Michael J. Nelson Books Review (with Libby Cudmore!)

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information.

[00:00:57] It's the Riffinator. So, author and blogger and professor Libby Cudmore with a vengeance.

[00:01:06] Happy to be here. I wouldn't call myself a professor, just a casual teacher.

[00:01:10] Okay. Casual teacher.

[00:01:12] Yes. Fiction. I don't teach at the university level. Just to share my, you know, what I know with the people who come to the writer's circle.

[00:01:23] Yes. There we go.

[00:01:28] So, this has been a long time coming. I heard what books by famous comedians she was into, and I being an avid reader, it was like, you know, that was also my proof that I actually listened to the podcast.

[00:01:40] There's nothing worse when you see someone go, oh, I like your show. Okay. Which episode did you listen to?

[00:01:45] Yeah.

[00:01:46] I was like, oh, I listened to a bunch. And at one point she was mentioning, hey, I'm a big fan of some of these books by Mystery Science Theater and Riff Track, Maestro, Head Honcho, Mike Nelson.

[00:01:57] And I was like, yes, that's the perfect guess. I've been looking to kind of discuss those ones.

[00:02:01] I love books by comedians. Virtually everybody has done them, from George to Kai and Aisha Tyler to Dennis Leary and George Carlin. It's just like, it's always a lovely experience.

[00:02:13] I mean, Detective Munch, Richard Belzer had a historical one years ago on how to be a stand-up comedian.

[00:02:18] Oh, yeah. I've been meaning to read Norm MacDonald's as well.

[00:02:21] I think this one kept selling out, and then once he passed away, it was like, you bastards. They just upped the price. And you're like, I love Norm. I'm not shelling out 80 bucks.

[00:02:32] I miss Norm a lot.

[00:02:35] He was kind of like everyone's favorite grumpy uncle who just, like, he knew how to just kind of be truthful in between his grumps, and it was just somehow even funnier. Like, it just landed somehow.

[00:02:49] Yeah. Yeah. I think Dirty Work is a masterpiece.

[00:02:54] Yes.

[00:02:54] Really, it's just one of the funniest films ever made. Some parts of it don't hold up in our contemporary society. Some of the language is a little outdated, but it's still just an absolutely hysterical film.

[00:03:06] Sorry, guys. We were all laughing at homophobic jokes. It happened.

[00:03:10] It did.

[00:03:12] I loved how, for that episode, when you guys were covering the soundtrack, it was like, by the way, just so you guys know, there was no official soundtrack. We're just going by the music listed in the credits.

[00:03:21] Yeah, basically.

[00:03:23] So, we should have got the Dirty Work soundtrack. Put it out on vinyl, you pussies.

[00:03:30] Let's see. This is why I know this is going to be a great episode. Warning. If you couldn't already listen to the viewer description of Vine's promo, we're going to roast something or someone.

[00:03:43] No holds barred. But, yeah, so Mike has recently had a newer book with one of the Riff Trax head writer Connor. It was like a fake diary of Nick Nolte. I haven't read that one yet.

[00:03:57] No, I haven't read that one, although I do love Connor.

[00:04:01] Yeah.

[00:04:02] He was actually in the town where I used to work as a newspaper reporter.

[00:04:10] What?

[00:04:11] Yeah, he actually came to Cooperstown for, they put Homer Simpson in the Baseball Hall of Fame for the, I believe, the 20th anniversary of Homer at the Bat.

[00:04:23] And a couple of the writers were there and he had one of the signs with the argument that they have in the bar.

[00:04:32] Like, I can't remember which sign he had. I think he had Pliny the Elder.

[00:04:37] And my husband took a picture of him.

[00:04:40] And I didn't know it was Connor.

[00:04:41] And later on his Twitter, he posted about being at the Baseball Hall of Fame with, and he had that sign in the picture.

[00:04:50] And I said, one, I'm a huge fan of Riff Trax.

[00:04:53] And two, my husband took a picture of you for the paper. Would you like me to send it to you?

[00:04:57] So he and I would occasionally talk.

[00:04:59] I kept trying to get him to hook me up with Mike Nelson because I know Mike loves the replacements and so do I.

[00:05:06] And I also just think Mike Nelson is really, really, really cute.

[00:05:12] And so I was like, I don't know.

[00:05:14] I just think he would think I'm cool.

[00:05:16] I like the, I just, I have a thing for like a Midwest, like a big tall Midwestern man who loves the replacements.

[00:05:22] That's like my type.

[00:05:24] That's my type right there.

[00:05:26] Very specific type, but I know two guys who fit it.

[00:05:29] So they're both my type.

[00:05:34] Not going to name who the other one is.

[00:05:36] If you know, you know.

[00:05:40] Modine.

[00:05:41] No.

[00:05:43] No, no, no.

[00:05:45] Jeff Goldblum.

[00:05:46] You're just going to like rattle through like, how many can I get?

[00:05:48] Nope, it's not Goldblum.

[00:05:50] Although I do have his jazz record.

[00:05:52] I have one of his two jazz records.

[00:05:54] About to listen to them all.

[00:05:55] They're very awesome.

[00:05:56] Yeah.

[00:05:57] So Mike has three winners.

[00:06:00] Just guffaw, guffaw.

[00:06:02] Just the kind of humor.

[00:06:04] I mean, don't get me wrong.

[00:06:05] You know, Kevin Murphy's A Year of the Movies was always a great read.

[00:06:09] But it's like, Mike had three bangers.

[00:06:12] And I wish he would write a little more.

[00:06:14] But, you know, he started off with 2000's Movie Mega Cheese.

[00:06:17] We talked about some of the various infamous blockbusters of the late 90s.

[00:06:23] And he had Mind Over Matters, which consists of various vigenettes of him at perverted hotels.

[00:06:31] Just looking at TV listings.

[00:06:35] His shorts, his things about performance art and musical theater.

[00:06:40] My copy of that is in serious danger of falling apart.

[00:06:45] That's how many times I've read it.

[00:06:48] When I did teach college, I would have students read from it.

[00:06:54] Because it's just such a wonderful, funny text.

[00:06:59] And I have the read from Kevin Murphy's A Year of the Movies, too.

[00:07:01] His essay about Santa Claus is one of my favorite.

[00:07:06] Just one of my favorite essays.

[00:07:08] That's a great one.

[00:07:09] And, yeah, the one about getting the flu in Italy and not being able to watch films.

[00:07:14] And, like, somehow, like, making it work.

[00:07:16] I just, I think it's really beautiful.

[00:07:18] Oh, and the fact that he ran out of movies in 2001.

[00:07:21] So he's like, I guess I'm going to go and see all these other awful movies I really don't like.

[00:07:27] And it's funny because I go back and I'm like, oh, like, he mentions The Accountant seeing that at Slamdance.

[00:07:33] That went on to win the Oscar for Best Short Film that year.

[00:07:37] Walton Goggins.

[00:07:38] Yes.

[00:07:39] And Ray McKinnon, who I absolutely adore and have adored all of his work.

[00:07:46] He just came out with a new movie called Knox Goes Away, which I didn't realize.

[00:07:49] But, yeah, he's worked on Mud and a bunch of other stuff.

[00:07:54] Check that out.

[00:07:55] I really like Randy and the Mob, which is kind of a mess of a movie, but I really enjoy it.

[00:08:01] And it's PG.

[00:08:02] It is.

[00:08:03] It's a rare PG film.

[00:08:06] About mobsters, mommy.

[00:08:08] Yeah.

[00:08:08] So, and then That Evening Son is the one my husband really likes.

[00:08:14] That's also, just again, really beautiful.

[00:08:17] So, thanks for making me think about Ray McKinnon.

[00:08:19] I actually hadn't thought about him in a bit.

[00:08:21] But, yeah.

[00:08:22] And so it's funny.

[00:08:23] I own Rectify, but I still got to actually sit down and watch it all.

[00:08:27] I tried.

[00:08:27] I couldn't get through Rectify.

[00:08:29] It was too slow.

[00:08:30] And I love Ray McKinnon's, like, the softness and the slow burn of his films.

[00:08:35] But I'm like, this is a TV show.

[00:08:37] You have to move things along.

[00:08:38] Please move things along, sir.

[00:08:40] Give up.

[00:08:41] Oh, good.

[00:08:44] All right.

[00:08:45] So, but, yeah.

[00:08:47] He checked out a bunch of shorts.

[00:08:48] And it's just so funny how Kevin just cannot stand Kevin Costner and some of the other A-listers.

[00:08:53] So, he lets those movies wreck them more than this.

[00:08:57] But, yeah.

[00:08:58] Mind Over Matters has a lot of just bizarre massage parlor and other just hotel stuff.

[00:09:05] And I don't think Mike's a homophobe, but he's definitely uncomfortable of seeing people look at his gender.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:12] I think he's just, he's very Midwestern in the sense that, like, nudity and human bodies, like, make him uncomfortable.

[00:09:21] Yeah.

[00:09:22] Unless it's the other gender.

[00:09:24] No, not even.

[00:09:25] Like, because you see it in movies.

[00:09:31] Like, they cover up the nudity in Starship Troopers.

[00:09:36] And all I know is he makes a few riffs on some of the Star Trek movies saying, oh, please take your top off.

[00:09:42] Certain actresses.

[00:09:43] So, I didn't know how much of that was the writers versus him joking.

[00:09:46] Yeah.

[00:09:46] No, he just, he seems very uncomfortable with human beings.

[00:09:51] Which I think is, again, that's a deeply Midwestern thing.

[00:09:55] You're not going to see him at an art museum.

[00:09:57] Oh, yeah.

[00:09:58] He just seems very, you know, we just rewatched Girl in Gold Boots, which is one of my favorite episodes of MST3K.

[00:10:06] That and Hobgoblins.

[00:10:07] And he's just, again, seems very unnerved by all the girls dancing.

[00:10:11] And then later, Crow shaking his various things.

[00:10:17] So, I definitely like that.

[00:10:20] I did re-see Hobgoblins recently.

[00:10:23] I'm like, oh, it's so good.

[00:10:24] It's funny, but, god, fuck that movie.

[00:10:27] Oh, I love Hobgoblins.

[00:10:28] I love Hobgoblins.

[00:10:29] I had correspondence with Rick Sloan for a while.

[00:10:33] And I actually just acquired sort of the jewel of my record collection, which is...

[00:10:39] I'm sure there's good music in it.

[00:10:40] It's just, I don't know, man.

[00:10:42] I can't handle Grimlins.

[00:10:44] No, gosh, they're bad.

[00:10:45] No, yeah, the Darkwave band called the Fontanelles did the soundtrack for Hobgoblins.

[00:10:55] It was just, it was their music, like their EP.

[00:11:00] And only a handful of copies of it exist because they were never signed to a major label.

[00:11:05] And I managed to get my hands on one of them.

[00:11:09] Only three songs.

[00:11:10] It was just everything else.

[00:11:11] Oh, yeah.

[00:11:12] But yeah, that's like the prize of my record collection is the Fontanelles.

[00:11:17] I also have the Girl at Gold Boots soundtrack.

[00:11:18] I've got the Hellcats soundtrack.

[00:11:20] Those are fun.

[00:11:21] Yeah, a bunch of maybe Van Doren stuff.

[00:11:24] I was with Mike where he pretends to sneak into the theater and tries to sneak out.

[00:11:29] I want it out of that movie.

[00:11:34] So then the last one he does is Death Rat,

[00:11:39] which is just a small town satire.

[00:11:43] And like you say, you do kind of see a bit of his Midwest heritage just illustrated there.

[00:11:47] But I just love how this giant monster movie spoof,

[00:11:51] this giant rat is bringing everybody who otherwise doesn't get along kind of together.

[00:11:57] Yeah, it brings in like all these different groups of people.

[00:12:00] All these hippies, all these conservative guys.

[00:12:03] And you're just like, what the hell?

[00:12:04] Yeah, I hadn't read Death Rat since I got a copy of it for my birthday when it came out.

[00:12:14] And when I was traveling down to this writer's workshop that I was teaching at,

[00:12:20] I brought it on the train because I knew we were going to be doing this podcast.

[00:12:24] I was like, I should refresh myself because I've memorized Mind Over Matters,

[00:12:28] memorized huge parts of Movie Mega Cheese.

[00:12:30] But I was like, it's been a while.

[00:12:31] So I uncovered my copy of Death Rat,

[00:12:34] which had been sort of at the bottom of the pile when we moved.

[00:12:38] And I was cracking up on the train.

[00:12:41] It's like War of the Worlds kind of.

[00:12:44] He televises it over the radio and everyone thinks it's an actual incident.

[00:12:49] Yeah, but I forgot how funny it was.

[00:12:52] And it's great because there's so many references to sort of other jokes of his.

[00:12:56] Like he mentions, like the Bleeding Vein Theater, which is in his essay on performance art in Mind Over Matters.

[00:13:03] Running gag.

[00:13:03] And so there's just like different, all these different things tied together.

[00:13:08] It's sort of the Mike Nelson extended universe.

[00:13:10] The Mike Nelson universe, yes.

[00:13:13] Which I love.

[00:13:15] The only thing that was missing was taking the fictional band Sex Factory from History Science.

[00:13:21] Yes, I was very surprised that Sex Factory didn't make it.

[00:13:24] Oh, man.

[00:13:26] But that might have been a Bill joke or a Kevin joke.

[00:13:31] Probably.

[00:13:32] True, because it has sex in the name.

[00:13:36] Sweet Mike Nelson.

[00:13:37] Such a weird, wonderful man.

[00:13:40] I just, I adore him.

[00:13:41] I adore Bridget, too.

[00:13:43] I've been watching a lot of the Bridget and Mary Jo shorts lately.

[00:13:47] And I'm...

[00:13:48] Are you going to see Point Break tomorrow?

[00:13:51] No.

[00:13:52] I like that movie.

[00:13:53] I don't want to see it riffed.

[00:13:53] No, I actually love...

[00:13:56] It's like Mario Brothers for me.

[00:13:57] I'm like, eh.

[00:13:58] But I did see the riff, the solo riff years ago.

[00:14:02] It's like...

[00:14:03] The riff of Mario Brothers, I think, is really mean.

[00:14:06] Because I think they're unfairly mean to John Locasamo, who's a national treasure.

[00:14:11] Yeah, he can sing and dance.

[00:14:13] He's come a long way.

[00:14:15] He's amazing.

[00:14:16] And I love Super Mario Brothers.

[00:14:17] Did you see his Conan interview?

[00:14:19] I didn't.

[00:14:20] Okay, so it was a more recent one.

[00:14:22] And they would joke, let's just say three years back.

[00:14:26] But he had a hysterical story how, what it was like going from different auditions.

[00:14:31] And next thing you know, he comes out from one.

[00:14:35] And he meets a then-unknown Benicio Del Toro and Benjamin Bratt.

[00:14:39] And they're all joking.

[00:14:40] Well, what did you just audition for?

[00:14:42] Oh, the gay best friend.

[00:14:44] What did you audition for?

[00:14:45] Or, you know, the typical Latino boyfriend role.

[00:14:49] What did you get?

[00:14:50] Thug.

[00:14:50] Shitty thug role.

[00:14:53] And then they're just all realizing, oh, I auditioned for that exact same role.

[00:14:58] So I'm so glad you got it and not me.

[00:15:00] And...

[00:15:02] That's funny.

[00:15:02] Yeah, no, he's brilliant.

[00:15:04] I read his monologue collection, Mambo Mouth, a few years ago.

[00:15:08] Actually, I think during the pandemic.

[00:15:09] I got really into reading monologues.

[00:15:12] When we moved, I uncovered my massive Eric Bogosian collection that I'd read in grad school.

[00:15:20] And so I got...

[00:15:21] The dude's getting up there.

[00:15:22] It's like 70 now.

[00:15:23] I love Eric Bogosian.

[00:15:24] I have a little crush on him.

[00:15:27] But yeah, I'm reading Mambo Mouth and thinking about Super Mario Brothers, which is still one of my favorite movies.

[00:15:34] It's a fun movie.

[00:15:35] Latin History for Morons was a cool special.

[00:15:37] I saw his Leguizamo Does America, where he looks at the various Afro-Cuban scenes.

[00:15:45] And that was fun, just seeing him tour around at different spots.

[00:15:48] But...

[00:15:48] Yeah.

[00:15:48] I rewatched Tu Wong Fu, which brings us back to Patrick Swayze.

[00:15:52] And that movie is incredible.

[00:15:55] And we never deserved Patrick Swayze at all.

[00:15:59] But I am looking forward because I actually like when they riff movies I love.

[00:16:02] Because I riff movies that I love, especially Roadhouse, which I saw because of Mike Nelson.

[00:16:10] Like, I read about Roadhouse in Mike Nelson's movie Mega Cheese.

[00:16:14] He talks about him in these books a bunch.

[00:16:16] Yeah.

[00:16:17] So even before he was guesting on the Blu-ray commentary and then doing the riff tracks alone and then bringing Bill and Kevin in at the start of riff tracks for the free riffer version.

[00:16:29] It's like that is the movie he bases every movie on, ironically.

[00:16:34] It's just like...

[00:16:34] I think Mike would have been a great actor.

[00:16:37] It's just he didn't...

[00:16:38] Like many comedians, including Frank and all the others, they just didn't want to deal with all the pitching it and budget and all the other bullshit that really ate up Joel and company.

[00:16:49] Yeah.

[00:16:50] But he could do a stand-up for sure.

[00:16:52] Like, I mean, that's often what he was doing when he was waiting tables at comedy clubs.

[00:16:57] I know...

[00:16:58] TGI Fridays.

[00:16:59] TGI Fridays, yep.

[00:17:00] I think he mentioned Jonathan Winters and Jerry Seinfeld he was a big fan of.

[00:17:05] He's not a fan at all of Danicari, but to be fair, he had a hysterical riff.

[00:17:09] That dude sucked!

[00:17:11] And I'm like, okay.

[00:17:14] But, oh, I...

[00:17:16] No, I just, again, like his affability and it's just sort of like...

[00:17:20] Affabilities, yep.

[00:17:23] His...

[00:17:26] His just sort of like gentle bafflement.

[00:17:29] Gentle bafflement.

[00:17:30] He also has an unusual buildup and it's just tough to describe, but he just kind of...

[00:17:35] Will often mix it in with impressions or...

[00:17:39] He somehow makes it more than just amusing dry ramble.

[00:17:44] Like, he just knows how to build it up and then he always has a gotcha moment even before the punchline.

[00:17:51] I'm like, oh, oh, that's what you're going for.

[00:17:54] Okay.

[00:17:55] Yeah.

[00:17:55] So, and again, just his ability to craft an insult.

[00:18:02] And...

[00:18:03] But not...

[00:18:03] But you're glad it's not aimed at you.

[00:18:06] I just, I remember the 375 pages will never get back podcast that he did with Connor.

[00:18:13] Yes.

[00:18:14] And doing Ready Player One, which is an abomination on society.

[00:18:21] And as your president, I will try Ernest Cline at The Hague.

[00:18:25] Because I think he's a monster.

[00:18:27] He's a dick.

[00:18:29] And just the way all...

[00:18:32] You know, just stay in your...

[00:18:33] I remember Mike just saying, stay in your lane, man.

[00:18:35] And if Mike Nelson ever said that about me, it's not a huge elaborate insult.

[00:18:41] But if Mike Nelson ever said that about me, I would walk into the ocean.

[00:18:45] And Mike and I actually did exchange correspondence for a bit at Riff Tracks.

[00:18:52] And he's an absolutely lovely, lovely person.

[00:18:56] Yep.

[00:18:57] And so I sometimes would comfort myself because Ernest Cline got more money for Ready Player One

[00:19:03] than I will probably ever know.

[00:19:07] And worked on the revival of MST3K.

[00:19:11] But Mike Nelson said that his writing sucks.

[00:19:16] And Mike Nelson was nice to me.

[00:19:19] So I think I won.

[00:19:21] Clearly this guy loves MST3K and wanted to be part of it.

[00:19:26] And in my mind, the best host.

[00:19:29] I told him to stay in his lane.

[00:19:33] Made fun of him.

[00:19:35] Made an entire podcast to make fun of him.

[00:19:40] I wouldn't be able to live with myself if that happened to me.

[00:19:43] Like, if Walton Goggins made a whole podcast talking about what a dum-dum I was,

[00:19:46] I would walk into the ocean.

[00:19:48] Oh, come on.

[00:19:49] Livvy.

[00:19:50] You gotta stand on your own two feet.

[00:19:52] You know what I mean?

[00:19:54] I spent so much time praising his work.

[00:19:57] And then he's just like, no, you're terrible.

[00:19:59] I'd be like, nope, I'm out.

[00:20:00] If my hero insulted me, I'd be like, okay, I'll stop watching your movies.

[00:20:04] No, but to go and create a wonderful piece of art mocking Ernest Cline's piece of garbage.

[00:20:15] Amazing.

[00:20:15] Amazing.

[00:20:15] Ernest Cline, it's what he deserves.

[00:20:17] I hate him so much.

[00:20:20] Yeah.

[00:20:21] I threw Ready Player One across the room.

[00:20:22] I was like, I'm not doing this.

[00:20:25] So, the guy is, he's the worst.

[00:20:27] But I just like.

[00:20:29] I talked to Mike briefly on Facebook years ago.

[00:20:31] I want to say 2013, 2014.

[00:20:33] Because at one part of his book, he jokes how his face is almost as hollow and ripped up

[00:20:41] as Michael Chiklis' bald head on the shield.

[00:20:43] And I was like, oh, so Mike, do you not like Chiklis?

[00:20:47] And he's like, that is a blatant lie.

[00:20:49] Chiklis is the man.

[00:20:50] I'm like, okay.

[00:20:50] I haven't read too much into the joke or the test.

[00:20:54] That's really funny.

[00:20:55] And somehow I missed that because it's like, my two favorite things.

[00:20:59] MST3K and the shield in one space.

[00:21:02] I remember there was a riff in the Fantastic Four.

[00:21:06] Oh, God.

[00:21:07] Yeah.

[00:21:08] Where.

[00:21:08] I have no other reference at that point.

[00:21:11] Like, yeah, where I think something blows up and Kevin just goes, Lem.

[00:21:14] And I'm like, okay, too soon.

[00:21:16] Too soon.

[00:21:18] Oh, wow.

[00:21:18] I forgot about that.

[00:21:20] Probably.

[00:21:20] Too soon.

[00:21:20] There are some good riffs in that one.

[00:21:22] It's just the movie is so bad.

[00:21:23] I struggle.

[00:21:24] That's not great.

[00:21:27] He pretty much in the mega cheese, he pretty much takes on just about every movie from ones

[00:21:33] that I'm not surprised he takes on later on riff tracks from Independence Day and Anaconda

[00:21:39] to plenty of other blockbusters.

[00:21:41] There's the one that had me on the floor.

[00:21:43] And I still quote to this day is when taking on the infamous movie Ed.

[00:21:49] For those who don't know, Joey from Friends attempted a movie career.

[00:21:54] It didn't pan out.

[00:21:55] But he was talking to an ape, which was all a robotic puppet.

[00:21:59] And it's just so funny because he just can't get past his name, LeBlanc.

[00:22:03] And he's like, that means white in Spanish.

[00:22:04] I'm just going to call you Matt the White for just the rest of the book.

[00:22:10] And it's just so funny because he's just like, he just, he lets, much like Kevin lets certain

[00:22:18] overrated stars ruin him movies for him.

[00:22:22] Like Mike just has something about everybody.

[00:22:24] But I think I never find it snarky.

[00:22:26] I always just find it.

[00:22:27] It's like, it's just saying your private thoughts out loud.

[00:22:31] And he's just like, ah, that's Carissa guys eating the scenery.

[00:22:34] I fucking hate it.

[00:22:35] You know, and stuff like that.

[00:22:36] Sharon Stone, keep your clothes on.

[00:22:38] And it's all just a funny reminiscing.

[00:22:40] And I'm surprised he didn't encounter any movies with rappers or they just thought

[00:22:46] are bad special effects.

[00:22:47] But he pretty much just sticks with just the main ones and noting how.

[00:22:52] Just on funny they are and everything is like, yeah.

[00:22:56] And it's pretty bad comedies.

[00:22:58] It's so funny, like going back through, because I reread Movie Mega Cheese during the pandemic

[00:23:05] and like movies that I had forgotten about.

[00:23:10] Like I reread it before we did our episode on Blast from the Past.

[00:23:15] And I had just memory hold that movie.

[00:23:17] Like I had completely forgotten about Blast from the Past.

[00:23:18] I forgot to mention it briefly.

[00:23:20] Yeah.

[00:23:22] And really only got to it because I, on the OST party, I insisted that we do a three-part

[00:23:29] series on the rise and fall of the swing revival movement from 1994 to 1999.

[00:23:35] Yes.

[00:23:36] Swing music.

[00:23:37] Yep.

[00:23:37] So that meant we had to talk about Blast from the Past.

[00:23:42] Which I had never seen and again, had completely forgotten about, but also then discovered that

[00:23:47] there's a really absolutely killer Cherry Poppin' Daddy song called So Long Toots.

[00:23:51] Oh, yes.

[00:23:52] That's on that soundtrack and later appeared on their 2000 album Soul Caddy, which is also

[00:23:58] a great record.

[00:24:00] So I just got their new album.

[00:24:02] It's so good.

[00:24:03] I love them so much.

[00:24:04] Oh, lovely.

[00:24:07] So Mike doesn't like Jean-Claude Van Damme, and I get it.

[00:24:11] The dude's an egomaniac.

[00:24:13] He is a big Jackie Chan fan.

[00:24:14] Did you notice that?

[00:24:16] Yes.

[00:24:16] He's the man.

[00:24:18] He respects Arnold movies, but he finds them too mindless, so they're just not really his

[00:24:22] thing.

[00:24:25] But I just love the third chapter where he's just nothing but sci-fi.

[00:24:29] I, and he just brings up how he hated Lost in Space as a kid.

[00:24:36] He figured it was just, you know.

[00:24:37] And once again, he's encountering Matt LeBlanc, so the riffs are aimed at him again.

[00:24:42] But he's just like, man, I didn't understand that show here.

[00:24:46] But nostalgia, aside from anyone else, I pity anyone who can get for this, you know, incomprehensible

[00:24:53] off movie.

[00:24:54] Well, and that's who it's dedicated to.

[00:24:57] Yeah.

[00:24:59] So this is fun, the dedication.

[00:25:01] He does.

[00:25:02] And he does joke about the various nepotism, and I thought that was fun, because you do forget

[00:25:07] how many just privileged actors are there.

[00:25:10] He's pretty mean to Joe Estevez, who I'm actually best friends with.

[00:25:15] That's, really?

[00:25:16] Yes.

[00:25:16] I interviewed him years ago and followed everything he does.

[00:25:20] I legit think he's a good actor.

[00:25:22] I would never know it wasn't Martin unless I looked at the two of them and had some college.

[00:25:27] He did Roller Gator, and that brings me great joy.

[00:25:30] Oh, well, see, here's the thing.

[00:25:31] I've seen him actually be good in other movies.

[00:25:33] It's just, they pick the bottom of the barrel.

[00:25:36] Like, the real ones is, like, for anyone to work.

[00:25:39] There's, I mean, it also comes down to, like, what is it about, what is the purpose of film?

[00:25:46] I mean, obviously there's many purposes of film.

[00:25:49] To inspire, to educate, to thrill, to love, like, to feel connection to the people on the

[00:25:59] screen and the people you're in the theater with.

[00:26:01] But there's something about a movie that was never going to be good.

[00:26:06] Roller Gator was never going to be good.

[00:26:08] And yet, it makes me happy when I watch it because it's so funny.

[00:26:13] And when I watch Roller Gator, you know, it's streaming on Pluto.

[00:26:17] It is a good road track.

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:18] Then I think about, like, my friend Tad, and I send a text to Tad.

[00:26:22] And I'm like, hey, Tad, how are you?

[00:26:23] And it just, like, the power of bad film, I think, can be just as powerful.

[00:26:31] As, you know, so-called, like, good film.

[00:26:34] And Catherine Coldiron writes a lot about this in her book, Junk Film.

[00:26:41] And she actually, she has stickers that say, watch bad movies, make great art.

[00:26:45] And just, like, the power.

[00:26:48] I see it.

[00:26:49] Why bad movies matter perfect.

[00:26:51] Yeah.

[00:26:52] Like, watching what we consider garbage cinema and, like, what you can learn from it, what you can pull from it.

[00:26:58] My husband and I just watched Showgirls, which I had never seen.

[00:27:01] Oh, dear.

[00:27:03] And I can't stop thinking about it.

[00:27:05] Like, there's been other movies that I've watched that are, like, good movies.

[00:27:12] And obviously I know, like, what good cinema is.

[00:27:15] But I cannot stop thinking about Showgirls.

[00:27:18] Like, I was taking a nap today and I was just lying on the couch thinking about how she licks that pole.

[00:27:24] Oh, God.

[00:27:25] Like, I watched a movie four weeks ago and I'm still thinking about parts of it.

[00:27:30] But what's funny is Joe Estrauss was recently interviewed on the Hollywood Reporter's official podcast that happened in Hollywood.

[00:27:39] And it's just so funny how, much like Mike in this book, he jokes about how shitty erotic fillers have become when he revolutionized the genre.

[00:27:46] But he also jokes how it was too many cooks in the kitchen.

[00:27:50] And he's like, but anytime there's a cult cinema showing and he does a Q&A for it, just like it's always packed.

[00:27:56] Like, everybody wants to know it.

[00:27:57] And much like The Room, there are people who legit like it.

[00:28:00] There are people who love to hate it.

[00:28:02] And then there are people who are just like, it's an essential bad movie.

[00:28:07] It's going to be funny.

[00:28:09] And yeah, like, I stopped thinking of movies as bad.

[00:28:13] Because, like, there are plenty of movies that, like, other people love.

[00:28:15] And I'm like, that's a terrible movie.

[00:28:16] Like, it's not good.

[00:28:18] Oh, trust me.

[00:28:19] I've lost many friends over my hatred of Mad Max.

[00:28:21] I'm like, I like apocalyptic movies.

[00:28:25] Everybody is so dense and shallow in that movie.

[00:28:27] I hate it.

[00:28:28] Yeah, like, I will argue the virtues of Girl in Gold Boots over any Star Wars movie.

[00:28:35] Oh, there you go.

[00:28:35] Because here's the thing.

[00:28:37] Like, but then you encounter these snobs who act like a movie is only as good as its budget.

[00:28:43] It's like, I don't give two shits about the budget.

[00:28:45] It could be 500 million.

[00:28:47] But if the plot just doesn't grab you or you don't like anyone in it, it doesn't matter.

[00:28:53] Yeah, or the characters feel forced.

[00:28:54] It's just walking through a toy aisle.

[00:28:57] I love some of the most hated X-Files and Star Trek episodes just because I like the idea.

[00:29:04] But everybody has become so accustomed.

[00:29:05] Oh, you must hate that.

[00:29:07] I'm like, you've seen it 20 times as well.

[00:29:10] So tell me, why do you hate it?

[00:29:12] I don't think you know why you hate it.

[00:29:14] You're just jumping on a bandwagon because it's easy.

[00:29:17] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:29:19] I just, I feel like there's...

[00:29:21] The most hated season of The Wire I love.

[00:29:25] So I don't know.

[00:29:26] I don't...

[00:29:26] Yeah, like cult cinema, which encompasses a lot of what is considered bad or trash or so bad it's good cinema.

[00:29:37] I think has a real way of bringing people together because it becomes this experience.

[00:29:41] And I really feel in a lot of ways...

[00:29:42] And we want to remake them.

[00:29:43] No one will be angry that you're making them.

[00:29:46] No, I don't ever want to remake.

[00:29:48] I want them to stay as they are.

[00:29:49] And I think that's one of the things, going back to Mystery Science Theater 3000 and its importance in film preservation, is keeping these movies alive and showing them to other people and becoming part of our dialogue around film, which I think is so important.

[00:30:08] And...

[00:30:09] You wouldn't want to remake Night of the Blood Beast or Tear Strangler?

[00:30:13] No.

[00:30:13] No, because I think...

[00:30:14] I think they're good movies.

[00:30:16] It's just, they're not well made, but...

[00:30:18] But, but when I...

[00:30:20] One of the things I love about those movies is, like, they exist as, like, moments in time.

[00:30:26] And so you see the outfits people were wearing, the cars people were driving, like, they become these historical documents.

[00:30:32] What our fears were at the time.

[00:30:36] What...

[00:30:37] Well, yeah, there's lots of...

[00:30:38] What we were worried about on a larger scale.

[00:30:40] Like, what we were trying to sell.

[00:30:43] What we were trying to...

[00:30:46] What stories we were trying to tell.

[00:30:47] I accused my parents as a big infomercial.

[00:30:51] Yeah.

[00:30:52] Not well done, but a cool thing.

[00:30:54] And the way that these storytellers tried to tell...

[00:30:58] We were paranoid.

[00:31:00] These stories.

[00:31:01] Yeah.

[00:31:02] But I kind of, I kind of love that.

[00:31:04] Also, Are You Happy in Your Work is a fucking jam.

[00:31:09] I would say, I would get the 45 of that right now, if that was available.

[00:31:13] I sing that, like, all the time.

[00:31:14] I just, like, walk around singing, like, are you happy in your work?

[00:31:20] Do you never, ever shirk?

[00:31:25] I love it.

[00:31:26] There's some music.

[00:31:27] It's one of the handful of Joel episodes that I really love.

[00:31:30] Like, I really am firmly team Mike.

[00:31:33] Apples and oranges, my dude.

[00:31:36] Dude, dude.

[00:31:37] I think also I came to it through Mike.

[00:31:40] The first episode I ever watched was The Brute Man.

[00:31:42] And so I think which host you see first, or which host you spent the most time with via, you know, keep circulating the tapes, anything like that, is kind of the one you have the most feelings for.

[00:31:56] But again, I just love a big Midwestern man who loves the replacements.

[00:32:00] It's Chris Poo-Yoo was the star.

[00:32:03] He was the one forcing all the movies on us.

[00:32:08] I think you should do a special on the music of Pod People.

[00:32:12] Oh, God.

[00:32:13] Or Space Mutiny.

[00:32:15] Maybe even.

[00:32:19] We'll see.

[00:32:19] There are like a handful of like real musical episodes.

[00:32:24] Girl in Gold Boots, obviously.

[00:32:28] Hobgoblins.

[00:32:30] Merlin Shop kind of had some weird music in it.

[00:32:32] Well, there's, what's the one with Yife Stripes?

[00:32:36] Is that Teenage Strangler?

[00:32:37] Probably.

[00:32:39] There was Mitchell, Squirm.

[00:32:42] There was a bunch.

[00:32:44] Squirm was actually, the guy that wrote Squirm grew up in the area around here.

[00:32:50] It was from Fly Creek, which is why the town is named Fly Creek.

[00:32:54] Fly Creek is about 20 minutes.

[00:32:55] I think the lead in it also became like a director of shows like 30 Rock or something like that.

[00:33:02] Yeah, I know.

[00:33:03] Weird history.

[00:33:04] Who was it?

[00:33:05] Timothy Van Patten, of course, from Master Ninja.

[00:33:08] Hey.

[00:33:09] Yes.

[00:33:11] I'm really surprised Mike didn't mention the whole Van Patten family, but that would have been a little more obscure.

[00:33:17] But yeah, like I was watching the HBO reboot of Perry Mason.

[00:33:22] It's like Timothy Van Patten.

[00:33:23] I'm like, that can't.

[00:33:24] Like, he was the, I believe, the executive producer.

[00:33:26] He had some high role in that.

[00:33:28] I'm like, that can't be.

[00:33:29] Him and Dick.

[00:33:29] The same like Master Ninja.

[00:33:31] Yep.

[00:33:32] Him and Dick.

[00:33:33] They loved him.

[00:33:34] Or not Dick.

[00:33:35] There was the other Van Patten.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:37] You're right.

[00:33:37] It's Tim.

[00:33:38] But there was another Van.

[00:33:41] Yeah.

[00:33:41] So I posted something about it.

[00:33:46] Frank, who frequently retweets a lot of my stuff, which is Frank is a lovely, lovely man.

[00:33:53] He commented on it.

[00:33:54] Fun fact.

[00:33:55] He used to write for the Young Turks.

[00:33:58] I think I knew that.

[00:34:00] But isn't so funny.

[00:34:01] I'm like, dude, which episode?

[00:34:03] When the Young Turks started out, it was very much like The Daily Show.

[00:34:07] So I feel like a lot of Mind Over Matters, if there's one key thing that carries on into both that and Mega Cheese, it's his just.

[00:34:19] He not only just jokes about different party and catering stuff, but also just like he knows the impossible.

[00:34:30] Like he jokes about typical high school sports being booed off of a theater, you know, stage play production.

[00:34:38] Even that's the funniest essay I've ever read.

[00:34:42] The one that had me was the shit.

[00:34:46] What's the one he he there's so too many to count, but he he goes on a spree just naming off titles that could easily be terrible, you know, Sunday night movies or Lifetime channel movies.

[00:34:58] And I'm just like that much like that should be a band name.

[00:35:02] I am all about is like, yes, that totally sounds like a terrible directed video made for TV movie.

[00:35:08] We would all rent, you know, and it's like it has that.

[00:35:11] But yeah, the line that always sticks out to me when he's talking about in my triumphs in musical theater from Mind Over Matters.

[00:35:20] He talks about the rail not breaking when he's playing in Oliver Twist.

[00:35:25] He's sort of he says short of waving politely to the audience and walking to my death.

[00:35:32] And that is the funniest line to me, just like because he's such a great visual writer.

[00:35:37] Like I can picture it.

[00:35:38] I feel his pain ironically.

[00:35:40] And you're like, oh, man, I would hate to be in your shoes.

[00:35:43] And anybody who's been on a stage like knows that feeling.

[00:35:49] Yeah.

[00:35:49] Whether you've dropped a line, whether like you still feel that panic.

[00:35:54] Because he's actually in pain while he's delivering a painful monologue.

[00:35:57] So it's almost kind of method acting for him.

[00:36:00] So, yeah, when he's like the rail broke, but someone had forgotten to put the crash pad down.

[00:36:08] And I thought about that.

[00:36:10] My husband and I helped out on a local production of Beauty and the Beast.

[00:36:13] And my husband was one of the set painters.

[00:36:16] I was the costume lead.

[00:36:19] And there's the scene where Gaston falls.

[00:36:22] And every single night I'd like double and triple check.

[00:36:24] It wasn't even my job, but I double and triple checked to make sure that crash pad was there.

[00:36:29] Did you have to raid an entire thrift store just to get extra clothes?

[00:36:33] No, no.

[00:36:33] They had a very, very good costume closet.

[00:36:35] But just every night checking to make sure that crash pad was there.

[00:36:41] Because my friend Patrick was, he was playing Gaston.

[00:36:48] And I did have to sew his pants at one point while they were on him.

[00:36:51] Oh, dear.

[00:36:53] So I didn't last long in costuming.

[00:36:55] But it's also funny because he talks about being in Anything Goes.

[00:37:01] Anything Goes, yes.

[00:37:02] Which I was also in in high school.

[00:37:05] That was your favorite play, you lost a check?

[00:37:08] No, it's not.

[00:37:09] It's like one of my least favorite.

[00:37:11] Okay.

[00:37:11] Because I was in it.

[00:37:12] What was your favorite favorite?

[00:37:13] Because there was another one you mentioned in the interview we did.

[00:37:18] My favorite play is Head of Gabbler.

[00:37:19] My favorite musical is Little Shop of Horrors.

[00:37:22] Okay.

[00:37:24] But...

[00:37:24] I don't know why.

[00:37:26] No, that's fine.

[00:37:27] You mentioned it a bunch, so I forgot.

[00:37:29] It's traumatizing.

[00:37:32] But they bring that up in Mystery Science Theater 3000 when they have him, they show the pictures of him in a sailor suit.

[00:37:39] Yeah.

[00:37:40] Is that an actual photo?

[00:37:43] Yeah, I don't think so.

[00:37:44] I think it was just a prop.

[00:37:45] But they mentioned that.

[00:37:46] And then at one point when Frank's pretending to be a TV agent, he says he's booked Mike in a 10-week run of Anything Goes.

[00:37:56] Oh, meta.

[00:37:57] And the next cut is to him in a sailor suit singing Anything Goes.

[00:38:03] That's right.

[00:38:04] We'll return after these messages.

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[00:39:23] So this is why this show is even more cultural, just talking about other old school stuff from hotlines to other obscure playwrights.

[00:39:38] There were other times where it's just like you would even look up the joke and realize, oh, we're talking about a famous person who died of AIDS or another politician who got canceled.

[00:39:47] Yeah, and that's, I think, one of the great things about MST3K is being able, it's such a broad swath that it allows you to grow with it.

[00:39:55] And even, like, in rereading all of these books, like, sort of recognizing stuff I hadn't thought about before, movies I hadn't seen when I first read it, and I'm now reading it.

[00:40:05] But, I'm so glad you avoided the bad ones.

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:10] Although, he does talk in Movie Mega Cheese, he talks about wild things, which, of course, makes him wildly uncomfortable.

[00:40:16] And that movie lives rent-free in my head, that movie.

[00:40:21] I also am sort of, like, deeply uncomfortable in a lot of ways with, like, movie, not nudity, I'm fine with movie nudity, but, like, movie sensuality, like, forced movie sensuality.

[00:40:34] I don't want to ban it or anything like that, I'm not on that train, but I'm just sort of like, Kevin Bacon, please put your clothes back on.

[00:40:40] I'm one of those, don't goof up the tone, like, back to the stay in the lane thing.

[00:40:48] So, like, I hate Game of Thrones because I can't decide if it wants to be a horror movie, a fantasy epic, or a Skinamax show.

[00:40:58] And it just keeps changing so constantly, it drove me fucking crazy.

[00:41:02] So, I'm just like, okay, good acting, good set design.

[00:41:07] I'm not digging where any of this is going.

[00:41:09] But...

[00:41:10] Yeah.

[00:41:10] I actually, I avoided Kevin Bacon movies because I, for decades, I don't, I didn't see Full Loose until I was in my 30s.

[00:41:17] Because I saw Wild Things and Hollow Man very close together, and I'm just like, why is this guy's penis always out?

[00:41:23] I had a friend like that because he saw him in all the movies where he was a psycho, he was very uncomfortable seeing him in movies.

[00:41:29] Yeah, like, I'm still like a little, and it turns out Kevin Bacon is actually like a wonderfully nice human being, but I'm still like uncomfortable by him.

[00:41:36] You would like his wife Kyra's show The Closer.

[00:41:40] Yeah, I've seen it.

[00:41:42] Oh, lots of comedy.

[00:41:45] But yeah, it's just, again, just sort of, I think a lot of, again, my sensibilities.

[00:41:52] I'm not from the Midwest.

[00:41:54] A couple generations back, my family is.

[00:41:57] But I like a lot of sort of Midwest humor.

[00:42:01] I love Jim Gaffigan.

[00:42:02] I love Fortune Beamster.

[00:42:04] I think Gaffigan would be a perfect for them.

[00:42:06] Because he's not one of those clean comedians, but he also just doesn't go out of his way to rely on profanity.

[00:42:13] Yeah, which is funny because apparently Frank works very blue.

[00:42:18] Which does not surprise me, but they had to tell him when they did the reunion show.

[00:42:25] Yeah.

[00:42:26] Like, he could not work blue.

[00:42:30] Which he somehow managed to do while keeping it fairly clean.

[00:42:34] When MSD for K, the movie came out, I always would crack up because that was like one of the few times you heard the word shit.

[00:42:41] Yeah.

[00:42:42] Intertime was one of the other movies that they didn't edit.

[00:42:45] Yeah, kind of throws you a little bit.

[00:42:48] Shit.

[00:42:49] But that's why I also, again, like I would teach essays from Movie Mega Cheese and from Minor Matters.

[00:42:57] They're all great writers.

[00:42:58] Because they were clean, in a sense.

[00:43:01] And, you know, I was teaching college, so it didn't necessarily matter.

[00:43:05] But I also didn't want to make people uncomfortable.

[00:43:07] They're risque without having to actually go further.

[00:43:11] And it seems like other comedians have unfortunately just been either too busy copying each other or just not realizing what makes them witty in the first place.

[00:43:22] Yeah.

[00:43:22] And I absolutely, like, I work very blue.

[00:43:26] You know, anyone who's heard me, I guess I did an episode of Discord and Rhyme.

[00:43:32] That's a good one.

[00:43:33] And apparently I worked a little too blue because people are like, does she have to swear so much?

[00:43:37] I'm like, well, I wouldn't swear so much if you didn't bring up Randy Newman.

[00:43:44] They brought up Randy Newman.

[00:43:46] I had no choice.

[00:43:46] Randy Newman makes me angry.

[00:43:50] I hate Randy Newman.

[00:43:52] I know.

[00:43:53] That's a shame.

[00:43:53] I know you know.

[00:43:55] That was terrible.

[00:43:57] I mean, I noticed it hates him too.

[00:43:59] You are a good improv comedian, see?

[00:44:02] And you just...

[00:44:04] Oh, man.

[00:44:05] So, when he talks about just reality TV and everything, I think this one holds the most weight because it's the kind of thing that will never die, unfortunately.

[00:44:15] But yeah, I was guffaw.

[00:44:18] So, he mentions everything from stupid fantasy shows like Hercules to Baywatch and Judge Duty.

[00:44:24] But the Food Network one still has me on the floor because I'll never forget his various Emerald jokes.

[00:44:31] And he's just using all his classic catchphrase like, oh, bang.

[00:44:37] And Mike is talking about his insecurity on cooking and everything.

[00:44:41] He's like, all right, all right, I'll let you cook.

[00:44:43] Get on my face with that.

[00:44:48] Oh, man.

[00:44:49] It's just...

[00:44:50] It shows how some people are a little too much.

[00:44:52] Like, they're good in small doses.

[00:44:55] And if people...

[00:44:56] And I just like how he jokes about how it's like, I don't know why certain channels even exist.

[00:45:01] It's like, they're only good for like two to five hours, not 24 hours on live.

[00:45:08] Although I do with the Food Network.

[00:45:11] And I'm kind of surprised he didn't mention it because I think he would get a lot of mileage out of Iron Chef.

[00:45:17] Oh, well, I mean, was Iron Chef on in 2000?

[00:45:20] Yeah.

[00:45:21] What?

[00:45:22] Yeah, because I used to watch Iron Chef when I was still...

[00:45:25] Alton Brown would even do a segment where he did a MSTV type silhouette.

[00:45:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:31] It was like, man.

[00:45:32] But yeah, similar kinds of humor.

[00:45:38] He does a great roast of Ishtar, which is the worst fucking comedy ever made.

