Ranking the Villains on The Sopranos

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information. I saw this. This is true. I don't remember what year it was, but we actually looked it up on the internet. In the 90s, James Gandolfini was on Sesame Street. Yes. Is that really the guy you want teaching your kids? Because the only thing I can see is Tony Soprano teaching about letters.

[00:00:27] Hey kids, today we're going to talk about the letter F. And every once in a while you hear they're going to take Sesame Street off the air. That would be terrible. I grew up on Sesame Street. Think of all those unemployed Muppets.

[00:00:47] What if you can't hire a Muppet? Muppet's probably going to turn to a life of crime. Got to feed your Muppet family. Any one of us could be walking down the street, some Muppet comes up to you. Psst. Want to buy an E? An E? Shhh. Right, right. Get caught in possession of an illegal vowel with intent to spell? I would not be good.

[00:01:15] This thing is a pyramid. Since time immemorial, I should not have to be coming here. Reminding you about your duty. You're supposed to be honest. That's why you got the top tier positions. It's the money. Is it a hanging offense? Or not? Send someone over there tomorrow to take care of it. Tony says no. I got your back. You don't care about our future, Tony. I would follow that man into hell. Into hell.

[00:01:45] Somebody in my family's talking out of school again. I hate him to cry. I'm on trial for my life here. You trust only blood. You work for me! Stop talking about my honor. You let me sit there! You're scaring me. This is the life, huh? I'm like that. Remixed. Remixed. Remixed. Remixed.

[00:02:16] Sometimes we get so deep into conversation, that we have separate segments worthy of their own place in the sun. The reshuffled mini episode.

[00:02:45] There are so many villains, but it's so funny because Tony, we kind of like him because he's never, he's rarely the instigator. He's often just, I'm going to retaliate because you hit my crew. But I mean, this is the same guy who, you know, he got the upper hand in a failed robbery of his car. You know, he kills both the guys, but then he crashes and ends up in the hospital. So, and it's just so funny how he knows he can let his guard down and that he's got to lose weight. He's got to keep his smarts about him. Bada bing,

[00:03:15] bada boom. Yeah. Gabagool. I go as a Gabagool. The thing I've always said about that is, is like, there are monsters on that show. The first one I think is Livia. Oh yeah. Yeah. Livia is. Much like Josh was saying, or Hans was saying about, uh, freaking, uh, big pussy. Yeah. I did not like Livia. I didn't think she was that great an actor, but. Oh, I think she's incredible. I'll see. I think what you're feeling is you hate her so much. No,

[00:03:45] I'll see. That's because she's so good. I just didn't think there was much to the character, but I get that he needs to have someone. Just let me go here. I'm just, I know. I know. I'm sorry. I'm just saying, I'm just, I'm just saying like, I get that you're supposed to hate her. I get that. I'm just feel like she's kind of. So easily persuaded by uncle junior. And, but I get that has to happen because they wanted someone personal. She hates her son. That's the whole thing. Right. It's like, it's like he's a disappointment to her. Meanwhile, he's taking care of her.

[00:04:15] Where's Janice? She's too busy partying. Barbara's got to leave her alone. You guys think about it. She hates him. So. Well, I get why she does. Cause he's there. So if I, if I had to edit it differently, I would have had, uh, the episode where Tony flashes back to his mobster dad, beating up a clerk. I would have had that episode be one of the first episodes before she was introduced. So that way we could have had more of that closure. And the thing that says, you got Nancy Marchand who,

[00:04:45] who, who done Lou Grant for so many years. And she was still working. She gets this role. She's the mother. You fucking hate. She's, she's the nightmare mom. She's the mom. You just want to be like, there's no doubt. You fucking die already. You know, and when she, when they, when she did die in real life, man, that's CGI for her. Oh, that face replacement is one of the most cursed images I've ever seen. It's very creepy. I will give you that. It's so bad.

[00:05:14] They did what they had to do. Like I can do a little better face replacement on my phone. Oh dear. Unreal how bad it is. In plan nine with, uh, Bela Lugosi's replacement. You know, the guy a foot taller with a cape over his head, you know? Oh, and yeah, but, but it is kind of a, a shame that, um, uh, some of these actors kind of like the guys on Oz, some of them kind of felt like they needed therapy.

[00:05:41] They were so method at playing these different characters. I mean, fuck Tony Sirico was an absolute actual mobster. Yeah. And he's joking around, but everyone's like, he had like a thing where he could never be a rat because of that. Yeah. In the show. Right. Yeah. I can't play a rat because then my, my mobster buddies are going to think that's true. But when, so when they, you got to wonder about his acting then when, uh, when bit pussy got killed, when they killed him off, you know?

[00:06:11] And yeah, I mean, he was the most cold out of all of them. Like I said, he was taking like his jewelry off. He just had that. I don't give a fuck. Like whatever. Yeah. In a way I kind of see the jewelry getting taken off as him saying he's not embracing him from, you know, the crew racing him from part of that. I see him as he's a pragmatist. He's like, why are we going to throw away this money? I can take this money. Well, that's how I'm wired. I'm going to get my money any way I can. This guy's dead. We're going to throw him in the ocean.

[00:06:42] All right. I'm just take his watch. And that's kind of what it is. Yeah. Why? Like, why would we throw that away? It's being realistic instead of just let's dispose of it all. But yeah. Um, well, and just, you knew he was going downhill. He can't be honest about the wire tapping with the agent. He's trying to help them. And then he gets in a car wreck and just runs away. So he definitely was going downhill. He just, he was muscled, but he wasn't built for have an exit plan. That's all he knows.

[00:07:12] And I, my, my personal favorite. I mean, there's some serious competition. There's plenty of villains. We've already mentioned Philly at Tart on the other chat, but my absolute favorite, because he's not only a psychopath, but he takes every kill seriously. It's got to be the first big, big bad. And that is Mikey Palmice. Oh, I love Mikey. I'm such a sociopath psycho. I light up every time I see Al Sapien's in anything, you know, he's, he's done it all. He's been a lawyer.

[00:07:41] He's been a mayor. He's been on everything from brotherhood to all those other crime shows, person of interest. He's one of the crooked cops. And, but I'm just like, Mikey, you know, whenever I see him in some Washington drama, I'm like, yeah, he's always going to be Mikey. Cause like, he, he just gets so much satisfaction from killing people. And then he shrugs it off. And it's so funny. Like Tony already knows something's off about him. At first he thinks, I just don't like it. And it's like, Oh, I love when he, he hits him with the stapler. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:11] And then he wipes the prints off and drops it. Like it's a gun. Yeah. That's fucking insane. But yeah, he comes up to him at his car. Right. Is that the scene you're thinking of? Yeah. Yeah. And he does. And he totally sneaks on. I'm like, he's like, who's this fucking guy? he hates him. He knows he's, he's a psycho. Like, yeah. And it's so funny. He has his own agenda. He he's always like typical sh shitheads, you know, just acting like it's for something else. It's like, no, this is not for uncle junior's cause you're doing this.

[00:08:40] Cause you just want to kill him. It's not. And uncle junior is awesome too. Cause like he keeps going back and forth from, Hey, yeah, Tony, I know your dad. I'll help you out. And then Tony's like, no motherfucker. You're going to play by my rules. And then, yeah. But by the time he's in the psych ward is like, anything goes, but uncle junior was always jealous of, of Tony Soprano and, and his brother, another success, another, he totally is a jealous asshole.

[00:09:10] And another great, uh, Godfather, uh, Sunila may, uh, veteran and man, did he sink his head toe, like face first into that role. Like, Hey, Tony, no, no, Tony, this is how you play pokers. Ah, it's my, did anybody have an opinion of Bobby back. Leary. I love them. I love them. Steve Sherpa. He was like the nice guy working for, you know, he'd be the secondary. Yeah. Most normal guy.

