Review of TV Epics ROME and EMPIRE (with Michael Amland from Pedestrian at Best!)

[00:00:04] Make way for the pro-console Gaius Julius Caesar! You went to the city under arms. The gods know my intentions are peaceful. Bones has fallen into the hands of a corrupt monster. What do you do? By the spirits of my ancestors, I curse Caesar. A decisive battle begins.

[00:00:32] Caesar is now surrounded and severely outnumbered. Are you with me? This is how history is made. The most infamous assassination of all time is just the beginning. Caesar is dead. But these are not meant up. And the future of an empire. Caesar named you his heir.

[00:01:09] Teach him how to rule. Lies in their hands about the radiator. I vowed to protect you. My assassins will come for you next. Right Octavia! You leave Rome a hunted boy, and you'll return an emperor. Names me successor. He named you his son. Flame of destiny.

[00:01:25] You will wear on this earth I would rather be than here with you. Come for me when you're Caesar. I will come for you. I am Caesar! You'll never be Caesar! EMPIRE Now on DVD It's a chapter review show It's a chapter review show Review show

[00:02:07] It's a chapter review show It's a chapter review show It's been a minute. Michael M. Lann You might know him from pedestrian at best. We last talked about all these nine inch nails, spin off groups, you know how to destroy angels and what have you.

[00:02:48] And a perfect circle. And boy, you've been staying busy. I can't believe it's almost been like two and a half years. Yeah, yeah, I was. Yeah, we won over all the all the main or James Keenan, Trent Reznor is back then and yeah.

[00:03:08] And you've been doing your best. You've been doing all kinds of interviews recently and yeah. Why do you think you are able to kind of sense a lot of that those stories that are yet to be told that bring out the humanity and everyone?

[00:03:29] Oh, I mean, that's a great question. I don't know. I just I just talk to people I think will be interesting and hope other people will feel the same. You know, that's generally in the podcast world that that seems to serve me well.

[00:03:48] I mainly knew you because you were mainly talking games. But what do you think you you were good at being able to branch out? You know, just was it just the conversation starting? Do you think? Just makes it more fun.

[00:04:04] I definitely appreciate podcasts that kind of stick to their to what they want to focus on. But for me, I just I'm too all over the place to do that. So yeah, it's not easy. But when you find it and when it hits

[00:04:23] and it's tough predicting the numbers because it's always like that episode got the most views. I didn't put that much effort into it. OK, I don't even look at him honestly. I don't really worry about it. I know I should. I mean, like I interviewed a podcastic recently

[00:04:41] and that's his whole thing is looking at data trying to really maximize your podcast potential. And for me, I just I don't worry about it that much. Oh fair. I mean, I see other people saying, oh, don't use this many hashtags

[00:05:00] and yet every other article I kept right in. As I said, if you want more engagement, just put in as many as you can, you know, but 10 versus just five. Yeah. And I mean, if that works great, having a super wide berth,

[00:05:15] wide reach for me isn't too big of a deal. And the pockets are pockets are very saturated. I learned that very early on. And really just it comes down to content and, you know, connecting with your listeners. Just do my best to do that. Do tell. No, just.

[00:05:32] Yeah. It doesn't seem that can be a bit too, where you see people saying, hey, look at my stuff and don't even listen to anyone else's or they freely admit I don't listen to anyone else's show. I'm like, well, come on. Yeah.

[00:05:48] The podcast community kind of stick or stick, I would say kind of faded out after a while, fortunately. Yeah. It became hard to keep up with it. If anything, they'll probably watch. I find that they'll watch the YouTube version of you,

[00:06:07] you know, just because there's a video to go along with it, or let's just look at the Instagram clips. And that's, you know, I guess that's attention enough. You took a highlight. Yeah, that's true. And I mean, I've branched out into that,

[00:06:20] even though I don't really understand why a talking head video gets more attention. I don't get it either. And just the audio, I'm much more into audio, I always have been. Oh, especially when you're driving. I can't very well look at a screen. Yeah.

[00:06:34] It's not crushed my car. So. Don't do that. Yeah, I don't recommend that. So man, we're talking about a pretty captivating show. And then after the fact, you can stay tuned for another just side scroll. We decided let's talk about two things.

[00:06:54] Let's talk about two Roman TV epics. The main deal for the most part, we'll be talking about John Malias, Bruno Hellers and William J. McDonald's Helmed HBO two season series, Rome with a brief section on. Rival show empire. No, not the 60s Western, not the long running

[00:07:21] Terran Tower, Taraji P. Henson Fox soap. We're talking I'm talking about the 2005 show that was basically the answer to that in gladiator and aired on ABC. But yeah, that one I don't know much of anything about. Why I was going to leave it for the end.

[00:07:39] I was just like, okay, cool. So it's pretty hard to do that too. But yeah, I mean, I promise we were just like mainly focus on the saga of Titus and Varinus. Yeah, which is really cool.

[00:07:51] I mean, I was really excited when you asked me to do this one because I've been looking for a reason to rewatch it. I hadn't seen it since 2005 and I actually never finished the second season. So it was nice to actually finally complete the series.

[00:08:06] And I was shocked. You know how well it holds up a lot of it is really good. Very nice, very nice. So my folks had bootleg cable, but we had it had gone out of

[00:08:18] it had gone out of it's a static by the time the show came along. And like sort of short, we we heard so many good things about it that we finally just subscribed to Netflix back when there was this thing called sending DVDs in the mill.

[00:08:37] Yeah, yeah, real, real Netflix. We did that basically when Game of Thrones was into its second season and followed up with that. But you know, we had been doing other cool stuff for a while like the tutors and just other cool stuff. And I really good too.

[00:08:51] Yeah, I trust me there's going to be some connections. So I mean, I was familiar with John Mulaios. You know, again, you wrote in Pondclips now and plenty of other, you know, give them hell war movies. And here you go.

[00:09:07] Here he kind of changes his tune to something that kind of has his over the top love of sex and violence, but doesn't have a low brow quality to it. If that makes sense. Yeah, I agree.

[00:09:19] So wow, I mean, it just shows you people can change their tune. And it's so funny how HBO produced this with Britain's BBC because Warner Bros owns both overseas. And this was basically unfortunately, you know, they were a danger to themselves rather than others

[00:09:38] because they were so spoiled on the success of all their other edgy shows like Oz and Sopranos and what have you. But it's like they wanted to do this first, but we're like, we don't think it'll fly. But then they're like, oh, Deadwood's getting all the word buzz.