[00:45:44] Yeah, and I...

[00:45:46] All these other obscure movies where you're like, oh my god, how I've never seen that all movie.

[00:45:51] How?

[00:45:52] Oh, yeah.

[00:45:53] Ishtar's Warren Beatty, isn't it?

[00:45:55] Yeah.

[00:45:56] Yeah.

[00:45:56] Yeah.

[00:45:57] Let me double check that.

[00:45:58] Being an ego with terrible use of Justin Hoffman and Carol Kane.

[00:46:03] He's just like, ugh, kill me now.

[00:46:06] It was the Norbert of its day.

[00:46:11] Right.

[00:46:13] Yeah, because...

[00:46:14] Oh, that's right.

[00:46:16] Elaine May made it.

[00:46:18] To be fair, they weren't following anything she was scripting.

[00:46:22] Kevin Murphy goes after Warren Beatty, too.

[00:46:28] Oh, because of Town and Country.

[00:46:30] Town and Country.

[00:46:31] Yeah, which is also...

[00:46:33] I cringe these times HBO shows that, and lately they've been re-showing it.

[00:46:38] I'm like, why?

[00:46:39] Absolutely no one wants to watch that movie.

[00:46:43] Yeah, just...

[00:46:44] Ugh.

[00:46:46] Yeah, I mean, my Warren Beatty knowledge is limited to...

[00:46:51] Dick Tracy, which I catch myself arguing with.

[00:46:56] The Old Street Party episode was great.

[00:47:00] Oh, man.

[00:47:01] So, he does get his patch to Adams in some other cringey comedies that were...

[00:47:07] Yeah, the real, like, super soft cringe comedies that were, like, soft and sentimental.

[00:47:13] Ugh.

[00:47:14] They didn't even get the real story right.

[00:47:16] You're like, what?

[00:47:16] Yeah, it's funny, because, you know, he's talking about Twister.

[00:47:22] And now that we're...

[00:47:23] You know, we've had...

[00:47:25] We have Twisters, which is out right now.

[00:47:27] Oh, God.

[00:47:28] There was Independence Day Resurgence.

[00:47:29] And again, I love Independence Day, but it's a deeply riffable film.

[00:47:33] Like, it's a very silly movie.

[00:47:35] Yeah, it's fun if you're in the 50s mindset.

[00:47:37] You just gotta get past some of the other shit near the end,

[00:47:40] where you're just, like...

[00:47:41] The movie caves in on itself, despite it being fun.

[00:47:43] It's just...

[00:47:44] But, yeah.

[00:47:46] Like, it's such a perfect example of, like, how to build a blockbuster, but...

[00:47:50] And let the cast carry it.

[00:47:53] What?

[00:47:54] And let the cast carry it, basically.

[00:47:56] Yeah, and, like, build enough emotion, but not make it saccharine.

[00:48:02] But I do disagree, of course, with his...

[00:48:05] Saying that Bill Pullman is fundamentally unappealing.

[00:48:09] I think Bill Pullman is dumb hot.

[00:48:11] Yeah?

[00:48:11] Yeah, he does hate on a few actors that I'm just like, okay.

[00:48:15] I don't think they're that bad, but okay.

[00:48:18] Yeah.

[00:48:19] I know he doesn't like the Baldwins or Penns, and you're like, okay.

[00:48:24] I think you're letting their personal life invade you, but whatever.

[00:48:28] I get it.

[00:48:29] But, well, I don't like the...

[00:48:33] I don't like Alec Baldwin or the Penns either.

[00:48:34] Except for Michael Penn.

[00:48:35] He's my favorite Penn.

[00:48:40] Because...

[00:48:41] Chris Penn and Reservoir Dogs?

[00:48:43] No.

[00:48:44] Well, Chris Penn and Footloose.

[00:48:47] Well, yeah.

[00:48:48] He's good in that.

[00:48:49] Yeah.

[00:48:50] But Michael Penn wrote No Myth.

[00:48:52] So...

[00:48:53] And is married to Amy Mann.

[00:48:55] I see what you did there.

[00:48:56] Yep.

[00:48:57] Amy Mann is amazing.

[00:48:59] But, yeah.

[00:49:01] We used to show Independence Day every 4th of July.

[00:49:03] We kind of...

[00:49:05] With the riff track.

[00:49:07] It's a good soundtrack, and it is a good riff track.

[00:49:12] The Chick Flick one always has me hollering,

[00:49:15] and that should totally be taught in a screenwriting class.

[00:49:18] He just is talking about how Bridget loves these movies,

[00:49:20] and he just doesn't understand it, but he just loves...

[00:49:22] He finds their plots just kind of...

[00:49:25] It's kind of an example of I'm not laughing with you,

[00:49:29] I'm laughing at you kind of thing.

[00:49:30] He's just acknowledging the whole

[00:49:32] Nora Ephron, Meg Ryan movies,

[00:49:34] but then when he talks about my best friend's wedding

[00:49:37] and how he's like,

[00:49:38] it's my first Julia Roberts movie.

[00:49:40] And it's just so funny.

[00:49:42] He's not paying attention to the movie.

[00:49:43] He's just thinking of what movies she should be making.

[00:49:46] He's like,

[00:49:46] I'd like to see her blow up a cruise liner

[00:49:48] or be in an action movie.

[00:49:50] It's just like...

[00:49:51] Because I think we can all relate to that.

[00:49:53] We're always...

[00:49:53] There's always going to be that rare moment

[00:49:55] where we're watching a movie,

[00:49:56] but we're just kind of mentally out cold

[00:49:59] thinking of something else.

[00:50:00] Like, what we could be doing.

[00:50:04] Yeah.

[00:50:05] Although he does...

[00:50:06] Going back to our previous point,

[00:50:07] he does talk about breasts a lot.

[00:50:11] Like, he talks about Julia Roberts' breasts.

[00:50:12] He mentions...

[00:50:13] I forgot about that, so it's so funny.

[00:50:15] It's like he likes implied beautiful people,

[00:50:18] but he doesn't like this pornographic angle

[00:50:21] that movies often go to,

[00:50:23] like, I get it.

[00:50:24] All right.

[00:50:26] So...

[00:50:26] All I am...

[00:50:28] He makes fun of Marlon Brando,

[00:50:30] and rightfully so,

[00:50:31] for another Riff Trax perfect movie

[00:50:34] that is The Island of Dr. Morale.

[00:50:37] Yes.

[00:50:38] Bruce Willis, he's kind of kind to,

[00:50:40] but he also jokes how the guy

[00:50:41] will always just be running away

[00:50:43] from explosions and other shit.

[00:50:45] Yeah.

[00:50:46] And the Carrot Top one,

[00:50:47] I think that was the biggest bellyaching laugh

[00:50:50] at the time.

[00:50:50] It was like...

[00:50:51] And that goes back to your Norm MacDonald point.

[00:50:54] I think you remember when he roasted

[00:50:58] Chairman of the Board on Conan,

[00:50:59] and it's so funny

[00:51:01] because Courtney Thorne Smith

[00:51:01] was promoting that movie.

[00:51:03] She's like,

[00:51:03] I mean that movie.

[00:51:04] And he's like,

[00:51:04] you shouldn't have been.

[00:51:08] You didn't even see the same movie.

[00:51:11] It's funny because I always,

[00:51:12] in my head for so long,

[00:51:15] get Carrot Top and Pauly Shore confused.

[00:51:19] Same kind of unfunny comedian.

[00:51:22] Yeah.

[00:51:23] Like I never...

[00:51:24] I don't...

[00:51:25] I couldn't tell you anything about Carrot Top

[00:51:27] except that he's not an Encino man.

[00:51:29] He's been at a few comedy roasts,

[00:51:32] and each time people are like,

[00:51:34] dude,

[00:51:36] you're just hanging yourself.

[00:51:37] We don't even have a riff for you.

[00:51:40] That's just so unfunny.

[00:51:41] I won't know.

[00:51:41] Yeah, like,

[00:51:42] I don't know what Carrot Top is.

[00:51:45] And like that's...

[00:51:46] I don't think he knows what he is.

[00:51:46] That is a blissful point of ignorance for me.

[00:51:50] No, no, no.

[00:51:50] It's sort of like I don't...

[00:51:52] You're on the money.

[00:51:53] You're on the money.

[00:51:54] I don't think he knows what he is.

[00:51:55] I don't know anything about like

[00:51:55] saying yes to the dress.

[00:51:57] I don't follow Kardashians.

[00:51:58] Like there are just certain points

[00:52:00] of cultural illiteracy

[00:52:02] that I'm like...

[00:52:04] You know, I'm not...

[00:52:05] It's not like,

[00:52:06] oh, I'm better than you.

[00:52:07] I'm just like,

[00:52:07] I just don't know what that is.

[00:52:08] And I do not have the time to find out.

[00:52:10] Like, I don't know.

[00:52:11] I don't think anyone wants to find out.

[00:52:13] That's the other irony.

[00:52:14] It's like the minute you do find out,

[00:52:16] it's like that unfunny joke

[00:52:17] you heard at work,

[00:52:18] but everyone was talking about it.

[00:52:19] And you're like,

[00:52:20] what are they talking about?

[00:52:21] Oh, Lord.

[00:52:22] Yeah.

[00:52:23] I do have...

[00:52:24] I don't love Pauly Shore,

[00:52:26] but I have a little bit of an appreciation

[00:52:29] for Encino Man.

[00:52:30] Obviously, because it stars two Oscar winners.

[00:52:32] And there's a juice bar in Oklahoma City

[00:52:35] called Weez the Juice.

[00:52:35] Short round from Indiana Jones is even in it.

[00:52:40] So...

[00:52:40] Oh, man.

[00:52:41] But if you're ever in Oklahoma City,

[00:52:43] go to Weez the Juice.

[00:52:46] It's a fabulous juice bar in downtown.

[00:52:48] Hmm.

[00:52:51] So...

[00:52:51] It's my unpaid promo for Weez the Juice.

[00:52:54] Did the movie inspire you?

[00:52:54] Yeah, it's sort of a 90s theme.

[00:52:56] Like, all the drinks are named after...

[00:52:59] Punchlines.

[00:52:59] I think...

[00:53:00] Yeah, I think mine was the Fox Mulder.

[00:53:03] Like, all the drinks are named for 90s stuff.

[00:53:05] My sister got the Be Kind for Wine.

[00:53:09] Yes.

[00:53:09] That's my...

[00:53:10] That's my shout-out for Weez the Juice

[00:53:14] in downtown Oklahoma City.

[00:53:16] Perfect.

[00:53:17] I don't know.

[00:53:18] I'm actually...

[00:53:19] I will actually be in Oklahoma City

[00:53:21] this fall promoting my book,

[00:53:23] so I can Weez the Juice.

[00:53:25] Lovely.

[00:53:25] I also just discovered...

[00:53:27] And I...

[00:53:30] It's like...

[00:53:30] I know we're going, like, off a million topics.

[00:53:32] We were re-watching The Mummy,

[00:53:34] speaking again of late 90s blockbusters.

[00:53:36] Sweet.

[00:53:36] And I realized that the boss...

[00:53:41] Evie's boss in the beginning,

[00:53:43] the professor guy...

[00:53:45] Yeah.

[00:53:45] Yeah, yeah.

[00:53:45] He's the guy, the shop owner,

[00:53:47] that tells Brendan Fraser,

[00:53:50] no Weezing the Juice.

[00:53:52] Yeah.

[00:53:53] Eric Avari.

[00:53:54] Yep.

[00:53:54] I was like, I know him from somewhere.

[00:53:56] Where do I know him from?

[00:53:56] So I'm going through his IMDb,

[00:53:58] and I'm like, okay, right, of course.

[00:54:00] He's that go-to guy.

[00:54:01] When you need a diplomat or just a scholar,

[00:54:04] he's the dude.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:06] I was very excited by that.

[00:54:08] It's just like, it makes sense now.

