Old School Spies Week: Burn Notice Villains Special with Brandon Moore & Jon Mark)

[00:00:00] It's a Jacked Up Review Show, it's a Jacked Up Review Show, it's a Jacked Up Review Show

[00:00:16] It's a Jacked Up Review Show, it's a Jacked Up Review Show, it's a Jacked Up Review Show

[00:00:46] It's a Jacked Up Review Show, it's a Jacked Up Review Show, it's a Jacked Up Review Show

[00:01:10] On the same way, some stuff. You should see me every time I am bingeing a show with everybody. I'm like one more one more

[00:01:18] We're gonna think of it. But they're like no, cam tap out. I'm like well haven't you seen it already? Yeah

[00:01:25] I'm like okay, I'm good at doing sorry

[00:01:29] But I did have to slap myself on the risk one time. It's like okay, I don't need one more just

[00:01:33] Everyone's fading

[00:01:35] But see I only fade away if it's a show that's like well-acted, it's artistic and everything but I have no interest in the story

[00:01:43] And that can be hard because like down to Navi is like one of the few that like cut for that bubble is like see

[00:01:48] These guys know how to create a period piece

[00:01:51] Show the aristocratic lifestyle in the UK back then and the acting is just so perfect at

[00:01:57] Bringing those characters alive and then there's some of those others where it's like

[00:02:01] It's good for what it is

[00:02:03] But that my cup of tea sorry

[00:02:08] Probably be better as a pvd documentary, you know

[00:02:14] Apple I think has it figured out because I just you know Brandon they bought a 24 and they're out now

[00:02:19] They're doing all kinds of butter and experimental stuff

[00:02:22] um

[00:02:23] And

[00:02:25] I think i'm just talking with Robert Ward on the Legion podcast threads and he was just like why are so many people hate the last season to

[00:02:31] To last so i'm like, I don't know i guess they're just missing the point

[00:02:35] It's got humor but it's not every minute you know it is like very words of dramedy

[00:02:42] Just interesting and

[00:02:45] It

[00:02:47] And you never know what movie is gonna just kind of urky where you're like really

[00:02:51] It's made everyone lose their shit over this

[00:02:57] Okay there

[00:02:59] Yeah, moving the shot

[00:03:04] Nothing you just said that's what i said about Bobby so

[00:03:07] I guess

[00:03:09] Uh well at least you didn't see mission possible that that was that was very tragic

[00:03:14] I was like that was a disaster movie

[00:03:16] I ran it and it just felt like they didn't know what they were making

[00:03:20] If we make it die hard we make it Tom Clancy let's just rip off her one Alan

[00:03:25] But stars Tom Cruise is he going stuff the rocks

[00:03:30] Yeah, it was

[00:03:32] I it was the first time i'd seen it with one of my stand-up comedian pals and he he was trying like

[00:03:37] Constantly nudging me saying i'm trying to not riff i'm trying to not riff. Okay, fuck it i'm gonna riff

[00:03:44] Like go ahead the the sounds pretty isolated here

[00:03:48] Okay, well welcome to the show all bringing back Brandon Moore howdy

[00:03:55] Hey there podcast fanatic

[00:03:58] And occasional guest on here and Johnny boy mark

[00:04:03] How's it going?

[00:04:07] We either bring you or the other uh Johnny Bravo in here

[00:04:12] The other Johnny

[00:04:14] So wait we all like laid-back kind of programs and it's always funny when

[00:04:20] Uh, we've been kind of going back and forth just talking about different movies and shows and seeing how they landed

[00:04:26] It was awesome when Brandon was telling me it's like yeah, I can't get into this break in bad show

[00:04:30] I'm like see that's okay. I can't do the last season of sopranos is awful

[00:04:34] And it's interesting which shows just for us because it's like yeah

[00:04:38] I understand what they're going for but they look gorgeous. Just so unlikable

[00:04:44] And

[00:04:45] And this is before everyone was kind of

[00:04:48] Spoiling every other show on Facebook whether it was walking dead or game of thrones and you're like

[00:04:53] Haven't seen the episode yet, but now that I know that oh not looking forward to the night

[00:04:59] Oh, so we're going for kind of a campier kind of just laid back kind of

[00:05:03] The summer show if you will

[00:05:06] That's like not monk not dead zone. No, we're talking about USA networks other show burn notice we covered it before but we just figure just

[00:05:16] Well one thing we like to do when we revisit these movies and shows we're not gonna talk about say like our favorite

[00:05:21] Gory scenes and like evil dead or exciting moments in the diehard franchise. Let's talk about like the villains that

[00:05:29] Enforced the narrative of these movies and shows and

[00:05:34] Yeah, lo and behold if we're gonna revisit burnos. We gotta just talk about

[00:05:39] The various again

[00:05:42] enemies so to speak he doesn't call him villains just enemies just the ones who

[00:05:48] Pretty much made his off the grid lifestyle even harder the phantom

[00:05:54] So um

[00:05:56] Before we get into this Brandon, how did you get into the show? Was it when it was syndicated or when um he came out

[00:06:03] It was actually court who told me you need to watch the show and it was probably halfway through season two that it was on

[00:06:12] He had already like got mounted dexter at that point

[00:06:14] Oh, wow

[00:06:17] And so I just started watching this and I was like this is

[00:06:20] This is a great show because it just combined like my two favorite shows, which was the 18 and McIver

[00:06:25] Let's put them booked together and I was like

[00:06:28] And I just was hooked and I have watched this show

[00:06:32] Oh my god so many times that

[00:06:35] Yeah, I've already watched it over no first one

[00:06:39] Yeah, I see him often compared to 24 or the equalizer but yeah dexter's an interesting mindset same kind of deal is like

[00:06:46] That right out of him kind of takes from the same kind of formula even though that's way grittier

[00:06:51] But it's like okay, who's the big bad this season and

[00:06:55] Basically who's gonna

[00:06:58] How's he gonna get out of this?

[00:07:01] And

[00:07:03] Yeah, no that's uh I had no idea a court from cinema style. It was a fan

[00:07:07] But that's awesome because that it is kind of wild how

[00:07:11] He tries to avoid violent situations, but near the end. He's pretty much having to say well

[00:07:15] I guess I'm gonna live in a legal lifestyle continually and

[00:07:20] Have to keep farting these various guys who were trying to kill me

[00:07:25] But

[00:07:27] Who'd have thought that Miami is the place to be

[00:07:31] Nothing good's happening here

[00:07:35] So

[00:07:37] Some of these were a total refresher. I had to rewatch some clubs and like oh, oh, oh, that's right. Oh

[00:07:44] He didn't do that and oh my god, that was a wacky storyline

[00:07:52] Uh, there's even just so many one-offs like big vads of the week where it's like they never show back

[00:07:58] But you're like I wonder what happened to them

[00:08:04] So

[00:08:06] I guess all just in no order just kind of just circle around just

[00:08:09] Uh the ones that are kind of just by season kind of the main

[00:08:13] ones to go to and now keep in mind uh

[00:08:17] uh

[00:08:19] The there are plenty of peers who are

[00:08:22] Technically on the opposing side, but they're not

[00:08:26] So to speak his antagonist. They're actually kind of like trying to help him out like Lauren Stemmel on

[00:08:32] Uh, you know

[00:08:33] Danny, you know, she's technically not the enemy. She's trying to make things

[00:08:37] You know easier for both parties, but she's just like this is not gonna end well

[00:08:47] I'm gonna go with the main one who kind of tops it all off who kind of

[00:08:52] Pretty much is this ruthless just not gonna give him a second chance gonna do the whole

[00:08:57] Kill on site now

[00:08:58] This was wild for me because I actually had seen season two all the way first

[00:09:01] And then how to go back to season one to put it all together

[00:09:04] But yeah, let's go with Carla Baxter

[00:09:09] The one the only

[00:09:11] Number six herself from Battlestar Trisha Helver

[00:09:16] Uh, what do you think of this particular uh antagonist

[00:09:21] She's kind of using mind games and then

[00:09:25] Often threatening to kill his mom if he doesn't comply with her demand