[00:09:41] The part I love. We got to do something about this. Tony, we can't do this. Your sister's going to be pissed at me. The thing I love about this spoils. The thing I love is when he's sitting in the diner, when he's sitting in the diner, he's, he's, he's, he's, this is like when Notre, Notre Dame, Quasimodo said, Quasimodo said, it's like a Quasimodo said, the fuck are you talking about? And I, predicted the future. That's Nostradamus. Dude, that's Nostradamus. And that's the other thing too.

[00:10:11] They, they get in the most wacky arguments saying you're quoting the wrong philosophical. I love their like attempts, attempts to be like intelligent and highbrow, but they just mess it all up. And so that's as terrible. That's as Tarantino as they get, except beautiful. It's just showing is like, yeah, just cause I have a bad way of making ends meet. Doesn't mean I'm not having everyday random ass conversations that are inconsequential. And so I'm in the minority.

[00:10:39] I do not find either Carmelo or Janice annoying. I think they're no more loud mouth than Tony and his friends, but Janice. No, I'm going to say this. Janice, Janice. I couldn't fucking stand until she killed Richie April. Yeah. That was great. April, Richie April got every fucking thing he deserved that, that night when she shot. That was it. Okay. That was the man's own lamps. Yeah. from, from mean streets and everything. And it is one of those. That actor was incredible.

[00:11:10] But my, my only, my only issue with season two is it, you know, season one raised the stakes so high. They're like, we're going to struggle to find as big, a big bad for the whole season as, you know, Mikey. And it's like, I think Richie slowly, but yeah, Richie April is the son who wanted, who was going to get the job and he got passed over for, you know, for Tony. That's what it was. But yeah, but yeah, I kind of respected Janice for that. Yeah. She,

[00:11:39] she hooked up with Bobby. And when Janice, when Janice fucking takes the gun and shoots him twice. And he's like, he's like, you fucking, like, he gives a look at like, you shot me. And she shoots him again. And she, she calls Tony up. And Tony's like, dispose of him. He broke his own rule. He told Christopher, you cannot hit Adriana until you put her last name. As I remember people. And then I can do whatever you want. Wow. Yeah. He did that to Janice. That's a good point.

[00:12:09] He wasn't married. You broke his own rule. And he got it. Yeah. Janice, Janice had enough of his bullshit. Cause Janice. Where did she get the gun? Did Tony give her the gun? Or did she always have that? Uh, I think. Or was it, or was it Richie's gun? That would have been, I don't know where that came from. I like to think it's Richie's gun because then that would be even more ironic, man. I assume as much. Well, and it was all over the house. Well, and especially in this show, but I mean, it blew my mind when I'm like, yeah, but she's,

[00:12:38] she's one of the older sisters of the Totoro brothers, Nick and, John, that's awesome. There's a great, there's a great side note about that episode. You know, HBO would put the synopsis of the episode. Oh, great. You know what it said for that episode? Janice and Richie have their first argument. Isn't that classic? That's perfect. That's so good. Even the synopsis of it from HBO. That's what I love. That's so understated. That's why I like,

[00:13:06] what does Tony say to Carmela? Whoever wrote that is. Carmela has to take care of him. She's like, what? We had to take care of him. Yeah. And that's what she knows. She's like, she's like, oh shit, really? Yeah. And it's so funny. I mean, this is the same gal who shares some great wisdom, which is, you know, it doesn't matter. I'll try to clean this up. You know, who you're sleeping with. If you went to college, you know,

[00:13:36] you're still going to struggle to get a job. It's like, yeah, you're not wrong. But yeah, it is so funny how she and Tony slowly rebuild confidence in each other. It's like, I'm going to trust that you're going to stop sleeping with your dancers. But it's so funny when freaking. it's never even stop. It's just don't let it come home and don't. It's a bit of that. So I'm embarrassed. And, and as close as she gets is that Vic guy played by Joe Penny hits on her. And she's like, Hey,

[00:14:06] you're nice, but you got to leave. And the priest. Wasn't there a weird thing? And the priest. Yeah. Fucking priest. And isn't that the same guy that followed her over to the other show she was on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's freaking Ryan Chappelle who gets killed. He plays the shithead boss on 24. And I felt so good when Jack finally disposed of him. But yeah, it's so funny. it's so funny. Yeah. He, he was on Oz as one of the other prison guards with her.

[00:14:33] And then he was on both nurse Jackie and Tommy with her. So just, I think that's the other thing I like about the show. All those actors were legit friends. Like they were anything but hostile. Yeah. Like their on-string personas. They did, they did a reunion of the Sopranos. Like, I think it was 10, 10 years after the fact. And you knew Sirica was, was sick at the time, but, but, um, you know, I got to say. Was it at the Paley center? I think. I think, yeah, I think, I think, no, they did it on the today's show. Oh,

[00:15:03] they were talking about, you know, you know, doing that, that show. But the thing was, was that. I see it now. Okay. The thing I love is, you know, they, you know, they had, I think, I think Michael Imperioli's on it, on that one too. Yeah. And, you know, you think about Imperioli goes on from the Sopranos. He goes on to do, uh, law and order for like one season. Yeah. And then, you know, I didn't like his character, but he is without a doubt, a great actor. Like, great. He's a good actor. Yeah.

[00:15:33] Did, did you see, uh, that vampire drama, what's it called? It's not the turning. It's an Abel Ferreira film. And ironically, both him and Eddie Falco are in it. Um, I'll, I'll look it up. It's got Christopher Walken. Did anybody have an opinion about that prequel movie? Uh, I, uh, the addiction. And here, here's the other thing, like Vera Formiga, you know, I'm already half and half on her, but like she's playing again, Tony's mom,

[00:16:03] but she clearly has never seen an episode. She plays it like Eddie Falco's Carmelo. I'm like, you, why'd you play it as a different character? You gotta think, you gotta think that's how a mob wife is. No, no, no, James, but she, but she, but she's playing it as Carmela, not as the character. You know what I mean? Oh, okay. All right. But, but now I need to see that again. I watched it. Other than, I didn't get that for my first viewing, but, uh,

[00:16:32] I had some friends who had never seen the show and they really dug it. So other than Ray Liotta, who's always good. I think my main issue was, well, I was confused about that. They made him like different characters. Yeah. And I didn't know what the fuck was going on. I didn't have an issue with that. Same people had an issue with all two nights with Robert De Niro. So I'm like, it's two different characters. Well, well now that gangster movie you just mentioned, I thought that was decent, but so, so that my,

[00:17:00] my problem with Newark is it just showed how so much time had passed. And I felt like creator David chase doesn't forgot what made his show good. But like, then he kind of like rewrote his characters in a way that didn't make any sense. Like they're so concerned about Vietnam. It's like, well, that doesn't make any sense because there's a drug trade. He had too much time. No, I, I'm not talking about the drug trade. I, I, I, I kind of like Josh is saying, like he, he could have thought about this a little harder. Like basically,

[00:17:28] I think he thought about it too much. It could have been that. Cause like Leslie Odom's a good actor. Look at the South park guys. They do an episode in six days. Cause it's better if you just go with your first thought. Yeah. If you sit on it for time and time again, you're going to second guess yourself and you're not going to necessarily make it better. It might make it worse. And that's just it. There's good elements. Like Leslie Odom is a bad-ass in that movie. I love them in Hamilton and all those other TV shows. But then the other thing is they just keep talking.

[00:17:58] I'm not talking about the drug trade or I mean, like they keep talking about like the war. And it's like anyone who's watched the show there, they were like, Hey, we don't care what's going on. We're dealing with our own personal war. So it just kind of was like, okay, why did, why do they care about everything else that's going on? Soldiers. Soldiers don't go. Exactly. They were always worried about them. So it just felt like they were. And it also was just confusing because Alan Taylor had directed a bunch of

[00:18:25] episodes of the show and it just felt like he was just in mercenary mode. I'm like, I just, it didn't feel like it had an identity of its own. And I definitely was just like, it didn't work. It just didn't work. I would have told, I would have totally been up for like spinoffs or something else. Like, but I don't know. What'd you guys think of, of, uh, James Galbdolfini's son playing Tony. Oh, I like that. Yeah. He's a good actor too. Yeah. I have, I have showed up in daredevil. Yeah. As well. Born again. Yep.

