Media, Motherhood and F%cking Perspective with Sonni Abatta

[00:00:00] What is up all of my beautiful freaking people?

[00:00:03] Welcome back to another episode of FML Talk.

[00:00:07] Today is a good one.

[00:00:09] We are covering a lot of fucking bases.

[00:00:11] So sit back, grab a cocktail and welcome to FML Talk.

[00:00:15] Oh my God.

[00:00:16] Wait, how old was the other girl?

[00:00:17] 19, can you believe that shit?

[00:00:19] Hey, this is Gabrielle Stone.

[00:00:21] Good book?

[00:00:21] I did not inject her with cannabis.

[00:00:23] He did what?

[00:00:24] 48 hours?

[00:00:25] What a dick.

[00:00:26] Yeah, but have you seen all the photos on her Instagram?

[00:00:29] And this is FML Talk.

[00:00:31] Oh no, she didn't.

[00:00:33] Okay you guys, it's a good one today.

[00:00:35] Sunny Abada is here.

[00:00:37] I had such a wonderful chat with her.

[00:00:41] She is an Emmy nominated and award winning journalist

[00:00:45] who did years of TV anchors and incredible journalist work.

[00:00:51] And we're gonna get in to a myriad

[00:00:55] of different topics today.

[00:00:57] We chat motherhood, we chat about the crazy feelings

[00:01:01] I've been experiencing recently.

[00:01:04] And then we're going to get into how to stay present

[00:01:10] and untriggered in such a media dense world

[00:01:14] and how you can put yourself in other people's shoes

[00:01:17] and look at other perspectives to make sure

[00:01:21] you are doing your due diligence

[00:01:24] to be a good partner in a relationship,

[00:01:28] to make sure you're really just like being present

[00:01:32] and allowing yourself to see all opposing viewpoints.

[00:01:36] It was a really interesting conversation

[00:01:38] and it was a fun one.

[00:01:40] I adore her.

[00:01:41] So let's hop into it.

[00:01:47] Sunny Abada, welcome to FML Talk.

[00:01:49] Girl, how are you?

[00:01:50] Thank you for being here.

[00:01:52] I'm so excited to be here.

[00:01:53] Thank you for having me.

[00:01:54] You are so welcome.

[00:01:56] What's going on?

[00:01:57] How's your day going?

[00:01:58] We were both late getting to this interview.

[00:02:00] It's a shit show.

[00:02:02] Full pit sweats, full pit sweats

[00:02:04] because I was just telling you

[00:02:05] before we started recording, I'm home.

[00:02:07] I have three kids.

[00:02:08] Two of them are sick at home.

[00:02:09] Like for a whole week, this was like no ordinary virus.

[00:02:13] And so we had pediatrician appointments at the last minute

[00:02:15] and I'm picking one up from school.

[00:02:17] I mean, it's a total shit show 100% of the time.

[00:02:20] And then I was freaking out about the link not working.

[00:02:22] I always tell this to people.

[00:02:23] I am actually very organized and thoughtful

[00:02:26] and I show up when I'm supposed to show up

[00:02:28] but getting from point A to B is just a total mess.

[00:02:31] And I feel like that's due to the fact that I'm a mother

[00:02:34] and I'm constantly worrying about other people

[00:02:37] like on top of my own needs.

[00:02:38] So the important part is I got here, but it was a struggle.

[00:02:41] I don't know why I had to be here.

[00:02:43] Fair.

[00:02:44] The fact that you're doing it with three kids,

[00:02:45] like we have two right now.

[00:02:47] I have a four month old and then my stepdaughter

[00:02:51] who's 11, who is also homesick today

[00:02:54] and so it's just the chaos of like scheduling

[00:02:57] and keeping everyone alive just in general.

[00:03:00] Like, it's so, I don't know how you're doing it with three.

[00:03:02] It's insane.

[00:03:03] I was just listening to your episode with Coco,

[00:03:06] I can't pronounce her last name,

[00:03:07] in like the intro about how when you become a mom

[00:03:10] you lose control.

[00:03:10] That is literally the advice I give to every woman

[00:03:13] about to give birth.

[00:03:14] I'm like, here's the thing.

[00:03:15] Here's the only thing you need to know.

[00:03:16] You're not in control anymore.

[00:03:18] And that's it.

[00:03:19] And the sooner you accept it and like,

[00:03:21] you know, for better and for worse,

[00:03:23] the better off you are mentally.

[00:03:24] So yeah, it's just a lot, you know?

[00:03:26] And I don't think I ever appreciated how much,

[00:03:30] how many notes would be playing at once

[00:03:32] in the symphony of life until I had kids

[00:03:34] and I'm like, wow, there's actually a whole lot to do.

[00:03:37] So anyway.

[00:03:38] Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:39] My mom told me the same exact thing.

[00:03:40] She was like, if you want to realize

[00:03:42] how much control you don't have, have a child.

[00:03:47] It's insane.

[00:03:48] She was like, Gabrielle, you're 35

[00:03:49] and I'm literally still trying to figure you out

[00:03:51] every time I think I have it down,

[00:03:53] you fucking change on me.

[00:03:54] And I'm like, okay, well, here we go.

[00:03:56] I know.

[00:03:57] I like to call my mom and complain about something

[00:03:59] with the kids.

[00:04:00] She's like, Sonny, just reflect for a moment.

[00:04:01] You're 42 and you're calling me for advice.

[00:04:03] I'm like, ah, perfectly put.

[00:04:04] So this never ends?

[00:04:05] And she was like, no, it never ends.

[00:04:07] Like, okay, we'll get to know.

[00:04:09] I love it.

[00:04:10] Good to know.

[00:04:11] I love it.

[00:04:11] Well, I'm so glad that we both got our shit together

[00:04:13] and made it here.

[00:04:14] Here we are.

[00:04:15] Can you tell me a little bit about your background

[00:04:18] and how you got it is to what you're doing now?

[00:04:22] Yeah, so my background was in journalism.

[00:04:24] I spent 15 years reporting and anchoring, mostly in news.

[00:04:28] I did do a sprinkling of weather reporting,

[00:04:30] which was interesting.

[00:04:31] And I did sports in the very beginning of my career,

[00:04:33] which was fun, but mostly in news.

[00:04:36] I covered some really big stories,

[00:04:38] the Casey Anthony trial, the George Zimmerman trial.

[00:04:41] I've interviewed presidential candidates

[00:04:44] and gone through Secret Service lines

[00:04:46] and flown in fighter jets, like really fun stuff.

[00:04:49] I did that for, oh gosh, like I said, 15 years,

[00:04:52] then probably six and a half or seven years ago now,

[00:04:54] I left.

[00:04:55] This is like the super condensed version

[00:04:57] because I had just gotten pregnant with our third baby

[00:05:00] and the schedule was, there was a lot of reasons,

[00:05:02] but it was a lot.

[00:05:04] We were just, like the motherhood stuff

[00:05:05] we were just talking about.

[00:05:07] I came to a point in time where as much as I had loved

[00:05:11] everything I did with work and I loved it really.

[00:05:14] I'm a nerd at heart and interviewing people

[00:05:16] is a true joy for me.

[00:05:18] So I loved the work of work, I did not like the schedule.

[00:05:21] And I came to a sort of line in the sand

[00:05:23] and I was like, okay, you either get to have

[00:05:26] a healthy relationship and a healthy relationship

[00:05:29] with your kids or a great job and then one of those two.

[00:05:32] And I was like, well, I can't pick the job over humans.

[00:05:36] So I need to take a minute and recalibrate a little bit.

[00:05:40] And that's not to say, I guess I always say this

[00:05:43] when I talk about the decision I made.

[00:05:45] I realized I was in a position of privilege

[00:05:47] being married to a spouse, I could step back.

[00:05:50] He had a job, he had healthcare.

[00:05:52] But I wish someone would have given me that permission

[00:05:55] a little earlier.

[00:05:56] I'm like an 80s, 90s baby and very much grew up

[00:05:59] amongst the dialogue of you can and should do it all.

[00:06:02] My mom was a full-time working mom

[00:06:04] and she kicked ass like 24 seven.

[00:06:07] Like the house was clean,

[00:06:08] the food was homemade Italian food every night.

[00:06:11] I mean like, but I think those jobs were different back then

[00:06:14] in the career that I was pursuing.

[00:06:16] Unfortunately, the schedule was incompatible

[00:06:18] with the type of family life that I wanted.

[00:06:20] So I made a decision, I guess it's been seven years now

[00:06:23] to do the math, yeah.

[00:06:24] To step back and I've been in the digital space,

[00:06:27] social media, blogging and most recently the podcast

[00:06:31] about five years ago, I started the podcast.

[00:06:33] So it still allows me to do what I love with work

[00:06:35] which is talk to people, but on my own schedule

[00:06:38] and it's been a real joy.

[00:06:41] Yeah, it's fun.

[00:06:42] I think it's important to have that dialogue

[00:06:46] because there is so much,

[00:06:50] I don't know if pressure is the right word,

[00:06:52] pressure expectation or maybe just individual want

[00:06:55] to when we become mothers to be like,

[00:06:58] no, fuck you, I'm going to do it all.

[00:07:00] I'm going to continue to have my career.

[00:07:03] I know for me specifically my career in the past three years

[00:07:08] has really been on this upswing

[00:07:10] and I've created my business, my books have been going

[00:07:13] and in my mind I was like, okay,

[00:07:17] let me have a couple more years to really get this

[00:07:20] to where I want it and then I'll have kids.

[00:07:23] And it was like, the universe was like, okay, bitch,

[00:07:25] first of all, you don't decide this timeline

[00:07:28] and now looking back on it,

[00:07:30] I can't imagine having waited any longer than I did

[00:07:33] to bring him into this world

[00:07:34] and I'm so thankful that I've made that choice

[00:07:37] and am now juggling both of the things.

[00:07:40] But I think that we're so often told that there is a choice.

[00:07:44] It's either you're doing the career

[00:07:46] or you're doing the mom thing

[00:07:48] and then if you do try and do both,

[00:07:50] good luck to let us know how it goes

[00:07:52] because I'm doing both right now

[00:07:54] and it's wild and insane and the juggling

[00:07:58] and the schedules and having grandma come and help,

[00:08:00] having friends come and help, like it's crazy.

[00:08:03] So when you made that decision,

[00:08:05] did you have any like hard feelings around it

[00:08:10] or was it just a really easy,

[00:08:12] like I'm gonna step back and be a mom?

[00:08:13] It was really easy.

[00:08:14] In fact, I had gone into my news director's office

[00:08:16] a year before I left and quit.

[00:08:18] And then I remember we were on a playground,

[00:08:22] my second, my first daughter,

[00:08:24] so I have a son and two girls

[00:08:26] and she, the middle one was probably two

[00:08:30] and I'm pushing her on the swing

[00:08:32] and I get a call, this was like around contract time

[00:08:34] and the news director calls

[00:08:35] and you're in negotiations and the agent and blah, blah, blah

[00:08:38] and he's like, I know this is something on your mind,

[00:08:40] like what are your thoughts?

[00:08:41] And I was like, you know what, I'm done.

[00:08:42] Like I really appreciate it and I love,

[00:08:44] there's really nothing bad I could say about my job ever.

[00:08:47] I had wonderful coworkers and a wonderful boss

[00:08:49] and I was like, I'm done, thank you so much,

[00:08:51] it's been great, blah, blah, blah.

[00:08:53] I hang up my phone, I go in that day.

[00:08:54] He's like, just come into my office when you get here

[00:08:57] and I went in and then I was, this is my fault not his.

[00:09:01] I was just talked back into it like a puss.

[00:09:03] I was like, oh, yeah, I'll come back.

[00:09:05] But like, you know, it's hard to walk away from more money

[00:09:08] and a more flexible schedule

[00:09:09] and they were so wonderful

[00:09:11] with allowing me more time at home.

[00:09:14] We used to have like a dinner break

[00:09:15] instead of a lunch break.

[00:09:16] So I do a couple tapings, two newscasts, shoot promotions,

[00:09:20] head home, wipe off the makeup, whip out the boob,

[00:09:23] nurse the kids to bed,

[00:09:24] put my makeup back on and go back to work.

