Music Photographer Victoria Urso Returns for Another Roundtable Chat!

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information. We missed. We loaded. We edited. Sometimes we get so deep into conversation that we have separate segments worthy of their own place in the sun.

[00:00:32] Here is a reshuffled mini episode. So we have the photography creative director herself back on the show, Victoria Urso. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate being here. When I first made your acquaintance, really just awesome because it was just like, hey, here's someone actually doing what they want for a living. Here's someone who's actually putting their own voice into this stuff.

[00:00:59] The different models, entertainers, but mainly the music bands are really leaving a great impression on her and strengthening her friendships. We've got some good stuff for you to detail because you're taking it to the next level here. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I have a lot to dive into, certainly about entering the industry as a creative, a beginner.

[00:01:25] And I think it's important within this episode to definitely touch base on like when you're beginning as a creative, to conduct yourself. The pointers I can personally give you for being in the industry for about 10 years. Oh, and see, a decade, man.

[00:01:49] Do you look back on how it's been a decade and you're like, what other thing would I have done for those 10 years? You know, like, do you ever do the what if? I don't think I would have ever had it any other way. Okay, perfect. I love that even better. It's like, don't want to even consider a different kind of outcome.

[00:02:13] There's something about looking through the lens and then being able to conduct yourself as a creative. It's your own path. I feel like once you start it and you find the ability to create it, you almost automatically pick it up. It gets magnetic and everything just flows.

[00:02:43] Love it. So some of your first forays were with both the Good Looks Collective in New York City, as well as Chimera Magazine in New York. And Chimera is pretty interesting because like they're all into different arts and kind of allow your photography to be seen with these, you know, juicy interviews. And but did you have a preference?

[00:03:09] I know last time you kind of just wanted it all to be kind of one big compass. But if you had to look back at like what what interview like is like on your bucket list, like at this point, like just like I need that kind of interview. I need that kind of photo journalist project given to me next.

[00:03:30] Well, I really think that Good Looks Collective as a hub in New York City was really excellent to work for as well as Chimera Magazine. Both life changing for me. Because just like introducing me to their platform as a beginner and they're having heavy hitting underground community helped me like kind of find my voice as a creative.

[00:03:58] You know, and give me the ability to show the world what I have to offer. In the preset before we began the show, I did like how you went into your formula. It is.

[00:04:13] Unfortunately, a lot of business courses and even just other classes like to downplay just like they like to talk about, you know, the do's and don'ts in the workplace, but they don't like to go into like uncomfortable stuff, but material that is more realistic. And I'm not trying to get morbid, but just like how to tell if your boss is probably full of themselves, how to tell if you don't have a structured workplace, you know, and how to.

[00:04:43] You know, go from one place to the next, and I like how you went into the whole never accept a handshake deal. It's like, yeah, I need it all in writing, need to look over it, need to. Yeah, I feel like that is like definitely the best piece of advice I can give anyone to protect themselves and protect their creative identity is you have to protect your craft before you can even create it.

[00:05:09] Because like establishing that contract and email baseline early on, it just sends a direct message to the person that you're working with that you're serious about the business that you're doing with them. You need that contract, your values as like a creative and your business ownership as a craft ends in the paper trail.

[00:05:35] So paper trail, you did emphasize protect your craft before you can create it. Why do you think so many like to start allusions on to the copyright process when it's a simple just copyright.gov, you know, and a few other just sites, and you can have so many different copyright protections in place for your materials for your creations.

[00:06:02] I think it's really one of the most important things to do is copyright your work. I mean, if you even look at the music industry, like certain labels and the music that they make is copyrighted all for particular reasons of protecting the art form itself. But as soon as you click that shutter, you really are protected as well. Yes. With the craft. I mean, the camera is registered to your name.

[00:06:31] So like taking somebody's work is really serious. But it really is important, like to set a baseline with somebody that you're working with, especially like in, you know, big music industry productions and music venues and magazines and collectives and radio stations that you, you form a contract. And you, you set early on what you're agreeing upon before you even pick up the camera.

[00:07:01] I'm glad you brought up the radio stations. I've always wondered how much effort they put in that to that other than like the main billboard photo because like I've been at a few internet ones. Got some okay experience, but it was still interesting. It's like I would probably see maybe one or two photo sessions a month. Right. There wasn't. Most of the time, everyone was just doing selfies on their photo and then posting to social media.

[00:07:25] So it was not a good mixture of the two using both the photo and putting the passion and effort into just as much as that versus what they did with social media, which they were spending way more time on. Like, Hey, yo, man, I'm live. Like, okay, but might want to show what you look like or what show the nuggets. So show the creative juices working in the studio and get some other coverage that might help. Right.

[00:07:55] The live coverage over radio waves. I feel like, yeah, it's, you know, it's behind the story. Yeah. This story behind the story behind the story of, of the whole history of music. If you really go back to like funk and flex and everything. DJ live radio waves. So like all of that being documented, I feel like it's, it's especially vital. Yes.

[00:08:26] Oh man. And I was fortunate when we last did our chat, just to hear you just talk about the different ways to cover a music concert, make sure everyone was on the same page and then do even that, do that versus a regular photograph set. And then still feel like you, as long as you had some essence of your voice in there, it was a good day.

[00:08:52] It was really philosophical for lack of a better word, but it was also heartwarming because I have unfortunately encountered some photographers who they do their career, but they don't follow whatever they're covering. So they have no real interest in it. It's just a job. So they're treating it like work. And it's like, Oh, what a shame. I would like to think. There's like 50%. There's no particular soul within what they're creating. Yep.

[00:09:23] Yeah. It was so wild because it would be like for like music and movie events. And they're like, Oh, hi. Hey, don't take this the wrong way. I don't, I don't watch what I. Promote. I'm like, well. I hope I'm not your employer reading those. You know, it's just like, I'm not saying you gotta like it. I'm not saying that at all. I'm not fascist, but it's just interesting. It's like maybe just do some review of it. So you at least know what it is you're promoting instead of, Oh, it's just, it's just work.

[00:09:53] Like what? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Beyond the whole legalities. I think it's really imperative to create like your own website. And like when you create that visual dialogue, the timeline of your own creativity, it's not just for you to be inspired and look back on, but for others too.

[00:10:42] So yes. Yes. Yeah. All kinds of nature, all kinds of stuff. The pet lover in us will definitely love these photos also. Oh, yes. But you did kind of hit on how you'd always wanted to do something like this before you fell into it, stuck with it.

[00:11:04] But what's been the best compliment you've ever gotten from friends or family or peers? I think the best compliment I've ever had through my creativity is the way that I've moved people within a certain base of music. Yes. There you go. It's an ultimate compliment. I love it.

[00:11:32] Being able to like introduce somebody to a whole new world of music because something you created yourself, it's very moving. It is. You'll remember that. You'll get that euphoric energy and it's just like, I don't want this to leave. I don't want this to vent anywhere. This needs to stay here. But now, what do you think keeps you hungry though?

[00:12:00] So for when that positive energy leaves the room and you're like, I want to reinforce even more of that. That's literally part of my brand now because it's a wonderful feeling. And again, just bringing someone's vision to life and then sharing it as part of your own insight, your own brand. You know, it is. It is a double win. But when you get that positive feeling, when you describe that as like the triple win, it's like, man, this is.

[00:12:30] The peace and prosperity because it's like I've. I'm seeing all those electric smiles. I'm seeing all these people just light up and go, whoa. How did you shoot that? That's it's gorgeous. Wonderful. That's. It's so eye catching. I can't believe it's a photograph. You know? Yeah.

[00:12:48] Being able to move somebody with the way that you're able to look through a camera, being able to look through the camera, go into post-production, learn the software and be able to apply what you've learned over the years to your craft is definitely a euphoric. It's a knowledgeable experience. Life.

[00:13:19] Oh, and I feel like it adds connections, too. Yes. Yes, it does. Because the connection. I mean, that that'll there's so many layers to that. You know, it's like now this person isn't just my employer or client. Now they're also just a cool individual. We want to bring this vision to life. It's kind of a more personal mission in a way, instead of just, hi, nice to meet you. You know, would like to have your business again.

[00:13:49] You know, it's more one on one. It's kind of more. That there's like you look forward to the collaboration instead of just. Yeah, I've worked with them once upon a time, didn't keep up with them. You know, it's just like. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:08] It kind of like forces you once you've secured your foundation to keep pushing those collaborative efforts and look for like collaborative outlets that change. Challenge you to like look deeper within yourself. Yes. And for me, I think that's always been like music and surrounding myself with people who push my perspective as an individual.

[00:14:38] I like how you bring it up as perspective, especially how appropriate given a photographer is in the house tonight. But like it is wild though, too, because like you'll see all these individuals is like I didn't know. This was part of pop culture. I didn't know this was a style, but I can capture that on film, on video. And. Where did you feel like your style was really changing?

[00:15:03] Like what was the one shoot, if you want to name it, where you're just like, oh, I can do the shutter speed this way. I can do the setup this way. I can. Do the Photoshop correction. A different technique. Really started working for like multiple bands within probably, probably within like 20, 2017 and 2018.