[00:09:32] Uh

[00:09:35] I would say like uh, this was the first time that we see a villain that um

[00:09:41] Yeah, you don't realize that they're actually being

[00:09:45] It's like the end game of what they want Mike Michael to like my my go less than to be. This is what they you know

[00:09:52] Um, you actually get an insight now for the first time of like

[00:09:57] This is what this organization turns people into um

[00:10:00] You don't realize it you know right away. You just think that oh she must be like high ranking

[00:10:05] But when you really get spoil alert everybody when you really get into it they're like she's she's just

[00:10:10] Lo hanging fruit like a lot of these operatives are

[00:10:13] Right and then a good shot comes out and nowhere in her final appearance you're like wait

[00:10:17] There's someone else running calling the shots. I thought she was going to shot who killed who

[00:10:21] Oh

[00:10:26] And uh, I totally forgot that she employs this uh psychopathic sniper uh victor

[00:10:34] Like by Michael shanks from stargate

[00:10:39] He's the one who often like is

[00:10:41] Like having to do some hits with uh

[00:10:43] Michael Weston and then like at the end just like

[00:10:47] He's like no one is innocent. You're like whoa. This dude's playing God. This is messed up

[00:10:54] How's he gonna get out of this one

[00:10:58] Uh, I'm not sure if you guys remember him

[00:11:02] Yeah

[00:11:05] It's just like man

[00:11:07] Is this what we're out of the line work? Where do these roaches crawl?

[00:11:10] Ha

[00:11:13] This is the key coming out of

[00:11:16] Just the corner and you're just like uh

[00:11:18] Man Michael you got to get better at like doing a background check on these guys

[00:11:25] Oh

[00:11:27] I guess I'll do another one uh

[00:11:29] lo and behold uh philip

[00:11:32] My gnome is the smaller bearded guy who seems to imply that he doesn't really want to be here

[00:11:37] But management has like enforced him to just kind of just come into the picture

[00:11:43] It's played by Richard Schiff you guys might know as

[00:11:46] scientist rift and half in Jurassic Park 2 and Toby on the west wing

[00:11:55] You want me to send you guys a list of some of these bad guys?

[00:11:58] Oh, I have a lot of them pull up. I don't want to

[00:12:01] Yeah, I'm sorry if Johnathan has something wants to say

[00:12:04] Yeah

[00:12:08] I was trying to remember

[00:12:11] He he he didn't do a lot though. That's why he was the mollons

[00:12:15] Yeah, but I just find him interesting because like when they first introduced him

[00:12:19] You're like he's the big bad and then he's the kind of just a fog guy and he's like

[00:12:22] Please don't kill me even though maybe you do all these awful things

[00:12:27] Okay

[00:12:29] Yeah, I mean now

[00:12:31] Yeah, he only like

[00:12:34] He does some phone calls and stuff and like does some you know cat mouse but like

[00:12:38] um

[00:12:39] I think his purpose was to like

[00:12:42] String Michael underlaw a bit string Michael along but um

[00:12:46] I think it's the first time we get to see like

[00:12:48] He's really high rank and he is we know he is and then he just gets

[00:12:52] aced like

[00:12:55] And then you start you know like okay, wow. This is this is way bigger than

[00:13:02] What we've encountered

[00:13:04] Um, and I don't know if that's like the producer game where they're like, you know should be because it was season one

[00:13:10] So it was like um make it out

[00:13:12] We think the whole head we want to how do we want to end this or

[00:13:16] um

[00:13:18] Oh a dick wolf and shock everybody

[00:13:20] Hey

[00:13:21] He's not coming back after episode three

[00:13:24] What

[00:13:25] But it you're right. It could have been just the Dexter game is like hey wouldn't be wacky if he just like jumped off a building or

[00:13:32] Like wait what

[00:13:34] We thought he's supposed to save people and not be at the scene of a crime every other day

[00:13:40] Oh

[00:13:42] So

[00:13:44] It's all good. I'm just going through them because it's like they they all vary

[00:13:47] But it is kind of wild how half the time like

[00:13:51] They stand out I guess because you recognize them as an actor from another hit cable show

[00:13:56] Um, here's another one for you. We got uh

[00:13:59] Miami PDs Michelle Paxton like by move blood good you guys might know from T4 salvation and falling skies

[00:14:07] That she was so hard to read like when she comes in because you don't know if she's going to be like one of the other CIA agents

[00:14:13] who just like wants to capture Michael to make her career or if she's

[00:14:18] crooked and you don't know until the end but

[00:14:22] There's like that um Michelle Paxton

[00:14:25] Um

[00:14:28] Yeah, she's one of the few that was unpredictable

[00:14:32] Yes, you couldn't quite tell with it in the she would be a sex line and not oh god. I got it

[00:14:38] Yeah, she was wild too because this isn't like

[00:14:41] Yeah, at first she seems to be kind of interested by him and you're like oh here's this turned into a cheesy James Bond

[00:14:49] About face and you're like oh

[00:14:53] Michael you shouldn't have been so blind

[00:14:55] Don't you learn

[00:14:59] Yeah, yeah, she yeah she putt she's one of these I like to group her with the type of people who are like

[00:15:04] the um not the

[00:15:06] Not the baddies of the week but like

[00:15:09] The good guy baddies of uh uh of the season like who uh who get to play on you know

[00:15:15] They're they're the law, but they get to

[00:15:19] Use legal means to you know

[00:15:21] Fuck with them, but she she doesn't realize that she's probably being used like

[00:15:26] By management. That's a good fight. I didn't think about it

[00:15:29] She's just she's just come so like right

[00:15:33] She's gonna look in her little computer and say okay, yep. This guy's a bad guy. Look you just popped up on my list

[00:15:38] I'm gonna go after him or whatever

[00:15:42] It really goes to show like how far reaching

[00:15:45] That organization was

[00:15:48] That's a good point it does kind of have a big brother is watching you and like you say is like

[00:15:53] Half the time they're just the posing force but they're still

[00:15:56] He's either gonna have to use uh

[00:15:59] Career criminal who wants no trouble is just selling like illegal car parts

[00:16:04] But more often than not he often makes the accident of like stumbling into guys who were like

[00:16:09] Serial killers are selling just shy enormous amounts of like nougues

[00:16:17] Oh, man, um

[00:16:19] Yeah, she came up on one of the uh one a really good episode with um

[00:16:23] Oh, I don't know which who the actor was but it was the guy who uh the episode where um

[00:16:28] That low-ranking criminal wants to be he's trying to move up in his game

[00:16:32] And yeah, you know goes around bashing all the uh

[00:16:36] Pro dealers

[00:16:38] Um and they have a really touching moment where he's like you know, Michael's like you know

[00:16:41] I can get you kind of get some out of the whole game because he's like you know me to be honest you know and um

[00:16:47] Yeah

[00:16:48] And it helps that

[00:16:50] Fiona used to work with the IRA

[00:16:53] But then like left him when she realized hey they're technically terrorists

[00:16:56] I don't want to associations but she has all that firepower so she i lose track of how many times she and brisk

[00:17:02] Ambals character semax just get him out of these pickles

[00:17:06] Still gonna be true man this guy is gonna

[00:17:09] Hey, it's like a game of grimp that dot. Oh, it was like your your record is going up

[00:17:14] The heat is on baby. You got a next-it-stage right

[00:17:19] Yeah, it was the fearless leader episode it had um fierce

[00:17:24] Nicholas torturo is his name

[00:17:26] Oh, yeah, yeah, that's the guy who yeah

[00:17:29] He's the one. Yeah

[00:17:31] He's the very low-ranking guy who's trying to make it in and uh

[00:17:35] um

[00:17:37] And it's just cool to see like

[00:17:40] It's a part of Michael you start seeing where he's like this guy

[00:17:43] He's a bad guy but then his boss is even worse than a bad guy

[00:17:47] But technically that cop is a bad guy, but she's just doing her job so

