Al Pacino & Robert De Niro Action-Mystery-Slasher Movies Retrospect

[00:00:00] This podcast is a production of Unfiltered Studios. If you would like to know more about joining Unfiltered Studios, please visit our website at unfpod.com for more information. This is a quote from Francis Ford Coppola.

[00:00:16] The things you do when you're young that you get fired for are the same things that years later they give you lifetime achievement.

[00:00:43] You know, none of us were fired from the Godfather, but some of us got pretty close. I got the closest, yes. And Francis just fought for us all the time. He fought for his film and his vision, which he always does. