Interview with Actress-Dancer Morgana Shaw

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[00:00:59] We root for the underdog on shows like this, and lo and behold, I have a new exclusive podcast interview for those listening, and that is with actress Morgana Shaw. Hey.

[00:01:10] Man, you have accumulated some serious credits. I definitely had seen you on Salem and Prison Break, but man, you're never not working. You lived in Dallas, but I actually didn't know you held at ballet dancing prior to this. That's pretty cool. Well, it wasn't exactly ballet. Not ballet.

[00:01:33] I take it, but I am a professional dancer. That's kind of how I got my start, and it was more jazz, funk. I love it. Yeah, modern is where I – but I've had my share of the ballet training because you have to have that. But that is – I am not – I would never consider myself a ballet dancer. Neither were the other ballet dancers.

[00:01:58] I misspoke, but you can see her lately in some of the sports movies like the history of golf drama, the long game, as well as American Underdog, the football movie by Lionsgate. But yeah, I mean, you've done a lot of stage work. I didn't know that you were previously based in New York. We moved to New York about a year ago. Oh, okay. Sweet. But I've been working back in Texas.

[00:02:24] I just shot like two films in Texas since I moved here. Oh, that's great. That's great. And they haven't come out yet. But yeah, New York is wonderful. I'm finishing up a play, a world premiere of a play that this weekend we close, and I head back to New York on the 30th. What play is it?

[00:02:52] It's Mama Won't Die. It's a world premiere directed by Del Shores. It's fantastic. I'm so honored. Patti Pell, who wrote the play with her daughter. Do you know Patti? I don't know Patti, but I know the name. Okay. Patti Pell and Lori Pell Grigsby wrote it. That is her daughter.

[00:03:15] So it's a mother-daughter play, but it's her based on her story with her 108-year-old mother who wouldn't die. And that's why it's called Mama Won't Die. And when Patti started this journey, I did the stage reading for it two years ago. I think it was about two years ago. And, oh God, it was so good. So funny.

[00:03:44] Not how you usually look at a play with family dysfunction and your mother being 108 years old and not dying. But Patti is incredible with her writing. She puts humor into something that I think not a lot of people, you know, do when it comes to something like that.

[00:04:12] I mean, Del Shores is very good at it, too. He really understands the humor in a lot of Southern women and their plays and their family history and dysfunction. And he, you know, it's in such incredible hands and it's been a wonderful experience. But when Patti asked me to be a part of it, she told me she always had me in mind as she was writing it as playing. Oh, that's cool.

[00:04:42] So, yeah. Shucks. That means a lot. It does. And she did all the work. She, I'm an equity actor. And, you know, I know they were really wanting to go all non-equity. But Patti really fought for me. And I'm really, I'm proud that I got to be a part of the world premiere and to bring it to life. And it's getting great reviews. And it's funny. And it's selling out every weekend. We've been sold out.

[00:05:12] We've still got seats for Friday and Saturday night. It's playing at Bryant Hall at Kalita Humphries. So, it's exciting. It's exciting to see. Patti is, I think she's 81. She might be 81. I've definitely seen her in some of this indie stuff. Definitely. That's going to show her. Yeah. She's wonderful. She's a quirky, wonderful actress. And now a wonderful playwright.

[00:05:41] And, of course, Dale Shores. Under his incredible, brilliant directing. It's just, it's been a wonderful experience. With some great actors. And so. That's good. I'm excited. Yeah. With all your friends of different calibers. Of fame and fortune. What do you kind of take away from the most?

[00:06:10] Aside from just being blessed to work and everything. Like, have you really. Has anyone ever shared like pointers on how they're getting better? How they're doing performances different? How they're mastering auditions? You know what? I'm always studying and learning from others. Working with. I've worked with some incredible people. And I'm so. This past year, especially. I will tell you. Someone that just blew me away.

[00:06:41] In her generosity. In her kindness. In watching her work. Because I worked with her on a movie. That has not come out yet. Called 11 Days. Her name is Ray Sehorne. You might have seen her in Pluribus. Oh, yeah. That's. Yeah. Well. That's Kim from Better Call Saul. Yeah, we just. Yes. And Better Call Saul. Yes. That is. What an incredibly generous actress she is. I watched her work right up close.

[00:07:09] Because we spent a little over three weeks together. Shooting 11 Days. In Huntsville, Texas. And. Watching her. Collaborate with the director. Speaking up for. The other actors. I mean, everybody. It just. The generosity that she gave. As an actress. To. It was. It was so. Inspiring. That's the word I'm looking for. Inspiring. And helpful.

[00:07:39] And I'm always learning. I'm fascinated. That's good. When you're doing. A lot of intense roles. And emotional roles. It's. And. Which is very hard. It being in a setting like that. When you're doing something very intense. Which 11 days. Was a lot of intensity. And. That's what we look for. In a role. Kind of. Oh. It's going to be amazing. I mean. It's. All star. Jason Isaac. Lola Kirk. Yeah.

[00:08:09] John Gallagher Jr. I mean. Taylor. It's. It's. Full of. Beautiful. Fabulous. Amazing actors. And. I'm. Blessed. I've been a part of it. Yeah. Sweet. So. I'm always learning. I hope that answers your question. No. That's. I. It's a constant. It never stops. I definitely. Don't know. Everything. And.