[00:09:51] I guess we can do a, you know, now make it like that now that we know it works and then but just put it in Roman times as opposed to 1860s Western. Yeah, I mean, it's a famously expensive show to make.

[00:10:07] And it still hated paying the bills and splitting them. It's like they had to do that for Paramount with both Deadwood and Oz. And then they have to do it with this. And you're like, well, but it's good. Yeah.

[00:10:19] And I saw some people on Reddit citing some various articles on how long story short they hung themselves out to dry. They were just, they were so busy trying to predict the success. And it's like, well, most people, half the people out there don't have cable.

[00:10:37] And if they do, it's just, you know, antenna channels and everything. And they go to blockbuster when they want to get something. You know, it's just, yeah, they don't stay up late. They got kids. It's hard to sneak it in.

[00:10:47] It's just easier to own it and just, you know, prior to streaming, you know, who was going to win? I mean, this was still, for me, we still had cable. This is kind of like, you know, definitely HBO

[00:11:00] at the height of its powers showtime before one guy TV and DVRs. You know, it was hard to set a show. Like we would watch Band of Brothers like every other month. Band of Brothers, awesome. Yeah. It was delightful.

[00:11:13] But it was just like, we would just get a disc like every other month and just follow it up. It was easy to follow. But I'm sure people who had kids and didn't want, you know,

[00:11:24] it was hard to have a nine to five job, make time for them and then, you know, watch this before going to bed. You know, it's so... Yeah. I mean, that's what I was doing. I mean, me and my dad would get together

[00:11:35] and watch this kind of stuff. That was our Sundays where we're going to gather and watch, you know, these shows. So we've had a lot of good memories watching Deadwood, watching this. Sweet. Dexter and, you know, and it's heyday. And Poser was more intellectual.

[00:11:50] I, you know, before all the other people got shocked at, did you see what just happened on Andrage and Game of Thrones? I'm like, well, see, here's the thing. Like you see this, but you know why it's happening. You know, it's showing the corruption of the society

[00:12:02] and everything and the power abuse as opposed to... But what's funny is then I didn't know this. I knew about Michael Aptid's involvement. You probably... Why does that sound familiar? Well, he's only done just so many, you know, award-winning movies and shows.

[00:12:20] You've probably seen him do blockbusters like Grills in the Mist. The James Bond film world is not enough and Nell. But, you know, he... Everyone pretty much started caring about it when he made the award-winning coal miner's daughter. Right.

[00:12:38] I would always get a mix in with some of those other British directors, but he apparently... He unfortunately has left us 2021, but he had a funny interview where he just talked about it. He's like, I gave a big highlight on all the history in the first three episodes,

[00:12:54] but they added it down into two episodes, and then they wanted more tits and gore and thought that everyone would figure it out. And he's like, well, people in Britain might know more about it, but not everyone else does.

[00:13:07] Apparently in Italy, though, I read they would take out that not-safe-work content, and you didn't see that until you got the DVD. I'm like, see, culture is just weird, because I would always hear about this with like Boudestar Galactica, how there was an on-rated

[00:13:23] for DVD cut, but it just meant more... It wasn't necessarily more graphic. It just had just some slightly off-color language that's a blanket of mist, and it was a marketing tool to employ, but apparently overseas that you saw... Those Europeans like to just observe the human body

[00:13:41] in a non-sexual way. It's just so funny. Yeah, that's a show I haven't spent any time with. I think I've seen one episode of Boudestar Galactica, though. One of these days I'll sit down and do that. Because the better sci-fi shows,

[00:13:57] it just used war allegories and social commentary in the platform, but like Rome, it does do a good job of showing you all the war crimes and how the rulers are contrarians after a while, and both make great use of just those cold opens

[00:14:16] and just people talking to themselves in the rooms, just kind of losing their shit. But yeah, I've known other people who have seen some of these other actors at conventions. I already knew who Polly Walker was from Patriot Games,

[00:14:33] so I'll always be that evil IRA assassin to me. And this as... She wasn't the queen. Yeah, she was the queen. I should have my notes of Friday. She's an attia on the show. Attia, yeah, yeah. And it was just so wild just seeing all these guys

[00:15:00] you can see how spoiled they get on old, their various material. Yeah, I mean she starts spoiled and spoils. Yeah, but he's Julius Caesar. Well, Caesar, his Patriot Caesar is really good and really subtle. Definitely the first thing I saw Lindsay Duncan in as Caesar's lover, Cervilla.

[00:15:29] Yeah, she's awesome. She's awesome, totally. I recognize her voice anytime like I see it and then it's so funny I would go back and like, oh my God, she's been in some Tim Bernan films. She's the voice of the Trojan Phantom Menace.

[00:15:43] She's in the reflecting skin, City Hall and even body parts with Jeff V. She's the scientist. I'm like, Jesus, where did these comedians come from? And she's had a crazy career. In Dora Varma, I had seen Human Target by then

[00:15:58] but she kind of introduced me to the whole you know, those mixed British actors. It's like they're part Indian, part Swish and British and you're just like, and Kevin McKinn, I'm sure other people knew him from all those other doctor shows.

[00:16:18] He's actually done some voiceovers and call of duty but I'm pretty sure he gets called Marino's on the streets. He was also, he did some voice acting in Brave, I read. I think so, yeah, the Pixar movie, yeah. Man, he's really Scottish.

[00:16:36] You don't expect him to be as Scottish as he is when you're interviewing him. I think my favorite phrase from the show that he always says, he's always saying, what of it? Yes, I don't know. I started saying that to my wife. She gets mad.

[00:16:49] I was like, well, what of it? That would be cool to test that some film buffs who have seen a lot of TV shows, see how many of them get that. I would do that with Fans of the Unit, a good show that a lot of people saw.

[00:17:03] A lot of people saw it but you'll be damned as you can find just anyone on the street. You'll probably have better luck if you just see people who are the NCIS crowd but I would do that every once

[00:17:14] while I'd come up and be like, Snake, Doctor Out. I'm just saying it in grand. So that would be cool if you could do a Verena's line or just even just say the name, just like do a Money Python, imitating just riding a horse and be, Verena's. Yeah.

[00:17:31] His character, it is a really good arc for him. Oh yeah. The way they develop their friendship and everything is, I don't know, it's one of the more natural buddy comedies I guess. It really is. You really don't expect them to become as close as they do.

[00:17:51] It's certainly from the first three episodes. So it's a really cool arc with those two. Yeah, it's such a shame that he and his wife, Nairobi, don't get along and then just tragedy after tragedy and seeing Titus get played by some of the street

[00:18:12] whores into killing his actual love interest. You know, it's just all that deceit and then Brutus, he actually get inside his mind. So it was very, very compelling. I mean, even just Caesar's inevitable execution, that was so fun to predict because.

[00:18:30] And it's awesome the way it's done on the show. It's so tragic. It's absolutely. And it just looks so. To have the, it's been years, but I'll never forget just one of the age just saying, oh no, he puts, you know, the Domino's together and he's stopping.

[00:18:48] And then just the montage as the massacre is happening and just like see and. Yeah, so by his mentees as as Brutus, I recognized him. Outlander seeing him again. Yeah, outlander as captain. So Captain Jack or Frank? Well, he's Frank and Captain Jack.

[00:19:06] Yeah, it's a dual role for him. And it was so funny because. Name of British actor who hasn't been in a James Bond movie. And he was one of those. He was in one of the first Daniel Craig one is like one of

[00:19:16] Im's assistants who has like a grin. So it's just so. Which one? He had Casino Royale, like just. Isn't that really? It's like a blink and a miss. Like he's just like one of the texts, like listening in on one. And he just says, okay, shit eating grin.

[00:19:31] But that's never noticed that. It's so funny though how like you'll see those on their resume and you just wish their agents or PR team would just take some photos or add it to the real.

[00:19:43] So it's easier to look for them next time you see the movie, you know. Right? That's cool. I'll have to rewatch that too just to see that. He's a great actor. I love his portrayal of Brutus. Very charismatic. What's funny is I don't find him handsome there,

[00:19:59] but I can see how people have found him more handsome as he's gotten older. I don't know what it is. I think he just rocks that hair just so much. Yeah, he's just got this intensity. I don't know. It's hard to describe.

[00:20:11] I don't think by any natural convention you'd be like, oh yeah, this guy is a super handsome guy, but yeah, he's got something. I would always, I think it was Ian McNeish would play the speaker in the crowd and I would recognize him on Doc Marant. Fantastic.

[00:20:32] He is hilarious. Yeah, he's so good. Like the stuff he does with his hands, like you know, he's like emotions to the crowd and stuff. It's so funny. In Kudos to all the people working on this, to make this not feel like just a civil war type reenactment

[00:20:52] where the just, okay, students go in your place, but apparently I did read how apparently they had actual legit people as extras. So like the point you saw was cute. Well, they shot it in Rome. It's worth saying that too. Like they really are in the real locations.

[00:21:08] They put the money into it and they wouldn't appreciate it. They added stuff to it, but yeah, they're really there and they said that out in a lot to them getting into character. I recognize Shane Keerfoy, Mark Anthony, anything I see him in. David Bamber as Cicero.

[00:21:23] Mark Anthony, man, he is hilarious. He really is. And they do, he's technically not a good guy, but you can also, they do do that gray angle where you can see him. Well, none of them are really good guys rather than maybe Titus, maybe, you know,

[00:21:40] and that's really stretching. Maybe Titus, maybe Lucius, but they're also soldiers. I just find it funny how he's kind of more in the gray area because he can see why inevitably he does what he does and he has no shame about it because he's like,

[00:21:57] yeah, I'm pretty good looking. So I'm going to probably fuck this princess I'm doing a deal with, you know, and I am in Cleopatra and there was interesting. I don't know how much of that is a guy's fantasy versus some actual research, but whatever.

[00:22:11] You know, I'm glad they were interested. It works out really well. And I mean, it pays off later. You're supposed to think that the son is his kid. It's not actually Caesar's. That was a good twist, too. And I'm sure the history buffs were predicting it.

[00:22:30] But see, this is the kind of movie you could totally show in a college class and you would dig it, you know, like, yeah. And they dare I say kind of do what the West Wing does and everyone's like, oh, how dare you compare that

[00:22:45] to another awesome show? I'm just go with me here. I like they don't do the walk and talk, but I like how they do kind of just they just they in a way talk like how they possibly might have talked back in the day

[00:23:01] while also giving you an idea of, OK, that's probably you just gave me some kind of info on how they probably would have behaved back in the day and giving me some info on how the Senate works. You know, it doesn't have as much power as so that

[00:23:19] heads why they do the coup against Brutus, but not not Brutus. Caesar and I was already familiar with Karen Hines on Munich. But so that was a good year for him 2005. Yeah, yeah. It was a killer year for just media in general. But yeah, totally.

[00:23:39] And there's something about just how he just kind of they just again that you you don't feel like it's just a money shot. You feel like you're legit walking on the street the way those cinematographers first frame it.

[00:23:56] And, you know, I already at this point when I saw it in early 2009 2010 whatever I was like, OK, I appreciate art direction and all of this, but it's more to it than that.

[00:24:12] I am getting kind of a dare I say Lawrence of Arabia kind of vibe of just yeah, these guys want to be bigger than life, but not all of them are up to the task

[00:24:22] who will succeed and who will just, you know, follow one another and sort it. And I just but yeah, just no hoax hokey stuff in my take. And you could it would be hard.

[00:24:41] But if you wanted to, you could probably modify for TV or PBS and show some of it. But I agree. I mean, there's definitely an element of some of the sex and stuff is is gratuitous. It does serve the it does serve the characters because I mean,

[00:24:59] they really were that like outrageous. There were like orgies. There were symposiums all this kind of crazy stuff. But there are it's like I think it's kind of like the middle of season one. At one point, the sister is having, I don't want to say an affair,

[00:25:17] but she's having a relationship with Serbia. And then, unfortunately, those scenes don't go on too long and they'll often end it with you learning something new. But like you say, it's I mean, tell they got studio notes and they're like,

[00:25:33] OK, well, we're going to make it count as opposed to just have the actor moan like it's a sophomore porn. And then yeah, I have no problem with that. I mean, I want like, you know, there's there's the kind of like cause where

[00:25:48] because they're in on the joke at least, you know, OK, yeah, you didn't have to go there. But they're at least having an interesting narration go on or two different varying events. It is almost like a Star Wars. There's a battle being fought here.