[00:18:54] He's good. Yeah. I have, I have no issue with him. He's fine. I just, I love the kid who played Syl. It was awful. And like an over the top character caricature, but I want to watch him do Syl for the rest of my life. Who was it who played Don? I don't know, but it was, it was nonsense and it took me out of everything, but I also fucking love. He looked like a young Sean. Like it was so fucking funny to watch him do the Syl impression. It, Oh,

[00:19:24] kind of more, please. Uh, well, I thought the flashbacks, um, to Tony youth on the show itself were better than that. The movie. Exactly. Cause like, you get that covered there. Well, well, yeah, it just didn't seem necessary. Well, it wasn't. And the show, it is so funny when he is seeing his dad, you know, towards that, you know, convenience store owners, you know, place for the first time, you see Tony actually afraid,

[00:19:54] you know, it's like, he's a kid. He's like, I already feared that this man, you know, that a day goes by where he isn't going to lay a hand on me and abuse me. But man, like, I don't want to be like him. And then coincidentally, I'm a gangster. I do violent means, but. Well, yeah, I mean, that's what makes it interesting is he's a bad guy and it's bad guy, but everyone talks about him. Like he's a good guy. And it's like, he just has to conform to this idea that, oh yeah, he is. He was a standup guy. He was a good guy. No,

[00:20:24] he's a piece of shit. Well, and that they, they do the irony so well. It's so funny when, uh, Christopher and, uh, Walnuts are exacting revenge for their associates being killed by, you know, pretty much. This is where they go full blown. Godfathers. Like now it's time to take out the trash. We're getting even with all the guys who started the turf war with uncle junior and us. And they take out Mikey. They take out Mikey. And it's so funny. I love Paulie. Walnut's like, I got poison. I feel like he just murdered.

[00:20:54] Oh, that's like, I got poison. I feel like you're motherfucking so good. He just murdered a person. And he's absolutely right. Yeah. He's always complaining about getting mud or detached. He's so detached. So, but, but, but, but, go, go. So maybe the biggest villain of the Soprano series was the prequel. Oh, well done. It divided us even more, but yeah. Uh,

[00:21:24] but yeah, no, I, I always love how Walnuts is like, ah, these are new sneakers. These are new Reeboks, but yeah, I, I love it. Pot, uh, Mikey has the nerve. He has the nerve to be like, please don't fucking kill me. Like begging. That's so good. He's a psychopath. So good. After he just so coldly murders people over and over. And he's like, yeah, please. He still has the nerve, but, but, and it's so funny.

[00:21:52] I saw that actor do a funny standup you can find on the laugh factory. And he's like, man, that hurt like fucking hell. I got with three different blanks. There's a lot of squibs. Yeah. It's a lot of squibs, but I wasn't. Verhoeven ask, but it's pretty close. It's pretty close to the opening of Robocop, but I love how also just great editing, great non-intrusive music score in that scene. But then I like how you get a closeup of both Christopher, and Polly.

[00:22:21] They're probably the most hard and psychotic of Tony's crew. And then, and it's great when Tony kills the guy on the boat, he just pulls a clock out of a fucking trout. I had that. Oh yeah. I love that. That's where I was like, Oh, he's an action hero. Now he's not kidding when he says we are soldiers, but, but don't you love though? When they execute Mikey, like Christopher and Polly are not only out of breath, but they're also just channeling so many emotions. They're like, this doesn't change anything.

[00:22:50] We're still angry that we're going to get our friends back. It's like in any other show, it would have just been a cool montage with cool music playing. It's like, no, we're going to have all the awkward moments and just showing you is like, yeah, that's why I like the poison Ivy thing is so perfect. It's just like, that's a real thing. A poison. Yeah. You'll put also this other horrible shit is happening. It just, just like if it were a vigilante movie, a cop movie is like, yeah, but here's, here's the tables have turned. These are,

[00:23:19] there's no like hero pose moment. There's a two gangster. Yeah. The evil man got what he deserved. It's like, well, he did, but he did, but that evil men, right? There's going to be some other much like politics. There's going to be, it makes the audience sit with the fact that like, yeah, we might be sharing this, but we probably shouldn't be. Exactly. It's a self-aware gladiator match where it's like, this is a bad addiction, but you're here. So see how they handle all the blood,

[00:23:48] sweat and tears and mostly blood. But, and I got to tell you though, like I knew Gandalf, uh, not. Gandalf. Yeah. There's plenty of you shall not pass, but yeah. So I was a huge Pantoliano fan. You know, I'd seen him in every, I love Joey pants. Midnight run. Don't call me Joey. Yeah. Daredevil. Darede. Yeah. So there you go.

[00:24:16] It all comes back to freaking daredevil. The in crowd. The in crowd. He was in the in crowd. He was in the matrix. Matrix. Cypher was right. By the way, I would have been Cypher. Give me back in the matrix. Let me eat some steak. Now. I wish he actually had a mobster, uh, virtual reality thing is like, we're going to eat steak at Tony's place. But, um, like that was not only just great casting, but that is definitely, you know, Tony has a share of guys is like, I know.

[00:24:46] I don't really don't like you, but I know you're, you're out of line, man. Treat the ladies like, uh, with love and tell the guys, you know, to learn something. Joey pants is my, my choice for, uh, best villain. Oh yeah. And, and much like Richie April, like he's trying to make moves on Tony's sister. He's trying, and Tony's like, Jesus Christ. She makes moves on him. Oh, but, but he, he rubs it in his face. Cause he wants to basically make it personal with him and Tony.

[00:25:14] And it is a shame that when he and those crooked cops, uh, killed that one stripper, that that actress, it was so real to her, the method acting. She gave up acting as a whole, but yeah, that's, you don't remember the scene where they're in the strip club, they're all getting BJ's and, uh, he decides to kill her and they all come. Yeah, he does the, but that's on. Oh yeah. And, and rich and they're like, Richie, you didn't have to do that. She was what the hell dude.

[00:25:42] And so it is just so wild. How I was like, that is the ultimate thing. Like what's the most petty thing he could do. He's already threatened people been out of line, said tasteless jokes at weddings. What's the worst thing. The fucked up thing about that is once she gets killed, uh, Tony is pissed off and like starts hitting him. And like, I, I know, I've talked about so, but he's all about the life and the rules. And he's like, you had no right to do that.

[00:26:11] Like she wasn't yours. She wasn't related to you. Like he could do whatever he wanted to. And then it makes you wonder who's the real villain killing him over a horse or killing him just because he's a piece of shit. You know, like he was just looking for a reason. Yeah. He hated him before that. He hated him before. And I mean, Tony had the right to do that. Cause that was his turf. I know. And it's just so funny. Like how for, there's a lot of corruption in the show, but they do a good job of just kind of implying it is like,

[00:26:41] not only in that episode, but well, the rules of the mob, like he was fine to do that. Yeah. And Tony was not actually like that. Wasn't his establishment. It was still his establishment. Like he, he was, he was not like that. He had no right to do that in those rules. Right. And so that's why he kind of much like dealing with his cousin. He basically just waits for a personal one-on-one to just finally dispose of He waited for a moment. Yeah. Like it said, I mean, the top of the pile.

[00:27:11] Remember guys, this is the same guy who had a giant ship crash on those real estate guys. Lawn. Remember that? And that kind of brings up something else. I noticed that within, within the Sopranos, we mentioned, we mentioned codes of honor, different things like that. People playing by rules. That reminds me a lot of the John Wick universe. Oh yeah. Because there were someone in the continental. Yep. Yeah.

[00:27:41] Markers. You have different things that even though they are the worst people on earth, basically they are still, they are still bound by a code. Yeah. So Omar's older man's got to have a code. Yeah. You've got me thinking about something. You guys are probably going to make fun of me for this, but whenever you have, well, no, you're talking about the rules and stuff. They have certain attitudes about life. We actually knew the rules. And so do I, anyway, they have certain attitudes about life. And so you're not, you're less of a man.

