Spielberg's Historical Period Drama Quadrilogy

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[00:00:12] Once again, no shortage of just key to Spielberg Retrospects in these mini overviews for this themed week. And we figured, hey, let's look at historical period dramas. It's basically a non-official quadrilogy, if you will. The Color Purple, Amistad, Lincoln and War Horse.

[00:00:30] I thought of naming it so many other things because it did go into details on Civil War and slavery, but I figured I'd loop them all together because a lot of their themes did cross with one another. And I would hate to just put it in one. And again, Spielberg is always working, so it's hard to come up with just a trilogy because he does reexamine so many of his same material, even in his non-family or adventure related movies.

[00:00:56] So enjoy, guys, as we examine just historical biopics. We missed. We loaded it. We edited it. Sometimes we get so deep into conversation that we have separate segments worthy of their own place in the sun.

[00:01:29] Here is a reshuffled mini episode.

[00:01:31] Memory of some movies lasts a lifetime. The Color Purple. Rated PG-13.

[00:02:11] Now playing at a theater near you. Color Purple, it did take me years to rewatch because it was just so depressing. It's such heavy material, you know. Yeah, same here. I was glad I did. I'm all like I'm going to have to fight. Sorry to have the Oprah connection there. But yeah, you've never seen Danny Glover be such a, you know, vicious villain. That almost makes me wonder if Django Unchained, that's what Sam Jackson character basically is.

[00:02:41] He basically decides to treat his entire race like garbage. But yeah, no, it's cool that he's made movies for every kind of audience. Worth mentioning The Color Purple. The Fishburn. I always forget that he's in that. But yeah, he's in The Jazz Club as one of the friends. And I mean, small role, but that was such a significant movie that it, again, it's another one where you could see his career was on the upward trajectory. Totally. Mm-hmm.

[00:03:10] Color Purple was like considered a good movie in the industry. But again, he still got shit for it when they first did it. It was like, no, no, stay in your lane, man. Stay in your lane. That was a big thing. I remember that there were so many in the black community who in the beginning were like, wow, why is Spielberg directing this? And then when Spielberg gets snubbed at the Academy Awards, why wasn't Spielberg considered for an Academy Award? You can't have it both ways, guys.

[00:03:38] Because it's like they wanted to react to it all at once instead of compress it, you know, just take a minute. Like when I see something intense, there's no way I have any coherent concepts. Like I saw Daniel Day-Lewis's new movie for instance. I personally liked it. Other people might hate it. But I knew I was going to have to unwind and unpack this after I was done absorbing it. There's no way I can just think rawly and just give you an idea.

[00:04:07] It's like, no, no, no, no. See, I got to decompress, reprocess this in my head about what I've just seen. And then when I watch it and do my review. So 40 minutes when I get back home, I will have an answer for you guys. But I also know that this might be a triggering subject. It is, even though it's just a dialogue based movie. The images it paints are visual. But yeah, that's kind of what he did with Color Purple. Everyone wanted to slug him. And then at the same time, be angry.

[00:04:37] He wasn't given any kind of accolade. It's like, well, it's almost like when you get these actors who get thanks years later and they're like, thanks. But where were you when I needed you? It's like, why does it be like it's slightly never rose to fame. Oh, yeah. Can you that would be terrible. There's an alternate reality where no one sees do the right thing. Nothing. I know his debut. Or even his debut. He's like, what?

[00:05:07] No one has anything to say whatsoever. What's going on here? And I love him because he looks so basic as hell. And it's so funny. He'll self-cast himself just like Stephen King does. And this is why I love him. So basic. If you don't know who they are, you are in for such a treat.

[00:05:32] If you do know the small characters or just little cameos here and there, if you know their entire filmography and bookography like Stephen King, you know what their real range is capable of. Correct. But just it's insane. It's so funny. I love that shit. I like when directors put themselves in a film. They're naked soul. I don't like. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:01] But it's always fun, though. It's never one of those deals where it's super serious with like with Stephen King. Like we should we got to do Stephen King versus Spike Lee podcast. Seriously, it's the best. We do have episodes on both of them coming soon. But yes, I know what you mean, though. And that's why I will always respect Spielberg with every book he adapts. He finds the stuff that works in every novel.

[00:06:27] I don't see anyone complaining about the stuff that didn't work in the Jaws novel, you know? And so it's just so funny how you want some of the highlights of the novel to be in like an adaptation, but you also don't want it to be every single bit like that. And I see other people doing that. It's like, no, that doesn't work. Just like some stuff. Twilight's a prime example. Yeah. I got to say, though, like so since we're going through like some deep cuts for the Spielberg series that will be airing later. What's your guys take on The Color Purple?

[00:06:56] Oh, it's a very hard to watch movie. It's been a long time since I've seen that. Yeah. But it is also objectively well made movie. But it's just so interesting how he had the blessing of a black audience, even though people were still criticizing. It's kind of whitewashed. It's like, well, he's trying to stick to the history books. So I don't I don't I don't know what else he can do unless you just are only comfortable with a black director. Yeah.

[00:07:22] It seems to be one of those few people that can sort of transcend that, that, you know, you would have thought that any other any other white director probably would have got some flack for that. But there's something about Spielberg is just and I think as well is the casting of Oprah Winfrey was was fascinating as well. Yes. You know, she wasn't an actress really. I don't know. Right. But she kind of still left that go. But she's still a powerful producer now.

[00:07:50] So it's just interesting. I think I think Dave, I think we watched it in school. I'm sure I'm sure we did this for our GCSE English, you know, the colour purple of that. Yeah, it does ring a bell about. Yeah. And that would have been kind of around the right time as well. I don't know if you've seen have you seen that clip of Elizabeth Banks presenting an award and she kind of calls out Spielberg and says he doesn't have female leads and literally someone shouts from the audience. The colour purple.

[00:08:19] She's like, she obviously looks a little bit like Corey about when she realizes that, like, you know, literally, you know, it was on Oscar winning film, you know, like the cast. I haven't seen that, but it doesn't surprise me. It's cringe. It's cringewary. A lot of people like to get. I could never be jealous about Steven, but it just seems like a lot of people just aren't used to kind of organic success is like he's just so patient with everybody.

[00:08:49] He's only not gotten along with a few different actors, but instead of just kissing their ass or getting an argument, he just makes use of time, you know? Well, one of which apparently is Ben Affleck, isn't he? But, you know, do you know the reason for this? I've seen. Oh, I've heard that story. Yeah, but. So. Yeah. Apparently Ben Affleck pushed Spielberg's son in the pool, didn't he? And Spielberg, they were going to cast him. There was something that cast and director wanted him in and Spielberg was kind of like, no, I don't like that guy.

[00:09:19] He's never, he's never got over the fact that this, this kind of happened. And obviously. Well, and. Affleck's gone on to win Oscars himself and stuff. And he's. That's just it. Everyone was immature at some time or another. And he was often pretty good at telling him, hey, you fuck around. I'm going to just replace you. I have no problem doing it. And trust me, I will. So it is just so funny how. But he's not a shit talker. That's the thing. Like, he's not a smack talker. That's the big difference between some of these other guys we like who.

[00:09:49] Like. If William Friedkin or Brian DePolman didn't like someone, he'd let you know. And it's like, oh, hey. As we've seen with Tarantino recently. Tarantino can't help himself. I don't know what this thing he's got against Paul Dano at the moment. I think he just. He's always had hot takes on what he considers good movies. And it's so funny, though. Spielberg apparently goes hunting like every Thanksgiving for Quill with Tarantino. So you're just like. That's just it, too.

[00:10:18] Like, he hangs out with all kinds of filmmakers who you're like, really? Those guys are pretty edgy and violent. But that's just it, too. Like, Stephen can push the envelope. Like, he doesn't stick to just PG or PG-13 or R. He's just like whatever he wants to make. I've got a little fact about that. So. Yes. Because I've got a couple of facts on all the topics you did.

[00:10:38] Apparently, Stephen Spielberg was the one who suggested to the president of the MPAA at the time to introduce the PG-13 rating. Because a couple of his films had sort of bounced in between ratings. He was tired of having to play politics. He's like, well, we need something in between. Because there's a lot of stuff that's not. Again, it's not gritty enough to be R. It's not a PG. But it's not for kids. So it can't bring PG. So, yeah. I mean. I was like.

[00:11:08] That's interesting. But. There's movies he's done where people seem to think, oh, it's more gruesome than it is. Sometimes there would be an R rating on Poltergeist. I'm like, it's PG. But MGM accidentally put an R rating on the DVD and didn't recall it back. But it's so funny. I would ask to watch Minority Report growing up and everyone thought, oh, it's rated R. I'm like, it's gritty. But it's a 13. It would be R if there was like a few more, you know, coarse language or a bit more blood.

[00:11:36] But it's already pretty gritty as it is. So, yeah. And even movies like that he does that are they don't feel gratuitous. That's the other irony, you know. Temple of Doom is as close to like an hour waiting in the UK. Yeah. Than anything really. Do you know what I mean? It probably was just a PG. That was the year when he was starting the 13. And it's just so funny how that comes out, gets controversy. Then Gremlins comes out. Same deal. It's just like.

[00:12:08] When freedom failed them. When justice deserted them. The charge is murder. Our president has appealed the decision to our Supreme Court. When hope abandoned them, they freed themselves. I will call into the past and beg my ancestors to come and help me. For at this moment, I am the whole reason they have existed at all. A Steven Spielberg film. Amistad. Rated R. December 10th in select theaters. December 12th everywhere.

[00:12:37] So I think that's a good portion. Because Amistad is kind of one of those. It hasn't been seen by many. But at the same time, like it is kind of a little divisive now because it kind of. Spoober gets a lot of the same criticism. And I'm not. This is one you could go one way or the other on where much like color purple, they felt like, hey, a white man should not be telling a black person's story. And I understand that. I remember that argument.

[00:13:04] But yeah, you said you saw this in a history class growing up and it really gave me anxiety because it was really too realistic. Yeah, it was the boat scene with the birth. That fucked me up so bad that I am. Oh, man. Because I had never seen it before. I was excited to see it because it was like, all right, history class. Fuck it. We'll watch it. And it got up to that point. And I just snapped and bawled.

[00:13:33] And one of my classmates was like, why is he fucking crying? And he was pissed off because it got turned off after that happened. He's like, well, stop being such a pussy then. I was like, fuck you. And I had to teach her toot his ass out for that shit. Yeah, I rewatched Amistad after like decades later. All right. It's deep. It's way fucking heavy.

[00:14:00] It's one of those you got to watch when you have a full battery of energy. Yeah, definitely don't watch late at night where you're not ready to pay attention. Yeah, because you got to pay attention to it and full battery energy. And after that, you just need to wind down after watching it because it's really it's it's one of the it's like watching roots on repeat. Yeah.

[00:14:29] And it never ends. It's and it's it's just really heavy to sit through. I remember talking about it the next day. I saw in the theater. I talked about it at work. It said I got the point made. I forget who the who's speaking. Oh, Anthony Hopkins play. Yeah. He played John Quincy Adams. Yeah. Quincy. Oh, yeah. That's the point. The movie was making is bigotry is really anti-American. Right. The idea of America is shit.

[00:14:59] It doesn't. It should. Although there were slaves, though, too. It's a no. Yeah. But well, that was that was a movie that was starting to get to the point where let's get rid of slavery. Then. Yeah. Yeah. I a lot of the criticism that you see for it now is just a lot of people saying he didn't go far enough. And I think this is it. Even Spielberg had his limit. It's just like, yeah, just I'm going to just keep this very basic for such a very dire for a very, very. Sad story.

[00:15:30] I don't want to go more. I'm he already much. You know, this is a year before Private Ryan and much like Schindler's List. He's already decided, hey, you know, I don't have to be limited by the PG or PG 13 rating. I can I can do an R rated drama again. And I still associate Juman Han Zhao a lot with this movie. You know, I'd already seen Gladiators. This was a few years before that. And I was like, yeah, he really got the suffering of this slave down is like, you can call it murder.

[00:16:00] But it doesn't change the fact that he's already in an inhumane circumstance. He had every right to try and escape, you know, slavery. Fun fact about him. He was considered for Kratos for God of War and a God of War film back then. But really? Yeah. Plans fell through. And then another person that was considered for the role was Daniel Craig for James Bond. I'm like, fuck Daniel. He's not good enough for that shit.

[00:16:30] He's just not. Like, I saw it unfold in my head. I'm like, one, he's not muscular enough. Juman's got the range for that kind of role. I mean, there's a reason. He's got the anger. Blood Diamond. And that was another movie. I used to have a professor who thought that movie was racist. And I was like, really? How the fuck is it racist? Literally, it talks about diamonds from zero. Yeah, it was some. That's what I was about to say is like, those were actual 2002 things.

[00:16:59] It's a mixing in Indiana Jones adventure. So you pay attention. Sure. But like he just acted like, I just think of stereotypes. And basically told me to shut up and not question it. So if you don't like the betrayal for whatever reason, I can understand why it might set you off. I think it's interesting that he decided to do something that would be more of a.

[00:17:24] Shall we say this is something I would expect from like an Alan Rudolph or Alan Parker, maybe a Scorsese type. You know what I mean? I expected from Spike Lee, honestly, with right with Martin Scorsese behind them. I am actually surprised that Spike Lee or even Oliver Stone didn't tackle something like this. But the problem is, is that like slave films. Yeah, they're good for the historical aspect.

[00:17:52] But at the same time, they are overdone and overrated. And in this day and age, you'd be hard pressed to find an all black cast that would want to sign on and do that again. Because it gets to it gets to the point where it's oversaturated. And everybody will just say like, oh, yeah, there's a nigga left and right. Oh, it's so good. Like, no, it's a lot worse than that.

[00:18:20] But that's like 12 Years a Slave, I thought was pretty good. But I see that people brutal. But I see so many. They smack talked it after release. It's Oscar bait. It's Oscar bait. I'm like, well, yeah, it is. But I also have no control over what the Academy wants to do. I'm just basing it on its own merit. So, yeah, that's true. I mean, I can understand why then they picked David Franzoni to then headline the script for Gladiator.

[00:18:47] He's already done some other blockbusters like he's done some HBO movies and he'd done Jumping Jack Flash, believe we're not prior to this. Yeah. Elliot, had you seen what was your take on this brutal drama? It's part legal, part historical event. Are we talking about Amistad or Blood Diamond? Oh, sorry. Sorry, Amistad. Yeah. Yeah. We just briefly brought it. Yeah.

[00:19:12] No, just to me, I know it's Spielberg wanting to say that bigotry is not America. I'm sorry. Bigotry is America. You know. Right. But it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't. It shouldn't be. Sure. But as they say, America's original sin is slavery. And this country has been failing to make amends for that for 400 years. Yeah. It goes back to Columbus. So.

[00:19:42] No, that's all a relevant point. He's kind of an unintentional savior. He wants to say something, yet you kind of feel like someone else could step in and say it instead. Right. Yeah. It's Spielberg wanting to try to shoehorn a happy ending in somewhere, you know, everywhere. Like Lincoln. Right. Right. That's a good point. Now, that's a very sound point. And also, John Singleton would make a good film for this, too. Oh, yeah. Yes. Rosewood is so underrated.

[00:20:11] Oh, my goodness. And this is the same year. So. I do kind of wish he, a young John Ridley, or even Antoinette Fuqua could have probably said something like this. They've done other stuff, but unfortunately, they just aren't seen as much as the ones that have the brutal fight scenes. So. It seems like it's. I think Hitler could do it. You know. But I doubt he would. He has the power, but. Yeah. It also doesn't help. Go ahead. He has it now. I'm sorry. He has it now.

[00:20:39] I think the point, all the points that should be made about films like Amistad and Color Purple and others. And I remember when Spike Lee had some real issues with Steven Spielberg making The Color Purple. Yes. I think. I think. Was it? Was it? I could be wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong. No, you're right. But correct me if I'm wrong. Was Spielberg up to do Malcolm X at some point? And even he said, I'm not doing this. Oh, wow. And Spike Lee stepped in and did it. Because it had to be.

[00:21:09] Let's look. There were a lot. I did listen to the What Went Wrong episode. I'm glad he did. Yeah. That would be interesting. Yeah. I mean, it would work. No, no. Norman Jewison. Jewison. Right. So to the point being that. But similar. Yeah. Right. That. Spielberg and Malcolm. Possibly. But at the same time, do you go see The Color Purple if Steven Spielberg doesn't direct it? Is my thing. Oh. Yeah. That's true.

[00:21:38] Do you go see Amistad if Steven Spielberg doesn't direct it? It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of scenario. But to your point. Yeah. It. People act like he's the next best thing. So that's also kind of impossible. That kind of even goes back to why he did Schindler's List in the first place. Scorsese is up for it. And Scorsese is like, I can't, man. I can't. Like, I'm surprised James Cameron wasn't up for that. You know. It would have been up his wheelhouse for sure.

[00:22:07] I'm surprised that he hasn't done any historical movies with how much he loves reading. Oh, Titanic. Yeah. Other than Titanic. I'm glad he's never done that shit. But he's. I mean, Titanic. Avatar. It's like. Sorry. I mean, shit. He's working. He's working on that movie about the Hiroshima bombing, though. I mean. Oh, that's right. Yeah. OK. He saw up in high room and was like, I got an answer to that. I was like, OK.

[00:22:33] Did you see him do the test with Rose and Jack surviving recently? No. He did. He actually sat down. He sat down with a study group and they actually reenacted the door scene from Titanic. And he and he did it scientifically. He saw like that. Jack. I've heard that. Yeah. They both could have been on the door. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:03] I was like, damn, that's funny as hell. Yeah. But he's like roasting himself. Jeez. No. He's just like, oh, Jack could have survived. Yeah. But you don't get that cool scene of. And then it comes back. You know, you know. No, that's true. There's a lot of stuff that makes us wonder. If would we have reacted to it like.

[00:23:30] Then that we do now, because there's so many movies that we don't react to or we find unintentionally outdated now or. Yeah, because they have a trope that was so common in the 80s or the 90s versus now where it's got to be edgy, but not enough to where you offend a lot of people. It's it's very hard to know the raw reaction you're really, truly going to get. And even test screens can be unreliable because they kind of notorious for not telling people. So.

[00:24:00] But yeah, yeah, I know many Spielberg fans who find him overrated to a point, but haven't seen Amistad. And then I see other people who like his Amistad, but they don't revisit it because it is, you know, it's it is so brutal. So it is it is kind of a one time watch. I my only gripe is that the speech by Anthony Hopkins kind of goes on a little long. It's like, OK, made your point. 20 extra minutes. OK, I didn't need that.

[00:24:27] But I'm glad you show the hypocrisy of the kings and queens at the end and some of the other resolution. But like you say, it is kind of a. I just felt like he had to get it out of the system like it was kind of leftovers from color purple to your earlier point. So it's like, yeah, it's like I just need to do one more kind of just political discussion. And. OK, I just he had to address it in some way.

[00:24:55] He he does know how to do over the top blockbusters, but he also doesn't want to keep doing just adaptation after adaptation or play. He definitely likes to challenge himself. I just. Yeah, it's just it's one of those every once in a while it comes on at like two in the morning on TNT. And I'm like, wow, fuck that. Yeah, I don't. I'm going to bed. Fuck that. Yeah, that's not the right. Because like you say, you've got to be fully engaged if you're going to watch. Yeah.

[00:25:24] And it's too heavy for a late night film, honestly, like it's one of those. It's an afternoon. It's a weekend afternoon flick to watch during Black History Month. And I'm like, I'm half black. I enjoy a good drama, but even I get tired of there not being enough access flowing into history. It's always the same tropes.

[00:25:54] It's always let's do a slave film because that's easy to work with. And no, do something different. Be unique. I don't give a fuck who directs it, writes it, produces it. As long as it's coherent and it delivers the message and it's iconic and it's a trailblazer that redefines black history. Good. Work it. But if it's just some bullshit deal, no, thank you.

[00:26:21] And they need to find the right producers because so often they are trying to see who's so-and-so's name and what they're worth overseas. And it's like, no, no, don't worry about the Chinese dollars. Let's worry about. I would like Peter Jackson to a black film. He's got the gumption for it. So does Del Toro. I don't care. I want to see somebody that actually comes out on top and makes it worth watching and memorable.

[00:26:48] Not Oscar bait, not Academy Award bait. None of that. Just a plain excellent movie. Yeah. Something that's so underground. Breakfast Club budget. And then it blows the fuck up because it was so good. And people are still talking about it. Natural word of mouth. Yes. Yes. Oh, my God. I saw a shocking scene from it on TikTok. I better see that. I'm like, well, it's more. That's what drew me to watch.

[00:27:17] That's what drew me to watch Cuties after that fucking dumb twerk dance. And I'm like, OK, there's more to this movie than just that bullshit. And then that's work scene. I had to do that for other pals. I saw the substance recently and same thing. I'm like, guys, the gross stuff is to get you to pay attention. That's not the core of the movie that you're making out to be in that TikTok video. It's just like dance. Yeah. The dance scene itself is actually partly based on one of Michael Jackson's dances.

[00:27:47] Actually, I forget which one it was, but it was on the dance off series that was on TV. And oh, who the hell did it might have been Janet Jackson. And yeah, Joseph Gordon Lovett was doing it and I watched him do it. I was like, oh, shit, that's from Cuties. There you go. So to Elliot's earlier point, I think this could only exist in the 90s because everyone had a tolerance for doing historical dramas.

[00:28:14] In the 90s, one of those decades that just defined everything. Pretty much. It's literally like you're going to have a free hour extended VHS tape. Yeah. Two parts that you rent from your library. You're going to have everyone had the patience still kind of the 70s mentality of I can do a free hour epic. It's going to be an all star cast. And again, it seems like Nolan has some of that. Del Toro. And Nolan could do it, too.

[00:28:41] Some of those other guys, definitely people are going to see everything they have to do, even if they don't think it's good, just because they have that vision to their name. So, yeah. Some of it's still there. It just seems like no one knows how to unlock that for all kinds of other crowds. Yeah, because today's crowd is more phone-based. They're never going to survive a three-hour flick.

[00:29:09] Well, politics have gotten so ugly. I mean, they've always been ugly, but now it's the point where it's hard to... When a movie comes out, I can't tell who's legit trolling versus who is never going to like this anyway. It's a lot to unpack. And just to take a year before you get a legit IMDb rating, now it seems to take maybe two extra years just to decipher all the rubbish.

[00:29:36] Like, I'll see two sentences of someone saying, this is awful, one out of ten. I'm like, but why? Yeah. Why? That's why I don't get online for that shit. Like, me, my method, because I don't need all the bullshit. I watch the trailer, I look at the posters, and I go by that, and I wait for it to come out, and then I go watch it. And I make my own assumptions and shouldn't do my own review. Yeah. And everybody else is like, ah, I need Rotten Tomatoes to tell me.

[00:30:06] I need Twitter to tell me. I need whatever social media platform is the best. TikTok said it was amazing. It's so good. You're right. And I'm like, did you ever really go fucking see it, or are you just going to sit on your ass and bitch? Yep. And I get so tired of it. It's so dumb. And the fact that after, I love how Will Smith's slap at the Oscars was such a catalyst moment.

[00:30:37] Because it's funny that after he gets banned for a decade, so he ain't going to be there 20 days. Then you find out nobody at the fucking academies ever watched the films that they voted for to win. So now everybody's required to watch every film that comes out. You would have thought that would have been in the contract, right? You know, for real. You've got to spell it out. Yeah.

[00:31:05] Which tells me every film decades before that was supposed to win, didn't win, was the real winner versus who got picked. I'm like, that's fucking gorgeous. Like the fucking irony of that. Like, how can you be on a fucking committee of movie voting and not even watch the damn thing and just vote based on who's in it? That's pathetic. That's like favoritism at its best. Well, it's not. It's not just that.

[00:31:32] Like, it's also just like, do you just not want to do the work? How do you know your team? I know. It's like if you're blindly supporting a sports team. I'm not trying to get political on that necessarily, but it's like you got to know when your team's not fully ironed out, when it needs some reconstructor, when it needs to get rid of some players who just aren't up to the task.

[00:31:54] Like if I if you're going into work and your supervisor is not doing their job or someone else is slacking, do you just let them continue to get the rest of you in trouble? Or do you just finally go to the bus saying, please have a word with he or she? She's just she's just not. She's here, but she's mentally she's not. She's she's in pretend land. It's like fascinating.

[00:32:18] And yeah, it's I just I also just think they need to actually they used to do some in studio promos. Now they hire people to promote your movie. And Spielberg has always found ways to adapt time and again. But I just wish they would just have people make their own trailer. So there's no way that the marketing can label something or make.

[00:32:45] That's why I respect James Cameron, because he did the same thing when I was watching behind the scenes. I think it was for Avatar or I think it was a way of water or something or no, it was the first Avatar. He talked to the cast and crew and it was such a good video. I really liked it. And I actually bought the 4K of it off Amazon because I wanted it so bad because it's the extended cut.

[00:33:13] And he had a good talk with the cast and crew and everybody involved. It was really nice. And I remember when way water was announced and it was like the final two months before it came out. Fox actually told him they were like, can you cut a little bit more? He's like, fuck you. And told me. I'm like, perfect. That's what James does. And Kurt Sutter did the same shit with Sons of Anarchy. It's similar.

[00:33:42] And it is so funny how we almost had a James Cameron Jurassic Park, but Spielberg beat him by like literally an hour on that phone. So they have definitely run into that realm of. Would it could have, but didn't, you know, like almost the same properties because they were smart. But. Like James did the smart thing to do with Avatar. He waited, he waited 13 years for the technology to catch up.

[00:34:11] And then what he couldn't put in the film, he put in the comics. Yes. Like this is, this is the, when Avatar finishes up completely, it's going to be so much better than any other franchise. And I know, and people are really, no, it won't be. Yeah, well, because it'll have a full scope of Pandora versus just one fucking location. Like that's because they can't get away from Tatooine. That's how I was with Dune.

[00:34:41] I'm like, wait for all three chapters to be out. Then I'll give you my opinion right now. We're not an incomplete opinion. I like some of what I've seen, but the whole story isn't done by the same thing with Lord of the Rings. Can you imagine if they did Fellowship and the rest of it never came out? You'd be like, there's half of a, there's one third of an interesting movie in there, but it's not complete. And I'm this way with what's coming out soon. Not Lord of the Rings. Kevin Costner's Horizon.

[00:35:10] We probably won't ever get those next three parts to plan. But see, to be fair, regardless of whether you didn't like it, I'm just saying it's not a complete story. I can't judge it until more of it comes out. So I'm just like, I'm just going to hold my breath because I know we got in some legal troubles over other dumb, easily. And the real, the real problem with movies now, it's also it's COVID. We're still dealing with post-COVID, even though it's five years later.

[00:35:39] It's still post-COVID. Yep. And the fallout from the WGA strikes and possibly the upcoming strikes again because of the AI actors, Tilly Norwood, which is just so damn funny to me. Showing that they did not learn at all from the last strike. Yeah. It's funny. It's really funny. And everybody's like, oh, we're not going to adapt to AI in our films. I think yes, you will. When the price is right, you will adapt it. You can bullshit now. But when that price is right, you will adapt it.

[00:36:10] But we shouldn't. But someone likely will. Okay. I get it. I understand. No, I understand. Yeah. Who wants this wonderful creature? He's something else that one. How are we going to pull anything with that? Don't worry, Mom. I'll raise him. I knew when I first saw you that you'd be the one who'd save us.

[00:36:39] The war is taking everything. Your father's done what he had to do. I'll say goodbye. Wherever you are, I will find you. And I will bring you home. There he is. Warhorse. He never gave up. And he does that for us. Warhorse. Rated PG-13. Christmas Day. I wasn't a fan of that one. I thought, I forget what the problem was.

[00:37:07] I just thought it was too contractual. Oh, no. That's fine. I think the only reason I saw it, because I was big into Sherlock and Cumberbatch is in it. That's probably the only reason I went to see it. I don't think I saw it. I watched it on HBO or something. But anyway, go ahead. No, no. It's fine. I was intrigued at first at his whole World War I thing. My only issue is he's trying to do kind of a bit of everything.

[00:37:32] Like, he's doing his usual brutal battles, but still keeping him in check for a PG-13 rating. But then he has an E.T. kind of ending where randomly they're about to go and put the horse, you know, kill the horse. Because they think, you know, it's past its prime. And then somehow they're able to magically make everyone stop what they're doing. Okay. I think that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. That was a little too... I will admit...

[00:38:00] I will admit he's very full of himself in this one, Smoeberg. But I thought it was worth a watch. But at the same time, it's kind of a one-time watch. Yeah. He's trying to recreate a lot of those early black and white World War I movies. Okay. But it's not perfect. That's what I'm getting at. Like, I enjoyed his popcorn. I wouldn't give it any more than that. But yes, Cumberbatch was really good.

[00:38:27] And I thought that was what was interesting about that was what I would call stunt casting. You just have famous people and they all got like one to five minutes worth of screen time. Tom Hiddleston was in it, but it was far from his Loki character. He was actually crying on demand. I'd say it was one of his better performances along with Only Lovers Left Alive by Jim Jermush.

[00:38:50] Because he's actually doing a standalone character as opposed to, I must, you know, play up a pre-established character for a franchise. But yeah, decent performances, fun adventure. But that's kind of it. So I can't ever put it in a top ten list. I would not recommend it unless you are absolutely a Spielberg completist. So, yeah. Sorry. But like you say, the ending is a little honky.

[00:39:20] It just seems like he didn't have any more dramatic stakes. So then he was like, well, what can I do that will get everyone crying? Okay, I'll have them attempt to kill the horse. Yeah. We did talk about War Horse and we found it interesting how it's so divisive for many people. But he's going back to, how about I do the same grit, but doing it in a World War I movie. And then let's have something for the kids that's not too violent.

[00:39:47] When he tries to balance different elements, no one tells him no, even if it's not fully working. But there's always a significant shot or cool sound edit that I'm like, that movie was worth a watch at least once. Think we choose to be born? Or are we fitted to the times we're born into?

[00:40:18] We begin with equality. That's the origin, isn't it? That's justice. See, we've shown that if people can endure awful sacrifice and yet cohere, shall we stop this bleeding?

[00:40:46] Abolishing slavery settles the fake for millions now in bondage. And unborn millions to come. It's either the amendment or this confederate peace you cannot have booked. No one's loved as much as you by the people. Don't waste that power. How many hundreds of thousands have died down your administration? We must cure ourselves of slavery. This amendment is that cure.

[00:41:15] God help us for trapping you in a marriage that's only ever given you grief. The fate of human dignity is in our hands. Blood's been spilled to afford us this moment. Now, now, now. Never trusted the president. Never trusted anyone. The war will be over in a month. Tell Lincoln to deny the rumors. We are guaranteed to lose the whole thing. Leave the constitution alone.

[00:41:45] You insult God. You think they'll keep their promise? I am the president of the United States of America. Clothed in immense power. BG-13. In theaters everywhere. November 16th. Here's a shout for you, Dave. You saying that? Lincoln. Not the one film you think of the Spielberg. You know, it's not the one that springs to mind. Cast is Daniel Day-Lewis, Sally Field, Joseph Gordon-Levitt,

[00:42:15] James Spader, Tommy Lee Jones, John Hawks. There's some humor in it, surprisingly, during the different Get a Messaging, Walton Goggins of all people. As one of the messengers. Jared Harris is in it as well. You just, you're absolutely right. I think, I just think if Spielberg's come knocking as an actor, you ain't gonna say no. Oh yeah. No. So, final closing thoughts on Lincoln. Like, it really is a one-of-a-kind movie. Like,

[00:42:45] some people have been trying to say, oh, it frustrates, the president's real intent. Like, it keeps it pretty neutral. Like, he really did want to end the war. And, I don't see any part of it where they're Hollywoodizing him into, oh, he's, you know, he thinks differently of blacks or anything. It's like, no. Lincoln was a very complex man. There's no denying that. And, he's unfortunately been whitewashed for years in either other movies or history classes. Like,

[00:43:15] he just wanted the Civil War to end. And, I think, he's, what really does this movie really well is how he's got, you know, a son who's drafted and he takes that pretty personally. He's never the same man again. But, so many great actors, some of whom, you know, I mean, he had freaking Gloria Rubin from ER. So, another member of the Spielberg family in the, in a key role. Sally Field was excellent. She's always excellent. And, as Miss Lincoln. And,

[00:43:44] the fact that it makes politics just fascinating, it is kind of interesting, especially when you look at it for a West Wing, you know, post-generation. He's just showing how compromise is just so hard and at the end of the day, something needs to happen to make this a reality. I can't recommend it anymore. And, it's literally one of his most important movies and probably his most successful, especially if you weren't crazy about Color Purple or Amistad. Like, this is the movie to look for. And, I don't know why

[00:44:14] some people are overlooking it. Every once in a while, I will see someone who goes, oh, that was overrated or put me to sleep. I'm like, how? Just, how? We'll return after these messages. All right, folks, we got a 90-minute weekly Shack Stop. It's growing all over the world. Find it at 2 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern Time on Mondays, then 3 p.m.

[00:44:43] on Wednesdays, then 7 p.m. on Thursdays. You can catch it on many more radio stations, 99.9 KERV, 1 p.m. Central Time, 2 p.m. Eastern on Mondays. Then, catch the Encore on Thursdays at 5 p.m. Central Time, 6 p.m. Eastern. Then, catch it Wednesday mornings at 11 a.m. Eastern Time, 10 a.m. Central, 1077 K-Twins. Then, hang out with us Wednesday afternoons

[00:45:12] on MXTR and House Act Radio, 3 p.m. Eastern Time. Then, Thursday, get up bright and early with us on 95.7 Web Radio at 6 a.m. Pacific Time, 9 a.m. Eastern Time. Of course, we've got the Friday covered as well. 12 p.m. Eastern Time on MXTR FM and 10 p.m. Eastern Time, 9 p.m. Central, 1077 K-Twins. Find everything on

[00:45:41] HowShack.com. HowShack. Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win in a fight between Goku and Superman? Hi, I'm James Gabsy and on the Who Would Win Show, me and my co-host Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world and debate fictional battles between characters from comics, movies, and video games. We got a new show every week and almost always am I the winner. Yeah, not true, Ray. In the past, we've discussed such matches as Captain America versus Darth Vader,

[00:46:11] Solid Snake versus the Iron Giant, classic matchups like Robocop versus Terminator, and even the Muppets versus Sesame Street. That one was crazy. So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate, check out the Who Would Win Show wherever you get your podcasts or check us out at whowouldwinshow.com. Follow us on the web on Facebook,

[00:46:40] Twitter, and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple, and anywhere else podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening. It's a Jacked Up Review Show.