[00:26:03] And then they're cutting back to this intrigue here. It's like a montage, but instead of like Jedi is getting struck with lightsabers. It's like instead of the TV edits, Cleopatra. There is that. I did get some complaints from some family members back in the day are like,

[00:26:19] do I really care about that? I'm like, well, just it's going somewhere. I love Cleopatra on the show. I think I know I like how she's playing mind games with everybody. That that was cool. That it does kind of take, if anything, I think it's more of a

[00:26:37] more of the Iliad than any actual Iliad adaptation like it does kind of. Yeah, totally. I mean, it feels more genuine. I mean, it doesn't come across like Stargate, Egypt. It comes across like Egypt. Each. Yeah. Yeah. And I love Stargate, but I know what you mean.

[00:26:54] It's not to the point where you're like, OK, close enough set. OK, filming in South Africa dressed up to look like Egypt. Yeah. Yeah. What's her name? Lindsay Marshall. Yeah, Lindsay Duncan. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Duncan. Yeah. Yeah, she she's awesome. Yeah, Sirvilla and.

[00:27:17] And the way they just the brooding suspense that that was pretty much the star for me because like you say, yes, inevitably you're going to see the sex and then you're going to see someone get decapitated.

[00:27:27] But it was kind of like Gladiator where he's like, OK, but obviously the goreheads were coming to this. That's all they're here for. But see, I couldn't do that man. You know, like I'm not that. Yeah, I'm not a gorehead. That doesn't really do much for me.

[00:27:42] And plus what do you do for those remaining 40 minutes where there isn't any of the bloodshed? It's going to be pretty boring, pretty fast if you're going for just the content. Yeah, it doesn't have it's it should shock you. I would see people do that all the time.

[00:27:56] It was worth it to say so and so is butter topless. And like, well, what about the other 90 minutes where that's not happening? That's no right. I mean, that's not the heartbeat of the show. The heart of the show or the characters, the dialogue.

[00:28:11] You know, what's his face as Octavian is especially the young Octavian is amazing. Yeah. You know, the dialogue they gave for him. He at such a young age is this like political genius. He's really dialed in all the other kids or everything is like, ah,

[00:28:30] please tell me they won't become victims. I do not want to see anyone get trampled or anything, but they they do a lot of that too. We're just like, I just know there's an assassin in the lurch and instead of just

[00:28:46] going for like voyeuristic shots, they always were very good at just kind of having just kind of some kind of what I call the Robin Hood shot. Just have a thief in the forest, you know, you know, peeking around a tree limb

[00:29:00] as one of the generals are getting collaborators or promising kind of the equivalent of Hessians during the Alamo just like getting all these other kind of merch, giving you all these other deceitful guys who is like and

[00:29:17] saying it without saying it is like, okay, you have the permission. You have the first rights to basically rape and pillage the village and we get to finish off the king and the other rulers who we mainly came here for and want their head on the stick.

[00:29:29] It's they Yeah, they established that really early on. I mean episode one when they're they're conquering Gaul. Gaul? Yeah. Gaul. Oh, probably I mean, I would say probably that episode one is maybe the best episode. I don't know. Totally.

[00:29:46] At Entertainment Weekly, I remember back in the day covered the shit out of it, talking about the special features and praising just uh, just the horse riding stuff because they made you feel like you're actually riding on a horse with them and

[00:30:01] but I mean that if there's anything it did definitely belong on HBO and BBC because like they are the kings of showing every day kind of lifestyle. So if anything like showing all this animalistic and what is completely

[00:30:14] you know, would be on acceptable behavior today just showing how that was the norm back then but without preaching to you is like hey, okay. Yeah, no shit Sherlock. Of course that's bad. Yeah, and I mean I appreciate uh, how uh, how much um Lucius is like uh,

[00:30:35] really cares about the opinion of the gods and kind of like those rituals and things like that. Oh, and Augustus is sister Octavia like I I knew the name Carrie Condon, I think from her movie work, but you know, I

[00:30:50] this would have definitely been the first thing I saw her in before uh, you know everyone, you know, Marvel heads will know her as the voice of Friday and obviously people know her as Stacey and

[00:31:00] Better Call Saul and Ray Doddavan and all this other stuff, but yeah, I think this was the first thing I saw her in but she was another one that was just chameleons like oh, I have seen her in a bunch of stuff, but like

[00:31:10] I think this was like a career boost. It's like you're you're an ensemble, you know Yeah, I mean she's you could do nothing for the next 50 years But people would still come back to you as like, oh, what was that amazing

[00:31:22] premium channel show that ran for two years and I know people get disgruntled because now we're spoiled and we have to make extra time for stuff, but I mean Well, I mean I prefer shows being shorter. I mean I actually

[00:31:36] I always dug it too. Eight to thirteen episodes. Sign me up. Yeah They said they wanted to do four or five and I I still see people complain about I'm like I find that way more

[00:31:47] It flows way more like a movie as opposed to I gotta watch all 20 seasons of this Otherwise good or bad show. I it's just easier and there's no filler, you know Yeah, what shows get past five seasons? Very few that get stay good

[00:32:04] Well, that's why I don't like when Netflix does it because there will be so many people who they pressure to just kind of have filler episodes It's like good. God just make it four if you can't do eight Right. I I totally agree

[00:32:16] I think breaking bad. I mean, I hate how people Go nuts over it so much But I didn't watch it for the longest time either because I saw so many stoners who were like best thing ever

[00:32:26] I'm like, well, just say but I do appreciate like from the outset. They said look we're just doing these Five seasons we have the set story. That's what we're sticking to. Yeah. No, no, I appreciate that I legit liked it

[00:32:38] But I was one of those I did not check it out for the longest time I'm like, I don't know man when something is that over height. It can't be that good But then lo and behold it is good. But yeah, I say they

[00:32:48] They three episodes in they they had all the thing going and They didn't have to It was such a big success again. The execs pretty much left him alone Yeah, and that's why I mean with room. I'm totally fine with the two seasons

[00:33:04] I mean, I definitely think the first season is stronger I don't know what they would have done in season three, but kudos to them for Getting the word ahead of time and then saying, okay, we're gonna cut down on the shooting schedule and just

[00:33:17] They wanted to do a lot more like with the like the jewish faction And kind of kind of showed that part of history like the christianity And absolutely no one wanted to take their time more with it. But unfortunately it did get cancelled, but to me

[00:33:36] I'm fine with it because I season two is You know if season one is an a plus season two is like a b-minus No, that's fine. Yeah, I I saw it back to back

[00:33:46] But i'm sure I could nitpick some different things that they feel like two different movies in my context, but there's cicario and then there's cicario two right it Season one is pretty much about the deceit and the inevitable

[00:34:01] You know attack on caesar wall then yeah season two you got all the other leopatra and the other conquering of Inhabitable war Yeah It takes a long time to get going to to the exciting

[00:34:15] So I think if they had started with like mark anthony and clea patra early on It may it would have probably would have hooked me a little bit more But those first episodes are just kind of like what do we do now?

[00:34:26] Yeah, I don't know makes sense and that's obviously where it had to go I just I would I would have rather have had that be a bookend episode of season one instead of starting season two that way Yeah, it's a tough act to follow right

[00:34:45] I'm just but I don't even know what they would have done in season three. Would they had just done other just I think they just would have extended things longer They said it but I don't know. I'm I'm fine with what they have

[00:35:03] And there's other shows that hbo. I wish could have kept going on longer instead of this one. I think this was great Right for what it is No, very true And it definitely set the table for future epics. I mean, you know game of thrones

[00:35:21] Yeah, literally took a lot of influence from this Mm-hmm in terms of set design and even some of the actors they took into her Yeah, because what uh, naeobi is um One of the characters in game of thrones. I can't it's one of um, uh, petro pascal

[00:35:38] Peter there you go petro pascal. I I gallagaman. Yeah Yep. Yeah, but um really really good really really cool show if you've never Sat down and watch that I highly recommend um You know whether you're into this history or not Still very entertaining

[00:35:58] I would hope people wanted to pick up a history book after this and say see what you've been falling asleep during class Or, you know, if you were annoyed with your forced portrayal of julia caesar like go read that play too yeah

[00:36:16] Um, I was kind of a little just a little disappointed. I was hoping, you know, we'd kind of hear a tube routé but That's okay Yeah, that is basically it We'll return after these messages If you like small town mystery crazy news and wild history

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[00:37:26] Listen at brentfist.com apple podcasts or wherever fine podcasts are found The jacked up review show podcast is honored to be part of the blind knowledge podcast network Join anytime talk the talk and enjoy yourselves There's something enlightening for everyone with this crowd of cool cats

[00:37:47] Check them out Um, so what what was this other show empire? That good transition. Thank you. Uh, so dynamite show like so it was co-written by chip johansen who was best known for writing on shows like 24 and season free of millennium was the head writer in that and

[00:38:15] directed by john gray who people know from ghost whisper and Kim Manners who has held numerous episodes of supernatural brisco county jr and x files and uh, it was shot in parts of us in canada and they borrow Here in this we had from the borges

[00:38:37] calm fior as julius caesar they had also james frayne as brutus another Another co-conspirator. Uh, they had the all state guy, uh, denise haesburg, you know, president palmer from 24 as mcgonious and he was like a

[00:38:54] Uh slave, you know forced to fight and that they took grand mctovish who's done a lot also done a lot of call of duty type stuff In voiceovers. You might know him as one of the recurring bullies

[00:39:06] met medicine in the street with titus and roam as he played the general on this but uh Unfortunate it's a shame trackies are split on the new picard seasons. I really dug them personally, but I loved how This was definitely the first thing I saw

[00:39:23] rios portrayer sentiego cabrero in he played octavius and laris the romulan gal Orla brady brady who's done plenty of others things played adia But this had jonathan kank who's done a bunch of other british stuff and was in chuck

[00:39:43] Uh, he played the main hunk tyronius and but the all that matters not because the main started to look out for It's a little unknown uh known as emily blunt this came in and So yeah, this lasted six episodes briggie tannies who

[00:40:05] had worked on stuff like house and prison break and worked on this also and It just it's all on dvd and what was really awesome is they edited the episodes together seamlessly So unfortunately, they couldn't edit out the credits, but it was fine. It flowed so

[00:40:23] Without interruption. So like it like free episodes would be like edited together and they had some cool behind the scenes stuff and much like Uh, rom they did film in different stuff and they did a mixture of closed sets as well as filming in europe and

[00:40:41] Uh, I see some people questioning about the timeline everything and the historical things But see I think you could still be okay showing this in a history class because at least they're getting the main points across that

[00:40:51] Yeah, they're gonna get the facts in the text, right? This is more about it's not the feeling It's not as bad as others shows whereas like uh, that person died of a heart attack. Why are they showing them getting their Frode slut? It's a complaint misrepresentation

[00:41:06] I don't mind them taking some liberties as long as they don't fly or something That's true And be consistent don't right have this and that but yeah critics weren't too crazy about it, but it's got some decent

[00:41:20] I'll have to check it out. I mean i'm senior looking at it and I'm surprised very inexpensive. Yeah, I And plus it was cool to See I remember even seeing the ads for it and it was very bland

[00:41:33] So I think that's just it. I think the marketing screwed it up. I think it made people go What is that? right Well, I mean, you know, it's always followed the leader. I mean gladiator is a huge hit

[00:41:46] So it's like, whoa. Yeah more Roman stuff Troy's out. Yeah, let's do this Emily blunt was really good in this and I got a plotter, you know that it's one of her first roles, you know, and and I loved how

[00:42:02] Michael burn you might know as the tank commander in indiana jones and masquerade, you know He was he played sissaro and I loved how it gave you and I I mean, there's a reason a lot of these guys worked on plenty of other addicting prime time shows

[00:42:16] I think they were so good that I'm not saying this is i claudius worthy acting but it It would be a worthwhile like Uh double viewing with that because like they they really leaned hard into

[00:42:32] You know, roam did really good at the danger around the corner. This did the whole Pledge your allegiance, but It wasn't a spy show, but it kind of felt like that at times. It's like that's cool

[00:42:44] And just I mean come on these guys worked on the homeland later on so I mean the same kind of deal just showing hey, um Uh someone just gave me an impossible mission. So but This means i'm gonna probably end up having to kill my friend or

[00:43:01] All the other stuff and i'm seeing some Is it on hulu? Hold up It might be yeah, I mean all sorts of stuff has been popping up on streaming lately. Oh no

[00:43:14] That's the fox show damn you i'm db. They do this all the time when it shares a name. You're like that's not the same title right I have had to do that before i'm like it's not the tiraji peyans in rap show It's also not boardwalk empire

[00:43:30] It is not boardwalk empire It is not empire strikes back. It is not the john leguizamo prime movie it is 2005 so I think to compete for like an emmy they did

[00:43:44] restructure it claiming it was a mini series, but the only other show i'd seen them do with was a undre braggart fx show called thief so It was wild how they did that but um yeah, no, I

[00:43:58] Had pick up the dvd. It's got to be just five bucks free shipping go for it Yeah, I mean if you can find it on amazon or any any distributor like that I'm sure it's a it's a steal. It's certainly worth watching. Yeah, you will not lose but

[00:44:15] Even though it's on cable tv the same I would argue there is at least If anything you could say this is your It so Rome season one that's the main feast Season two is the afters as they call in hobbits. It's the hangover and this is a dessert

[00:44:41] with the marijuana right but But but really really top level like way better than as than advertised or you're like this is too good to come last Yeah, because that was what abc did that one. Yeah released it

[00:44:59] And yeah, they didn't know what to do. They were so used to just I think I don't know. I think people just didn't tune into as many of their shows because they're just so intense or risque

[00:45:11] Right, and I was like this was tvpg. I don't think my parents want me watching this and Yeah, I mean I do remember being a little uncomfortable watching some of this with my dad, but we've just kind of laughed it off You have to

[00:45:27] Things go into other things son right But that's the other thing too. I'll you know What of it? Yeah My dad stopped watching as much stuff. I could get into be addicted to similar stuff especially if it was a historical or spy show or a pbs stock but

[00:45:47] I still do stuff with my mom at sometimes I don't know the older you get I think people start getting a more active imagination I would see them freak out and see stuff that wasn't even there. I'm like, good god

[00:45:59] The yeah holding a knife up to someone's throat. They didn't stab them. I don't know. I saw something I'm like you are getting way too wigged out about Yeah, my mom's almost like 80 years old and she was telling me she watched poor things recently

[00:46:12] I was like, oh lord, mom You want to talk about some like Nutty a lot of young Frankenstein. It's not I was like i'm kind of glad I wasn't there for that. I wish people I trust me dude. I I lose sympathy When

[00:46:38] The rating is right there on the poster and I mean every tv spot is rated r You know it's just or unrated Unrated oh and see I have A relative who takes one of my aunts, you know, she's the daughter but she'll take her aunt to a movie

[00:46:56] And you know The aunt has you know a hearing aid but Half the time they'll be watching something and they'll walk out. They'll be offended. I'm like, well you had you wasted 40 bucks that you didn't need to waste come on it

[00:47:11] You know, I mean maybe she will have a friend They can do some some research and see if it's going to be it's a comedian. It's rated r They're going to take advantage of that rating to where Yeah, no Yeah, I mean I remember years ago

[00:47:30] When I saw stealth park bigger water uncut There was like a grandma and like she clearly brought her grandson And I guess she had no idea what they were going to see but I just remember watching like her wrist

[00:47:43] She was like like basically her fingers have to be like Like finger marks like on the their seat because she was just sitting there like oh my god. I can't believe what I'm seeing There is that I think movies just ruined it for us and people got more

[00:48:00] I think audiences got callous for a while and then they started tensing up and I think this was before we started having all our mental health breakdowns and everything that like there are so many times where it's like

[00:48:12] I don't know what you expected. I mean don't get me wrong. I have experimented with it before We've been doing unofficial christmas movies for a while and That's fun. It's to the point where you know

[00:48:23] We were never big on home alone, but like I've been trying to tease leave the weapon. I tried gremlins too In fact, I did I rewatched them like still just as good as when I was a teen but I

[00:48:34] Had a mixed bag and it's just I don't know people Are inconsistent. I I see other My sister can't handle evil dead, but she can handle something like happy tree fans and see I think I hate cartoons that have bullying and

[00:48:50] Goring them. So I don't know I I'm fine with it when it when it's a movie, you know But so I don't know we're all picky My mother doesn't do horror movies unless it's something like x-files. So, you know, it's

[00:49:01] And yeah christmas. I'm very traditional like I want to watch it's a wonderful life Stuff like my dad does too. And so I cheated. I'm like, well, it's it's in gremlins one Does that count? He's like that's fun. I like I like both of the gremlins

[00:49:14] My brother did not I've seen crampus like twice I don't want to watch that every christmas. Yeah, you would have to you would have to have a really packed crowd with that Um

[00:49:26] Die hard always kills, but I don't know my mother is sick of it. And I'm just like well It's a crown pleaser and people like it because the dialogue is legit

[00:49:38] It's still funny if the action still works. It's it's great. I love it as a screen from a screenwriting perspective I love the villain. I love the plot if the worst thing about the movie is that the Is seen it too much

[00:49:51] Right the stuff that you that happens in the last 10 minutes that it's just an editing blooper for One minute that that's pretty good compared to wait a second, you know and all the stuff that they cut out like well It was wise

[00:50:05] It was this is an editing masterpiece because there's other movies where they get bloated with plot and You look at I love making Kind of like when I watch a movie that is a knockoff of the exorcist or rosemary's baby

[00:50:19] I love making fun or even enjoying all the die hard knockoffs because there's a lot of them that try to do a worthy, you know One up and then there's plenty that just screw the formula up. You're like that guy. Yeah, there's no way

[00:50:32] He's getting through all those unconvincing hackers and bank robbers Yeah, I I agree. I mean, you know, I enjoy a frozen pizza. I also enjoy a really good pizza Pizza is one of those people are okay with when you screw up. They just don't come back again

[00:50:57] They just joke about the pizza while still eating it So it is funny how we are kind of the junk food generation But now the people who have been bracing the junk food for the last 20 years are now sick of it too

[00:51:08] So it's kind of that point. What do you do now? Then yeah, people are even more spoiled and They don't know what they want. I am kind of tired of that too where I see

[00:51:19] People who like James Bond or John Wick stuff, but now they're sick of that. I'm like, well, what do you want? Well, just I feel like taste dive is a good site that they're pretty good at matching you up with similar movies and shows that

[00:51:35] Are like two sides of the same coin. You're like, okay, that's cool. I've never heard it. I'll have to check that out It's way better than doing the inevitable what everyone else has done where you uh, you would rent something from blockbuster but not

[00:51:48] agree on when to watch it or uh Browse for the streaming until you find something by accident that is good or sucks, you know Yeah, I know. I mean for me

[00:51:59] The one that has to pick something and if we both don't like it, you know, that's my fault Be nice to take some of the I've been in the bullet on that I was the worst at remembering the endings just because kind of like roam

[00:52:13] I'm just used to grim and gritty stuff and so everyone's while I'd be like, oh, fuck. That's right Everyone does die in the last 10 minutes. I'm sorry. I forgot Yeah, she she launched season one. We watched all that basically in one day

[00:52:27] But season two we got two or three episodes and she was like this doesn't have enough mark and anthony Like let's watch something else I had to finish it by myself. Which was fine Yeah I've had to say that to other people too

[00:52:42] I I knew people who wouldn't watch stuff just because It happened around the time they had a traumatic event. I'm like, oh lord. Come on, you know You can't wait on everyone to watch this with, you know, it's just But I get it sometimes

[00:52:57] I don't know. I see people who Kind of like I was avoiding stuff because of the hype. I was waiting for it to die down, you know, five years later It's like, okay, that's fine. Now now I can

[00:53:08] Try it out and it's it's fine. It it held up I would like it Regardless of if anyone else did or did not like it like there's There's no mistaking like I had a great screenwriting professor growing up who told me about subtexts

[00:53:24] We're basically you say something without saying the predictable. I love you or this has to be done Like yeah, if you can somebody of these great shows, especially both these shows tonight I think aced it that the ace in the hole was absolutely the dialogue like the

[00:53:41] Walking around in Rome was just as fascinating as all the inevitable battles and Backstabbing's Yeah, instead of just that was a great actor delivering If you dialogue, you know on a soundstage, you know, it was not that

[00:53:58] Oh, I agree. I mean even the simple scenes where they're just kind of roughing up some gangster Like these are just you don't see these types of scenes Written or acted as well These days absolutely not you see Now people complain about the glass Uh

[00:54:16] building up in between shots while they're having a simple meal or something and uh, fortunately so many Uh of these scenes like they like they would give you an idea what what is someone probably coming in after having showered, you know or uh been at the equivalent of

[00:54:37] uh Dining out and Seeing the city every day, you know, and what is their hut like, you know Yeah, just that every day kind of feel and it's tough to describe in words when it is a visual context, but

[00:54:53] I mean so many other shows. Yeah, would probably waste time with that They're pretty much who do we get picked up by and how long can we last it's like, ah, please and unfortunately Fortunately, this is kind of one of those because it was kind of overseas

[00:55:07] I never heard anything bad about casting crew. It just seemed like other than those them giving them notes they They were overseas they it was a pretty fast-paced, uh, british and Italy production and

[00:55:22] It seems like a labor of love for these people. Absolutely. I get the idea that they were all really excited to do it Because i've heard about other riders room at hbo being very toxic like producers saying Just shitty remarks and is like that that's a shame because

[00:55:39] No one should ever have to feel pressure or be bullied out of a job. Yeah for sure And yeah, that Obviously doesn't get their best work Yeah, if I don't want to work for you, you're not going to get my best work Oh man

[00:55:58] And I mean that you know, you can see it in some of the some of the shows that went on too long I mean, I I like the sopranos but even that like I'll never watch that whole series again. I'll never watch all of entourage ever again

[00:56:09] Yeah, I can't do the finals next in the city They all went on way just way past the point of being fun Well, and that's just it too that did I see some of those other snobs who only watch network tv or only watch

[00:56:23] Shows that are on the movie channels and i'm just like It can all be enjoyed, you know Yeah, I mean why limit yourself You you don't no one says you have to like all these superheroes but or Scorsese free hour movies, but at the same time you

[00:56:39] You can Like all that or not like all that it's okay. They're it. Yeah, and it'll be open to try something outside of your your normal Instead of it too. Good because I see that too. I'll see people say this show is getting formulaic

[00:56:55] I'm like, well, you're not exactly challenging yourself either Right. Yeah try Yeah, and try some different people are impatient They don't know how film sets work I used to do extra work dude

[00:57:07] And I would encounter some of the rudest extras and they would say the show sucked just because they didn't make the final cut It's like you're playing a bellboy opening a door big deal So it really is like that always sunny episode where like d is an extra

[00:57:22] She's like it's supposed to be dead, but she keeps trying to like be in the show And see I'm some I get that that that shows improvise, but yeah, it's yeah. She is That's funny That that film set must have been corrupted because like that

[00:57:38] They don't typically let people get on set a few more times, but yeah, it is funny how I would see people acting like an actor actress was spoiled. I'm like they're concentrating on doing the take just as good You know 20 times

[00:57:53] They don't need to be focused on where their bruises are on their face and yes, they're stunt double or Ornators going to rearrange the car. They're driving Because insurance, you know, it is and I just I'd had to school some of them and

[00:58:07] Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to know that unless they Have listened to dvd commentaries But see I see other people they learned about it just because they saw a smack talk

[00:58:17] Peace I'm like, well see screen ran is not your go-to either you should be actually like Sitting down But then I see other people who won't watch something if it's not on blu-ray or streaming I'm like good god. So again the limiting it

[00:58:32] It is like make the effort guys. You will get a winner Like I I miss when I would find A one dollar dvd at 7 11 just because they took away all the packaging but Those days are gone Five six years later does does not exist

[00:58:50] Yeah, yeah, I sound crazy when I mentioned that everyone's like, oh only the truck drivers probably know No, no, no, I remember uh I think I got a copy of shark nato from 7 11 and I was like that's that's pretty high brow

[00:59:06] Compared to what uh, what's usually offered. Oh my god. That's great. Yeah And it was kind of in that way where it's like you you can't resell this You can you can keep it or you can just toss it in the trash of it

[00:59:21] Yeah, I mean it's I would hate the whole notion of even throwing something in the trash. He's like, what if Because now I'm seeing people want to seek out like lost media or something and is like well

[00:59:31] Not everything's going to be on youtube or archive dot org anymore either. So I mean you Man, I mean time It's tough because Anybody could have seen this coming And I think a lot of people were glad it's coming but now that it's actually here now they're complaining

[00:59:47] That's how I feel about it. That there is a lot of that contrarian sense too Is like enjoy the good times instead of bitch bitch bitch and like Yeah, I mean it's cliche to say the things you won't end up owning you so

[01:00:02] Just put that in your basement. My age is having to be in your memories. I don't know That could be a two. I mean some stuff Don't get me wrong. There's gonna be plenty of stuff that didn't age well and it just opened our eyes up is like

[01:00:15] Oh, I always had something off about that movie. I didn't realize it was that and but then there's other stuff is like Yeah, no, this should have only existed in the 80s or 90s

[01:00:23] There's a reason it came out then, you know, and then there's I've got a Batman the animated series dvd I still to this day. I've never even put in the dvd player and I Like

[01:00:34] It's a love that show. Yeah, it can it can stay in storage and then you take your vinyl out when you really you just get that rare Two weeks off vacation and say, you know what I'm gonna

[01:00:47] I I guarantee you I could probably go for old vhs tapes and say hey I think this has some of our old nickel loading or disney chel stuff It's probably got the original 80s muppet and sesame streak crossover special

[01:00:58] Like, you know, it's probably got this. It's probably got that, you know, and I don't have a hole there somewhere. Absolutely. I sometimes have to I also have to explain music licensing rights to people because

[01:01:09] All they know is hey, I can only get this in physical versus on itunes or spotify. I'm like, well There's plenty of songs Your best bet actually might be youtube because it can't be licensed by anyone

[01:01:23] Yeah, who thought youtube would be you got to rip it from the vhs remastered in Adobe Put it on youtube. Yeah Oh man, uh, so Or what what uh, how much do you think you'll you'll be covering soon? Uh Right now, um

[01:01:44] I've got one more guest episode coming up. Uh, actually with Uh, fantastic. I did that. That was the most recent one. Yeah They they really are legit very nice guys like Yeah, yeah, awesome awesome people there. Um, and then uh, just gonna be doing some some solo episodes

[01:02:04] Going to talk about some Different things I've been reading and just going to be kind of doing some more solo episodes for a while Just because I I don't really have a co-host anymore and uh All right, and um

[01:02:20] Yeah, just kind of revamping the show and looking at some different things so wild how we can make ourselves sound more interested than we actually are and just add background music and everything and It take take out all the those and those and ahs, you know and

[01:02:37] That stuff never bothers me. I mean they really getting into the deep minutiae of podcasts I'm like it's people talking in a microphone. It's I don't oh, I like it. It doesn't need to be this perfect thing Yeah, it doesn't need to be perfect either. It's just

[01:02:53] I don't know I Half the time some of those got nice sayers are just insecure about their how they talk and like well I love me. You should love you too I agree You only get one life to love yourself so you might as well start

[01:03:09] I totally agree. Yeah Uh, it was a blast talking about with your music back in the day and this was fun Just talking about this show because like

[01:03:18] I don't know anyone who hates it if they did they just it was probably too slow a burn for them back in the day I mean, don't get me wrong. I I tried this. I think when I was still

[01:03:30] Initially it was hard to get into but fortunately we were able to Give it another go and I really I think it is like many other shows that Are often pretty beloved, but it is but it is the sleeper kind. I think

[01:03:48] People in the industry love it people who saw it then and saw it now like it. It's just It's more of a word-of-mouth kind of show and the other show unfortunately is gonna remain obscure just because it was canceled and

[01:04:02] Unless you're a firefly show people often aren't going to give canceled shows Another chance so I get it. Yeah, I mean to the surprise of of not probably not many. I mean obviously hbo You know

[01:04:15] More now with low crowd country and everything you're like, ah lord you had a good And it's so good Yeah Yeah, that's that is definitely a show. I think deserves some more Um time that was that was disappointing yeah

[01:04:35] But yeah, yeah, thank you so much. I I always always love talking with you. It's always interesting. I always learn a lot Uh, you know when I do get some guests for sure I honestly just have some tabs open and just have some extra notes

[01:04:48] You know, I see so many people they want to go like instantly to the wikipedia imdb page I'm like, trust me guys. They've already read it before you said it just right say it

[01:04:57] I would do this too where people would give me a script and I'd be like I don't talk that way though It's gonna sound weird coming from me versus you but

[01:05:08] So modify it to your standards and other times just practice a few times in the mirrors. Yeah, just It doesn't have to be you pleading for a job interview, but it also shouldn't just sound So forced towards just so unnatural and everyone's like you all right there buddy

[01:05:28] Yeah, I mean luckily now now it is I mean you can easily record yourself Yes, why not do that and use that to help you Kind of I you are God's jury and executioner with your voice now. I mean

[01:05:43] Uh, I fortunately had someone who showed me the ins and outs of Audacity and I loved it. I was just like see this Was a perfect example of How to I mean I had heard people use it for years on their You know music but I love how

[01:06:03] uh, you know You don't have to take just any class to learn how to remaster sound but like when Hang out with just even friends who you know and radio and just You will fall you will keep falling in love with the creative process

[01:06:21] And getting your own instead of saying, oh, here's this can I hire someone else and break my bank to do this? It's like own it Yeah, and and have fun with it if you're not having fun Doing it then don't

[01:06:35] Yeah, there is that tell you yeah instead of belching into your microphone and saying oops I'll fix it in post and then not doing it just Make time also. I mean if you're somebody who really wants to do this really want

[01:06:48] I mean you have to understand it takes a long time to build an audience. It takes a long time If it takes a long time trust me then no one else wants to hear you complain about that Exactly. I mean

[01:07:00] I don't I just uh be consistent and enjoy doing it Enjoy it. It'll come through that way For sure Oh, man, so absolute delight. Uh, just focus stargate. I'll let you know if we when we do another inevitable another special on that but um

[01:07:20] But also just plenty of other stuff like I'll I'll teach some other bands and uh upcoming movie events uh soon and I'll I hope to have you on a bigger round table also. Yeah Yeah, I I'm always happy to come on. It's always super fun

[01:07:37] So yeah, those are always the best because then for hours everyone blows up each other's phone saying who was that guy? We gotta meet And no, I mean I I love you know meeting new people. It's always always fun And you remember it. Yeah, he's just like see

[01:07:54] We were in heaven. We escaped reality in a good way right Oh, yeah But absolute delight sir. Thank you so much. It was a lot of fun Likewise. Thank you so much And yeah, right you safe out there Yep, you as well All right, got to be

[01:08:36] Thanks a million for listening