[00:09:26] And he's like, we'll give you the longer break

[00:09:27] and they did and I did it again for a year.

[00:09:29] I said, I will come back for a year,

[00:09:31] thank you for this concession and scheduling

[00:09:34] and every day of that last year,

[00:09:36] I was crying to my mom on the way back to work

[00:09:38] which was at nine o'clock at night.

[00:09:40] And I would say, mom, oh my God,

[00:09:42] like I'm so leaving the kids again,

[00:09:45] you know, the whole thing.

[00:09:46] And it was just such a cue to me that it wasn't right.

[00:09:48] And so I had a one year out clause and I exercised that.

[00:09:52] And again, they were great with it.

[00:09:54] I have not regretted it.

[00:09:56] And that's not to say that, you know,

[00:09:58] it wasn't a wonderful job,

[00:09:59] but like sometimes you just know

[00:10:01] when something isn't for you and it wasn't for me.

[00:10:04] And I actually felt like I was taking someone else's job.

[00:10:06] There were so many women who would want the job that I had

[00:10:08] and to me, I didn't even want it and it felt wrong.

[00:10:11] I said, let me allow someone else to enjoy this.

[00:10:14] I don't want it anymore.

[00:10:15] Yeah.

[00:10:16] Did you deal with any postpartum depression or anxiety

[00:10:20] after any of your kids?

[00:10:22] Yeah, I had anxiety that to this day continues.

[00:10:26] Is 11 years postpartum because I'm still very anxious.

[00:10:30] Yeah, I would say my son is about to turn 11.

[00:10:33] My daughter is nine.

[00:10:34] I would say with her, I was very anxious,

[00:10:36] but again, it was that time in life

[00:10:38] where I was going through a lot personally

[00:10:40] and it activated something in me

[00:10:42] that I don't think ever went away.

[00:10:44] I've learned to control it a little bit

[00:10:46] and I'm a huge proponent of talk therapy,

[00:10:48] hypnotherapy, like all the therapies.

[00:10:51] And I can acknowledge that anxiety is sort of a part

[00:10:55] of my makeup in general,

[00:10:57] but I have learned now that yes,

[00:11:00] it was sort of activated by motherhood

[00:11:01] and it's just, it's subtler now,

[00:11:03] but I know how to deal with it.

[00:11:04] And I know usually when my anxiety is speaking

[00:11:08] and when my general instinct is speaking,

[00:11:11] but it takes a little like quiet and listening

[00:11:14] because I mix them up sometimes.

[00:11:21] Summer is here and life is not slowing down

[00:11:24] for us anytime soon.

[00:11:25] One of the things that we have continuously relied on

[00:11:28] making our lives so much easier is factor meals.

[00:11:32] No prep, no mess, no cleanup meals.

[00:11:35] I have really been off the wagon with my eating

[00:11:38] since having my son and for my health,

[00:11:40] my wellness and my mental sanity,

[00:11:42] I have been switching my dinners

[00:11:44] to more healthy options from Factor.

[00:11:47] They have 35 different meals

[00:11:49] and more than 60 add-ons to choose from every week

[00:11:53] so I never get bored.

[00:11:54] And Tay is continuously shocked

[00:11:57] every time he sits down to eat one

[00:11:58] because they are so freaking tasty.

[00:12:00] They have breakfast, lunches, dinners and desserts.

[00:12:04] It's a treat to have restaurant quality food

[00:12:06] that is so easy to prepare

[00:12:08] and doesn't come with the insane Postmates bill.

[00:12:11] Head to factormeals.com slash fmltalk50

[00:12:15] and use code fmltalk50 to get 50% off your first box

[00:12:20] plus 20% off your next month.

[00:12:23] That's code fmltalk50 at factormeals.com slash fmltalk50

[00:12:29] to get 50% off your first box

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[00:12:34] while your subscription is active.

[00:12:36] Enjoy, FMLers.

[00:12:43] Recently, we were supposed to go on a trip to Big Bear.

[00:12:46] It was like our first kind of like,

[00:12:49] let's get out of the house.

[00:12:50] Let's like go somewhere.

[00:12:51] It's only a couple hour drive.

[00:12:53] It's like, let's go stay in a cabin.

[00:12:55] And I felt like I was continuously getting signs

[00:12:57] from the universe that we should not go

[00:13:00] and I was like trying to convince myself

[00:13:02] like these are your intrusive thoughts.

[00:13:03] You guys aren't gonna drive off a mountain cliff

[00:13:05] and like perish with this like little baby that we have.

[00:13:09] Like get over it.

[00:13:10] You gotta push through and like go.

[00:13:12] And then at the, like literally the day of

[00:13:16] that we were supposed to leave,

[00:13:17] my son woke up with his first cold.

[00:13:19] There was a wind advisory.

[00:13:20] I was like, we're not fucking going.

[00:13:22] We're not going.

[00:13:23] And a day later, my husband's back went out

[00:13:26] and I had to call an ambulance at like 4.30 in the morning

[00:13:28] to take him to the hospital for like a horrific back spasm.

[00:13:32] And I was like, can you fucking imagine

[00:13:33] if we would have been in Big Bear

[00:13:34] and I would have been with the baby by myself.

[00:13:37] Camping with a newborn,

[00:13:38] what like a four month old still like a baby baby

[00:13:40] and a man who cannot function.

[00:13:42] Dude, like what?

[00:13:43] That's terrifying.

[00:13:45] So I was like, okay, intrusive thoughts versus intuition.

[00:13:49] And I'm prone to anxiety too.

[00:13:51] Like I, before kids had, you know,

[00:13:54] like anxiety for no reason.

[00:13:55] I don't know why I'm anxious.

[00:13:56] But what do you, when you say motherhood activated it,

[00:14:00] what do you mean by that?

[00:14:01] Like activated the anxiety?

[00:14:03] Like, do you know where it comes from?

[00:14:05] I think because for the first time I had something

[00:14:08] or someone to lose that meant something to me

[00:14:10] more than anything else.