[00:15:28] When I really worked with like Pretty Lights and Lettuce and Michael Menard a lot. And then I worked with, you know, Marvel years and so down and OPO and. And just even in the beginning, it started off even with Good Looks Collective working with Mr. Bill. He's more of like an Australian DJ.

[00:15:53] So it all and all of these DJs that I did meet became like personal friends of mine. So it became like these collaborative efforts that I did combine into my daily life became catalysts for me and inspirations. I love it. And some big, big names there. You know, Michael Menard, for those who don't know, he's. From Fort Worth, he's now based in Nebraska doing children's music.

[00:16:22] And then we got Marvel years project of DJ Corey Weith. So, hey, big, deep cut, you guys. But Erso's playing. Yes, definitely all great music, all inspiring individuals who have paved the way for really electronic industry. You know, today they are the pioneers.

[00:16:49] So there's some other great photo software that's out there. There's. DBO PhotoLab. There's Affinity. There's Skylum. Luminar Neo. There's Capture One. There's all kinds of other Photoshop alternatives. There's all kinds of other different kinds of ways to edit and even different video formats. I'm not going to let the magician spill all their tricks but

[00:17:16] what do you think is really essential for finding just the right photo software because obviously you got to tell everyone in ahead of time you got to experiment you got to make time for that and then you got to figure out what saves time what gets your effort across what makes your signature style do you think there's a five step process to it or is it really just go all in

[00:17:39] I really think that it all begins with just really being interested in the craft I started using an iPhone and then worked my way up from an iPhone to using a camera that I had found online one of my friends was actually selling it he sold it to me

[00:18:05] and it was like a 2012 Nikon and then from there I worked my way up from like a kit lens working with like professional gear now so I do feel like it as long as you're interested in learning it all catalysts the way it should but I feel like a lot of beginners fall into a certain trap

[00:18:33] when they look at like trendsetters and creators yes and they admire them and they use like their their social media and their inspirations and they let it take over their own image as a creator and I feel like when you look at these magazines and collectives and mentors you definitely need to learn from them but don't copy them I feel like the

[00:19:02] the basic posting on social media that makes like everything a fleeting moment and a fleeting trend I feel like if you if you really want to like survive long term you have to like block out the white noise that's on social media and you've got to find your own thought process through the feed itself and establish your own unique purpose

[00:19:32] some kiki words man so much win but yeah it's like I kind of get into this with other pop culture people are like oh you're grumpy I'm like well no I'm just seeing a copy and a paste I'm not seeing the person be them I'm seeing I need to see them be themselves you know yeah like don't don't fall into the trap of like the basic basic posting that we have today like it's go deeper

[00:20:02] like you said like it's okay to make it more poetic make yourself stand yeah make yourself stand out I feel like we we use these trendsetters and creators and we're not using them you know for the right reasons we need to create our own unique purpose

[00:20:32] and that's what's most important amen because uh when so when you looked at your style uh how did you kind of like layer out what you wanted versus what you didn't want versus you're like this is me like I need more of this I need to figure out how to get there and get that across from storyboarding what you wanted to trying out different photo techniques

[00:21:03] um I feel like my style kind of like I keep on trying to keep it interesting like always change my style of creativity so that it cannot be replicated so I like to keep everything um like interesting and and not conforming to just one thing so it's not just conforming to you know one photograph at one point I was doing like a whole

[00:21:32] project on creating um like mixed media and attaching it to paintings that I made and and applying it to that and then dedicating it to music and that was a whole project that I had made creatively and then now more it's like it's more of creative films and the evolution of becoming a creative director like your style just keeps evolving

[00:22:02] as you keep creating um and learning who you are as as your own unique purpose purpose is so hard too because like you know when you're going through just high school and even college and working jobs you don't want to work to fund what you want to actually craft and work to work on this is like yeah purpose you can never forget about that

[00:22:32] there's so many great uh podcast hosts and even book authors who talk about staying hungry and having that fuel your goals uh would you say you've accomplished most of your goals but you still have plenty of them on your bucket list to complete yes i feel like i have definitely um accomplished a lot of my goals as a creative that i feel like i was

[00:23:01] always aspiring especially working for pretty lights i think that working for him was one of my um my most well-established goals of my career uh to work for a a musician um i just think his his music is was a form of impeccable art that helped create you know the creativity that i do today and the way the outlook i look on life

[00:23:31] and um a lot of the djs that i've worked for throughout the years are all connected within his music as well so i really do think that i have accomplished my goals and set out a map of the people i've networked with but of course they could always now move on to this new evolution of being a creative director and moving independently is um this whole um

[00:24:00] effect of of film but it always goes back to um a specific description and creative aspect of music expression because i think that music art culture and food are really all connected you know that's the other thing too because like people you know people like to just enjoy the food it's like well here's the thing you need food

[00:24:29] and so it's like it's not just enjoying it or a preference it's like you also need stuff that puts you in a peace of mind is actual brain food and food is life and i'm glad you that just really tickles me that you just said that just because it's like i see it done the wrong way where people want to use it for an event where it does not merit it where it kind of like let's go to a movie we'll talk i'm like no we won't we'll be

[00:24:59] watching the movie oh let's go to a concert we'll talk like only if we meet you know half an hour before and so why do people like to put food in the most inappropriate settings like i'm sorry at a wedding or a funeral you guys can enjoy it i don't see the point in it i need to grieve and let everyone else know hey let's keep these let's fuel these memories let's honor this person keep their spirit alive same thing with but but food i owe

[00:25:29] anytime there's a job interview and they're like let's meet at this restaurant i'm like let's meet at your office please you're gonna be you're not gonna give me the interview you won't have a problem with how i eat but i know you'll be judging every method everything from my utensils everything i don't want to break bread with you won't give it to me just because i didn't order a latte stupid petty stuff is like you know your insecurities and you judging me are not part of my

[00:25:58] day-to-day existence so it's like yeah food we should do that for the end of the day for and it should be something we're all sharing stuff with each other my sister and i personally look at it as kind of like when wrapping a gift we could care less about gifts we get we more get more reward from just wrapping the perfect gift is like hey here's here's a barrel of nuggets a package for you and there's all kinds of different stuff that you've been meaning to put and

[00:26:28] use in your day-to-day life and i'm sure you could work that even back to photography is like you want something to frame that is like hey this reminds us of our accomplishments it's not just rock band photos and you know graduation photos that are embarrassing you know yeah definitely um i feel like as a a uh photographer and a film creator and creative director uh being inspired by visuals itself

[00:26:59] i mean it comes from the aspect of the people around you what you you the culture and life that you pull from them it you'd like to document that as well i don't think it's all just gonna be commercialized yes photography if it is you're a very bland creator well and i'm glad you bring that up because it's like people are instantly gonna go back oh but they're being paid top dollar i'm like

[00:27:29] yeah but they likely don't have a soul you know like please do something else with that camera because it it needs the expression that's what it needs something yeah it definitely needs that expression that flavor you know it's not all about just the commercialized a little bit it's about you know creating your own voice bingo was there ever a project

[00:27:58] without naming any where you're just like this is fine but this will be the last time because my voice has been compromised the client is talented but they're also a curmudgeon when it comes to bossing us around and not giving us time to create the art i just use this as a healing tactic because you have to do that there are plenty of people i admire but i will never work for because i just know they're gonna be blowing up my email and it's like i need my five hours of sleep can you give me

[00:28:28] you know can we can we talk in 10 minutes you know yeah i think a big thing about the music industry itself especially being a concert photographer as soon as the show is over you go home you're going home right to edit because there's about eight photographers in line editing right behind you and you're all racing for the moment you're going to send it to the management so

[00:28:58] it is a very stressful timeline and that's sad to say now that i suffer from insomnia and i've kept it in check that there's so many of those gigs i couldn't do your job but i would love to have done a job like that back and that's why i think it's it's also good you can take a break from that and just enjoy the show so it's important to do that as well well and then find other ways to even do these schedules stop them from being

[00:29:27] messy you know but it is important important to enjoy you know the vibe and the music the tone of the crowd the community what they're trying to embody there and really the voice of the venue as well take that all in don't take it too seriously you know you gotta

[00:29:57] learn from it that learning is definitely key what was the biggest on the job learning moment that stayed with you and definitely helped you incorporate more lighting techniques more time-saving efforts i feel like each

[00:30:26] venue that you're creating in that space is a learning experience within itself you're learning that venue you know whoever the lighting designer the act is you're learning the way they conduct that stage and if you can hit the right setting at the right click at the right time with the right ISO and aperture to be able to be successful

[00:30:56] and it's not easy and not every time are you going to be able to get the best shot but that doesn't mean that you have you ever worked it into other parts of your formula like here's where I'm going to park at this crowded venue here's where I'm going to set up I'm going to get here an hour early beat traffic have time to just breathe for a minute before I focus the next five hours on covering the show

[00:31:27] I feel like it definitely becomes once you start doing it for a long time you especially when you're applying to work for these specific acts independently you start to feel the energy of the crowd that you're working with the energy of the venue that you're working with and you learn as the night goes

