Exclusive Interview with Keith Ulrey (Drummer for Pohgoh)!

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[00:00:58] Welcome, welcome. I'm so glad we could do this and this is delightful. The 90s are back, baby. Yeah, for me they never left. Right, there you go. So yeah, whatever you want to do, whatever you want to talk about, I'm good.

[00:01:15] Wonderful. Ladies and gents, in the studio right now we have drummer Keith Ulrey of the wonderful 90s indie group Pogo, and they are back with a vengeance since 2016. That's right. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Loud in your eardrums. If I had to describe you guys, I don't know why, I just always got kind of Ruka Salt kind of vibes from you, just like some of the other kind of undergrounds. Yeah, that's cool.

[00:01:46] I'm embarrassed to say I just now discovered you. You know, it's funny, since we've gotten back together, we've released two albums, and we actually have a lot of people over the last decade, I guess now, that only know us from... The recent... Currently, yeah, for real. Which is fine. It's awesome, you know?

[00:02:08] I mean, we're making music just to have fun and express ourselves and continue to write with each other and be a band. And, you know, of course, as any band, you want any kind of listener, no matter what their age or demographic. And we do have older fans, you know, that stuck with all this time, too. But, yeah, it's a real thing for us, the new friends and fans here. Does that kind of get into where were you when we needed you?

[00:02:38] Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know about that. But, you know, we're happy for it. You know what I mean? It makes us feel good. Lovely. So you guys formed in 94 in Tampa. That's right. You're back in 2016. But what was the overall, like, inspiration? Like, were you always music heads? Because from what other interviews I saw of you guys, it just kind of came up naturally. And then... You mean from the beginning? From the beginning, yeah. Yeah, you know, we just...

[00:03:06] We all met through the music scene. You know, there wasn't any kind of premeditated, like, oh, let's form this kind of band. You know what I mean? Like, the original bass player, Brad, was an old friend of mine. He was the very first bass player I had ever played with years prior when I first started learning drums, you know? And we met at a show and he introduced me to Matt, the guitarist. And he's like, hey, we got this new band with this young singer.

[00:03:36] And I was like, oh, that sounds cool. And then about three months later, hey, the drummer, it's not working out. Can you fill in? Yeah, I'd love to. And then here I am, you know, X years later, still in the band. But yeah, no, there was never any agenda or let's start a band like this. It was just friends. And we met, you know, Brad introduced me to Matt and Matt introduced me to Kobe, our original singer. And it just kind of went from there.

[00:04:03] So yeah, as a disclaimer, we'll mention their names multiple different times. But for those listening, yes. The group was the quad group of Suzy Olray as vocals and guitar. Matt Slate, the guitarist. And Keith, who we're speaking with today on drums. And now you have new bassist Brian Roberts. Yeah. And Brian has pretty much been with us for this latest tenure that we've been together. Perfect.

[00:04:33] And your musician and producer was Jay Robbins, who had done similar groups and on the punk rock scene. That's right. Yep. Jay Robbins, who was famously known from the 90s of being in the band Dollbox. And then you get into the 2000s and he had other bands burning airlines, panels, Office of Future Plans. And he's still making music and touring. And he currently just tours under his own name.

[00:04:58] He's currently on tour right now doing a world tour opening for Sugar, Bob Mould's band. And so, yeah, he's he's having the time of his life right now. But, yeah, the two albums that we've written and recorded since getting back together, we went up to Baltimore and had the pleasure of working with Jay on both of those albums. I got to say, Apple Music is working in your guys' favor. And I'm not trying to plug a giant corporation or anything. But like, for real, like when I was just checking out a few different groups. So, like, it's so funny.

[00:05:28] Wait, my my pal Cliff, who's in the Florida scene, was like, I'm going to a concert for the 90s group card. I'm like, I'm looking him up. Yeah. And then, of course, as music algorithm works, you might like customers also. And that led to a shared album you guys did with Pair of the West. And yes, it's the domino effect. Then that works to dim work and interact. And it's like, wow.

[00:05:56] Wow. And so have you you're in that scene where have you been able to all be on the same stage together? All of you guys. So those bands are primarily from Japan and Card and Pair of the West and Dim Mac. And we we did a four way split ten inch that came out for our last tour of Japan two years ago. And so we did five dates.

[00:06:26] But then the fifth and final date of the tour was all four bands on the split. Oh, nice. So that that was really cool. Everybody can share this. Yeah. Yeah. I got to say. Some of this is a little earlier, but I really dig both you guys, the single weeds and anger in the belly. Because. Oh, yeah. Thank you. You're very. Soaring is kind of the right word.

[00:06:52] Like, I just have visuals soaring through my mind when I'm listening to this as if I'm walking down the street. Sure. But what were your other influences like growing up? Like, did you just kind of just love listening to other alternative and folk kind of stuff? Well, I'm a little bit older than everybody in the band. So, like, I'm almost 55 right now. So when we were a band originally, we were separated by two years. So I was 22.