[00:14:12] I finally had like stakes in the game of life.

[00:14:14] Not that I haven't loved people before

[00:14:16] or haven't loved things or had strong feelings,

[00:14:18] but I mean just motherhood awakens in you.

[00:14:21] It's just a whole new version of your soul, of your essence.

[00:14:26] You can't go back.

[00:14:28] You just can't go back.

[00:14:29] And I can never embrace the fact that I will worry

[00:14:33] about three other people for as long as I am standing

[00:14:36] on this planet more than I worry about myself.

[00:14:38] So it doesn't go away.

[00:14:40] That's so devastating for me to hear.

[00:14:42] Oh my God, no.

[00:14:43] Now, you know what they say like bigger kids,

[00:14:46] bigger problems, like the worries evolve with the child.

[00:14:49] So I'm sorry, Gabrielle, it will stay.

[00:14:50] I mean, at least that's,

[00:14:51] and then I hear that it stays like my mom said,

[00:14:54] you know, Sunny, I still worry about you

[00:14:55] and you're an old lady.

[00:14:56] So I know it's kind of depressing,

[00:14:59] but I mean, you're not alone.

[00:15:01] So there you go.

[00:15:02] That's the upside.

[00:15:03] Yeah, it's so interesting.

[00:15:05] Every woman gets you now, like every other mom.

[00:15:07] Isn't that cool?

[00:15:08] That it's like, yeah.

[00:15:09] No, it's like a collective anxiety

[00:15:12] that we're now living in.

[00:15:13] It's so interesting how these episodes

[00:15:16] like randomly get scheduled

[00:15:17] in what I'm going through in my life.

[00:15:20] I was literally on the phone last night

[00:15:22] with my mom in tears.

[00:15:23] And I was like, I feel like I have

[00:15:27] since like the deaths that I've experienced

[00:15:30] in like my younger years when I lost my father.

[00:15:32] And I've had this like wall around my heart.

[00:15:35] And my mom would always be like,

[00:15:37] why can't you like fully connect with me?

[00:15:39] Like I'll look at you and be all like lovey-dovey

[00:15:41] and mushy and it's like,

[00:15:43] you're energetically kind of like holding up a wall.

[00:15:46] And I've recognized it and I knew it was a thing.

[00:15:49] And I would always be like,

[00:15:50] maybe I should go do ayahuasca.

[00:15:52] Maybe like, what is this?

[00:15:53] What type of healing do I need to do

[00:15:54] to get rid of this fucking wall?

[00:15:56] And then I had my son.

[00:15:57] And now I'm in this kind of like weird fucking free fall

[00:16:02] where I am like, the wall is down,

[00:16:05] the heart has been ripped open.

[00:16:08] And what the fuck is this?

[00:16:11] Like it's almost like I need some time to settle into it

[00:16:14] because it went from one extreme to the other.

[00:16:16] And it's so jarring that like

[00:16:19] I'm constantly fighting intrusive thoughts

[00:16:22] of like weird ways that like my son's gonna die

[00:16:25] and like shit's gonna happen to my husband.

[00:16:27] And like, what if something happens to me

[00:16:29] and then he's gonna be alone?

[00:16:30] Like it's wild.

[00:16:32] And I was not prepared for how much I feel,

[00:16:37] like how big the floodgates opened.

[00:16:42] Yeah, it's crazy.

[00:16:43] I always say it's like,

[00:16:44] it's just always bubbling below the surface.

[00:16:47] I will cry.

[00:16:48] I mean, you know those old cotton commercials,

[00:16:50] you're probably not old enough to remember the touch,

[00:16:53] the feel, the magic.

[00:16:55] You remember that one?

[00:16:56] I remember being a kid and be like, oh God.

[00:16:58] Like, so I've always been a feeler,

[00:17:00] but it now is like a millimeter below the surface

[00:17:03] and any disruption in my like normal facade, I will cry.

[00:17:07] And I think it's because of what you were just saying.

[00:17:10] It's something that opens up

[00:17:12] and I'm a spiritual as well as religious person.

[00:17:14] And I do think that there is some unlocking

[00:17:18] of some level in our soul.

[00:17:19] And it's like the biggest blessing

[00:17:22] and it's not a sad feeling, but what is it?

[00:17:25] It's a bittersweet, like motherhood is just,

[00:17:27] I always say an exercise in letting go.

[00:17:30] Every day you let go a little bit more of your child.

[00:17:32] They grow up a little bit more.

[00:17:33] They need you a little bit less.

[00:17:34] And it is so bittersweet and so beautiful

[00:17:37] and it can either make you laugh or cry.

[00:17:40] And it's just the feelings I feel like are part and parcel

[00:17:44] of the experience.

[00:17:45] And that's why it's like the craziest, most stressful

[00:17:48] and also most beautiful thing.

[00:17:49] And it's so trying to say that,

[00:17:51] remember people be like, oh, wait, you're a mom.

[00:17:53] You were like, okay, bitch, whatever.

[00:17:54] And then you become a mom and you're like,

[00:17:56] oh, it's actually really fun.

[00:17:57] You know, I don't know.

[00:17:58] Yes.

[00:17:59] It's just the great beauty of life.

[00:18:02] It's very accurate when people are like,

[00:18:04] I feel like my heart's walking around outside of my body

[00:18:07] and I'm like, yeah, and it's exhausting.

[00:18:09] Like I love it, but like, fuck, it's a lot.

[00:18:13] It's a lot.

[00:18:14] So I'm ready for, I'm hoping that eventually

[00:18:17] it kind of settles a little bit.

[00:18:19] Cause right now I feel like I'm on the other extreme

[00:18:21] of where I've been for 34 years of my life.

[00:18:24] And now I'm like, whoa, I just was like slingshot

[00:18:28] into this fucking new naked world.

[00:18:31] And it's a lot.

[00:18:32] Like it's a lot.

[00:18:33] And you are in the baby stage still.

[00:18:35] So give yourself a few years.

[00:18:37] And I think like three, four, five,

[00:18:39] when they like really start to become mobile

[00:18:41] and have a personality and kind of,

[00:18:44] it gets easier in some ways.

[00:18:46] When they're a little more durable.

[00:18:48] Exactly, exactly.

[00:18:50] Those intrusive thoughts are real bitch.

[00:18:52] I feel you on those.

[00:18:53] Those are awful.

[00:18:53] They're horrific.

[00:18:54] Okay, so you come from journalism

[00:18:58] and like a really like media dense world.

[00:19:01] You've talked before about how to communicate

[00:19:04] in today's kind of like craziness with a middle ground

[00:19:09] and to not necessarily be on one side or the other

[00:19:13] in the fight of it all.

[00:19:14] Can you talk to me a little bit about that?

[00:19:16] Yeah, it's interesting because when I say this,

[00:19:19] I never want people to come across

[00:19:21] like I'm encouraging people to not have a stance

[00:19:23] or a viewpoint or stand for something.

[00:19:25] I do believe in standing for something.

[00:19:26] I stand for things that aside from being able

[00:19:30] to sort of journalistically look at things

[00:19:32] that I will fight for that when it comes down to it,

[00:19:34] I believe in.

[00:19:35] But I think the subtlety there is being able to take in

[00:19:40] all of the things we're seeing.

[00:19:41] And now it's not just TV, it's social media,

[00:19:43] it's digital media, it's all the different streamers.

[00:19:46] It's being able to take that all in

[00:19:48] and do the best you can to pick out the facts

[00:19:52] and not let it completely, completely drive you crazy.

[00:19:57] The beauty of today's media landscape

[00:19:58] is that we do have more information.

[00:20:00] And I think it's wonderful that, for example,

[00:20:02] citizen journalism is becoming a thing.

[00:20:04] And you see all these people with their own sub stack

[00:20:07] accounts and they're covering important cases

[00:20:10] like jury trials and it's wonderful,

[00:20:13] but it's that much more information.

[00:20:14] So you have to really have an understanding with,

[00:20:17] it's kind of like what you said with motherhood

[00:20:19] to you have to have an understanding of yourself,

[00:20:21] what you're able to take in, put the cap on,

[00:20:23] put it away for a while and then process and come back.

[00:20:27] Remaining untriggered is like a constant exercise

[00:20:31] and deliberate exposure to things, right?

[00:20:34] And then also shutting off the valve

[00:20:36] and kind of finding your sweet spot

[00:20:37] because it is, it's easy to look at anything today

[00:20:41] and really feel strongly.

[00:20:43] Especially with social media.

[00:20:46] Yeah, I mean, it's so in your face.

[00:20:48] There's so much of it.

[00:20:50] I, for one, people might think this is fucking crazy.

[00:20:52] I don't watch the news and like,

[00:20:54] I get irritated when I go to my mom's house and it's on,

[00:20:57] I will leave the room.

[00:20:58] That being said, who do I rely on

[00:21:00] to tell me important current events?

[00:21:02] My mother.

[00:21:02] Like, I'm like, if something really big

[00:21:05] in the world's going on, someone will tell me.

[00:21:07] But like, I just refuse to watch the news

[00:21:09] because I feel like it's packed with so much negativity.

[00:21:13] Like, so few news stories are like these like,

[00:21:16] really uplifting, amazing things

[00:21:18] that have happened in the world.

[00:21:19] It's focused on like the fear-based things

[00:21:21] that are like happening in the world,

[00:21:23] happening in your area.

[00:21:24] What if this happens?

[00:21:25] Oh my God, be careful about this.

[00:21:27] And then in between the news,

[00:21:29] it's like all these fucking pharmaceutical commercials

[00:21:31] that are like, you're gonna be sick

[00:21:33] or you're gonna deal with this.

[00:21:34] And like, it's just,

[00:21:36] it's so much subconscious subliminal programming

[00:21:39] that we're not even realizing we're taking in.

[00:21:41] And that's the same thing on TikTok and on Instagram,

[00:21:44] when you're like mindlessly scrolling.

[00:21:47] A couple of weeks ago, I've been trying to stay off

[00:21:49] at least the consuming part.

[00:21:52] Like my job is very much so on to be on social media,

[00:21:55] but I've been trying to stay off the consuming part of it.

[00:21:57] But a couple of weeks ago,

[00:21:58] I was scrolling TikTok aimlessly,

[00:22:01] like before going to sleep in bed in the dark.

[00:22:03] And there was this horrific video

[00:22:06] that I like don't even wanna like go fully into it,

[00:22:09] but it was more or less a jaguar or mountain cat

[00:22:14] coming into a house and like attacking a pet.

[00:22:18] And so graphic, so horrific.

[00:22:21] I have like since multiple times,

[00:22:23] like had like intrusive visions of this video in my head.

[00:22:27] And I'm like, what the fuck was that doing on the internet,

[00:22:30] on an app where people are supposed to be scrolling

[00:22:32] and they're supposed to like consume information

[00:22:34] or funny videos or like learn stuff.

[00:22:36] Like what the fuck?

[00:22:38] And I'm an adult woman.

[00:22:39] And if I saw that and was so deeply affected by it,

[00:22:42] like what are kids and younger people doing

[00:22:45] when they're seeing jarring videos

[00:22:47] and why is it allowed on platforms like that?

[00:22:50] So it's so important to be able to monitor it

[00:22:54] and to be able to, like you said, stay on triggered by it,

[00:22:56] but it's so difficult.

[00:22:58] Yeah, to me, it just comes down to even something

[00:23:01] as simple as like setting a time limit.

[00:23:03] So if you know that's your time to scroll,

[00:23:04] like literally set a timer on your phone

[00:23:05] and be like, okay, I'm done.

[00:23:06] I don't care if I'm in the middle

[00:23:07] of the most interesting video

[00:23:09] and when that timer goes off,

[00:23:11] you have to be deliberate with your boundaries

[00:23:13] because nobody else will be.

[00:23:15] And technology companies have shown us time and time again

[00:23:18] that their priority and this is,

[00:23:22] they're entitled to this, is to make money, right?

[00:23:24] And we have to be,

[00:23:25] even so much as how social media impacts young girls

[00:23:29] and young boys, like I've interviewed countless experts

[00:23:32] and everybody is calling for regulation this and fix this

[00:23:36] and ask the tech companies that, no, they're not going to.

[00:23:38] And on top of that,

[00:23:40] there are some sort of constitutional concerns

[00:23:42] with regulating speech on any platform, right?

[00:23:45] Like there's some like legitimate concerns

[00:23:48] that I have about that,

[00:23:49] but that's not to say it's not shitty and awful,

[00:23:52] but it also puts the onus on us as individuals

[00:23:54] to monitor our boundaries and to raise kids.

[00:23:58] We can't take the technology away from them.

[00:23:59] We have to have them show up as more educated individuals

[00:24:03] when they log on.

[00:24:03] So now we as parents have to say,

[00:24:05] okay, hon, when you're on there,

[00:24:06] I just want you to know

[00:24:08] that's not what real women look like.

[00:24:10] You know they have filters on

[00:24:11] and you do not need to take your idea

[00:24:13] of what a woman should look like

[00:24:15] based on what you're seeing.

[00:24:16] You might see disturbing.

[00:24:17] We have to say all of these things.

[00:24:19] We have to prepare ourselves

[00:24:20] because the companies responsible for that content

[00:24:22] aren't going to do it for us and it sucks.

[00:24:24] And I hate that.

[00:24:25] I hate it so bad because you would like to think

[00:24:28] that there's some modicum of responsibility

[00:24:31] or concern on the part of some of these companies

[00:24:34] pushing these algorithms, but there's not.

[00:24:36] And you should always, that's an in-house job.

[00:24:38] Just like your happiness is an inside job,

[00:24:40] like your happiness as it relates to media is an inside job

[00:24:43] and you just have to really, really be deliberate with it

[00:24:47] because it's scary.

[00:24:48] Yeah, it's like the lesser evil of saying,

[00:24:51] well, you have to teach your kids

[00:24:53] how to protect themselves at schools

[00:24:55] because clearly our country isn't going to do anything

[00:24:58] with all of the shootings that are happening.

[00:25:00] Like I'm telling you when my child turns four or five,

[00:25:03] there is a very probable chance I will just be like,

[00:25:05] I'm out, we're going to Italy, bye.

[00:25:09] It's wild to me because there's so many different things

[00:25:13] that you are now responsible for instilling on yourself,

[00:25:18] on this young human.

[00:25:20] It's wild to me.

[00:25:22] It's like one more thing

[00:25:23] as if we didn't have enough to worry about.

[00:25:25] It sucks because all of the traditional concerns

[00:25:27] of parenting are still there too, right?

[00:25:28] Right, right.

[00:25:29] Like bullying, right?

[00:25:30] And like having them eat right and having them be healthy

[00:25:33] and then you add on technology and media

[00:25:36] and it's like, oh, it's like a whole new beast.

[00:25:38] Yeah.

[00:25:39] It sucks.

[00:25:39] It's like, yeah, it's a real concern

[00:25:42] as a parent too, for sure.

[00:25:52] I've been trying really hard recently to check myself

[00:25:57] and look at other people's perspectives

[00:26:00] as I go through life.

[00:26:02] I have a stepdaughter, so we co-parent obviously

[00:26:05] with my husband's ex who is wonderful in a lot of ways

[00:26:09] and we're very lucky with our situation

[00:26:11] but there will always be things that people bump heads on.

[00:26:14] So I've been really trying in like that perspective

[00:26:18] in situations with my mom

[00:26:20] where there's like a generational gap in way of thinking,

[00:26:24] really trying to stop

[00:26:25] and like put myself in the other person's shoes

[00:26:28] and be like, if I was that person,

[00:26:32] how would I be reacting?

[00:26:33] What would be like, what's valid about how they're feeling?

[00:26:37] How would I relate to that?

[00:26:38] And I know you talk a lot about the full spectrum

[00:26:42] of perspectives and how to approach issues

[00:26:44] in a really authentic and empathetic way.

[00:26:48] Can you talk to me a little bit about that?

[00:26:49] Yeah, I think the practice of being a journalist

[00:26:51] has sort of always forced me

[00:26:53] into looking at both sides of an issue

[00:26:55] and that's just sort of the default mode

[00:26:57] that I have as a person.

[00:26:58] I joke that like, I'm a Libra

[00:27:00] and I'm like the most Libra of Libras.

[00:27:02] I'm like, I really not only can see

[00:27:04] but I am interested in other people's opinions.

[00:27:06] When I hear someone who doesn't agree with me,

[00:27:08] it's like a full on conversation.

[00:27:09] Like tell me why?

[00:27:11] What is the experience that led you to this?

[00:27:12] And like, would you ever,

[00:27:14] like, you know, I love things that aren't the same.

[00:27:17] I love surrounding myself with people

[00:27:19] who don't echo my beliefs necessarily.

[00:27:22] You know, again, I recognize

[00:27:24] that this isn't everyone's true nature

[00:27:26] but especially in this world

[00:27:28] and what we were just saying

[00:27:29] in regards to media coverage too,

[00:27:31] it really behooves us to have a little bit of curiosity

[00:27:35] about what seems like an opposing viewpoint.

[00:27:38] Because even if you're not gonna drag the person

[00:27:40] to your side of an issue, if that's not your fault,

[00:27:42] I do think, and this is a little pie in the sky,

[00:27:45] like super optimist of me,

[00:27:47] but I do think our world is a little better

[00:27:49] when we go through the exercise

[00:27:52] of attempting to understand.

[00:27:53] When we go through the exercise

[00:27:54] of finding the common points

[00:27:56] and there will always be a common point

[00:27:58] regardless of how divisive an issue is.

[00:28:03] But even going through the practice of seeking out

[00:28:06] and being curious about another person's beliefs

[00:28:09] will immediately make you a little softer,

[00:28:12] a little more desirous to meet in the middle.

[00:28:16] I mean, you know, I think it's only a good thing.

[00:28:18] And I know I sound like such a, like I said,

[00:28:20] like a Pollyanna, but I do believe

[00:28:24] that to combat some of the extremism

[00:28:26] that we're seeing in our world,

[00:28:28] politically, culturally, geopolitically,

[00:28:32] that we all need to start looking

[00:28:35] toward the center a little bit more, you know?

[00:28:37] And finding that because I worry about a world

[00:28:40] where we're looking on toward our respective end

[00:28:43] of the spectrum too much.

[00:28:45] As a human, I worry about that.

[00:28:47] No, I completely agree.

[00:28:48] I think as like for a collective consciousness,

[00:28:51] it will only do us good to do that.

[00:28:54] And for people that totally checked out

[00:28:56] in the middle of a lot of really big words,

[00:28:59] this is something you should be doing at home

[00:29:01] with anyone you're in a relationship with,

[00:29:03] your kids, your parents, your significant other,

[00:29:07] your coworkers, like any person that is in your life

[00:29:10] when you have opposing viewpoints,

[00:29:13] if you can try and walk in their shoes

[00:29:16] and put yourself in that situation

[00:29:18] and find those common grounds,

[00:29:19] even if you're very clear that like they're fucking wrong

[00:29:22] and you're fucking right,

[00:29:23] it's going to better the outcome for you,

[00:29:28] especially in a relationship, like big time.

[00:29:32] Yeah, and it lends itself to a happier you too.

[00:29:36] I mean, you know, like, you know,

[00:29:37] they always say like focus on the good,

[00:29:39] like it allows you to thrive in relationships better

[00:29:41] when you can find that nugget, right?

[00:29:44] You have all the people that say like,

[00:29:46] oh, you know my crazy whatever relative

[00:29:48] who watches Fox News or my crazy relative

[00:29:49] who watches MSNBC, like sit down with your crazy aunt

[00:29:53] and be like, like what is it about,

[00:29:55] I don't know, Tucker Carlson

[00:29:57] or what is it about Rachel Maddow that you really like?

[00:29:59] Like help me feel you, like help me help you.

[00:30:02] I mean, you know, it's again,

[00:30:04] you don't have to walk away from any of these conversations

[00:30:06] a changed person and it doesn't take away

[00:30:08] from your integrity standing for an issue

[00:30:10] that you believe in.

[00:30:11] I believe very strongly in issues

[00:30:13] and have interviewed people over the course of my career

[00:30:16] who were in direct opposition to what I believe

[00:30:19] and you know what I walked away from

[00:30:20] after I interviewed them was a sense of,

[00:30:22] you know what, still don't agree, but they're human.

[00:30:25] They come by this belief honestly.

[00:30:27] And if I can, even for selfishly my own reasons

[00:30:32] I can exist in their realm without feeling itchy

[00:30:35] and angry and just wanna, then I'm better for it.

[00:30:38] And I'm a better person because I'm not ready

[00:30:40] to just pounce and jump when I see or hear someone

[00:30:44] who's different from me

[00:30:45] and it serves the individual in the end too.

[00:30:48] Totally, and I think it's about coming to the table

[00:30:51] from an untriggered place.

[00:30:53] Like I say all the time, like if my ex-husband,

[00:30:56] whatever sit down and have coffee with me

[00:30:58] I'd be like, let's go.

[00:31:00] Like, please tell me what the fuck happened in your brain.

[00:31:05] Like, let me in on your end of all the shit that went down

[00:31:09] out of pure curiosity because I'm so removed

[00:31:14] from like the emotional trigger of it.

[00:31:17] Like, it's purely like, feels like it didn't even happen

[00:31:20] to me in this lifetime and it's more about like,

[00:31:23] it feels like I'm watching a movie

[00:31:25] and it's like, let me get the perspective

[00:31:27] of the other character at this point.

[00:31:29] But so if you can come to it from a place of not wanting

[00:31:34] to fix or change their opinion to not like hoping

[00:31:39] to like bring them to the other side,

[00:31:41] it allows you to show up and not be as triggered

[00:31:46] by what they might potentially say.

[00:31:49] Exactly, yeah, I actually had an interesting conversation

[00:31:52] with a second amendment advocate

[00:31:54] and you know, what we were just talking about.

[00:31:55] It's hard as a parent to not have strong feelings

[00:31:57] on gun safety when you're sending your child

[00:31:59] into the world every day.

[00:32:00] And you know, did I walk away like a gun tooting,

[00:32:05] you know, girl after like, oh, let's make it by ARF.

[00:32:07] No, I didn't, but it did help me understand

[00:32:10] why he thought the way,

[00:32:11] and he introduced into the argument

[00:32:13] some sort of intricacies about, you know,

[00:32:15] freedoms that we wanna preserve

[00:32:17] and things that I really hadn't thought of before.

[00:32:19] Now, will it change how I vote for a representative

[00:32:22] who sort of aligns with my beliefs versus his?

[00:32:24] Maybe not, but I mean, it is possible to see

[00:32:28] both sides of an issue and to truly not only see it

[00:32:31] but understand why, just like you said,

[00:32:32] they might feel that way.

[00:32:34] And I got some, that was one of the topics

[00:32:35] that I got some really nasty comments

[00:32:37] on social media about.

[00:32:38] I mean, everything that we've talked about,

[00:32:40] abortion rights, second amendment,

[00:32:42] I've just covered the Middle East.

[00:32:43] So I hate like the biggest of big topics, climate change.

[00:32:46] Like I just dive right in.

[00:32:47] And what it has shown me is that people are really,

[00:32:50] they're actually willing to engage in an opposing opinion.

[00:32:54] And that encourages me in a way

[00:32:56] that hopefully the polarization we're seeing

[00:33:00] can maybe reverse itself a little bit.

[00:33:01] And there can be more of a meeting of the minds

[00:33:05] down the line, especially politically speaking.

[00:33:07] Talk to me about what you refer to as the echo chamber

[00:33:11] and how to get outside of it.

[00:33:13] Yeah, so I mean, the echo chamber like broadly is right.

[00:33:16] It's our friends and our family

[00:33:17] that we surround ourselves with or people online too.

[00:33:20] That's a big part of it.

[00:33:21] That echo our beliefs that prop us up and say,

[00:33:24] yeah, stop my God, Gabrielle.

[00:33:25] Yes, girl, you're right, dude.

[00:33:27] I've been there before.

[00:33:27] Yes, a hundred percent.

[00:33:29] The hundo's under there and the little fist bumps.

[00:33:31] And that's beautiful.

[00:33:33] We want that.

[00:33:34] We want that sense of community.

[00:33:35] And I love that.

[00:33:36] And I'm a sucker for a dopamine in it too.

[00:33:39] So you put a little easy bait out there

[00:33:40] and like, woo, somebody loves me today.

[00:33:42] But the echo chamber is that.

[00:33:45] It's what we surround ourselves with physically

[00:33:47] and digitally that sort of solidifies our points of view.

[00:33:50] Getting outside of it is deliberately placing yourself

[00:33:54] in situations where you are not of the majority belief,

[00:33:58] opinion, look or culture, anything.

[00:34:02] Like deliberately be like recognizing

[00:34:04] that there are many ways to live life.

[00:34:07] And maybe it's time to be in the opposing shoes

[00:34:13] for a moment and understand for nothing else,

[00:34:16] but the goal of coming out a more feeling,

[00:34:18] empathetic, understanding person.

[00:34:21] And I had my first experience with that at college.

[00:34:25] I went to Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh,

[00:34:27] which is where I'm from.

[00:34:28] And for the first time I was surrounded by people who,

[00:34:31] I mean, when I say lived totally different lives than me.

[00:34:35] And every way possible, ambassadors children and royal,

[00:34:38] I mean like rich and famous people's children

[00:34:43] and people from different parts of the world

[00:34:45] with religions that I had never been exposed to.

[00:34:48] I was on campus for 9-11 and I got to engage

[00:34:52] with Middle Eastern students who were like,

[00:34:53] hey, let us talk about why we think that,

[00:34:57] I mean like really hard stuff.

[00:34:58] Like no American wants to be in a conversation

[00:35:03] and someone say, well, let me just tell you about like why,

[00:35:06] and I'm not endorsing this.

[00:35:07] So just let me make that clear.

[00:35:08] Why America had this coming?

[00:35:10] I'm like, holy fuck, what?

[00:35:12] Now do I agree with that?

[00:35:13] No, I don't.

[00:35:14] But to hear that there was an opposed, like what?

[00:35:17] I'm like the whole, as an American,

[00:35:20] I'm like the whole world revolves around America.

[00:35:22] It's just, it was shocking.

[00:35:24] It really was.

[00:35:24] And that doesn't represent a majority opinion,

[00:35:27] but these were conversations that were happening.

[00:35:29] And I think I was really,

[00:35:30] that part of me was really activated

[00:35:32] in that particular time of my life.

[00:35:33] And not being, there weren't a lot of just regular

[00:35:37] middle-class white Italian Catholic girls walking around.

[00:35:41] I mean, it's just like, I was a minority

[00:35:43] for the first time in my life.

[00:35:43] And I'm like, this is great to not,

[00:35:46] not a true minority in every sense,

[00:35:48] but like my opinions and my beliefs were challenged

[00:35:51] in a lot of ways.

[00:35:52] And it was a really, like an experience of growth.

[00:35:55] And like that's the kind of stuff,

[00:35:57] when people go to college,

[00:35:58] they sometimes like apply where their friends go.

[00:36:01] And I want to say to every person,

[00:36:03] like just go somewhere else, find new people.

[00:36:06] You know, like join a different club

[00:36:08] or you need to get out.

[00:36:10] Even if it's for a short period of your life.

[00:36:12] Life isn't always about comfort,

[00:36:14] physical comfort, intellectual comfort.

[00:36:15] We need out.

[00:36:16] We need out of our little soft, cozy nooks

[00:36:21] of the world sometimes.

[00:36:22] Yep. 100% agree with that.

[00:36:24] Oh, so good.

[00:36:26] Girl, this has been so wonderful.

[00:36:27] Thank you for being here.

[00:36:28] Thank you for all of your incredible value

[00:36:31] that you so clearly bring to the world.

[00:36:33] Can you tell everybody where they can find you

[00:36:36] to come oppose your views online

[00:36:37] and where the podcast is at and all the good stuff?

[00:36:40] I'm sweating.

[00:36:41] Yes, I'm in a full body sweat right now.

[00:36:43] You can find the podcast anywhere you get your podcasts.

[00:36:46] It's called We Gotta Talk.

[00:36:47] It's an issues based podcast where we like to dig deep.

[00:36:51] And on Instagram, I'm at sundayabada,

[00:36:53] which is S-O-N-N-I-A-B-A-T-T-A.

[00:36:55] Come be friendly with me.

[00:36:56] We always say keep it respectful in comments,

[00:36:59] but yeah, that's where I am on TikTok, Instagram, all of it.

[00:37:02] Sunny Abada.

[00:37:03] Love it.

[00:37:04] Thank you so much for being here.

[00:37:05] This is great.

[00:37:06] Thank you so much for this.

[00:37:07] I appreciate it.

[00:37:13] I wanna thank Sunny so much for coming on.

[00:37:15] I had so much fun diving into this episode with her.

[00:37:19] I hope you guys are enjoying this season of FML Talk.

[00:37:25] I have been really focused on bringing on some experts

[00:37:31] and fun guests that are really going to be able

[00:37:35] to either offer you something valuable

[00:37:38] or have a fun, lighthearted and interesting conversation.

[00:37:42] I hope you guys are enjoying this season

[00:37:44] just as much as I am.

[00:37:45] I love you.

[00:37:46] I will see you all next week.

[00:37:53] All right, FMLers, if you don't want to miss an episode,

[00:37:56] make sure to follow on your favorite podcast app.

[00:37:59] And if you're loving the show,

[00:38:01] drop us a five-star rating and leave a review.

[00:38:04] You can keep up with me on Instagram at Gabrielle Stone

[00:38:07] or the podcast page at FML Talk Podcast.

[00:38:11] For all the merch and books signed personally by me,

[00:38:14] you can shop the FML line on eatpreyfml.com.

[00:38:18] And as always, have a fucking self-love cocktail on me.

[00:38:23] Cheers.

[00:38:33] This podcast has been brought to you by Podcast Nation.