike obviously has been

[01:04:58] agreed upon but the actor strike is continuing they canceled or they stopped negotiations

[01:05:04] so I'm curious if things are going to change if we're going to migrate to the old school way of

[01:05:11] writing and creating shows or if it's going to keep going toward this kind of consumerism tick

[01:05:16] talk like quibby and then there are gonna be 50 other apps that replace the ones we're using now

[01:05:22] that's gonna be mind blowing what are they gonna do that's different that offers more than the

[01:05:26] other brand you know like whoa yeah I see and I was just listening to an interview with Thea Vaughn

[01:05:34] and um Anthony Jeselnick comedians and um one of them was talking about going to the last blockbuster

[01:05:42] which is in band Oregon and they were saying how nice it is physically have a tangible movie

[01:05:47] and it's not an algorithm choosing for you anymore it's you choosing what you want

[01:05:52] and I was like I miss that feeling so much of tangible analog old school choosing

[01:05:59] flipping on the tv like going through channels I think we're going to go to a renaissance of

[01:06:06] like they're saying streaming is dying I think we're gonna just go back to cable I think we're

[01:06:09] just gonna be like because we learned the internet's trash like maybe i'm optimistic and like

[01:06:19] old-fashioned maybe like a caveman and I can't see the future but we're definitely not saving money

[01:06:24] like they thought they would they're hemorrhaging money they're well it's also over leveraged and

[01:06:30] they it's all stocks and blah blah blah but yeah I'm also very old school like I listen to records

[01:06:35] I collect records I've record play like I like everything old-fashioned yeah so I'm one of those

[01:06:39] people so I could be totally wrong but I'm hoping we'll go back to the old world the old world

[01:06:46] open you want to do a plug for happiest said person real fast before we go I gotta jump on

[01:06:53] another interview I could I just love jabbering I am one of my talents is running my mouth

[01:07:06] this has been a treat if you want to hear me run my mouth elsewhere you can join me at the

[01:07:10] happiest sad person podcast I have new episodes in the can I'm releasing some after a long hiatus

[01:07:18] my book will be coming out soon hopefully in January 2024 death in the time of suburbia will be the book

[01:07:26] yeah find me at the happiest sad person podcast and instagram that's kind of where you can find me

[01:07:31] and this has been wonderful anytime you're dead you rocked it yeah all right thank you

[01:07:39] we'll keep thinking of some other stuff talk about how we can even just talk about books

[01:07:43] I was I'm down whatever yeah we haven't won the time comes can do that too just

[01:07:50] perfect you prospering I'm feeling optimistic so your optimism is rubbing off yeah optimistic

[01:07:57] nihilist roger's babies without a baby who needs a baby sitter when we can't even get along

[01:08:05] with our damn pace exactly right keep kicking ass on the wild side talk soon

[01:08:22] follow us on the web on facebook twitter and instagram the podcast is available on podby spotify

[01:08:29] i heart radio anchor apple and anywhere else podcasts are available feel free to review

[01:08:34] our show and leave comments on any of those sites thanks a million for listening

[01:09:04] oh