A Ranking of the Villains in the Jason Bourne Movie Saga (with Kelsey & Maddie from The Oscars Got It Wrong Podcast!)

[00:00:04] Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne.

[00:00:09] Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne.

[00:00:12] It's a JackedUpReviewShow, it's a JackedUpReviewShow.

[00:00:58] Welcome all, welcome all.

[00:00:59] We have very exclusive guests here tonight.

[00:01:02] Kelsey and Maddie from the Oscars are Wrong podcast.

[00:01:07] And here we are.

[00:01:08] Happy to be here. Hello. Hello.

[00:01:10] We decided just so many different movies and shows, and I was like, Hey,

[00:01:14] if we're going to revisit one particular franchise, how about we talk

[00:01:17] about to determine what or which parts were well written?

[00:01:20] Let's just go with the antagonist.

[00:01:22] Then we did this with Die Hard and that was a hard one to do because it's like,

[00:01:26] we really have nothing else to talk about other than Hans Gruber because

[00:01:29] they're fine, but it's Hans Gruber or nothing.

[00:01:31] Even though they did a good job, they didn't.

[00:01:33] It's just like with the James Bond villains.

[00:01:35] It's like, it's just, you can't compete and just ruin it for everybody.

[00:01:39] So welcome, welcome.

[00:01:40] Kelsey was saying off air is like so much research and then having to

[00:01:44] implement what would have been in a better alternative award season wise.

[00:01:48] Yes.

[00:01:49] Where do you fall on blockbusters?

[00:01:51] Like as we were joking off air of the Trent Stone cinematic universe.

[00:01:58] I think we're big fans of blockbusters, not all of them, but generally the

[00:02:02] concept we appreciate, which is funny given our podcast is about such a

[00:02:07] high brow thing as the Oscars.

[00:02:11] Well, I think that's one of the things that's fun to do.

[00:02:15] So as you mentioned, the way our podcast works is we select a year at

[00:02:19] random.

[00:02:20] We watch all the best picture nominees, but we usually often try to bring

[00:02:25] in additional films that have, but we call cultural relevance and

[00:02:30] they're often genres that don't get a lot of attention at the Oscars,

[00:02:34] whether that's horror or action or sci-fi.

[00:02:37] Comedy.

[00:02:38] Oh yeah, comedy.

[00:02:40] And it lets us touch on some of our favorite movies and maybe to the

[00:02:44] point of this podcast, we did the 2002 ceremony, which honored the

[00:02:48] films of no, it was the 2003 ceremony that I had the films of

[00:02:52] 2002.

[00:02:54] We get confused.

[00:02:56] And that was the year the Born Identity came out and we did a whole

[00:03:00] bonus episode on the Born Identity because it is one of our favorites.

[00:03:04] Yes, we are born identity super fans.

[00:03:07] A good hour talking about it because yeah, the Oscars often doesn't

[00:03:13] honor popcorn fare.

[00:03:16] It deserves more respect.

[00:03:18] It is hard though to like summer, so well shot, but so dumb.

[00:03:23] And then there's other ones which are very engaging really do have a

[00:03:27] good script, but because they went by that genre, they were ignored.

[00:03:32] And I see horror and comedy fans complain about the same thing and

[00:03:35] I get it, but it is like, man.

[00:03:39] I think it's just that, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of not great

[00:03:42] ones, but there are plenty of not great serious dramas as well.

[00:03:46] It's about recognizing when something is really well made for

[00:03:49] what it is, right?

[00:03:50] So they could be a perfect comedy or a perfect horror movie and that

[00:03:53] still doesn't get the respect generally of the Academy.

[00:03:56] So just broaden your horizons everyone.

[00:04:00] I would hope man.

[00:04:03] I actually surprised my parents the other day when they were

[00:04:05] like, hey, you know, like they saw an ad for some new upcoming

[00:04:08] blockbuster and they were like, well, I can.

[00:04:11] You like car chases.

[00:04:12] And I was like, actually, those are the worst parts of any action

[00:04:15] movie. Take it out.

[00:04:17] Sometimes they're good.

[00:04:19] Like in born movies.

[00:04:21] Yeah.

[00:04:22] This is like an exception to the rule.

[00:04:24] Or what was that movie we watched, Maddie where they had the

[00:04:26] car chase on the L with them?

[00:04:28] Oh my God.

[00:04:29] With Billy Crystal.

[00:04:30] Yeah.

[00:04:33] What is that kind of Gregory Hines.

[00:04:36] Chicago cops.

[00:04:37] Yeah, running scared.

[00:04:38] Yes.

[00:04:39] The car chase on the Chicago L.

[00:04:42] Pretty cool.

[00:04:44] Remarkable.

[00:04:45] We've never seen anything like it.

[00:04:47] Those are fine.

[00:04:48] It's just, but when you get to like even like at least the

[00:04:51] weapons equals like take out the car chases because there's

[00:04:54] like five of them per movie.

[00:04:56] Yeah.

[00:04:57] He goes so much faster.

[00:04:58] They can get a little, you know, sort of self-indulgent as

[00:05:02] the movies go on.

[00:05:03] But when they're used for character as they are in the

[00:05:06] born movies, great, great, great stuff.

[00:05:09] The TV show 24 is good at it.

[00:05:11] It's like, it's like every six episodes, but it's, it's like

[00:05:15] earned because like, okay, he's got to get to that drop site.

[00:05:18] And he's got time pressures.

[00:05:20] He's going to be driving quickly all the time.

[00:05:22] I assume there's that some James Bond movies do it good.

[00:05:25] There's others that take it out.

[00:05:27] It's just to make it.

[00:05:29] 150 minutes of Terminator.

[00:05:32] I think the better ones did it good at just.

[00:05:35] I mean, yeah, the LA like river stuff is just good.

[00:05:41] Got to, got to love it.

[00:05:43] There's so many memorable ones.

[00:05:45] It's just that there's more trash than there is memorable

[00:05:48] anything, right?

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:50] There's way more bad movies than there are good ones.

[00:05:52] We've seen how bad it can be.

[00:05:54] Yeah.

[00:05:55] Oh, so I saw a lot of these on TNT back in the day with

[00:06:01] my father and we saw Ultimatum in the theaters.

[00:06:04] So it's a classic dad watch movie.

[00:06:06] It was, but he.

[00:06:08] It really got me into.

[00:06:10] I think that's why I'm also into all the other screenwriters and

[00:06:13] talk fast. Tony Goroy is kind of the B side of.

[00:06:16] Aaron Sorkin.

[00:06:18] It was like someone's coming in.

[00:06:20] Delightful comparison.

[00:06:22] He's having a paper.

[00:06:24] We got to talk and I was like, wow, the sea.

[00:06:27] I can actually be.

[00:06:29] Yes.

[00:06:30] Walk with me.

[00:06:31] Talks in the barn movies for sure.

[00:06:35] I'm not going to talk about that.

[00:06:37] I'm not going to talk about that.

[00:06:38] I'm not going to talk about that.

[00:06:40] Especially when we get to know a vise and you know,

[00:06:42] this may be a David Strayhorn fan and he's gone out into

[00:06:45] everything.

[00:06:46] You know,

[00:06:47] Love David's truth Aaron.

[00:06:48] Speaking of fictional alien language that doesn't exist on the

[00:06:51] expanse. So yeah, he's.

[00:06:52] He's the scene still, but it was so funny how I see him here

[00:06:55] and I just love how he's talking to all the texts who are all

[00:06:58] good New York based actors.

[00:07:00] And he's like, get me something on the visual now.

[00:07:03] I'm going to talk about that just a little bit.

[00:07:05] I'm not going to talk about that.

[00:07:07] I'm not going to talk about that.

[00:07:08] I'm going to talk about that.

[00:07:09] I'm going to talk about that.

[00:07:10] I have loud outside noises because of this city born is.

[00:07:13] Jason Bourne is outside on a motorcycle.

[00:07:15] It's, it's kind of funny because these movies are not that old,

[00:07:18] but the first one is more than 20 years old now.

[00:07:21] And you do really feel the difference in the tech.

[00:07:23] It's funny to watch the CIA try to chase them down.

[00:07:27] I would.

[00:07:28] Well A also.

[00:07:29] I was like,

[00:07:30] I'm always struck when I revisit them how post 9 11 early,

[00:07:35] like Iraq war, homeland security. They are.

[00:07:38] I think it's going to be very interesting as kids get older

[00:07:42] to see like how these play for them when they weren't in that.

[00:07:45] How did you?

[00:07:46] That soup.

[00:07:47] How do you introduce,

[00:07:48] you was talking earlier off air how you.

[00:07:51] Uh, you know,

[00:07:53] uh, have to figure out different.

[00:07:56] Um, movies and shows that work for different crowds.

[00:07:59] And it's annoying when, especially where it's like, okay, well,

[00:08:01] historically this is an important movie.

[00:08:04] You know, I drive my sister crazy anytime Lawrence of Arabia is

[00:08:07] on. I'm like, I'm watching it.

[00:08:08] I know what I know.

[00:08:10] And I'm surprised she doesn't like it because she usually likes

[00:08:12] historical stuff.

[00:08:13] Like this is no different than Lincoln dear Hunter.

[00:08:16] A lot of, a lot of, uh,

[00:08:19] quiet empty nothingness in Lawrence of Arabia.

[00:08:22] You really got to buy into the cinematography.

[00:08:25] Uh, I just liked the whole,

[00:08:27] this guy is fighting a war. No one wants him to fight.

[00:08:29] And he does it anyway, but yeah, teach their own.

[00:08:31] Uh, but yeah,

[00:08:33] I'm not shitting on Lawrence of Arabia.

[00:08:35] I'm just saying it's not for everyone.

[00:08:37] Okay. Whatever works.

[00:08:39] So that's a good point on the tech.

[00:08:42] You might get more snobs who work for screen read.

[00:08:45] I'm just saying, I'm not sure if you've ever seen a screen

[00:08:48] read.

[00:08:49] I've seen a screen read.

[00:08:51] I've seen a screen read.

[00:08:52] 50 things wrong with this based on a screenshot on the blue red.

[00:08:55] I didn't notice the last 20 times.

[00:08:56] And it's like, well,

[00:08:57] That's when it was made.

[00:08:58] No one knew.

[00:09:02] Well, yeah, there's the difference between something that's

[00:09:04] just old tech and something that's an error at the time.

[00:09:07] At this time I had a crappy Nokia phone.

[00:09:09] I didn't have an iPhone.

[00:09:11] I funds didn't exist.

[00:09:12] I was like, I'm just delighted by it.

[00:09:14] Every time I watch older talent, someone has a flip phone.

[00:09:16] I just get very excited.

[00:09:18] I kind of miss the phone.

[00:09:20] There's a definite nostalgia.

[00:09:22] There's a tactile quality to a flip phone.

[00:09:25] Game time.

[00:09:26] Missing these days.

[00:09:28] Yes, people don't think about the tactile quality with

[00:09:30] phones much anymore.

[00:09:32] I mean, have you seen Blackberry, by the way?

[00:09:34] No.

[00:09:35] As an aside, I watched it recently.

[00:09:37] It's delightful, but there's a lot of conversation about the

[00:09:40] tactile quality of Blackberry.

[00:09:42] I held on to my phone that had a like a true keyboard for a

[00:09:46] very long time.

[00:09:48] I was very reluctant to give up my actual slide out.

[00:09:51] And the creator of Blackberry thought that everyone else

[00:09:55] agreed with you and him, but that apparently wasn't it.

[00:09:59] Well, me and other people often don't agree on technology.

[00:10:03] I'm holding onto things.

[00:10:05] Some movies look bad in 4k, for instance.

[00:10:09] But for sure.

[00:10:10] Yeah, even though they're supposed to look better by default.

[00:10:13] Well, better depends on what metrics we're using for that.

[00:10:17] The older it is, the more it's going to be hard.

[00:10:20] Looks clear.

[00:10:22] Not everything should be crystal clear.

[00:10:24] No.

[00:10:25] I will be sure to check out that biography movie.

[00:10:28] I know there was something else on Apple that was another

[00:10:31] biography film, Elizabeth Banks.

[00:10:35] I heard a lot of those recently.

[00:10:39] That's true.

[00:10:40] I've heard bad things about Tetris, but I haven't seen it myself.

[00:10:43] The beanie bubble.

[00:10:44] The only one I can vouch for is Blackberry, which I quite liked,

[00:10:49] which has Glenn Howerton from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

[00:10:52] and he's very good.

[00:10:54] He's amazing.

[00:10:56] But that's an aside.

[00:10:58] Back to the tech and then transitioning on to the villains.

[00:11:02] Yeah.

[00:11:03] No, the tech serves the purpose.

[00:11:05] Obviously they have certain computers,

[00:11:07] but they're not just like trying to give,

[00:11:09] let's get a close up of this Dell or Apple.

[00:11:11] Enhance.

[00:11:12] Yeah.

[00:11:13] Yeah.

[00:11:14] There you go.

[00:11:15] Enhance.

[00:11:16] Yeah.

[00:11:17] But you're right now.

[00:11:18] It's not very product placement in the, in the born movies.

[00:11:20] I think it would be today.

[00:11:21] You'd have our Sony bios or whatever.

[00:11:24] Kevin Hart and a Pepsi.

[00:11:26] They were just missing out on an opportunity for extra cash

[00:11:29] money.

[00:11:30] I guess, I guess they got enough sponsorship to where it was like,

[00:11:34] as long as we see it on screen, we don't care.

[00:11:36] So were you already fans of Will Hunting slash private Ryan?

[00:11:42] Will Hunting slash private Ryan.

[00:11:45] I don't remember.

[00:11:47] I mean,

[00:11:48] I think I saw the born identity in theaters.

[00:11:50] Yeah.

[00:11:51] We were 13 or so when this.

[00:11:54] At the same time he was doing the Kevin Smith movies.

[00:11:57] Yeah.

[00:11:58] And I grew up in a household where like,

[00:12:01] we were strict about rating.

[00:12:02] So this was probably one of the early PG 13.

[00:12:05] It's on TV.

[00:12:06] You can watch it otherwise that I got to see in the theater.

[00:12:09] So I don't know that I came into it with like a strong feeling

[00:12:12] about Matt Damon as a, as a 13 year old.

[00:12:15] I don't know what I would have seen him in.

[00:12:17] I'll get you a styles and just didn't say the last dance.

[00:12:20] I might've honestly had more feelings about you.

[00:12:23] I think I would have seen him.

[00:12:25] As a 13 year old girl in 2002.

[00:12:27] I would have seen those for sure.

[00:12:29] I don't know about you, Maddie.

[00:12:31] I truly do not recall.

[00:12:33] I'm guessing I would have seen.

[00:12:36] I probably had seen some Damon before I grew up in a household

[00:12:39] with much older sisters.

[00:12:42] We were, we were not that serious about ratings in my household.

[00:12:46] So yeah.

[00:12:48] I wouldn't be surprised if I had seen various other Damon things.

[00:12:53] But I really,

[00:12:54] I don't have a strong memory of the first time I watched this movie.

[00:12:58] I just feel like I've loved it forever.

[00:13:01] I've always loved born.

[00:13:03] Exactly.

[00:13:04] It's a formative action film.

[00:13:08] It kind of is.

[00:13:09] It does kind of make you want to see where was this film?

[00:13:11] Is it actually in Paris or is it, you know,

[00:13:13] just a green screen with this, you know,

[00:13:16] that's a good question.

[00:13:17] It looks like Europe.

[00:13:18] I'm sure they filmed it in Europe, but I don't know if it was Paris.

[00:13:20] They might have done like Prague, like everybody else does.

[00:13:23] Probably did.

[00:13:25] But yeah, I think,

[00:13:27] I think this would have been a my first time seeing a number of

[00:13:30] these actors throughout these films.

[00:13:32] You didn't Chris Cooper and Brian Cox legends.

[00:13:36] Yeah.

[00:13:37] No, I wasn't super into Chris Cooper as a 12 year old.

[00:13:40] You hadn't seen October sky yet.

[00:13:42] I'd seen.

[00:13:43] I probably.

[00:13:44] On cable TV and he was in,

[00:13:47] I know there was adaptation and then there was the kingdom and a

[00:13:51] few others, but yeah,

[00:13:53] my family knew him from lonesome dove.

[00:13:56] But yeah, he,

[00:13:58] he definitely was one of those.

[00:14:00] I'm like, yeah, that guy, he can carry a room.

[00:14:03] You know, he doesn't have the looks,

[00:14:04] but he has that sharp kind of.

[00:14:06] Well, talk to me that way.

[00:14:08] And.

[00:14:09] Yeah.

[00:14:10] He is interesting to me in that he's not the one running the show.

[00:14:16] Nope.

[00:14:17] But yeah, as, as Conklin, who is a big prominent.

[00:14:20] Figure in the books and even played by a William Sadler.

[00:14:24] And there was a cool.

[00:14:26] That was the one who was kind of,

[00:14:28] you know,

[00:14:29] kind of a very conservative and conservative.

[00:14:31] The older conspiracy video game, which was closer to the books,

[00:14:34] but kind of followed this button mashing.

[00:14:36] Finding style of the movies that I beat in about two days.

[00:14:39] And.

[00:14:40] Yeah, there's something about that guy. He's not the one.

[00:14:43] Pulling all the strings, but.

[00:14:45] He feels like he is. We feel like he is until we are given more

[00:14:49] info.

[00:14:50] Oh, it's Abbott.

[00:14:51] Oh, I mean, he's the.

[00:14:55] No, it's not.

[00:14:56] I mean, I think it's interesting.

[00:14:58] And I'm,

[00:14:59] I'm, I think that's a great question.

[00:15:01] You know, you're a very, very, very mature.

[00:15:03] You were believable. You don't, there's no, you know,

[00:15:06] questioning Chris Cooper and Brian Cox as these government

[00:15:09] bureaucrat types like.

[00:15:10] Yeah.

[00:15:11] There's no, there's no problem there.

[00:15:12] Totally.

[00:15:13] I just think it's interesting.

[00:15:15] I don't know if I should start with this or conclude with

[00:15:17] this, but to me on my,

[00:15:19] my rewatch of the.

[00:15:21] I really think none of the villains slash antagonists whatever are that unique or interesting because to me the villains of the movie are like government overreach and the surveillance state and bureaucracy and stuff right everybody

[00:15:35] They're associated by

[00:15:36] Who's against him is just an avatar of the government in some way they're not like evil and trying to kill him they're just carrying out the orders of the day

[00:15:46] They're all brainwashed there's only like

[00:15:49] I mean some of them are like self-serving selfish. They don't they're not like nice people

[00:15:55] They're just bureaucrats trying to get ahead in their jobs

[00:15:58] Also learned that Brian Cox is like doing some shady shit with the Russians to exactly ash on the side

[00:16:08] He's part of an operative, but yeah, he's really just covering up other stuff because he knows it could incriminate his other

[00:16:15] Yeah

[00:16:18] Evil mastermind right he's just like a guy trying to cover

[00:16:23] Exactly and so I think that's a good quality of all the villains of this series is glad that Pamela isn't the main

[00:16:30] Oh, she's she's she's nice. I mean I think we just working here and realizing

[00:16:36] Oh my second about like antagonists really more than villains throughout this

[00:16:40] But I just find that just wild how when born infiltrates in they're like how'd he get in

[00:16:46] Look at her like we know how he got in

[00:16:50] She is just quite naive, you know she has the fifth in with supremacy supremacy is the second one. Yes, obviously she is

[00:17:01] Uh

[00:17:02] Tricked right like she truly doesn't know what's going on and then by the third one

[00:17:06] I think she's more on it and she's like this isn't what I want to be doing

[00:17:09] Right and there is a naivetade like working for the cia

[00:17:12] That's what I mean. I think the fact that she's like this isn't us and you're like, okay. Well have you heard of the cia?

[00:17:19] but absolutely

[00:17:20] Uh, Ezra Kramer is another one you might recognize that's scott glenn from bright stuff

[00:17:27] Uh, he's now been more prominent on the daredevil tv show but uh, but when I saw that in the theater

[00:17:32] My dad are like, hey

[00:17:34] Where's he been?

[00:17:36] I mean this is

[00:17:39] Of like that guy character actors, right? Yeah, he doesn't everybody in it is someone that you'll recognize

[00:17:44] You know, yeah, but at least he wasn't having to be so well dressed and everything. He was kind of more

[00:17:49] He's just like are you gonna get it done?

[00:17:52] It's so good a tone. Yeah

[00:17:55] Is like he is basically filling everyone's pockets

[00:17:58] this

[00:17:59] He's very much in the background of the film just occasionally getting on the phone to be like any updates. All right

[00:18:05] I'm surprised it's a cia operation because to me for the most part it feels more like NSA where you're supposed to not acknowledge that any of these

[00:18:12] operatives exist at any point

[00:18:15] Well, there's lots of people who work from cia that are not ever to be acknowledged as cia operatives but um, but like

[00:18:23] instead of controlling like

[00:18:25] A big giant like protests or something uh, like they're

[00:18:30] They're doing some big big infiltrations and

[00:18:33] And definitely I know almost all of them get into just legal fender benders because

[00:18:38] Total violation of rights, but but like these guys like some of these merch they're actually killing because they're like third third third third third party

[00:18:49] Yes

[00:18:53] So they aren't maintaining the wall of separation as well as they should be

[00:18:56] The five version of x-men

[00:18:59] Do we want to go in chronological order through the films and the villains? That's where you stand. Yeah, that would make sense

[00:19:08] I am happy to do that

[00:19:10] so we've

[00:19:11] Talked a little bit about conglon and abit, right?

[00:19:15] Yeah, you know, they're up to something. You know, they're kind of playing games with each other and they're not on the same page

[00:19:22] Yes, they are very much not on the same page and conglon is like the french know who he is

[00:19:27] Damn it. We got to kill some cops too

[00:19:31] They are pretty trigger happy for people who are supposed to be running a covert organization

[00:19:36] Well, another thing we should talk about throughout this process is how competent is each of these quote unquote villains

[00:19:42] That's a good conversation to have I feel like the assassins are pretty competent but the

[00:19:50] Uh the the one's doing all the order and like vozin when you get to he's in the background

[00:19:56] Uh supreme receive and you see

[00:19:58] Get schooled by landy so many times and it's just

[00:20:03] But but yeah, but that's so wild how he thinks he's in control and he's really not because and then

[00:20:09] You lose track of how many times he just kind of scolds is like

[00:20:15] Hey, he doesn't even have any coffee. He just seems to be

[00:20:18] He's I don't know if he got in on charisma or confidence, but

[00:20:23] Who knows who knows what his career path is so then I guess yeah, let's talk about

[00:20:28] The main guys of the first one conglon and abbot how competent are you feeling that they are Kelsey?

[00:20:34] I mean with what we knew at the time. Yes without the knowledge of of the later movies

[00:20:40] Abbott seems fairly competent. Right. I mean he comes out of the whole thing scot-free in the first

[00:20:45] loud

[00:20:47] He pretends not to know what's going on. He really has full, you know awareness of what's going on

[00:20:53] Ponclan is always on, you know, his back foot

[00:20:58] We talked about in our lengthy borne episode. I love the scene when uh

[00:21:02] Abbott comes in and says

[00:21:04] All right, you found him. How long does it take for them to come in?

[00:21:09] Conglon's a little assistant, uh Danny's horn is like

[00:21:12] Uh, 24 to 48 hours and chris cooper has to be like, I guess that's what it is

[00:21:17] You're like, I'm getting him in 24 to 48 hours. Why did you let your assistant? Yeah, you should have jumped in

[00:21:24] Why let Danny's horn answer that? I didn't know that was a golden line

[00:21:28] It's like they kind of got realistic

[00:21:30] Expectations, but then now that they're impatient

[00:21:33] Now as soon as they got confirmation now they want instant results. It's like no no

[00:21:37] I I see him. I haven't actually nabbed him. I haven't

[00:21:40] I mean the problem is at that point they're trying to sell like well, we flushed him out

[00:21:44] But he's definitely just going to turn himself in because this is what they do

[00:21:48] They do their mission and then come back

[00:21:51] But no, he knows who he is so

[00:21:53] You needed to say at least 72 hours 72 would have been safer

[00:21:57] Yeah

[00:22:00] But that just shows you how

[00:22:03] Ruthlessly are doing extent as well as they

[00:22:06] I feel like Danny panic. Yeah. Well because conklin you're like, why are you looking at me?

[00:22:12] I'm terrified of word habit like I don't want to have to answer this question

[00:22:17] No, that's true. Um

[00:22:19] Uh, yeah, I love Gabriel Matt. Uh not mac

[00:22:23] Man, I think his last name is right Gabriel man

[00:22:26] Gabriel man. Yes. Yeah, you're right and

[00:22:28] It's the same that he gets turned on he's being used as a pawn by poor sweet boy

[00:22:34] Yeah, um, but yeah, I think in the first one Brian Cox feels the most competent the most ruthless

[00:22:40] You know the biggest bad of that movie right and when he's giving that one

[00:22:46] It's like congressional hearing too at the end when he's like, yeah

[00:22:50] Well, it turned out didn't work out. So we shut it down

[00:22:53] No, he's he's sick that treadstone agent on chris cooper. That's when you realize like yeah, he said full control this whole time

[00:23:00] He's absolutely well that was what was wild too. It's like he's here for born and then born kind of somehow turns the tables making him

[00:23:07] I thought he was there

[00:23:08] I've always misremembered that so it's like he wasn't there you think he's there to kill born

[00:23:12] But yeah, he's there. Yeah, they try to sell it because cooper and borne are both walking down the street alone at the end of it

[00:23:18] And we see him come out of a car and you assume he's gonna kill born but instead he's there to kill cooper

[00:23:23] That dude was kind of underrated assassin. Yeah, he almost thought it was a star wars

[00:23:27] Will he be in the next chapter? Nope just a one off

[00:23:29] Yeah, that's a shame. He's good, but I do want to say

[00:23:33] Can we talk about not really a villain but an antagonist and the greatest one in my mind of the whole series

[00:23:42] Go ahead, but I want to talk about the first assassin as well if we're gonna have a

[00:23:46] Yeah, we'll talk about him too. The the one who jumps through the

[00:23:53] I want let's do highlights and then bring in some lowlights from

[00:23:59] The greatest

[00:24:01] Antagonist in the series and maybe one of the best performances with like less than five lines

[00:24:06] I've ever seen is clivo and's the professor. Absolutely

[00:24:10] If you listen to the riff tracks, I don't know if you guys know that's the

[00:24:14] Movie riffing guys who you sing up. I'm using commentary while you watch a movie

[00:24:19] Okay

[00:24:19] At one point they're joking

[00:24:22] May giving the professor amusing lines to say saying, you know the way kid or I'll stab you with this pencil

[00:24:27] It's so funny how that's just that you're seeing him in the day as

[00:24:31] Doing just that he's teaching. He's like teaching piano or something

[00:24:35] When you first see him and then getting ready to

[00:24:38] We assume he had we yeah, it's implied that he killed the dog

[00:24:43] Of this farmhouse that born in it is sad. Maybe he just tied the dog up somewhere. Okay

[00:24:50] Let's all imagine that I'm sorry. I'm at least it wasn't seen

[00:24:54] Lesser filmmaker would have shown an awful act

[00:24:58] But yeah, yeah Marie

[00:25:01] Warnering out the farmhouse. It was like her cousin or whatever and

[00:25:06] Okay, let's try to settle this so I don't know that there's an answer. I think that is an ex-boyfriend of hers

[00:25:11] The internet says it says her half brother. Well, it's not because we meet her brother in the third movie or the second

[00:25:17] She can have a half brother and

[00:25:20] Tell her backstory and she has a mother. Come on. It's not stated in the movie though

[00:25:26] I think who the guy in the first one is

[00:25:28] I think she does. I think she says

[00:25:31] Find me the dialogue and that will really ease my mind

[00:25:35] It's a guy. She knows it's a guy. She knows

[00:25:38] I I've seen it a bunch of times. I didn't get any romantic

[00:25:43] aspect to it

[00:25:44] I mean, it's a guy

[00:25:45] She once knew and to me that just felt like it was an ex-boyfriend because otherwise it would be like a

[00:25:50] Someone who used to be her friend

[00:25:51] But I don't think it's supposed to be a family member because they're specifically looking for a place where they won't be found

[00:25:57] So they don't want to go to a relatives house

[00:26:02] Anyways, this will just remain unsolved

[00:26:05] They're at they're at the guy's house. No, no, it says on the looka even is half brother to mary

[00:26:11] Okay

[00:26:12] I think I think maddie is uh

[00:26:15] Giveling with the internet consensus right and I the internet can say what it likes

[00:26:19] But I want someone to show me in the film where it says that is who he is. Maybe it's in the book

[00:26:24] I think it is maybe that's a good point. Although then we're gonna have to get into a debate about whether the book counts as canon for the movies

[00:26:32] What's that's not getting that's not what this episode I don't want to have this debate

[00:26:37] I'm sure it's in the commentary

[00:26:40] Talk about great. Oh, I'm maddie. I just want to talk about clivo and

[00:26:44] the

[00:26:45] subtlety the pathos of this character

[00:26:49] Unbelievable he builds so much in so little time

[00:26:52] And then for us to get his iconic lines his look at what they make you give which then born brings back in the third movie

[00:27:00] It was such an impactful line to born that he then says it to the assassin in the third movie

[00:27:06] I mean glorious stuff. Just

[00:27:09] Give what you take or something. Look at what they make you give look at what you

[00:27:13] Look at what they make you give

[00:27:15] That's true. Yeah, that's said by everfini's mentor

[00:27:21] character

[00:27:22] Is it

[00:27:23] I thought it was

[00:27:25] The assassin who is chasing born in the third movie that he doesn't kill

[00:27:29] Oh, this is another one. He's like blows the mind of by not killing them

[00:27:32] And so then on the roof at the end

[00:27:34] They come face to face and he's like, why didn't you kill me and born gives him the line

[00:27:38] Look at what they make you give and you're like, oh my god

[00:27:41] Yeah, and yeah the fact that when he meets born and he's injured

[00:27:46] The only thing he wants to do is connect with him and say do you get them so

[00:27:50] Siloed from each other and yeah, he's like another one of me. Do you get the headaches?

[00:27:55] I mean it's I get such good writing in the Treadstone TV show

[00:27:59] They explored a little more legacy briefly built on it as well as in this movie

[00:28:03] But like in the Treadstone show like they even kind of just give you an idea of like the day to day routine

[00:28:09] What are they doing in between working out and loading all their super guns that only training?

[00:28:14] Yeah, well, I know and breaks my heart. He breaks my heart

[00:28:17] He's so good. We're not supposed to like him, but we kind of feel sad because I absolutely like him

[00:28:22] He didn't have a chance

[00:28:23] That's what I think is also interesting

[00:28:25] It's all the assassin characters which is why born tries to not kill them when he can

[00:28:30] Are victims of the same thing as him right like they've all been taken in by this horrible system PTSD and starts remembering him

[00:28:39] You know shooting a victim in a chair, you know

[00:28:41] Yeah, yeah, they're no different than me

[00:28:44] And they were all exactly in the same situation and they have just been like broken down and brainwashed and turned into these killing machines

[00:28:53] And they are kept entirely on their own can't talk to each other and you just feel

[00:28:58] Like I what perfect casting Clive Owen was incredible

[00:29:01] The writing in that scene is so good

[00:29:03] And it's just like incredibly memorable for such a short little scene

[00:29:08] I really don't think he speaks more than five words or five lines in that scene and it's like

[00:29:13] Does that count the moment after he's like

[00:29:18] Sure, maybe six

[00:29:20] I gotta resist

[00:29:22] Can we talk about the other assassin yes, please

[00:29:25] Absolutely because there are two other assassins and the first one is so so the very first one

[00:29:30] He has a name who burst castle. I think

[00:29:33] Is what I wrote down. Yeah, castell or something. Yeah. Um

[00:29:37] um

[00:29:39] I mean, it's a great scene. It's a yes

[00:29:41] But the way the tension builds in the scene

[00:29:43] Born, you know getting his spidey sense that something's happening him walking through the apartment turning on the water grabbing the knife

[00:29:50] Marie dropping the knife. Yeah dropping the knife and then this guy just

[00:29:54] Bursts through the window

[00:29:56] And they have a very exciting fight, but when you think about it, you're like

[00:29:59] This was not subtle. Trent stone seems to be mostly

[00:30:03] Subtle the asker seems like he didn't get the whole suite of training

[00:30:08] Most of the confirmed kills that we know about from before the movie happened are like people who have made to look like

[00:30:14] They accidentally died or oh, yeah

[00:30:16] Suicide or something

[00:30:18] It's not just people bursting through windows with a machine gun. No, so true

[00:30:25] That's before we get to born meeting up with Marie and realizing we got to go on the run together

[00:30:29] And we see the morgue attendant with a bullet in her head and it's like, yeah

[00:30:33] All very suspicious and even though there's some serious work. You can only imagine what would a

[00:30:42] Procedural version of this would look like is like you said what?

[00:30:45] Yeah, let's go in in the cold case file

[00:30:49] I'm obsessed with that guy. What's that guy's hilarious?

[00:30:52] What's his deal? I mean, I do

[00:30:54] It's clearly not a usual situation to be to be fair to them right because they have now activated all of their agents in Europe

[00:31:02] To come kill this guy by any means necessary basically before John Wick was doing it

[00:31:07] They kind of were the precursors like you got it. You got a text confirmation go time. It's all cryptic. So by the way, can we

[00:31:14] Brief aside on the text the texts and to talk back about the tech the tech conversation

[00:31:20] It's like they've created an app on their phones that

[00:31:24] Just to notify the people in the Apple store

[00:31:27] They need to kill people when it feels to me like they could just get a text that says like a code word

[00:31:33] Something instead. It's like

[00:31:35] You know mission received

[00:31:38] Yeah

[00:31:40] Anyway

[00:31:43] Yeah, it is funny how that guy comes in guns blazing

[00:31:46] He has a giant s machine gun born checks it out of his arm, but then it's even funnier how

[00:31:51] Yeah, it's like

[00:31:53] It's a good establishment about all the heroes how Marie is going to get like a frying pan or

[00:31:58] A gun if it falls down, but then it's even funnier how

[00:32:02] Yeah, born this introduces him before he uses rolled up magazines

[00:32:08] I mean, it's a great fight scene. Oh, it is. They're all great fight scenes. But yes, it is a great fight scene

[00:32:13] I don't know. I complain about shaky camera movies. I don't know why

[00:32:16] I have glasses. I don't know why no one can see any of these fights. I see them just quite fine

[00:32:20] They look clear to me. I mean people don't complain as much in the first one as the cellular show

[00:32:25] Batman or something else, but this yeah, it's it's not too shaky for me

[00:32:30] I didn't I was prepared when rewatching the green grass movies to be like

[00:32:36] Oh, there's more shaky cam than I remembered, but it didn't it felt subtle enough to me. I feel like it's like a

[00:32:41] It's like a tony scott movie. I kind of find like man on fire or

[00:32:45] But yeah, I have no problems with it. Yeah, but so so true. Yeah, he's just bruson in there

[00:32:52] You think he's like a ninja and he's like what?

[00:32:55] We just got here

[00:32:56] But we do have to say

[00:32:58] Him losing the fight and jumping on the window is like a very important moment in that movie because it really sets the tone for like the type of people that are chasing them

[00:33:08] He's like a suicide bomber, but he's like no no way out mission will end with my own death

[00:33:15] And so then that really for marie in particular, but for both of them is like this is

[00:33:20] Weirder and more serious than I

[00:33:24] Were you expecting wolverine or

[00:33:27] All right, so most competent assassin

[00:33:29] I think we have to go with the last guy who kills chris kukber even though we love clivo and he does

[00:33:34] Well, he is the only one that makes it out alive in the first one. So

[00:33:38] I think it's manheim is what I've been fine found. Yeah these competent assassin

[00:33:44] The first

[00:33:46] In that car and you're like what?

[00:33:49] It might have been easier to kill the professor though if i'm being honest. He just sort of like

[00:33:54] You know shoots in the air and birds fly

[00:33:56] And to be fair the professor comes up against born man. I'm just

[00:34:01] chris kukber who was also incompetent so like the match exactly right fair

[00:34:07] That's true doesn't demonstrate great skill. It's just that he doesn't get killed

[00:34:13] No, no, I see where you guys are both coming on this. So like yes, he's guilty by association, but I do kind of like how

[00:34:20] uh

[00:34:23] How kelsey is hinting at is like manheim is kind of just smooth like he could fit into any situation

[00:34:29] And but at the same time. Yeah, he's basically killing his old boss. He's like bun by edge

[00:34:36] All he had to do is walk up to an old guy walking down the street and pull the trigger

[00:34:41] There was no hand-to-hand combat involved

[00:34:44] They do a rewrite and I forgot about this in the born conspiracy video game. Kelsey you're gonna love this

[00:34:49] He is the main antagonist

[00:34:51] Manhunt man hot. Yes

[00:34:53] I'm not kidding. Wow

[00:34:55] so

[00:34:56] And he does more than just

[00:35:00] Yeah, I have to assume it's in his bag of tricks

[00:35:04] He he know he's way more

[00:35:06] He looks kind of the same

[00:35:08] I'll actually send you the

[00:35:10] Wicca article on the born directory. Thank you wicca

[00:35:14] I used to do a lot of wiccans

[00:35:15] But yeah, he's the final boss and he is disarming you with your own weapons everything

[00:35:20] Blown up gas tanks in a church

[00:35:23] I mean, I will say I think that the first guy demonstrates the most like fighting skill of any of them. It's just that he you know

[00:35:30] Loses comes in hot. He loses big time. Yeah

[00:35:35] Loses big time and he comes in hot

[00:35:39] But they sort of decline in intensity right like the first one is this big

[00:35:44] Hand-to-hand combat scene and then the professor is more of an emotional hit than anything

[00:35:49] And then the final one is like, you know, no big deal

[00:35:53] It's just professional. Are we ranking the villains on who does the most emotional damage?

[00:35:58] I mean, there's no contest

[00:36:01] I mean, it's the professor by the long

[00:36:05] I didn't know this was a factor, but I like it. Um

[00:36:08] So taz at least I got to give him the car demolition derby that he does. I mean, he's in freaking new york

[00:36:15] This isn't ultimatum

[00:36:16] Yeah, we're skipping ahead

[00:36:18] Let's do supremacy. Okay. Well

[00:36:21] the caril

[00:36:22] We were gonna hate him anyway just because he killed a beloved, you know love interest and everything and carl urban

[00:36:28] On the other hand, he's carl urban. So I can't hate him

[00:36:31] Uh, so he I feel like there's three groups in supremacy. There's the cia guys

[00:36:37] There's the cia assassins and then there's the russians and the russians are different

[00:36:41] so yeah grutch cob uh played by carol rodin he guys might know from uh

[00:36:46] hellboy uh and blade two

[00:36:48] Yeah, uh, he's apparently an oil tycoon and I liked him. I just I forget that he's in because they're just so again avid kind of

[00:36:56] Stills the first half of the movie and then yeah, caril is yeah coming in

[00:37:01] Knockin out cops and you're like hey yomer floor the rings, you know dude from ritic and do what the hell

[00:37:08] I think if we're having a competence like a decision-making discussion, right?

[00:37:12] Sure, you have to you have to get at the critical question of should they have tried to frame born or just

[00:37:18] Leave him alone. Just leave him out there

[00:37:20] I was cool with that dumb and bad. I mean, yeah, I was cool with that because I mean

[00:37:25] It was out of it makes the movie. I'm killing him. Yeah

[00:37:29] Yeah, but it kind of made sense. They didn't know how serious it was at first

[00:37:32] But how could they I mean it's it's brian cox who sets him up like how do you not know how serious it is?

[00:37:39] I mean just look at it this way. They're

[00:37:42] They're still trying to cover up his mess

[00:37:45] And he's just linked to it. It's just gone. He's just under the radar ghosting. I know

[00:37:51] Not to them in years

[00:37:53] That's the problem. It's a mixture of both callous government people and bureaucrats

[00:37:58] So they're all just like hey, this makes us look bad. We better eliminate them instead of let them live

[00:38:03] retired

[00:38:05] It just feels I mean, I don't blame the russians because they don't know jason born from you know, anybody

[00:38:13] But like for brian cox to to dredge up jason born just feels

[00:38:18] They should have tried to frame one of the killed assassins like clivoin or something. Yeah, find someone who is actually already dead

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[00:40:06] Instead of planning to kill jason born and then not be able to do it

[00:40:10] Yeah

[00:40:12] This professor went crazy and he killed a couple out of farm and he blew it up. Yeah, that works out

[00:40:18] but yeah, um

[00:40:20] I think

[00:40:21] He and karil harlur been could have had him

[00:40:24] He he and the professor could have duped it out. Maybe even the other guy who you know pat who went

[00:40:31] uh, karil, but yeah, uh

[00:40:34] I just said it the wrong way

[00:40:36] But the guy at the hotel in the first one, but at the same time karil is kind of just better at

[00:40:41] I mean several times born has the police slow him down and he finds a way to just knock out like literally a swat team's worth

[00:40:49] Still their car so but yeah, I think he's fine

[00:40:53] But he's he's full of shit kind of he's full of himself. So I don't think he's as good as you're talking about karil

[00:41:00] Yeah, he's full of himself. That's an interesting. Yeah, because he's constantly grinning is like I got you now a little durable and he's like

[00:41:07] No, you don't got him

[00:41:09] In the scene where born ends up calling the cops and he gets

[00:41:12] Arrested when he's shooting him from the bridge. He does hit his shoulder. He doesn't he has a kill shot in

[00:41:19] He does but then he also

[00:41:23] It lets his guard down thinking he's gotten the job done. It's like, uh, you didn't kill your target

[00:41:29] well, yeah him not finding his body in

[00:41:33] In um, india where are they india in the beginning? Uh, that's his biggest problem

[00:41:38] That's the biggest mistake of karil, but I will say to be fair. He doesn't really know what jason born's whole deal is

[00:41:44] They never alert people

[00:41:47] There's a plot hole you would think they would have brewed them saying hey, you know extremely dangerous

[00:41:51] But this is what I think this is all comes back to brian cox. I think the second movie undercuts brian cox a lot

[00:41:57] Yes, he feels he's way dumber

[00:42:01] I mean

[00:42:03] When you're greedy and you got in the way with it, you're kind of probably let your fingers slip be butterfingers

[00:42:08] I just think I mean

[00:42:11] You've lived your whole life

[00:42:13] He's at the end of his career. He's gotten away with any number of horrible shit

[00:42:18] And he's still this bad at covering up his tracks. I mean come on

[00:42:22] Yeah, cox cox makes the critical

[00:42:24] You got cocky the critical error. He probably does not tell gret kov and karol like

[00:42:30] Seriously, just so you know the guy i'm sending you to kill is the hardest person to kill in the world

[00:42:35] dangerous

[00:42:38] And so

[00:42:41] It does all come back to cox

[00:42:43] He was killing a steven sigil type and you're like, no this guy works out. Yeah, well, and I find kirl interesting because

[00:42:51] In the scene where the cops come there's a little bit of like a reveal that he's russian secret service, right?

[00:42:56] And so because you don't he could have just been some mercenary whatever throughout

[00:43:01] Um, and then you're like, oh, okay russian secret service working off the books with this oil guy like I buy it

[00:43:08] um

[00:43:09] But then you do sort of wonder

[00:43:11] Because he's the first assassin that we've met who's not a treadstone operative like what is his training, right?

[00:43:16] What did have what have they done to him? It's not as good as trestle. It's not as good as trestle

[00:43:21] That is true. He by

[00:43:23] Being a third party who wasn't with trestle. Yeah, he's he's not as briefed up on him

[00:43:29] Yeah, so I feel a little bad for him. I think I mean

[00:43:32] Obviously, I have my own soft spot for carl urban. So just his presence. I find a

[00:43:37] Good performance. We're not I do think he's like, you know an interesting character. He's he's

[00:43:43] Presenting a challenge. He bucks born up way more than we've seen anybody else do

[00:43:50] Hold the hold that thought and he does he you know

[00:43:53] He thinks he did the job and then he just wants to have a month off and you're like, I got you man

[00:43:57] He just wants a month off at this drip club

[00:44:00] That's true. He's a good quarterback

[00:44:02] Anytime anything takes place in russia and someone's in a club and then they come out in the daylight. I'm obsessed

[00:44:08] It's such a good shot every time. Um

[00:44:12] But yeah, I think I think he's interesting and then he's yet another

[00:44:15] I really like the growing number of assassins that born could kill but leaves alive

[00:44:19] And then they are left to deal with the repercussions of like, why would he not kill me?

[00:44:24] By trying to my mind right now. No, no

[00:44:27] I

[00:44:28] Mean even with the journalists themselves. He's like, I thought you guys killed people. He's like, I'm not one of them

[00:44:32] but

[00:44:35] We should also talk about the other treadstone agent who is in this movie who he goes to talk to in germany

[00:44:42] I think his name is

[00:44:44] Oh, yeah, martin sokus and another lortherings guy. You've seen him as one of glader alice elf helpers

[00:44:50] um

[00:44:51] He's one of the aliens in star wars 2 and he's been in kingdom of heaven and

[00:44:57] Iron flugs and you saw him in the equalizer. He's the main russian guy who densil fights. Um,

[00:45:03] Yeah, no, he's a new zealand guy. So it's the kind of deal where you're like you pastor you do your job so well

[00:45:08] They went to new zealand to really hire out for this movie

[00:45:11] Uh, yeah, so he goes to talk to him to try to figure out why they're still after him

[00:45:16] He's like the one remaining treadstone agent which makes it seem like the guy from the last movie must have died, which is

[00:45:22] Yeah bummer for him. Yeah, allegedly

[00:45:25] And so they have a pretty good fight scene too, but he he

[00:45:28] He rocks. I mean the that's a great fight scene with the blinds and the

[00:45:34] handers have tied the zip tied hands the um, I just

[00:45:39] The second movie really

[00:45:41] Builds on the stuff from the first movie of the like close combat and grabbing whatever is at hand and yeah the the rolled up

[00:45:48] magazine is like

[00:45:53] We rerouted on our tv are like three different times. You're like, how did they film that scene?

[00:45:58] Yeah, but the two of them shoving each other against the blinds always kills me that

[00:46:02] Stands it's so visual bit of humor. Yeah, and that otherwise is pretty fight scene

[00:46:07] um

[00:46:08] I do have a strong sense memory too of when he finishes that fight and then he goes into the closet

[00:46:13] He's fiddling around. I'm like, what is he doing? And then he blows up the house with a toaster and

[00:46:19] Magazine and a toaster is genius and they do

[00:46:23] Yeah, the hedgeman blowing up I like the little

[00:46:27] The the turn in that scene where he's interrogating him

[00:46:31] And right, but he's interrogating him and then in the middle of the conversation the the guy is like

[00:46:37] I'm oh, you're not here to kill me like sorry

[00:46:41] And you get that did you call it in what happened and it amps it up?

[00:46:45] um

[00:46:45] But that's that's fun that he would just I I would assume he was here to kill me so

[00:46:51] Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry with Jason born around. He's very dangerous. No, that's that's true

[00:46:57] Is there too careful for their own good?

[00:47:00] Yeah, because if Matt if he hadn't that conversation could have just ended with born being like all right

[00:47:05] Thanks for the info. There you go. Bye. So um, I realized this time around

[00:47:10] I think that guy lives in a duplex. I felt really bad for his neighbor

[00:47:14] Yeah, keep it down. Hopefully they weren't home

[00:47:17] So fun fact they blew it back

[00:47:20] It would be worse if they were home

[00:47:22] So fun fact. You're absolutely fun fact. He's one of two assessors actually strangled born

[00:47:28] Yeah

[00:47:29] That's true the strangulation. Oh, you know when you know when you start to realize things are really going

[00:47:35] South for brian cox in this movie when he kills danie zorn and you're like you're out of his worst moment

[00:47:40] That's the worst thing the abbot does is kill danie zorn, especially when

[00:47:46] You're not gonna get away with it at this point like the fact that danie zorn has figured you out means you're screwed

[00:47:54] There's no getting away with it. I don't know how you think

[00:47:58] The killing danie zorn is going to be this meaningless kill. I just think the whole

[00:48:04] thing with him

[00:48:06] And how they try to frame jason born is just lazy and dumb and the stuff that they have born do is stuff that

[00:48:13] No treadstone operative whatever do he just happened to leave a fingerprint on the explosive device like

[00:48:19] They don't act like this

[00:48:20] It's so lazy and the fact that it takes as long as it does for the for people to start questioning it

[00:48:26] I think it's interesting

[00:48:29] Landy has a deep understanding of treadstone so she's you know learning as she's going

[00:48:35] Although landy is the one who's like I something doesn't feel right about this. Well, niki is also credulous

[00:48:41] From the beginning too. She's like this doesn't sound like

[00:48:44] Well, niki is the one who knows the most about them

[00:48:46] So she shows up and is like yeah that jason born would not do that

[00:48:49] He would not do that

[00:48:50] But ultimately it doesn't really matter because

[00:48:54] They know the truth, but they still want to silence him anyway because he knows too much

[00:48:57] Well cox knows the truth

[00:48:59] But they throw landy in the hen house here remember she hears part of niki's

[00:49:05] telephone chat

[00:49:09] niki's telephone when she can when she has the wire tap and she's trying to confront him

[00:49:14] Uh-huh, so they're like okay. He may not be behind it, but we still got to bring him in or kill him

[00:49:21] well, but yeah landy the whole time in the second one is starting to be like

[00:49:25] I don't trust the way that you're acting in this situation. It's very suspicious. So she is there to question everything. She becomes

[00:49:35] Pretty quickly like not much of an antagonist. Yeah, no, I'm cool with it. Joan Allen's a good actress

[00:49:41] And it's also the first time when jason's watching her from afar and she's like it's so good

[00:49:47] You look tired

[00:49:50] Yeah, I want niki I don't know like you should be able to she's standing right next to you

[00:49:56] It's funny hearing it on tv where it's like you people

[00:50:01] Oh the yes the uh the editing of some f bombs

[00:50:05] Oh, well, it's even wilder. I saw an mbc broadcast back in like the late 2010s and they actually they don't do what they do on cable

[00:50:12] They actually cut like to an outside when avid is shooting himself

[00:50:16] Like an outside you see an exterior shot in pamela screen. I'm like really

[00:50:22] I love the compilation videos of the funny substitutes. They do

[00:50:26] Oh, they're the best. It's not tv. Those are so good. Always the best yippie kaya. Mr. Falcon. Yes

[00:50:32] I mean that's the worst genius. Oh man. I mean my favorite one not to derail us is um

[00:50:38] big Lebowski

[00:50:40] When um junk goodman is smashing the car and he says in the edited version

[00:50:44] This is what happens when you meet a stranger in the alps

[00:50:48] Yes, oh my god

[00:50:51] You're like what?

[00:50:53] Is it just because it's random and that's why yeah, okay

[00:50:56] Trying to match up the mount to the this is what happens. They should have the like bad lip reading guys do it. Yeah

[00:51:04] That would be fun. So

[00:51:06] as

[00:51:07] Edgar Ramirez's character in ultimatum is basically

[00:51:11] Doing what krill does in supremacy where he gets into car chases, but I gotta hand it to dash like he

[00:51:19] But before nicky distracts him like he's given born a

[00:51:24] A bunch of trouble like he is jumping, you know with all this parkour

[00:51:28] That's just tough

[00:51:30] And like and nicky like grabs him like by his uh mouth and he's like flips around and then

[00:51:36] Looks her away. Nicky tries to get involved in that fight, but it doesn't last for long

[00:51:42] It's the first time we see born having to like ice his hands

[00:51:47] Well, I think he's looking at his hands because he's sad that he had to murder that guy

[00:51:51] That's the you know metaphorical blood on his hands

[00:51:55] It's very cold and I like how it's lit. You're like, I don't want to have you know, I you couldn't one of us

[00:52:01] The whole thing I mean the fight's really good. I think he's he that's when he's using the book to beat him up, right?

[00:52:07] Yes, the spine of the book and then he punches

[00:52:10] Because these connections but getting all those metal objects

[00:52:14] Yeah, well and and uh, then he uses a towel in the bathroom that he

[00:52:20] But that whole scene is so good because the the tan jeer rooftop chase is just like

[00:52:26] Incredibly well shot good and mouth stuff

[00:52:29] Borendo started a disadvantage because he gets a little blowed up at the beginning. He sure does

[00:52:34] What's remarkable to me is that

[00:52:36] If i'm recalling correctly, he's standing in between

[00:52:42] the

[00:52:43] Like he's in front of the car

[00:52:45] And the bomb is on the other side of him. Yes, and he doesn't die but the guy in the car dies

[00:52:51] It's like yeah, he really is remarkably tough this jitson

[00:52:56] You know he on instinct he turned his body in such a way that he survives because that's okay

[00:53:03] Can we go back one second to the last movie speaking of turning his body in such a way?

[00:53:06] I'm obsessed with the car crash. Maybe it's the third one now. I can't remember

[00:53:11] Oh when he grabs the seat when he grabs the seat. He's not bugging in yet

[00:53:15] That's that's when krill is fighting in yeah

[00:53:17] No, that's

[00:53:20] Well, he does that too but remember he also does it

[00:53:23] So he doesn't in both. Oh does he okay? There's a third one. That's how he gets krill in a trap and makes him collide

[00:53:30] Oh, okay. There's also he grabs the seat but when he drives off the roof because I love that moment

[00:53:36] Yeah

[00:53:38] There and uh, sir, he drove off the roof and stood there and just goes what?

[00:53:42] Oh, I don't think that's what i'm thinking of I think i'm thinking of

[00:53:46] There's a like a little parallel moment in the third movie when he's stolen the cop car and they're chasing him

[00:53:52] And he the car gets sideways it goes up over that barrier which reminds me of how krill gets driven into the barrier

[00:53:59] That's after that's I can never remember if that's before or after the roof

[00:54:03] Is that when he grabs the seat belt or is the seat belt? I think it has when he grabs the seat belt

[00:54:07] Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

[00:54:09] All right. Well, anyway, there's a car driving off the roof is amazing too

[00:54:12] Uh, sir, he drove off the roof

[00:54:15] What?

[00:54:16] That's worth there

[00:54:17] In fact, I was never prepared for anything that Jason does. I'll tell they but uh dash

[00:54:23] There's probably not a rated actor. I would like to see more of him

[00:54:26] He's great. You guys might have seen him. He's really scary

[00:54:28] He was one of the ninjas and batman begins

[00:54:30] He was in one of the mission possibles you might have seen him in the old guard with charlie steran and

[00:54:36] Does he

[00:54:37] Speak

[00:54:38] Yeah, what does he say? I don't even remember dash talking. He's in snow white in the huntsman

[00:54:44] No, not just the actor speak does dash speak in the third movie. I don't feel like he has any lies

[00:54:50] I thought he said something in foreign tongue, but I don't know

[00:54:54] He's but I do think he's primarily a stunt performer

[00:54:57] He's he's in a john kusak spy movie and he's done some street fighter fan films

[00:55:02] But yeah, he's a stuntman actor

[00:55:04] He has a lot of lines if you know

[00:55:07] He just gets his uh pop-up app alerts about the people that he's supposed to let's see

[00:55:13] Dash he executes and he executes except that he doesn't because he doesn't kill well

[00:55:18] No, but he did kill the guy. He the one guy. He was supposed to kill. Yeah, he did

[00:55:21] Yeah, but he didn't kill jason or julia styles

[00:55:26] I mean, so he's one for three

[00:55:29] He has a demo reel and I he definitely talked to matt but yeah, uh

[00:55:34] You can't win them all but no

[00:55:38] At least he looked like he belonged

[00:55:40] He looks great. Oh, no, he doesn't he does a really good job. I have no complaints about dash

[00:55:44] I just as I got through it. I was like, I don't know if he has spoken

[00:55:48] I might not have had any lines in the film, but that's okay. He doesn't need them

[00:55:52] He's doing it all with his performance. Their lines are unnecessary

[00:55:57] Um, but yeah, dash is really good. Um, it's better than the other lines where they go

[00:56:02] Jesus christ, it's jason. That's true. They never add in like your traditional action movie dialogue from the fights in these movies

[00:56:10] I was so excited when we got to that part where strutheran says the immortal life

[00:56:15] Jesus immortal line. Jesus christ. That's jason born and you now are able to take it serious versus other ones

[00:56:21] Where you're like, they're all very good actors

[00:56:24] I know

[00:56:25] My younger brother and his friends in college would say that all like if anyone ever said jesus christ

[00:56:31] Someone would come in and say that's jason born

[00:56:34] Our seven was a cool year. It's the same year as this is sparta and john mclean just killed a helicopter with a car

[00:56:41] Oh, yeah

[00:56:42] What a year. Jesus christ. That's jason born

[00:56:47] I mean you'd be you'd be nervous too

[00:56:50] Find them stall and kill them. Um, if you if you knew it was good for you, you would just run to the other direction

[00:56:55] Oh

[00:56:58] But they we never talked about I do want to talk a little bit about the um waterloo

[00:57:04] Seen

[00:57:05] And just just to call it out because it's so incredibly well done and we do have another one of our our assassins

[00:57:11] They're trying to shoot them

[00:57:13] And that that is probably my favorite of where he's fighting multiple people all at the same time because they're like there's five

[00:57:19] Like cia guys are coming

[00:57:20] Yeah, when he huddles him into the like hallway behind one of the stores

[00:57:24] I'll go after him kind of like a forlorn niece him is doing it

[00:57:27] Is like he's doing like a crop maga take and he hits those guys with their own guns

[00:57:32] He hides them up there and then he's like he hits two

[00:57:36] He hits one guy and rams him into two other guys knocking them out. I'm like, that's great

[00:57:40] And that's the scene where where strutheran sees him and says jesus christ

[00:57:45] Because yeah, he at the end of it. He just looks up directly into the camera and it's like, oh no you guys have problems

[00:57:51] You're on candy camera

[00:57:54] That whole scene plays out though because he's just taking people out and they can't figure out why their agents keep disappearing

[00:58:00] Yeah, they're like what happened that is some good editing. We've lost the first guy

[00:58:04] Okay, well, we've lost a couple more guys like what's what's going on down there and then when he reveals himself

[00:58:09] They're like, oh

[00:58:11] No, so it's so true because like it was cool seeing them dispatch the embassy guards and you know

[00:58:16] Uh off-duty cops, but you know and seeing them escape an entire swat team before they even get to the house

[00:58:22] And blow some other guys out. But yeah

[00:58:25] Here like you say he's actually out in the open and you're seeing all the dots on the screen

[00:58:30] Yeah, well, it's just I mean it's

[00:58:33] All like this beautiful ballet right the choreography of that scene is so interesting and the way he's trying to direct him around

[00:58:40] The cameras and he's picking out the different assets and just like very

[00:58:46] Quietly and subtly dispatching them like the guy that he hits with his own

[00:58:51] Like the drug needle that he was gonna use on the journalist that he just sits down on a bench

[00:58:57] Sit on right down there. Yeah. Yeah, that that was true is like and no one and of course

[00:59:03] It is easy to not notice that in a airport. You think it's so crowded

[00:59:06] No one's paying attention. It's a train station. It's like the biggest biggest train station in London

[00:59:11] He's a drug dealer with a headset, right?

[00:59:13] Yeah, I mean it's just so good and it's devastating to me when the journalist freaks out and disobeys him

[00:59:20] Because you're just like, yeah, he's the lee roy jinkins of the team. I love you patty constantly

[00:59:25] Yeah patty

[00:59:26] He was really seeing you through patty. You got it just

[00:59:29] I can't remember you

[00:59:31] He panicked and that's actually he really panicked much like you see more of nicky in this one

[00:59:36] I do like how you see more of born's like he actually wants to actually

[00:59:41] You know honor the guy but he can't without getting caught so he's like, uh

[00:59:45] He's gonna all you can do is go take his journal and get the hell out of there

[00:59:49] I was surprised about blood they got away with in that and that's where it kind of opened up my mind

[00:59:53] Is like so just like this in lower the rings they kind of cut away before it gets too violent

[00:59:58] Well, then you saw other stuff like shooter and had to have you as like oh well, that's

[01:00:02] The blood's there is pure red. So that's why I got the

[01:00:07] That much blood in these movies really you see it in the it's occasional

[01:00:14] I mean it's not like watching something from the 50s where somebody gets shot and there's no blood at all

[01:00:19] He has oh my goodness

[01:00:21] Yeah, there's not very explosive squibs in the sun. Uh, yeah, that's sure it's not peck and paw

[01:00:29] But uh, it's not what chassis level

[01:00:32] Waterlucine I just think is so so good and it gives you a little something that you haven't seen in the first two movies

[01:00:38] Right to watch him choreograph it. Are you convinced that Jason board could infiltrate the matrix faster than neil?

[01:00:46] Am I convinced

[01:00:49] I feel like what do you mean?

[01:00:50] It took a while to become a jesus christ savior and here

[01:00:54] He's on he's on all downloaded with all the information. I know

[01:00:57] I still took them free movies to check out his journey is just about like

[01:01:02] I'm convinced born can plug in there and he would know where to go

[01:01:06] I don't think neil's thing is about having these fighting skills. Here's the question

[01:01:11] Is there a map that jason could get a hold of because if jason can get a map then yes

[01:01:16] But if you see the map to the matrix like this is not a good place to go

[01:01:23] The man loves to reference some maps are so good. Oh, we didn't talk about it

[01:01:26] So from the second movie but one of my favorite moments in any of them

[01:01:30] This one he has been shot and he goes into the grocery store and he picks up a map and some socks and some vodka

[01:01:36] And you know, like the weirdest shopping list i've ever seen

[01:01:40] And he really he amuses all of them immediately, but the yeah the checking the maps is good

[01:01:44] I just feel like and he's I got the other guy saying just sew this up not here to kill you

[01:01:51] All right, we need to do it now before these other cops who are

[01:01:55] Nargs are looking to come in here and arrest me

[01:01:58] And i'll be gone in five seconds. Yeah, if you just remove the bullet and stitch me

[01:02:04] I just think that

[01:02:07] Neo just needed to learn to like be the matrix, you know, it's not about learning

[01:02:12] That's what i don't think that's jason born skill though

[01:02:18] He literally is almost the term he like scans the whole thing. He's like, I know what I need to do

[01:02:24] If he has a map then

[01:02:26] A map makes it go faster but he can like there's a map to the matrix. He always gets a map

[01:02:31] I just think he'd be I just think he'd be faster than the actual agents because he really is lightning

[01:02:36] Well, if that's the question if jason born was sent into the matrix to kill neo would he win and the answer is yes

[01:02:42] Oh, but i'm thinking he would also kill all the agents like punch them so hard to where they can't respawn

[01:02:49] But it's hard to punch computer code that hard, you know, I don't know

[01:02:53] I think this is equivalent of winning a chess game with the computer like he is

[01:02:57] He doesn't need to know what love is a shame. We'll never know what the world needs a predator vs zalion version

[01:03:04] Of jason born in the matrix. I'm gonna write the dynamite and I only mean jason born versus john wick is

[01:03:10] I would see that I would love to see that

[01:03:13] If you want to why would the two fight each other neither of them wants to be an assassin

[01:03:18] Uh, let's just say he they're forced to do a tournament against each other like people will die if they don't fight each other

[01:03:23] Let's just something like that. I think they'll figure out a way to dismantle the system

[01:03:27] But they could do that too

[01:03:29] And go off together and adopt another dog. They could get another dog for a man

[01:03:35] Exactly if that there you go

[01:03:37] If you do want a fun versus match podcast check out the who would win show

[01:03:41] They'll give you very amusing trivia and versus outcomes. They just did one with born and jack bower

[01:03:47] so

[01:03:49] Because I love both characters

[01:03:52] Spy versus spy exactly. Yeah

[01:03:55] Okay, um

[01:03:57] So the third movie we've done the first the guys trying to kill him

[01:04:01] Yeah, it was cool that you saw the thing with the professor, uh, but who reigned supreme in ultimatum because

[01:04:07] Again, the guys wait, I do want to say I think the most evil character in ultimatum is someone we haven't mentioned yet

[01:04:12] And then Dr. Albert Hirsch. Oh, yeah, Albert finney. He sucks. Yes

[01:04:16] Very unimentioned. Yeah, because he's the one running at all

[01:04:20] He's the most evil guy. He's a doctor who used his skills to just torment and torture people

[01:04:27] Absolutely

[01:04:28] Reason follow his hypocrite. Oh, no

[01:04:31] He is anti-hypocratic oath and everything he did is so awful. There's an actual doctor in dels with his name

[01:04:39] Doctor in what there's an actual doctor with that same name in delis. Oh with albert hersch

[01:04:45] His name

[01:04:47] I'm not going to your office. All right

[01:04:51] Nothing personal

[01:04:52] Yeah, to me it's like everybody else is just either some dumb

[01:04:57] You know government job person or some like greedy

[01:05:01] bureaucrat type and he is actively evil

[01:05:04] Like why would you decide to do this program to take these poor people and torture them so much that they

[01:05:11] Forget who they are

[01:05:13] Oh, yeah, the whole way through

[01:05:15] He just blames jason the whole time. He's like you signed up for it. You remember you signed up for it, right? It's like

[01:05:21] Didn't understand what he was signing up for

[01:05:24] You'll love this. You'll love this. My father was watching one of those on our last airplane

[01:05:31] trip and

[01:05:33] He was watching one of them just well, well he got up from a nap and he's like so, uh

[01:05:39] What's the one born movie where he confronts the bad guy and I'm like you gotta give me way more

[01:05:43] He confronts a lot of bad guys to be fair

[01:05:45] I'm finally

[01:05:47] This is game. There's a guy he's got glasses and born's got a gun to say okay. Okay. Okay. Albert you're talking about the main main main big cheese

[01:05:56] Yeah, I'm getting his memory back

[01:05:58] But it took a minute. I'm like you gotta give me more than that. Yeah, tell me who it was

[01:06:04] Yeah, he's the closest to like a true mastermind. My mom does this with the cop shows

[01:06:09] He's like what's that one with that beautiful blonde detective? I'm like

[01:06:13] Yeah, that works all day

[01:06:17] But yeah, that guy that guy is the most evil

[01:06:20] Yeah, of all of them

[01:06:22] He but like you say he has no remorse. He has no regret but doesn't feel bad at all

[01:06:28] but then

[01:06:30] in fact, I always like the joke that

[01:06:33] Abbot is actually, uh

[01:06:36] Uh wolverines creator

[01:06:38] He's right here, but in a way very similar

[01:06:41] He's very Albert is definitely closer to the X-men guys where he's like he's not even about the greater good

[01:06:47] He's all like it's gotta happen and it's gotta be he's like a kind of a mad scientist

[01:06:51] Right, like you've had an idea and then wondered if he could do it. Why?

[01:06:55] Just to see if I could

[01:06:58] He could and he could

[01:07:01] Well, I don't know. It wasn't a perfect science because it eventually didn't work on born

[01:07:06] It's true

[01:07:09] I don't know how well it was working on clivo any there. Oh, he gets such bad headaches. He gets such bad headaches

[01:07:16] Look at what they make you give. Um, I don't feel like we've talked enough about strotherans incompetence. Yes, please

[01:07:21] Let's talk about novosan because he's so dumb. He gets the great lines. He's so full of shit and he's

[01:07:29] I love he just seems to he's he didn't secure

[01:07:33] You know when you yell and raise your voice that doesn't make people respect you

[01:07:38] Especially not when you are running this task force and then Pamela landi walks in and within 30 seconds

[01:07:44] It's like everything you guys are doing is dumb and bad and here's how we're gonna do it better

[01:07:48] Come on people. This is Jason Bourne

[01:07:53] Um, I also I mean the scene where he gets Pam to go to that one location and strotheran makes all his men follow her

[01:08:02] He's like everybody leave the CIA headquarters

[01:08:05] All of us out and then he gets the phone call from Jason and then he's like, well, maybe maybe you could come in and we could chat

[01:08:11] And he's like, where are you right now? I'm in my office

[01:08:14] I don't think so. Well, why not?

[01:08:16] Because if you were we'd be having this conversation face to face

[01:08:19] It would have been more badass had someone walked in and born just froze them out the window

[01:08:24] Now I've been even more awesome

[01:08:26] I just think I know that

[01:08:28] People as much as possible

[01:08:31] I can't I can't help it

[01:08:34] What drives me crazy though is he has that conversation with Bourne and then he calls his second hand like it's right here man

[01:08:40] And he's like go check my office and I'm like, what if Bourne had still been in there?

[01:08:44] Yeah, what are you gonna do?

[01:08:47] They he brings a few guns, but yeah, it is kind of like yeah. Well, what do you think's gonna happen?

[01:08:53] But that's just how

[01:08:55] That's what I like about these movies. It just just shows you how mindless all these drones of the so-called government people are

[01:09:01] I think they've been taught a certain way. They're supposed to act. They have a protocol. I don't question it

[01:09:06] The protocol doesn't work for Jason Bourne

[01:09:11] Bourne also pulls this classic trick of calling the cops so that yeah

[01:09:15] People following him will get way late in this one and I love when he's with nicky and he calls the Spanish police

[01:09:22] And he's like it's so good. I hear people there's Americans shoots three times and it's just like, okay. Come on. Yeah

[01:09:28] So much

[01:09:29] We gotta get out of here. Um, let's go. Let's go

[01:09:34] Nikki and Pamela are broves. Yeah, they're not antagonists even. Um

[01:09:40] I mean, I do kind of want to talk a little bit about nicky

[01:09:43] Just because I feel like she goes on a real journey from the first episode or the first movie in the first movie

[01:09:47] I feel like she is so dumb and incompetent everything she does

[01:09:52] It's just so dumb and like when Jason at the end is infiltrating their offices and all the their alarms start glowing

[01:09:58] And she's like has no idea what's happening and then way too late. It's like, oh, is it Jason Bourne?

[01:10:04] The living room alarm is going off the dining room alarm is going off this alarm's going off

[01:10:08] What what's happening and you're like, what's been happening? Nikki for the whole movie. What are we all doing here, Nikki?

[01:10:15] What do you think is happening?

[01:10:17] So yeah in the first movie you're like, wow

[01:10:19] She's very bad at her job and then you move along

[01:10:22] Into the second one when she's really freaked out, but she mostly handles handles herself pretty well when Bourne takes her into custody, I think

[01:10:31] Um

[01:10:32] And then in the third one all of a sudden it's like, oh wait, she's in love with him or something like

[01:10:37] like wow

[01:10:39] Seriously in love with him real

[01:10:42] A revelation who saw this coming when she has to tell him it's difficult with with you

[01:10:49] The fuck I love how Jason

[01:10:52] No response at all to any of it

[01:10:55] I'm not dealing with this. I don't care to have a conversation about it

[01:10:59] I love that they give you the specific

[01:11:02] Contrast of watching her cut and dye her own hair and him in the other rooms

[01:11:06] She's like

[01:11:07] I want no part of this the last time I cut and dyed a woman's hair. I fell in love with her and then she was murdered so

[01:11:13] We're not doing that anymore

[01:11:14] She does not do as good of a job on her haircut as Jason has on Marie's haircut

[01:11:19] She hasn't been through the trendstone program which involves hairdressing as uh, I mean it probably does for disguises and stuff

[01:11:26] Yeah, you're right

[01:11:28] He does a great job

[01:11:30] He probably doesn't know how to apply like a lace front like

[01:11:34] Yes, I'm sure he did

[01:11:35] Nine yards. I'm absolutely sure he did but yeah

[01:11:38] I always love the haircut he gives Marie because he starts just hacking it off

[01:11:41] You're like, oh, this isn't gonna be good and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, that's a really nice haircut

[01:11:46] It's great. Yep Jason. So yeah, uh, I think I think if we're I think no of osan might be the overall most

[01:11:54] incompetent

[01:11:55] Agent we see especially for what a high level he is. He is the deputy director of the CIA and he is dumb as a rock

[01:12:01] That's pretty remarkable

[01:12:03] So, bosson

[01:12:05] Yeah, listen bossa. I think he I think he's more incompetent than cooper

[01:12:10] I don't think cooper is that incompetent

[01:12:13] The cooper is dealing with a tough situation because all of their missions have always gone flawlessly

[01:12:18] And you they really are coming out. Someone had to be the fog guy

[01:12:21] well and and

[01:12:23] They have no idea what's happening like we know a lot more than them about what's happening

[01:12:27] He's just they think he's dead and all of a sudden they find out he's not dead

[01:12:31] But they don't know anything about the amnesia. So you're sort of like this is a lot to deal with

[01:12:35] This situation

[01:12:37] True whereas bosson has so much information

[01:12:40] Jesus Christ that's Jason Bourne acts like a complete idiot

[01:12:44] Yeah, the whole way through

[01:12:48] I love landi just

[01:12:50] Owning him constantly it brings me a great amount of joy

[01:12:54] And then when at the end when she's like you're gonna need to get yourself a good lawyer

[01:12:58] So sassy get him Pam

[01:13:01] Most confident villain albert finney. Yeah, and most evil

[01:13:07] And most lovely assassin is sweet little the professor

[01:13:14] He's the best

[01:13:15] He's the best that I mean what a performance from cli-bone so memorable second favorite assassin

[01:13:23] Carl urban, but yes, but just because he's carl urban

[01:13:30] The other ones don't have I mean a lot of them are competent not a ton of them have that much character, you know

[01:13:35] Yeah, fair enough. I dug how ed norton joined the cast and it's like hey

[01:13:40] He's a u.s. Air force. He actually trained the other guy and he actually got away with everything

[01:13:44] I like ed norton

[01:13:46] I'll just give credit that dewey and the final one

[01:13:52] Wasn't a retread of the fugitive for tom oley jones. He's like, yeah, no, he's just a crooked tom oley jones can do other things

[01:14:00] I know but he's done so many movies where he's chasing someone improving their

[01:14:05] Tom oley jones often plays tom oley jones to be fair

[01:14:10] Oh, but it's interesting how dewey is technically in charge of all those guys including that doctor that they reveal

[01:14:17] Yeah, it as soon as you think you've gotten to the top of the corruption it goes higher, you know

[01:14:24] But he's in charge of all the odds and he's using schulzimeda to frame them

[01:14:28] But also bring him out on the open where he knows he'll be

[01:14:33] Yep

[01:14:35] The rock goes all the way down and he also got to shout born. He also got to shout born shoot. Sorry. Oh shoot

[01:14:43] Oh

[01:14:46] Poor born

[01:14:48] I wish you didn't have to get shot so much

[01:14:51] I wish he could have continued to live in india with murray for him. It was just tuesday the dream. Yeah

[01:14:58] Yeah, that would have been the dream

[01:15:00] support guy

[01:15:02] He's damn sniper

[01:15:04] I mean, I do feel like at least keral wasn't trying to kill her, you know, it was an accident

[01:15:11] It was

[01:15:13] But I'll

[01:15:16] I mean, she probably would have died anyway. He was shooting jason while

[01:15:20] They were driving a high speed. Yeah, but you know

[01:15:24] Mistakes were made

[01:15:26] Yeah, the biggest mistake was not waiting for the body all the people who

[01:15:30] Think they've killed jason born and don't check like dash also thinks jason has blown up and doesn't go over to check his body

[01:15:35] And you're like, what are we doing here people?

[01:15:39] You can't just assume he's dead

[01:15:41] Oh, but they did

[01:15:43] They always do

[01:15:45] Oh

[01:15:46] I'm gonna give a shout out to larks free. He tries to cure all erin cross and martha in the philippines

[01:15:53] That actor's been in better stuff like predators in the final season jack ryan though, but

[01:15:57] Oh

[01:15:58] I just applaud how by that point every super assassin can jump from motorcycle to motorcycle like a freaking matrix agent

[01:16:05] It's like

[01:16:06] Hell, yeah

[01:16:09] Brand theft auto baby

[01:16:12] I

[01:16:14] once talked to a guy

[01:16:16] who did a lot of

[01:16:18] Voice acting in born old tomato

[01:16:19] I think his voice is heard during the nightclub scene that we mentioned earlier and he unfortunately passed away from cancer, but

[01:16:25] Oh

[01:16:26] That's sad. It was a great nightclub scene though. Yeah, and

[01:16:30] He was one of those he just did a lot of voiceovers for various russian movies and

[01:16:35] Didn't make sure of tv and b movies

[01:16:38] Yeah, I will say carl urban. I feel like makes a convincing russian

[01:16:44] Someone who doesn't speak russian sounds great to me sounds good to me

[01:16:49] I feel like

[01:16:53] You do your bad Arnold schwarzberger

[01:16:57] But then you gotta

[01:16:59] Then you got to lean back on it a bit and have it be more

[01:17:01] But hey, yeah, so yeah, it's Hans Gruber as played by Arnold with a little he's german

[01:17:06] Yeah, you've listed everything other than rush

[01:17:09] Well, I how do you do russian is my point?

[01:17:13] It's Arnold schwarzberger and hans gruber quite clearly then you got to clear your throat

[01:17:19] Uh, I think he does a good job

[01:17:21] for an

[01:17:22] Notoriously not russian person

[01:17:24] Again sounded perfect to me. I'm sure the other russian guys are just as bad as maga where they're coming up to

[01:17:30] You look on jobs

[01:17:32] Yeah, probably

[01:17:34] Let's hope not. I hope they're not as bad as we are here. Um

[01:17:39] Who knows

[01:17:41] We're not going there any time. We don't need to have a conversation about the russian attitude about actors taking their jobs

[01:17:49] I don't have anything to offer. Yeah

[01:17:52] It doesn't matter guys. Goodbye. Um

[01:17:56] So where can we find

[01:17:58] Maddie and Kelsey's lovely show on the interwebs. You guys are on pod beans spotify

[01:18:02] Yeah, we're pretty much everywhere you can find podcasts our podcast is called the oscars got it wrong

[01:18:08] And uh, we have an episode out every other friday

[01:18:12] At six o'clock eastern if people care, um, but yes, it's everywhere. It's on spotify and apple and

[01:18:19] Wherever else you normally listen

[01:18:24] perfect

[01:18:26] And what's been the most I mean you've talked about some other heated topics

[01:18:30] What's been the hardest to like get a ruling on we're just like I feel like

[01:18:35] Well, the fact that we have no judge is an issue for getting rulings. No, no

[01:18:39] I have to just come to an agreement. I just mean your final say where you're just like, I

[01:18:44] Feel like this is good our most controversial

[01:18:47] Opinions Kelsey. I mean, I feel like I have a lot of controversial

[01:18:51] There's a lot of great quote-unquote great movies that I don't particularly enjoy. I think

[01:18:56] Not to give away the twist but our

[01:18:59] 1997 titanic conversation

[01:19:01] Took some twists and turns

[01:19:03] Mm-hmm. Um, I mean it was in competition with speed two and it wasn't even on the ballot

[01:19:09] That was the real problem

[01:19:13] What a shame to be fair that one

[01:19:15] Arrasing down for a worst onscreen couple William Defoe and a boat

[01:19:19] Yeah

[01:19:20] We've had some really competitive years 75 and 76 were super

[01:19:25] competitive

[01:19:27] But I mean mostly we liked all the movies so that doesn't really feel that

[01:19:32] controversial. Yeah

[01:19:36] Yeah, I think I think there's some

[01:19:38] Generally well regarded movies that both Maddie and I don't like so those yeah, that's true. I would say westerns

[01:19:45] Well, we do struggle with westerns

[01:19:48] a lot of us

[01:19:50] Movies follow a western structure, but like you say it is the tired. Okay outlaws come into town rape everybody and one

[01:19:57] Yeah, some of the tropes just not like stop

[01:20:01] Don't feel particularly fresh

[01:20:03] Oh, man, I will say uh probably our biggest twist ending we've ever had was from the 2002

[01:20:10] Uh the 2003 academy awards for the films of 2002. Yeah

[01:20:15] that that's kind of the start of where

[01:20:17] Not no one can share the pie and you're like, oh good grief. There you can't tell me there's only free good movies getting everything

[01:20:25] There's a lot of good movies out there. There's so many of them that I thought you know won our direction or costumes

[01:20:31] like nope ignored

[01:20:34] We also had a surprising year when we did the 64 awards or the films of 63 where

[01:20:41] The film we ended up thinking was should have won. We weren't even going to watch except we had a guest on that episode who suggested it so

[01:20:51] And then we loved it

[01:20:53] That was a surprise

[01:20:55] Oh, it's true. It's it's very hard when there's that much hype

[01:20:59] And so much time has passed you don't know how much of it was people were in a different headspace

[01:21:05] Yeah, and it's gonna be generic

[01:21:08] It's interesting to to rewatch stuff that has lived on in the public

[01:21:13] Imagination right things that are very

[01:21:16] Still talked about to this day and some of them you watch and you're like, well, I guess it's a product of its era

[01:21:21] I'm not a huge fan of that and some of them you watch and you're like that lives up to all the hype and more

[01:21:26] Like how could that movie possibly be as good as everyone says it is and yet

[01:21:30] Some of them are it's hard though

[01:21:33] Pleasant surprise

[01:21:35] Oh, it's hard though when some of them are visionaries but they treat their actors like shit. So he's like

[01:21:40] Well, yes, we're talking about people being bad. There are many of those

[01:21:44] It's like Bernardo Burt to Lucy you're a genius, but man your piece of shit

[01:21:48] Uh, Polanski, you know, you started great movies one of my top filmmakers, but man he's a pig

[01:21:56] Yeah, it's tough

[01:21:59] Um

[01:22:01] What would you say are some of the biggest upsets of recent?

[01:22:03] Yeah, I mean we had it with the golden loaves where it's like only like the bear and succession what everything and

[01:22:09] Barry and Birkel said yeah, I wouldn't say that's an upset. I guess because I feel like there's many like recent years

[01:22:17] I just mean that they didn't split it like they just gave everything to one or the other

[01:22:22] Like well, I feel like

[01:22:25] That's always what happens though, especially at tv awards. They'll pick a drama that they like in a comedy

[01:22:31] Is it like

[01:22:34] It's easy, right? That's the easiest way to get that award. It's not a surprise

[01:22:42] Split the pie

[01:22:45] That requires a lot of effort

[01:22:48] Well, then don't do the work show

[01:22:50] But if they didn't do the award show, they wouldn't all be able to get together and fancy clothes and celebrate themselves on tv

[01:22:57] and get

[01:22:58] swag bags worth hundreds of thousands of dollars

[01:23:01] Think of the swag bags exactly. They need those. They need those

[01:23:06] um

[01:23:08] I feel like I mean we've done this year's Oscars in last year's Oscars and I didn't feel like

[01:23:14] They were super

[01:23:15] controversial

[01:23:17] hmm

[01:23:19] Not good good

[01:23:21] I mean, yeah, um, you know opinions differ on all things of course obviously but

[01:23:27] uh

[01:23:28] No, I think with this year too like there were only a couple of awards that were people even felt were still in contention

[01:23:34] By the time we got to Oscars night

[01:23:36] um everything kind of went as predicted

[01:23:39] um

[01:23:42] Which you know, that's fine

[01:23:44] That's cool. I will say it's 2022

[01:23:47] Uh, all quiet on the western front one more than I was thinking they were going to that was

[01:23:53] That was surprising

[01:23:55] kind of all quiet on the western front

[01:23:59] And

[01:24:00] I think poor things ended up winning more things than I thought this year

[01:24:05] Mm-hmm. So

[01:24:06] There's always some surprises

[01:24:08] There you know room on the margins for things to be different but

[01:24:13] But no we haven't done

[01:24:15] I think the most recent year we've done other than the last two is probably 2014

[01:24:22] Yeah

[01:24:24] That seems right to me, which is not that recent really no it's 10 years ago. We did think the oscar's got it wrong that year so

[01:24:32] I don't even remember that year so that's a spoiler. I think it was the bird man year. That was the bird man year, right?

[01:24:38] Yeah, yeah

[01:24:41] There was some good stuff

[01:24:43] There's always a mixed bag, you know

[01:24:46] Yeah, I think that was the last award show I watched all the way through. Yeah, I think we have found

[01:24:52] Well, we have found we've said they've gotten it wrong good amount of times

[01:24:56] But I do think we often find that the nominees are wronger

[01:25:00] Then exactly

[01:25:02] Than the winner you mean. Yeah, you're like at 95 and there's a lot of movies getting best actors

[01:25:06] And you're like, but why is that movie not getting best picture? Well 95? They only had five spots to give

[01:25:13] a

[01:25:17] Tough stuff

[01:25:19] It's all studio beds. So what do I know?

[01:25:23] You know hard to take it

[01:25:25] It's hard to take it any of it too seriously. We're just here to watch the movies and have some fun to talk about them, you know

[01:25:32] Can't complain

[01:25:34] And get more opinions

[01:25:37] Yes, we're just accumulating opinions

[01:25:40] It's a lot of fun. Yeah, any guests that are upcoming?

[01:25:45] Any what if that are any more guests that are

[01:25:50] No, nobody on the schedule

[01:25:54] Um

[01:25:56] What can we tease that's upcoming? We're working on

[01:25:59] 2016 right now which had a pretty controversial

[01:26:03] Oscars ceremony at the very least. Oh, that's true

[01:26:07] That's the uh, I mean that probably won't be relevant by the time this comes out

[01:26:11] Can we can we talk about our our 80s and 90s? Oh, yeah, let's let's talk about that. That's gonna be fun. Um, so

[01:26:20] As we said, we like to add in genre pictures as we um are going through the years that maybe weren't honored

[01:26:28] And we were looking at the nominees across like the 1980s and there's so many good like comedies action movies

[01:26:36] Sci-fi movies in the 80s not of which get nominated

[01:26:39] And so we've decided that for both the 80s and the 90s. We are going to do a companion

[01:26:46] Fun episode

[01:26:49] The fun Oscars instead of just adding in a couple films

[01:26:53] We're gonna watch like a suite

[01:26:55] of fun films

[01:26:57] From a given year and then bring our winners from that episode into our actual Oscars

[01:27:04] Because I think for some of the years there's like

[01:27:06] We have to figure out how we're going to do this because we haven't quite figured it out

[01:27:09] But for some of the years we we walked through what came out that year and there's like 15 just

[01:27:15] classics

[01:27:16] Like classic action sci-fi would have you films that are so fun

[01:27:22] Would never get play at the Oscars, but like we want to talk about them. I

[01:27:27] We did we did

[01:27:29] What was it 89?

[01:27:31] And I love the movie roadhouse as I'm remembering that was the year

[01:27:34] And I was like, I don't really think roadhouse should be nominated. Yeah, but I want to talk about roadhouse

[01:27:40] We need to talk about roadhouse best stunt coordination. Oh wait, that's the emi's

[01:27:45] They need to get a stunt award at the Oscars

[01:27:47] But they were teasing us this year by talking about the stunts and then not announcing

[01:27:52] The last one was like that they ever had was like been her era

[01:28:00] They've got to bring them back. I have been demanding it for decades

[01:28:05] We need to split up the makeup is like what's good regular makeup and then what's good effects makeup or puppeteering

[01:28:11] That's tough

[01:28:14] Give that Jim Henson and rick baker company some we want to talk diehard and leave the weapon and speed

[01:28:21] and ghost busters and yeah, you know all of the things

[01:28:25] And it would have been hard to integrate that into fun fact. I'll invite you for our valverde saga ranking

[01:28:33] Your valverde saga right? That's the fictional country in diehard 2 and commander and predator

[01:28:39] Okay

[01:28:40] Fair enough. So they're all in that cinematic wait. It's a fictional country in diehard 2 and predator and commando

[01:28:47] in commando

[01:28:49] And the and the replicant company and blade runners the same as the alien movies according to really scott and

[01:28:56] That makes sense

[01:28:57] There's been so many other movies and shows that have heavily implied that they're in the same universe like

[01:29:03] Redditor and commando in pretty short succession. I don't think I really

[01:29:08] Yeah, even just soza who wrote diehard and commando confirmed it

[01:29:13] But yeah, it's it's one of those like they've built on it in comics since then and terminator that robocop did crossovers with avp. So there you go. It's

[01:29:29] The pacific transportation company in diehard 1 and free is the same as the speed movies

[01:29:35] Oh

[01:29:38] So that's fun. I'll let you know. All right. Look at all these extended universes of action movies

[01:29:44] Yep, this is I even said on a recent episode of road commentaries like I created the first cinematic universe for even saying elsewhere

[01:29:53] That's fun. Yeah, that's all right

[01:29:56] Good to know

[01:29:57] It is funny because we did watch predator and commando together for something

[01:30:01] And that went completely over our heads. No, I did not catch that those are both in valverde

[01:30:06] I'm good

[01:30:11] Fun stuff, okay, so looking forward to your next few episodes you guys got good camaraderie and

[01:30:17] Again, it's just cool to just kind of have people remind each other and I like how you jump around. It's not

[01:30:22] You know in chronological order all the time you kind of let's go back to the 50s and let's come back to

[01:30:27] Oh, yeah, we do it in random order. We use random number generator to decide the order of the podcast

[01:30:33] yes

[01:30:35] Which creates interesting synchronicities and also

[01:30:41] Their its own set of challenges as we go back and forth and

[01:30:46] Aren't necessarily seeing things how they developed

[01:30:50] Yeah, it's hard to develop a sense of like how hollywood changed over time from this because we're really getting a

[01:30:56] piecemeal approach but

[01:30:58] Eventually we'll put it all together put it all together exactly

[01:31:03] And I'll welcome you to one of the mock work shows we do annually in the future too

[01:31:08] That'd be great. Well, thank you so much for having us this was a pleasure. We love to talk about born anytime

[01:31:20] Follow us on the web on facebook twitter and instagram

[01:31:24] The podcast is available on podby spotify iHeart radio anchor apple and anywhere else podcasts are available

[01:31:32] Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites

[01:31:36] Thanks a million for listening