[00:31:57] on and you're able to control that in a way if you really want to but there have been times where venues are very overcrowded and it's not as easy if you're not in the direct photo taking the imagery it becomes a lot more difficult especially

[00:32:27] for a beginner and I'm glad you're bringing this up because you know not every venue again that we wouldn't have different venues if they were all the same and not everyone is going to have a photography or access badge to move around not everyone is going to be as tight with security breaking up the crowd so that's kind of cool that you're having to find some stuff in the moment it's like you know what I'll make this work I don't like this angle I might actually

[00:32:57] find the magic I might find something here if I end up in one spot I kind of just look around me and if I feel like somebody in the crowd is feeling the energy from another area I'll go test the waters over there and see what it kind of feels like from that as an element that's lovely it's really lovely yeah I feel like it's a way of like reading your audience

[00:33:27] so that's kind of hard like you can read parts of the room but then you'll see someone who's very they got a good poker face you don't know if they they're a little too hammered or you have to be careful with that too I mean not everybody likes a camera being around them and when I

[00:34:01] you you you you but people don't know that just by looking at you having some gear yeah yeah but then it's like also a parallel of that of like I remember I documented for late night radio in this very small venue in Pennsylvania the World Live Cafe and it's like a radio station but

[00:34:30] late night radio was doing a set there there was a little girl and it was her first concert ever and I documented her dancing right next to

[00:35:01] I was actually going to lean into that what was the biggest validation you probably had like did you ever see any of those photos you shot used on album covers Spotify playlists or even just like at slideshows as a background photo for a band a lot of the bands that I have worked for have used relaxed photos for their social media posting so I got to work with them directly just independently over the years

[00:35:31] so that's very honorable because you know they're professionals and they put a lot of hard work into their music it's not just mindlessly shoot in the background because we need you yeah exactly and you know that photo was was chosen and it's also like the people who come up to me at certain shows and they're like I saw your photo on the internet and I started listening to this band and you got me into the music like I would never even know about it today if it wasn't for

[00:36:01] you and I'm like well damn you left me speechless on

[00:36:52] and maybe it inspires

[00:37:23] me are you familiar with the group pogo no big florida based group did a mixture like kind of punk and electronic and rock music and but it was so funny how they talked about it's like people thought we just went under it's like we were just working with other groups instead of focusing on our main group we just took you know 20 year hiatus came back to it when we felt like it

[00:37:53] do you feel like a lot of do that same kind of deal too where it's like I'm gonna take the other music gigs or do a bartending in between the sets and

[00:38:24] who who who who who an hiatus like that it'll come to them they can't think like that they gotta be on their grind like in studio 24 seven practically living yeah so looking to you know build their craft and find their purpose just like any art form because there's so much just so much digestive media out there today commercialized and

[00:38:53] just so much out there that we have like I said earlier you really just gotta find something that makes you stand out I love it I've had so many delightful talents on this year everything from members of a dance union to just other music editors and uh so for the editor brain uh are you ever able to kind of switch that off you're like hey I

[00:39:23] gotta crash I gotta sleep on this I'm not liking these edits I'll come back and look at it with a fresh mind or do you just say getting this done now I'll review it and show it to others and then go back and oh god the dialogue for photography has gone on for about 10 years and I feel like that alone is just so much but also the digestive media that I have for film has changed so much over the years my editing

[00:39:53] style it's always changing but I feel like I've come more into the process of holding more of my media sacred to me not showing the world everything right away until I'm ready as the creative to show it to them like it doesn't need to be released right now or released in this moment just because it happened yesterday like I can

[00:40:22] hold that to myself for a few years and then release it to the public when I'm ready it doesn't have to be something that's instantaneous so you don't want the instant reaction you just kind of slowly build on it it'll get there when it gets there and I feel like when you slowly build on anything that's creative music or art it just the the crap in it and the the workmanship

[00:40:51] becomes much more of an art form that you create something like like a prologue like something so much huger than than just releasing something so instant keyword prologue you know that wouldn't really hurt at all for like any kind of creative vision like it's like you might as well have some kind of build up like that's kind of what in some ways the album cover to

[00:41:22] music kind of is is like here's what you're about to see and then when you listen to this record or this CD a few times then you can look at the story notes on how this was conceived yeah the you know the once you create something and you create a dialogue throughout years and years of you know digested media with with a camera like you document your life

[00:41:52] you're you're putting it out on the table just not for yourself to to show to the world but for you to look back and be inspired on in the future all right you are just wiping the floor you just so much win so much honesty so much bluntness but also just positivity equaling other positivity who can argue with that

[00:42:21] yeah who can argue with that there's there's in your life it's it's you and yourself and your creations you can always learn from anything you've done in your past I've never lived my life with any jealousy so this is great to hear and everyone's going to go you liar I'm like no I don't see the point of jealousy especially if you don't want to be like that person who you're inspired by is like

[00:42:51] but you do bring up a good method of you can still take it as a challenge and want to have something on your tombstone it's like I accomplished this I did this you know it's like it's not I want to be better than these top five you know people with a bigger connection that doesn't mean I want to be bad a lot of people take that as oh no challenge oh you clearly want to be bad at this it's like no that's not what I'm a dominating industry too you know what I mean everything is

[00:43:21] creativity it's very dominating people are very cutthroat and they do what they need to do to come out on top don't let their bad business or the way that they hits with other people and they they jumped in front of me and that's

[00:43:51] completely unprofessional you know you're in a pit so be considerate to others instead of a out of my way jerk like what be considerate to everyone's art form we're all creatives here better yet utilize them all yeah connect with them you know oh man I was at I was an unpaid internet photo video shoot one time so a they don't

[00:44:21] tell us where to park that eats up an hour I get in they don't recognize some of the certain names then finally someone recognizes the name says here you're in the wrong part of the concert there's another concert going on going to this and the other people who have way bigger equipment they do all the connection and refuse to work with me at all or even do any kind of mentoring I'm like okay you know I got a camcorder and I'm doing my best but I'm just going to go home no one's working with each other and you're not even telling me what you want

[00:44:51] and then they had the nerve to say hey we weren't going to use you anyway I'm like great because I could see that I could see home just feeling what I was doing and then I was like you know I haven't heard from him in five years one of them is still working and I mean nothing personal and I but he's not a collaborator he's kind of a sales

[00:45:21] guy so I not going to get there and waste time and make sure the parking meter is good and go to the wrong concert venue where there happens to be three other side parties and concerts happening

[00:45:51] and all the back-to-back shows on top of one show one of them is basically a dance club with DJs but they didn't say that they were like oh you're covering a band and the next thing you know you're like why are you at that concert come here I'm like well because it's a giant stadium in the middle of a silent disco you said come here you're barking at me like I'm a dog come here now oh no no no so but enough of that I just laugh at that now I'm like that was

[00:46:21] dumb of me you live and you learn rb

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[00:47:49] welcome to the better call daddy show the number one podcast where we admit no matter what happens daddy has the advice we need to fix our problems introducing my dad mr. wayne freeman freeman that was good it would be nice if you could also sing a song what would the song be you love paris in the springtime i just made up some words to it i love rena in the springtime i love rena in the fall

[00:48:13] that's right that's right that's right that's good enough what i do is interview people of interest share it with my dad and get my dad's advice my dad is my hero nobody's got my daddy oh boy let's go to grandpa i'm your host rena rena

[00:48:55] in five seconds and then they're done because A, they don't want to spend money and B, they're quick. My stepfather had mania. If I'm yelling at one of my kids, that fear, that rigid fear. Mom even said to me, I hope you have a kid just like you. There are lots of people that are being bought and sold right now for profit. If you think you're going to kill yourself, shut up and kill yourself. If you're not going to kill yourself, then shut up, smarten up, and it's all on you. The bullshit has to end. Wow. When I was 11 years old, I was raped and molested over the course of a year.

[00:49:25] What Jeffrey Epstein had was a sickness inside of him. I am Evan Castrilli Carmichael. I can do anything that I believe that I can. I'm so excited too. Let's go. Next, I'm Better Call Daddy with my mom and my grandpa. Stay tuned. You have a connection in Norwalk in Connecticut. That's pretty cool. Norwalk, yes. Norwalk. I'm the worst pronouncing. Norwalk. You can tell I'm not from there.

[00:49:55] It's okay. Okay. So, you said you got the most benefit from that, just from those connections, especially from the radio stations. I like how you word it. They hold the keys to the music scene. That could not be more on the money. It's just like, yeah. Yeah. They will cut through the red tape of these connections. They might even let you see a live

[00:50:22] radio interview go down. They might even let you see just some other photo op and connect you with five other photo wizards. You know, it's great. Yeah. I think if you definitely want to stand out, you need to plug directly into the cultural pulse of your community. So, like, don't wait for, like, a massive outlet or a metropolis to decide you're, like, worthy as a creative. You have to make your own name and it's like

[00:50:52] where you're standing right now, you know? And I like how you're also, again, you're outlining this based on a tri-state blueprint. It's like, yeah, New Jersey, Connecticut, New York City. Perfect. Yeah. Tri-state blueprint. Pennsylvania, too. Oh. Yeah. So, you know, I've been all over New York, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New Jersey, down in Florida.