[00:08:38] That's why. It's so exciting. Because. Every project. Is different. You learn. You learn a lot. And one of the things. Sometimes you learn. Is what you won't do. What you won't. You know. You. You. You go. Okay. I now know how that works. So. That's probably. I won't put myself in that position again. You know. You learn that. Through. Working. Different people. Too. So. Sweet. The main thing. I think.

[00:09:08] You want. Is to always want to work. With people. Who want to work. With you. Yes. And just. Don't play games. It's like. This is work. That's exactly right. But. Yes. We're here to work. We're here to work together. Let's be professionals. And. And I've. I've been blessed to have. Incredible. Experiences. With films. I just finished another film. That. Came to me. In New York.

[00:09:38] But I shot it in Texas. In Austin. Very excited about it. Called Price of Redemption. And. Yeah. Look for that one too. It's. Very special. And dear to my heart. So. Powerful story. True story. I loved. True stories. I love. Real people. I. I really do. It's. It's exciting. To try to bring. Someone's essence. To life. And honor that essence. And.

[00:10:08] I love. You know. There's so much. Homework you can do. And find. You don't have to make it up. You can take that. And you can look at those people. And you can go. I want to honor you. I never want to dishonor you. Present you. In a light. That. Would not be correct. You know. Totally. You don't want to. Invalidate anything. You also don't want to. Play to the camera. Or. And you know. The most. When. What's really.

[00:10:38] A shock to so many. I find. I find. Is when. You tell people. Hey. You know. Let's go above the script. It's like. Well. We got just the script. Like. No. We don't have just the script. We also have our imagination. I can say this line. A little differently. Make that. Land a little harder. We can stage this differently. So we avoid predictability. We can still have some suspense. That the script didn't provide. You know. There's so many different ways. To film this. And. It's also so. Isn't it interesting. How. When people are pitching. And. When.

[00:11:09] You're developing stuff. Let alone doing a table read. When. People ask. You know. What do you think? You know. Sometimes you have to give. Just a neutral answer. It's like. Well. I think you have something. I don't really know what it is. Particularly myself. It's like. It could still. It might need one more draft. Before. Really packs a punch. Or we might find it in the editing room. I don't know. So. Would you. Describe yourself. As kind of a problem solver. With just anything. Just like. That's provided. Yes.

[00:11:39] Absolutely. I am totally a problem solver. I mean. I. I'm always. Always looking. How do we. How do we make this happen? Not. Oh. I can't do that. Oh. But. That doesn't work. Or. That is never the answer. In this industry. And matter of fact. You're going to work more. When you learn. Not to say that. And you learn. To really. Look at. Okay. How can I make this happen? People are going to want to work with you.

[00:12:08] Because you're open. You have to be open. You have to. Listen to the director. Listen. Your director. Is your. He's the visionary. Yes. He is the guide. He sees you. Whether you're on stage. Or. In. Front of the camera. He. He's the only one. I can trust. And. And. On the cinematographer. The director of photography. He also. They will tell you. Just. That was a slightly bad angle. Can you just.

[00:12:37] Do that slightly this way. That was great. They can. The camera doesn't lie. So if you're not. In it. The camera sees everything. That we might not have been. Intended. But it's all we got. Do your homework. And. Reopen. And. There's always. Issues. And problems. That come up. That's what I learned from Ray. Ray is such a problem solver. She's been in the industry. A long time. And that. And she's also a theater person. So that's. She.

[00:13:07] She's done her homework. She comes in prepared. Um. It was really wonderful to get. To know her. Because. She's down to earth. And. And very giving. And very present. And then. The other film. That I just finished. Price of Redemption. The director. Andrew. Sheba. Andrew. Sheba. Was. He wrote it. And directed it. And. He. Was a major collaborator. He.

[00:13:37] We collaborated on so many things. Um. That's good. And that. Yeah. He trusted us. As actors. See. Now it's a great day at work. That's also casting. So you. It. What happens if you get someone. Who's not a good collaborator. Then. Then. There are problems. So. You've been on ensembles. You've been on stuff where you were just a one scene. Versus. Five scene. So.

[00:14:07] And I. I watched. And eat it up. Yeah. I watched those actors and eat it up. What do you. What do you. Hitman. Yeah. Richard Linklater. And Glenn Powell. Oh my god. You got to share a scene with the leads. So. Yeah. I had so much fun with them. I need your collaborator. Incredible to work with. And so I think that's the best part of your career also is you've had the opportunity to do so much diversity. Yes.

[00:14:34] I actually own one of these shows on DVD. You did a little known miniseries called to serve and protect back in the 90s. Yes. Oh my god. It's a good show. But most people have seen your work that they have seen. You know. Second End Lines. American Outlaws. Home Fries. Those were big hits. And you were key characters. And. But. Was just the casting departments way more diverse back in the day.

[00:15:04] Like just because it seems like now you get a lot of I don't know what they want. I keep getting callbacks for a callback. Which kind of defeats the purpose of me. Well I think our industry has changed a lot Cameron. It's more competitive. Yeah. We're in a different time than the way back with Second Hand Lines. And those. You went in. You went in personally. And you saw the director. Most everything that I. They had the final say. Yeah.

[00:15:34] Most everything that I'm cast in now is either direct offer or. Or it is by tape. And. That's cool. And Zoom. So. Zoom. Big time. For 11 days. My callback was through Zoom. For Hitman. I had a Zoom with Richard and Glenn Powell. And. And I. I was in.

[00:16:02] I was at the beach in Florida. So. I did it on the beach. At my hotel. It was hilarious. That's great. You. I mean. So in a way. You can be anywhere now. But it is a different. The industry has shifted. And it. It is harder. In some ways. And in some ways. It's. It's. More. More people are. Able to be seen. Because of. Tapes. And things. If you can get. If you can get to that next.

[00:16:33] Round. That next level. Yeah. So. Would you say you navigate it. Kind of like the minotaur maze. Where you're just like. Yeah. It's. It's every person for their self. You know. It's. It's the game of life. You know. I mean. It is. It is a personal thing. I. I don't believe there's a right. And a wrong way to do it. That's. I thank you. You're the fifth person who said that. Because that's the other thing too. Is like there's. Other than the main standard. Which is. Directors don't tell actors how to act. They suggest a change. Same thing. Actor doesn't tell the director.

[00:17:03] You're not cut out for this. Whoa. Whoa. You know. It's like. It's non-confrontational. You have the do's and don'ts. People who know. Know. Yeah. But yeah. It's a. It is. It is. It's a. Everybody has. I mean. I definitely. When I was going by the book. When I started in my career. And I was trying to do everything right. And everything that everybody told me. To book a role. And get the part. Because I knew this is what I wanted to do. I didn't book.

[00:17:32] I started working. When I got mad. Because I was trying to please everybody. And that wasn't working. That's impossible. Some people. They're stubborn or won't give. They're not receptive. They won't give it back. Anything back. Well. In our industry. As you know. People want to. They. They want. Tend to want to put you in a box. Oh. You're this type. Yeah. My thing is. I'm not. I'm a chameleon. And I always knew I was a chameleon.

[00:18:02] Hence the point of acting. You don't limit me. I look different on everything. And that is on purpose. Because that's what I know. Oh. I can. So I love bringing. I love becoming. Somebody. Okay. What is it you're looking for? And. You know. Find that thing. And put it in. And a good agent. If your agent knows what you can do. And you have good headshots. The headshots are important. It's very important. That if you have different looks. That make you.

[00:18:31] Like I have my country look. I have a. You know. You can do that. Yeah. You have to have those looks. So that. You know. I have a badass look. So that I shot with a wonderful photographer. Stassi. In LA. It's important that you keep that updated. And that if. As your looks change. You can put that out there. And you can be submitted to different roles. Because you have it. Your agent can put it out there. Because you look like it.

[00:19:01] And then they're going to look at you. He's got. He's given you a chance. Yeah. That's right. I had actually seen a lot of your work before. And after. Like just. You. You've been in so many big. Just large scale things. Like I've seen the. Psychological mystery. The final. That was streaming a lot. Back in the day. Yeah. And you've. Yeah. You've been able to navigate a lot of just. Everything. Network TV. Like NBC and CBS. And then. On to Lifetime. And streaming. But. How would you say they.

[00:19:31] Speaking of marketing actors. How would you say they market the shows. Giving. Hence. An extra chance for some of these opportunities. Differently. Um. I'm not sure I understand the question. How would you say they market the shows. And. Make some of the casting calls kind of apparent. Um. You mean. Let me. I want to be clear. Are you talking about marketing the show. Like. I just. Uh. Is it reaching out. To actors. Or. Uh. Yeah. So. I'll reword.

[00:20:01] That's my bad. So. Basically. Just. Start from the top. And just like. Why do you think. There's just more wide. Variety of these shows. Because like. It used to be. We're only taking people from this state. Or this section. Or from this casting agency. Okay. Because. The industry has changed. Because of self-tapes. Because. Self-tapes. And zoom. You can. Submit from anywhere. Everywhere. And now. A lot of places.

[00:20:30] Won't cast the leads. Out of the. They'll still cast out of LA. Or New York. The leads. But they'll cast locally. And. I would say. To the extras. That are wanting to make a career. Of this. I mean. I started out. Doing extra work. And stand-in work. When I got started. And I highly recommend it. But I will tell you. Dallas is an incredible place. To get credits. And to build your career. From having nothing.

[00:20:59] Because there's lots of opportunity. I mean. Any place in Texas. That's shooting. The small towns. Georgia. Wherever it is. That they're shooting. A lot of local. That's a better place. To get a start. Than LA. And New York. If you don't have anything. Because in LA. And New York. That's all there is. Everybody's doing it. But. You have more. They're looking for it.

[00:21:28] And you could be. That little. You never know. When you get a one-liner. Yeah. That builds up. Into a character. That's what happened with Salem. I auditioned. For the main casting director. For Salem. Well. The local casting director. Came into Dallas. And I. She came into our agency. And. I was. One of the last ones. She put on tape. And. She had me read all these different scenes. So. I booked a role. That was one line.

[00:21:58] In the pilot. And from that. They. Built. My role. To become. A Mab. Who ran the brothel. I mean. That's a good opportunity. Because that's the other thing too. That's so wild. Is like. You don't know. If the role is going to be expanded. Or go from a guest. To a recurring guest. You know. Just. Treat it like. It's your life. And this is what I did. I owned where I was. And. I had one line. And I'm trying to remember what it was. It was.

[00:22:29] It was. I can't. I don't know the line either. And I'm just. I have to watch it. But it's in the pilot. And it was. I watched it and went. Okay. I can see why they like that. I can see why they. Kept bringing me back. And I became the. Madam. Of the brothel. Um. Um. I brought. Something to that. That. I didn't look at it as one line. Never look at it as one line. You don't know if they might ask for an improv. Just like. Follow it. Like.

[00:22:59] Saying something else. And make your own lifetime. Think about that character. And just go in and own it. You never know what can happen. Because even if you don't get. Something from that series. Those casting. You never know. The casting directors. And the director. There may be another project down the line. That they. You know. They're going. You know what. I love working with you. And I. You're right for this role. So. It's always good to do your homework. Totally. Every role.

[00:23:29] Even if it's one line. Treat it as. It's. You know. It has a life. You know. I bring life. That's. That's the challenge. I love that. And that's exciting to me. Bring. Life. Yeah. See. That's the highlight of the show. Bringing life. Superful. We all need it. Everybody needs it. Life and light. You know. Life and light. There you go.

[00:23:59] Oh. And. I. I had. One of your previous collaborators. John Keyes. On. He's a legit dude. He's done big. He's done small stuff. And. Now he gets to brag. I'm working with freaking Banderas. And John Malkovich. So it's like. See. You know. That doesn't happen overnight. And. No. He's also one that has worked. His. You know. Has worked hard. There. You know. An overnight success. My dad always said.

[00:24:28] I can't wait till you're an overnight success. Totally. Because that's not. You know. Nobody really is. They really. If you. What is success. You know. It might last two years. And then you got nothing. So that's the other thing too. I'm glad you're also hitting on the agents. And. The zoom tapes. And then just looking at all the opportunities. Because I think that's the other thing too. You see people who. They lucked out. They were in a role. And then they didn't take advantage of the moment. It's like. Okay. Now you got to be. You're.

[00:24:56] You're soaking in the success too long. You need to focus on the next move. You know. Treat it like a monopoly. Game. You know. Yeah. You got to go. I love the work. I'm. I am. One of the. And you got to want to work. And you want to. Stay hungry. It's a lot of. It's. To me. Like. I'm not one that. That plays while I'm working. But once we get it in the can. And once we. I mean. When we have a break. Or whatever. Then it's time to celebrate. But.

[00:25:25] If it's deep. Deep work. That. You know. I don't. I. I do the work. It's about getting. Then I feel like I can celebrate. You know. Because. I think the thing that I always think. And I try to follow. Is. And this is something. That I. I want to say. It was Steve Martin. That said this. Probably. Be. Be so good. They won't forget you.

[00:25:55] Oh snap. I love it. And. When you tell yourself that. That gives you permission. To do the work. And don't worry about what anybody's thinking. If you do the work. And it comes from a truthful place. And. Of course. You listen to the director. You're guided. And. You're. The visionaries. You're guided. You're guided. But. When you bring that to life. And you just do your best work.

[00:26:24] Then you don't leave the set. Second guessing. Anything you've done. Because you know you did your best work. And. Bingo. Nobody can. Nobody can take that away from you. Oh and. I. I could not say that better. Because. Yeah. You want to take away. Learning. And then you also don't want to cheat the moment. You also. Don't want. You want all of it to speak for itself. And. I like.

[00:26:52] I know how you're going back to the directors and cinematographers though too. Because like. Nowadays people like to just. Again go on. The negative draws them to a movie. It's like no. You should want to see it because someone tried something. It's like. If. Let's say the ship was partially sinking. The actors were on time. But the director was at a bad part of his life. So basically the first AD took over. You know. I shouldn't know about that until 20 years later. And if. That was seamless. Then.

[00:27:21] That was a pretty good crew. You know. So it's interesting how. People like to let one bad apple ruin it for them all. And it's like you know. If most everyone got the message. And tried their best to make a vision come across. You know. That's pretty good. There's been shows that have been rescued by their stars. Hiring different writers. You know. There's been. Well. I can tell you this too Cameron. Sure. If people are talking about. If somebody's poisoning the production. They're the bad apple in the corner.

[00:27:51] You're the bad apple. And they're probably not going to be work. Because they're probably. They probably have a tendency to do that. Yeah. The gift is. We get to do what we love. And it is a gift. Yeah. And you know. But. And that goes back to any job. Anyone who is being the. Describing dents in the road. Is often part of said dent. You know. Mm-hmm. It's true. It's true. But I mean.

[00:28:20] I find. I mean. Some of the hardest things. That I've worked on. Have been so worth it. Even though they were very difficult. Because of going to deep emotions. And. But that's part of the job. And that. That's what makes it. That's why I say. It was so collaborative. Working on 11 days. And Price of Redemption. Both incredible movies. That I'm looking forward to coming out. Because of the work.

[00:28:50] And the people that I worked with. And the stories. They're powerful stories. That need to be told. And. People. People need to be reminded. Of good things. That happened. Actually 11 days. Wasn't a good thing that happened. But it's something in history. That people need to know about. And. Price of Redemption. Is dealing with. You know. Coming back. PTSD. That's always going to be a story. That needs to be told. You know. That's right. And.

[00:29:19] I am like. But yeah. The overall point was just like. People like to focus on the negative. It's like. You know. If you want to see something. Go seek it out. You know. Don't be distracted by reviews. Don't be distracted by. What you heard in a tabloid. It's like. Go see it. Let it speak for itself. You know. Chaotic behind the scenes stories. Are not. What's in the can. There's always going to be that. Because there's always going to be. People that do that. And. But. Funding fell through. Something. You know.

[00:29:49] I mean. Here. Here's the thing. I always try. I go. Especially when I'm cast. Or. I'm auditioning for something. I don't go. I hope they like me. I go. I don't know. I hope I like you. Because I only want to work. I only want to work with. People who want to work with me. I only want to work with. Great people. Who are problem solvers. Who are excited about what they do. If you don't love what you do.

[00:30:19] Don't do it. Bingo. Oh man. And. Who can do better than that. You know. Because it's like. I see all these other stories. It's like. You know. You should have known. When it's not to be. Or you can treat it like any job. Where I'm going to just do my best. Even though no one's collaborating right now. Well. You. You get to bring the light. You get to be. You get that opportunity. By being confident. Going in. And.

[00:30:49] You were cast. Because. You were right for the role. You were cast. Because. You brought it. So don't go in. And then second guess yourself. Because of stuff going on. On set. And I'm guilty of it too. It's happened to me before. But. I have to remind myself. That's not. The problems. Those aren't my problems. And. It has nothing to do with me. What my job is. Is to bring my character to life. Do the work.

[00:31:19] And be confident with it. And I'm telling you. That gets you. A lot farther. Than. Being a problem. And going. Hey. Why are they doing that? And why. Don't. Don't. That's. Stay. Far away from those people. Right. You know. Because it's. It's not going to. End well. It's toxicity. We don't need. So yeah. Be. Be part of the solution. I love what I do. I love it so much.

[00:31:49] And. My husband tells me. You're a different person. When you're working. He said. You are. Bright. And happy. I'm not that I'm sad. And depressed. When I'm not working. But. You know. We all go through. Ups and downs. And after a while. If there's nothing in the burner. You kind of go. Oh. You know. But when I'm working. I. I feel. Purpose. Purpose. Yes. Yeah. Do you think how.

[00:32:19] That's. Kind of another deal. Everyone's so busy. Trying to make it. And it's just like. You still got to. Want to do this. And that is my purpose. You know. I think. I think. If you focus on negative. You're not going to go far. Yeah. But if. Because there's a lot of negative. Um. I mean. I've never understood anybody. Who counted auditions. Or counted jobs. Or anything. I couldn't tell you. How many movies I've done.

[00:32:49] Or how many movies. How many auditions I've had. That I didn't get. But there's plenty of them. I mean. People say. You work all the time. I do. But I also audition. There's a lot of things. That I've auditioned for. That I didn't get. That I do. It just. I don't put out. Any negativity. I don't put out. That I'm up for something. I don't talk about it. Usually. Until it's done. Because. Why? So many things can happen.

[00:33:19] And it's precious. My work is precious. And it's also precious. To the project. Usually. They don't want you. To talk about it. Unless they're wanting you. To promote it. And that's usually. When it's finished. So. You stay positive. But not by bragging. Not by putting it. Saying. I booked it. But. Let the work. Speak for itself. For me. That's what works. So. I definitely. Don't put down.

[00:33:50] That can use social media. To their. Advantage. To make that work. Um. I'm very. Limited. On the social media stuff. Because. It's sort of. Um. Some of it depresses me. Sometimes. And. And that's not good for me. And you're not letting it be a distraction. You should be using it to find. Other collaborators. Exactly. A simple compliment. In a post I'm tagged in. And move on. I use it for. Good things. And good things only. And anytime.

[00:34:19] It's anything else. I pull myself way back out of it. Until. I'm back on track. For only good. Because it's not worth it. Mm-hmm. I love it. Again. This is the positivity podcast. So you are. Excelling at that so far. Thank you. Do you. Did you have any. Uh. Actors. Who you were just very impressed at studying. As well as. Uh. Just. Uh. You grew up loving. And just. You kind of got inspired. By.

[00:34:49] Well. I can tell you. Who I was inspired by. Um. And. My dream role. Was. Um. When I was a little girl. And I didn't know. I was going to be an actress. I really didn't even know. About acting. I just knew. That. I watched the movie. Gypsy. Mm-hmm. And Natalie Wood. Her role in that. I related to so much. And I loved that movie so much. That I can remember. As a little girl.

[00:35:19] Walking that movie. And going. I. Want to make people feel. The way she makes me feel. That's. And I wasn't sure. How to do that. But I was always. I mean. My daddy said. I came out of the womb acting. And. I've always been interested. In. Artistic expression. Whether it be through movement. Dance. Um. Anything. To create.

[00:35:49] So. When. I found it. Through acting. I actually. Wanted. That was my dream role. To play Gypsy. And. Just like Natalie Wood. And. Um. I achieved that. In my. Early in my career. And. Won a Leon Raven in Dallas for it. And. It was so. It. It was so validating. To me. Because. You know. It. It was the role that inspired me the most. I want to do that.

[00:36:18] Jessica Lange is another one that. Oh yes. You just. I mean. Everything. Those are two powerhouses. That should be better known. But most people go to just some of the other. Well known stars. Hold on a second. These people have been around way longer. Like. I had this when. At the last Oscar show. Where I saw people saying. I've never seen anything else with Amy Madigan. I'm like. Are you kidding me? Oh my god. How? My first job. This is great. Because. Oh. I don't get to tell anybody this very often.

[00:36:48] But the very. My first job in the industry. Was. You'll love this. You don't already know it. Was. I was hired. As. The stand in. For Sally Field. In Places in the Heart. Wow. I worked with. John Malkovich. Danny Glover. Amy Madigan. Ed Harris. Um. That movie. I sat in the cotton fields.

[00:37:16] I was in everything that Sally was in. I was there. Because I was in a double. I learned so much. Six days a week. Fourteen hour days. Walks the hatch to Texas. I drove from Dallas to walk the hatch every day. Um. I learned so much. And Amy Madigan and Ed Harris. When we had downtime. Would play the guitar. We drink beer. Listen. You know. Listen to them. I mean.

[00:37:46] I was with. Magic. Danny Glover would ask me where to party in Dallas. I mean. In the cotton fields. As we're shooting the cotton picking scenes. I mean. And Nestor Almendros was the cinematographer of that. And he was very. Um. Instrumental. And. And. Because he included me. And at the time. They called them. The rushes. But now they're called the dailies. Yes. He would invite me in. That's a good distinction. For. For the record.

[00:38:16] He would invite me in. To watch. And he called me his little discovery. And. Um. I learned so much. By watching Sally Field. I watched her. Get. Into character. I saw her. Take her time. And I saw. Everybody respect her space. On this serious. Role. That she was upset. So much. And she had to go to those places. And people respected that. And that showed me early on.

[00:38:46] That. If people are not respecting it. You have to tell them. I need. Totally. So I can go here. Because that happens a lot. A lot of people don't realize. Quiet on set. And I'm not. I'm not one of those. That can turn it on and off. But Sally Field. Is the one who. Who. I learned so much from. As far as one on one. Because I was right there every day. Watching her do her magic. Man. So. You should tell people about that story more often. That's. That's great. Because. I mean.

[00:39:16] That's what started it. That was the beginning. For me. That made me go. I. This is definitely what I want to do. For my life. Because I. Spent. I mean. I love the magic. And you create a family on set. And I was family. Even though I was the stand in. I was the only permanent stand in they hired. And. It was my first job. Because I went to the audition. They were looking for dancers. For the. Dance. Square dance scenes. And stuff.

[00:39:45] And I was a dancer. So. And I had a great country look. And I saw that they had that written. On my sheet. But they asked me to stick around. Because. I was the same size as Sally. And the cinematographer. Was looking for her stand in. And wanted. Was considering me. I love it. Yeah. That's great. Oh. But also. Again. You know. It could have easily been a. Job where you just copy and paste. Go on to the next one. Go on to the next one. Aimlessly. Like no.

[00:40:15] Here's what I want to do now. Here's how I want to implement that into my formula. Here's how I want to get good at that. Yes. And. And I mean. This is before we could take notes on our phone. In fact. On any set. Your phone should not be out. Oh. I never take my phone. With me to set. My phone is on airplane. When I'm working. And it's in my dressing room. There you go. It can wait. It can wait. It's. Time is money. It's a distraction. And. I don't. You know. For me. That doesn't work.

[00:40:45] So. Perfect. Like I said. Everybody has their own ways. There are no right and wrong. Songs. But for me. That I. I don't take my phone with me. There you go. Well. And so. You've. Worked with. Again. Stage West. And Uptown Players. Yeah. Yeah. You got to tour. On the road. Doing. Doing. Doing. The one woman show. About Betty Davis. Under. Writer. Camilla Carr. Me and Betty.

[00:41:16] How was that next stage going? Where you got involved with a lot of theater. Groups. Oh my God. Well. There is nothing in the world. It's a completely different. Genre. I guess. In a way. It's. I don't know. Theater. Theater. I've been asked before. Which do you like better? Film. TV. Or theater? Well. I can't. I can't answer that. Because they're all different. And I love them each. When I'm doing them.

[00:41:45] It has worked out in my career. That if I wasn't doing. A film. Or a television series. Or. Something. To that effect. There was an incredible theater show. That was offered to me. Or I auditioned for. And got. In a time. That worked. And the way that. I. Made that work. Is. If it's a job. And I've been offered a job. That's my job. So. Yes. I had to book out for films.

[00:42:15] A little bit. And at one time. My agent. Did have a problem with that. But I explained to her. I said. I cannot sit. And this is what I do. For a living. I cannot sit. And wait. And hope. That I get these jobs. When I have. Somebody offering me. A role on stage. That is. An equity role. So I'm still going to get paid. Now you don't make the kind of money. That you make on film and television. Right. But. If you're not working. You're not making any money. So.

[00:42:45] The way. You're always honing your craft. If you're. If I'm doing theater. I'm honing my craft. Because I'm living. Right there. It's different from film and television. Because you don't shoot in order. But. In theater. You get to start at the beginning of a story. And art. All the way to the end. Every night. And so you live. And things can happen. Things can mess up. And you have to. Go on.

[00:43:14] You have to be a problem solver. You have to. You can't. You don't stop the show. And go. Oh sorry. Show me so long. Can we start over? You don't do that. You live. In the moment. And you make it. Real to the show. It's amazing. It's. To me. It balances it out. Because. I think a lot of film actors. If you've never had theater. Theater. You know. You don't. You miss out. On some of.

[00:43:44] For me. That's how I learned. To do the homework. Was theater. Because. I did so much homework. With theater. I could go to those. Emotional places. Faster for film. Because I. Had done homework. On characters. And maybe you're doing. A character in a film. That's very similar. To someone. That you had played. And you go. Oh my god. That's who that is. Yes. You can pull from that. Or go back. To those notes. And go. If it's hard to find.

[00:44:14] And just do some deep dive. And go. Oh. That's who she is. You know. So it helps you. I find ways. To make it help me. Well. How would you say. You got good at note taking though. Because like. Note taking is already. An underappreciated skill to have. I'm an old school note. I. People have asked me. About my process. My process. Is a lot of work. A lot of actors. Probably wouldn't do what I do. But I. I write everything down.

[00:44:44] I write my cues. I write. I have a notebook for cues. I have a notebook for lines. I have. I record it. I know it so well. That. I. If I get stuck on something. Um. Um. I go back. And. And work. And work. On that section. And write it. Until I know what I'm saying. I will do the cues. And if I can answer. The question. Or whatever. Somebody's saying to me. Without.

[00:45:14] Having to look at the lines. Then I know. I know what I'm talking about. Basically. You can't become. Any. Character. Unless you know. What you're saying. Mm-hmm. So you have to know. It's not ever about memorizing lines. Bingo. Yes. Ever. This person. Knows what's up. But. That's true too. Is like. Okay. You got the lines. Did you become the character? Uh. Well. I become the character. I become the character.

[00:45:44] Before I have the lines usually. But. But. But that's how I learn the lines. There you go. You know. So now. Then you can ask the actual question. Which the director actually wants to know. Is like. So why am I speaking this way? You know. Mm-hmm. A lesser filmmaker will be like. Why are you asking me that? You should know. It's like. No. That. If they actually are. Care about every detail. They should want to explain it. Gladly. You know. And you discover things. When you do that. When you really do the work. Like in the play that I'm doing right now. Mama Won't Die. There is a scene.

[00:46:14] That my character. I was. Working on it. With the. With the attorney. The actor. Um. Playing the attorney. Bruce Milena. And he's wonderful. And. Um. But it's a scene on the porch. And it's all about. Mama's estate. And what we're going to do. And. As I was working on it at home. It occurred to me. That my character. Who has been married. Five times. Would flirt with him. And so I.

[00:46:43] Sent a message to the director. Dale Shores. And I said. What do you think. Would it bother you. If I tried. Flirting with him. With Richard. And he said. I love it. I said. It might change some of the blocking. But. Can I show you in rehearsal. And can we play. And he said. Absolutely. And sure enough. It's become. One of my. Fun things to do. Is flirt with him. On the porch. Because. It's a side of that character. That we don't see.

[00:47:13] In the rest of the show. You know. But it brought her to life. It showed. A different side of her. And you find. I think. When you're working. In my process. When I do it this way. I discover things. That I didn't see before. Because I'm really. Learning what I'm talking about. Hmm. Hmm. You know. I love it. Well. It also says a lot for. You're wanting to get better at the craft. And you're also showing everyone. It's like.

[00:47:42] I don't have all the answers. I do. But I don't. I'm. I know what I know. And I'm still willing to. Keep this fresh and new. And learn more. You know. Yeah. Yeah. It also. It just engages you. With the other actor. And he. He is. You know. He. He is having fun. Flirting back. So. You know. I don't know if Patty originally wrote that in there. Dell. You know. Under a good direction. She trusts Dell completely. And.

[00:48:12] He loved it. And so. Now it's become part of it. And it. It just shows another. Another layer. That's always fun. You know. We're all. We have to be about layers. Because how else do we get good at the craft? You know. That's right. And. So. You've already promoted some of the stuff you got coming up. Which is great. You know. People should know about other stuff. Instead of. Well I haven't heard of that. It's like. Well you need to. Because it's going to. It's going to explode. It's going to be big.

[00:48:42] And if it isn't. That's okay. It's still. Going to be seen. Consumed. People are going to get better at what they're doing. And. You know. Just. And. So. What do you look for most in feedback? Because feedback is important too. And again. We're such a negative society. When we need to just be telling people. What we need. Or. Are looking for. Instead of just. What I want it to be. So. What would you. What are like. Three things that everyone needs. To tell apart the feedback. From the smack talk. Yeah. I think.

[00:49:13] For me. Feedback. And I'm not sure. Are you talking about. From just somebody. Who may have seen your show. Or seen the movie. Or seen. Yes. Just any kind of feedback. Is like. Here's what we saw. From how you acted in that. And. You're going to. Respond back with. Okay. Cool. This is what I was going for. With this. You know. Yeah. It's funny. I have never. Done anything. That I'm doing. For feedback.

[00:49:43] Okay. Perfect. You don't need it. But. I mean. It's not that. I don't. Need it. But when I do. Get it. I appreciate it. And the feedback. That I love. Is when someone said. Says to me. I mean. The best thing. You can hear. I think as an actor. Is. You were moved. That it moved you. Your character. Moved you. I believed you. I didn't know. That was you.

[00:50:13] And oh my god. God. Um. I loved you in that role. But I loved that series. Or I loved that show. I mean. I think. For me. It's the truth. Um. Um. Uh. You know. Everybody has their own opinions. About shows. Some people. Would not. Like Salem. And I wouldn't expect them to. Because. It's dark. It's still on a witchcraft. So it's not going to be for every fantasy. It's not for everybody. Yeah. But when people love it. They love it. And they.

[00:50:43] They love the. The character. And for me. If I can find the truth in the character. If I have touched you. Or I have moved you in some way. Or I've made you believe in that character. That's the ultimate. Feedback. That I can get. You know. Um. Because. What more can you do? It's. You don't. You know. Sometimes. So. Where. Do you ever feel like a production. Is.

[00:51:13] At issues with. When you get a. I don't know. And I don't know what could make it better. Just. When working on a show. Or just with a performances. It's like. Okay. Well then we really got to brainstorm this more. And. You know. Time is getting away from us. So. At which point do you feel like. A role needs to be. Worked a little more. Or. Well. I think. I mean. My experience on television and film.

[00:51:42] Is when I've been cast in them. I've been cast because they like what I'm bringing to the table. Okay. So. Perfect. We. The collaboration comes. Depending on the director. And. And if the director has a specific. I mean. Usually they cast you. Because they want to work with you. And they. They. They. You did something. That. They. Was right in line with their vision. Sometimes.

[00:52:12] You did something that they loved so much. But he didn't work for the vision for this. And then you. Down the line. They've offered you something else. Um. Um. Because they loved what. They love your work. I. I've never. I mean. The negativity of. Um. I don't know. You know. How to make this better. Doesn't come into play. It hasn't come into play. That's wonderful. Yeah.

[00:52:41] With the things that I've done. Because I've been. I've worked with some amazing. Amazing people. And everybody. Knows. I mean. We don't know the answers. But because we're open. To. Being present with each other. And. Doing the work. Then. It. The magic happens. It's. I think the problems come. If you've got actors. That are not open. To doing the work. And then you have. Then it becomes more difficult.

[00:53:11] You know. Or it's a more natural problem. Like hey. One of the. Overhead lights. Just went out. But that's okay. Now. I'm getting the character. Focusing on the character. And I can put some of my. Stress I'm feeling now. Into this already intense. Role. You know. Yeah. But that's. They're handling that. And that just. And that's not my problem. I don't need to focus on that. I just got distracted. Everybody has a job. Because the. I just got distracted. Because the power boxes went out. And just made a noise. But now. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:41] But now. That's cool too. It's like. Yeah. Our people. Who is like. Need to stay in their lane. They need to focus on what. They're. You know. Here to do. And I think. When you get on a good set. That's what happens. I mean. I really. Linkletter. Runs a. Wonderful set. I mean. That is. He is wonderful to work with. I mean. From the. I think it starts at the top. You know. Totally. You. When you've got.

[00:54:11] Good. People. At the top. It's. It trickles all the way down. Boom. So you've heard it from. Our gal here tonight. Miss Shaw. So. How. How is New York. So far. Like. Weather wise. And everything. Oh. I mean. I haven't been there in three months. But. I love New York. I love New York. And. It's. It's great.

[00:54:41] There's energy. It's. There's always a show to go see. There's always. I mean. For an artist. It's life. It's just. I'm excited. I'm excited to go back. And. See some shows. And. See my dog. And my husband. And. Have fun. Have some fun. I've been working. For the past three months. I'm ready to. Ready to have a little vacation.

[00:55:11] And I. I love my work. But that's how it works. You know. That's why I'm like. I am not complaining. I love what I do. So. I take it. Because there are times. You don't work. For months. And months. And months. Yeah. In that time. You do things. Get your new headshots. Work. Go study with someone. Take some class. Go see some shows. Do things that. Empower you. And. Something you've been putting off. That's what that time is for. That's. A good idea. Because.

[00:55:41] There are going to be dry spells. Inevitably. So don't. Don't. Don't. It's kind of like. I don't know. Like. When you see people reacting to bullies online. It's like. Well you only let the bully win. If you give them a minute of your time. Don't do that. That's so right. So. Hey. Some great pointers. And. You're the third guest in a row. Or it's like. That's not. A part of my equation. Because it's. It's not part of the deal at all. I'm like. That's great. Yeah. See.

[00:56:09] Of problems that are often talked about. I was like. Well. Those were chaotic sets. When we hear about that happening. Yeah. On certain movies and shows. It's like. And. The real people who make it through. Are the ones who again. Don't make the problem. Just be part of the solution. Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh. Hey. Positivity all around. I love it. And. Wish nothing but the best. Thank you Cameron. Thank you. You're. You're lovely to talk to. This was so much fun. Thanks for making an hour of this.

[00:56:39] Hey. Storytelling. That's what this is ultimately about. I love it. We're storytellers. There's plenty of chats where it's like. We didn't talk anything about anyone's profession. It's like. That's even better. We showed how it was just like everyday life. You know. Because it is. But everyone likes to act like it isn't. And it's like. No. It's a profession. That's right. With craft. To showcase. You know. Yeah. It's. It's. It is. You gotta love it though. You gotta love it. You must love it. You must. Invest. It's not for everybody. And it's okay.

[00:57:10] Yep. If you find that it's not for you. It's okay. Totally. Yeah. Love and learn. Uh huh.

[00:57:48] We'll return after these messages. on Thursdays at 5 p.m. Central Time. 6 p.m. Eastern. Then catch it Wednesday mornings at 11 a.m. Eastern Time. 10 a.m. Central. On 1077 K-Twins. Then hang out with us Wednesday afternoons. On MXTR and House Shack Radio. 3 p.m. Eastern Time. Then Thursday. Get up bright and early with us on 95.7 Web Radio. At 6 a.m. Pacific Time.

[00:58:16] 9 a.m. Eastern Time. Of course, we've got the Friday cover as well. 12 p.m. Eastern Time on MXTR FM. And 10 p.m. Eastern Time. 9 p.m. Central. 1077 K-Twins. Find everything on House Shack.com. House Shack. Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win in a fight between Goku and Superman?

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