[00:17:51] I don't want to like i'm gonna try and you know

[00:17:54] He does the little let's let's get these two to meet and then

[00:17:57] I'll get my back sort of thing

[00:18:00] Right so very sneaky

[00:18:06] Good point good point

[00:18:09] Yeah

[00:18:11] These are hard to one up

[00:18:15] Uh, I guess we can talk about um

[00:18:18] Another one uh

[00:18:20] The one the only uh Tom Strickler who you might know

[00:18:25] I think

[00:18:26] Uh been bin shinkman who has been

[00:18:30] I didn't recognize him. I got him mixed up with like a bunch of other guys

[00:18:33] He's done a lot of stuff like hpos angels in america and

[00:18:36] The child of the chicago seven but

[00:18:39] Yeah

[00:18:42] Uh, he's the guy who has also has dark shades and a pink uniform and

[00:18:48] Uh

[00:18:50] Hey, he he's pretty much just

[00:18:53] He's also in deep water. He's the one working with um a bunch of other guys

[00:18:58] Uh this oh Neil guy who also happens to be an IRA guy

[00:19:05] And Michael starts turning against him when he finds out oh hold up you're trying to kill my

[00:19:11] My pal you know that ain't cool

[00:19:14] Yeah

[00:19:17] Yeah, he's uh

[00:19:19] He's a big wheelie and dealer um definitely um

[00:19:23] I liked his character um he was kind of a dick but I i do wish he would have stuck around a little

[00:19:28] longer than three episodes because uh he was common relief that's true

[00:19:33] He was he was definitely plot far better than it was

[00:19:36] uh

[00:19:38] And the guy is he's working for uh paul black for and you might know him as um

[00:19:44] terrorist even sonders from 24 and uh the other uh

[00:19:48] CIA guy at the airport is auto santez who's been a bunch of stuff like odds

[00:19:54] It's just so wild how

[00:19:55] These guys it doesn't matter if they're just one episode you still kind of remember their face

[00:19:59] You're like surely they were on one of these action mystery shows

[00:20:03] You're having it up um

[00:20:06] But yeah, he's just always calm by a pool and it's just like uh

[00:20:10] Do you have no shame? Of course you don't

[00:20:14] Yeah, I mean he's

[00:20:18] How they describe him as an eight well he describes himself as as an agent for spies like um

[00:20:24] He

[00:20:25] He is kind of a weasel um in a different way like he he totally just wants to use

[00:20:30] Michael because he's like I can make some money out this guy, you know, right

[00:20:33] I think he completely underestimates just how much

[00:20:36] Michael cares

[00:20:39] So a lot of these

[00:20:41] Villains are are a lot like that it worked them last 20 times what's to keep me from

[00:20:47] Turning this guy on his head

[00:20:51] And of course they missed with the rug spy um

[00:20:54] And then we got

[00:20:57] Am I six agent and stickler cohort Mason go

[00:21:03] You might know this guy uh the patrariah chris vans from prison break

[00:21:08] You might also know him from being on the transporter tv show where he was the main lead on that

[00:21:12] It's just so wild how

[00:21:14] He just shows up. He's like I'm here to clean things up

[00:21:17] He's got that giant plane and he's trying to like

[00:21:23] Reap prisoner from there and he just keeps him rope and Michael and do it

[00:21:26] He's like hey, I need you to be my wingman. He's like uh

[00:21:30] I don't really want to do this but you kind of you know got it kind of my head so I can't say no

[00:21:37] Oh

[00:21:39] And

[00:21:41] It's just so wild he reminds me of um

[00:21:44] Who's that famous uh thief who

[00:21:48] Uh

[00:21:49] Disappeared in real life

[00:21:52] Uh dv Cooper he kind of reminds me of

[00:21:57] But if he was an MI6 agent

[00:22:04] Yeah, what's interesting about his character though is like

[00:22:07] I mean he was pretty dark for

[00:22:09] He was that one Clyde I think his name was Clyde

[00:22:12] I think he made that his where

[00:22:14] Michael you know sabotage him and he's like I'll just put him down and

[00:22:19] Towards the end of it, you know when he finally gets the you know he Simon is where you know breaks out and

[00:22:25] Shratt bonds bombs to him, you know

[00:22:29] He's really like oh shit. I guess I fucked up

[00:22:34] Michael

[00:22:38] That was a very good talk to him

[00:22:41] That was like a speeders

[00:22:43] Swarmfish type dead and you're like what

[00:22:46] Obbs

[00:22:51] And so wow that'll be he gets off on killing but he definitely just seems to just act like everybody's disposable and

[00:22:58] Everybody's a fool and he's hardy hard like

[00:23:01] The smartest guy and you're like man

[00:23:04] See it

[00:23:05] Someone didn't spank you the right way growing up

[00:23:08] Ha

[00:23:13] But yeah, when he gets to that airport you are just like man and this this guy is even more deadly than the agency is like how does he have all these contacts of ways to break in

[00:23:26] Oh

[00:23:29] What do we think about size more western's former mentor

[00:23:34] I

[00:23:37] Really like that guy

[00:23:40] The Madsen's been around forever and in house westwing

[00:23:44] um

[00:23:46] Every other just national anthem type movie often playing an idiot or a dish bag

[00:23:51] Just once again just hamming it up as a villain

[00:23:55] Oh, I am constantly doesn't make it to full and caught you

[00:24:00] It is kind of a cartoon yeah

[00:24:03] Definitely

[00:24:04] It isn't a full-acquat in like somehow some people would

[00:24:07] Some jails

[00:24:08] So it's just been around

[00:24:12] And that's not like he's not like governor from walking dead like no ridiculousness

[00:24:20] Yeah, now goes so far and pulls it back again

[00:24:23] That's true

[00:24:24] He doesn't feel like a screenwriter would say he doesn't feel like a plot device

[00:24:28] Like some underdeveloped characters. They're just to get a cheap reaction out of the audience

[00:24:34] The governor is a good example there's plenty of other

[00:24:37] spy crime and horrid dogs he shows that have some character where you're like

[00:24:42] He's trying to make me want to turn the channel off. What were you doing here?

[00:24:48] Yeah, he he is a guy that

[00:24:50] Like in a lot of shows when I

[00:24:52] Or stories and I'm very taken interest in them like

[00:24:55] And I want to watch it over and over and I always find out like I want to find out what happened to this person

[00:25:00] He's one of the few people in this series that get that can give you insight

[00:25:06] Or is willing to give you insight

[00:25:08] About Michael and what it used to be like sand doesn't want to talk about it. Fiona doesn't really want to talk about it

[00:25:14] It's very rare that anyone on his side talks about it, but he he digs it up

[00:25:18] And I love the flashbacks when they that you start seeing that

[00:25:23] Yeah

[00:25:25] That he had some nerve to even like use michael's alias

[00:25:30] It's like admit it always may be wonder is that also why he kept coming up extra on the grid like anytime michael's like

[00:25:37] forged card wouldn't

[00:25:40] You know like work or something is like was he also using an account of his at the same time simultaneously

[00:25:48] This is like cuz man that's just dangerous

[00:25:55] But it was like there was a few times where he kind of fell into this like father figure with michael and

[00:26:04] And even though

[00:26:06] For the wrong reasons, but oh yeah eventually got to the point where I think I think he caught on and he's like

[00:26:13] You know, he's more than is he's like okay

[00:26:15] You don't you don't really want to be the old Michael. I kind of so I'm just gonna use you like everybody else

[00:26:20] He's you but for a long time there he he he really had a hard time like hurting him or like

[00:26:25] He thought maybe he could change him back or whatever right

[00:26:29] Right me figure he's a brainwash marine. I can probably tap into him since I got some military expertise, but that's now organs

[00:26:39] Abandoned ship

[00:26:41] He was good

[00:26:44] And of course he works with me one the only arms dealer Tyler Brennan played by Jay Carn from the shield

[00:26:53] That guy I thought was actually

[00:26:57] Was when the wheel of threats to michael

[00:27:00] Every other movie. I see him and he's often a police officer

[00:27:04] But this is one of the few guest spots of scene a man where he is just like an unnerving villain where he's just like