[00:28:11] If you go down on a woman. Yeah. Or do you remember that? Whistling into the wheat. Oh my God. No, that is true. I do remember that. I did. Poor junior. She sounded like you're weak. And it's like, that was the most relatable thing I've, of junior to ever did. I was like, no, I got your back here. Normally you're a scumbag piece of shit, but I got your back here. This just became a blue comedy tour. Sorry. I got your back here. The idea that makes you gay is insane. Yeah.

[00:28:41] That might be the, the most, uh, like opposite of being gay, uh, action you could ever take. I'm more of a finger banging guy myself, but what? Um, there's another, uh, ambiguity episode. Remember the soccer coach that. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God. Well, the whole thing was what an upsetting premise. Tony was going to put the hit on him. I mean, he should have, but then he called it off and he gets drunk. No,

[00:29:11] but is he getting drunk? Because he thought he, I think he tells his wife, I did, I did a good thing or something like that. Yeah. Well, that's just it. He gets drunk because they're upset that he didn't do anything about it. It's a bit like, I think that's the point though. I think that's what I got. Good thing is not murdering someone, even though that person is a horrible person. He barely, he barely, he just let it go. He's like, somebody is going to get impacted. He's a shithead, but he's not, he's not part of anyone else's problem.

[00:29:41] He sucks, but that's not, it's not a war I have to fight right now. But yeah, I think I kind of got that same inference that you guys got. I was like, yeah, he just is gonna, he's going to just drink this off. Just let it go. And that was, that was very powerful. Kevin O'Rourke is a good actor, but man. Yeah. I wanted to punch his face in just like some of the other principles on that show. I was just like, Oh, Oh, that's what's great about the show is it doesn't give you that satisfaction of like, this is a person I'd actually,

[00:30:09] as a viewer want to see get their comeuppance. Yeah. Just like employee of the month. It's like, we would all love to watch Tony just take him out and do horrible things to him, but it doesn't do it. And it's just so funny how so many guys, just like any political corruption show, they do a good job of just showing them. And it's like, what's my reward. And Tony is just always good at just laying on. It was like, you get no reward. You just don't get hit.

[00:30:35] Like when he tells off that New Jersey police detective who's covering for him on the vice squad. Yeah. It's like, what do I do? And Tony's like, you do what I pay you to, you know, I'm not going to tell you any more than that. And the guy is out of options and he just flat out just, you know, commit suicide. And it's just so ironic. What a tragic figure. Oh, and there's another actor who unfortunately passed. I, he'll always be to me, the, the dad in home alone. And John, yeah,

[00:31:05] John Heard. Yeah. You've seen him in everything. John Herod. Yeah. Yeah. You've seen him in everything. Awakenings, the Pelican Bree, Cutter's Way. Yeah. Miami Vice. He is in Miami Vice. Fuck. And it's the same type of character in that actually. Oh shit. It all leads back to Miami Vice. We'll return after these messages. All right,

[00:31:34] we got a 90 minute weekly shack stop. It's growing all over the world. Find it at 2 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern time on Mondays, then 3 p.m. on Wednesdays, then 7 p.m. on Thursdays. You can catch it on many more radio stations, 99.9 KERV, 1 p.m. Central time, 2 p.m. Eastern on Mondays, then catch the Encore on Thursdays at 5 p.m. Central time, 6 p.m. Eastern,

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[00:32:32] Eastern time on MXTR FM, and 10 p.m. Eastern time, 9 p.m. Central, 1077 K Twins. Find everything on HowShack.com. HowShack. Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win in a fight between Goku and Superman? Hi, I'm James Gavsey, and on the Who Would Win Show, me and my co-host Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world and debate fictional battles between characters from comics, movies, and video games.

[00:33:02] We got a new show every week, and almost always am I the winner. Yeah, not true, Ray. In the past, we've discussed such matches as Captain America versus Darth Vader, Solid Snake versus the Iron Giant, classic matchups like Robocop versus Terminator, and even the Muppets versus Sesame Street. That one was crazy. So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate, check out the Who Would Win Show wherever you get your podcasts, or check us out at whowouldwinshow.com.

[00:33:33] There's about a few actors in this that were in Boardwalk Empire, too. Yeah, because HBO is one of its own channels. It's a good deal. I couldn't get into that one, but I did. That's a good series, though. I watched the first couple seasons, and I was like, I don't know. I think my problem was there just wasn't any suspense, especially if you know crime history is like, of course. But it was fictionalized crime history. It was taking part of the history, but it was fictionalizing it. But the comeuppance was pretty much the same.

[00:34:03] Like, because here's the thing. Like, Sopranos, I let go because they take a lot of the Gambino real-life stuff. You know, guilty on, you know, commit me to a psych ward on insanity so I avoid the death penalty. But, like, they would kind of like how you'll see on a crime show. There's someone clearly inspired by Ruby Ridge or Jim Jones. They kind of mixed a bunch of different gangsters together and had them be a composite instead of we're just going to flat out

[00:34:31] rip that whole real-life story off. Yeah, like the Lubertazes are not actual crime. Absolutely. Remind me, Steve Bassini was playing a character in Sopranos. Tony Blondetto. Yeah. I don't remember him. Yeah, he's in later, later season five, and I think he'd be on both James and I's top ten characters just because he is. He's great. He, well, and even though, again, he's another instigator, that's the other weird thing, too.

[00:35:00] You will feel sad when some of these people get killed, even though they're otherwise awful people. There's the brilliance of it. These are all horrible people. We should celebrate every time one of them gets got, but we don't. It's not like Scarface where you can choose. It is a little more Godfeder-ish, where it's like, but at least they had a code before. It's like when Ariana gets whacked, right? I felt sad. So unceremonious and, like, horrible. No, don't do it. Don't do it.

[00:35:30] He's just crawling away. He's crawling away, and still... Yeah, I know. But still, he's just doing his job. He's just doing... You were saying Adriana? Yeah, Adriana, yeah. Okay. Yeah, sorry, we probably said Adriana. She met a woman, and the woman was basically... FBI. Yeah, that wasn't her fault. She was... Like, how would you know? That's true. And great acting by that gal being the FBI gal. Like, she was amazing.

[00:35:57] She and the other gal who was later on Criminal Minds, like, both those gals, the blonde gal and the... I love when she pukes in the interrogation room. Oh, yeah, because they've only been undercover for a whole year. When they're like, you're gonna get killed if you don't do this. Well, and that's just it. That's just it. Like, if she was in a different lifestyle, she would be in a better way of life, and that's just it. Like... Yeah, she was in over her head. They're like... I wouldn't say innocent, but naive. That's just it.

[00:36:26] She's naive, and they're like, Dude, Dad, I just gave you the easiest walk-away car, but I can't leave him. Like, all the kids and Cheetos and nothing. It's so funny. You know, it's the spaghetti with ketchup. The egg noodles with ketchup. And unfortunately, I do have issues with both. What's his name? From Wings. Tim Daly's death.

[00:36:56] I love Tim Daly. I did too. Fuck Christopher for killing Tim Daly. I love Wings. You killed fucking Superman, but yeah. Hey, bada bing, bada boom. I killed Superman. Chris, you're in the mafia. That's my other issue with season six. My other issue with season six is I refuse to believe that Tony would kill Christopher as a mercy killing. No, that would not happen. I don't think it was a mercy killing. I think he was getting it...

[00:37:23] Like, that was a thought on his side that he realized he just needed... He found his way to get out of it, and he saw it, and he took it. Yeah. He whacked him for a whacking. Well, plus, he tells him he's doing drugs again. That kind of... Yeah, that's true. See? That's just it. And just like... And then he went and fucked his girl. Yeah, because she didn't have a seatbelt on it. Oh, that one... That gets me when Phil Littardo starts thinking...

[00:37:53] You know, and also like Stephen Sampson is like, well, no, no, because you did. Because the way your body compacted is... Phil's going, Phil's going, like, what the fuck do you know? You know, Phil Littardo to me is like... It almost sounds like another slur. Yeah. Full mentality. I like how Peeps was, like, on his side, though, and then he ended up killing him. Yeah, see... Like, in that moment, because the car is what you're talking about, right?

[00:38:23] And he's like, no, the seat's not supposed to be like this. And his boy, Peeps, was, like, looking at Buscemi like, all right, I'm with you. He's out of line. And then he murders the shit out of him. I know. It's just like, good grief. And so, in an alternate ending, I would have liked it if Christopher could have been just a talented screenwriter who can't get any work because he just threatens to beat up everybody except to select few connections. Yeah. That is...

[00:38:52] When he's in a good mood. Absolutely. Like, they're like, you have complete control. You can go into the ending room and everything. Well, I mean, he was so afraid of feeling any feelings. Like, in his acting class, he beat the shit out of the guy because he had an actual emotion. That's what's so funny. Like, you consider him secondary to Tony, and yet Tony's the one getting therapy. And he thinks, I'm too good for it. I'm not going to listen to him anyway. Yeah, I mean, that's the world of that.

[00:39:18] That's why he didn't want to tell anyone he was getting it, because it's this hyper-masculine world. Do listen to me here, Josh. And like, they're even weirded out by the fact that it's a woman. Hey, hey, Josh. Josh, you listen to me here, man. Hey, hey. Bada bing, bada boom. That's one of the best psychiatrists you're going to ever see, man. I mean, that's insane, though. They would have given him a pass if it was a guy? Like, what is that? What even is that? That's simple sexism. That's insane. It is.

[00:39:48] And that's why I say it. Yeah, I mean, of course it is. But, like, that's fucking wild. But it is. It's just so funny. It's like, it just shows you where we were at that toxic end of the 90s. People just thought, hey, women are secondary. Blacks don't mean anything. I just watched Mojo's thing about double standards in Hollywood. And they were talking about that and how it's not that same era anymore. Yeah, it couldn't happen now. Oh, yeah, for real. And I don't want it to happen now.

[00:40:17] Because we're beyond it. I know. My mother taught me manners. My dad taught me respect and using my words. You know, don't just blab shit. That's why you have a scene. What do you think? That's why we like you, Cam. That's why I like all of you guys. You guys are my family. My crime family. What do you guys think about when... Sorry. Sorry, go ahead, James.

[00:40:47] What do you guys think was the thing that, like, if you watch the show all around, right? Yes. And there's this thing where, like, I always say there's a moment where you just go, well, did that just fucking happen? Because... Oh, every season. But to me, there was one that got me was when Finn was working at the construction site. Oh. And he comes in and Vito's blowing the security guard. Yeah, that was funny. And then he's got to tell Tony.

[00:41:16] And Tony's like, you want to tell us something? And he's like, yeah, so I got to the work site this morning. And Vito was... I spoke. Okay, what was he? He was blown. He was getting... Wait. From the signal. He was blowing the signal. Oh, hey. Oh. You know. I always hated that because fucking Finn. Like, his life. Like, if that happened to me, like, you knew you caused that guy's death by saying that.

[00:41:44] Like, you got to look at that the rest of your life. And he's just a civilian, like a normal dude. He just wanted to love. He wanted to... But here's the thing. The one thing I think about with that scene is... Like, that's so upsetting to me. It doesn't sound like on a realistic part of it. Like, I'm a big dude. So, I'm like, how the fuck is he blowing him in that truck? Because he's a big motherfucker. That's a tight space. Here's the thing that gets me, well. Well, there's a will. There's a way, man.

[00:42:14] 20 bucks is 20 bucks, but who needs 20 bucks? Okay. So, anyway. Here's the thing that gets me the most is when... Yes. When the two guys... When the one guy's... The one guy's saying, hey, you got to hear this shit. Somebody just saw Vito at a... I'm going to use this term. A fag bar. And they call him and he's like, yeah, he was in there. He was dressed up like one of the fucking village people. You know, the motorcycle one? And the one guy's going, what... Oh, yeah, I remember that. That was so cute.

[00:42:42] And then the thing I love is the one guy's going, what the hell were you doing in that bar? And he's like, he was collecting. And he's like, okay, well, you know, it's like... It's like you say, it's not only just gay shaming, king shaming. Well, he was collecting, like... Like you say, just that careless thing just starts up a whole conflict that would have never been. It was a joke. I got a new medication. Yeah. And then the thing I love is... Littardo... Fuck... Fucking... Like... Like... Like...

[00:43:11] Littardo gets wind of this. And he's like, oh, hey, I don't want any of this problem because it's going to look bad on all of us. Well, he had... I'm a homophobe. Had some latent repressed gay tendencies, obviously. So what gets me is... But I got to cover it up because I'm in denial. Well, he did. He did some stuff in the can that he's not proud of and that's him overcompensating. Then he did some stuff in the can. I mean, that's why he comes out of the closet when they kill Vito. Like, that's not by accident. No, that's a great metaphor. Yeah.

[00:43:40] Like, that was very on the nose. I love it. This is what we're saying. That... That was a good... That was a good hype. I also love how Tony's like, hey, oh, c'est la vie. Like, part of me is like, who gives a shit? Well, and how about... That's about as progressive as you can get with this group of people. The thing I loved about that whole episode, that whole arc was Littardo takes the kid out for... And the kid's like all goth up and everything.

[00:44:06] And he's like, you know, when I was your age, you know, and the kid's like, I don't give a shit. Fuck you, pal. You know, and we're part of the... I got the game off of your shirt, man. One of the ways to show how their actions impact, like, the families and the other people around them. Yeah. It's like, you fuck these kids up. That dude was taking a shit in the shower just to fuck with his bullies. Like, that kid is fucked. So much mental health.

[00:44:33] Their actions impact all these other people. I mean, they show that all the time. Like, even with the cars that they're selling to Italy. It's like, you see these people jack a family and get their car and the guy yells a racist slur. And, like, that's perpetuating racism. That's causing all these other fucking problems. Yeah. Along with what they're doing. So much selfishness. So much inconsideration. Look at the scene where...

[00:45:03] What is it? Is it Pauly and the other... Who is it? The guy's Jewish and he's running to the hotel. And they fucking walk in. Yeah, Shlomo. They fucking rough up Shlomo. They rough him up. They rough a gay... Yeah, and they threaten to cut his balls off. Him and the hairdresser in those first few episodes. I'm like, man. Yeah. It's just, like, so much inconsideration when they're just there to do one simple guarding or one simple hit. They add to add...

[00:45:32] They don't need a match to start a fire. I just love seeing all the extra repercussions, like, from the actions. Where it's like, oh, no, it's just mob on mob. No, there's innocent people caught up in this shit. Well, you gotta think, too, those last couple episodes when, as I said before, we were talking about when Phil wants to go to war and Butchie's sitting there. And remember, it's already happened where... Well, when they try to kill Phil, they kill two innocent people because it looks like Phil. Yeah.

[00:46:02] That's a good point. Speaking of innocent people, I always wondered... There were certain restaurants in New York that would screen The Sopranos, and you could watch it. Oh, yeah. I was wondering how that drop-the-deuce scene went over. Oh, man. Can you imagine sitting at a big dinner with a bunch of people? Yeah. I would definitely lose my dinner. But how about the fact that Tony Lipp's a pretty good actor.

[00:46:29] Remember, this is the same guy dramatized in the biography Green Book. That was written by his son, you know? As Don Shirley's driver. Oh, okay. Portrayed in the movie by Viggo Mortensen. And I always thought that was cool because I was very familiar with Tony Lipp. He's one of the wedding extras in The Godfather. And, you know, just playing Carmine Sr. Same thing as Pauly. He's a loudmouth. He's got... He's an established mobster of the Libertarzi family. And it's just so funny. Like, he just says one too many things.

[00:46:58] And he's always like, hey, I'm gonna wring your neck after this card game. And you're like, dude. He's a big casino. It's totally like a casino. Yeah. But that motherfucker ran his mouth. And the wiretap was live. Well, the thing I love... The thing I love is when Junior... Tony... Junior gives the okay to put the hit on that one guy. Who's been... Who's like... He's like... They take him to a hotel. They tell him, you know, there's two prostitutes there. And then he's like...