[00:54:09] He was on a podcast I heard recently,

[00:54:11] and I forget which one,

[00:54:13] but he definitely said that

[00:54:14] Brendan was just the nicest dude ever,

[00:54:16] and he's classically trained in everything,

[00:54:18] and he's like,

[00:54:19] but I wanted to be to his level,

[00:54:20] and we're not even the same kind of thing.

[00:54:22] He cleared the room in a positive way.

[00:54:26] I love Brendan Fraser,

[00:54:27] and I stand by that Monkeybone

[00:54:30] is an underrated film.

[00:54:33] It's a great movie.

[00:54:34] It suffered from poor editing,

[00:54:38] but there's a really, really wonderful film in there.

[00:54:41] That is the example of a cult movie

[00:54:43] where you're just like,

[00:54:44] of all the stuff we're remastering,

[00:54:46] why are you not remastering

[00:54:47] all these other cult movies

[00:54:49] that are just party movies?

[00:54:52] It's actually like,

[00:54:53] there's such a good movie there,

[00:54:54] and if you watch all the deleted scenes,

[00:54:57] they fill out so much of the story,

[00:54:59] there's no reason they should have been deleted.

[00:55:01] Yeah.

[00:55:02] There's absolutely,

[00:55:03] you cut out main portions.

[00:55:07] Unfortunately, studios think less is more,

[00:55:10] and it's like,

[00:55:10] no, once we're past the content,

[00:55:13] now we want the substance.

[00:55:13] You just cut out all the substance.

[00:55:15] Yeah, you need to tell the story,

[00:55:18] and I'm a big fan of less is more.

[00:55:19] I do not,

[00:55:20] as your president,

[00:55:22] I'm going to make it a lot

[00:55:23] that no movie can be over 100 minutes.

[00:55:28] There is no Marvel movie

[00:55:30] that needs to be two hours long.

[00:55:32] There's not enough story.

[00:55:33] And you go by the Police Academy rule,

[00:55:35] which is stop after seven movies.

[00:55:38] So,

[00:55:38] No,

[00:55:39] there doesn't need to be more than seven, six.

[00:55:42] I'm on the Back to the Future rule

[00:55:44] that there should be three and no more.

[00:55:46] Oh, there you go.

[00:55:47] That works.

[00:55:47] Back to the Future is perfect set.

[00:55:49] Unless they're sort of open world,

[00:55:51] like I think there can be

[00:55:51] as many fucking alien movies

[00:55:53] as they want to make.

[00:56:00] three movies.

[00:56:01] How about that?

[00:56:02] There you go.

[00:56:03] Emmanuel versus aliens.

[00:56:04] Make it happen.

[00:56:05] As your president.

[00:56:06] As your president.

[00:56:08] You got my vote.

[00:56:09] I feel like I could get Tim Walls

[00:56:10] at least on that.

[00:56:11] Like, look.

[00:56:12] I think you'd be like,

[00:56:13] movies are too dang long.

[00:56:15] Okay.

[00:56:16] Put me in charge of cinema.

[00:56:18] Make me in charge.

[00:56:19] We're going to remaster.

[00:56:20] We're going to remaster.

[00:56:21] I'll do you one better, Libby.

[00:56:22] I will make you reprogram all TV.

[00:56:24] It's like,

[00:56:25] no more reality TV,

[00:56:26] no more typical things.

[00:56:28] Clear out that whole slot.

[00:56:30] TV,

[00:56:30] I'm sort of fine with like,

[00:56:31] eh, watch what you want to watch.

[00:56:32] I don't give a shit.

[00:56:34] But film, like.

[00:56:35] But you'd make it better.

[00:56:35] You'd make them all be edgy.

[00:56:37] Nah.

[00:56:38] I'm too lazy for that shit.

[00:56:40] I just like,

[00:56:41] I just want to program Tooby.

[00:56:43] That's what I want to do.

[00:56:44] I would nationalize Tooby.

[00:56:45] That would be a perfect example.

[00:56:47] Make everything more digital.

[00:56:48] As your president,

[00:56:49] I would nationalize Tooby.

[00:56:53] And we would bring back the video store

[00:56:55] as a cultural center.

[00:56:57] I wanted to work at a video store

[00:56:59] so bad growing up.

[00:57:00] Oh, man.

[00:57:01] So they're cultural centers.

[00:57:03] This is how you discover film.

[00:57:04] And it's not the same.

[00:57:05] The only thing that recreates that experience,

[00:57:08] honestly, is Tooby.

[00:57:09] Because Tooby contains so many

[00:57:12] fantastic garbage films.

[00:57:14] Even stuff that was good,

[00:57:16] but it just never found an audience.

[00:57:17] Or just stuff that's like,

[00:57:19] I meant to sprint that,

[00:57:21] but it was behind 50 other titles.

[00:57:23] Yeah.

[00:57:24] It's wonderful.

[00:57:25] Do you ever play Tooby Roulette?

[00:57:27] I know many podcasters who do.

[00:57:29] I have yet to take the challenge.

[00:57:31] Yeah.

[00:57:31] Where you,

[00:57:32] for those who don't know,

[00:57:34] Tooby Roulette is where you,

[00:57:35] you start with a Tooby movie.

[00:57:38] And then you move down to the viewers also watched.

[00:57:42] And some people roll,

[00:57:44] we roll a die in our household.

[00:57:46] And so you pick movie number five,

[00:57:49] and then you read that one,

[00:57:50] and then you roll the die on the people also watch.

[00:57:53] And you end up down these really incredible wormholes,

[00:57:55] and you find these,

[00:57:56] these weird documentaries.

[00:57:57] So if you're limited on time,

[00:57:59] whichever your fifth pick is,

[00:58:01] that's what you watch the following night.

[00:58:03] We usually just watch the trailers.

[00:58:05] We add stuff to our,

[00:58:06] our queue,

[00:58:07] but we've ended up finding some really,

[00:58:09] really neat films.

[00:58:10] Like we found one,

[00:58:11] uh,

[00:58:12] called.

[00:58:13] The thief collector,

[00:58:14] which was a documentary about a,

[00:58:17] um,

[00:58:19] a painting that had gone missing from an Arizona art museum in the eighties,

[00:58:24] only to be discovered.

[00:58:28] Um,

[00:58:29] I,

[00:58:29] in the,

[00:58:30] I want to say like 2018,

[00:58:34] 2019.

[00:58:35] In just a family's home.

[00:58:38] It's like,

[00:58:38] of the 20th century and the university of Arizona museum.

[00:58:45] So,

[00:58:45] wow.

[00:58:47] Uh,

[00:58:48] bookmarked.

[00:58:49] I will check it out.

[00:58:50] Thank you.

[00:58:50] Yeah.

[00:58:50] And we just found that during to be roulette.

[00:58:54] So it really does.

[00:58:55] It's the closest thing to going through the video store because it's,

[00:58:58] it's not curated the way like Netflix is or.

[00:59:02] Um,

[00:59:03] anything like that or Pluto,

[00:59:04] like discovering old movies on Pluto.

[00:59:06] I've been really watching the,

[00:59:08] uh,

[00:59:08] the universal monsters.

[00:59:10] Channel.

[00:59:11] Like watching all these like hammer horror,

[00:59:13] films.

[00:59:14] Did they have any without commercials?

[00:59:16] No,

[00:59:17] but I like commercials.

[00:59:18] Yeah.

[00:59:19] Because commercials.

[00:59:20] I,

[00:59:20] I like the to be commercials,

[00:59:22] but the Pluto ones would freeze up sometimes.

[00:59:25] Yeah.

[00:59:25] I don't like that.

[00:59:26] But,

[00:59:27] um,

[00:59:27] but the idea of just like a forced break.

[00:59:30] Reminds you like,

[00:59:31] get some,

[00:59:32] get some water,

[00:59:33] get,

[00:59:33] get up.

[00:59:34] Instead of typical cable where they play the same ad every five breaks.

[00:59:38] And you're like,

[00:59:38] stop it.

[00:59:39] I don't even care if it's the same ad because I'm in the bathroom.

[00:59:42] I'm getting into my pajamas.

[00:59:44] I'm brushing my teeth.

[00:59:45] I'm doing jumping jacks.

[00:59:46] I don't care.

[00:59:47] I'm not watching the ads,

[00:59:48] but this,

[00:59:50] again,

[00:59:50] this forced break.

[00:59:53] That you need that.

[00:59:54] We need to take as,

[00:59:55] as people,

[00:59:56] we can't stare at a screen all day.

[00:59:58] Get up and get some fucking water.

[01:00:03] Uh,

[01:00:03] so can you think of anyone who has 50 essays though in one book?

[01:00:09] No,

[01:00:09] well,

[01:00:10] probably.

[01:00:10] I don't read a lot of essay collections anymore.

[01:00:12] So probably plenty of them.

[01:00:14] Um,

[01:00:15] I just,

[01:00:15] I'm not thinking of who they are at the moment.

[01:00:19] Um,

[01:00:20] yeah,

[01:00:20] so,

[01:00:21] but he mentioned shopping at both Home Depot and Radio Shack.

[01:00:25] And like,

[01:00:25] man,

[01:00:26] what a telling tell Home Depot has been the same thing for years.

[01:00:30] Well,

[01:00:30] Radio Shack went chapter 11 years ago.

[01:00:33] Mm-hmm.

[01:00:34] Sort of moments in time.

[01:00:36] It's again,

[01:00:37] extremely Midwestern.

[01:00:38] Just like Mike Nelson is,

[01:00:40] he's,

[01:00:41] he's so wonderfully Midwestern.

[01:00:42] And I love that.

[01:00:44] He also doesn't really go so much for dad jokes,

[01:00:46] which is wild.

[01:00:47] Cause he does talk about being a dad.

[01:00:49] Mm-hmm.

[01:00:50] Just wild.

[01:00:51] But he has that,

[01:00:52] there's the chapter in,

[01:00:53] uh,

[01:00:53] Mind Over Matters where he talks about like morphing into a dad.

[01:00:58] Yes.

[01:00:58] Like his son's friends come over.

[01:01:02] He morphs into like a 1950s dad.

[01:01:05] Yes.

[01:01:06] Again,

[01:01:06] these great visual images.

[01:01:08] Um,

[01:01:09] he's so cute when he plays,

[01:01:11] um,

[01:01:13] the dad from Leave it to Beaver.

[01:01:15] Yeah.

[01:01:16] On a couple episodes.

[01:01:17] Cause like when he's in a card again,

[01:01:18] I just swoon.

[01:01:19] I just think he's so cute.

[01:01:22] Well,

[01:01:22] you might check,

[01:01:24] you're not on Facebook,

[01:01:25] but you might check out MST free K kink.

[01:01:28] No,

[01:01:29] I don't want to get involved in any weird scenes.

[01:01:31] All right.

[01:01:33] That said,

[01:01:34] if you ever look at my blue sky profile,

[01:01:36] um,

[01:01:36] it's a picture of me go,

[01:01:37] go dancing for Tom Servo.

[01:01:40] My gold boots.

[01:01:42] Oh,

[01:01:43] at least it's Tom and not crow.

[01:01:45] Crow's pretty perverted.

[01:01:46] Wow.

[01:01:48] Um,

[01:01:49] cool.

[01:01:49] My husband built me a Tom Servo puppet.

[01:01:52] I think one of the first,

[01:01:55] at least one of the first five Christmases we were together.

[01:01:57] And he manned the,

[01:01:59] uh,

[01:01:59] favor table at our wedding.

[01:02:01] He had a little top hat and everything.

[01:02:03] It was very cute.

[01:02:04] Yeah.

[01:02:05] All right.

[01:02:06] So.

[01:02:07] I see at any live event,

[01:02:08] I'll bring my crow and Servo along.

[01:02:12] I tried putting gypsy together and then COVID hit.

[01:02:15] I was like,

[01:02:16] I'm good.

[01:02:17] Yeah.

[01:02:18] I'm a lot of trouble to go through to get a,

[01:02:21] what was it?

[01:02:22] Like a car seat mixed in with like a baby carriage.

[01:02:26] You're like,

[01:02:27] ah,

[01:02:27] it's a lot.

[01:02:28] Yeah.

[01:02:29] So are yours built?

[01:02:30] Um,

[01:02:31] they're customized from eBay.

[01:02:33] Yeah.

[01:02:34] Okay.

[01:02:34] Yeah.

[01:02:34] Mine's like a kit.

[01:02:36] So you,

[01:02:37] you went ahead and they did,

[01:02:38] you didn't let them rebuild it for you.

[01:02:40] You're just like,

[01:02:40] I'm up to the challenge.

[01:02:41] Yeah.

[01:02:42] No,

[01:02:42] my husband got it for me and then put it together for me.

[01:02:45] Um,

[01:02:45] he's in our dining room right now.

[01:02:48] Um,

[01:02:48] he shows up,

[01:02:49] we do a cult movie series,

[01:02:51] um,

[01:02:52] with friends and,

[01:02:53] you know,

[01:02:54] he shows up during some of those,

[01:02:55] um,

[01:02:57] so,

[01:02:58] which is fun.

[01:02:59] The last one we showed,

[01:03:01] we did cutthroat Island,

[01:03:03] which is one of my favorite films,

[01:03:04] which I would love to see Riff Trax take on.

[01:03:07] Right.

[01:03:07] Because it's just such an incredibly,

[01:03:09] what?

[01:03:10] Well,

[01:03:10] what's it called?

[01:03:11] Movie Rhode Island?

[01:03:12] Uh,

[01:03:13] cutthroat Island.

[01:03:14] Cutthroat.

[01:03:15] Oh.

[01:03:16] Gina Davis.

[01:03:16] And I thought he mentioned it in movie Megan Sheehan.

[01:03:20] Um,

[01:03:20] I,

[01:03:21] I don't remember if he does.

[01:03:23] I know you like it because the cast is cute.

[01:03:25] I can't get through it because of the pyrotechnics and tech stuff just being so bad.

[01:03:30] Oh,

[01:03:31] I love it.

[01:03:31] I love that movie so much.

[01:03:33] It's just a,

[01:03:33] it's a great film and made me the woman I am today.

[01:03:37] Like in all senses.

[01:03:38] Like,

[01:03:39] it's one of those,

[01:03:39] like when I look at the way cinema,

[01:03:41] uh,

[01:03:42] and television has defined my life,

[01:03:44] there's like,

[01:03:45] there's very specific,

[01:03:45] there's like the moment that I saw Star Wars,

[01:03:48] like marked a very specific chapter of my life.

[01:03:52] Uh,

[01:03:53] the nightmare before Christmas marks a very specific chapter.

[01:03:55] Um,

[01:03:56] so you let them be chapters in your life,

[01:03:59] but some of them like have had such profound impact that,

[01:04:04] that impact is felt even now.

[01:04:06] And cutthroat Island is one of those films where I can directly,

[01:04:10] like,

[01:04:11] I can see how my life like fully changed in that moment of like who I am and my

[01:04:15] sense of self.

[01:04:16] Um,

[01:04:16] the shield is like that.

[01:04:17] Um,

[01:04:19] the shield and MSC 3K are probably the two shows that have defined my life

[01:04:23] the most profoundly.

[01:04:26] Like that have had a genuine effect on who I am.

[01:04:29] Like,

[01:04:30] and the paths my life has taken,

[01:04:32] which is fascinating when I think about it.

[01:04:36] Because I came upon MSC 3K by accident.

[01:04:40] Many of us did.

[01:04:41] And I love that.

[01:04:42] Space Ghost,

[01:04:42] same thing.

[01:04:43] And like,

[01:04:44] Space Ghost.

[01:04:45] Space Ghost.

[01:04:47] and then,

[01:04:48] I mean,

[01:04:49] obviously anyone who's listened to the Shattered Shields heard my shield story

[01:04:52] and all of my shield stories and all of my shield lusts.

[01:04:56] the first podcaster to take over someone else's podcast

[01:05:04] speaking of interest i think that's what we like about any

[01:05:08] person when they share what they're inspired by because it makes sense what they're into

[01:05:16] with mike you kind of get a general sense of what kind of comedy he admires like he's definitely

[01:05:21] going to be in all kinds of things like andy griffith and jonathan winters and listen to

[01:05:25] over the top kind of people i know he mentions he has a big crush on madeline stowe and some other

[01:05:31] actors whenever he's at awards shows for they won what did they win peabody peabody yes it's like

[01:05:39] something that's not as talked about now uh uh the hugo award for sci-fi and you're like man

[01:05:48] talk about an achievement that is really understand that's right i forgot about that

[01:05:54] i i just kind of dig how half the time he's seeing some of his icons and then he still

[01:05:59] has a makes fun of a running joke that him and the casting crew have had and said

[01:06:03] unfortunately i did not run into joe don baker yes they're looking over their shoulder afraid

[01:06:10] that he is going to kill them for riffing his movies which is funny because i had mentioned

[01:06:14] something about joe don baker and like riffing on him and frank very gently corrected me he's like

[01:06:20] no he's actually quite good it's just these are bad movies and i was like frank that you're such a

[01:06:24] beautiful car son trace said that in an interview back in like 2016 he's like hey he's amazing in

[01:06:30] that edge of darkness miniseries from the 80s but that's just it you take him out of the james bond

[01:06:35] films and you see him in some occasional b movies where you're like my god he's hamming it up

[01:06:40] mm-hmm um but yeah i was actually i was just thinking about joe don baker um the other day

[01:06:47] i was like he's kind of what you expect when you see a small town sheriff

[01:06:52] yeah um and then i was like is walking tall on

[01:06:55] to be which it isn't which seems like a real waste

[01:06:59] i know when you find a movie that's like not on to be like i like you feel insulted you're like

[01:07:05] but that's probably that's like that's the perfect movie for to be i still hunt down dvds and blu-rays

[01:07:10] and i'm just like oh yeah i know you're a physical media person too but it's just like this is the

[01:07:15] only place you're gonna be able to find this one yeah um to be sort of like what i put on

[01:07:22] like i suddenly i'm like i need to start watching maryland monroe films right now

[01:07:27] like i just decided to get i we watched a documentary called schlock on tubi and then

[01:07:35] that led me down the doris wishman wormhole um

[01:07:39] i'm doris wishman love doris wishman love her i think high down the sun is genuinely like

[01:07:47] marvelous little film we're gonna show it at our cult movie party at some point it's

[01:07:50] fun watching exploitation films in fact you would love the podcast cinema psyops

[01:07:55] where they go into various b movies and exploitation films and it's just always so

[01:08:00] fun how they just get to the end of the tunnel i definitely think they did a wishman movie at one

[01:08:04] point but it's just funny yeah sure they did she's one of the most uh prolific female directors of

[01:08:08] all time but it's just it's funny it's like what what is a well-intended movie that didn't state all

[01:08:14] the points it needed to versus what's a trashy bad movie which versus which is one where just

[01:08:20] took a while getting to the point yeah treating the viewer like an idiot and then running in circle

[01:08:28] and then keeping you awake because of all the other just shock value on display yeah oh my god

[01:08:37] and yes court is a misty but it's funny how they'll go into different movies you're like hey joe bob

[01:08:43] really hates this movie i think it's fun the hell so oh i'm yeah it was interesting because i was

[01:08:48] thinking about uh the vampire enemy documentary and was very surprised i think one of the real

[01:08:55] shortcomings of that is that they didn't interview people like joe bobbriggs like spankooly like joel

[01:09:01] hodgson there's a one to talk about sticks that has joel and i forget the name of it but it's a really

[01:09:07] good like the evolution of the b movie or some shit like that but i can't find it anywhere like yeah

[01:09:14] just because i mean like probably the movie clips i don't know like vampyra had such a huge effect on

[01:09:22] like she created the genre yes like making fun of these movies and there's no mst3k there's no

[01:09:29] mike nelson without vampyra you don't get elvira without vampyra yeah you absolutely i mean that's a

[01:09:34] direct line um unfortunately but i have a vampire wallet i get a lot of compliments with the coffin

[01:09:42] shaped wall of the vampire on um and actually i've got a picture of her um uh on my wall right now

[01:09:49] that i picked up at a flea market in rochester i mean that's basically the character in i mean to just

[01:09:56] it'd be funny if you interviewed people how many of them know her from old replayed reruns of her

[01:10:03] talk show versus her appearance in plan nine nobody knows her from her talk show because um it aired in

[01:10:09] such a small area and there's no um there's absolutely no surviving footage of it all right

[01:10:14] i i didn't know if they replayed it at all like no it was it was live so there's no it doesn't exist

[01:10:21] completely lost except for there's one promo yeah that exists jesus yeah keep circulating those tapes

[01:10:30] so and it's one of those things like she's so famous this is visual aspect but nobody has really

[01:10:39] ever actually seen next book how many people do you do that with keep circulating my book

[01:10:47] i should um although i kind of want them to buy their own copies well true

[01:10:54] it could be a library copy yeah no i'm happy with people however uh however they acquire it i don't

[01:11:00] love it when people buy it on ebay though so that's the best because it's like buy it from a secondhand

[01:11:06] book book bookseller like don't go to ebay ebay's the best song or get your uh you know get it from

[01:11:14] the library true but it is the best weird owl song i'm gonna go with frank's 2000 inch tv

[01:11:23] it's the best weird house song it's all good i just did a bracket of weird owl songs and that was

[01:11:29] very hard yeah like get rid of all the r kelly spoofs those are okay they're not and i hate r kelly so

[01:11:36] much so sorry not a big fan fuck of that fuck that dude all right um if you were to see him

[01:11:44] conceive another book if he had some time on his hands what would you like to see mike cover i'd

[01:11:48] like to see an updated version of movie mega cheese yeah see him comment on all the overrated

[01:11:56] blockbusters that are now oscar bait or superhero or confusing yeah films because they like i it'd be

[01:12:05] interesting i think especially to see him take on the the indie genre of the uh early 2000s like

[01:12:13] i'd love to see him just sort of eat zach braff's lunch yeah i wasn't a fan of those movies you know

[01:12:19] i'm sure he could just take diablo cody to the cleaners um so something like that i mean

[01:12:26] the hyper bloated blockbuster is diablo cody done anything else i've only known her from

[01:12:33] jenny yeah no i mean she just had um lisa frankenstein oh very well received jennifer's

[01:12:43] body is getting a big reevaluation i think she's terrible um i just i don't like her work

[01:12:51] um but yeah like i think also the older i get the more i really look at some of those deeply

[01:12:58] self-involved uh mid-2000s films and think oh my god i just like i channel courtney love

[01:13:07] in um the song awful it's like i would just shut up you're only 16

[01:13:13] like i i was thinking about ghost world a little while ago and i'm like oh my god you're such a

[01:13:17] little brat grow up but i remember how much that movie like meant to me and how much garden state

[01:13:23] meant to me and like all of these like these films that i'm embarrassed to say like meant something to

[01:13:27] me at that time and again we talk about like film defining eras of your life um i'd say it was just

[01:13:33] an emo phase for many of these movies they just had an unusual frank way of looking at life but

[01:13:40] that was just a cover of how there wasn't much of a plot yeah and it's just like a lot of staring

[01:13:46] uh they do like making both of that rip tracks people are staring now yeah it's just so much

[01:13:52] staring and and they they lack a certain staying power and again that i think some movies are just

[01:13:59] so bizarre and so artistically out there and maybe don't succeed but like stay with you like a neil

[01:14:06] green film stays with you it like sticks to your ribs it's not good but but it meant something um

[01:14:13] but no it doesn't mean anything it's just like you're just you just it's somehow arresting you just like

[01:14:19] you think about it it's a burger that even the best probiotic won't break down into your stomach

[01:14:24] it's just like it's stuck in there just lives in there i find it even funnier how it took everyone

[01:14:31] a while to just kind of blow off deploying dynamite and that was my movie i was just like meh i didn't

[01:14:37] laugh once but i kind of get why people like it but it's kind of really a big stretch to call it a great

[01:14:41] comedy it's funny because uh i think seeing that movie with my now husband is the reason we got

[01:14:49] married because uh my husband uh went to sva school of visual arts in new york city and he's so he's

[01:14:56] still so cool but like when we were uh you know finishing college and in our early 20s i was just

[01:15:03] like i was obsessed with him and had been obsessed with him for years and couldn't believe he was

[01:15:07] dating me um and he's just he's so handsome and he goes to art school and he's just a far cry from

[01:15:14] the guy i dated previously he was just a weird star wars dork um with no riz as the kids put it um

[01:15:22] and we saw napoleon dynamite at a little theater in the east village and the whole time i'm sitting

[01:15:32] there i'm like this isn't good i don't like this but i'm thinking like he probably really likes it

[01:15:38] because he's really smart and watches movies like you know kids and requiem for a dream and like

[01:15:44] watches like real smart people movies he's so deep and i'm just like a dumb idiot whose favorite movie

[01:15:50] is that i remember before christmas and has seen plant nine from outer space a bunch of times

[01:15:54] and he was sitting there thinking like i bet she thinks it's like libby's really into cult cinema

[01:15:59] she's so smart like i bet she thinks this is a really good movie and we get out we're walking

[01:16:05] back to his dorm i don't remember which one of us said it first but i was like yeah that wasn't a

[01:16:11] very good movie and the other was like oh my god thank you for that so i think we tried to be polite

[01:16:16] and you're like he's waiting for you to just say the magic word in that moment i think we realized like

[01:16:23] we we could connect it was like a real like moment of connection that i had so like i've got this weird

[01:16:30] soft spot for napoleon dynamite and that i didn't love it but i did it again it did it was just like

[01:16:36] okay like we don't have to put on airs for the other person i just such a relief i'd share some

[01:16:42] bad movie night memories with friends and siblings it's like oh remember when you wanted to walk out of

[01:16:49] that bad movie yeah oh i'm remember when you were enjoying it but then i i think the problem is the

[01:16:55] experience is so larger than life people just unfortunately are just not looking at the

[01:17:00] details that someone like you or i find so blatantly obvious but unfortunately the theater kind of does

[01:17:05] that people are just looking at the spectacle and then they go back and they're like oh the dialogue

[01:17:09] shit or the plot doesn't make sense that that's i think what i love so much about movies

[01:17:15] is is is that that experience the experience of watching it of being present of of seeing something

[01:17:24] with other people you can watch the dumbest movie in the world but if the the audience you're watching

[01:17:30] it with will have an effect and like i remember going to see attack of the clones being the only person

[01:17:37] in my cohort that got dressed up because again my boyfriend was an absolute diff like he was a

[01:17:45] fucking drill bit um and you know watching people lightsaber fight it's not a good movie

[01:17:53] it's not even a particularly good memory but it is a strong memory um

[01:18:00] and you know every year at the barrel house writer camp we watch roadhouse

[01:18:07] and that's something that i brought um i was just like no tonight we're watching roadhouse

[01:18:13] and we watched it and watching roadhouse with drunk writers is just a wonderful experience like

[01:18:20] people just shout at the screen and they hoot and they holler and they boo brad wesley and it's it's

[01:18:25] amazing and every year uh when i go back there are people who say are we watching roadhouse this

[01:18:31] year like of course i'm here we're watching roadhouse like this isn't up for discussion

[01:18:35] and there are always people who have never seen it and none of them have ever walked away and on like

[01:18:43] an unchanged person it changes people and i think that's the power of cinema and groups

[01:18:48] and i think that's the power of finding the right audience to watch a movie with

[01:18:52] and sometimes that audience is you and your sister on couch with a host and two robots

[01:19:00] on a saturday and i think about my sister and i watching mst3k every saturday in the late 90s on

[01:19:07] sci-fi and it's such a treasured part of who i am and that to me is like i don't want to get like

[01:19:17] nicole kidman here but that is the power of film and the power of the experience of watching movies

[01:19:26] together that's what kevin murphy writes about and you know mike goes a completely different way but he

[01:19:31] also understands that movies are to be discussed they're to be talked about they're to be loved

[01:19:37] and made fun of and cherished and hated and there's there's nothing worse than a movie that

[01:19:44] you forget true one that you're just like what what was that plot even about the worst part is when

[01:19:51] you got a movie that just doesn't deliver on anything and you're just like i want i don't

[01:19:55] need it to be successful i needed to just be done with a sense of fun i need it to to be something

[01:20:03] other than me eating popcorn for two hours and you know i've eaten a lot of popcorn and there are

[01:20:13] movies that i don't really remember i definitely um i know i saw i mean my friend mike um go see a

[01:20:23] lot of movies with me and mike loves movies mike will mike watches so many movies but i'd be like

[01:20:28] hey let's go see maze runner 3 he's like why do you want to see maze runner 3 and walton goggins is in it

[01:20:33] isn't it i'm like no yes yes that's why i saw tomb raider i saw predators like three times in

[01:20:40] theaters but actually i have a real soft spot for predators that was the first thing i ever saw him

[01:20:44] in he's great he's great and everything he just and people are finally catching on and i want to be

[01:20:49] like oh i was into him years ago what's the tattoo of oh that's my sister he's great he's amazing and

[01:20:57] everything like fully brings it and he's one of those actors and i could talk about walton goggins

[01:21:00] all goddamn day spent you know uh what four and a half seasons next comic con doing the same thing

[01:21:08] what next comic con if he's there libby's getting her tickets he's actually going to be at a comic

[01:21:15] con at the end of the month the whole strike team is going to be there and i'm not going to be there

[01:21:21] i can't make it a reunion it's a photo op uh my co-host drew is going on our behalf i told him to

[01:21:27] kiss walton goggins full on the mouth of the tongue and he did not say he wouldn't i think he's married

[01:21:33] living so what oh my god so standards anyway drew is not and drew is on my behalf i don't think

[01:21:46] he's going to because drew puts up with a lot of my shenanigans but i don't think

[01:21:51] he would do that on my behalf but drew did a good job interviewing him back in the day just because

[01:21:56] it's like it brought them out of their shell everyone was getting used to what a podcast was

[01:22:01] it was like hey we're acknowledging what you guys have done all this year all these years and how it

[01:22:07] has influenced your career drew's a good interview but um yeah um interview mike

[01:22:14] i should interview mike it should be like hey so mst3k but what's your favorite replacements album

[01:22:19] it's you know and and why isn't it don't tell us all

[01:22:26] so don't tell us all is underrated i like really want to talk to him about this i really just want

[01:22:30] to go to him and be like yeah mst3k is great but what are your thoughts on i you know pleased to meet

[01:22:38] me don't tell a soul are you talking about the latest movie no it's the replacements oh oh you're

[01:22:45] talking about songs okay that's it um up up up uh what ah shit i'm just gonna bring this up um when

[01:22:54] do you think you're gonna pop back on uh christmas creeps i don't know i i just love how it's just

[01:23:00] christmas all year yeah i'm i i'm going to joe's wedding reception at the end of november

[01:23:08] so i will actually get to meet joe so maybe we'll decide then we actually need to um uh do

[01:23:13] another episode of ost party it's just it's been a little crazy this summer between him planning

[01:23:20] wedding and me um i with another book coming out it's it's been so much

[01:23:28] nice so yeah but this is always fun um i'm sorry it took us so long to to get to to hear it's okay

[01:23:36] dude dad we got crazy schedules yeah but finally getting to to talk about you know my true love of mike

[01:23:45] because i do i think he's dumb hot

[01:23:50] yeah i just i know it's the way you're saying it i get it i

[01:23:54] it's just cute every year we watch santa claus and i have to like when he when they do the uh

[01:24:01] santa claus he's got the rolled up jacket sleeves i just got like roll number yeah i get like a little

[01:24:07] blustered and he's like you're gonna be all right i'm like i'm fine

[01:24:15] love a midwestern man

[01:24:19] i'm almost the same way about jd risner from yacht rock but he was real cute too still is cute

[01:24:26] i i just found it so funny how i didn't know that the web series yacht rock is what

[01:24:31] yeah they developed the term john but yeah the term came later it's like no they created it

[01:24:37] they created that that's what i mean but like for the music that had been out for a while they didn't

[01:24:43] label it as that gotcha gotcha gotcha that's funny so all right hey how do we wind this out uh we we

[01:24:55] let you plug a few things so yeah you're gonna be at a few expos we got this coming out ironically

[01:25:00] for cat and mouse week i'll see what you did there ah oh uh yeah when is it coming out

[01:25:08] for cat and mouse week when is that i'm gonna make me date the episode already it's for

[01:25:18] yeah yeah yeah that will be third october week okay um yeah i'm just trying to think like what i'm

[01:25:28] gonna be places no fine um yeah so uh prompt me for that oh my god lovey where are you gonna be next

[01:25:39] well i'll be hopefully out uh promoting my new novel negative girl which you can get on uh

[01:25:48] negative

[01:25:50] let's make it for a steely dance song which should come as no surprise to absolutely nobody and i put

[01:25:56] out my challenge there are two shield references in there that no one has managed to find

[01:26:05] you made it too cryptic it's too cryptic they're both really kind of dumb

[01:26:12] uh they're extremely there's there are no dumb shield references i already got in a fight these

[01:26:18] are very very silly like real i just got in a discord fight uh when i was bringing up how that

[01:26:27] i was trying to break a tie both them in the wire often brought up in best procedurals of all time and

[01:26:32] someone was like oh they were picking a sign saying it's not even close i'm like it's absolutely close

[01:26:38] yeah uh but no i was gonna say that the jokes are they're what joel hodgson would call a swiss army

[01:26:45] joke that's joel so if you can find them i will i don't know you won't get any prize but um

[01:26:57] i will tout your name from my social media

[01:27:02] nerd

[01:27:07] uh and drew it's like i'm gonna find them i'm like you're not gonna find them i will find you

[01:27:11] and i will kill um uh we how long does it often take you to uh conjure up a uh story that you want

[01:27:23] to dedicate time to it's just like oh i have i have them all the time in my head it's just a matter

[01:27:30] this is more than a dream or just a random vision you're like i want to flesh this out now yeah

[01:27:36] yep so i've got i've got them in the you know a stack of them waiting in the wings to be written

[01:27:44] nice yeah so we'll see

[01:27:49] very nice very nice um all together um what do you recommend everybody do to just

[01:27:59] find their inner peace since it's been a rickety rockety just divided world these last few years

[01:28:05] i just have to go back to what my friend uh katherine cold iron said watch bad movies make great art

[01:28:12] perfect i i am so glad you brought that book up i already have it in the cart i'm

[01:28:16] it looks like i mean you know something's good when craig sesterio from the room has given it

[01:28:21] this bridge yeah no cat is she's amazing um that book is spectacular um and i got to hang out with

[01:28:32] her a little bit at writer camp this year's writer camp barrel house writer camp um we go every year

[01:28:39] and i just i just love her i think she's amazing i also picked up her um her short story collection

[01:28:46] wire mothers nice lovely lovely hey always a delight especially having any comedian on here just

[01:28:57] because you guys flesh out the world and have it make sense after something a historian can't even

[01:29:03] put into context it's been a wild ride but thank you so much for having me this is always such a

[01:29:09] pleasure totally mr historian can you please go off book follow us on the web on facebook twitter and

[01:29:24] instagram the podcast is available on podbean spotify iheart radio anchor apple and anywhere else

[01:29:31] podcasts are available feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites

[01:29:37] thanks a million for listening

[01:29:39] it's a jacked up review show