[00:27:10] You don't have to seem stab anyone to know oh he

[00:27:14] He's very very very very deadly and you need to get out of there now

[00:27:21] Oh

[00:27:22] Yeah, he was ruthless um

[00:27:26] He's got all these offshore cows and these hey he he's willing to kill everybody but oh my daughter

[00:27:32] Oh my lovely daughter and about should be fine

[00:27:35] It's like

[00:27:37] But

[00:27:40] You're killing all these other people

[00:27:43] But yeah, I think he yeah, I think he learned that like that

[00:27:49] There's so so there's only so far you could have pushed michael and then when he you know

[00:27:54] decided to hurt Nate it was like

[00:27:57] um

[00:27:59] How he how he cornered

[00:28:01] Brennan was like like oh yeah got it

[00:28:03] Got him right

[00:28:05] Sam Max gets to do a bunch of fun uh squaring off with them too

[00:28:12] Uh for scamble scaragers for those not following because

[00:28:16] It's so funny now Sam will come in here and somehow not blow up anybody but

[00:28:22] Much like his you know ash Williams persona. It's just so just funny to see him just come in and just

[00:28:28] All of a sudden bombs are going off and you're like yeah, I'm thinking

[00:28:32] I'm thinking sam's in town right now

[00:28:36] Oh

[00:28:39] Oh

[00:28:42] So uh there's plenty of other shady guys um

[00:28:46] Uh what about the one the only head behind drake technologies

[00:28:52] John Barrett

[00:28:56] 21,000 Robert Patrick

[00:28:58] I

[00:29:01] I asked when the few that

[00:29:03] I wish was actually on longer than he was yeah too short

[00:29:08] I thought he was gonna be the main main main season vatty and he was kind of just more of the shadowy guy

[00:29:17] Still a standout in season four because to be fair at that point um

[00:29:22] I think we're still trying to get over how michael's on the run from vaughan anderson the

[00:29:27] uh

[00:29:28] mysterious

[00:29:30] guy who's you know

[00:29:32] Gets michael out of prison and asks him to do all these other shady, you know

[00:29:35] Spy and arms dealing and you're like what who's playing who now again

[00:29:42] Uh fun fact uh Brandon I was listening to uh michael rozenbombs

[00:29:48] Uh podcast inside of you and john's heard this episode too uh he was interviewing Robert Patrick

[00:29:53] And Patrick actually said that his favorite role of the date is uh john doggan from the ex files

[00:30:00] And his favorite filmmaker talent worked with was uh James mangled but yeah uh

[00:30:08] It's always fun, but I think um

[00:30:10] I think sorry so i think

[00:30:14] His his character gets overshadowed by this this point in a series because if you remember this is

[00:30:20] This is right when jesse finds out that you got burned by michael and now you have

[00:30:25] And i you have jesse

[00:30:27] He's the enemy now and he's like

[00:30:30] He's almost like michael 2.0 in a lot of ways with his talents

[00:30:33] And so and he's even a little bit more reckless um

[00:30:37] Especially when he's like okay now i'm just i'm gonna kill this guy

[00:30:41] So i think that's probably why as a villain he doesn't get as much recognition because this whole time

[00:30:47] You're like oh my god is is this guy gonna is he gonna kill michael or is he going to you know

[00:30:53] Be a problem forever your or what's going on uh in plus we got marve and jessian wall

[00:30:59] So the other like counter agents

[00:31:02] At this point it's like

[00:31:04] Imagine playing a chess game, but then there's like two other sides on the same board

[00:31:11] Eventually you're gonna collide and you're gonna want to pretty much win the game by

[00:31:15] either forfeiting or

[00:31:17] Just getting out quicker

[00:31:23] But yeah, they are

[00:31:25] It's it's pretty good at avoiding feeling convoluted but at the same time like man i don't know how anyone's gonna survive

[00:31:36] And then miche 7 to keep his younger brother Nate

[00:31:40] You know safe also

[00:31:45] Yeah

[00:31:47] It definitely felt like he was just that drake was drake's

[00:31:50] Direct analogies like it that it felt like it was just kind of a bridge just to like get somewhere um

[00:31:57] I don't know hey it felt like it could have been

[00:32:01] Um they did that a lot though in the series

[00:32:04] They'll have these many arcs and then like i just to get to the next point the next dramatic thing and then

[00:32:09] We'll use them throw them away

[00:32:10] And i guess that's what you can do when you have like the shadow of organization there's gonna be another one and another one

[00:32:16] They're right

[00:32:17] At least Nate's son is being raised by uncle mike

[00:32:23] Somewhere but yeah, there's many times where it's like people show up and you're like

[00:32:27] And there must have been a schedule conflict

[00:32:30] Or maybe the writers didn't know what to do with it so they just ended it

[00:32:32] But good point i totally forgot about how jessie

[00:32:36] Gets turned and

[00:32:38] That they go back in for just now we're working together now i'm a hate you again now

[00:32:42] I'm gonna work with you again now i'm now i'm definitely

[00:32:47] Want you dead?

[00:32:50] Oh so much running

[00:32:54] Uh

[00:32:56] Yeah

[00:32:57] And just keeps going and going and going um

[00:33:01] I guess i better throw out uh Simon

[00:33:04] He's the main instigator

[00:33:06] Much like Carla

[00:33:08] Yeah, you keep thinking he's the main main guy. He's like off the grid

[00:33:11] He may not even be working for management

[00:33:14] But it's tough to tell because he's a psychopathic liar

[00:33:19] so

[00:33:20] It's like

[00:33:21] I can't trust any lie he says because when is he not lying

[00:33:25] He's the one i've always said that that's who my go could have turned into

[00:33:32] If

[00:33:35] Have you ever heard of the fan theory that comes Russian

[00:33:37] Have you ever heard of the fan theory that russian prime lawyer lord uh roman

[00:33:43] Might be the same person as Simon

[00:33:47] Interesting both are played by garrard dillard that's the joke yeah

[00:33:51] Which is so weird because i recall his russian guy actually dying so

[00:33:56] Oh

[00:33:57] Yes, Simon

[00:34:00] I mean you don't realize how like important he is the story to you find out that it was it was his

[00:34:08] It was his um actions that got put on to michael which got him burned

[00:34:12] Um

[00:34:14] Which it always made me wonder like

[00:34:17] I mean i guess i guess it's possible you can fudge details with that but like

[00:34:22] Michael had been in the

[00:34:24] Military and the CIA for years and years you would think i mean

[00:34:28] I don't know maybe it's just because government is just like way we got the notice that's it

[00:34:32] We got to follow through it's not like

[00:34:34] I'm just very surprised that there's not like all these people who work with them and like

[00:34:38] But it's not like michael at all that's very escalated a bus full of both

[00:34:44] Like just kind of

[00:34:46] It's not a deep show in that respect but it does kind of just

[00:34:50] Kind of just on officially just state hey these guys are tools

[00:34:55] Even if we know you we're gonna treat everyone as an enemy just a minute you get a red flag on your profile

[00:35:02] Uh, and even if it's just something ridiculous like shoot on site

[00:35:05] And it's kind of just in a way pretty much just says don't trust the CIA

[00:35:10] And it's just so weird though because this one at times even makes me feel like they're acting more like the NSA where

[00:35:16] It's not just the if you're captured we disown you or you have to find a way to escape

[00:35:22] Because your coverage blowing they're pretty much like well

[00:35:24] We're gonna send a sassence of silence you because

[00:35:27] You're afraid to us now and it's like really so much for all this government spending

[00:35:35] Uh

[00:35:37] And he was he was a good villain on and he was sometimes he was over the top

[00:35:41] But I think that was probably

[00:35:43] Maybe it was intentional because you know he's like the reverse Michael

[00:35:46] He actually enjoyed his life of being this ultra-terrorist who is really a bad guy

[00:35:52] And he was actually he's like pissed that he lost his

[00:35:56] Life and he would want that back

[00:35:58] um

[00:35:59] And I just remember when they met in you in that electronic store or whatever

[00:36:03] And he was like good you can have your life back. I want to give it to you or whatever

[00:36:08] Um, and that really heartfelt moment whenever he does catch him and uh

[00:36:11] He he comes in later and he's talking with um his mom and he's like

[00:36:18] Um

[00:36:19] He's in tears, you know, you don't see western cry a lot on screen, but he was like he you know

[00:36:24] He said I just beat I would be just like him. It would be a matter of time before him just like him

[00:36:29] And that's where I start to realize like

[00:36:32] Um

[00:36:33] Is is Michael just like him because you know you have all these hints up on the way like size more says as he was just like that

[00:36:39] He was worse than that actually

[00:36:41] Yeah

[00:36:42] Because he's already

[00:36:43] Michael's already heard of becoming like his mentor

[00:36:47] And so to have Simon be using similar tactics like him just

[00:36:52] This makes him even more insecure at times and you can't and it helps for the drama on the action side of things too

[00:36:58] and

[00:37:00] It is

[00:37:01] Simon in a way almost kind of makes me reminds me of like an ISIS kind of terrorist, you know

[00:37:06] The

[00:37:07] Management created him and then they pretty much disowned him when he went too far and so then it's like

[00:37:15] He but see the difference is he's able to kind of always just like get out of trouble and like be a chameleon and

[00:37:22] Somehow he does it even though he's like a wanted man. He's not as one of his Michael who's like, you know

[00:37:29] That just shows you how the agency's kind of all worried about appearances versus going after a high-riskier target

[00:37:38] Oh, but yeah, Simon is freaky and that is true

[00:37:43] It just is a good

[00:37:45] Counter-villain for Michael because you know

[00:37:48] When this guy is just constantly just

[00:37:51] Uh goofing up at every angle of your plan, you know, it's just

[00:37:57] It's just very overwhelming

[00:38:02] Yeah, there's a lot of story that hinges on him. I mean he was used to

[00:38:05] Because he helped Michael for a little while um to help him break down the ordinary

[00:38:11] He's the one who actually led to him getting the list that would help bring down everything which is why

[00:38:16] Drake, you know wanted to intercept him

[00:38:18] But then at the point whenever he was found to be like the A team on

[00:38:25] At in season seven any fine

[00:38:27] Michael finds out that his handler has hired him. He's like

[00:38:31] That's where it really started breaking. He's like why am I doing this?

[00:38:34] If they're willing to use these type of people to get the job done

[00:38:37] um

[00:38:38] And I'm with them then where's the line and uh right

[00:38:43] Yeah

[00:38:45] And this is before he goes after the main main big bad

[00:38:48] Anson played by Jarburns a max headroom and

[00:38:52] Justified fame. He was like one by the way Michael. I did kill your dad

[00:38:57] It was a spy like you and you're like, oh really dude

[00:39:00] Really

[00:39:03] Oh man yet. Anson Anson was really that was a really good intro like they got him into the series really good

[00:39:09] Like I didn't I didn't see that comment. I told already man and

[00:39:14] Simon's messing with us all the dutter guys are messing with you Fiona and Sam or not sure if they want to continue with the team and

[00:39:21] Like still gotta keep his mom safe

[00:39:27] And

[00:39:28] Part of it I felt for it because it was like I still remember justified

[00:39:32] So yes, so he was this you just kind of as weasel of a of a villain there. So it was like

[00:39:38] So seeing him as like this weakling psychology like that tracks

[00:39:44] You know

[00:39:46] And flipped it on us

[00:39:48] But yeah, it's like I don't think they want that on this show

[00:39:52] And

[00:39:54] Wouldn't have it any other way it is like he

[00:39:57] If there's any reason to just just like him immediately and just root for his come up and say that's that's the way to go

[00:40:06] Yeah, when he he does transition though to one of like you know

[00:40:12] It's a villain throughout the series but you never get to learn much and that isn't like oh's dad like

[00:40:17] He he gives you the insight of like what his dad is actually like and

[00:40:23] I mean you kind of get the idea, you know because he's you know he's abusive alcoholic and all the stuff and

[00:40:34] Yeah, it's totally fucked up how he plays on

[00:40:37] Klankles past like that and how he could get so close to him and

[00:40:42] Yeah

[00:40:45] All these guys man

[00:40:48] Yeah, and he didn't feel like like when they had that one guy where the like beginning of season won't five where they're like

[00:40:54] We kind of all track down and that one guy's last guy ever and he shot himself or whatever

[00:41:00] And he's like why did you do that? I don't know and then it didn't feel like

[00:41:03] That type of a guy where it's like yeah, you know we're

[00:41:08] Well, we almost got him all but here's this guy. This guy actually kind of made sense

[00:41:11] He you know he had a really good backstory and

[00:41:16] It was just really really interesting

[00:41:19] Yeah, and that is true. He didn't feel like just a one-off like hey at the end of this conversation

[00:41:27] He's gonna be dead and it's like no

[00:41:29] He's gonna be brooding in the background and

[00:41:32] The hero's gonna have to take

[00:41:35] Five to seven more episodes figuring out

[00:41:38] Just

[00:41:39] What went wrong and how he can get out of this pickle

[00:41:43] Especially without letting the emotion get to him

[00:41:51] And there's so many other people who you don't expect him to just like turn on a miter

[00:41:58] Uh, I meant to also bring up I guess

[00:42:02] Some of the interteriors organization that he takes down in season seven

[00:42:08] Uh, you might remember

[00:42:12] I think it was

[00:42:15] Now it's not it

[00:42:18] Yeah, okay so it was Sonia and then there was uh

[00:42:24] Uh, James James Kendrick and they're the slotted America terrorist group

[00:42:30] And pretty much that they're the ones in the final season who Michael has to take down or to get immunity by management

[00:42:38] And

[00:42:39] There's just so wild how they too. I've been pretty much

[00:42:42] Playing all the other thieves and CIA guys for a fool too, so it's like man however this ends someone's gonna get hurt

[00:42:52] Yeah, it's a perfect organization

[00:42:55] How they all because you

[00:42:58] They are terrorists and they go above the wall to get things done

[00:43:01] But they also do it in a way that

[00:43:04] Um because the whole thing was born out of James Kendrick having

[00:43:08] Um to do these missions that were like

[00:43:11] Really underhanded and like this is not what we're supposed to be doing is killing innocent people whatever and he creates

[00:43:16] He's

[00:43:17] He's like the unofficial organization

[00:43:20] of like what

[00:43:23] burned Michael in the first place

[00:43:25] But these guys are trying to do that same thing um

[00:43:29] And it is really wild where they blur the lines between like you know, for a while though

[00:43:34] You think you know is is Michael really gonna go into this is he gonna is this where he's gonna um

[00:43:42] Uh

[00:43:43] You know fall in line with this and it this

[00:43:47] This was not I mean in it has been around obviously

[00:43:49] But it wasn't during that when this was going on like on the air

[00:43:53] There wasn't a lot of you didn't get like a lot of spoilers of like

[00:43:58] So and so says he doesn't agree for the next season

[00:44:00] So we know this is the last one because yeah, we know this actor in this actor won

[00:44:04] During that time you're like this and they might still keep going. I don't know

[00:44:09] Will they renew it? I don't know but you don't know until yet there

[00:44:14] um

[00:44:16] He

[00:44:17] Yeah, James Kendrick was so Sonya was kind of like I mean she was like a um

[00:44:24] Like a negative version of uh

[00:44:26] Fiona in a way um

[00:44:29] You know, I think she was used as a as a tool in that in the storyline for that

[00:44:34] Yeah

[00:44:36] James Kendrick though like

[00:44:39] That that that that villain was

[00:44:42] I really loved how he was he was compassionate. He was this weird like compassionate dude

[00:44:48] But also like I got a job to do but

[00:44:52] Yeah, I'm here for you man

[00:44:54] Yeah, Peter Ferguson is made a living just playing tough to read guys and

[00:44:59] You don't know if they're loyal or villainous until pretty much the final frame