[00:07:20] Brad, our bassist, was 20. Matt was 18. And Kobe, our original singer, was only 16. Man. Still in high school. We all, you know, as far as right then. Yeah, we were totally immersed into 90s indie rock, Super Chunk, Velocity Girl, stuff like that. Yellow Tango. But as far as myself personally, you know, I grew up on classic rock, listening to the radio, you know, Super Tramp, Led Zeppelin, stuff like that.

[00:07:48] And then through the 80s, I got into, you know, the MTV stuff, Men at Work and Flock of Seagulls. Which I still love all that stuff. That's great. And then that was kind of like a stepping stone into the alternative bands like U2 and REM and stuff like that. And then from there, it just kind of, you know, I got into straight edge hardcore. And so I had a little bit of that while also listening to, you know, the gear and Depeche Mode.

[00:08:17] And so I've always had just kind of listened to a lot of different stuff. But I guess under the large umbrella, you would say it was the alternative duet. And so when Pogo formed, you know, it wasn't any, I wasn't like pursuing a specific avenue. I just, I've always been a fan of indie rock and indie pop and female singers at the time. And I was like, yeah, that sounds perfect. You know, and we all were just kind of, you know.

[00:08:47] According to your interview with Pugtastic, that was based on an actual Pogo ball, a childhood toy. I'm like, that's awesome. The name you mean? Yeah. Oh, no, it was, it was made up. The word was made up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of Pogo stick. Yeah, yeah, Pogo stick. I know our singer at the time, Kobe, she just apparently just wrote the word down and with the spelling and just said, this is what we're going to be called. And we were still friends with Kobe to this day.

[00:09:17] We jokingly thank her because we say it's the most Googleable name because there's no such thing as Pogo with H's like that. No. We thanked her ahead of time. Who would have known 20 years later that, you know, we could use the word and find ourselves very easily online, you know. Oh, and you guys keep stressing the do it yourself routine, but that is neat how you can kind of be one of the many stars of that trend. And I appreciate that.

[00:09:49] But what would you say keeps you going where you're like, I got time to jam and practice and collaborate? Well, definitely as we've gotten older, it's a little harder because a couple of the band members have kids and, you know, spouses and other lives. And so things do. So, you know, when we were younger, it was like practice twice a week, a couple hours at a time, you know. And now it's if we can get together once a week for 90 minutes, you know.

[00:10:18] But as far as the push to keep us going, it's the same as it always was. It's just the desire and love to be creative and be creative with other people. Create, you know what I mean? It's like I've never been a singular artist as far as like a painter or a graphic designer. I've always been in a band. And and so I I really enjoy that group. Aspect of creating and arranging music, you know what I mean?

[00:10:48] And I think that that's the same drive going today, just a little bit of a slower pace. Sweet. And it's also kind of neat how, you know, you were stating previously in other chats how you identify with all kind of other rock, indie rock, emo rock, alt rock group.

[00:11:09] But what do you make of just how no one can label you and how that kind of is your own part of the originality is like I can't just be lampooned into one corner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and we've that's been something that we've been aware of and recognized from day one, you know, because we knew that the music we were making was influenced by what we were into at the time. You know, what would have been called college rock or alternative rock or indie rock at the time.

[00:11:39] And I mentioned Velocity Girl and there's a New York band called Versus who are heavily influential on us. So we we knew that we knew that we sounded like that. But because of our personal backgrounds in the scene and connections with like hardcore bands and post punk bands and stuff, we took a very, very DIY approach. So when we would go on tour.

[00:12:05] We would play a basement of a punk rock house one night and then the very next night in another city playing a regular venue club or, you know, doorman and sound guy.

[00:12:19] So we were very, very appreciative that we had that kind of appeal that could kind of snake, you know what I'm saying, from from from genre to genre or scene to scene and be appreciated in all in all aspects. You know what I mean? Like we never really played any places that we thought, oh, that didn't go very well or will never. You know what I mean? Like that those people, you know, weren't really our vibe or our scene.

[00:12:47] We kind of like could can blend in, you know, pretty well. That's a good. Now that provoked me to ask this other follow up questions. It's like I would always hear in different, especially just different radio and podcast interviews with different comedians, how Vegas didn't used to be as friendly for like improv comedians or only comedy. So back in the yellow pages days, how pre-internet versus what you do now, how would you scout out a club seeing if it might be a good fit or not?

[00:13:17] Like, well, well, you would talk to other people. You know, you've been there. You played there. Yeah, you're on tour. But also as far as the DIY scene, there used to be a really independent magazine that you could buy at your local alternative record store or punk rock record store. And the magazine was called and forgive me for the title. Book your own fucking life.

[00:13:42] And what you would do is people would submit to it and say, hey, I'm in Tampa, Florida. My name's Keith. I can help put on shows of this genre. I do them in my basement or I do them in my living room or that. And so that book, you could just map out your tour, say, OK, we're going to be in Richmond, Virginia. And you would flip to Virginia, Richmond and start looking at some of the people that it submitted.

[00:14:06] And so that book, you talk to any DIY punk musician in the 90s and they're going to mention that book. Sweet. And yeah. And that book really it was a magazine, really. And it was published, I want to say, annually or biannually. And that's primarily how we book most of our tours through that. And then even some of the regular clubs would even get information in there. And that's how we found some of those clubs, too.

[00:14:33] But was it similar to how you see with a lot of today's pubs where they allowed the guy at the soundboard allows you to keep a raw copy after each performance or the death? Sometimes that would happen. Yeah. As a matter of fact, there was just an article that came out in the last month. I forgive me. I can't remember who did it, if it was NPR or New York Times or something.

[00:14:56] But there was an archivist in Chicago and this guy, he's been recording live concerts and DIY for decades. And he has tens of thousands of recordings. And it was all over the news. And he archived it all. You can go to his website and find it. But the really neat thing is, when we played in Chicago in 1996, that same guy, at the end of the show, handed me a cassette.

[00:15:24] And I still have the cassette that he recorded of us live. And when we did a reissue of our first album a few years ago, we included some of his recordings as bonus tracks. So to come full circle, to answer your question, it didn't happen a lot that we would get recordings and stuff. But occasionally it did. And then you had a scenario like that, which just ended up being really special. Some random, hey, check it out, man. I recorded your band. Here you go. Here's a tape. Great. Thanks.

[00:15:54] And then 25, 30 years later, we're using that. And now he's in the national news for his archives. You know, it's pretty cool. That is sweet. And that's almost like he was an MTV News reject. And now that MTV News is no more, but he's still around. That says a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Definitely. He would definitely be classified as an archivist. It is wild, though, too. Like when you look at just so many people taking all these extra photos and videos and they post it on their website. I was like, ah, I wish someone could put that up there.

[00:16:23] It can't all be just Wikipedia or the Library of Congress. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a wonderful question from the show and just an all great podcaster and music enthusiast. Brian Colburn from My Weekly Mixtape. He got into the action and he asked the question that many had already asked.

[00:16:44] And to paraphrase, he was like, during the 19-year gap between you guys breaking up and reforming, what were the contributing factors to them bringing it all the way back to 2016? Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we all continued to play music independently. So we weren't just like – we didn't just give up. You know what I mean? We continued to be in bands. I've always been part of the scene. We were just in different bands.

[00:17:12] Suzy, my wife and the current singer of Pogo, and Brian, our bass player, for about a decade, we had another band called Rec Center with a friend of ours, Mike, and our friend Melissa on cello. And we always kind of described it as a mellow Pogo. Like it was – you know, Suzy played the Warlitzer piano and there was cello. But they were Suzy songs, you know, and Mike's songs as well. We would co-ed vocals.

[00:17:35] So we did that for about a decade, but about every five years during those 17, 19 years, we would always – Pogo would always do some sort of anniversary show or something or a fundraiser. You know, say there was this or that. Well, let's get together, you know. And I always put on a show every Christmas night the last 35 years, save three or four years. I didn't do it this past year. And it's always a great turnout. And so Pogo would get together.

[00:18:05] So anyway, in 2014, we got together for the 20th anniversary of the label that we run, New Granada Records. And we actually did a show where all five of us performed. Obey, our original singer, and Suzy performed. And it was great. And we just had such a great time that we were like, why are we not doing this?

[00:18:31] You know, like, why are we not – and so we invited Kobe to be a part of it. And she lives – she's an attorney and has a very busy life and lives on the other side of the state of Florida. And she was like, you guys, I had a blast at this reunion. You have my blessing. Keep going. And that's really how we got back together. Again, there was no plan. There was no like, oh, nobody likes our current band. Let's get the old band back together that people like. Yeah. That's the Hollywood dramatization. Yeah, that's the Hollywood version.

[00:18:59] No, it literally – we just had such a great time at this last particular reunion. And we had had other reunions, but this one just – it just kind of lit a fire under our ass. You know what I mean? And we were just like, man, that was awesome. And we just started writing. And within two or three years, we had a full album. Yeah, it was great. So – and here we are 10 years later still doing it. So, man, and again, like you say, you can't make this up. It just – it happened.

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[00:21:58] or check us out at whowouldwinshow.com. Now, Brad, our original bass player, he was on board for about eight months, a year, played a couple shows with us, and then life took over, and he was like, guys, I've got to focus on these things. So we brought in our friend Brian. As a matter of fact, it was Brad that suggested our friend Brian, and it wasn't even the suggestion. I remember Brad telling us he wasn't able to play with us anymore, and he said, let's get Brian to play.

[00:22:29] So we called our friend Brian, and Brian's like, yeah, of course I'll be in the band. That's sweet. That worked out really well. So you beat me to the punch on that. It was like, did you have, was it always easy to kind of blend day job with your obsession that was doing this group, or was it a little bit? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, because even back in the day, in the 90s, we all had jobs. I mean, of course. Had to. Retail or work, you know, whatever.

