Danger Man & The Prisoner Saga Review (with Jeff Kerr, Tom Lindaman, James Bruno & Gil Palmer)

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[00:00:34] Don't think. Don't talk. Keep your mouth shut. If we order you to kill, you will kill. We demand complete obedience. Keep them on their toes. Twenty minutes can seem a very long time. Those are very dangerous words. You ought to be more discreet. I'll try.

[00:00:53] I'm wondering what you're doing here. It's a question of your resignation. We want information. Information. Information. You ought to get it.

[00:02:21] Why does the prisoner fucking rock, James? Because in the night... Okay, so I saw it when I was in high school. It was 1990. 1990. They were rebroadcasting on PBS. And there was a guy at the beginning and at the end, you know, just explaining everything, what was going on. And I think I got caught up with it. I think maybe...

[00:02:49] Not the chimes of Big Ben. There was another one. He might have been the Schizoid Man or maybe Dance of the Dead or something. Like Dance of Death or something like that. I don't remember what episode, but it got to me how I heard about this show.

[00:03:09] And I didn't know what it was about, but it kept coming into my orbit, you know, because I think Rhino had put together a box set first and then Shout then put it together again, remastered. Yeah. It was an amazing premise, too. I mean, you know, a guy who basically is a secret agent resigns.

[00:03:34] He has a lot of high class and highly classified information he could tell anybody. And I take it, you know, about how the story editor on this also worked on Danger Man. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, the thing was, it was it's so funny. It's like Mark Stein and Markstein had worked on Danger Man, a.k.a. secret. It's like he created it, but he didn't really write. He was kind of doing a Carol O'Connor. He was rewriting episodes, but he wasn't involved in the main story and the main guys.

[00:04:02] It's basically like in our mind, it's the same thing, even though he's not playing it that way. Yeah. And what he did was Markstein had actually said on the lap, like there were only two episodes for the last season of Danger Man that were filmed in color. And he's like, look, I'm vibrant in color. Yeah. Especially when he's doing the fire attack fight scene. Oh, God. Yeah. I was like, oh, Jesus. You know, this is a James Bond movie now, but it's so funny.

[00:04:30] I people were saying that. But then you read behind the scenes. But he was basically like, I turned down Bond and this is my answer to that. I'm going to go beyond what they think I can do. It's not going to be a womanizer. He does not use a gun except in one episode. Basically a private eye. But he doesn't. He gets the first punch in instead of being ganged up on or. Yeah, seduced inside a nightclub now. No, no, sir. That's not. But what had happened was he'd gotten kind of tired of it.

[00:04:58] And he said, I'm done with the series. He went to Sir Lou Grade and he said, look, I've got this idea kicking around. And he brought George Markstein along. I think he brought somebody else along, too. And the development was and grade was like, OK, I'll give you 13 episodes. And he was like, OK, fine. So the idea was he's a secret agent. He has highly classified information.

[00:05:26] They know he's a threat. He could give this information to anybody. So who's ever the hires up in power, basically drug him and send them off to this place where you don't have a name. You have a number. Yeah. And everybody's known by numbers. It's the it's a utopian village. Yeah. I hear you're groovy, baby. Groovy, baby. Yeah. Groovy. Yeah. Oh, man.

[00:05:54] So we got some lovely people on here today. We also got a guest. I'm sure the guests are a lovely person, too. And his name is Jeff, apparently. Unless you want me to pronounce it as hefe. Yeah, Megan. Movie buff. We've had him on before. And he didn't like this out of his own voice. And I told him it's pretty groovy. It's pretty awesome. We're talking about the Patrick McGoo and cinematic universe.

[00:06:22] Yeah, I watched The Prisoner and I have one question. What would that be? Who does number two work for? That's all you were thinking. It all goes to Austin Powers. It all does. Yes. So how much? How long you been workshopping that one? About two days. Two. It all goes back to two.

[00:06:54] So, Jeff, lovely to have you back on. You're always a delight. Thank you. We did one where it was like we were just talking about all these sci-fi horror and all these stuff. And then we ended up going into like a mega overdrive. Like it went led into one or after the other. And he's like, good grief. How are you splitting these up? I'm like, trust me, that's why I have all these bumpers so we can lead into one chat. Yeah, I know him to do that. And I kid you not, like Jeff was communicating with me. He's like, I just started going through this again.

[00:07:22] I'm like, I just got done watching it again. So for those who don't have to know here, it's a hard one to even kind of conjure up. Like you've seen kind of sci-fi TV show guys kind of mentioned they're inspired by it. And looking at it now, I definitely think even kill or be killed kind of scenario movies like Enter the Dragon or Running Man were definitely influenced.

[00:07:48] It itself is very atmospheric, kind of like 1984, where it's a very closed off utopia. Well, it's interesting that you bring up The Running Man because I've read the book and I'm fairly certain that King even mentioned The Prisoner at one point. Oh, really? Even he knows, man. Even he knows. For those who don't know, in recent years, the story editor, I think was either in the 90s or early 2000s,

[00:08:17] who worked on both Danger Man, which was known in the United States as Secret Agent Man, in which again, Austin Powers used the theme, as well as every other car commercial. And, but yeah, even though Patrick McGoohan starred on both and was the credited creator of The Prisoner, the story editors and writing staff for both were pretty much the same.

[00:08:42] And the story editor later did some spinoff books and basically indicated that these were in the same universe. And McGuhen like heard about it in an interview. And he's like, no, no, that's not how I played it. I'm like, well, you created it, dude. But looking at this in hindsight, the character backstory might be different, but he's pretty much playing it the same. And I'm not trying to downgrade his ability as an actor or anything,

[00:09:07] but it's like it kind of be like, I don't know if you I don't want to again, I don't want to do comparisons because then it'll sound derogatory. But like, generally when actors get get typecast, you can pretty much if you really want to say, hey, this role is pretty much like that other beloved role of theirs. Well, OK, so like if James Arness after doing Gunsmoke for all these years,

[00:09:36] then did a different role of a retired sheriff, of course, he's going to think that that's Matt Dillon. Right. It's a spiritual sequel. If if he does something like that, you know, is like even if you want to call it a homage, it's pretty much what he's playing, you know, is it's like, well, I read that they didn't want to give his that character name to him in the prisoner because then they would have had to have paid something to the guy who created Danger Man.

[00:10:04] Oh, actually, actually, Magoon has said that it's not the same guy. And I can kind of see where we're both sides lie, but I'm I take the man in his word and it's not John Drake. Maybe it's like Inception, where if you blink hard enough, maybe it is. I don't know.

[00:10:34] I kind of want to go on the writer's take because he wasn't in the writer's room, but I can understand if he didn't play the role that way. Yeah. And but to be to be fair, it is. It you're either going to love it or hate it. It is very polarizing and or in some cases be confused by it. Well, that's a given. That's a given regardless of which side of the fence you're on. It is a it is a deep, deep series.

[00:11:02] And when you consider all that was jam packed into those 17 episodes. Yes, absolutely. I actually just went back and watched the last episode before this. The last episode is the one that's more off the wall than any of the other episodes, I think. It really is. It's up there, definitely.

[00:11:23] But I think I think I'm starting to pick up on it a little bit more as like, OK, OK, I get what you guys are trying to do with this. Well, I mean, if you're going to make it, I mean, it's about conformity versus individualism. Mm hmm. I mean, it's if you put if you didn't have the sci fi thing, you would probably think, is this a fictional, you know, war concentration camp or something dressed up, you know?

[00:11:53] Yeah. And there and there are so many other topics in there that you've got predestination versus determinism. You've got like, like I said, order versus chaos. You have so many different elements to it and. You could watch it a thousand times and you'll pick up on something new or something you hadn't seen before or something you hadn't thought about. It just the there was a game within a game within a game going on here.

[00:12:20] There was an episode where the people of the village were playing on a giant chess board. And that that's an that's just a amazing allegory to what number six was is doing there. And pretty much every show has acknowledged it. I think the X-Files guys, you know, they did the show that was based on a comic called Harsh Realm. That was a love letter to that as Star Trek.

[00:12:46] Almost every one franchise has done at least one human chess board sequence homage and number six. I think that was a deliberate take for Battlestar Galactica. The female villain, Cylon. But yeah. Oh, yes. And was this the first thing you all had seen Magoo Han in or had you seen him in some of his other movies? Well, I think that's the first thing I can remember seeing them in was Baby the Lost Legend.

[00:13:17] Ah! Playing the bad guy. There's a deep cut. I had seen Ice Station Zebra and Scanners and Mary Queen of Scots, but I didn't recognize him in it. I knew the name. I probably the first thing I ever saw him in was I heard his voice in Treasure Planet. And then I saw him as the evil king in Braveheart. And then I the role that stuck out to me the most was being the Southern judge in A Time to Kill. Okay, I am doing a quick IMDB.

[00:13:45] He's the warden of Escape from Alcatraz. What I haven't seen him in. I think Escape from Alcatraz is ironic because there he's being the warden instead of the prisoner. Well, there you go. It's gotta be ironic. It's gotta be deliberate. Yeah. And what's more is that he also did a few episodes of Columbo. Yeah. Those are some of my favorites because I've just really grown attached to him as an actor. But in some of those roles, he played one of them, he played a spy.

[00:14:15] One of them, he played a military school leader. And another one, he played something as simple as somebody who cremates bodies. How serious? I don't think I've seen that one. That's wild. But it's a variation on things, but it's still, each one is a little bit different. It's still the same Magoon. You still have the same presence.

[00:14:42] It's just small little details that he adds that make, that make each performance stand out. And yeah, with, with the prisoner, I think he, he hit the jackpot. It, he had a lot of, he had a big hand in it. He directed some of the issue, some of the episodes, he wrote some of the episodes and just the story behind the story was really fascinating.

[00:15:08] They were trying, he was trying to get the, get the BBC to give him more, more episodes, but they were just, they were, they weren't happy with what was being produced. So they cut him down and you can kind of tell that in some of the later episodes where things are a little bit minimalist, but they still have that, have that impact. And you definitely get some kind of sense of behind the scenes fighting, but unlike say some of these other shows, it doesn't really stick out like a sore thumb because you're

[00:15:38] still trying to soak up this uncanny premise kind of. Well, my girlfriend and I, we were laughing about, oh, there's the average typical BBC budget cut. We're at the second season, mid season budget cut. There we are. Yeah. It happens all the time. Yeah. Doesn't matter how good your show is.

[00:16:09] Yep. And by the, yeah. But the thing of it is, is even, even with those cutbacks, the, the show remains, remains very popular even to this day. Mm hmm. It is cool that it's on just about every platform, Roku to be, um, I'm really was impressed by the presentation of it. Like it didn't look like old VHS rips or any static where you see like some lines above the presentation or anything.

[00:16:39] Um, it is funny though, how, if you want to go on YouTube, you can find this Canadian movie and produced, uh, cheap movie. McGoohan was in from 1981 called Kings and Desperate Men. Mm hmm. It's just a hostage thriller set on Christmas Eve. And apparently he wanted to sue the creators of die hard. It's like, it's too similar. I'm like, but you look at it, even though it sounds a bit like a dog day afternoon or some

[00:17:09] other hostage thriller, there's not much in common. There's a lot of walking outside and it's an interesting curiosity, but this, I didn't have issues with the sound like others complained, but the camera work was very underwhelming. It took me out of the movie. Mm hmm. But I do applaud Mugu Han for staying busy. And a lot of these articles seem to try to illustrate like he's sounding like a diva is

[00:17:38] like, no, he's opinionated. He's allowed. It's free country. Absolutely. And just, and just the, the little things that he did to make, to make the prisoner stand out. I mean, he literally found the location for the prisoner while doing danger man. Yeah. Yeah. When episodes of danger, I mean, yeah. Episodes of danger man. Right. Yep. Yep.

[00:18:02] Port Marion and they still have, they have a website up and they still, they still embrace the prisoner quite a bit. And you can go online, find any number of fan sites or, or. Geocities. Exactly. The one that, the one that popped up to mind is the one that I kind of follow is called six of one. And it's all about, and they got merchandise, they, they, yeah, photos.

[00:18:32] It's, it truly is a magical place. And it, it adds that surreal element that you're, that really makes it prisoner stand out. Wow. I'm looking up now. They got a bunch of live events. Do they try to keep it looking the same as it did then? Hey, for the most part. Yeah. Man, they, I know they dress up and. Sweet. Yeah. I'm seeing a Simpsons.

[00:19:00] Uh, he's, he's in an episode of the Simpsons as number six. Remember that episode. I need to go back and watch it. A little bit on danger, man. Like I do. It's a very fast paced show. Like he is getting in like a knife or gun or just fist fight every other episode. There's kind of some noirish kind of stuff. I'm not saying that cause black and white, like there's some legit, like very pulpy.

[00:19:29] Well, you have like a, a detective kind of, you know, like a private deck kind of thing where he's like talking over the beginning of the. Yeah. A montage before that was really a thing. And I, I would look at him up a little more. He was offered some James Bond roles, but like, he pretty much was like, you know what? This is going to be my answer to that. So it is very fast paced. It's really impressively for a 60 show. And then they brought it back.

[00:19:54] It was only in color for when it got the season four and it was basically a two part, two parter episode. Yeah. And one of the mandates about his character was he, he doesn't carry a gun. He doesn't want to carry a gun. Yeah. He doesn't want to be identified. He doesn't want to stick out like a sore thumb. He doesn't want to be, even though he does kind of have a private eye personality, like it's definitely more stealthy while.

[00:20:20] And I think it's just way more engaging, like mission impossible is fun, but a little dated in that it kind of. Just kind of focus operates kind of more like a cop show and this one. Yeah, it was definitely more of a just like, let the suspense do the talk in. Let's deliver the dialogue eloquently without boring you or confusing you. And the only thing I had a chance to check out was, and I had to listen to all but like two episodes.

[00:20:47] I had to listen to it at work and I got through about 14 or 15 episodes and they were all from season one. They're all 25 minutes long. And I know in later series, they went to an hour or so. Yeah. Yeah. 48, 49 minutes or something like that. The other cast members are pretty cool too. They don't, even though it's his show, it doesn't feel like they're just proper, they're just proper, but they're just very handsome or sexy looking, but not to the point

[00:21:17] where you're like, they can't act their way out of a paper bag. Yeah. And the thing about it is that I see the prisoner is both a parody of the danger man premise, but also an homage to it because there, because there are some action scenes in the prisoner and there are some, some moments that you could say, well, this is definitely just, I

[00:21:44] could see where this inspired by danger man, or at least has some underpinnings to it. But, but, but, but, but, but, but they, they, he constantly worked on that dichotomy. The, the spy that's in, in enemy territory, you don't know who to trust. And then it kind of plays over the top where they've got the evil organization that's kind of trying to, trying to get information out of him. He's like, it's not for sale. Oh, just, yeah. Basically just one question.

[00:22:14] They keep asking him over and over again that he never answers. You know, why did you resign? That's the only question they ever asked him. Right. He doesn't have an answer is like, he's taking it to his grave. Um, and I mean, endanger man, it was cool how he, he put on all kinds of accents. He is actually doing what a spy is supposed to, which is blend in. So I think that's why it gets extra point. It's often ranked as one of the top spy shows. And I got no argument for that.

[00:22:42] Like in, in the first series, he's listed, he's supposed to be like an American, American agent. And then later they connect him, you know, and he's working with NATO. You can sell him around, but he's going to blend in. He, he, he never, I don't ever get a sense that he lost his identity, but he's going to blend in whatever the scenery is instead of stick out like a sore thumb. He's going to, yeah, he's, it's kind of like to go, go a little deeper on that.

[00:23:10] It's almost like it was a precursor to the pretender. Oh yes. Yeah. Oh man. Deep cuts geeking out here. Uh, but yeah, I mean, even though the pretender plays up some awesome comedy noir, like he's like, he's enjoying his tea, but he's also will treat it like it's going to be in this last sip, you know, cause he knew he, he, he somehow is like patient yet observant.

[00:23:39] And it kind of gives you a sense of like, okay, yeah. What, what do you do if you know that you can't ever get comfortable? So just, you know, embrace every food, like it's your last, you know, take any free stuff. It might be the last time you're here. Yeah. Exactly. Well, uh, even with, um, more new stuff, uh, today, um, sat down to watch, uh, uh, uh,

[00:24:08] what's it called? How am I blanking? Um, slow horse. Uh, severance. Severance. Yes. Severance. I had a friend. So on that first big reveal at the end of the first episode, um, where you see his boss is his neighbor and my girlfriend just, uh, slipped out. It's just came right out of her. He seen you.

[00:24:41] Yeah. I, I was just in hysterics for a while after that one. It rode my mind. But you know, it just, there's that, that, uh, idea of a surveillance state. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. And going back to the Columbo episodes, he, he says that, or he'd make some motion kind of like he did on the prisoner. And every time that shows up, I crack up laughing because it's, he did the thing. He's doing a signature move.

[00:25:11] He can't escape it. He's embracing it. Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll go another step. Um, still in the British TV genre. A step on the chess piece. Oh, no, actually something slightly different. Something, something based sort of, sort of in the same genre as your danger man and the prisoner. Um, um, Jerry and Sylvia Anderson's the protectors. Mm. Yes. Robert Vaughn.

[00:25:37] You can, and it's odd that they kind of play your national spies kind of thing. They're protecting people. And yet you have the guy who was a man from uncle kind of playing the same character that Magoon did in danger man. Yeah. Was he not available? He's probably doing Columbo episodes or something like that. I don't know. Mm. He's just standing by the side, reading the comments.

[00:26:06] Uh, yeah, I, and I mean, with the prisoner, you're a sci fi thing. Just, it makes sense that they want to go there. And even though he's like a retired spy, he's again, he's spying on the people spying on him kind of, you know, I definitely see a lot of the matrix influence in it. You know, it's like the whole Mr. Anderson, you know, it's like they got their eye on him. And they're.

[00:26:35] Mr. Number six. Mr. Number six. Yeah. I'm not a number. I am a free man. I am a free man. Yeah. And. It's so well. And then. The, the rubber bubble ball. Rover. The killer capture ball. Yeah. Rover. The rovers. Yeah. Yeah. But. That to me. Go ahead. That to me seemed like the, the biggest sci fi element there.

[00:27:04] There's other sci fi elements in it too, but they're more low key that, that killer capture ball rovers. The most sci fi thing I saw in it. That I can recall. I love also the village inhabitants. They're acting like this is just a normal day. And it's like, this is not normal at all. The thing is, is that the, the most or the more sci fi elements are really sci fi.

[00:27:30] If you understand how completely out of medical or psych psychological possibility they really are. Well, if you think about like that final episode, I mean, there was a, it was a continuation from the previous episode. It seemed like. Yes. It was. The character dies.

[00:27:55] Or one of the characters that was giving him trouble in that, that episode before he dies and then he comes back. Oh, you're talking about Leo McCurden. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two characters. One who had died. Well, it goes back to two. Was arguably my favorite episode. The Western episode. Yes. Oh man. Which one was he? The guy singing dumb bones. Yes. Okay. Cause see, I, I was, I can remember, I had to listen to most of it at work cause I couldn't watch it.

[00:28:26] It was something like Alexa something. Let me see. Uh, I. It's like, um, do not forsake me. Oh my darling. Cause I. No, that can't be it. No living in harmony. That's it. Living harmony. Okay. Living in harmony. Yeah. Uh, I found some cool trivia on like the very final episode.

[00:28:54] Um, apparently it was very controversial cause this is before people were open to having obscure and open interpretation movies and TV, you know, everything had to be standalone and McGoo Han did that cause he literally wanted to disappear. He was getting hounded by the media. Uh, his own house. And he was just like, yeah, I'm going to baffle them. I'm going to blow their mind to where they're, they're going to be too busy complaining about

[00:29:23] the show while I step away. And, uh, you mean he purposely pissed people off and like, yeah, that's why he's like, let's make it be open. Cause like, yeah, he's not in the writer's room, but he's basically giving them premises. Like, let's do this. Let's do that. I did. Uh, when I was hearing all you need is love. And I'm like, I'm surprised they've been able to release this on DVD and so many times with the Beatles music.

[00:29:48] Cause that's a big bunch of copyright royalty, but apparently Oh, Dahani Harrison, the son of George Harrison stated that the Beatles were supposed to be in a movie similar to the prisoner coincidentally enough that McGoo Han would write and direct, but that project fell through. But given how he had that connection, he convinced them, I need to use the song. It's going to be ironic. You know, all you need is love in the final episode. That's because Ringo needed the money. Ringo, baby.

[00:30:17] Ringo needs it. Um, yeah, I do love how they almost make it. Mr. Jenny. We have dealers to pay. Don't you love also how in some episodes McGoo Han doesn't receive any onscreen acting credit, making you almost feel like it's a real thing. Well, some of the writing credits he took different, he took pseudonyms for those. Yeah, he did. Yeah. It was like Patty Mac.

[00:30:45] I think it was one of them or yeah, he's pulling a Carol O'Connor. He's, he's redoing stuff if he doesn't like it and still getting paid, but not also. It's not uncommon, you know, if you just want to be known for one thing and not for your other talent, you know, you do that. Um, uh, but yeah. Yeah. And, uh, one of the episodes that kind of still kind of rings true today is one called the

[00:31:15] change of mind. That's when we're number six is a, is deemed a mutual. Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. I have some interesting phrases. Uh, how did, how did say that wouldn't happen in America these days? Would it? No, definitely wouldn't happen in China. No, no, no, no, no. Oh wait, they have a whole. We wouldn't have anyone threatening to shoot their opposition on site now. Would we? No.

[00:31:45] Yeah. Yeah. You can pretty much infer that these guys treating them like a human Guinea pig are pretty fascist. Yeah. But I love how when he's interrogating the other like underling for like two episodes straight, I can't think of any other 60 show that was this one of the first ones to do recaps like previously on. It's hard to tell. It was 62 that that came out. Yeah.

[00:32:15] Started. Not, not very common. And this was 67. Uh, well, I mean, it'd be hard to say, considering that, um, you have all the cereals that, um, they kept, yeah. Started with a, a recap. So it was, if anything on, so there you go.

[00:32:40] It was probably the first, one of the first using a lot of serialized stuff, but I also don't know if it's been shown on cable since I know any released this show on DVD initially. So they probably aired it a bunch in the nineties. Well, I went with what you guys told me. I found it on to be, and I also found it on Amazon prime, which I think was also mentioned. Yep. Yes. Well, mine's going to be probably the obscure one. I found it on night flight.

[00:33:10] Nice. Oh shit. In between episodes of dynaman. Talking to night collection. Your Russ Meyer collection. Perfect. I just, I just found out there's some that are on Amazon or on, um, Fandango at home. Now that I like four of them, I purchased them. Mm. You do you, Gil.

[00:33:41] What can I say? If something appeals to me, I'm going to grab it. Do it. Do it. Always than one. That is what she said. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, this is the overall, the show, the show went in so many different directions. You, you didn't know what was going on. And the real, we talked about this controversy with fallout.

[00:34:08] Like a lot of it comes down to the fact that McGowan was trying to subvert expectations. Mm-hmm. Everything was building up, building up, building up. And fans wanted to see a resolution. Yep. But then when fallout came out and there really wasn't a clear cut resolution, he doesn't escape necessarily.

[00:34:33] Um, and it almost seems like he, like he goes back into the cycle. Yes. He's the, he's the. Well, that's, uh, on that note, I literally said, uh-oh, at the end of the show, when the butler went into the house, but the door automatically opened. Mm-hmm.

[00:34:59] Someone else is going to take his place now that the main man's. No, no, no. No. But the thing is, is that the, his door didn't automatically open in the beginning of the series. Mm-hmm. He opened it by hand. Mm-hmm. But all the doors within the, the village, um, they all opened automatically. Ah. Just like this house did. Yes.

[00:35:29] And it's literally shot for shot from the very beginning of the, the opening sequence. So the, when they played the theme, you see Magoo and driving that car going to the, going to the house. It's literally just, you don't find a new guy. It's the same guy. He just repeats the cycle. Yeah. I was gonna say, it's just the, they're starting the cycle over again. Starting a new factory farm, basically. Yeah.

[00:35:57] And the thing of it is, is that, that, that has been discussed. There's been philosophy courses on, there've been college courses for the love of Pete, talking about the philosophy and the, and the, and the imagery and stuff like that from the prisoner. And. It's bloody brilliant, man. It. Yeah. But in, in an interview with Magoo, and I think it was for Canadian television, he really, literally just lays it out.

[00:36:23] I'm for those of you who have not seen it and want to, I won't spoil it. But once you see everything in its place, then it's like, Oh yeah, that's what he was getting, getting to. But it's also the right kind of interpretive, you know, it's definitely David Lynchian. It's not Christopher Nolan where he's going to divide audiences and you're like, what the hell are you thinking, dude? Yeah.

[00:36:50] If that were the volume, man, that's the thing you need to do. And your movie will be 10 times better. Just turn up the volume. Yeah. Yeah. And if it's Christopher Nolan, we'd still be watching, we'd still be watching fallout today. We'd still be running. No, I, like I said, I had to listen to quite a few. So there were some that kind of confused me.

[00:37:15] Um, you know, he did get out in a way from the, from the village. Um, but one was like, he was inside his mind in one episode. Yep. Yeah. It's almost phantasm level where you're just like, wait, we're inside his mind. And these guys are outside trying to manipulate what's going on inside his mind. Yeah. And then there's another one where it was like Western. Yeah. Yep. Was that another one inside his mind kind of thing?

[00:37:41] No, no, it was up on a hill. They had completely, uh, made a recreation Western village, um, but had like, somehow made him interact with it.

[00:38:03] It was, it's, it was weird whether it was supposed to be cardboard cutouts or there were actually people there at any point. Yeah. Oh yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. And I love the camera men who are always like watching them and sometimes they address it. They're like, Hey, get out of my face. And near the end, they kind of, they finally have their vengeance when he gets all the other

[00:38:31] guys to rebel, get machine guns. That's that final episode again. Right? Yep. And I like, like, like everyone else is doing, I'm trying not to give it all away, but it is just kind of like, again, like if you like any of the other stuff we've mentioned, you're definitely going to like it. If you just want something that is definitely the interpretation of the word mind blowing, it's going to go there, but it again, like you, you'll definitely see influence on other.

[00:39:01] Uh, people and chances are if they're a TV writer, it's one of their favorite shows. And especially if they're in the sci-fi working in the sci-fi genre, it's just, yeah. Well, I think one of the first big things we should talk about, and I hope I wouldn't step in on anybody's toes there, but, um, is the, the, uh, um, back and forth between number

[00:39:26] six and number two, you know, the, uh, revolving, uh, cast of number two, but there's what only one number two that, that actually reappears in the entire series. I thought there was more than, I thought there was a couple that reappeared as number two. Yeah. At first I thought they were getting killed off, but then I saw those guys come back and I'm like, um, okay, so maybe they don't get killed off. Sorry. You're going to say something.

[00:39:57] Each episode has, seems to have different interpretations and I, it, it seems to be depending on how they do what they do and where they're at in the company. Hmm. Yeah. And, um, it goes beyond that. Um, DC put out a graphic novel on the prisoner. It's

[00:40:24] last number six. And then I don't know what was like maybe 10, 20 years after fallout. And I, if I remember it was called shattered visage. Hmm. I had it for a while. I don't know what I did with it. I, but, but knowing me, I'd probably have something stupid. How old was the story at? When did it come out? I want to say it was like mid to late eighties. If I remember eighties. Okay.

[00:40:50] They, I can remember seeing covers of that, but I can't, I never did read the story. So I didn't know anything about it. Yeah. It it's like, it's sort of a mind trip, which obviously it was with prisoner. But it is wild how this has been so obscure and yet it's found an audience every generation. And again, it isn't, it's like a word of mouth kind of thing. Yep. And it's even, and there

[00:41:17] are even some influences in a game called we happy few. There are some element. We happy few. Yeah. We happy few a lot. Oh Jesus. Dog and his boy. That mask alone. Dog and his boy. Dog and his boy is that's the one with the another big Don Johnson. Yeah. Don Johnson. Yeah. And they eat a girl in the end or something.

[00:41:40] I think that's how it is. Remarkably good taste. Oh, that movie. Yeah. Talk about a movie. That's pretty obvious. And yet you see people wanting to reinterpret it. I'm like, no, no, no. Tell me you're stupid without telling me. No, it's the end of the world. That's all you need to know. And everyone's like, oh, this is sexist. It was like, well, chances are he was, but he's

[00:42:09] brilliant. So it's not the point of the movie or the show. Just watch the damn movie, read the book and then shut up and just reread it again. Don't tell me what it is or isn't supposed to be. Trust me, if you actually sat down, it's pretty apparent. Well, I kind of come away with the idea that after watching the prisoner, now I've got to watch Zardoz. Oh, God. Oh, yeah. If you want to sit down and watch that one. You

[00:42:38] haven't seen it all yet. My parents would keep seeing the memes of that. All. Oh, perfect choice of words for that one. But my sister has named her. I kid you not her car after that. I was in a mankini with a mankini. And that's a dead one on road. A horse and had a giant gun. John Borman was making Lord of the Rings and I said he was crazy. Um, yeah, every time all in rebellion.

[00:43:07] And I don't know when memes of it started becoming a thing, but like I would I would see him and people would ask me, uh, Cam, you're a movie, Bob. Have you seen it? And I was being like, are you sure you want me to tell you about it? Sean Connery in a red diaper. Of course they're going to mean that. Yeah. Or just right. So. With a four foot braid. You know what? You know who else I was? I was breeding at the time. I'm your best mother. Yes.

[00:43:38] She was a slut, but my kind of slut. Um. Oh, God. And yeah, I, I didn't find it just even just silly how we've had all these different sci fi cult movies and horror anthologies and fantasy epics. And I think the reason they become cult movies is people don't know how to interpret them or market them is like the prisoner. I'm pretty sure everyone knew what they were making. And yet somehow because he was a big,

[00:44:07] McGoo Han was a big TV name. They just left him alone enough times. When they came down to a time crunch, that's when he started to really take over a lot more of the, not just the acting part, but the writing, the directing, the right. Yeah. And try to, like I said earlier, cram in as much as they could into that, into those 17 episodes.

[00:44:28] And to be honest, I would have loved to have seen just how far out they could have taken it if they had only had a sense of what, what they had on their hands. Yeah, it was miss. It was a mismatch. Yes, it was at times misguided. Sometimes it was utterly confusing, but it was, it was a work of brilliance and madness all at the same time. Yeah. I mean, like it's the right kind of confusing.

[00:44:55] It's not to the point where you're like, is everyone making this up? Are they on a fever dream or too much cocaine? Maybe they did, but it didn't feel like it. It doesn't feel like someone was high. It just, there's kind of a point to it, but, but it drifts, you know, you can't quite see where he's going with the point of it. Right. It's some kind of distorted vision as opposed to, I'm making this up as like, hold on. It feels very British. Yes, it does.

[00:45:27] It has to be said, God damn it. It feels very British. I banged your mother last night with fruit back. Um, the thing of it is, is that the, he does, he does put in little hints along the way. So that when you finally get to, to fall out, it's, it's like, Oh, I remember this from this episode. And I remember this from the episode. And then it, a lot of it is wordplay.

[00:45:51] A lot of it is just little turns of a phrase or little things that you see, but it all built up to the, to the overarching theme. Attention's earned without just feeling like a filler. Yes. Exactly. We're in a minotaur maze. In fact, this is probably what the Island of Misfit Toys actually looks like now. Sorry, Santa. Um, I was just going to say, he's just, you know, he's nonconformist. Nonconformist.

[00:46:19] I'm going to quote something from what he said in the first episode. Look at you go. I love it. I will not make any deals with you. I've resigned. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own. My life is my own. God, see, he already has our trust and our likeability and we don't have to spend any more time on him. He's got our trust. He's the audience's viewpoint. And kind of like danger, man.

[00:46:46] Isn't that like the first thing he says or about the first thing he says? Pretty close to it. Yeah. Very close. He doesn't have to rely on a weapon most of the time. It's just, he, he's in mind game mode. He's like, okay, I'll study you while you probe me. You know? We'll return after these messages. All right, folks, Hal Pack here. We've got a 90-minute weekly Shack Stop. It's growing all over the world.

[00:47:15] Find it at 2 p.m. and 10 p.m. Eastern time on Mondays, then 3 p.m. on Wednesdays, then 7 p.m. on Thursdays. You can catch it on many more radio stations, 99.9 KERV, 1 p.m. Central time, 2 p.m. Eastern on Mondays. Then catch the Encore on Thursdays at 5 p.m. Central time, 6 p.m. Eastern.

[00:47:39] Then catch it Wednesday mornings at 11 a.m. Eastern time, 10 a.m. Central, 1077 K-Twins. Then hang out with us Wednesday afternoons on MXTR and Hal Shack Radio, 3 p.m. Eastern time. But then Thursday, get up bright and early with us on 95.7 Web Radio at 6 a.m. Pacific time, 9 a.m. Eastern. Of course, we've got your Friday covered as well.

[00:48:07] 12 p.m. Eastern time on MXTR FM and 10 p.m. Eastern time, 9 p.m. Central, 1077 K-Twins. Find everything on HalShack.com. If you like small town mystery, crazy news, and wild history, then the Florida Men on Florida Man podcast is for you.

[00:48:32] Each week, Josh Mills and Wayne McCarty bring you the absolute best Florida has to offer. So if you're looking for a show that's safe for the family, but funny enough to help you escape everyday life, then listen to the Florida Men on Florida Man podcast. That's Florida Men, plural, on Florida Man podcast. Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win in a fight between Goku and Superman? Hi, I'm James Gavsey, and on the Who Would Win show, me and my co-host Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world

[00:49:01] and debate fictional battles between characters from comics, movies, and video games. We got a new show every week, and almost always am I the winner. Yeah, not true, Ray. In the past, we've discussed such matches as Captain America vs. Darth Vader, Solid Snake vs. the Iron Giant, classic matchups like Robocop vs. Terminator, and even the Muppets vs. Sesame Street. That one was crazy. So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate, check out the Who Would Win show wherever you get your podcasts,

[00:49:31] or check us out at whowouldwinshow.com. Well, and the funny thing about a weapon, especially a gun, is that's part of the suspicion throughout the episode, or the series, is did he quit because of moral reasons? Do we need to push him to be a killer? Right. It's kind of, it's really unimportant.

[00:50:00] You don't even know, technically, if he's even a good guy or a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah. But either way, it's wrong what they're doing on this island. We know that. We don't have to have any ethics question on what we think. Yeah, and the thing about it is, too, is that up until near the end, number six is very defensive. He's always trying to build up his own defenses against whatever they're doing. And then he switches it. He says, you know what? I'm tired of playing defense.

[00:50:30] I'm going to go on offense. And that's what led to the last two episodes, in my opinion, is him switching and saying, you know what? I'm sick of this. I'm going to do whatever I can to figure out who number one is. Yes. It's definitely a lot of that same kind of just, all right. They think he's surrendering. He's like, no, no, I'm just, I'm drawing you in. Yeah.

[00:50:58] And that, in my mind, that the use of his mind is the greater weapon than any gun he could have had on the island or in the village. Yeah. Well, that's a definite comparison with Danger Man then, too. That's what I was trying to say. Yeah. It's like, he doesn't have to rely on a gun. He just relies on the mega mind. So, I'm going to ask the big question without spoilers. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Do we believe that we learn who number one is?

[00:51:28] There was a face shown at one point, wasn't there, towards the end of the last episode? Yes, there was. There is something shown. But that's why I'm asking, with each individual interpretation, do we feel that the identity of number one is revealed? It's a good question. Did it? Did it? I mean, was he a previous character in the show? Ah. Yes. Yeah.

[00:51:58] We can't give away too much. But to answer the question, absolutely. Because, and it kind of, it didn't make sense at the time, but after I listened to Magoo and talk about it and talk about the overarching theme, it's just like, okay, that does make sense. And the more I thought about it, it's like, oh, yeah, that's why number one is who number one is. Hmm.

[00:52:24] See now, and like I said, I listened to most of the episodes, except for the first episode in the last episode. It would make a great audio drama. And, well, there were some things going on that I couldn't see that apparently would have been nice to have seen. But, yeah, I didn't know if he showed up in the first episode at all before another episode. And the sets are pretty damn good.

[00:52:48] I don't know the budget on it or anything, but like, even people who are going to nitpick and talk about dated stuff, like, it only adds, the set design is probably the biggest star for me. Like, it just only, it welcomes your thought into, you know, just, it takes your guard down. It's like, okay, this is not what you're going to expect. This is also not any kind of island you've ever been on. Is it an island?

[00:53:17] Right. Because, yeah. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I don't know. Well, it seems like they drive away from the village and they're back in London. No, it... I watched it again, and you can fairly assume a long drive. Okay. You can take from that last episode.

[00:53:49] But at least it's not in your face. I don't know how long it is from one country in Europe to another. This is still a pretty good finale, because like, it's not, it's not something worth arguing over, you know? It's not like, we're angry, we want answers. It's like, no, that's the ending. Well, no, no, no, no. I'm not arguing about it. No, I'm not saying you are. It's the idea of... Well, when it first aired, it led to argue. Right.

[00:54:17] Because like, how much continuity is there versus incontinuity to kind of determine, you know, dream versus reality? Um, um, sanity versus mental break? Mm-hmm. Well, they did leave that ambiguous. I mean, for all we know, it could be another attempt with them trying to get inside his head. Maybe.

[00:54:43] And that's, that's another thing that I love about the way it ends. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, um, if you're even just a fan of drama, just watching two people interact, Once Upon a Time is an exceptional episode to watch.

[00:55:09] Because Leo McCurn and Patrick McGowan are truly playing off each other. And there are some stories about how McGowan mistreated, um, mistreated the number two, Leo McCurn. And it was to bring out the best possible performance out of him. Yeah, and it's not really uncommon.

[00:55:31] Like, if people are playing, you know, cat and mouse or nemesis roles, usually they won't interact with each other because they don't, they want the tension to be real instead of getting comfy. And then they, you know, free themselves up at the premiere. It, it, it, it doesn't make sense to outsiders, but to those familiar with the industry, it's very common. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I, I don't mind that, you know, who cares?

[00:55:59] As long as you don't, you know, piss on someone's salad, who cares? You know? If you are, you should probably switch to the ranch dressing. I don't know. If he's, if he resorted to that kind of behavior today, it wouldn't really fly too well. No, no. I just mean in general, like, just, no one got tripped. No one walked off the set and, you know, went on vacation in the middle of an expensive shoot. You know, it's like, that's fine.

[00:56:24] You know, it's like, it's really no different than the method acting, which gets a bad rep because people have seen it be overblown or done. But if you're talking just in character, that's generally pretty solid and not uncommon. It's just, it doesn't mean be an asshole like your villain. It just means I'm talking like my character is. And that's where you just get the PA to deliver lunch to the person, you know, without, you know, breaking their concentration.

[00:56:54] I mean, Jared Leto. Oh, God. And he's been on an island. Enough about that, Rick. Oh, yeah. Mm-mm-mm. Do not want. No. So that's cool that you were mentioning some video game from 2016 that got inspired by it.

[00:57:21] I am surprised there wasn't a video game like a CD-ROM game with the resurgence in the 90s. Yeah. And that's something I thought about, too, is like, this is such a cultural phenomenon that why haven't people jumped at the chance to do a prisoner game? Yeah. Why haven't they tried to remake it? They did. They did. They did? Yeah. Yep.

[00:57:50] There was a six episode miniseries from, I think it was AMC, starring Jim Caviezel. Oh. And it's not good. Oh. I was not even aware of that. You just said the name Jim Caviezel, and I just, oh. I'll tell you that. Isn't that such a fallen star? Yeah. Oh, Sir Ian McKellen couldn't even drag it to a satisfying end.

[00:58:19] Although, I will say, the last episode of that version of The Prisoner is pretty good. It does a good job at filling in the blanks that we had, but believe me, if you're a fan of The Prisoner, do not seek out the Jim Caviezel version. Stick with Magoo and... I gotta wonder, I mean, if it's even available anywhere right now. Oh, what did Tom just say? Come on, he's Jesus. It's everywhere. He's at AMC, right? Jesus is everywhere. Yep. I believe it was AMC. Yeah.

[00:58:49] I remember... Or AMC or A&E, now that I think about it. Okay. I never saw it, because A, like, I... It was a remake, and so I was just, like, not open to it. I'm like, I love you, Ian McKellen. You know, Jim, you're whatever. Yeah. He's the Caviezel. I just realized Jim Caviezel and Jesus Christ both have the same initials.

[00:59:15] Oh, believe me, he realized that a lot sooner than you did. It's a shame he's a dick in real life. He realized that while making that damn movie. Yeah. He's on a whole new plane these days. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, I... Person of interest is a good show, but... Yeah. I have trouble getting people into it, because he's just been such a nutcase in public. You're just like, jeez.

[00:59:47] Ugh. But... Anywho... Yeah, I haven't seen anyone ever bash this or say I couldn't get into it. Like, it seems like it's pretty fast-paced for even the most biggest nitpicker. Like, I... Even Danger Man. I've seen people who are watching and are like, yeah, that's pretty good. And they're not... They're the kind of snobs who won't do anything that's older or black and white. Danger Man was more straightforward. It was more... Yeah.

[01:00:17] Which says a lot. It's like... It's not deliberately confusing, but it is the essence of what you kind of picture a spy life. And I guess because it does it so urgently, you feel... It always has a cold open, and you're like, something's going down. You know? Exactly. Sometimes... There were a few episodes I was watching, and I'm like, he doesn't show up until like midway in the episode. He's like, he's their point of contact for whoever they just introduced. I'm like, interesting.

[01:00:48] See, they were breaking the rules once in a while. They weren't always doing the whole goody-goody, you know, I'm going to give you everything all at once. Well, you know, and the bad guy's not always wrapped up or even taken away at the end of some of the episodes. Yeah. Oh, oh, those are some of my favorite, and it was... A deliberate... It was... Just like real life. A female number two. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, my.

[01:01:17] George the guy would be perfect for a remake. By the way, I just looked up The Prisoner on IMDb. Oof. So you can find it on... So sorry for after saying, don't look it up. Plex, Pluto, Crime Video, Shout Factory TV, Broken Channel, and Tubi. Are you sure they're not just listening to the original show? And they put it underneath...

[01:01:46] Because they do that sometimes, where they'll put it underneath a remake or something. I don't know, but... I'm not going to find out. I'm not going to find out either. It's like that scene in the Star Wars Cantina. I'm going to click on the Amazon app to see... Now you want me to go onto Amazon and look up one-star reviews. Here it is. Didn't understand it.

[01:02:16] When I first looked it up on Amazon, I thought it was for sale only, but apparently they got two separate groupings. They got one that's for sale and then one that you watch as part of the Amazon Prime membership. But just remember, John McGoohan's not for sale. Well, I hope not. He's dead. I know. But even then, it's not for sale.

[01:02:39] Yeah, the remake, they have a Blu-ray for $21. And it's still $25 too much. No! Hey, Wobble! Oh, I just don't want Gandalf torturing me. That's not fun. So did you check out any episodes of Danger Man, Tom?

[01:03:08] Oh, yeah. I've been watching it steadily for a while now. I think it was 83 episodes altogether for that? Yeah, I think so.

[01:03:16] And just some of the acting that he does in Danger Man, it takes it from a generic spy espionage kind of show and brings it up to something that is tense, but still has everything mostly wrapped up by the end of the show.

[01:04:10] Mm-hmm. It's not like they adapted a dense book. You know, just try it. And instead of just, you know, it's not like a bad. It's not like they adapted a dense book and you, the filmmaker, have to or the viewer have to make extra effort to read the material it's based on. It's like, no, it's pretty self-contained. I mean, each episode and just overall, like it's not.

[01:04:40] And again, like, you know, it's not all going to be revealed. You know, it's a mystery show, but it is not. Even though it's a it's a human puzzle is like, OK, yeah. Not all there, but it's mostly there. Did anyone think this was the prisoner was the future? Because he told us his birth date was 1928. Mm-hmm. Oh, dear.

[01:05:09] Well, I. In a world. I kind of kept looking at this in the same way as like a James Bond-esque universe where, you know, behind the scenes they have. This is Spectre. Yeah. Yeah. All the gadgets, all all the things the Nazis are on the damn moon, don't you know? You damn moon.

[01:05:36] And and yet, of course, it's it's 1963. No, no, hell, it's 1965. It's 1966. It is the future. Three years in the future. Something like that. And fun fact, winner gives his date. That's his that's McGowan's actual birth date. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. I figured it was at least close to his age if that I didn't know for sure.

[01:06:04] I mean, you look at it with anything like the James Cameron's TV show, Dark Angel, you know, had it set in an alternate 2019, 2020. But it wasn't where the technology was like so drastically different to where it got in the way of the narrative. Same thing with Escape from New York. But that aired that aired 20 years before that time.

[01:06:23] But what I'm getting is even though they were they picked a date and ran with it, they didn't overdo the technology so much to where it's distracting for one of the year. Actually, I've been same thing with like Predator 2 or Escape from New York. Alternate. Captain Power. Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future. Captain Power. When was that set? That was set during, I want to say, look.

[01:06:54] It was set during the 22nd century. OK. Yeah. So. And Lee, as long as you just stick to your vision and just say that that's where we are, like, that's what we're doing. And just. You know, there's always going to be some asshole who refuses to go along with anything you toss at the screen. But if you just you believe everything you're saying, the truth wins out.

[01:07:25] Unless you're a politician. No, lying is a winning combination for them. I did not agree with that statement. It all depends on what your definition of lie is. And I believe I am telling the ultimate truth here. And you can take that to the bank.

[01:07:58] Oh, man. Oh, where were we again? Meanwhile, back to the main point. We're in the village. In the freaking village. It looks like a village, but is it a really a village? Yeah. Who are you? The new number two. What do you want? Information. You don't get it. By hook or by crook. We will. By hook or by crook.

[01:08:27] And he does have a good voice. So, I mean, I do understand totally why Patrick had some brief voice acting gigs. It's just interesting because there's plenty of people who are great on screen, but not good voice actors. So I can see where it was. There were some episodes. I mean, like I said, I listened to it. There are some episodes where I'm sitting there. This is supposed to be Patrick McGowan, but it doesn't sound to me like Patrick McGowan. So he was trying to be somebody else, I think.

[01:08:57] Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if they redubbed him a few times or if he was absent a few days or vice versa. He did. He filled him with someone else's voice. But that's the right kind of cooks in the kitchen. There's a bunch, but there's not too many. And they all pretty much spoke the same deal. So the writers are interpreting as the same spy material. And he's adding the sci-fi aspect. And it's not like they fired.

[01:09:26] He's doing a lot of the directing, but it's not like they fired any of the crew. And. Someone clearly got the gist of it. So I wonder. Well, it wasn't the people at the BBC. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. What the hell is this? Yeah, but they recorded over half the original episodes of Doctor Who. True. Yep. I'm not saying. Again, none of us are saying we respect their opinion.

[01:09:55] We're just saying it's a story. That was back way before, I guess, syndication started to become a thing, wasn't it? Yeah. We've lost so many episodes of Doctor Who, but we can still watch every damn episode of Friends. Tell me they're to God. Let me slip my wrist first. I've even ended up doing this with my mother a few times where we got digital now for cable and we got to select the app and everything.

[01:10:25] And she wants to do the channel, you know, just channel flips like she used to do. And I'm like, don't just one look at this guy. Nothing remotely is going to be the kind of stuff you watch. So you might as well just stay on Nick at night because nothing fucking else in your wheelhouse. What if I want to do a movie? My mom is 79. She's going to be 80 soon. And I showed her how to use Roku.

[01:10:51] And all she does is look up really old shows like Sherlock Holmes movies and Charlie Chan movies. It's amazing. Many people just want to look at what they could watch. And they're the same kind of people. If they see you doing it, they're like, are you going to watch anything? I'm like, no, I'm bookmarking stuff. I'll watch tomorrow. Well, she likes those. Like I said, she likes those Basil Rathbone, like Sherlock Holmes movies. And, you know, the Riff Trax has done like five of them.

[01:11:19] But she won't watch it with me because she doesn't want to see him being made fun of. Oh, my word. Maybe I want the best of both worlds. Why are you going to be so mean? Why can't I have the best of both worlds? Well, I said, I can't watch him in there with her because I said, I need the Riff Trax for it. It's just that old. It's that kind of movie. Yeah. Oh, no.

[01:11:40] I've gotten to the point where as long as I have somebody sitting next to me that can listen to him and I can feed off of, I can sit and watch any movie. I'll just have my little riffs and comments to throw out the whole time.

[01:12:04] As long as there's somebody for me to feed them to, I won't anger my dad who's the same way. Shut up. His is Westerns. Oh, my God. All the old Westerns. Now, my wife is, luckily, she really got into the Mystery Science Theater Riff Trax stuff. So when we're watching regular shows and movies and stuff, we do the same thing. Some progress is being made.

[01:12:33] And she says I was a bad influence. I'm like, I hope so. Why, thank you. Why, thank you. Oh, my. Oh, my. I aim to please. That's what he said. Yeah. Hopefully, he's got a good aim. I was just thinking. Oh, my God.

[01:13:03] So I guess the porn parody version of this is the Prisoner 69. Too soon? I'm not a number. I'm a sexual position. I resign. That's it. No, the porn version isn't the prisoner. It's the dominant. No. Oh, oh, oh, oh. They say it. And the line would go. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

[01:13:33] Then we'll just have to read you the line. I will be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, debriefed, and numbered. My, my. What else will you do? Settle down. We don't have all day. Actually. Oh, Rover. Oh, then it's got to end. The twist. Okay, now this is getting out of hand. Rover, Rover, touch me all over. Touch me all over.

[01:14:00] But now, at the very end, as a plot twist, a pizza man has to come to the island and, like, snipe him. What? Did you think I was going to make out with you? What? The cable went out. The cable went out. Oh, let me reach it. Around. Dark twist, dark twist. Demented minds think alike.

[01:14:29] Then we have Gertike being, I'm the new number two. Who is number one? Come right here and look in number two. I am surprised with the code names that he didn't almost try to do a I am Spartacus moment. You kind of almost get it. Well, really, he did in an episode. They were, there was a duplicate of them. And number six was number 12. True. So, like, there is a kind of a I'm Spartacus moment, but it's kind of a little downplay.

[01:15:00] You know, he says he is not a number, but why the hell didn't he say who the hell he was? None of them. Well, to quote Salt. That would be telling. It would be telling. It would give the, it would pull the entire rabbit out of the hat. That would be telling. It would be very telling. Exactly. At the same time. At this point, the guest got the reference. The guest got the reference. And to quote Salt-N-Pepa, it's none of your business.

[01:15:29] But, yeah, I mean, it would be funny had they done another season of that and had him just be in an interrogation room the entire time. There'd be, like, a different interrogator coming in. One of them's legit. One of them's a crooked authority figure abusing his power, doing a cover up. And you just yell at him going, there are four lights. Oh, yes. Absolutely. There's a perfect Star Trek inspiration. Telling the interrogator he's. It all goes to Picard.

[01:16:00] All goes to fucking Picard saw this in the future. And so that's what kind of a captain I'm going to be. But, yeah, also to the credibility of it. Yeah, it is kind of it's the perfect kind of overcoming show. So, like, if anything, it does make you want to jog around the blog. You're like, see, this fucker did it. Why can't I? I need to say no more often. It's just. So, yeah, absolutely no normal person on this planet hates any of these shows.

[01:16:30] And those who would generally troll anything are generally not going to spend time on it. So you're good, guys. Check it out. I was going to say the people that didn't watch it are probably people that didn't want to watch it. So they know nothing about it. If there's a bad review, it's probably for someone who had a video playback hiccup. Didn't play. It sucks. One star. Man, I was on shrooms when I watched this, man. I didn't even like it. It made me actually have to think.

[01:17:01] It made me consider other people. I don't like that. Yeah, then Dave came over. He's like, but Dave's not here, man. Oh, yeah, there you go. Imagine if a Nazi's watching it. Well, I hated how he rebelled and got away. Yeah, well, fuck you, Dave. Tom, that's a new one you need to throw in more often. Number two's not here, man. Me too. Not today. Not ever. Dave there?

[01:17:34] Oh, man. I think I have all their movies, but I still need to get like the Corsican brothers. Oh, yeah. That one's pretty cheap right now on Blu-ray, I think. Is it? Mm-hmm. I look mostly for digital anymore because I'm running out of space. What she said? Oh, I'm an artist. I have... I will have all the physical media. I have both.

[01:18:01] Yeah, I'll get the physical media if I can't find it any other way, but... Yeah, and that's where... And I have the... That's how I have my copy of Prisoner. I have the hard... I have the complete edition. They're from A&E, so... There you go. And I'm keeping it for as long as I can. Has it been released on Blu-ray at all? Yeah, it's a good question. There is a Blu-ray I did find.

[01:18:30] It's something like $20, $30. 118 bucks on Walmart and Amazon. Man, 68 bucks if you get a different Blu-ray. Well, the AMC one is on this cheap. This one, the one we've been talking about, that one is a killer. That one's a wallet killer.

[01:18:58] There's another version, a more complete deluxe set that's 129. Man. Choices, man. Choices. Save up. Break your bank just this once. Have a great show. Imprint Television also released one, actually in 2024, that had both Danger Man and Prisoner on it.

[01:19:25] And Via Vision has a $74 prisoner pack that's out of stock right now. And Diabolic DVD has a $97 one. So yeah, guys, break your bank account just this once. You'll be glad you did. Well, I got it free for now, so I'm okay with that. I got it free. So free. Well, not free. I'm rent.

[01:19:53] You know, I'm, you know, paying for Amazon Prime, so. Free and falling. Although it is free on Tubi. Yes. Oh, man. Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, guys, we came. We saw. We conquered. We did. Right. Well, considering we were talking about sex earlier, that one line was, I guess, apropos. Let's talk about sex.

[01:20:23] Maybe. Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about sex. Is that Patrick McGoo on Sing and Salt and Pepper? Nope. That's my uptight white guy. What's the difference? This guy's really uptight. Oh, so Sean Connery. Hold on. No, it's not Sean Connery. I get freaky with the best. Let's ask Trebek's mother. Let's talk about sex, Trebek.

[01:20:55] We can talk about, you know, over here. We're going to talk about sex, baby. We're going to talk over here. We're going to talk about you and me. And then we're going to talk about sex. Jeff Koblum always makes it come around. He always goes through Jeff Koblum. Mm-hmm. Oh, good talk, fellas. Good talk. So, Jeff, anything you would like to plug?

[01:21:27] No, I think I'm good right now. No. Yeah. Get the fuck out of here with that shit. And on a related note, eBay has copies of the Shattered Visage graphic novel. Oh. Oh. Sweet. If you were so inclined. If you're so inclined. I think the most expensive I've seen so far is 20 bucks. Okay.

[01:21:57] Sweet. Well, actually, there's one I just found. It's like 39 and changed. But you can find them. But I guarantee you'll be able to find them cheaper. I liked it very much. I liked it very much, too. Now, shout. Shaken and definitely stirred. Thomas, when did you first become aware of The Prisoner then?

[01:22:23] I first became aware of The Prisoner probably in my teenage years. I'd heard about it. So, it was one of those things that I hadn't... I heard about it before I actually saw it. And when I saw it, it's like... It was like I became one of its biggest fans. It was just... Go ahead. I was just going to say, yeah, I found out about it when I was a teenager, too. But I still didn't get a chance to really see it until like two decades later.

[01:22:55] So, yeah. Your number one customer, Bill. I'm rather new to it. I only kind of just heard about it. I know I've seen plenty of references to it now and then after watching it. But some YouTube video I came across, an essayist was talking about it.

[01:23:20] And I'm certain I didn't finish the whole video because they were getting a little too close into spoiler territory. It's like, I want to know as little as possible. And even as much as you're trying not to, I don't want to know. I'm going to stop here. And... Well, you can talk about it. I forgot about it. Yeah. You can kind of talk about that last episode and try to give it a description. And people will still have to watch it because it's...

[01:23:50] Yep. There's no describing that last episode. Yeah. Don't do it. Especially with just how rigid the rest of the series is. for how anarchistic that last episode is. Yeah. That would be wild, though.

[01:24:17] If you saw a real-life story, someone on Snopes.com reports, you know, real-life, you know, government rebels are inspired by the prisoners to overthrow their third-world country. Yeah. Oh. There was a Captain Marvel series that kind of... I can't remember how many issues it had, but it was a, you know, normal run. Maybe it's a one-shot. Well, it was a normal run. It was 30... There was 30 issues, I think, and there was like two runs.

[01:24:46] It was the same character. It was the son of the original Captain Marvel. And... But the series went on like normal and had told, you know, normal superhero stories or whatever. But when the series came to an end, they kind of stepped outside of the comic book, so to speak. And it ended kind of weirdly that way. Gotcha. Hmm.

[01:25:14] They've been doing something recently like that in DC, haven't they? Kind of, yeah. Well, the Ambush Bug usually does that. Ambush Bug stories usually, you know, many series usually kind of do that. But that's the premise behind the whole series, if you know anything about Ambush Bug. No, I know Ambush Bug, but I mean, like, something within either main canon or... There might be some Doctor Who type scenarios.

[01:25:44] The main Trinity. Wasn't there a Doctor Who episode that had a chess piece, chess board, maze? Something like that? Pretty sure. At some point, yes. They did everything. Go for all 20 plus... They're the Simpsons of sci-fi. So when you're talking main Trinity, you're talking Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't...

[01:26:13] I'm not that up to date on the DC. I'm usually a year behind, basically. Yeah, I've been behind for a little bit, but I thought I saw something... Something... In... More... I don't know. I don't know. There's just something I was watching in a recent video of comic updates. Is that something you watch on YouTube then?

[01:26:43] Just something I had watched recently. I... I don't have the money to keep up on comics like I used to. Neither does Chico. Yes. Chico needed the comics. Yeah, I'm not usually buying the newer stuff, because I don't like paying, you know, four or five bucks for an issue. When I started, I was paying 30 cents an issue.

[01:27:07] You know, and I could if I started even sooner, because I was still reading comics back then, but it was like Bugs Bunny and that kind of stuff. You know, when I was five, I could have been paying 15 cents to 20 cents. But... And now it's like four bucks or more. Oh, boy. No, it's like... I think typically for the big two, it's about $3.99. Um... For cover price.

[01:27:37] Yeah. Um... For normal, which... That's... That's almost how much an old paperback used to cost. But... Well, you know, so I go to the Half Price bookstore and look to see what they have for their comic bins that they have there. Because I look for anything for $3 or less. If I can. Um... And trades.

[01:28:04] And then I've got comics in my collection that I've got like 10,000 comic books. I don't want to go digging for them. So I'll look them up on Comixology and buy them on Comixology. Comixology is good. Batcave.biz is a cool free site. Good picture quality and everything. You can favorite the comics that are uploaded. Yeah, and I have to plug for these guys. I've used them before and they are fantastic. Uh... In Stock Trades. Oh, yep.

[01:28:33] I've used them a few times, yep. In Stock Trades. Yep, and they... As it turns out, they also have a copy of the Shattered Visage for the prisoner. And it's only about $18, $19. Sweet. Let's wait. The more you know. It's been a while since I've used it in Stock Trades, but I have used it. Sweet. I'm bookmarking it now.

[01:29:03] Very cool, very cool. Yeah, don't try going through a direct market to try to find it because you'll have to pay too much. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. It's also frustrating when you want to find a certain comic that is just so rare and you're like, I'll pay, but it's not going to be that much.

[01:29:24] Well, like, yeah, well, Comixology, let's say if there's a storyline that I've never been able to get my hands on, I'll be able to find it on Comixology and I'll buy an issue for $2 or something like that. And sometimes even a dollar. Give me something. Yeah.

[01:29:44] Well, or they'll have, Comixology has a clearance thing where they'll have trades that they'll sell for like, you know, might be $15, $20 or more and you can get it for like $3. Mm-hmm. Nice. I mean, it's not the physical media. It's not the paper. But if what you care about is more as a story, then that's actually the better solution, I would think.

[01:30:08] You want a good deal instead of just something that just feels incomplete or just like you're, I mean, just like whether you should get a movie physically or digitally. It's, it's also is like, am I getting the best possible experience? You know, am I seeing the best version of it? Yeah. There's plenty of comics where you probably don't want the trade paperback.

[01:30:30] You want to watch the actual, read the actual raw material because there's just some other stuff that gets omitted for time or whatever that you want to read. And vice versa is like, yeah, the trade paperback might be better because it's got all the issues. There's less having to track everything down. Well, I'm fine. You know, I turn 58 next week and my old eyes kind of need to be able to make those pictures bigger, you know, on comiXology.

[01:30:59] So I'm finding that's been pretty helpful. Mm-hmm. How old are you, Jeff? Jeff? Um, just shy of 39. Oh, 39? Mm-hmm. You've been a big comic book buyer? Um, at times. Yeah. We're putting you on the spot. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[01:31:26] Well, I, I was pretty consistent comic buyer for the first, like, uh, it's from five years old until I was probably 45. And then after that, I kind of, like, drifted away from the newer stuff. I mean, I'd pick up the newer stuff, you know, if it was a collected trade or something like that. But I wouldn't get, like, the monthly collection. Yeah, and then as well, you brought up comiXology. That, that has been the most popular for mobile users.

[01:31:53] But like you say, you kind of want to just make sure that however you get something, it's, you're not being denied. Like, you've got all the issues. So there's not going to be any, you know, because that's the other thing, too. You, you, you want to make sure there's not any plot holes that are unintentional. Well, that's why, you know, at one point, you know, in like the last 20 years, I collected just by trades. I didn't get, I didn't get individual comics.

[01:32:21] I would get the trades with the, you know, with the complete story in it. Mm-hmm. Or at least the ones that were modified. You're like, here's all parts of this arc, you know, by this artist and writer. Yeah. Oh, and Thomas, you said that story was called what again? Shattered Visage. Shattered Visage. Okay. Lovely. I'll look that up tonight. Good talking to you all once more.

[01:32:50] Um, have a pleasant day. Be seeing you. I'll be seeing you. On an island somewhere. I am not a number. I am not a number. Okay, I'm a free man. I'm free. Oh, God. Hell yeah, Ted Knight. I'm not a number. I'm a free man. Uh-huh. That would have been hysterical.

[01:33:18] Someone comes up to him, like when he's trying to get away free episodes till the finale. Well, we're waiting. We're waiting. Always great having you on, Jeff. Thank you. Guild, thanks for kicking ass. You picked up some big, deep plot points and quotes. And Thomas, always glad we got to make you happy and show you. Talk about something long overdue. Watch the prisoner, kids. Watch it, damn it. You could play it in any decade. Any decade.

[01:33:48] And it still resonates. You know, I don't think this generation gets that. I don't think this generation would understand it. But if you told them the background of everything, when this was made. Even a movie that took inspiration from it. Um, did you ever see the show that was based on a comic that was, that was by the X-Files crew called, uh, Harsh Realm? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:34:15] It didn't quite cut the mustard, but it was absolutely a love letter to that kind of show. I didn't like the remake of The Prisoner. Yeah. We, we joked about that as well. How it was just like, hmm. I think McGowan basically was saying, no, this is not what I want. We were joking. Good casting on Ian McKellen and everything else. Yeah. You know, people who've never seen it don't have any interest. So, you know, that's how bad it is. Who was in that?

[01:34:45] Jim Caviezel? Jim Caviezel. Yeah. Before he went apeshit and fucked up his career. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come see Jesus. Escape the, escape the village. Prison of interest. Yeah. Yeah. I do like person of interest, but it is one of those is like, see again, just timing is like, there are some actors who it's hard to watch something they're in because you just know how, you know, bad shit they are in real life. And he's definitely one of those.

[01:35:12] I do giggle a little bit at what, what, you know, he's become now, which is, you know, I'm a prophet. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah. I'm going to do a sequel. I'm like, how can you do a sequel? Jesus dies. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. Is it going to be like in that movie with that family gang episodes? It's passion like Christ too. You know, you're as far away. You know, fire up one of these, you know?

[01:35:42] But yeah, I think the thing that I've always said about the prisoners, like it's, it's, if you, if you watch it and you get it. Okay. Fine. But my best friend Humphrey, I think watched it in college. And I was like, dude, I think I was telling him about this. I was like, dude, this, this, I watched, this is the show I watched in high school. This is addicting before that was a thing. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, Oh, it's unbelievable. He's like, I taped everything. I'm like, yeah. You never saw. I, I watched this when I was in college in high school, dude. You know, I was telling me about it.

[01:36:10] I said, you know, imagine this, you know, and then, you know, you get books from your friends when you tell them about this, you're like, yeah, right. You know, but they don't understand. They're like, dude, this, this makes you think, I mean, this was television that made you think, you know, you know, like anything else back then, you know, in the sixties, you know, there were smart shows like the twilight zone and star Trek. This was one up, up there with them. You know, it's a show that made you think, you know?

[01:36:36] And unfortunately, sci-fi seems to be confused for fantasy is like, no, no. Sci-fi is supposed to engage you, not make you dream. You know, this isn't, this isn't Lord of the Rings of the Matrix, not knocking those, but it's not, it's not like that. It's supposed, if you're doing a hard sci-fi, you are explaining a world that is mirrors a real universe, but even if it doesn't have technology in it, it has something abnormal of what you're used to instead of.

[01:37:04] If, if it doesn't have, if it doesn't have big shiny things fighting each other, we are not interested. Right. I'd like to see something where big shiny things fight each other. Right. What do you want to see? There's got to be a fight scene for no reason. You're like, what? No. Have you ever watched all the episodes? Yes. And I, I was really delighted by how they're pretty well remastered on both Prime and Tubi.

[01:37:34] Yeah. I'm like, and you ever know, they're very, very British. They're British. But I mean, even if you aren't into all British TV, I think the reason it's stands out is it's just, it, it, it has the right amount of suspense without being over convoluted while also having just earned surprises. It's never to the point where I'm like, I'm tapping out.

[01:38:04] It's just, I'm just making my head explode. You know what I'm saying? Well, the way I see it is, you know, this is before the eighties hit, you know, and, and, you know, when you're in high school in the nineties, you know, people are watching Beverly Hills 90210 and, you know. I joked how it would appeal to people who are familiar with kind of fight competition kind of movies or like the dangerous game ever played kind of like there's a bit of a hunter

[01:38:32] aspect, but there's also a bit of a just out thinking the man kind of premise to it. It's just, but it, it has a lot of tautness going for it and the production design is just gorgeous. It's deliberately absurd just to get you in that zone saying, Hey, this is a place that's far away from any kind of normal society and it's in the future. We're going to leave where exactly in the future.

[01:39:02] It is a bit ambiguous to you. And, uh, we, we did have fun looking out why the Beatles music was featured in the finale and it was like, yeah, he apparently, uh, he, he knew, uh, George Harrison's son. He put in a word for his old man and said that they need to use it. No, no, no. What the, the, all you need is love. Yeah. No, no. Danny wasn't born yet.

[01:39:27] Um, they, he knew, I think he knew the Beatles through certain channels. No, no, no. I'm repeating some trivia for you here. Like they, they got in contact with George Harrison's people. Cause like McGowan was going to do a spy movie with them. Wait, wait, hold on. This is when 19, what year? When it just around the time they were making the finale, like they were going to do a movie and okay, because no, because George Harrison's son wasn't even born yet. Okay. Well, let me repeat it for you then.

[01:39:57] Cause like, like there's actual trivia on this taken from like one of the books. All right. Uh, Donnie Harrison. Danny Harrison. Yeah. Yeah. So they were in a movie similar and the project, project fell through and McGowan was going to convince him to allow their song. All you need is love be used in the final episodes. Oh, okay. All right. So that would be, that would have been for Danny's, Danny's sake.

[01:40:22] But the reason why he, he used it in, uh, fall, uh, fallout was in a scene where everybody's shooting up each other. Yes. It's juxtaposition. He said, it's a great thing. Cause the, the, the, the jukebox is going to have like, you know, a whole bunch of records and he says, he says, you know, why don't we just put it all you need is love while everybody's shooting each other. Yeah. And it's like, that's, that's, that's the great joke. And irony. Yeah.

[01:40:49] Oh, everybody's shooting each other with machine guns and like, you know, him, Leo McCurn, Alex Kilden, and, uh, yeah, Angela Muscat are like fight, you know, trying to get their way out. And yeah. You know, the ending of that show was so confusing though. Like he's deliberately bleak, but it's also like, whoa, where's this going? Yeah. He pissed. He was basically trying to piss off people because at the end, if you watch it, he goes up to the control room.

[01:41:19] He meets number one. Number one is somebody in an eight mask. He takes the eight mask off and it's him. So what are we saying here? That is he the one who basically put himself there? I feel like there's a doppeldinger, almost a mission impossible where someone's dressed up as him. Yeah. Yeah. I would say it's, it's him looking into himself saying, okay, I'm the one who put myself here.

[01:41:44] But Goohan does ironically remind me of various giallo kind of filmmakers and even other stuck up TV writers who, when people ask them, like put them on the spot, that's when they get brilliant and just go off the rails in a good way where they're just like, I'm just going to do the most crazy thing that I don't even care if anyone doesn't like it. Like I'm just going with my gut. And that's where the brilliance is found versus someone who's just a hack and just doing stuff to piss people off. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:42:13] I think that's the thing I was saying that he was actually himself exiled there. You know, that's the way I look at it. He didn't want all the, he didn't want the hassle that came with fame and fortune. No, no, no one does. But when you sign up for that, unfortunately you get that. And so given how bad the British tabloids are compared to us Americans, I can totally understand why he would just be like, okay, if you ask me one more dumb thing, I'm going to do something that's going to make you shit boulders.

[01:42:43] Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, to see the ending of that show though, it was like, it was like, you know, all, you know, he's being, he's being praised for his individualism. Now you'll go eat number one. And number one is, you know, in an eight mask, he takes it off and it's himself as number one. And I realized that what that's saying is that, is he the one who exiled himself there? You know, he's a danger to himself and others. He's a danger to himself. That basically created this.

[01:43:11] And now, you know, there's going to be a personality, split personality between the two of you, you know? Yeah. But, you know, that's the way I look at it. But, um, when I saw it in high school, okay, I get this, but I don't get this, but maybe I'll look at it a little more. I'll understand what the fuck is going on, you know? So, and then it all starts. But you want to examine it. You want to, instead of, I don't know what I just watched and I can't tell you if it's good or not. Yeah.

[01:43:41] The kind of Easter. The thing I love about that is at the end, it always shows this picture and then there's a pair of jail walls that slam together. Like he's still trapped there, folks. Yeah. You know, he's still done. He's not getting out anytime soon. He wants to, but can he? Yeah. Can he keep up? Can he like, you know. Is he blaming himself literally for being there or what? And did he actually trap himself to see if he could do it? What's happening here? Yeah.

[01:44:11] I kind of, I don't know. You know, we'll never know about that, you know? And I'm sure he doesn't have an answer for it, but he thought that would be fucking awesome. It'll make people go, whoa. You know, and sometimes that's all you need versus this is why I don't like today's plot twist endings in movies because they're basically just to ensure that all the clickbait sites are operational. What does that last five minutes, you know, after the credits mean? I'm like, it doesn't matter. He's just going to argue about it anyway. So why do you care?

[01:44:42] In closing, let me just say this. I think the prisoner was well-written. I think it was smartly acted. I think the actual atmosphere, you actually feel like you're on the island instead of a set. And the place that he had it at was in Port Marion, which is by the, which is, I think, by the Denver,

[01:45:08] I'm sorry, the, yeah, like it's in Wales, Portmeirion. Yeah. Tom was able to locate the website that has been around since GeoCities era that basically will do an annual celebration of the show as well as take people on tours of where stuff was filmed. So it's kind of cool to see that still being a thing. And it wasn't a back lot. It was an actual place, you know, it's an actual village, you know. That's what I mean. It didn't feel too staticky.

[01:45:35] It felt like the right kind of an adventure show every week instead of. Yeah. He's going to just get out of this closed off set. Didn't we want, you know, that boulder was just here before. Yeah, but we had to face it the other way. So. Right. And then we're going to cut to the pickup shot of a stump double jumping in the ocean. Yeah. No, not none of that. It was pretty good. So, yeah, that's that's what I think about the project.

[01:46:03] I think it was a great, great idea that was ahead of its time. And while used instead of run out of steam, you know. Yeah. So, yeah, that's what you got to be. You got to think, all right, how do we how do we keep it going? You know, how do we keep this going? And, you know, that was the thing, you know, it was just so well written. And then you it's time to stop. That was the thing.

[01:46:31] Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio. Podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites. Thanks a million for listening. It's a jacked up review show. Please try,unun. ... Thank you.