[00:47:28] Yeah, Jimmy. Jimmy's been fucking mouthing off. And he's like... He's like... He walks and he goes, oh, shit. Pow! You know? Yeah, that's when he thinks he's the rat. Not... Not pussy. Like you say, he's... He's like... He's like, Casey and said that there's a fat fucking guy. He's like, oh, it must be Jimmy. I was worried about that. Was it actually Jimmy? Like, probably. Because everyone was a rat. I thought it was a deliberate confusion. Like, it didn't... Ultimately didn't matter. Because either way, he fucked them.

[00:47:58] Like, he's like... Now they're gonna keep being... I think he probably was, too. But I also think he was... Like, he was just trying to get any other answer other than killing his friend pussy. Don't kill a rat pussy. Hey, don't you call me that, Josh. Anyway, no, I know what you mean. But yeah, it is just so funny. Like you say, like, they will start... Basically, I take it as this. They start a chess game. They're not only... Not ready to start.

[00:48:24] They're also not ready to start. They're not playing fucking chess. Well... They're playing Stratego, but it's Stratego where people actually fucking die, you know? Well, so there you go. But what I'm trying to get at, ultimately, is like, they started a game. They not only weren't ready to finish, they weren't in a position to even win. Like, they played their... They weren't in a position to even play. Yeah, they played their cards not only so early...

[00:48:54] Because they're morons. Like, they're all stupid. And Christopher, unfortunately, he's the kind of guy, he always gets a bad deck, but he resorts to cheating. And you can't always cheat to get out of the way. No, he has... He's playing with a good deck. Really? He had every chance possible to get his fast track to be, like, number two and take over. And he fucked it all up. Well, it didn't help that. And he had Adriana, like, he had everything. But he doesn't listen to reason, that's the thing.

[00:49:23] He's a moron. He's... Well, not to mention how many... I lost track of how many times he got mugged over a stupid car. How many times did he do freaking blow off a hooker's ass? No. More than heroin, but yeah. It's so funny. I remember seeing a funny, like, summary of all the R-rated dramas on premium channels. And someone did a survey of how long it takes before you start seeing boobs and gore.

[00:49:53] Yeah. And it was like, Sopranos doesn't even pass the test. Like, within 10 minutes. Yeah, I gotta fucking kill him. We just had dinner with this guy. Look at my titties! Whenever they go to Sattarelli's Pork, and they gotta use the freaking... Retrielle. Yeah. I'm letting you do anything for here for a while. Yeah, yeah. You know. Oh, my God. Just like when he... Like Josh was saying earlier, how he takes the gun out on the boat. Same deal. Like, Chris just takes out the gun.

[00:50:22] He's like, thanks for the steak. Blam! You're like, what the fuck? He just pulls it out of, like, a big mouth bass. That's absurd. He's like, what the hell? It's totally a Goodfellas moment. It was like, you just had dinner with this guy, and... Or no, you killed a guy, and now you're gonna have dinner. I mean, if dinner wackings, that's my favorite, is when Sills at dinner with the guy from New York, and it all goes silent, and there just blood splatters on his face when the guy gets whacked. Oh! Yeah.

[00:50:51] That's my favorite one. What season was that? That's early on. It had to be like five or six. Yeah. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was when, like, all the turmoil in the Brooklyn family was going on. That was definitely a Godfather Cathedral montage equivalent. That was great. I was like, what? What? I had to rewind the tape. I was like, what? But also good on Syl. He just grabs the girls and leaves. He doesn't just bolt. He grabs them. Nothing to see here. He has a code. It's tomato size. It's not a good code, but he has one.

[00:51:22] And good example. I took a singer. He's never acted before, but I saw him on a MTV awards show with that wig. We want to have you play Silvio, Mr. Van Zandt from... Yeah, and he was, I mean, I'm sure you all know, he was... Initially thought to play Tony. Yeah. Really? Who was that again? Oh, you didn't know that? Silvio. That was the first idea. Van Zandt from Springsteen. Yeah. I had... He was supposed to be Tony. That would have been such a different show.

[00:51:51] Yeah, it wouldn't have been as good. They wanted a more experienced actor for the part anyway. That's how... Yeah. Yeah, I think it was like HBO was like... When then she told Chase, I'm not an actor, and David Chase said, you just don't know that you are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he is. He was fucking awesome as Sil, but he's not Tony. It's totally... It's exactly what it is. It's telling a Sinatra or even an iced tea type. It's like, just grow some confidence.

[00:52:20] Listen to what I'm going to tell you. It's going to be fucking magic. People will love it. You'll get more opportunities to act. Or you can be like the small contingent of actors who read our script 250 times and surrender themselves to the ball. Oh, now you're making me tempted if you're going to go that far. What would this have been like if someone like Joe Pesci or Samuel L. Jackson was on here? I was thinking of Anthony Hopkins because he's one of those who actually reads 250 times. So does Jackson. Jackson knows everyone's lines.

[00:52:50] So, I mean, yeah. I'm just trying to... That's the other thing, too. It was like they had a good mixture of unknowns and semi-knowns and people who had done stuff, but they're like, you know, the seventh on the call sheet. And it definitely made me respect all the actors. What was I was watching the other night? There was this movie a couple years ago. I remember as a kid. J. Michael Vincent plays this guy and he's in a... Oh! He's in a neighborhood. It's Defiance, 1980. Defiance and freaking... Sirico's in it. Yeah. Sirico's in it.

[00:53:20] No, it wasn't Sirico. Was it Sirico? No. Yeah. It wasn't Tony Sirico. No, it was Johnny Sack was in it. Johnny Sack was in it. Well, he's in it, too. Trust me. Really? Sirico's in it? I didn't know that. Oh! I can remember seeing Frank... He's also in The Godfather as an extra, apparently. The thing that cracks me up is seeing... Knowing that Frank Vincent and Joe Pesci had a comedy musical act together. Did they really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:48] In fact, I think... Yeah. He's in Goodfellas. Yeah. That's all I knew. Oh, Frank Vincent, that scene where he says, go home and get your fucking shine box. Well, yeah, yeah. But, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, uh, Sirico. You know, Sirico's also in... Oh, Sirico? Yeah. Tony Sirico? Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean... I can see that because I have seen Vincent, believe it or not, actually sing in some other movies. And I was actually sad when he died because I just knew how diverse he was. He had actually played dads once in a while and studied... Yeah. He wrote a book.

[00:54:19] A guy, a man's, a guy... I had that book. I gave it to my brother and dad as a gag gif. And they were just fucking just... I don't think they ever read it, but they, about shit boulders, just laughing at the cover of it. Get a woman in the mood. You gotta place your nots for it. Yeah. It wasn't very... Did I get late from reading it? No, I did not. But it was a very hysterical read, just... Especially just seeing all the celebrities who left a review on it, including Ray Liotta.

[00:54:48] Ray Liotta's was the funniest. It's like, oh, that Frank, that Frank. He's a rascal. You're gonna love him. He's there at Chiller. He's got his thing. I'm like, holy fuck. That's him. That's Phil LaTarda. And I'm a Phil LaTarda. Now, Phil, to me, as I said before, is the real bastard in that last season. Oh, yeah. You gotta realize, Johnny dies. He takes over.

[00:55:16] He's been priming for this for God knows how many years. I'm with you. I'm with you. And then he just says, fuck it. Tony fucked it. He had nothing to lose. He's... I think like you guys pointed out in his homophobia, but his other closeted stuff, he's just as insecure as Christopher. And he's all about, hey, I got nothing to lose, but I do fear Tony. I won't let my crew know that because I got to gain their confidence. You know, but... 20 fucking years. I still think...

[00:55:45] It's still a tie for me with Mikey and Ralphie. Like, I hate Ralphie the most, but I feel like Mikey is like... I fear him more because he's totally... He's basically a serial killer who became a gangster. He's a sociopath. Yeah, a sociopath. Yeah. A psychopath who loves, you know, sneaking up on people. He has all these sexy girlfriends. Like the way he just kills that guy in Camaro. He throws him off a bridge. Because Junior's like, hey, he shouldn't be laughing about that or whatever.

[00:56:15] He's like, hi, Mike. Bye, Mike. And he acts so cool when he's in the spa, you know, just hosing off. And you're just like, but you're gonna kill someone else and make him beg for your life. And you're gonna enjoy every minute of it. But yeah, Ralphie... When Phil gets whacked, that's the goriest, I think, the goriest I've ever seen someone get whacked. It's pretty gory. Cutting to the kids, like, yakking because his head got popped like a melon on the car.

[00:56:43] That is so much further than they needed to go. That's definitely... It's so much harder than it was necessary. That's definitely... That's definitely... And the wife... The wife's screaming like, oh my god, oh my god. And the car's rolling. And it's like a Wile E. Coyote bit. You're just like... Yeah. You're trying hard not to... Like, you're going, oh my god. But then you start... Oh, no, no, no, no. Oh, no, no, no, no. It's... Oh, no, no, no, no. It's like... It's like, oh, wait. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Stop the fuck.

[00:57:12] Put the brakes on the car. Just the sound of that crunch. And cutting to the kids' reaction, like, that's diabolical. Oh, and that's just it. It's totally a turn to them. Instead of showing it, like, they could have just shown it. Yeah. But cutting to them, that's so much more upsetting. What year was that? It was 07. 06, 07. Okay, so that was after the shield did their shit. Yeah. And gonorrhea from Band of Brothers is the one who did it. Oh, my God.

[00:57:41] That's a good actor, too. Yeah, he's great. James, did you ever see The Shield? What, Band of Brothers? No, no, The Shield. No, no, I never did. Dude, go watch that show. So basically, imagine Tony Soprano if he was a crooked cop stealing drugs from their means. Okay. Well, yeah, think about that. He goes from being a commish to being in the shield. That was what was brilliant about it. Kind of like Kiefer. Chickless rules, man. Exactly. Kind of like Kiefer Run 24.

[00:58:10] You'd seen him be bad guys. It's like, now you're going to see him be an anti-hero who, you know, knows how to, you know, stop terrorism. Same thing with Vic is like, he kills a narc in the first episode. And you're like, yeah, but this is the same act. He killed a hell in it. Yeah. From Homicide. Yeah, The Shield doesn't exist without The Sopranos. It totally doesn't. The episode, like, college that you're talking about where he kills the informant.

[00:58:38] Like, they were worried about airing next. It's like, how is the response going to be to our protagonist? And it's just so funny. Straight up murdering someone horribly. So funny that they're saying this. They didn't want to do that. Like, that was a, it was a different world then. I think maybe that's why they had to show that guy trying to kill him first. It was a bit of that, but it is so funny. Plus the Bourne identity. Oh, yeah. Imagine Tony going, hey, you're Jason Bourne,

[00:59:06] your tricks don't fool me, motherfucker. Yeah. I remember that got delayed because of 9-11 and shit. I remember that. But it is so funny. It's like, this is HBO, the same channel that, it's satellite. They don't play by the same rules as most sensors. You had no problem airing. Yeah, but they still worry about, like, viewership. I know, but if I could finish, just for a while. Like, let me finish, let me finish. Sorry. Is this so funny? I'm just like, you guys didn't hesitate

[00:59:35] with first and 10, real sex, and even freaking Tales from the Crypt, and you're worried about airing Sopranos. Really? Because it was up in the ante. That was a big thing. Yeah. Because you look at those previous ones, like, yeah, real sex was graphic. It was a documentary. Yeah, people didn't really watch it. Like, the Sopranos were starting to become, I know. Oh, shit, we gotta pay attention to this. It's like, oh, we have this bell cow now. Do we wanna fuck that up? Even then, they had Oz,

[01:00:03] which is basically an anthology about prisoners who... Oz is one of the most, like, masochistic, like, upsetting shows I've ever watched, and I can't finish it, because I just feel bad watching it. It's good. Yeah, no. It's really well done. That's what I want to say. Well acted, well scripted, everything, but it just bums me the fuck out. Fair enough, dude. I couldn't do Sons of Anarchy, and it was by the same guys as The Shield, so, um... I couldn't do that after that. Mayans.

[01:00:33] Oh, yeah. Mayans, yeah. Mayans, yeah. It was more respectable, but same deal, yeah. I was just like, I don't care. They all sound the same, and they're clearly not. They're all great actors. I just... I think what's surprising... Well, and so funny, did anyone see Ray Donovan? Wow. I saw a few episodes. Think of The Punisher, or Scarface, if he was a fixer, but it's very Sopranos-inspired, but... Like The Punisher meets Winston Wolfe.

[01:01:02] Yeah, I fix problems. I'm the wolf. I fix problems, but it's a good show, but I had some people who just gave up on it. They're like, his brother, he's a good actor, but he's so fucking whiny, and I was in the same boat where I'm like, I finished it, but I'm like, yeah, they just had so many scenes go on way too long. It's like, I get it. I get that he's having a mental breakdown. Let's fix it, instead of go 10 more scenes of him whining. I don't... So, I think every show does suffer from this. They have so much freedom,

[01:01:32] and that's the only time when I feel like an exec should come in and say, let's make this a little more of a dry run, guys. You know, like you made your point. I'd rather the freedom than the studio notes of people who don't know what they're doing. Well, that's the other problem. They often put... I'm always on the fan side of, like, let someone make something weird and stupid that shouldn't exist. Wes Anderson. Yeah, fuck it, man. Wes Anderson equals weird. Yeah.

[01:02:03] But, yeah, so, who is the ultimate big bad? Just like Breaking Bad, it's pretty hard to decide, because, you know, Walter White, he at least lied the whole time. Tony doesn't necessarily lie except to his restaurant friend. No, he lies all the time. He lies to his wife. He lies to his wife, but I mean... He lies to everyone. He lies to everyone, but I mean, at least... Including himself. At least we're clued in from the start. It's all about him. You know what I mean?

[01:02:33] Who's the big bad? Who's the big, big bad? Is it Phil, Ralphie, or Mikey? I think it's gotta be Phil. Okay. Do you think Ralphie's the most sadistic, like, fucked up person? Come on, the guy, like, getting plugged in the ass with his strap on. You know. That's, like, the most relatable thing about him. That's how we're basing this? No, that's the most relatable thing. He's with Janice, and she's like, oh, you like it, don't you? And I'm like, oh,

[01:03:02] this guy's a freaking... the reason I say Ralphie is because Janice was my close second, and those two were together doing horrible things. Yeah. Horrible things. To me... So, it's Ralphie to me. He killed the horse! The thing that, the thing that desensitizes you to not, to, like, thinking, holy shit, Ralph, you know, Ralph, that's when they're, when they're, they're, they're burnt, you know, they're putting his body in the freaking,

[01:03:32] in the lie to, like, dissolve all the, all the freaking... Oh, yeah. And he takes, he goes to pull the hat, he takes the hat, he puts it, and the freaking wig comes off. Oh, my God. And you start laughing. You're like, you're like, okay, we knew it was one, but to have Tony, like, see, like, see it, he just starts laughing, you know, you gotta, you gotta start laughing. With Phil, Phil's like, you know, Richie, Richie was just a psycho, Richie was, was pissed. He tried to get everybody to turn against Tony,

[01:04:02] and they were too faithful for Tony. Couldn't sell it. So what happens? He goes to Janice. Janice is gonna, Janice, you know, she's, you know, if he can get in with Janice, then he can get in, he can do what he needs to do for Tony. Janice is the Miss Piggy of the show. Janice, Janice, Janice is, Janice. But Ralph also, with the, what he did, the stripper who had his child inside of her,