[00:22:59] But no, I mean, it's just, you know, we just work normal jobs, and most of us still do, and we just try to make time. You know, of course, it's a little different now. You know, when we have a show offer or something, we have to kind of have a little group text meeting, and, hey, you know, this is the date, you know, what's it looking like? Is anybody going on a family vacation? Or, you know what I mean? Can you find a babysitter that night, you know, or whatever?

[00:23:26] So it's a little different now as far as finding time for the band. But no, we all make it work. It's great. Sweet, sweet. And so you were working retail and. Yeah, all kinds of stuff. Was there any of it kind of influenced what you do now, where you're just like, this is what I do for organization, planning? No, I mean, I did like a lot of people, you know, in the late 90s to the early.

[00:23:55] You know, I worked in normal, what I would call a normal job. You know, I worked in an office. Did that for a decade or so. But for the last 15 years, I've been my own boss. I own and work at a, I own my own record store. And given how you two are married, how many I'm married to my job jokes do you guys get? So, yeah, well, it's what's cool is this is what I like to tell people that's neat is I run a small record label. My job is owning a record store.

[00:24:26] And then my extracurricular is being in a band and writing and creating music. So my entire life is encompassed by music. Every aspect of it. Right. I'm not complaining. What recommendations do you have for those who struggle with a balance if the pendulum keeps swinging? That's a very, very good question that I have never been asked in my life. I'm going to have to pause for a minute. Everyone has a little small strategy.

[00:24:56] You know, honestly. I don't know. I don't know if I have an answer for that. You just have to find that. That. Balance that time you have to you just have to know, you know, I you get off work, you're exhausted, no matter what kind of work you do. You know, you come home. You're like, oh, man. And there's even nights now, honestly, where we practice on, you know, evening, seven, eight o'clock. And there's even times where, you know, we go, oh, I'm so beat. I don't, you know.

[00:25:24] But you just got to remind yourself why you do it. And then, you know what? We're going to have fun. We're going to see our friends. And we've had practices, too, where we literally get together, play 15 minutes of music and then spend an hour just hanging out talking. You know, so I really I don't know if I really have an answer for your question. That's probably one of the most real questions I have ever been asked in my life. I just have nothing but respect. I have.

[00:25:50] In fact, one of my to do list is to do at least 10 other music videos before I hang up any directing for my indie music friends in my area. But I love how. Just when going into the nuts and bolts of anything like the fun happens. Yeah. But that's that. But hence with music, you know, that doesn't always happen. It's like this will be fun when we actually record something in the can. Right. Yeah. And build on it. And it depends.

[00:26:19] I mean, I like the creative side of it. I like writing. I like practicing. You know what I mean? But you're right. You got to word out all the other guys who play a show or you sell something off the merch table or record an album. Yeah, there's definitely rewards and different levels to it. But I like just getting together and playing, you know, and writing and being creative and or attempting to be creative. Sometimes, you know, you show up and you practice and you play a few of the old songs and you go, all right.

[00:26:48] Anybody got anything new to present? And sometimes there's not, you know, you still get to play that outlet. Do those pubs kind of treat it almost like an open mic poetry or comedy night or? What's that? What do you mean? Like in terms of just how you can present music or do you often just play stuff that's already like ready to go? Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no. We wouldn't play. We probably wouldn't even play places like that.

[00:27:14] You know, like the shows that we play are pre-organized and put together by somebody, either ourselves or a promoter. Or two or three bands, you know, at a specific venue. But no, as far as that type of outlet. And there's nothing against that type of outlet. That's just not really our scene or our vibe is where we perform or anything like that. Everything's different. You know what I mean? Have you been tempted to do it? Maybe, let me interrupt. Maybe if we were younger, like if we were young and we were workshopping some songs, you know, we could say, let's go try to do that.

[00:27:44] But at this stage in our, you know, playing and decades later, we know how to operate and operate what our intentions are as far as where and when we're going to perform. That's cool. Yeah. Is there any song you're tempted to do a cover of?

[00:28:06] Well, we, it's funny you say that because in all the years we've been together, we've never really been prone to covers. We've talked about them from day one. Like, oh, this is a cool song. We should do this. And there's been times where one, it's creeping, but it's never really been a thing of ours. You know, I mentioned Super Chunk earlier. And maybe a year ago, for fun, we learned an older song of theirs called Precision Auto.

[00:28:36] And we played that two or three times last year. It was fun. And the reaction to, oh, wow, cool. But it's, that's a very rare example of us throwing a cover into our set. That's just not really something that we've ever, A, we can never agree on a cover. And, B, we're collectively probably not very good at learning other people's material. So when you add those two things together, you kind of just go, eh. You know what I mean?

[00:29:03] You can talk about it, but actually execute it as a whole of a conversation. Well, but at least there's a real answer, you know? Yeah, for real, yeah. But, no, we have done covers before, but it's very few and far between. Well, so that's neat. This is like, you don't feel the need to tread old water. It's like, yeah. No, no, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:29:29] So, looking at the fanfare you had then versus now, and you mentioned in other interviews how people in Brazil and Japan, to name a few, were covering your music. That reminds me of a folk music group pal of mine who, they had their songs bootlegged by a random college station. So, how do you think a lot of this stuff kind of, does it, even though you start off as college rock, do you think it kind of just stays literally with the college scene?

[00:29:59] People just pass that off at college radio? I don't know, because I'm not too familiar with the college radio scene currently, and how it has been in the last 20 years, or 30 years even. I don't know. But I definitely know for a fact that our music continues to be discovered by young people. So, how those young people are hearing it, Spotify, I don't know. Word of mouth, I don't know.

[00:30:28] So, and maybe we are still being played somewhere, you know what I mean? And some young person hears it in their dorm or something like that. But I don't know, to be honest with you. So, I don't know if I can really answer that question about college radio or its impact, you know what I mean? But we do know for a fact, so I mentioned before that we had gone to Japan, and we've been twice since getting back together.

[00:30:51] And in 2024, we went, and that time was very noticeable that a lot of the audiences were younger people that had just discovered us from our latest album. Oh, man. I don't know, you know. I mean, we have fans over there, and we were playing for fans, and we were playing a lot of the old stuff, and we were playing a lot of the new stuff.

[00:31:15] But this last time, it was very noticeable, a younger crowd who were wanting to hear the new songs, which was exciting for us, you know, because you want to play those new songs and be appreciated just as much as people love the old songs. Right. But I don't have an answer as to how that happened. It was very strange. We discussed it privately, like in the van or the hotel, like, wow, you can do this? You know? No, I don't know. I don't have an answer. I don't know why. All right. And that's okay to not know all the answers. Yeah, that's true.

[00:31:45] It's kind of like, it's kind of neat to just be this anomaly, you know, that's just like, whoa, you know, it doesn't have to have this, you know, we don't need a clinical answer. It's just more of kind of a rhetorical, like, whoa, you know, how did that happen? You know? I don't know. Very cool, though. And at least it wasn't, is there ever a day where it doesn't really feel like work? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like where you are. You enjoy it. Yes.

[00:32:12] Yeah, I mean, you know, as you get older, it's harder because, you know, you're dealing with physical, you know, you're not as, you know, I can't go as far as I used to and, you know, play as hard as I used to. You know your limitations. You know what you can do. Right. But no, no, no. There's plenty of times, especially playing live. That's one thing that to me has not changed from 30-something years ago.

[00:32:36] So I still feel, even though I may not be playing the same way internally, I feel the same way I felt, you know, as a young guy playing live music. You know, I still feel that connection and that energy and wanting to connect. And that to me is very rewarding. It doesn't matter how tired I am, how exhausted we are on tour.

[00:33:03] Once we're playing, that's one thing for sure that has been very linear this whole time for me. That's neat. Not everyone can say that, you know. No, no, no. True. True. Is there ever a moment where you do kind of have to say, man, I haven't had a chance to catch my breath, but you have a lot of energy? Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:33:29] Especially on tour, you know, as we get older, like, you know, we do shorter tours now, but they're quick. So like, you know, oh, we're going to be gone five days, but you're playing five days in a row. You know, whereas 30 years ago, big deal. Let's go do it. But now it's like you feel it. You know what I mean? You're like, oh, I should have booked a day off in the middle where we can just. And that's mainly just due to age and also Susie's situation. I know we haven't really discussed it.

[00:33:56] Susie has multiple sclerosis and was diagnosed 25 plus years ago now. And so she doesn't walk. She still plays the guitar and sings and everything's great, but she does not have the ability to walk. So she gets around in a scooter. And when we're on stages, we have to carry her onto the stage and put her in a chair. And so for her, it's very, very taxing physically as far as energy and being tired and stuff like that. But she's a go getter. She still she still loves to play.

[00:34:26] And, you know, and she'll let us know when she's whipped, you know, like, hey, I don't don't book that show. I need time off or what I mean. Like, she's very vocal about that. And we respect it. That's cool. Yeah. And again, no pressure, you know? Yeah, exactly. So also a big question to ask.

[00:34:47] So when when the time comes for scheduling and everything, you know, obviously everyone does more than just their musician playing. Sure. Effect. What is it like just kind of assigning everyone kind of a little bit like, hey, you deal with the booking over the phone. I'll deal with making sure we got other. Well, no, I handle all of that.

[00:35:17] OK, sweet. I do all of it. I do the booking. I am a promotion when we tour. I'm the tour manager. You know, at the end of the night when the promoter needs to settle with somebody with money and I do that. I handle the merch. It's just I'm I'm I will self-describe control freak. I will admit that. But I've just been doing it for so long. I've just always been the guy. You know what I mean?

[00:35:46] So whenever we get tour offers or show offers, it always comes to me and then I have to ask the band or that kind of thing. So, yeah. And even as we've gotten older, you know, we've had conversations about maybe spreading some of the responsibility. And I'm like, hey, until I can't do those things. Yeah. I'll continue to do all of them. I'm good to go, guys. Yeah, exactly. All right. Good deal.

[00:36:11] Well, see, this is kind of cool because it's like you're not even sweating the small stuff. You're just. Yeah. I I'll give it the effort it deserves, the work it deserves. I got this. Yeah, sure. One hundred percent. One hundred percent. And so. What are the recording sessions often like in general? Just like. Well, I'll tell you this.

[00:36:40] I like recording. But it can be taxing, you know, because you want to play as perfect as you can. And there's a lot of pressure to perform. I will say this. I'll talk about this element of it. So when we recorded our original singles and our first album back in the 90s, you know, we did like every band as you record locally and, you know, it out and people would buy it and sell it on tour.

[00:37:07] But when we got back together 10 years ago and started writing new songs and we knew we knew we were coming up on an album's worth of songs. We kind of had a conversation of like, hey, look, you know, we're older or more settled. You know, we there's our finances are different. Let's do some things that we weren't able to do back in the day, either because of opportunity, finance, whatever. So one of them was to have a true recording experience.

[00:37:35] And what I mean by that is typically when you record locally, you know, you go to a local studio and, oh, OK, I'll throw in a few hours on a Tuesday night. I'll throw in a few hours on a Saturday. We wanted to go somewhere where we could park it for a week or two, you know, or 10 days and come out with a finished album. And so we started thinking about it.

[00:37:57] And, you know, we we were always big Jawbox fans and we knew Jay's work from previous albums and bands that he had worked with. And so we called him up and he was come on up, man, let's record. And so that was extremely exciting. And to answer your question was like recording like that was such a new, fresh and different way to record that none of us had ever experienced.

[00:38:24] So the whole the whole thing from from destination, like being a destination and just parking it in the studio for a week and just being there every day from, you know, noon to midnight. Just in it, you know, your mind is in it and you're it just was such a wonderful way to record and to record with Jay. And so I know that it's kind of an offshoot of your question, but it's it is about recording, you know, what it's like in both albums.

[00:38:52] Both experiences were very wonderful and we're very lucky to have to have had that experience. Instead of just constant back and forth, we're not sure. Back and forth and piecing it together beats me all. And you know what I mean? I mean, there's still, you know, when I say a finished album, you still have to have it mixed and all mastered and all that. But I mean, as far as recording, like anything that's going to go on this album is going to happen within these seven days. You know what I mean? And it was really wonderful.

[00:39:18] And it really kind of lit a fire under our butts, too, as far as when we got back together about kind of what we were capable of doing as older. You know, musicians kind of getting back into our old band and connecting with old people from the scene and stuff. It kind of lit a fire. It's like, oh, you know, we're we're capable of doing more than what we were doing originally, you know, so. But at least you can learn new tricks. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. New experiences. I mean, it was great.

[00:39:48] It was. Yeah. I would say to any young band or any band, for that matter, if you have the opportunity to lock down a studio and just focus on your recording, you're going to have such an amazing time because you're solely focused on that and nothing else. There's no, well, I got to be out of here at 11 because I got to get home and I got to work tomorrow and I got you know what I mean? So if anybody has the capability, the opportunity to record that way, I would 100 percent suggest it. That's nice.

[00:40:18] Right. And well, given how musicians love nothing more than seeing other musicians talk and everything, whenever you watched any of those famous music documentaries, were there ever moments where you're like, oh, now we're living what those guys are living like some good ones? There's some loud. There's yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, a fan of music documentaries. Always think of this now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:40:43] And so I think going kind of going back to what I was saying, like that first true studio experience, it you know what I mean? There was an element even as a fully grown adult of like, oh, you know, you kind of take it back and go, whoa, this is this is really awesome. You know, that we've able to experience is this way. But, you know, to kind of see how how other musicians at different levels, whatever, have been able to record and and experience their studio time.

[00:41:11] You know, yeah, for sure. One hundred percent. It's perfect. So if you had to do anything differently, like not go on hiatus or anything, what would it have been like, do you think, if you had to play it out differently? I don't know. And Susie and I have talked about this at great length because I mentioned previously that, you know, she was diagnosed with MS and she started showing symptoms in about.

[00:41:38] 2000 when we got married and the band broke up in late 97. So even if we had stayed together just a couple of years later, she would have started showing symptoms. You know what I mean? So I don't know if we would have been able to keep going full force at that time because, you know, being diagnosed with something like that, it's life changing and you have to take a step back, you know. So so I don't know.

[00:42:06] I'm not going to put that solely on her situation. But that's one thing for sure that I could say would have definitely happened, whether we had stayed together or not. And so it would have it would have had a heavy hand in deciding how we were going to be as a band or not, because with MS, you have different symptoms and things change. So at the time, her hand wasn't working very well. She wouldn't have been able to play the guitar. So now she can, you know, her ability has come back for the most part.

[00:42:37] Oh, that would have had a major play as to our destiny, if you could say, or our story arc, you know. But I think until that happened, I think we would have just kept marching on. And, you know, we were about to sign a three album deal with a small DIY label before we broke up. Mm hmm. So who knows what would have happened there? You know what I mean? That would have played into it as well.

[00:43:03] Definitely never get attached to a contract because like there's all kinds of, like you say, it was like maybe that would have turned out gray. Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe exactly. You would have had a refusible amount of money mixed with demands you don't want to meet. That's right. That's right. There's always a catch 22 and you're just like. Yeah, you've you. You completely just you completely just said everything that I would say. And but yeah, I mean, you're still going.

[00:43:33] You're still going scheduling. You you decide when to clock in. That's that's great. And that's the best part. I mean, you know, we've had with our first album back, Secret Club. We self-released that on our own label, New Granada. But luckily, AAA covers other adult. Whoa. Listen to that. The the next album came out on a label out of Seattle, Spartan. So, I mean, we're still open to working with people just kind of on very small DIY terms.

[00:44:03] You know what I mean? And you're featured on all music that you exist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. That's cool. And I do get a kick out of little things like that. You know, I'm not going to lie. You know what I mean? When I see little things or, oh, the band's mentioned here. Oh, that's cool. You know, it's like it's it's rewarding. You know, it is. It really is. When you were hosting some of the annual Christmas night shows in Tampa. What were the crowds like in general? Like, were they all out caroling kind of or? Well, yeah.

[00:44:32] So we started it because in the early 90s, a band I was in, we played on Christmas night. And we were like, whoa, Christmas night. Who's going to come to this thing? And it was wild to me how many people showed up. Young, young people just looking to get out of the house. You're done with your family. You know, you want to get out. And so the very next year was when I kind of took it on as a thing.

[00:44:57] And I would say for a solid 20 years, it was a really good turnout from a local perspective. A couple hundred people, 300 people. You know, that's a good that's a good show. So as it's like, for instance, the reason why I didn't do it this past year is it was really hard to find available bands to play.

[00:45:23] And so over the last few years, it's kind of definitely started to kind of slow down a little bit as far as turnout. So I don't know if it'll continue. But when it's when it was kicking for a couple of decades. Oh, I highly looked forward. Like, you know, I would be at Christmas with my family and be looking at my watch going, oh, I can't wait for tonight. You know what I mean? Were you ever tempted to play New Year's even? No. I mean, sure.

[00:45:53] I'm sure at some point, you know, it was talked about. But New Year's to me is kind of has always been a holiday where you stay in. You know what I mean? You're just kind of relaxing. Watch the ball drop. Plus, you know, it's a little bit of amateur hour as far as people being irresponsible. And you know what I mean? I don't want to be out in that. But Christmas was always a good vibe. Christmas night. Never any trouble. Never any shenanigans.

[00:46:23] People always in a good mood. Plus, people you would see people in town visiting families that we hadn't seen in a long time. So it almost kind of became like a punk rock like scene reunion. You know what I mean? Like an annual reunion or something like that. It's really cool. That's neat. Really, really cool. So. How did it feel when just like seeing all this other just all these other fans emerge

[00:46:48] under the grain in the form of just like corporate media, like New Noise magazine did a piece on you guys? Yeah. Yeah. But how did it kind of feel just being validated finally by some of these other guys who live and breathe music and review albums daily? You know, we typically I we wouldn't even really speak of that publicly. But you use the word valid, validated. No, no, no. You use the word validated. And I'm going to be open and honest here.

[00:47:17] Susie and I in particular, because we're married and we live together, we've used that word quite a bit over the last 10 years, you know? And it's not that we were looking for validation. Nobody's I hope nobody's really looking for.

[00:47:30] But when when when when a classic magazine or a new up and coming hip magazine or indie magazine or a blog or a Instagram post and somebody shares something, you know, about, you know, your your second wave of existence as a band. It's very validating.

[00:47:54] You know, when we got asked in 2018 to go on tour with Jawbreaker for their first tour in 25 years, that's very validating. That is extremely validating. So, no, I'm glad you use that word, because that is a word that in the old rehouse has has been mentioned many times over the last 10 years. Well, and. I mean, that's kind of why we even started this podcast.

[00:48:21] It's not fair, does we wanted to just kind of give a voice to stuff that is a thing, but isn't often mentioned much. So, yeah, when I first started, I had to tell others is like, yeah, anyone could do something on these guys or that guys. I want to kind of talk about the underground scene and very cool. What were the advantages and disadvantages of utilizing band camp? Band camp. So I have a love hate relationship with band camp.

[00:48:48] It's stuff like that with Spotify, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And band camp is awesome on the surface because it's it's all about the artist. It's all about the label. It's all about, you know, and now they do these and camp Fridays where, you know, if you buy something, it goes directly to the artist and band camp doesn't take anything. That's awesome. I just we've used band camp from day one. I've used it from day one with new Granada, the label. Excuse me.

[00:49:17] I've never just personally been able to find the secret sauce. You know, we can sell as far as the merchandise side, like the selling a CD or an album or a shirt. We've done very well with the label in Pogo. But as far as it being an alternative to mainstream streaming, we've just never I don't know what it is.

[00:49:45] I've never been able to find that secret sauce, you know, and I don't mean like, oh, we're only looking at it to make money. I'm just saying for me personally, like I could probably remove all of our music off of band camp and it won't even be noticed or make it. You know what I mean? Right. I just I don't know. I don't know if it's our demographic or what. I don't know. We'll still continue to use it. I still love it. It's great. It's a great resource.

[00:50:10] I'll still continue to put all of our music there for for the people that do use band camp and and support that way or listen that way. But just for me personally, band camp, if you had to put a scale on it, negative, positive, it would be in the it would be in the 40 percent. You know, satisfaction. Yeah, I mean, it is an awesome. It is an awesome platform. It is. Don't get me wrong.

[00:50:39] No, that's cool. Because maybe it's something I'm doing wrong. Maybe I need a tutorial. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, half the time these these tutorials would be outdated even by the time it gets to that. So that's true. Yeah, that's true. I mean, that is true. If anything, I would just ask is like, I mean, you already know why you want to keep going and you already know the emotional and. And just reward of doing your own thing on your own time. So.

[00:51:10] Is there anything else you want to kind of you kind of proven what you want to do and how you can do it? It sounds. So is there anything else on your bucket list? You're just like, I got to I got to cross that off. I got to get that done. No, I don't know if there's anything else in particular, because, like I said, we've we've done things that we never thought we would ever do in our life. You know, like I said, we do headlining tours of Japan.

[00:51:35] We've toured with Jawbreaker and and, you know, opened for countless bands that we've been asked to play with. And like, what are you serious? You know, recorded two albums with Jay. You know, what a dream. I don't know. I think. Honestly, it sounds kind of lame, but I think the bucket list is just keep going. That's the bucket list. You know what I mean? Because technically a bucket list is to do something until you pick the bucket. Right.

[00:52:05] That's where the term bucket list comes from. So honestly, I think our bucket list is to just keep going until we can't. You know what I mean? So. Not an exciting answer, but a real one, you know, you know, it's real. All about being talking real stuff. But yeah, for sure. For sure. And that's cool that you could at least kind of pinpoint that, you know. Yeah, for sure.

[00:52:34] And I mean, it's. We'll continue making music and being creative and writing with each other as long as we can. I love it. Hey, never stopping. Never say die. That's right. All right. Well, it's been a delight, man, because like. It's just like to get to that point where it's just like I know what I want, how and where and.

[00:53:04] And and asking that you. You know, you took the time, you outlined it and then. It's like there's never not anything not on the horizon. Yeah, right. Yeah, sure. I guess you'll always be looking up at the sky saying I got a dream that I'm just going to now make become reality next after this. Yeah, for sure. 100%. Yeah.

[00:53:33] Man, dude, I wish nothing but the best. I'll definitely try to see some of you guys at concert next time I'm in Tampa. Where exactly are you at? I'm in Dallas. In Dallas. But I'm always trying to plan out different trips. I got you. Summertime. For sure. Yeah. You know, it's funny is in our 30 plus years of existence, we never played Texas. We've never been there. We've always talked about it. So friendly pubs. Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, I really appreciate you contacting me.

[00:54:02] And this is fun. You asked some great questions. I got to tell you, man, you had some it's some pretty, pretty hard hitting questions that were very interesting. As long as it wasn't boring. But I pride myself on being able to answer. You know what I mean? So. That was cool that it was at least invigorating and you got to kind of just. Go wherever you wanted in the conversation to, you know, I don't I never I don't try to hold anyone hostage.

[00:54:28] I never was like, oh, anyone could ask this is like, well, yes, no, it was great. Super casual, but great. Very pointed questions. It was great, man. I appreciate the time. I had a poignant guest. Glad you can make it for hit me up, man. Thanks for hitting me up. Absolutely. And all right, man. Have the damnedest of fun just at the next. Concert. But also, I hope someone even asked you for an autograph.

[00:54:58] I appreciate that, man. They're out there. There's someone who was there from the beginning. That's right. Out of that. That that one street. You're like, hey. I'm not saying stocky. Don't I'm not saying that, guys, but just. Yeah. Give some fan mail. For sure. For sure. Thought and do it. Maybe send it in the letter. That's another rated skill to have. That is. Yeah. Because no one does letters anymore. It's like. I still have.

[00:55:23] I still have a Rubbermaid tub from the 90s with all of the letters that we received back in the day at our old PO box. I still have them all. Oh, man. Never get rid of it. Yeah. You're going to have to show that at the next live show you do. Yeah. I thought about like scanning them and like taking or at least taking a photo or so. I don't know. Maybe one day. Maybe one day. All right. Let's make it today. I have to dig it out.

[00:55:52] It's buried right now. I love it. Yeah. Awesome. At least you don't have to go and crawl for storage. No, I do not. I do not. I know where it is, but it is buried a little bit. It's there, but it is. It takes some effort. Maybe one day. Yeah, exactly, man. Well, thanks again for having me, man. This is a great time. This is a joy. It really is. Just talking about a cult underground scene. Awesome, man. Appreciate your time, man. Thanks for having me. You got it.

[00:56:27] Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple, and anywhere else. Podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening. It's a jacked up review show.