[00:45:03] He's been on everything from briscoe county and battle star 2

[00:45:07] There's a Bruce Kenville connection as well

[00:45:10] Like train on the track

[00:45:15] Hey

[00:45:18] uh and

[00:45:20] Yeah, and it's it almost it's wildhounder in Latin America

[00:45:25] It almost kind of brings degrees to me of kind of like the Bay of Pigs how

[00:45:29] The CIA has made a living just goofing up under countries that they fear are going to be more powerful than the United States

[00:45:36] And these guys are pretty much doing spy method

[00:45:40] Honestical activities, but then doing it for other revolutionary stuff for their own cause and you're like man

[00:45:46] so

[00:45:47] Everybody's lines are blurred like you say he's like well uh, I just hope Michael survives this

[00:45:56] Those

[00:45:58] They all had passion and all these awful things they're doing so I can't

[00:46:02] Call them just mindless terrors but at the same time they're still terrorists

[00:46:09] Well, so I would be a miss if I did not mention uh

[00:46:13] Uh thief uh and x spy Rebecca Lang like by the tx from t free herself Christina Logan

[00:46:24] It's just so wild how it is like she and Michael are trying to steal some stuff

[00:46:28] And then she's like I got a different plan. He's pulled the mag gun point. You're like what what

[00:46:37] Oh

[00:46:43] This is where I had to catch up on the show at that point. I'm like she's got some awesome star power now

[00:46:52] Uh once again another person who has like bombs on her at all times

[00:46:57] Uh, she was um

[00:47:01] She was one of those people like if I remember I think she was in the CIA

[00:47:04] I think she was actually yeah, I think she was still active uh until

[00:47:09] Until basically she had to pull the trigger and be like

[00:47:13] You know or sure brother dies or whatever

[00:47:17] Yeah, she had a better name Trent. Yeah

[00:47:21] Definitely a deceiver

[00:47:24] All these people are very unexpected you never really know

[00:47:28] Uh like

[00:47:31] Even what the greater scheme is like it's more than just hey, you know, I got this agenda

[00:47:37] I got this I'm doing revenge on that and everything is like they got all kinds of things that

[00:47:44] Uh, you don't

[00:47:46] Yeah, like to even predict it would be pointless. You know, it's gonna be just something out of the

[00:47:52] One for the ride um

[00:47:55] I guess I could mention uh the commandant day uh very cruise from the same axe

[00:48:01] Freak will movie played by

[00:48:03] Mandalorian himself federal Pascal

[00:48:07] For weeks I I've only seen them that movie just a couple

[00:48:10] It's still on her low

[00:48:12] I said yeah, a couple hundred times perfect

[00:48:19] Yeah

[00:48:21] He was a good villain. I mean he he was star power

[00:48:23] I think at this point because I think uh I think he was didn't was he

[00:48:27] He wasn't on narko's yet but he was getting there

[00:48:30] Has he did he do his Game of Thrones episode yet? Was it he on there?

[00:48:34] I was I think I think that was two years later

[00:48:37] But he was definitely I think like many investors they knew he was on the rise. He was big doing plays and everything

[00:48:45] Guess starring on every other New York based TV show and so they're like yeah, we got to get him

[00:48:52] But it was so funny when I looked up his resume, you know as soon as his star, you know, I just third or fourth

[00:48:59] Shall we say even fifth you know stage of the career you know because under game of frozen

[00:49:03] He did grace land dark goes then model and then I was like okay. I think I understand why he's big now

[00:49:11] And but when I saw that on his

[00:49:15] Resume I instantly like put two and two together. I was like oh, that's right

[00:49:20] So that's just how empowering he was in that I mean he's not even the main villain, but it's just so funny seeing him

[00:49:28] via commando type

[00:49:30] You know big bad that you'd see in probably an 80s movie

[00:49:36] Yeah

[00:49:47] Well, what I will say though is about patreon piscoles character there

[00:49:50] I mean, I think he kind of suffers from the drake technology

[00:49:53] And level stuff because he was a good villain and he was a you know, he didn't remind me a lot of like if you watch a lot

[00:49:59] I'm a guy or a lot of 18 the

[00:50:04] But unfortunately the real villain of that episode was the the navy admiral who is oh yeah, you know pinching sam acts to get into this mess

[00:50:15] You just want to hate that guy because you're like this guy is a hero, you know and yeah

[00:50:20] He slept with your wife whatever, you know takes two

[00:50:23] um

[00:50:25] Your wife also found somebody

[00:50:27] You know, so it's not just him but right and he's and he's a warmongers. Oh, you're like

[00:50:32] It's not who I think we should be supporting, but

[00:50:36] He is yeah, he's roped sam into doing this thing for him and you're like good lord

[00:50:42] I hope he can survive this and put this guy on trial

[00:50:47] Oh

[00:50:49] Yeah, it's it's insane

[00:50:53] But I like a lot of the burn notice villains though that I like the most were the ones who were like

[00:50:58] They started out as a villain and then they

[00:51:01] Whether or not they wanted to or not they became assets of Michael like I like sugar. I'm like come alodonte

[00:51:08] Oh my god all these

[00:51:11] individuals who

[00:51:14] And he he just finds a way to make them like have to work for him

[00:51:21] Um, I so forgot about sugar. He is insane

[00:51:26] Oh tape makes you smart

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[00:52:47] Captain America versus Darth Vader solid stake versus the iron giant classic matchups like Robocop versus Terminator

[00:52:54] And even the muppets versus Sesame Street that one was crazy

[00:52:59] So if you're a fan of geek culture and love is better to debate check out the who would win show wherever you get your podcast

[00:53:05] We're checking us out at who would win show dot com

[00:53:07] So I was just thinking we could talk about John steam again ladies character Tom card his sniper pal

[00:53:13] And uh santa shan from the wires CIA gal thank god for wikaz

[00:53:18] Is like to say it's in to forget who have the villains are on every other SVU dexter type show

[00:53:25] This what do they do again? Oh, that's right. They did that unforgettable thing

[00:53:30] Yeah, like those people who can make these wiki fandom things

[00:53:35] They're the best like I love it too when it's like it's even more comedic

[00:53:39] Like I saw someone who had labeled Mike Nelson from mr. science theater and a far scape character as a war criminal

[00:53:45] I'm like well to be fair they did accidentally blow up a planet

[00:53:52] I guess that counts

[00:53:54] Well, I guess in order of I guess how it goes down

[00:53:57] I mean, I think Tyler graze the I think that's the first person they meet um where it might be

[00:54:03] I can't remember anywhere. I see there are liviars take kind of great one of the two but they they kind of go back and forth

[00:54:09] But they're all ironic coincidentally, they're they're really connected to where this is like whoa

[00:54:16] And they

[00:54:19] Like so basically you know at first

[00:54:22] Uh

[00:54:23] Tyler's we think is going to be the main main guy going after him, but he answers to again Tom

[00:54:29] John seam again lays character who's you know westerns

[00:54:32] former mentor and then western, you know does the unthinkable and actually has to cross the line and

[00:54:39] Uh

[00:54:41] But yeah, he just decides. You know what I'm on my vengeance

[00:54:45] I'm gonna go out and just kill Tom. I have nothing to lose now and then Olivia of course

[00:54:50] We think oh she's a goody goody two shoes and it's like wrong again. She's another crooked CIA good

[00:54:55] and

[00:54:57] Tyler

[00:54:59] I mean his story starts like with one of the most heart-wrenching

[00:55:03] Like parts in the entire show where because Nate western dies and he's the one who shot him, but you don't know that when it happens

[00:55:10] You just you know they go through all this you know kind of a typical camera trickery where you see a sniper cross there

[00:55:16] And you're like wait. Who is that? And then he's just gone. There's just a giant hole in him in the side

[00:55:21] And then it's like oh wow that is really you know, I wasn't expecting it at all like

[00:55:26] Yeah, when that came out like I think

[00:55:30] Because of the internet

[00:55:31] I think there was some rumors that someone's gonna die on the show

[00:55:33] But I didn't look at that stuff. So I had no idea that was coming when I was watching out

[00:55:36] Oh my god

[00:55:37] Absolutely much like Chuck and even McGyver is like the show is so campy that you for that

[00:55:43] When it does actually get emotional you never expect it

[00:55:47] Yeah, it hit chart and then at that point I was like oh my god. I'm paying that was

[00:55:53] So I get and it led to a lot of good scenes like that scene where he's with

[00:55:59] Michael's mom

[00:56:00] With with Madeline and she's yeah, she wants to confront him and and you could tell I mean this is after obviously

[00:56:07] They've learned that he's been under the thumb of Tom card and you know

[00:56:12] He's being used like Michael's being used

[00:56:14] And then you actually see that this guy is not

[00:56:17] He's not really a bad guy

[00:56:20] He's just doing his work and he thought that he was doing good work as Tom card said it was good work

[00:56:26] Right, it was brainwashed and thinking oh Michael's a terrorist kill his family. Oh

[00:56:31] He's not a terrorist. He's just a guy we don't like

[00:56:34] And Madeline, you know

[00:56:36] Next time you know their name before you pull that trigger and slap some across the face

[00:56:39] There's awesome

[00:56:41] Yeah

[00:56:42] That felt rewarding and

[00:56:45] Kudu is to Kenny Johnson who again, he's been on sons of anarchy the shield

[00:56:51] I think the reason he plays this so well is he's used to playing characters who are just hard to define

[00:56:58] It was like they're technically on the bad side but they're not meaning anything wrong

[00:57:03] and

[00:57:04] So therefore you give a little suspense is he gonna redeem himself in some capacity and

[00:57:11] Uh, yeah

[00:57:13] Seeing him react to how brainwash he's become is a very good acting

[00:57:18] Yep

[00:57:19] And uh with sons of Sean where were you already and you already seen HBO's the wire

[00:57:24] No, I have them actually. Oh, okay. Now it's fine. I just found it interesting how she's another one of those New York L.A.

[00:57:31] Character actors who's just like she can do a serious thing or a campy show

[00:57:35] She's done plenty of other stuff too like Scorsese movies and

[00:57:39] 2000 shaft and she's the she's Burnham's

[00:57:43] A strain mother time traveling mother on Star Trek Discovery, but

[00:57:47] Yeah, um, I think she did well in here because you just think oh she's good at goody two

[00:57:52] She was like nope just like Tom. She's been compromised and she's just using his death as an excuse to do her own get rich quick scheme

[00:58:01] Yeah, and they do a good job of uh, I mean they lay it on

[00:58:06] Standoff on the boats in the beginning. They're like you know, they're like she's a counter intelligence agent

[00:58:11] And she knows all these tricks so you gotta be careful and then they know that same with her and

[00:58:16] She is really good and I'm like oh man, this is serious business. And she's really like she turns it to 11

[00:58:21] And yeah, you know, I just thought you know, she's just being a fucking cop being a cop. She's you know being really

[00:58:27] You know, she really wants to close this but you know as we find out it's actually more than that she has

[00:58:33] She's trade her country

[00:58:35] and

[00:58:36] For money or whatever and so

[00:58:40] No, that's true. I

[00:58:43] And just when she's facing off with him on the boat. I just like how she instead of just taking it up to over the top acting in 11

[00:58:50] She's just pretty much as like did you seriously think you knew us?

[00:58:55] You're a CIA guy and I got to screwed. I got to dendor rights

[00:58:59] It was a clip so because it really it was one of those episodes which he gets caught when she finally gets busted by Michael

[00:59:06] It's one of those episodes where he uh, he goes into that little kind of monologue where he's like

[00:59:11] I like it when he teaches you a little some things like it looks behind the curtain. Yeah

[00:59:15] People think people think the Coast Guard is like the Navy's little sister and uh, you know

[00:59:20] They're not really all that strong

[00:59:21] But they actually are branch of the military. They have battleships. They have you know, um and he shows

[00:59:27] You know what they can do and you know, lures are into basically a trap

[00:59:30] And he's like I'm ready to die. Are you all right? And he just turns out the radio

[00:59:36] I'm like that's awesome

[00:59:39] Yeah, very unexpected here is like oh we're gonna do this okay

[00:59:45] man

[00:59:49] But it was eye-opening um and I guess they kind of just leads us to just some other just one-off characters because there's a bunch of them out there

[00:59:58] And there were plenty of them like especially Mark Shepherd and

[01:00:03] He might know from supernatural

[01:00:05] Carl Spanard played a ex-con in one you might know him as Tony Elmator from 24

[01:00:10] uh

[01:00:11] I think it was around season three or four and

[01:00:15] Now probably free and he he had fionus truss and fionus was of course just doing an undercover op for him

[01:00:21] He's like no, no, I can't do this. I can't go back to Jill and

[01:00:25] It was interesting how oh he played Gilroy. Okay, I was trying to yeah, yeah, yeah, I know face okay. It's been a minute. I know

[01:00:35] It was interesting how is like a lot of these one-off characters

[01:00:39] They really could go anywhere

[01:00:44] But I applaud him for for wanting to do something like that because

[01:00:49] uh it just

[01:00:51] I kind of kept the show a little

[01:00:54] Uh stronger by just showing hey not all these guys are just stupid forward agents with a bunch of guns and

[01:01:01] ready to die

[01:01:04] Some of them actually want to do good and others are just

[01:01:09] criminals by a career but not by choice, you know

[01:01:14] Yeah, um if anything uh

[01:01:19] How would you

[01:01:22] uh

[01:01:23] If you were to introduce this uh someone, you know, obviously it's still on Hulu and you can probably buy from just about anywhere else

[01:01:30] Uh, how would you introduce them to this?

[01:01:33] I guess it would have to be I'd have to know the age group that i'm talking to because if they if they're kind of my age

[01:01:40] I would definitely point out that it feels a lot like a guyver and a team and that kind of uh, you know

[01:01:46] That

[01:01:48] crossover of where the it has this elite group of people who always have to come up with unique ways of solving problems um and

[01:01:58] But if if it's just anybody, I would say you know if you like i mean if you like dramas and you like

[01:02:03] Action, I mean you're gonna love this show there. It's just

[01:02:06] You can't beat the

[01:02:08] Jeffrey Donovan is such an amazing actor and Bruce Campbell is right there with them and it's it's insane

[01:02:14] The are you those two brimson thing did Gabriel M. War, you know, this is one of those other gals who's just been in everything and

[01:02:21] again um yeah

[01:02:23] Please not on Sharon

[01:02:25] It's her name oh yeah

[01:02:27] Sharon I share in glass from cagging lacy

[01:02:30] Yeah, and I like tell they snuck in her cagging lacy co-star tine daily as a bank receptionist

[01:02:36] Like there you go

[01:02:38] No one except people watch 80s shows are gonna get that

[01:02:45] But you and the same network though, I mean

[01:02:47] they

[01:02:49] You know they pump out good stuff. I know they they get kind of flat because they're like this

[01:02:53] You know second rate cable company or whatever but they put out good content so they they come a long way from campy

[01:03:02] Period all night

[01:03:03] Yeah, I'll pull nine silk stockings

[01:03:06] I was surprisingly never did a crossover with munker

[01:03:09] uh

[01:03:10] psych but I mean

[01:03:12] Yeah, after they did tv show short-lived tv show spin-offs of both their purge and born identity saga

[01:03:18] I think universe is gonna keep

[01:03:20] Twisting the novel a little more keep

[01:03:23] Experimenting because they they've done some other ambitious ones and many series that are criminally forgotten as sometimes the ratings don't always work

[01:03:32] My sister actually joked for a while that suits or white collar could across door with burnouts. You know

[01:03:37] Yeah, it was they it was kind of that whole thing pick a equalizer kind of formula someone's on the run and

[01:03:46] just

[01:03:48] Action

[01:03:49] Let go go haywire go apesit

[01:03:52] I think would also make his shit that show like blow up is like before that came out

[01:03:57] I mean you basically had a sea of

[01:04:01] um

[01:04:02] Law and orders right uh

[01:04:04] Procedureals of just pops this pops that and you know

[01:04:09] I'm not begging on the shield or like NYPD blue or any in NCIS you know