[01:04:31] and he beat her to death. He beat her to death. He's the devil. But Phil, Phil is the ultimate price of a Machiavellian prince. He wants to, think about it. Think about it. Phil was playing by the rules. I just feel like, Phil's by the rules, but what he wants to do is, that's why I think Mikey's, He did 20 fucking years. That's why I think Mikey's more dangerous, because he doesn't play by any rules, and he sneaks up on everybody. Well, he did. He played by whatever Junior

[01:05:00] pulled his puck. But if he didn't have Junior, what would have stopped him? That's what I'm going to say. Phil saw, Phil saw, Phil saw the weakness in what was going on with Johnny and Tony, that they were like, okay, we'll talk about this, but, but, but, you do this, you do that. Okay, fine. Phil was, Phil was, you know what? Fuck it. I'll do what I want to do. Phil was a good soldier, because he did think fuck it, But he still followed orders. He still did what he was supposed to do,

[01:05:30] even though he disagreed with it. But when it, but when it comes down to it, when he's, when he's talking, what, what just happened? I don't know. Okay. Oh, Tom had to go. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Sorry. That's a bit too late. We're getting so animated. There's too much intensity, James. When you think about it, when you think about it, Phil, with the way he was, when, in that, in that scene where he's like, he goes, he's talking to Butchie and you know, you know, Butchie is like,

[01:05:59] Oh God, this is going to be, this is not going to end well for us. And then they have that meeting. And the one family, the one guy who's the head, the one guy who's like, he's kind of clueless, but he's the head of one of the families. Are you talking about Carmine senior or one of the other guys? Yeah. Yeah. Junior. He's not ahead of anything. He's just an asshole. The crowd, Cam and Ferris Bueller. I thought he was a wet t-shirt contest. You, sir. All right. Yeah, there you go. He, he got famous by just watching the man show. That's what he did. All right.

[01:06:29] But no, no, but say, you know, this part, you got, you know, you got Butchie, you got the other guy, you know, you got, you got, you know, you got her. I think Hesh is there. Hesh. Phil's not there. Phil's not there. It's Butchie giving the green light to Tony to whack Phil.

[01:06:56] To whack Phil because Phil has gotten power, has gotten power. Yeah, because he lost his way. He did do everything by the book, but he all of a sudden, he, he, he turned a corner where it was, he wanted his vengeance above all else. Yeah, that's what it was. Vengeance. There was never a vengeance. I don't think there was ever vengeance. And everyone else had vengeance problems. He didn't have any, I mean, he had it, but he still played by the rules. Like he wanted to do after his brother got killed. He bit his tongue.

[01:07:26] He could have been fed up with it. And it's like, now I'm in charge. So fuck it. Let's go. Fuck it. Let's go. I have to ask you, let's drop the gloves and go at it. Also, I got to ask you, what did you think about when the Sopranos invaded Sesame street? Oh, that was hilarious. Oh God. I remember that when Sharipa and Walnuts was on there and they're talking. And I don't know what it is. He's going, Ernie. Yeah.

[01:07:55] I got to get me out of the sweaters. Tight on me. Did you see that? Did you see them in the one Muppet movie? the 2002. But yeah, that was awesome. I love that. So the son goes, go, go use your hat. Yeah. And look, everybody's got, it's the, it's the old shit in your hat joke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As adult as they can be. And he, I love. Yeah. He was just having so much fun. Just giving, talking, talking smack to the Swedish chef. Yeah.

[01:08:25] And then I love when, when, when, uh, Gandolfini showed up. Yes. Oh my God. And then, sometimes I get scared, you know, but I don't want to bother me. I think he had a crush on Zoe, you know, but what do I know? And, and don't forget the idea of a parody of, of Sopranos for Harvey Burbank, attorney at law. Oh my God. Who, who played Flintstones? Yeah. The Flintstones. Oh, that's right. That's fucking.

[01:08:54] Oh my God. Oh God. And at the end, it's not really Fred. It's Barney. Barney. Barney, who's the head of the family. And it shows like, it shows, uh, my tour being like, you know, smothered under a, uh, smothered under a rock, you know? Um, Oh God. I remember seeing that episode, just like losing it. You know, when they did that whole ending, you know? Um, I think at one point, one of the feds calls Tony, uh, Barney Rubble, I think we were in the show.

[01:09:24] I, my favorite scene is when the fed shows me, he's like, yeah, I was over in Afghanistan for six months. Got some parasite. I mean, I need a veal Parmesan sandwich here. Oh yeah. Fine. You know, hope your asshole falls out. Anytime he tells any of them off and they are so close to like losing their case, just because one of them wants to box them is like, don't do it, dude. That's what he wants you to do. If you wanted to, you could look at someone should do a fan edit where you see only the feds wiretapping it. And it becomes a whole different show.

[01:09:55] It becomes a, how we almost took down Tony. And then he told us off and kicked our ass. The sitcom that takes place in a fed band. Oh, it's Keystone cops. Practically. Boo fucking. And who? I love when they're looking at and they write down the Tony Soprano question mark. Yeah. Yeah. They're not sure if they can even touch him or if he's even the main problem. They're like, we'll get to him later.

[01:10:26] All right, guys, I think we have summed it up, but that was fucking cool. You're going to say something more. There's more. You know, a fun fact. It's not the Soprano family. You know what the actual family was called the whole time? What? DeMeo. DeMeo. Yeah. And that boss was supposedly in prison the entire time. How about that? Never see him. How'd you like them apples? No, we got to talk real quick about the dream sequences on the show.

[01:10:56] I thought the eeriest one they ever did was Tony was dreaming. He was a, um, like a patio furniture salesman or something. Yeah. No, no, no, he was a servant in a house and there was a, a figure on the top of the stairs that stopped. Is that the same one that ends with an explosion? Like someone lights dynamite and he blows up and wakes up. Like there's one other one like that, but yeah. No, that figure on the stairs. To be fair. It's in shadow. I think it's supposed to represent his mother,

[01:11:25] but that was, does everybody remember that one? I, I'm sure I'll, I hate it. Serve it in the house. To be fair, Josh. This is when he got shot by Uncle Junior. To be fair, Josh, I think we're supposed to hate him. They just bothered me. It was just felt like masturbatory. They just like, okay, we're fine. I wouldn't go there. Like, just fucking do the show, man. I would say that. You know, like the dream stuff? I wouldn't say, I wouldn't say, if it's funny you're saying masturbatory,

[01:11:55] we're talking about a show about strip club owners. Masturbatory. Masturbatory. I know what you mean. Will you be masturbatory tonight or tomorrow? But anyway, that's all right. Yeah. I think you, I think you mentioned the best one. And that's enough. Yeah. I didn't mean to show you your place. I still think, I still, I still think the worst thing Tony did was drive that boat onto that real estate owner's house. That's pretty messed up. No, no. The worst. Let me ask you a question. What's your name? So,

[01:12:25] so, you know, you, you see my daughter, right? Yeah. He says, you know, you think, you know, you like, you know, charcoal, frquette, you know, uh, you know, Moulin Yon. And he's like, you don't, you know, the, the, the, the, the part where he's talking to that, that kid who hung out with Meadow and the, the, he just starts like saying these words. as he called them. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, I don't know if you watch football,

[01:12:55] but he looks like the, uh, uh, Miami dolphins head coach. Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. I was like, it's like, what the fuck is he doing? Was he turning me on Meadow Soprano? Um, but yeah, I, I see that scene and I start thinking, I've heard those words before and they were used to my house by my uncle, by my cousin, my father's cousin, Frankie. And I heard them a lot when I was growing up, you know, Oh dear. Yeah. I was like, I was like, you know, first off it's,

[01:13:23] it's the proper term, the Italian term, not the improper, the improper term is to seal. And then you say Moulinan. And I was like, I was like, I was like, wait, wait, hold on. I wait, what, what, what's it called? That's what, that's the word. He's like, yeah. I was like, well, okay. I was like, I was like, I'm like 10 years old. I'm like, okay, whatever. You know, adult me. Oh, yeah. I know.

[01:13:53] And I'm sitting there like, Tootsie Roll. I said,

[01:14:23] Tootsie Roll. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple, and anywhere else podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening.