Inception and Tenet Double Feature

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information. Ladies and gentlemen, the dramatic conclusion of my interview with Christopher Nolan. Spoiler, it's great. Do your films have meaning or being? In other words, do I have to get your film or can I experience your film?

[00:00:27] If you experience my film, you are getting it. And I feel very strongly about that. And I think that where people encounter frustrations with my narratives in the past, sometimes I think they're slightly missing the point. It's not a puzzle to be unpacked. It's an experience to be had, preferably in a movie theater, but also at home.

[00:00:50] Hopefully in an unbroken period, in a linear period. It's an experience to be had. That is the point of it. That's the feeling of it. Everything else, if people are interested to talk about it or debate it more or if ideas resonate, that's a huge bonus. But for me, it's really all about that emotional experience of watching the film with an audience. Some people say they don't understand Tenet. Some people say they don't understand everything in Tenet, some of it. Do you understand everything in Tenet?

[00:01:20] You're not meant to understand everything in Tenet. It's not all comprehensible. It's a bit like asking if I know what happens to the spinning top at the end of Inception. Do you know what happens to the spinning top at the end of Inception? I have to have my idea of it for it to be a valid, productive ambiguity. But the point of it is that it's an ambiguity. As Emma always likes to say, the point is that the character doesn't care whether it falls or not.

[00:01:48] Staying on Tenet for just a second here, I've got some theories that I'd like to run past you. Okay, I'm not going to get into the satire square, which obviously I've got all figured out. But Max is really Neil, right? I don't allow myself to comment on fan theories anymore. It's okay. You can. You should. Have fun. Kick off your shoes. Let your hair down. I'm not kicking off my shoes. Let my hair down.

[00:02:14] I made the mistake many years ago, and luckily it was before the prevalence of social media and all the rest. I went to the Venice Film Festival and showed Memento with the first ever audience who saw it. And in the press conference afterwards, they asked me about my interpretation of the ending. And I said, well, the important thing is it's ambiguous, it's unknowable, but yeah, what I think is blah, blah, blah. All right, gang. So we're not holding back.

[00:02:39] We're talking about the always controversial Christopher Nolan and his Inception-inspired resume. So yeah, we'll go into the 2010 film, but we'll also discuss Tenet and what did and didn't work. Spoiler, not much of anything worked. It just does not hold up on repeat viewings. So we're not the kindest, but we did actually make some points. So if you can handle that, listen on.

[00:03:13] I can access your mind through your dreams. It's called Inception. The seed that we plant in this man's mind may change everything. We should walk away from this. This was not a part of the plan. You're not prepared for this. We did PG-13 theaters and IMAX July 16th.

[00:03:43] All I have for you is a word. Tenet. Tenet. You're not shooting the book. You're catching it. Whoa. Tenet coming to theaters. Trailer today. We missed. We loaded it. We edited it.

[00:04:10] Sometimes we get so deep into conversation that we have separate segments worthy of their own place in the sun. Reshuffled mini episodes.

[00:04:41] Pretentiousness and self-righteous and amazing. You just rank it on the Christopher Nolan scale. Yeah, pretty much. He's got all of those. He can be very amazing in his. He is great with suspense. But then ever since inception, I was like, that was cool. Then I rewatched it a few times. It's not having the same tune. I watched Tenet and won and was like, I got it. I don't like it. Go. I couldn't get all the way through Tenet. I got bored. It's so bad.

[00:05:10] It was like an Outer Limits episode that didn't know when to stop. And I was a wrestler trying to tap out. Ah, ah, ah. Yeah. I love you, Denzel Washington's son, John David. Why are they giving everybody all the faith-based names? John David. He really does. He has this weird spiritual belief system he keeps trying to sneak into his movies. Yeah.

[00:05:38] It's like he's part Mr. Smith goes to Washington, and then he adds in Michael Bay explosions. And then to make it more artistic, he tries to pull a Spielberg on you. He was like, what have we become with science and politics? Society's ruined. He's like, thank you. I couldn't have thought of that for myself. Spielberg still has you beat in terms of people looking into space, said things. Sorry, I did that for you, Gil.

[00:06:04] Spielberg also has him beat in terms of doing a decent Philip K. Dick movie, which is all Inception. Without the quality of the dick. Oh, respect the cock. It is wild, though, too, how you'll see some film purists argue over Nolan. And it's like, whatever happened, you just agree to disagree or just you like it. It's like, it's not like I said Citizen Kane was mindless.

[00:06:31] It's not like I said Lords of Arabia was boring. That's not. I'm just saying. I didn't say anything sacrilege like that. If you disagree on a new filmmaker, to each their own. But I see others acting like, oh, you can't possibly like it. He won Best Picture. It's like, no, he didn't. Because in my book, every Best Picture is a loser. Except for Coda. That was amazing. Everyone should see that. Get an Apple subscription free trial. Or pirate it and watch it.

[00:06:58] I'm very grateful that his next picture ended up being the Odyssey. I might even think that he could pull that off. But there were rumors for the longest time that he wanted to make a movie of what I always felt was probably one of the greatest achievements in the history of television. And I was just so nauseous at the idea of how he would twist it into his own vile garbage. Because he wanted to do The Prisoner as a movie. And they already remade it once badly.

[00:07:28] Yes. I am not a number. You're right. You're not a number. You're one of Christopher Nolan's innumerable plot twists. Yes, that's right. Oh, my God. Yeah, the original Prisoner was a little bit of an odd duck. You can just imagine what he'd make of it. I'm sure his brother Jonathan, who's got a big career in TV, would be like, it's okay, Chris. You don't have to do this. You don't have to sell out this much. Just stop, stop, stop.

[00:07:55] I just think the prisoner for the whole movie would be like, I'm not in a Christopher Nolan movie. God, please. How do I get out of here? It's great. Doctor Who actually did a heist episode. Yes. It was called Time Heist.

[00:08:17] And I thought, I didn't necessarily follow it completely, but I love the idea of using time travel as a means to complete a heist. So you hear that, guys? Christopher Nolan was inspired. I'm just kidding. But yeah, no. The Capaldi era. Yeah. I think I've seen part of that episode. And it is just a wild how.

[00:08:42] And whatever we got to do to just ensure that the stakes are raised is like, it's not just getting it. It's also getting there is seemingly impossible. Yeah, it goes to the complete opposite direction of like the Oceans movies. You just made me think of Avengers Endgame or something where there is. Is it Endgame is the last one? Yeah. Where they're trying to do something with all these gems and they're trying to go back in time to take this gem from this time. Yeah.

[00:09:11] They got to land in exactly the period. Otherwise, you know, everything's all undone. Yeah. So that was sort of a heist movie, too. Now that I think about it, I never thought about that before. Yeah. Inception is pretty much a heist movie. There's all kinds of ones where if you think about it, it's kind of a heist movie. And I do think about it. And I don't think it's a heist movie, to be honest. It has elements of it. But it was more about creating a different reality than actually we're going to have. Here's a plan. We're going to execute it.

[00:09:40] We're going to do this, this, this and this. They were more enamored with the background. I agree that it was elements of it. Because, yeah. That's what I'm thinking. I wouldn't give it a straight up. Got to go see this heist movie that this filmmaker's made. But I see what you mean. Because they're more scientific kind of based. It was the best two thirds of a movie I've ever seen. Yeah. Amen to that.

[00:10:08] I'm like, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. Just do suspense. Don't shoot action. I don't know if he does his time hopping thing, you know, or jumping around thing. I don't know if he'll do it to my satisfaction. And hire a good second unit director. Don't keep hiring all these James Bond expendables guys and then saying, I want to reshoot it with my own and then shaking the camera to where it's incomprehensible. Just give it to the pros, dude. And just own it. You know? Just.

[00:10:38] Spielberg knew when to let the stunt team on Indiana Jones do all the talking. You can take all the credit for their achievements. Just stay in your lane. Make them make you look good. That's what they're there for. If you don't know how to do it, you can hire them. I mean, that's what Paul Verhoeven did with Yon DeBont, where it's like, can you get all these car chases for me while I get all everyone else's closeups? Okay, good. Like, you don't have to do every single thing. It's impossible. You're not John Carpenter.

[00:11:08] You're not Steven Soderbergh. Just stay in your lane. Write, direct, and produce. And just let everyone else do their homework. I mean, other than his crazy philosophical stuff, is there any real consistency to him? I mean, in terms of like... Oh, yes, there is. What is he trying to be? There's the consistency. All right. Yeah.

[00:11:36] Just the Foley work. It must be loud. It must be too much. And it must be big. So, would that be Matt Foley work? You're right. I do post-production in a band down by the river. You might need to go to Lucasfilm, the THX system, and get the sound checks. We got to correct this, Nolan. No, no. I want it to be loud.

[00:12:05] Just like that one roller coaster I was on. Chris, we really can't hear anything. We need to redo this in post. Oh, bloody hell. I guess you're right. I still want it to be loud. Chris, it's okay. You're not David Lynch. You don't have to break our eardrums and make us freak out. Aw. I want to scare my kids, though. Why would you want to scare your kids? I don't know. I could shit some giggles from doing that. I'm a bloody twat sometimes. There. That's the consistency. That's all his movies. He's a twat.

[00:12:34] Our mate did scare his children. He was trying to scare his kids, making them kiss themselves. But it was kind of funny how we were joking with Scorsese, how everything, every movie is Sunset Boulevard, where the dead man is narrating, or the guy who's going to be killed is narrating. And all that is just... I must have an explosion. I feel like Denis Vinov is a better version of him at mixing arthouse stuff with the Hollywood blockbuster, and yet he's got a little more diversity

[00:13:01] instead of I must have a pre-existing IP all the time. I'll tell you this. Deception was the best two-thirds of a movie I've ever seen. Yeah. That third act, it didn't make any sense. That's why we should call it Deception. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Mad Magazine probably did. Yes. Yeah, Christopher Nolan doesn't make long movies,

[00:13:29] but the only person who would make even a longer superhero movie would have to be Snyder. Slow motion for no reason. What would be the Zack Snyder version, the Snyder cut of Batman The Dark Knight? It's just more... Yeah, slow motion. Well, he probably stopped fighting because of the name Martha.

[00:13:59] I remember seeing someone do a mock, like they were just making fun of just like movies that were getting a reboot, and someone's like, here's the Care Bear. And it looks like just depressed, zombified, you know, bears and everything with pretty vibrant colors and depressing, like, backdrops. And you're just like, Jesus. That's probably how it would look like if it has to be like 300 type fights. And I still like Dawn of the Dead, but... I'm glad he did that. That was him and James Gunn. Yeah.

[00:14:28] But that movie, too, is like the first 20 minutes is like a masterpiece. And then after that, it's okay. Ouch. I still like it better than anything else he's done, but I hear that. Oh, God. Yeah, I'm afraid to see what movie he or Nolan would remake from this point on, because Snyder's going to probably make it be five plus hours and spend it on cocaine and people who owe him a favor. And Nolan's going to demand that everything be 500 million.

[00:14:58] And then while Warner Brothers tries to send him a check to try and bribe him to come back to them. That is stupid, though. Can you think of any other studio who's that desperate? It was like, okay, okay. We'll release your movie in theaters because of COVID. But can you come back? Don't go to Universal. It's like, dude, he's already working there and you still wrote him a check? You deserve to lose money. You're stupid. You don't beg people to come back to work.

[00:15:28] That just shows you what an ass you are. I'll make movies. I'll make movies. And yeah, and why does he cast Michael Caine and doesn't tell him to do away with his English accent? It's like, yeah, there's no way DiCaprio's dad is Michael Caine. That just, no. It would be a good thing to put me in the movie. It's a good mansion. I was Harry Palmer. I'll show him a little spy tricks and how to hack people's minds. Good mansion.

[00:15:55] It was so funny when Michael Caine retired and my sister and father were in display. I've had a good life. I've had a good career. I want to just stop being busy for now. And I'm like, yeah, he's content. Perfect. He earned it. He's had some great movies. He's been great in bad movies. I'm looking at you on deadly ground. Oh, God. All right.

[00:16:18] So summing up the overall points, I think what really just drives one crazy is just the agonizing amount of just over-the-top gun fights. And people are just like firing automatic guns at close blank range. And I'd be okay with that if it wasn't as bad as the whole Marvel thing where people make an exception to a rule just because of their nostalgia and love of a person. It's like, no. No free rides.

[00:16:44] When a plot twist and an ambiguous fantasy by David Lynch doesn't work, I call it out. If Spielberg has seen better days, I call it out. If Scorsese doesn't make use of his time, I call it out. So same thing with Nolan where you can see Inception probably once. Growing up, I definitely gave it like a 7 out of 10 because it was epic, but it wasn't perfect. I can safely say on repeat viewings, it's nowadays a 2.5 out of 5.

[00:17:13] It doesn't stand the test of time like the Matrix movies or even a better Outer Limits or Twilight Zone episode because it opens itself up to this ridicule. Nolan is good with a solid mystery. He's not good if he has to cover a war story or do all these expensive stunts.

[00:17:35] And as we saw in some of the Batman sequels, he likes to show people getting shot at but then surrenders believability by saying, oh, I don't want a R rating. I want to make a PG-13. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Show someone getting shot. And if you make it realistic, you can plead with the MPAA. It doesn't necessarily even need to be R. You know, they get away with it on TV all the time.

[00:17:59] And before you say, well, different standards, yeah, different standards, but they still got practices they got applied by and sometimes they have to make a request. So it's like, yeah. X-Files, it's not. I can safely say. But hey, we already slapped him over the head and then proceeded to ridicule. But I think the biggest issue is I should like this.

[00:18:25] I think most people probably should like it, but nowadays I can see why others are just like, this gives me, you know, headaches from the overdone sound. It's not detailed with the virtual reality. And before you go, oh, what are you talking about? I'm like, yeah, the whole dream thing is kind of just a ploy to cover up the inexcusable plot holes. And before you say, there's always plot holes in this. Okay, fair enough. But here's the thing.

[00:18:55] I'm finding fault without looking for it. That alone is a problem because I'm not looking for that. You can even make an counterpoint saying, oh, nothing is beyond scrutiny. Yeah, fair enough. But scrutiny is still scrutiny. If there's a problem and it's not being dealt with, we still got a problem. And the problems are just way too much for their own good in these movies.

[00:19:24] Again, you can have fun with Inception, but Tenet, you avoid like the plague because, man, that movie does not know where it wants to go. And just seeing that clip that no one says at the end, just angers one to no end. It's like it's just complete hackery. It's like you had a meaning. You had a purpose to this. Give us your meaning. Well, there wasn't a point. Then why'd you make it?

[00:19:53] At the end of the day, you have to have a point. So don't do all this. Oh, it's an A24 movie. It's meant to make me sad. And I didn't know what it meant, but it was cool. It's like, no. Have some kind of vision. You don't have to explain all the ideas, but explain most of them. You know, like Chris Carter does a lot of bullshit on X-Files, but he explains most of it. And the stuff he does explain mostly works. The stuff that doesn't work, doesn't work. And we let him know.

[00:20:23] So same deal here. It's like this is born in the line between some lost bullshit and some A24 bullshit. But Nolan's nowadays, again, the reason I compare him to Jordan Peele and M. Night Shyamalan is because he does this whole, you know, I'm a purist. I'm pretending to be an art house guy. And it's like, no. So Dennis Van Aave has it figured out by not letting actors overstay their welcome.

[00:20:49] And even some of the latest epics by Spielberg are not overdoing it because he's staying in his cage. He's bringing himself in and when he gets a bad script, he can still at least fest to it afterwards, especially if it's something like Lost World, Jurassic Park or Crystal Skull. Which, OK, so he did not confess to Crystal Skull, but he did make it clear that he was trying to make his friends happy. And that was a problem.

[00:21:13] Yeah, ultimately, the problems are just way too wide, way too detailed for me to forgive. So I will not be forgiving them, but hopefully we had some kind of balanced chat, even though this probably wasn't the positive overview many were looking for. But that's OK, because if a movie does not date well, it never will for older other generations. That's for sure. So we're not saying you can't like this. You can certainly like it. But ask yourself why you like it.

[00:21:43] And I've done this myself with several different twisted movies, even various heist movies that get more questions than answers. If a movie can have fun with this ambiguity, I'm open for that. But yeah, Nolan, you need to get a hobby other than messing with people and not providing any reason for why you're doing what you're doing. Personally, most of us, I can safely say, are done. Defenders and all.

[00:22:08] Let that be the end of this shenanigan filled, maddening and but mostly closed off discussion. So thank you for listening. Hopefully we entertain someone, counterpoints or not. And if there's something we missed, feel free to hit us up on social media. We'll return after these messages. All right, folks, HalShack here.

[00:22:37] We got a 90-minute weekly Shack Stop. It's growing all over the world. Find it at 2 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern Time on Mondays. Then 3 p.m. on Wednesdays. Then 7 p.m. on Thursdays. You can catch it on many more radio stations. 99.9 KERV. 1 p.m. Central Time. 2 p.m. Eastern on Mondays. Then catch the Encore on Thursdays at 5 p.m. Central Time. 6 p.m. Eastern.

[00:23:05] Then catch it Wednesday mornings at 11 a.m. Eastern Time, 10 a.m. Central on 1077 K-Twins. Then hang out with us Wednesday afternoons on MXTR and Hal Shack Radio, 3 p.m. Eastern Time. Then Thursday, get up bright and early with us on 95.7 Web Radio at 6 a.m. Pacific Time, 9 a.m. Eastern. Of course, we've got your Friday covered as well.

[00:23:33] 12 p.m. Eastern Time on MXTR FM and 10 p.m. Eastern Time, 9 p.m. Central, 1077 K-Twins. Find everything on HalShack.com. HalShack. Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win in a fight between Goku and Superman? Hi, I'm James Gavsey, and on the Who Would Win Show, me and my co-host Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world

[00:24:00] and debate fictional battles between characters from comics, movies, and video games. We've got a new show every week, and almost always am I the winner. Yeah, not true, Ray. In the past, we've discussed such matches as Captain America vs. Darth Vader, Solid Snake vs. the Iron Giant, classic matchups like Robocop vs. Terminator, and even the Muppets vs. Sesame Street. That one was crazy. So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate, check out the Who Would Win Show wherever you get your podcasts,

[00:24:30] or check us out at whowouldwinshow.com. ...are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening.

[00:25:00] It's a jacked up review show.