[01:04:15] We had to do what t and t and yeah, it's kind of so you had and it's like can we get something that

[01:04:22] Isn't just cops like I know he's kind of like he's not a cop. It spies not a cop

[01:04:27] But he worked for the government

[01:04:28] But he you know in his story he had to basically be the good guy

[01:04:34] But was treated like the bad guy and absolutely

[01:04:37] It was at the perfect time

[01:04:39] The closer it was actually daring to do something never the most cops shows but I have fraud for notice for trying to do not only

[01:04:45] Something different with a spy formula, but

[01:04:48] Show how the world is kind of gray and its whole

[01:04:52] Timeline while also reminding you to have fun because for a while it seemed like hey

[01:04:56] Let's have another shocking show like the sopranos and it was like yeah, but

[01:05:00] We're just distracted by how cool the Gore is and the plots really

[01:05:06] I'll get better uh

[01:05:08] But I mean

[01:05:10] Yeah anytime Donovan shows up in a project whether it's the true crime film by Clint Eastwood uh change laying or

[01:05:18] Some other dick wolf Tom Fontaner production or I mean he had a similar show like this that was kind of like falling down

[01:05:25] Indexer call called shut I

[01:05:27] Yeah, I remember that all right

[01:05:29] I promise we'll do a special on it and

[01:05:32] It was interesting too how is like I saw how he was he made the list of highest paid TV actors

[01:05:38] Kevin Costum was making like 30 million in episode of Yellowstone

[01:05:44] So that tells me everyone else can shit like 15 to 400 in episode not not hurt

[01:05:50] I can't say I'm cool with that kind of treatment but whatever

[01:05:54] Um, but I saw that he made he was starting to make like

[01:05:58] 10,000,000 in episode so it was like okay. I mean, I'm sorry, but Jeffery don't

[01:06:02] You're gonna have to say it is a better actor than Kevin Coffin. Yeah

[01:06:07] I'm just gonna say it. He just is

[01:06:09] Well, and that's the problem too is like

[01:06:12] I think Yellowstone was already gonna make money because yeah

[01:06:15] It was just a twisted mixture of Western and gangster shows but

[01:06:19] It was wild how they bet it on an actor was pretty much been in the same zone

[01:06:25] All his career romantically baseball lead cowboy okay, and he's none of these things what

[01:06:33] In this well

[01:06:36] I don't know I it would be interesting if they did a documentary on talent managers

[01:06:41] How did you slap some sense into your

[01:06:44] Celebrity on hey, you should take more acting lessons now that your looks have dried up

[01:06:49] Hey, how would you do this kind of show because no one takes you seriously as that anymore

[01:06:54] I wish the more would I wish more of them of those actors um instead of trying to act like they're washed up

[01:07:01] Pull the Martin the Martin short route and then

[01:07:04] You know, find your friend Steve Martin go make a new TV show there you go

[01:07:09] You know that has no it doesn't matter about their age they can put it into their into the storyline and it's funny, so

[01:07:16] Right and how ironic that to tie in with that show they have a podcast

[01:07:21] recapping every episode of only murders in the building like oh now that's even more meta because it's about trip

[01:07:28] podcasters

[01:07:30] That is the one thing that if I had I wish burn notice actually probably would have released like 10 years later

[01:07:37] Right, it would have landed right in a podcast era and I would have loved to hear all those guys. I mean you can

[01:07:44] I have listened to some of the commentary and it's it's fine but commentaries not the same as a podcast

[01:07:48] We could get them all in the same room talk and bullshit might be able to convince them to do it soon. I know

[01:07:55] Recastle Lini who as I had on for outlander she had her burn notice

[01:08:01] Uh podcast recap, but she was getting annoyed because some people on twitter were just bad mouth and earns like well

[01:08:07] We're analyzing every part of this we like the show, but we're gonna point out a plot hole

[01:08:13] It is interesting how everyone

[01:08:16] Differentiates and reacts to everything differently

[01:08:19] Uh some recap podcast have been really helpful at helping me like prepare for an inevitable rewatch and other ones have been like

[01:08:27] Like there was one that was there was like three different ones recapping criminal minds

[01:08:31] But like they were nitpicking so much where I'm like good lord. Do you even like the show?

[01:08:37] Yeah, and I mean like um

[01:08:39] but not like necessarily like

[01:08:42] Like you cord like that that level of podcast

[01:08:46] I mean like the actors themselves are part of like like always sunny has a podcast like and it scrubs one

[01:08:51] Yeah, those are the ones I would really be interested in listening to not that I

[01:08:57] Could definitely listen to a burn notice podcast, but sure. Yeah

[01:09:02] and yeah, but

[01:09:05] As far as the villains though like

[01:09:08] That I really

[01:09:10] Going back to Tyler Gray. I liked how they tracked him down. I like how they

[01:09:17] They went through the whole process of trying to like get into that security firm to see who he was and and manipulate that low level

[01:09:25] You know agent type of agent of agents guy or whatever who's I don't know his name was working in that

[01:09:31] Oh, yeah, they just give them you know they make him think that he's you know

[01:09:35] That they're that they're part of a rival

[01:09:38] Security firm or something and trick them into giving up the information but

[01:09:42] um

[01:09:44] Plus that this that was one of the

[01:09:46] That was kind of like us. No, that wasn't they they had already went off

[01:09:50] To other well, I don't know if they went to other countries, but they you know

[01:09:54] Yeah, that kind of is why it is season four, but I know what you mean yeah

[01:09:58] I don't know if they went on site to you know Puerto Rico or wherever they went um

[01:10:03] To go uh, I mean same acts kind of implies a bit of that in the movie

[01:10:10] Yeah, it's eye opening too because you're just like

[01:10:13] Yeah

[01:10:15] We're did around the way that these guys get disillusioned with their career field

[01:10:21] Yeah

[01:10:24] But it's eye opening

[01:10:27] Yeah, and I think that's I think that's what starts

[01:10:31] Yeah, I think that's the big win when when it's Tyler you don't know it's him yet

[01:10:36] But when he kills Nate and then they're tracking down the dragon

[01:10:39] I think it's I think it's the dragon of snipe arrival

[01:10:42] I think because I think that's that whole store line and they I think they go to see more and there and he's a riot

[01:10:47] Seymour's see more kind of like uh

[01:10:50] He's not an enemy, but there are times in the series where he's like

[01:10:56] No, you're about to go off the edge. Yeah, he's not stable

[01:10:59] Yeah

[01:11:00] He might as well be an enemy for some of the things he gets Michael and Fiona into but he he's fucking hilarious

[01:11:07] Um, I don't know what's that guy on grim um all right

[01:11:13] Oh how

[01:11:15] I know they're doing that with grim as well where they're recapping every episode with the cast

[01:11:19] But I still got to catch up on that uh but it's it is eye opening to me now that they have

[01:11:26] uh

[01:11:28] So many shows that are

[01:11:30] Pretty much they're at the fifth or sixth stage of being embraced by an audience now

[01:11:36] Been off the air they haven't really been syndicated, but they're there

[01:11:42] Oh man and uh

[01:11:45] You know everything else from Robocop and StarDrag to

[01:11:50] Uh, Planet of the Apes and Evil Dead is getting a comic book. Uh, would you like to see a burnous comic book continuation since

[01:11:57] Donovan updated about a year ago that Fox was interested in moving

[01:12:02] Forward with a movie idea so I think it'd be awesome. I mean I

[01:12:07] I think it'd make a great I think it'd make a great uh

[01:12:11] comic um

[01:12:13] I would love to see I mean I know some of those shows like turn into like like where house 13 for example

[01:12:20] Like there you go like that like that that had it series and then it had an animated thing um

[01:12:25] I would work for a little while so like I would totally watch that too um like an adult kind of more um

[01:12:32] Not can't be like archer, but you know like yeah that like actually you know similar thing but

[01:12:38] You know, I know it'll cost money and you never know they

[01:12:42] They would take the risk. Oh my god

[01:12:45] That's exactly how the executives are talking. Yes, yeah

[01:12:49] Okay, we don't think it'll make money even though it lasted a while

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