[00:51:22] So, you're very flexible at everything. Do you ever go about, like, the travels differently? Like, hey, I'm gonna bring friends along, you know? I'm gonna drive with them or I'm gonna fly and meet up at this airport and then stay at this beach house or this residency where some other colleagues are at and just find other time-saving methods.

[00:51:48] Well, a lot of it was really traveling with my loved ones, like, the people that who believed in me the closest. And they would bring me out there to the show and we would spend time together for this past years just enjoying the music and really taking in my vision and being able to create a purpose from that. And then also, like, kind of enjoying that with,

[00:52:14] like, friends and family and sharing it with them. And then it becomes, like, a part of the moments we share together and memories we have. I love it. That's... So, again, you know, like, you're living this instead of just, oh, gotta go to work now. Yeah, yeah. Actually living and breathing and making new memories with it. People, you know,

[00:52:41] like, happy moments. It's not just all seriousness. So, it's just... Yeah. It's a very high vibrational act of creativity and expression. And I think the whole purpose of why I create is to really inspire people. But I think that a good piece that I can give to, like,

[00:53:09] people who are starting out in the industry is that you really need to apply to, like, local, local, like, music venues and then really do connect with the radio station. Because, like you said, they do hold the keys to, like, the local music scene. And when you shoot, like, those live venues across, like, across the tri-state area and you capture communities while working with the local

[00:53:34] stations over those airwaves, you're not really, like, a photographer anymore. You're, like, weaving your own visuals directly into your city. And I think that's, like, really a massive ecosystem for collaboration. And I think, like, from magazines and collectives that raised me as an individual, I think to the venues and the radio stations and even, like, the local government that

[00:54:01] I've worked with, that's exactly the connections I've found in Norwalk and throughout my creative career in Connecticut. I was being based in Connecticut. And I think the local music scene is really powerful out here underground. And I really think that every single shoot that I've ever experienced is, like, a classroom. And owning your identity is the ultimate advantage and power to being a creative.

[00:54:33] Can I just say you just put that so eloquently? Like, and you took your time with that statement, and I was entranced because it was kind of just, I feel like you just kind of soar and walk through these different stages. And it's just, it's just really peace of mind. Like, while also reflecting on

[00:54:53] the peacefulness itself. And again, this isn't, this is a challenge, but it's not endless labor. It's not slaving away. I, again, I'm so proud of that anyone can just want to clock in naturally at work. Yeah, it's become my own creative voice. My ultimate power in life as my identity.

[00:55:23] Really, and I really do think it's a gift. Anybody who has a talent that can paint, that can draw, that can look through a lens, that can create. Never give up. You can always keep going, and it will take you places one day. It's, you know, it's a form of expression. And it's only a positive thing in

[00:55:47] life. It can only bring you into great places. I love it. I guess furthermore, so that's cool that you've had other friends and family just come along for these encounters. Had there ever been times where you're like, oh, we got to stay an extra day?

[00:56:09] Um, yeah, there are times that, oh my god, there are times that I've literally, we drove down to Pennsylvania to see Pretty Lights play New Year's Eve in 2018 for the New Year's Eve show. Drove down there into Pennsylvania to Philly and drove home in the same night. It was the most extensive adventure

[00:56:34] I've ever been on. But there are times definitely where I think, um, you know, getting the hotel room and being able to have that space to edit in is like one of the most relaxing experiences as a part of your journey. Um, but it is nice to be also like close to home because then you can just, you know, plant

[00:57:02] yourself right back in, in your creative bubble and just, it's very comfortable as well. So it's, it's the best of both worlds. I think, um, you know, music, art, travel, culture, and food, they all have hands in hand. It definitely is kind of a, see, it goes back to food.

[00:57:30] Don't bite the hand that feeds and then at the same time offer nourishment, offer just other incredible stuff. Yeah. You know, even when you, um, like are going to experience a concert or a music festival, you know, food is always an incorporation of that. Stop enjoying the, the music beforehand. You're going to go get food.

[00:57:57] You know, that's kind of a good, no, I like that. I like that. That's a good kind of celebration. Kind of like, kind of like when you are trying to help out a friend, just, it can be anything you're trying to. Either end of the argument, de-stress them before they give a great business speech or they're prepping for their wedding. And it's like, let, here, let's make 20 steps just be five.

[00:58:23] Let's, let's try this, you know, like, or, or this is, I mean, I'm sure you've had it with the bandmates where they're like, we want to go here. We want to go there. And you can just say, how about we just try this? That accomplishes free out of those five things you want. Right. Or, or the musician might be so private that they just, they find their own five-star restaurant to go to belong. Boom. You know?

[00:58:48] But either way, like, stating it as a question, like, that, that clears the room. That gets rid of the ones who are insecure and want to just tell people their idea sucks and then realize, oh, I'll renege on it, but it's my idea, even though you suggested it. Or you get the ones who are, oh, I would have never thought of that. Can I, you know, promote you? Right. Can I get you anything else here to make your existence? Can I bring you on tour with me? You know?

[00:59:15] Right. It just, and again. It all has to start somewhere. Well, and you can't, you can repay back just, not just positivity, but just helpfulness. And it's like, you know, after a while, it's like, why wouldn't anyone who doesn't value that? I don't want to know them. You know? Why wouldn't you value the helpful person who's always there on time,

[00:59:44] making sure the cathedral is clean? Why wouldn't you, you know, janitors are my heroes. Like, yeah. Absolutely. And I think that documenting, um, the music scene itself, especially within this new digital generation where everything is very vivid and rapid and instant, it's very important to document. It's a part of history. Yes. Within music.

[01:00:15] Oh, and that's just it too. It's like, uh, they might not tour a certain venue for a while, or they might open up. It's even more fun when you see other talents networking with other talents is like that. That's when the networking event has already pretty much concluded. And now it's become an unofficial after party. Now everyone's actually passing out business cards, phone numbers,

[01:00:39] but the ones who legit have turned off the sales person face is like, no, we just made an even more personal connection. I want to actually see how you mix this material, learn from you photographers, are actually saying, Hey, I want to actually take your tutorial since I'd rather learn from you than go to a college course. It's like, Oh yeah. And if you can find like a mentor like that, like a,

[01:01:09] a true, you know, mentor that you can reflect with who actually appreciates your craft, definitely hold on to that because that's important, especially with musicians. If they see something different within your craft and support it, it's, it's something that you should believe in within your vision because, you know, that's not supported and

[01:01:35] encouraged every day and don't let any other outside forces for that creativity. Oh, and that's just it. Usually the smack talker, that's not your friend. Anyway, I, I made the hard decision and people were like, Oh, you just made a dumb mistake. And I was like, no, I've blamed myself. This is, I, the writing was all there before this bad encounter reared its

[01:02:00] ugly head. In this case, it was just someone who I joked around with, but wasn't really a friend. They were just wasting my time and then decided one day to just say the worst possible thing you could say to anyone, which is, I don't believe you're good at anything on their birthday. And so, but I use this as like, I, I soaked it in. I didn't just learn from that. It's like, you know,

[01:02:27] it was all there. I did all the conversation, starting an interaction. He gave me nothing back. And then he decided to be a real tick, you know, who just, you know, bites your skin and just says, I'm going to suck your blood out. You know, just. Oh yeah. Like that's definitely, I'm not somebody, I'm not inviting to my birthday party ever again. He decided I bought him lunch and presents. And he

[01:02:53] pretty much said, I have no use for this. And by the way, you're not good at anything. It's like, what the hell's wrong with you? And if you wanted to be constructive and say, Hey, I think you should do this or stick to that, that would have been great. But he just flat out knew I liked doing this kind of thing and just decided to just rub that in. Like he basically burned my skin and then just, you know, put rubbing it all over. So.

[01:03:19] That's a big reflection on him himself and, and his ego. And, you know, you're right. Draw that line in the sand and, and he's not a supporter of you or your ideas and the right people, they will always support you. Well, but also it's like, I kind of, I needed to run into that to also just learn what makes an actual friend. Cause a lot of people like to go into blind stuff. Well, they've been cool or this and that. It was like, yeah, but what do you actually do as friends?

[01:03:49] If you just BS with each other, that's not really much friendship. It should be more deeper. On your way of life. I knew a guy still great friends with them. He was working for some different videography companies and he and I were friends with some other guy who had been to some of the different colleges who kind of just took out his failings. He had done all kinds of different entertainment gigs and just would put them in rants.

[01:04:16] And then just act like he's being helpful. It was like, no, no, you've, you've inserted the word you, you're taking out all your anger on me. What, what the hell dude? And so, what's so funny is he actually messages me and I've coincidentally have talked to the same guy the same day as like, have you noticed he's been a little more kind of passive aggressive? I'm like, yeah. Yeah. And so, you got to just kind of call out the elephant in the room. But this takes me to what I did actually want to

[01:04:44] coincidentally ask you earlier is like, I don't recall. I'm going to say no, I didn't. But I can't remember if I asked you who your mentor was last sit down we did. I'm going to say no, just for argument's sake. But my mentors definitely have to be Pretty Lights, Michael Menert, and Crystal Blackburn.

[01:05:13] Crystal Blackburn helped create Pretty Lights label. And she was his videographer and photographer for the original album he created, A Color Map of Sun. Michael Menor also helped create multiple albums with Pretty Lights. And they are both musicians originally based in Colorado. And that is where their music scene started from Red Rocks.

[01:05:43] So it's a big inspirative element in my life, especially the music video, We Must Go On. She created that video with Derek Vincent Smith. And I feel like that was a huge, inspiring element within my life. And really had me inquire to pick up a camera and start using Photoshop, other elements within Adobe.

[01:06:13] It really formed the evolution of who I've become today as an independent creator. I love it. I love it. I love it. That's, see, that's, man, you're just, you're wiping the floor with just nothing but positivity. Because again, it's not a challenge. It's not trying to be better than other people. It's trying to be just great at what you do and make it speak louder than words.

[01:06:46] Inspiration definitely keeps the creativity flowing. And life is beautiful when you believe in you. Believe in you. I mean, there's a reason these guys are all bandmates. They kind of create a different variation of bands. They assemble people. They bring not just the individuals together, make the creative juices flow. They also, they are, going back to your original point, they're storytellers.

[01:07:11] So it's like, you know, when you just have one win after another win after another, just positive burst. It's kind of like, you know, this is life. Yeah, they created the elements of what we know today of music history. And without them taking the stage, you know, we wouldn't have so many other inspirative elements that help us create as well.

[01:07:40] It's all magnetic. I love it. Well, magnetic is always definitely the best way in describing any persona. Like, I legit like talking to you because you are a, you kind of outline it and you, you get to the finish line, but you show it's not about winning a race.

[01:08:05] And it's like, you know, when anyone states it that way, that's, that's a lot more food for thought. That's getting rid of just any, I mean, it's kind of why I like improv comedy for lack of a better comparison. It's like, it's not about being funnier than the other person, let alone even trying to be funny. It's just existing in a scene and creating a cohesive formula with other collaborators.

[01:08:31] And it only dies when someone's a curmudgeon doesn't follow the rule, which is, you know, react, respond. And I mean, you can kind of argue that's kind of the art in and of itself, that there's no point in going to like an art show or a photograph show, for instance. If no one says anything at all, it's like, well, and then other times it's like, yeah, we're all saying stuff. We're all making note of who wrote that, who that artist was.

[01:08:59] Some people are going to walk around even more throughout the museum in some cases, because they're on their seventh glass of wine or snack that's offered there. And they're, they're, they're literally soaking in the details is like, that's, that, that's the beautiful thing about interpreting art in and of itself, really. In all honesty.

[01:09:23] I definitely agree upon that, that it's important to find an element through your creativity that separates each element to its own. Like, I really did start out as like a live music photographer and express that element for over 10 years now.

[01:09:47] But I feel like I have more pivoted now towards being a creative director and making my own independent films now for almost three years and collecting media to release it in a very specific way. As well as doing my own independent creations for music and the music element as well.

[01:10:15] But there's a distinctive separation and difference between the two now. And I feel like once you distinguish who you are as a creator, it sets that whole layout for, for where you want to go and how you want to get there.

[01:10:36] And I really think that, um, a huge catalyst to my inspiration as a creator is the fact that also, um, Freddie Lights and his music is free for download. All of it. All of his music is free for download.

[01:10:57] And that is what makes people who create for his community and put out, um, so much creativity. It makes it endless for them because it's available for download. And he actually just released a saga and it's called the trip through time. Fantastic. It's all available for download right now.

[01:11:21] So I've been also working on this whole, um, cinematic film process of becoming a creative director. Now the element that I've been creating as well as, you know, utilizing what he's given to all of us free for download, which is fantastic. That's great.

[01:11:43] Because again, you're also, he's sharing this and it's not just, Hey, check out my thing that I'm working on now. It's like, here's something that kind of brought us together. And yeah. And we've been waiting for this album for a very long time. Um, since the last album, I think was released in 2014.

[01:12:05] And, um, it's this, this has been a long time coming and the whole thing was curated and helped produced by Michael Menard as well. You know, I haven't really seen them work together since, um, taking up your precious time. So it's, it's become a full circle type of thing for the entire fan base. And he's as well, uh, pretty much just going back on tour.

[01:12:32] It's just a very interesting, um, pivot from, from everything that we have through been digesting throughout the years live is now finally available to us to view and download. I love that. I will also, do you ever feel.

[01:12:54] Like you've kind of just kicked away just any, any other kind of just negative energy as a result, just cause like, it's easy to do that. Oh, I would have done this. I would have done that. But now at this point, you're just like, uh, I, I, there's so much just positivity and I don't want to word it as a win because everyone likes to think, Oh, I did this. I did that. And it always goes back to, I'm powerful. I'm money, but, or some other soulless measure.

[01:13:24] And it's like, yeah, but you met all these wonderful friends. Then you met these other great collaborators, other clients. And then, but it's all second nature. The clients are also your friends. The work is also something you're a part of and you're also enjoying as a onlooker. And it's just like, why does anyone want to live in any kind of negativity after a while?

[01:13:50] I think purpose is, is a part of everything in life. If you don't have purpose, it's not going to work. If you're not an actual friend. Yeah. Like, yeah. Purpose and being genuine. If you don't want to collaborate, if you don't want to be genuine, if you don't want to make the friends and the purpose, it's not going to click for you.

[01:14:16] You have to really hone into the genuine purpose of it and what it, what it means to you and why you want to change the world. I think that's why I do what I do. And by the way, have you traveled by any chance like out of the States at any fun locations?

[01:14:41] I've been to, well, like, like traveling, like just to do the live music shows or just traveling in general? Or both. Yeah. Oh, I have some traveling trips I'm actually going on coming up. I'm actually going to Colorado in September. So I, I've never done that. I'm actually going to go see Pretty Lights at Yawndon. So I'm going to go out there. So that, that'll be very interesting.

[01:15:11] And then I'm going to probably go to the Capitol Theater shows as well in Port Chester for his Pretty Lights tour in, in August. So it's a little bit of traveling that I have going on. But I've, in the past, I've been for music.

[01:15:29] I've been all over New York City, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, New Jersey, basically all of the tri-state area to, to see a lot of music. And particularly each guy new has its own nostalgia.

[01:15:54] But I think that festivals, you know, they take a lot of, they take a lot more work and duration. So there's a lot more to it. So it, it becomes more of an experience for the music goer. And also, you know, you've lived on both sides of the camera. So it's just also just fun to just kind of be like, hey, I can tell it's going to be a good show.

[01:16:22] Or, you know, this place doesn't have the best setup, but. Or I know where the sound is going to be good. Or I know where I don't want to stand because there's too many people over there. There, yes. And. It's, it's nice to just chill out sometimes though. And when I'm not taking pictures there, you know. And being able to just enjoy the music.

[01:16:47] I'm not sure if I'm going to be taking pictures for the shows that I'm going to in the future. But it will be nice to just enjoy it as well. Well, as I'm on more of this creative journey with being a creative director. Maybe I'll just take the elements of the places that I do travel to and incorporate it into something that I'm planning for the future.

[01:17:12] Plus, like you say, like, let's say the events, just a little schlocky and just whatever you can say. But at least the talent here is going to blow the, you know. Roof off this place. Yeah, they're going to earn their money. Yeah. So then. Oh yeah, the act itself is what makes, you know, the venue great. Really. And. But the sound does matter as well. Absolutely.

[01:17:40] It's like the, the, that stuff is always going to be working over time. Even if it's not the best, the, obviously they, you know, the waiting crew and the. Yeah. Parking attendance. They're going to be, you know, all glued in, you know, it's like, Hey, got, got to make sure everyone's enjoying themselves. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. It's. Getting to the venue.

[01:18:10] I think it's the most stressful part. It really is. The entire process. Yeah. The traveling. Totally. It's like, you got to allow yourself enough time. Then you got to get past all the other guys who were awful. And. Like you say, just any. A moment to breathe. You know. In between. Yeah, absolutely. It's important to have.

[01:18:40] That moment to breathe. And that's why I think it is good. Like we did talk about earlier. Do. You can form. That creative expression. And you can be that photographer in the beginning. That only does live music. But that doesn't have to only be your path. It can form into something else. That's much more personal and creative.

[01:19:10] We're a creative directing path. Into something that you. You didn't even imagine before. But now that's what it's. Catalyzed into. It's all about how you. Figure out that journey. Yeah. And really. You know. Find. Find. The purpose. And vision. That you want to tell. To the world.

[01:19:41] And. If it's really going to change the world. I'm glad you're bringing that. You know. Because it's like. You see so many other people. They're proposing something. You're going to get out of those naysayers. Oh. It seems impossible. Unless you're. You know. That they're. They're over advertising. It's like. No, no, no.

[01:20:10] I need to actually listen. What do I want to do? Here's how I want to accomplish it. And. I mean. I kind of did this with the podcast. After a while. Honestly. To. It's not just listening to positive people like you. But it's also. It's like. Yeah. Give every. I know. You got to use skill sets from other. Hats that you've worn. Other professions you've worked in. It's like. If anything. At the end of the day. Enough sleep. Enough time. That balances everything else out. Like.

[01:20:39] That's what you need for starters. You know. And if. Yeah. And if. One way is not working. There is another door of creativity. That you can open. And leave you somewhere else. And. You just got to use your imagination. To find it. Oh. And imagination is like. Yeah. I just feel like people. Restrict themselves. Intentionally. Or they like to misinterpret the word. Oh well. It's not going to make me money. So I'm not going to try that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like. Why don't you try it anyways?

[01:21:09] I gotta be a sellout. It's like. And. It's kind of like when. You challenge someone who goes. I don't know what that is. I don't like it. It's like. Well it's pretty hard to not like something. If you don't know what it is. Yeah. If you haven't tried it yet. Then how do you know it's not going to work? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a little just. Just. Let's just think this out. Just a little bit. And.

[01:21:38] I don't know. But like you say. And I think that does draw back to what we were saying about a hiatus too. Like people take hiatus for a couple years. They kind of like figure out where they're trying to go with it. And then they take it in a different direction. I've learned. I did do that more than once in my career. Oh. Figure it out. But it was at least. Rewarding. Like you gave yourself breathing time. Thinking time. And then.

[01:22:10] Here's what I'm going to try. Like in a way it's almost like a chess game. But it's not. I want to win or anything. It's like. Here's how I want to plant my move. And just. In fact if anything. This goes back to what they use in screenwriting. Class. The domino effect. But we should all be using a domino effect of some kind. Is like. Well but. The goal is to not. Have them toss over. The goal is to just. Let them fall where they fall.

[01:22:38] And that's where they land is weird. And where. Hell where you land. At the end of this session. Is where. You're going to probably try and. Carve out a new. That new path. As that result. You know it's like. You know nothing. But at the same time. Nothing is final either. You know it's just. How about I just try this for a bit. How about I try that. You know and. Let it progress both naturally. Without forcing it. As well as. Not say no. To just. Everything. And.

[01:23:07] Everyone does it differently. Some people like to get the. Difficult. Task. Out of the way first. Just to say they did it. Which I think is also kind of healing. It can also just be. Hey I. You know like. Go back to your work method in general. Some people like to get the harder. Task. Out of the way first. So they can just kind of coast. Through the easy stuff. They've already mastered. And vice versa. Other people like to get the. It's easier if they get out the stuff. They do know out of the way. And then.

[01:23:37] Encounter the stuff. The task. That is daunting. Or very difficult. You know it's. But there's no wrong way to do it. Yeah everybody's. Yeah. Everybody's creative mind. Is completely different. There's no right answer to creating. Everybody has their own way of doing it. I mean I taught myself. Just by like looking at some. A couple YouTube videos. And then. Just dove right into Photoshop. Like Lightroom. And Premiere Pro. And just dove right into After Effects.

[01:24:07] And. And then just. Started playing around with the controls. And then 10 years later. I'm like. I don't need to look anything up anymore. You know. So it's. There you go. It's just like. I feel like it's. It's all really just like. A learning. Experience. And everybody is. Absolutely going to do it differently. And I don't think that. Anybody. Who's a creative. Should be telling anyone. Like. There is a certain way. They should be doing it.

[01:24:36] There's no golden rule. That's gatekeeping. Like you said. Yes. Let's avoid gatekeeping. Please. Yeah. And. Like you say. It also takes out the fun. If I only do it this way. What's the point? You know. Like. At the end of the day. You know. Like. With the micromanagers. Unless they're really. Really insecure. Or want a promotion. They don't really care. How something gets done. As long as it gets done. But at the same time.

[01:25:05] With something like that. You run the risk of just. Becoming a mindless. Production factory. Instead of. One with a soul. One with a clock still ticking. So it is kind of. Yeah. That fine balance of. It's like. Look at my deadline. And how close the watches get. You know. Ticking. And at the same time. It's like. I'm going to. All that stuff I've listed on my calendar. I'm going to do. A third of that. Because I found a different way. I want to do. This. And it's.

[01:25:35] Going to progress more naturally. And. Mentally. Rewarding. Right. And. I feel like. Once you establish yourself. You know. With. With having a resume. That works with. A lot of. Multi. Million dollar. And. And companies. And. And you establish yourself. As creator. Later.

[01:26:06] The door will always be open for you. Yes. Whichever path you decide to take. The definite. Definitely. Because. It's. It's like you've given your body. Permission to just like. Take its guard down a bit. Kind of like. You know. I'm not on the edge. I'm not. On the defense. Just like. When you're in listening mode. And note taking mode. You're.

[01:26:36] There's ways to make that be fun. As well as. Like. Getting the details. In a more natural way. To where it makes sense to you. Like. My father would always quiz me. Each time I was coming home from a college class. Is like. Okay. You learned something. Like. You passed the class. But did you learn it? And I was like. Well. That's a good question. I'd say. Maybe. Half of those college courses. I just did the work. Because. I didn't see. What it had to offer me.

[01:27:06] Some of those. I definitely implemented. Because I need them to get better at what. I'm trying to craft. In my. Work. And day-to-day lifestyle. Do I have regrets. Looking back at it? Yes. There's probably. Two out of those ten classes. I wish I had taken better notes. Because I would have. Honestly. You know. Just. Gotten way more. And. But. That was also inevitable. I still had to. Fail.

[01:27:36] To learn. And that's the other thing. And guys are the worst. I will tell you this. As a man to a woman. Guys hate. Failing. And it's like. Well. How else do you learn? You have to fail. In order to learn. So. The law of experience. It's like. You have to. You have to fail. In order to learn. But. This has been a delight. Talking with you also. Because like. You. You're making. All. Stuff that should be secondary.

[01:28:06] Just make better sense again. If that makes sense. But you're also. Just. Reflecting on it. In a more natural way. And it's like. You know. If only that were the case. With more. Of our peers. It's like. How do we get everyone. To just kind of just. Bring your guard down. And just kind of. Be even more flexible. Be even more just. Blindly try a few things. Like. And it's funny. We brought up food. I see so many.

[01:28:36] They. They're like. I've never liked that kind of food. It's like. Well. You've never tried it with this mashup. This might be better. No. No. I would never put that on a pizza. Or on a cake. It's like. Well. Just try it once. So at least you can say. You did it. Well. I know it's going to be bad. That's. That's the biggest pushback I get. Well. I know it's going to suck. How? You haven't tried it that way yet. Well. It's just always let me down. It's like. You know. You better have tried this method. Or. 500 combos. At least 20 times.

[01:29:06] Before just. Giving someone pushback. And. It's cool that you got all these. You've been allowed to try these ideas. Own the ideas. And then. Again. Everyone's thanking each other. Because they're. They're like. Hey. You've helped me become a better musician. You've helped me become a better assistant photographer. Gaffer. Entertainer. Hopefully you encounter someone who says. You've helped me become a better chef. Oh yeah.

[01:29:36] Definitely. There's. There's a lot of different. Businesses. That do follow. My Instagram. So like local businesses. Within my area. Like different delis. Restaurants. And. Like hotels. Even follow. My Instagram. Just for like my daily. You've had some great photographs. Localized community. And. Yeah. Photographs. And documentation. That I've been creating over the years. And I think it's a big ode. Um.

[01:30:06] To. To. How much I respect. And love my own community. And I think that's a big. Important aspect. Is. Becoming a creator. You have to. Make that connection. With your community. In order to thrive. Bingo. Thriving. Thriving. Thriving. We've hit on that. Being comfortable. Even making the uncomfortable. Be comfortable. Like. Again. You don't have control. Every. Every venue. I remember. I was scouting.

[01:30:35] A few different events. And. What made it. Infuriating. Was mainly. Just the other people. Who were like. This is not what we were promised. It's like. Well. That's okay. We're going to only be here. For two hours. And then get out of here. But you're making this feel. Like ten hours. Because you won't stop. Complaining about this. And you're ruining it. It's hard to. Create the. The creative light bulb. If all you're hearing. Is just. This sucks. Well. You've just brought down. The house.

[01:31:05] Of any other positives. That were there. You know. It's. It really is amazing. When people. Who we like. Or don't like. Have a bad. Habit. Of wanting to. Just say their out loud voice. It's like. You know. I would rather you do. Another different. Way of just venting. I'm not. Don't tell me how to act. Not telling you how to act. But I am telling you. You are impacting us. And I don't. I was fortunate enough. In college.

[01:31:34] To get rid of cynicism. I was just like. I just had a mechanism. Where I wanted to make a joke. And that was irritating. Other people. In a glass blowing class. And I said. I just. Went over to the side. And said. You know what? You're right. I need to shut up. I'm sorry. I'm just using this. As a coping mechanism. I can clearly see it. As bothering. The two of you. What can I do. To bring it. And what. Can you do. To help me. Just kind of. Just flush out. Negative energy. That's not supposed to be negative energy. But it's clearly just.

[01:32:04] Angering you. And I don't want that. I don't want to be the. In-person internet troll. You know. What can we do. To just kind of just. Vent. Get rid of that junk. You know. Right. There's always a critic. Out there. Always. But I think. The. It is more of a. A reflection on them. That they're never satisfied. With what is put out. And if they don't like. What they see.

[01:32:33] They can go create it themselves. And that's a lot of. The world today. Is. If you want to be such a critic. Then you go do it. There you go. That's actually how we. We did this podcast thing. I was doing it with two friends. Don't worry. I talked to them over there. They're great friends. We weren't jiving. As podcast hosts. And I was going to their. House in person. To record and everything. And so I said. You know what? I've been a whiny. You know what? This whole time. I need to just do this myself. And just.

[01:33:03] Try out my method. Because. Otherwise it sounds like. I'm just the insecure guy. In the corner. And. It's been a payoff. I've created so many friendships. That. Have been really mentally healing for me. It's kind of been the second. A resurrection. If you will. It's like. When you try a job. Or try out for other stuff. And it just doesn't come to fruition. Then you fall out of certain stuff. Where you're like. I can't. Make this. Be balanced out. As both my day job. And.

[01:33:33] As my income earner. And also as just. The thing that makes me most happy. Then. You have to also. Balance that out too. And. Some people. Find other methods. They're like. Hey. I'm just going to work two jobs. Like. Well. That's good for a while. But. You're going to have to commit to one. Versus two. Over time. You know. Right. Exactly. And. It's already a balancing act. When you got. Friends. If you're married. Same deal. It's got to give. All the time to.

[01:34:02] Your kids. And your spouse. I. Vision is really what matters. Vision. Yes. See. This is so much. Don't let it die. Don't let the vision die. I. And. I. Do you ever do any meditating? You seem very spiritual. Yes. Yes. I have done a lot of meditating in my time. Um.

[01:34:31] And a lot of different like. Um. Spiritual. Where I take like a certain herb. And would put it in a. Specific shell. Spiritual shell. I love it. Burn the. Burn the herb. It's. And you would use a feather. To wax it on your aura. To cleanse your aura. And down. Um. So I think like. Everybody does have an aura. And. And spirituality. Frequencies. Even the ones who deny themselves.

[01:35:02] Definitely come into play. Yeah. Yeah. Um. I mean. It's. Everything's a frequency. It is a frequency. It's even wilder when you realize. Whoa. Hey. It's just. There's frequency. And then there's. Uh. Just. Gathering information. You didn't realize what this. Was a thing. Uh. There was one time where. The meditation kind of helped me realize. Wow. That bad dream I had.

[01:35:31] I accidentally mistook as a. Memory. That never happened. Yeah. Why did that negative. And. In some cases positive. But blinding. Energy. Not make me see clearly. And it's just like you. Uh. And I. I can't recommend counseling enough. Just. Go see a counselor one day. And. Realize. Without fail. You'll open up a portal. For lack of better terminology. It's like you'll realize. Whoa. I made this one thing be a big deal.

[01:36:00] That wasn't a big deal. I need to stop being that melodramatic person. Oh yeah. Definitely. Like meditation. Is. Definitely helps you. Like reflect on who you are. As well as creating. Creating can be therapeutic as well. Different creative outlets. As well as. Light therapy is really good. Yes. For. You're resetting your. With the red glasses. Your body. Yeah.

[01:36:29] So light therapy is really good. Music. Different frequencies. Do help. And there is like. Like. Certain. Certain therapeutic healing. Healing that comes with that. As well as you know. Crystals hold different frequencies. So there's so much out there. That is considered healing. That people. I feel like. They don't even know. Exists. Even the everyday kind of stuff. Is like. You'll see some.

[01:36:59] Who will acknowledge it. Is like. Oh. Like. This you can use to. Make your trip to work easier. This. You can use. This ingredient. In your food. That is also. Healing. Will. Make it not only taste better. But. It's just another ingredient. That'll change. Improve your mood.

[01:37:29] It's like. Yeah. Why wouldn't you want to do that? Yeah. Journaling is really good too. Journaling. Yeah. Like for. Is it just like. And it's got to be written. Clear everything out. And reset. Like. Something that you can write on your phone. But. Kind of like. Yeah. Kind of like. When you're studying for a test. You're only going to remember it. If you speak it aloud. And. Write it down. That is the only. Is the oldest trick of the book. For a reason. You know. Like. It will.

[01:38:01] It will get it done. And. Yeah. Yeah. Journaling is definitely. A therapeutic source. Outlook. And. You know. Looking into that. Like whole wellness vibe. There are people out there. Like. Proactive. Like speakers. That you could definitely look into. That like. Like YouTube inspires. That. Promote like wellness. And. And like better living. And. And I feel like that's.

[01:38:30] That's a good aspect. And an important thing. To have in life. As well as. You know. Not only looking at your own. Creative outlook. But. But promoting. Outlooks like that. As well. To incorporate into your own life. And share with other people. That's the other thing too. Choosing what to share. What not to share. Is like. You still got to share it all. If you don't want to share it. With that particular person. Still. Please share it. Like. It can be a co-worker. You trust.

[01:39:00] Who's. And that's the other thing too. You can choose. If you want to personalize it. This person's my brother. Or sister from another. Mother. Or they're just. They're just a spirit animal. They're just a good person. Their personality aside. And that's their thing too. But like. If you don't share it. Indirectly. It will build up. And many will just still be like. No. No. I got to keep this secret. To my. Grave. It's like. Well. Unless you're a government goon. You should share this. You know. This is like. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:39:30] Communication is key. Communication. Intent. And. I. I can only stress. And this should go for anyone. Whether you're a manager. Whether you're. A creative director. Don't state everything. The exact same way. Every time. State. Say it so many different ways. Eventually that'll click. Right. And the way you created it. Do everything a certain way. So it cannot be replicated. I believe in that. Like.

[01:40:00] Your own technique. And the way that you create. The style that you create with. Make sure that it. It cannot be replicated. Like when you build your dialogue. That's the most important thing. Dialogue. And. That honestly goes for everything. It's like. Uh. Like making your email. Like. For beginning the contract. Or opening up a discussion. Is like. That's the most. Creaky thing.

[01:40:30] Setting a good impression. Before we even. Continue. Even any further. You know. Right. Break the ice. In the best way you can. I'm gonna make sure there's no. The best photos. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure the email is professionally crisp. Before you send it. Proofread it. I can't even remember how we met. Make sure your. Your resume is attached. However we met. It was definitely on Instagram. But it was definitely one of those. It's like. I just got a good vibe. Like this person has a story.

[01:40:59] I don't know what I. Came across as. But hopefully it was. Awesome. But yeah. I'm just glad you reached back out. You gotta pick the right ones. Oh totally. We found each other. And it. It definitely. Like I said. It's a connection. And you know. Like whoever watches. And utilizes your channel. Will now watch. And utilize my channel as well. And it's. It's a lucrative. Ever flowing inspiration. And I admire that.

[01:41:29] Thank you for having me. I'm glad. We made time for this. And really. This was healing. Like. Yeah. Just even the setup. To the chat. Like you're going back and forth. I'm going back and forth. It's like. Yeah. Let's do this. Do we want a bigger chat? It's been a long time too. Because. I feel like I haven't been on your show. In a few years. And I. A lot of clarity since then. It's definitely a revelation. Yeah. But it's good to be back. We're both back at it.

[01:41:59] And. We're doing our thing again. In a whole new way. It has to be in a whole new way. That's the other thing too. Is like. It. Even if you. Don't want to have. Different equipment. Different. Ways of doing things. It's like. Yeah. You want to still approach stuff differently. You still want to. Just. Go blindly. On other cool adventures. It's like. You know. That's really neat. And. Generally. What blows our minds. Is when. Everyone ultimately.

[01:42:29] Wants the same thing. And that's tough to relate. To some people. Because they're often going. Well. I'm not into that. I don't do sports. Or I don't like to mountain climb. Or it's like. Well. But what do they ultimately. Want. Is hanging out with cool people. With need interest. And everything. That's overall. The exact same. If not method. Goal. And so. I think that's the other. Cool thing to break down. Is when you have to kind of. Relate stuff to people. And it's like. Hey. They. They want the exact same thing. You want. What do you mean?

[01:43:00] Happiness. Yeah. That everyone. And they just. Don't know how to express it. Or voice it in the right way. That. But they're arguing it. But what do I know? Everyone wants the same thing. But. But what do I know? I know people. Who want to live. Just. Very unhappily. And it's like. Well. Why? Why would you? Yeah. Every. Everybody's a critic. But. No one wants to critique themselves. So.

[01:43:30] You know. And I think it's important. To self-reflect. That's one of the most important things. To do in life. Is to reflect on how you act. How you can improve. How you can do better. As a creator. And how you can change the world. With your voice. I love it. And voices are definitely key. Because. Yeah. Like you say. Don't. Soullessly. Integrate yourself. Into any profession. You know. I. I've had to quit so many jobs.

[01:43:59] Where I was asked to be a supervisor. And it's like. Yeah. I'm not respected here. Everyone's going to ultimately. Just rely on. The manager. To kind of just come in. And just. Actually get anything done. You got to get rid of any toxicity. Like that. When it's. Comes down to that. You know. And. You got to win certain battles. And by battles. I don't mean. Like I'm conquering. It's like. No. This is a problem. That's. Invading everyone's life. This needs to be. Rid of. This.

[01:44:30] But. Not everything can be solved. With like. A medicine potion. You know. It's like. We all got to take a big step back. From this. And it's going to take more than just. Walk this off. Or. De-stress this way. It's like. No. How about. Uh. At any time. I want to implement even changes. In any setting. As like. No. I'm going to come back. And leave a giant list. And even if. They don't give this. The moment of time or day. Uh. To read this. At least. I can live with the fact that.

[01:44:59] I tried to clear the air. You know. And. It seems very neat. That you. Integrate. You've gotten better at problem solving. Also. So I just. Want to. Thank you for that. Because like. That's an underage skill. Also. It's like. Hey. I don't have the best lighting. Or. Way to take a photo. I'm going to. Move to a different location. Or. I'm going to make another request. For this band. Hey. Can you give me. This extra detail. To prepare. You know. It's already. Yeah. It's all trial and error.

[01:45:28] Everything I've ever done. Um. Was a learning experience. For me. Through and through. Um. It's not fun. And games. You know. You're not like everybody else. In the crowd. Enjoying the show. It's. You got to take it seriously. Obviously. But like you said. There is points. Where you need to take breaks. As a creative. And people do burn out. And your craft. Always needs to be respected. Because you're the one putting it out.

[01:45:56] And if you let yourself burn out on both ends. You're going to burn out. You got to respect yourself enough. To make the right. And that's the other thing too. Is like. What is right. It's like. Well. How it feels. How it sounds. If it's not agreeable. Is it workable. I've done that too. Where someone's given me a business pitch. Or even a. They're writing something. For like a novel or something. You're like. What do you think? I'm like.

[01:46:26] Well. It's really not clear to me. But I'm not going to be unhelpful. And say. Well. Interesting. Because interesting can go in so many ways. That can be me being polite. But I don't think it's. That great. Or it's fine. But it's confusing. It's like. No. I'm. I think what you have is workable. You got to just. Try the raw idea. Just. Put it out. And see where it lands. And. It seems like.

[01:46:56] You'll. You'll be there. Anywhere. Anytime of day. You're going to. We got this beach in the zoom background. But it's like. Yeah. But. So. Ladies and gents listening. Putting photographer. Or so. On top of a skyscraper. She's going to find a way. To make this be more than just a skyscraper. Oh yeah. By method or design. That's by. Wanting to. Stand out. That's her signature. And we all. There's a will. There's a way. There's a will. There's a way.

[01:47:26] But also. At the end of the day. You know. It's. People like to call. Something like this. Self-loathing. It's not self-loathing. Just want to try out. Something different. Because after a while. We get tired of saying. Seeing the same thing. Or we look. I mean. I did. I once did a self-portrait. For. For a. A. Painting class. And I threw it away. Five years after the fact. It wasn't that I hate myself. I was like. I. No.

[01:47:56] I'm not happy with that artwork. I don't. I just own that. I'm going to try something else like that. Down the road. But it was also just taking up space. And people were like. Oh. How could you hate yourself? I was like. Because. I just own that artwork. I don't want anyone to see that. I don't like that. Don't tell your art teacher you did that. Oh. He didn't like me anyway. But. Oh. I was asking too many questions. And it was irritating him. And I was like. Well. I just want to get better. But it was a learning experience. For you to throw it away. And it probably gave you. The incentive.

[01:48:25] To build something better. Yes. And different formats. And everything. And. Now. My father did gather up. These old. Painting caricatures. And I wasn't looking forward to it. But I was glad I looked at it. It was like. I'm not going to do artwork like that. But that's very learning. As a building block. As to where you come from. So I think this is the other thing too. You have to use. Indirect. Inexplicable ways. That sometimes. Don't even merit explaining. It's like. I'm going to try this. So like.

[01:48:54] I'm sure you do this with your computer. You're like. I'm going to clear out all this stuff. On the desktop. Just because this is all clutter. Like this. What is this doing here. In between all my edited projects. Right. And I want to have a separate folder for. These are my masterpieces. These are going in this folder. But I'm not even going to use the word masterpiece. Because that sounds tacky. Or ego headed. That's just. The stuff I'm proud of. It's going here. You know. Right. Whenever I get. But I do like how you just. Take away. The challenge. The conquering sounding thing. It's like.

[01:49:24] This isn't about winning. This is about losing either. It's about. It's almost like. I'm in a jet. And I'm firing a missile. But it's not about destroying anything. It's making an impact of color. And rhythm. That comes from that explosion. Like. It's just. It's stupid. Yeah. It sounds tacky and pretentious sometimes. But it's like. Just want to. When you fill up a hot air balloon. I don't want it to explode. I also don't want it to just drift off. And get lost in the shuffle. I want it to just kind of. Be like a blimp.

[01:49:53] It's on everyone's radar. Kind of. Right. So I do feel like as a creative. It is important to. You know. You. You want your work to stand out. You want to like your work. You want to accept your work. But don't be too conceited about it. And then. Don't be conceited. Don't become competitive. And take the compliment. Take the compliment. Take the compliment. Someone will like something you have disowned.

[01:50:22] It will happen. And you'll be like. You know. I'm glad I entertained you for two hours. And if the work is good. It will be said that it's good. You'll be told it's good work. So you don't have to doubt yourself. Because I am one of those people. That is such a perfectionist about my own work. People could tell me 20,000 times. It's excellent work. But I'll find something about it. That I don't like. Into it. Or the personal story.

[01:50:52] And angst that is associated with it. Where. Oh well. I'm glad you liked that photograph. That. Yeah. Drummer was hammered. And wouldn't come out. And stand straight for. So. That 20 minute shoot. Became a five hour shoot. Glad you liked it. This guy almost spilled some beer on me. In the crowd. You know. But I got it. But I got the right moment. I'm laughing about it. And telling the tale. And the evolution becomes. You know. I feel like. That's a big evolution.

[01:51:21] And who I've become as a creative. And independent creative. Is. I started out. In the local music venues. In the radio stations. With the collectives. With the magazines. And everything. But I'm ending up now. As a creative director. And everything is becoming a film. So. It's a big pivot. Within my own life. To find my own discovery. I need to introduce you to my mother. She used to do photojournalism. For the Star Telegram. And.

[01:51:50] She would totally share. A lot of your stories. In that. Half the time. You're. As the editor. You're just taking out. The. The dents in the armor. The. The. Poorly crafted garden. And making it shine. Making it. Exotic. You know. You're having to do. So many different things. Just to make it stand out. And. Half the time. You're looking at the. Famous. Writer. Or. Celebrity. Who you're featuring. And you're. You're. Beautifying them. It's like.

[01:52:20] Man. They're really. Hackneyed. Behind the scenes. Talent and all. You know. But I'm making them shine. Making them better. And we can all. Own this. And say. I worked on that. I'm. Right. Erasing the negative buildup. To the perfection. And. She was a good teacher. She downplays it. Because she was at a terrible school. But it's like. No. You got to. Even if no one. Met you years later. Saying. Thank you for getting me into photojournalism. It's like. Hey. You. You left your mark in some capacity. People.

[01:52:50] Like. Working with you. You owned your craft. And you created your story. And you left your impact. It's. It's for the audience. To pick it up. And perceive it. How they would like. I love it. Please come back. In some other capacity. We'll get you on some other round table. Oh yeah. There's. There's plenty more. For me to create. And plenty more to come. Definitely. And I will. I'm excited to share all of it. And definitely. I would love to come back again. I. I promised to invite you to one of these conventions.

[01:53:21] Yes. Yes. I would love to come to a convention. Yeah. All ideal. Ideal minds. Any way we can brainstorm. This is all a positive influence. Especially. With everything that is thrown out into this world today. Anything we can contribute that's. That's inspirational. Is an impact. Mr. So. Don't ever stop being you. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. For the invite. And again. Just picking each other's brains.

[01:53:51] But it went beyond that. It went beyond just. Basque in the positivity. And. Yes. Deflate the so-called trying to be cool. And. Like you say. Own your work. That's all you can do. Own your work. And own your purpose. You can have a method. Is the way of life. You can have a method. But there doesn't need to be a madness. And if there is. You can still put a positive spin on it. Right. Thank you again. Thank you. This really meant a lot. Exactly the kind of positivity. We need to just share with others.

[01:54:20] Follow us on the web. On Facebook. Twitter. And Instagram. The podcast is available on. Podbean. Spotify. iHeart Radio. Anchor. Apple. And anywhere else. Podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show. And leave comments. On any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening.