Big Boss Week: Klaus Kinski’s Nosferatu Films Review (with JJ & Tom)

[00:00:06] It's a Jacked Up Review Show, It's a Jacked Up Review Show

[00:00:16] It's a Jacked Up Review Show, It's a Jacked Up Review Show

[00:00:28] Jacked Up Review Show

[00:00:52] Oh hi Mark

[00:00:54] Hey I'm Antonio Banderas and I am going to tell you this is a one fucked up podcast

[00:01:04] Not whitewash, just a stupid impression of a celebrity

[00:01:11] Um so all three stooges of us are back in the house today

[00:01:15] I wanted to cover this saga years ago when I first started this podcast and low on a hold

[00:01:21] JJ got me to get my head out of my ass and said we're doing it, we're doing it

[00:01:25] My mom

[00:01:27] We had seen it recently and I'm like that's awesome

[00:01:32] We're talking Werner Herzog and then we're talking Italian ripoff of Nasferato

[00:01:38] But it's Klaus Kinski easily at his best, at his peak

[00:01:42] And as we usually do with these cult and grindhouse and drive-in and art house movies

[00:01:49] It's just so much fun to just try and figure out why it connected with both a mainstream and a cult crowd

[00:01:55] And we have like probably the most gothic vampire movie really to date in quite a while

[00:02:04] Yeah and it was done shot for shot

[00:02:12] Here's the mirror now version except Herzog fleshed it out more because now you had sound

[00:02:18] You had sound, you had a few more graphic visions but it's

[00:02:22] Still a very tame movie ultimately compared to the other ones

[00:02:27] Well you got to think it's 1979 so that's the year there's three Dracula movies out

[00:02:33] There's Love at First Bite which is a great comedy

[00:02:37] There's John Badham's Dracula which is with Franklin Jolie, Kate Nelligan and

[00:02:41] Laurence Olivier and Donald Pleasance

[00:02:44] And then you have Werner Herzog going back to the source

[00:02:51] Which him doing F.W. Murnau's Nasferatu

[00:02:59] And he did it basically because remember he'd just done

[00:03:03] He'd done a Greer the Wrath of God in 72

[00:03:06] He did Trois-Ex, he did Hearts of Glass

[00:03:12] This is a few years before Fitzcarraldo but yeah he had done some of his documentaries

[00:03:16] Yeah this is before Fitzcarraldo, a couple years before Fitzcarraldo

[00:03:21] So what he does is he does like you know he does a Greer the Wrath of God

[00:03:27] That's the big bang for him as a director because no one had ever seen anything like

[00:03:33] that before and then he does you know he does the mystery of Caspar Hauser and he does

[00:03:40] Strois-Ex, no he says Strois-Ex, Hearts of Glass and the Mystery of Caspar Hauser

[00:03:43] And then after that he decides okay I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna do

[00:03:48] Nasferatu because to him Nasferatu is the greatest German movie ever made

[00:03:53] Which I can't help but agree with him

[00:03:57] His heart's in the material too even though like you were saying offline

[00:04:02] He wasn't used to at first to playing to genre rules and expectations

[00:04:05] But at the same time it doesn't feel like a gun for hired or workmen like it feels like dedication

[00:04:14] Yeah yeah

[00:04:16] And vampires have just evolved so many times I'm just getting really sick of how

[00:04:21] You know even before Twilight Crap like how people feel like it should still be just

[00:04:26] ultra gruesome or silly like Anne Rice or just even

[00:04:31] I don't even people gothic is even a word that I think many people use

[00:04:37] But half the time no one really knows what it means

[00:04:41] Well to me this is a studying character too because he does the if you see the movie

[00:04:50] The beginning is first the beginning titles are like haunting because these mummies

[00:04:57] Yeah if these mummies he got he went to Mexico and he got these mummies of people who had died or

[00:05:06] You know they supposedly there was a cholera epidemic and they buried these people

[00:05:12] So he took all the mummies and lined them up

[00:05:16] And he just shoots them all you know and you see you know Nasferatu the vampire and it's like

[00:05:21] We're looking at this we're looking at death basically this is what it is this is death

[00:05:26] This is death this is the only way death can look

[00:05:29] Yeah and so so would this be considered the first faces of death movie?

[00:05:35] Yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:05:38] This is the foreshadow there's a lot of foreshadowing in this movie but yes this is

[00:05:42] This might be on an intro on a bootleg of faces of death somewhere saying

[00:05:47] Prepare your eyes but a feast among thee

[00:05:50] Yeah it would be it would be like in Mondo it would be like a Mondo Kane you know

[00:05:54] They would pull some you know and these are these are mummies of people who were still alive

[00:05:59] Because if you look some of them look like they were still like they were buried

[00:06:02] Alive and they just didn't know and they were trying to get out you know but um

[00:06:07] The movie I mean the movie itself it does follow the trope of what

[00:06:13] Mirna had in the beginning yeah you know

[00:06:15] Or a lot of those wondering yeah yeah so you know um Mirna has you know Jonathan Harker

[00:06:23] You know he he meets Renfield Renfield is you know the real estate agent

[00:06:27] He has to send him to the Carpathian mountains Lucy you know Lucy his wife

[00:06:31] You know Jonathan's wife he meets Dracula Dracula comes back and brings the plague to

[00:06:38] Uh what they would what it was back then was Lubick in the in the thing um they called it

[00:06:44] Vismar in I think the English version so there's this is the kind of movie that makes you want to

[00:06:50] Look up some of the locations along some of the other props and books that are in it yeah yeah

[00:06:56] And some of the locations from the original 22 movie are still around but they were bombed

[00:07:01] Out during the war yeah there are some that are there are some that are still there

[00:07:05] So what's a good companion to Shadow of the Vampire which concerns the making of

[00:07:10] Nosferatu with the yeah that you know the Renfield actor or the Orlok actor might have

[00:07:17] Actually been a vampire terrorizing crew but this is kind of the same kind of pace

[00:07:22] Like they both follow the same kind of ethic of having kind of more showing less telling

[00:07:31] And yeah just keeping in brooding suspense instead of who's gonna die next

[00:07:36] And what they what he did was he he made the characters more human so yes to me it's like

[00:07:45] Jonathan is motivated not by by for a better life for his wife because they live in this really

[00:07:51] Like small house and he says he says oh I could buy a bigger bigger house for Lucy and you

[00:07:57] Know it would be good to get out of this town you know and with all the canals and everything

[00:08:02] Like that and Lucy is played by Isabella Adjani and let me just give you who's playing who in this

[00:08:10] Roland Topor is Renfield Bruno Gans is Bruno Gans who you may know from Downfall

[00:08:19] Yeah numerous excellent international actor yeah Isabella Adjani you'd know from

[00:08:27] Diabalik or she was in a story of Adele the story of Adele H or

[00:08:36] And you know there was Roland Topor who wrote The Tenet for

[00:08:41] Roman Polanski and he wrote Fantastic Planet he's Renfield and then Klaus Kinski is brought in to be

[00:08:50] Dracula now here's what here's here's here's something I love about the movie is that

[00:08:57] every time we saw Dracula on screen he was this handsome looking guy and he was gonna bite

[00:09:03] people and drink their blood right he was like Medusa just the whole cake is alive but you

[00:09:07] can't take your eyes off me so you're already dead absolutely this Dracula the way

[00:09:14] you feel a trap he's a tragic character because he's talking to Harker and he's like

[00:09:20] I don't attach anything to glittering fountains or sunshine anymore I like to be alone with my

[00:09:25] thoughts I like the darkness in the shadows um you know he he doesn't know you know

[00:09:35] time is abyss profound of a thousand nights you know the ability not to grow old you know

[00:09:41] and you feel this tragic this guy wants to this this thing is he doesn't want to be immortal

[00:09:50] yet he's you know and I'm trying to put this all into perspective but

[00:09:56] the way he frames every character is something different and it's like

[00:10:00] one on top of the other on top of the other on top of the other on top of the other

[00:10:05] and it blends when we meet when we meet Dracula he you know he's just this guy standing in the

[00:10:13] hallway with a cap on and he's like you know Jonathan Harker yes you've been expected

[00:10:22] I mean the night is cold and you must be tired and hungry and he's he's like you know

[00:10:30] you walk in it's not like good evening I need you welcome it's like this like yeah

[00:10:34] he's just he's just this like golem-like creature who shows up right now they think

[00:10:40] it's a birth defect or something or just a form of disease but just he's just this weird

[00:10:45] looking person you know and with pointy teeth we don't you know Harker hasn't seen this

[00:10:50] before Harker's just traveled four weeks you know and and the thing the thing we got to

[00:10:57] look at is like the original Ostrachi was basically based on the book by Bram Stoker

[00:11:02] right and use exact scenes while doing some of their own take on it yeah they use they

[00:11:08] sometimes refer to them as the death bird which could be used as an allusion to creepy

[00:11:14] the the the Greek is Nos Forus which is a plague bringer and somebody I think the guy

[00:11:23] who was Henry Galen who's the screenwriter overheard it and heard it a different way he said

[00:11:28] oh Nos Foratu that sounds like a real great name so you know wow because that's what the rats are

[00:11:33] supposed to illuminate too is that the plague is upon them and the thing that it's like

[00:11:42] is I've always said like like you watch it you watch in the beginning it's this nice little

[00:11:46] thing oh he's gonna go see Dracula you know Herzog had this thing where he was

[00:11:51] would use music in the movies yes so he had a guy named Florian Frick who was in a who had

[00:12:00] a band called Papal Voo Papal Voo and they would do like these atmospherics this

[00:12:06] atmospherics I think he was the guy who did the soundtrack for Aguirre and he would

[00:12:11] do the soundtrack for for Fitzcarraldo very atmospheric very kind of but he used a piece

[00:12:20] of music from Richard Wagner's Das Rheingold the Nibelung Das Rheingold

[00:12:28] okay you know when Jonathan's going to the castle and you hear that

[00:12:36] like he's hitting it like that piece of music shows that Harker has hit his his goal

[00:12:43] and then he uses it again when Dracula comes to Lysmar and is unloading all the all the cases

[00:13:22] of earth and the rats and everything like that so basically it's describing it's describing two

[00:13:30] the piece of music the theme of that music is describing two characters who have basically come

[00:13:37] and gotten to their goals so that's that's how it works I'll show you have to watch

[00:13:44] you to understand it you know okay I'll receive that part but yeah I do love the music in

[00:13:50] general like it is it kind of caters to the film's poetic nature um well what do you think

[00:13:57] about the book that they use which is an actual book uh that they take the one of vampires

[00:14:03] terrible ghosts magic and the seven deadly sins yeah that's the defeat orlok with and

[00:14:09] as like see that this movie like all the props and costumes and settings are just as much a

[00:14:18] character yeah yeah that's the great which is not something I can say about an average

[00:14:23] blockbuster where it's often just good or bad people shoot too fast where sometimes it's

[00:14:29] like can we slow down can we stay in this world for a bit longer well he picked the town of delft

[00:14:37] in holland because he said it was like a stage for him for a play oh it's definitely

[00:14:43] it's a very interactive stage play that is for sure and then when he goes to when we see

[00:14:49] jonathan go up to the castle you know that castle was in czechoslovakia and the thing

[00:14:56] you find out is herzog had a crew of about maybe 10 people working with him

[00:15:03] and to shoot that good of movies only 10 people we usually have a crew of about

[00:15:07] 50 60 people he only had 10 people working on that which is great

[00:15:19] so what do you think of the hyena representing a werewolf

[00:15:22] well that's in the 22 that's in the 1922 version that doesn't come up in

[00:15:28] okay this one but i thought there was a scene they shot well they do still a bat flying around

[00:15:35] okay that's roughly a nature video that they did but the he he flips the tropes around

[00:15:44] of some of those characters in in nasferatu the vampire because if you remember if you remember in

[00:15:54] every movie van helsey was in he's the one who's going to destroy the vampire

[00:15:59] yeah in this movie he's a he's a he's a scientist who basically doesn't believe

[00:16:06] half the shit lucy is telling him yeah and you can understand because like there's always just

[00:16:14] moments in silence where everyone's kind of processing this info at the same time we

[00:16:17] the audience are kind of processing it so we don't feel like oh he's a dumb dumb he's just

[00:16:22] like i i don't understand this this doesn't make sense the guy the guy playing dr van helsey

[00:16:28] in this in this version of of nasferatu is like telling isabella johnny's character

[00:16:34] you know look this has to be sought out scientifically you know these are just you

[00:16:40] know these are just you know childhood things you know and you know this this the you know

[00:16:47] the children pick the flowers before and she's like going no you have to understand this is

[00:16:53] this tells me everything about you know what what is going on

[00:17:00] in right you know with john johnathan's diary is telling me everything this book is telling me

[00:17:05] everything about she in one part she's running around and there's like there's like this

[00:17:12] there's a great aerial shot of the town square and all these guys are like

[00:17:16] bringing coffins down for people who are dying from the plague and she says what are you

[00:17:21] doing what are you doing i know what's causing this i know what's causing this they're like

[00:17:26] go home go home you know don't you know you'll catch the plague no i know what's causing

[00:17:32] this you'll listen to me i know what's causing this she's like i'm you know they look at her

[00:17:38] like she's crazy but she's not crazy she's trying to tell it's like it's like you're

[00:17:44] It's like she's trying to be like, um, she's trying to tell them what's going on.

[00:17:49] And, you know, they don't want to listen to her.

[00:17:53] She's the heroine of the movie.

[00:17:54] She's the hero.

[00:17:56] It's not Jonathan.

[00:17:57] It's not it's not, uh, Van Helsing.

[00:18:01] It's her.

[00:18:03] She wants she has to kill this creature.

[00:18:06] And when there's a part that I love where he shows up in her room

[00:18:11] and he's like, introduce myself.

[00:18:15] I am Count Dracula.

[00:18:17] And she's like, you know, she's she's trying to tell her, you know, will you,

[00:18:22] you know, will you help me?

[00:18:23] There'll be salvation for you and your husband.

[00:18:26] If only and he says, if only a part take of the love that you and Jonathan had,

[00:18:32] then it shows you he wants to be loved.

[00:18:34] He wants love.

[00:18:36] And yeah, I think.

[00:18:39] Yeah.

[00:18:42] I'm like scattered.

[00:18:42] I'm like going all over the place with this movie.

[00:18:45] The movie is pretty over the place, but it's not unorganized or sloppy.

[00:18:49] It's not.

[00:18:49] No, no, no.

[00:18:50] But it's like it's like she she has to be the one that has to destroy in the 22 version.

[00:18:57] She's like, you know, damsel in distress, you know, help me, help me, help me, help me.

[00:19:02] In this one, she's like, I have to kill this thing.

[00:19:05] And if you're not going to help me, I'm going to do it myself.

[00:19:09] And that's that's the one thing I love.

[00:19:11] He changes he changes the heroin.

[00:19:14] Yeah.

[00:19:14] No, to be to be, you know, and this is the senior,

[00:19:17] this is the senior aliens comes out.

[00:19:20] So you have to realize it was a progressive year.

[00:19:23] It's a progress.

[00:19:24] This is this is this is not your dad, your daddy's vampire picture.

[00:19:29] So every character has a purpose here.

[00:19:31] They're either going to explain info,

[00:19:33] but they're not going to be just a body count waiting to happen.

[00:19:38] No, no.

[00:19:39] Yeah.

[00:19:39] And just the way you described it, JJ, the thing it kind of flips.

[00:19:44] It's kind of I'm going to say this badly,

[00:19:48] but it reinforces a trope while at the same time overturning it.

[00:19:55] When you're discussing her, she was doing trying to get people to be random.

[00:20:00] The one thing I put into my mind was Kevin McCarthy from Mazing the Body Snatchers.

[00:20:05] That's yeah, that too.

[00:20:07] That went through my head too.

[00:20:09] Yeah.

[00:20:10] And so that was a trope that that got reinforced

[00:20:14] because she was the one who knew what was going on the whole time

[00:20:17] and nobody was listening to her.

[00:20:21] But then when he said that has been inspired her to

[00:20:24] to really kind of say, I have to kill it.

[00:20:27] That's where the same trope that was reinforced got turned on its head because

[00:20:33] in the with going back to the vision of body snatchers,

[00:20:36] what he was doing was he trying to get people to listen

[00:20:39] and he just kept failing and failing and failing.

[00:20:41] But then but he didn't really accomplish anything

[00:20:46] because eventually everybody was turning to pop people.

[00:20:49] Yeah.

[00:20:51] What can you do?

[00:20:52] Yeah.

[00:20:53] And in this case, it worked the exact opposite.

[00:20:56] It was I don't want to try to understand that.

[00:20:59] I don't want to try to get more people to understand it.

[00:21:01] I just have to get rid of it.

[00:21:03] Right.

[00:21:04] I can ask for their help and waste a lot of time

[00:21:08] just getting angry that they are still in disbelief at my findings

[00:21:11] or I can just take out the trash.

[00:21:14] Exactly.

[00:21:18] Yeah.

[00:21:18] Go ahead.

[00:21:18] Sorry.

[00:21:18] Go ahead.

[00:21:19] No, it's not you.

[00:21:20] You know, we yeah, like you said, it was alien coming out

[00:21:23] with alien coming out that same year where we got a version of a female protagonist

[00:21:29] who was both the quote unquote soft kind but also very much a badass.

[00:21:38] That in itself kind of lends itself into like you said,

[00:21:41] it was a very progressive year and things were kind of turning in that time frame.

[00:21:48] Women were starting to be more prominent in places that were formally just dominated by men.

[00:21:54] And to be honest, it was a sign of the times while at the same time being

[00:22:02] being a period piece almost.

[00:22:04] It was a period piece within a period piece as it were.

[00:22:08] A period piece about the expectation of the late 70s

[00:22:14] and going to even going to early 80s when women became even more prominent.

[00:22:19] While at the same time it was being built around something that happened way, way before them

[00:22:26] where the roles were clearly defined and women were expected to be in the background

[00:22:34] versus being at the forefront.

[00:22:37] Yeah.

[00:22:37] And then not only that but Jonathan Harker in this movie is not

[00:22:43] like a Jonathan Harker that we would see like in Dracula Down the Road.

[00:22:49] He's very motivated by money.

[00:22:52] Which is a nice insert because every other time it's like,

[00:22:56] okay he could go at any time and leave anywhere and we never really get any motive

[00:23:01] other than that he or Renfield are preying on people.

[00:23:06] So Renfield is almost comical but he's like strange comical.

[00:23:14] He's sitting there going, he loves his life.

[00:23:19] He goes to the guy who says, what's wrong with the patient?

[00:23:28] He's like oh the one who bit the cow?

[00:23:30] He's like yeah, he's trying to give him food.

[00:23:33] He keeps trying to eat flies which is something he does in the movie.

[00:23:38] And then we realize he's Dracula's lackey because he comes up to Dracula.

[00:23:45] Dracula's like standing there at one point and he goes up and he's kissing Dracula's,

[00:23:50] the head of Dracula's jacket and he pushes him away.

[00:23:55] He's like what should I do now?

[00:23:57] Mastery says go now, the army of rats and the Black Death wait for you.

[00:24:06] And he's like we'll be done, we'll be done.

[00:24:10] He's like screaming and yelling and shit like that.

[00:24:13] And he's very hysterical but it's not unintentionally funny at all.

[00:24:16] It's just a good-

[00:24:17] It's just, it's kind of like you're kind of disturbed a little bit about it.

[00:24:22] You know?

[00:24:23] But this guy brings out the worst in everybody even before he kills them.

[00:24:29] Oh yeah, yeah and the thing that I've loved about this movie is that

[00:24:35] the ending is such a curveball.

[00:24:38] Yeah it's earned.

[00:24:40] Because we gotta let everybody know that you know that Jonathan has bitten twice

[00:24:48] by Dracula and then remember the first night he's there

[00:24:51] he's slicing the bread and he cuts his finger.

[00:24:57] And where in 22 it's like your blood, your precious blood,

[00:25:01] he says Dracula walks up to him because the knife is old,

[00:25:05] it can be dirty, you could get the blood poisoning.

[00:25:09] And he just grabs the finger just starts sucking on it and he's like

[00:25:13] for the best.

[00:25:15] He's like it's the oldest remedy.

[00:25:18] I'm like no it's not but you know.

[00:25:21] Nope.

[00:25:23] So as he's coming home he escapes the castle right?

[00:25:28] He escapes the castle, he's sick, he goes home,

[00:25:33] he doesn't recognize Lucy, he's sitting in the chair at one point

[00:25:37] and he's like the sun it's hurting me.

[00:25:41] And we're like okay that doesn't sound right.

[00:25:45] Yeah.

[00:25:45] As soon as we watch him he starts to become like paler and paler

[00:25:49] and paler and his eyes are sinking in more.

[00:25:54] And at the end it's like oh fuck.

[00:25:59] And he goes he goes the ending is great because they do the classic you know

[00:26:06] him drinking the blood and then he doesn't evaporate the sunlight.

[00:26:10] He has like the sun just like you know waxing like kills him basically.

[00:26:16] Oh I totally know that.

[00:26:17] There's Van Helsing sitting there going oh god I should have listened to her.

[00:26:23] A snake and a hammer, I must dispatch this scene quickly.

[00:26:27] And he runs out and he comes back with a snake and a hammer.

[00:26:30] Jonathan goes wait where are you going?

[00:26:34] And you got to remember before she's going to sacrifice herself for Dracula

[00:26:39] she puts the consecrated host around him so Dracula cannot get to him.

[00:26:46] And you hear him like nailing the snake in Dracula's heart and Jonathan goes like this

[00:26:54] goes oh like that like and he's like he's like help help he's like he is Van Helsing he has

[00:27:03] murdered the count and there's like you know Van Helsing with the bloody snake and the hammer

[00:27:08] he's like he's like what is this I did what I had to do he's like that's where the corpse

[00:27:13] is to the side you're under arrest.

[00:27:16] And Van Helsing gets arrested for killing the count so then what happens is they all leave

[00:27:24] he tells the maid pitch your broom sweep this up can't you see it's dirty he's like

[00:27:30] and also he takes the he takes the crucifix off and throws it to the ground

[00:27:34] and then he opens his mouth and he's got the fangs

[00:27:38] and the nails and he goes he goes steal the broom for the official autopsy

[00:27:45] bring me my horse I have much work to do and he rides off into the sunset

[00:27:52] or the sun yeah like you know he rides off into eternity.

[00:27:55] This is the definition of cinematic.

[00:27:58] Yeah yeah it's like it's like that idea of like wait a minute the guy who was supposed

[00:28:03] to be the hero now becomes the villain.

[00:28:06] Yeah and what you know what we see is like this guy who's like

[00:28:10] you know he was so innocuous to what was going on and he didn't realize

[00:28:15] you know in the end he became the thing that he did you know.

[00:28:20] It would benefit from even a few different rewatches at college courses I think just

[00:28:24] because it's so much to take in all at once.

[00:28:27] Yeah yeah yeah.

[00:28:28] So there we bring up the bastard sequel.

[00:28:33] Oh god.

[00:28:35] By infamous producer Augusto Caminito who credits include oh yep it's really bad I

[00:28:43] saw it on Tubi about a few years back about everyone knows.

[00:28:48] Oh well there you go everyone's probably much heard about it there's a cameo by

[00:28:54] Christopher Plummer it has nothing to do it's a cash in the actress was who he's

[00:29:01] supposed to be making out with was basically sexually assaulted behind the scenes and

[00:29:04] to where the yeah and Augusto Caminito I mean his credits include a Django and

[00:29:12] Name Only movie the Western The Ruthless Four the cop thriller The Great Kidnapping

[00:29:19] and the giallo comedy The Cat and this pretty much ended his directing career he

[00:29:23] was just like I thought this would be an easy cash in and this is just more trouble than it's worth.

[00:29:30] From what Kinsky kicked him off the movie.

[00:29:33] Yeah and but after the actress just played you know read them the riot acts he was

[00:29:42] like we're shutting this damn film down we're gonna have to use whatever footage we got

[00:29:46] because there's just nothing else we can use here without this guy just.

[00:29:50] The way they did the story was okay so basically he was they found him in a and they trapped him in a

[00:30:01] like a freaking vault yeah very bizarre the family's trying to like I just forget the

[00:30:10] it was just kind of I just want to see Nosferatu in Venice I'm like oh gee

[00:30:14] and Kinsky didn't want to shave his head again he kept his hair long

[00:30:18] and he couldn't even do the nails or anything like that the thing I gotta say about Nosferatu

[00:30:25] the 79 remake is the makeup is astounding yeah because I found out a couple of things number

[00:30:33] one that make those ears were destroyed almost every day yeah the woman who did

[00:30:41] who did the makeup was this like Vietnamese woman and she was really good at applying

[00:30:46] the makeup for him and what I found out was Kinsky would Kinsky wanted to play Dracula almost

[00:30:58] frenetic and and Herzog would tell him no you can't do that Kinsky would have a tantrum

[00:31:07] and then he would then after he was done with the tantrum he'd say okay let's shoot the movie

[00:31:12] and that's why Kinsky has such a subdued performance in the film because he's basically

[00:31:18] tired yeah he really is and he was on his best behavior under Herzog except for his

[00:31:28] other further productions and yeah on that unofficial sequel he basically he just didn't

[00:31:35] want to do the work and one of the biggest complaints is the film just kind of goes from

[00:31:40] scene to scene without any foreshadowing or brooding suspense and you wonder what happened

[00:31:46] to these characters but it's kind of like a typical Italian ripoff a lot of nudity yeah

[00:31:54] it's too sexy a movie and it's not sexy or anything it's just one of those where you're

[00:31:59] just like this is trashy and these actors literally had one or two days of filming and

[00:32:04] left Donald Pleasance appears and you're like yeah where'd he go it's kind of sad when you

[00:32:10] think about it because that's one of the last movies Kinsky would make because he would do

[00:32:16] I think it was right before Cobra Verde because you gotta remember they only did five movies

[00:32:21] together him and Herzog yes goes in the wrath of god Nosferatu 10 days after Nosferatu

[00:32:29] 10 days after Nosferatu wrapped they did Wojcik which is where he plays the the

[00:32:36] lunatic soldier then he does Fitzcarraldo and then he does uh Cobra Verde which is basically

[00:32:46] I think from what I remember like what I read was that Kinsky gave Herzog the script for

[00:32:58] Paganini and Herzog turned to him and said this is unfilmable I won't do this

[00:33:07] but if you watch Paganini you can see why because it's a piece of shit yeah yeah oh this

[00:33:12] is the same guy who was offered to be one of the lead Nazis in Raiders of the Lost Ark

[00:33:16] and he returned the script saying it was a piece of shit yeah I don't like this movie

[00:33:22] is a piece of shit but Nosferatu the vampire to me is like it it it was so

[00:33:34] I saw it when I was eight years old oh yeah I was sitting like yeah yeah I remember it being so

[00:33:44] like it hit me like like Star Wars it hit me I was like I was like wait a minute

[00:33:51] this isn't how vampire movies are supposed to be right and then and then I saw the 22 version

[00:33:57] when I was in high school because you got to remember the 20 the 19 the original version

[00:34:04] by Murnau um was was not really in a lot of circulation back then no it was uh you know

[00:34:12] it was kind of like like good times video would put it out you know it'd be the wrong

[00:34:16] wouldn't be any sound to it so um you know so you'd have to figure that out and then they

[00:34:23] put out you know the official remastered cleaned up version of it and then they did and then

[00:34:31] I got my parents got me the video cassette double pack oh man um by by Anchor Bay because I

[00:34:42] found out later there were two versions shot yeah there's a English version which is basically

[00:34:50] the wide release one then there's a German version which is a little more how there's two

[00:34:58] original Universal Monster versions of Dracula there's a Spanish in American version but it's

[00:35:03] like you say you tell the average cinema buff they're like what's the difference I'm like

[00:35:08] there's a lot of difference yeah the the German version of Dracula is more uh

[00:35:15] yes he's more fierce in it when he plays the character he's got a little bit there's a little

[00:35:21] bit more um animalistic in his approach to when he's to when he's with them because

[00:35:30] you know in the English version you can tell they're just like they're like okay

[00:35:32] say these lines and then boom we're done they do the German version they would just shoot

[00:35:37] each scene back to back you know and just try to you know very fierce and yeah I know most

[00:35:44] people are going to say hey the original Nosferatu that's my jam or Popola's Dracula

[00:35:49] but this is my personal jam this is one of my favorites I'm not gonna make a vampire movie

[00:35:54] because it's like you say it's less experimental and more organized and

[00:36:02] it doesn't cater to genre tropes I tried to figure it out one time like what yeah it is

[00:36:12] hard to explain why it's so good it's amazing you know what it is it's a director who's done

[00:36:19] movies that are so offbeat that's the way to put it offbeat yeah he does his first big movie

[00:36:26] is a query of the wrath of god have you guys seen a query of the wrath of god love it got to see it

[00:36:31] at a college station and I was like see this is the way to see this movie um Tom did you ever

[00:36:37] see it I have not it's it's a very nutty frilling outrageous premise and it works so well

[00:36:46] yeah imagine imagine hearts of darkness by Joseph Conrad there you go except it's

[00:36:52] conquistadors absolutely and like Lawrence of Arabia like it shouldn't work at all but it

[00:36:58] you see all the heartbreak blood sweat and tears that behind the scenes just perfectly make it on

[00:37:04] screen you know and then there's oh go ahead Tom I have an insight possibly on why this was

[00:37:13] quite the Kinski version was so so revolutionary it has a lot to do with the films like all

[00:37:20] the vampire movies that came in from not brought to to not Serato in this case you have

[00:37:28] got the universal the bellegosi version which is handy but still has a lot of it there then

[00:37:35] you get into maybe a few spatial now a little bit and then you get into the 60s and 70s with

[00:37:43] the hammer films yeah and those I think those kind of became the this is what vampires are

[00:37:54] whereas with the three different hammer but I would love to do a double feature with one of

[00:37:58] the better hammer Dracula movies for sure though yeah yeah my wife was a big hammer fan

[00:38:04] and she's turned me on to so many of the films like yeah pregnant sign must be destroyed

[00:38:11] we'll do another special soon I swear yeah but I'll tell you the that became a standard

[00:38:17] whereas with the with with the bellegosi that became the standard until hammer came along

[00:38:24] and then hammer became the standard until you started seeing I want to say until the

[00:38:30] Kinski version because yeah even then it didn't quite catch on but but we see this

[00:38:37] the gradual change of the genre a little twist and turns here I think the one thing that really

[00:38:44] set it apart for me from the original was use of color versus black and white black and white

[00:38:51] has its own yep its own palette yeah yeah and it has its own and even with the grainy or

[00:38:58] older version you're dealing with the lack of color becomes part of the story and part of the

[00:39:05] atmosphere part it becomes bingo it becomes what we considered what we considered to be gothic

[00:39:12] when you add color to it it it changes things it makes things a lot more visceral

[00:39:19] and not so not so gritty but it makes it more I'm not saying it adds a level of

[00:39:26] believability to it even more accepting yeah yeah even the hammer films which were done in

[00:39:32] color yeah those were still muted colors whereas the one thing struck out with me was

[00:39:37] how good visit the colors were we said some great art direction but as you know both wonderfully

[00:39:44] stated this is a herd dog movie first then this is a homage in some respects more even

[00:39:50] more so than a remake to the original silent movie and it's a vampire movie last

[00:39:55] but you got to think too tom the colors in it when you say the color a lot of it is like

[00:40:02] it's not washed out he doesn't have a lot of bright stuff in there

[00:40:06] not over-saturated and not last minute washed out like when they're in the town

[00:40:12] and she's walking through the town and there's that one scene with the the couples that are

[00:40:18] eating and the rats are on the food and they the woman goes you know come join us it's our

[00:40:23] last supper we've all caught the plague and that seemed just kind of like like you just

[00:40:29] watch and you're looking at the colors everything it's not sharp you know like like most like

[00:40:34] most vampire moves everything you could see the sharpness in everybody it's almost filtered like

[00:40:40] you're looking at a painting and somebody brought up in a thing that I was watching

[00:40:46] there's a painter that Herzog loved to look at I forgot his name some like 1800s painter

[00:40:58] where yeah part of this part is on one side and then the scene on the other side and it's like

[00:41:05] you know okay now I know what he's doing here he's showing

[00:41:08] the colors are not like you know it's not like it's not like you know green grass it's like the

[00:41:16] grass is kind of washed out and the sky's kind of gray and you know a lot of it is early morning

[00:41:23] you know late afternoon there's no 12 o'clock you know high noon shit yeah it's just like

[00:41:29] you know it's very like like it's kind of like that feeling of a dream which is one way

[00:41:36] which is one way I think you could see it as um my mom when she saw it a couple of times she used

[00:41:44] to say it was like a Flemish painting I love that stating yeah and I was like I don't know

[00:41:51] what she meant by that till she told me she's like well Flemish paintings meant you know there

[00:41:56] was it was always something beautiful on the outside but when you look when you turn you

[00:42:02] look at the other part of the painting it was always something dirty and disgusting you know

[00:42:06] like worms or something like you know she she said that's what it felt like for her a lot

[00:42:11] of times and I said well you know that's a very good way of looking at it you know I

[00:42:17] I just I just kind of see it as like you know a vampire movie where there's not

[00:42:24] you know you don't have that crushing chords there's not a lot of music either yeah

[00:42:30] it does not it speaks for itself the only part I the only part I remember is when they're showing

[00:42:37] the the the townspeople having like a dance of death you know because the plate going around

[00:42:44] and stuff like that and they're playing this song called Skidaro which is on a uh all things

[00:42:52] of uh Kate Bush record oh and she took part of that from Kate like it's on she actually

[00:43:14] heard it in Nosferatu put it in on one of her records that's um it's like this it's like

[00:43:20] this it's like this like I keep thinking it's like Serbian or it's like Serbian or Croatian

[00:43:26] like like song about something I don't know what it was but it's just really like kind

[00:43:33] of like almost like throat singing almost and then at the end he uses he uses Sanctus which

[00:43:40] is something I've never heard for uh from an opera or something like that but there's there's

[00:43:46] a part where and when you talk about the color it's almost like he doesn't want to have

[00:43:52] the sharp bright colors he doesn't want to have he just wants it to be kind of like dark

[00:43:57] and disturbing but not to the point where you're like going to kind of like we're going

[00:44:01] am I am I dreaming this am I seeing this is this something I should be looking at you know

[00:44:06] that's the way I look at with him you know and he he did a great job doing it you know I mean

[00:44:12] you know his other movies you know like like uh Fitzcarraldo which and would be like you know

[00:44:20] eons above what he did because Fitzcarraldo is you know he moves a steamship over a freaking

[00:44:25] mountain but you know the color is green and there's like you know green and white you know

[00:44:30] the way the the opera looks is like you know this was like you know even just some of his other

[00:44:40] just period piece dramas and documentaries kind of just give us a sense of a craftsman who

[00:44:45] retakes every element every stage of the series even before he started storyboarding

[00:44:50] and planning he never used a storyboard he never does really okay no he's not

[00:45:00] didn't talk about he's like to me storyboards are just putting your imagination down you know

[00:45:06] you said something something about storyboards and I was like oh god thank you thank you

[00:45:12] you know that's the way and the thing and you realize it's not storyboarded

[00:45:16] he sets everything up a certain way he'll go over like like maybe three or four times with

[00:45:20] the actors in this movie and he will just he was telling okay you're here you're here

[00:45:25] you see the lines you're doing this this and this and that's it that's awesome so he's more

[00:45:29] worried about the staging versus planning nice yeah you have to watch the oh I'm sorry go

[00:45:38] ahead Tom I've seen my best friend I haven't seen the other ones yet yeah it's like same

[00:45:44] thing like you would do with like that's what sets the part too big is it because this version

[00:45:50] seems more like a stage play yeah because you're looking at yeah things we're looking at blocking

[00:45:56] you're looking at where things are and you're and you're doing more with with the atmosphere

[00:46:02] itself than necessarily just here's here's the vampire here's sucking in the blood here's this

[00:46:11] here's this is just so that's one of the I would say this is one of those times when

[00:46:17] a filmmaker taking an approach of a stage play yeah really works and then you go to the other

[00:46:26] stream with the room with with Tommy we saw that didn't translate over at all but in

[00:46:32] but in this case the lack of a storyboard the lack of I guess basically going with with

[00:46:39] physically figuring out where things need to be and who needs to be where and that elevates

[00:46:47] the movie tremendously and it really shows it shows a craftsman a master craftsman an absolute

[00:46:54] one people could be studying for for centuries to come I hope provided they're not students

[00:47:02] provided they're not bored off their minds with the 40 second remake of Dracula

[00:47:06] that would we're gonna do Dracula but this time we're gonna put him in a funny hat

[00:47:12] well I hope they can something a mr show sketch that is a great one um I hope they can study him

[00:47:21] I hope they can study just even just people like Ingmar Bergman yeah and just yeah sorry

[00:47:27] not the actress yeah but even other German and Swedish Brazilian filmmakers who

[00:47:35] value everything they've got you know you have to realize he was part of that new wave heard song

[00:47:41] with him uh Fassbender Rainier Fassbender and Vim Vanders who I love uh wings of desire

[00:47:52] I love Vim Vanders that's a good call yep which has which which has uh Bruno Gans in it playing an angel

[00:48:00] yeah I love I love that you like you know just he cut like it's just so fun to watch that movie

[00:48:06] far away so close and wings of desire because they redid it with uh Nicholas Cage and I

[00:48:12] hated it um they did they did wings of desire and I was like oh yeah I watched

[00:48:20] which one did I watch with girls games as far away so closer yeah as far away so angels I

[00:48:25] think yeah yeah they read the theater they did a city of angels I was like yeah you know um

[00:48:31] but the thing I loved about this was um

[00:48:37] thing that gets me the most is like nobody's over acting in this no no one's trying to

[00:48:43] ham it up or overdo it either or and it's not like most vampire movies where you're

[00:48:49] looking forward to the next you know seduction or gory sword fight and compelment it's it's not

[00:48:56] that kind of expectation that the modern day crowd would probably be looking for I mean

[00:49:02] there's one part I love like Dracula's taking up the creative earth into a church that's

[00:49:10] desanctified right and you know he's he's he's running it in he's running out he sees

[00:49:15] the cross and he goes and then he runs out yeah tells it foreshadows kind of what we already know

[00:49:23] about vampire myth while also making us wonder you know is he who he claims to be is he actually

[00:49:28] impacted by this you know it's just like he's like scared of it but it's not like how it

[00:49:32] used to be right when we should when we saw Dracula when our crucifix was showing he'd be

[00:49:35] like okay he just goes and he you know he just like he's like oh I don't want to look at

[00:49:41] it and he runs away and there's a there's a comic this dark comic moment yeah he does that oh it's

[00:49:48] a little more subtle and compared to in your face and you know as compared to the Christopher

[00:49:55] Lee version yeah or the or the famous uh Lawrence Olivier doing the world's worst

[00:50:02] eastern european accent you know what my hands come hey hey hey Larry you did that voice in

[00:50:13] voice from brazil don't have to i did that's my god there was there was three vampire movies

[00:50:21] and then they did Salem's lot i think a year later yeah well i mean either way it was tv but

[00:50:28] yeah around that time yeah and and i just remember like thinking to myself okay but

[00:50:35] the vampire they had in there played by Reggie Nadler was scary as shit oh yeah now i

[00:50:42] now all the behind the scenes footage of him with the makeup on and i'm like

[00:50:48] not that scary

[00:50:49] yeah and now Robert now they're gonna now they're remaking Nosferatu with Robert Eggert

[00:50:59] yeah the witch was not my cup of tea sorry the witch the lighthouse i think he did the

[00:51:07] Norseman too right i haven't seen the northman i heard that one was pretty slow but the

[00:51:11] lighthouse i was just like so who is this for i hope he doesn't screw it up i hope he

[00:51:20] i hope he does it where he takes it and it becomes you know twilight you know i hope he

[00:51:29] does it where it's dark and he puts a little you know i know Bill Starsgarde's playing the

[00:51:35] vampire so you know that'll be good but yet again and i think to myself

[00:51:44] you know who knows you know you know he could have he could have a great hit on his hands

[00:51:49] or it could be a mega piece of shit you know yeah i mean you can't you can't top

[00:51:56] i mean i've always said this you know the 22 is great just for Max Shrek alone

[00:52:02] yes the 1979 one yeah it's just great it's more it's more multifaceted you know bingo

[00:52:11] and i gotta say this about the scenes with um Dracula and Lucy is like

[00:52:20] he kind of looks at Lucy as a peanut butter sandwich yeah he wants to play the peanut butter

[00:52:25] sandwich but he can't have the peanut butter sandwich yeah you know and i describe a woman

[00:52:32] like a peanut butter sandwich it's like it's like none of you understand he has he's a he's

[00:52:37] a human he's still a human but he has animalistic tendencies right he's a brute but that's that's

[00:52:43] the way i was trying to explain it before so and and i mean this kind of goes back to just

[00:52:51] kind of the general idea of what a vampire is it's a cannibal that you know thrives on blood

[00:52:57] sucking and everything and like you said like you've all of both perfectly portrayed it's

[00:53:05] and this movie both uh doesn't take part in genre expectations but it also with this extra

[00:53:13] characterization helps further the talking points of what has now become pretty absurd

[00:53:19] in today's subgenres you know oh yeah i think i think in a way the vampires now like uh

[00:53:29] Twilight not much different than zombies half the time you know no see i'm saying like

[00:53:36] i you know i mean Twilight is a love story it just happens to be a vampire and a human being

[00:53:43] i mean this is a story of a guy who wants love and can't have it because he you know there's that

[00:53:52] animalistic nature within him and you know the woman he loves you know doesn't love him back

[00:53:59] but there's a point where you do see kind of an attraction yep you know and you know what

[00:54:04] better yet i'm gonna do this as a double feature one day with george romero's marten

[00:54:09] oh yeah which is like the ultimate stopping yourself from becoming a vampire and failing

[00:54:15] movie yeah so sad so poignant and so we'll put together it's really hard to find even though

[00:54:23] hey issued it rest in peace yeah and i that's the one thing i want to i want to see martin

[00:54:29] you know there's two movies i want to see you do i want to see martin and i want to

[00:54:34] see there's always vanilla oh that's a good one yeah you can find a very rare uh blu-ray

[00:54:41] double feature that was season of the witch and i recommend that one because it also comes with

[00:54:46] that stars documentary show from the 90s the the directors yeah you learned so much more about

[00:54:53] romero on that episode and great special features also on each on that side disc it's

[00:55:00] i love how he does he does night of the living dead and then he does this

[00:55:04] nice little emotional drama yeah zombie and it just it just tanks and he's like oh okay i might

[00:55:11] just go back to doing like you know i just i just love i read the story i was like holy

[00:55:18] shit it's a good story you know he had to he had to make adaptations but uh it kind of

[00:55:25] like when you ask someone how big a fan they are you know and if they've only seen that actor in

[00:55:29] that one signature franchise role you can say okay well not that big a fan but same thing with

[00:55:35] romero i always ask him is like do you only know him from his apocalyptic zombie dramas or

[00:55:40] have you actually gone out and seen all his other original projects before he started adapting

[00:55:46] friend steven king's novels yeah there's a craftsman much like hers dog yeah hers the one

[00:55:57] thing i want to say about herzog is that he if you watch these if you watch there's this

[00:56:03] behind the scenes things you have to watch i promise i will get this blu-ray one day

[00:56:10] oh it's it's a behind the scenes actually on youtube oh i haven't pulled it's it's him it's

[00:56:16] kinsky it's them it's them showing behind the scenes of everything you know how he doesn't

[00:56:22] have the cast and the crew like you know every it was kind of a communal thing uh the league

[00:56:27] of shadows no no no no no making us rod too make it was it was it was something like it was

[00:56:34] shit i was trying to remember it it's like 79 making up okay yeah 13 minutes

[00:56:41] right and it's like you know it shows you know it shows everybody you know going through their

[00:56:45] stuff doing this doing that and it's like you know the only one who didn't speak german was

[00:56:50] it was isabella johnny she had the phonetically learned german for the german version or she

[00:56:57] might have been dubbed it's like you know they show uh beaverly walker who was the script

[00:57:04] script lady this dialogue coach you know telling bruno gans how to say stuff you know

[00:57:11] how this would work how that would work you know and it's truly it's a good watch you know

[00:57:16] it's a fun watch to watch i promise i will check this out yes uh thanks again once again

[00:57:24] just slaughtered it you owned it we'll be back here next week we made it our bitch

[00:57:30] we made it our bitch we'll return after these messages

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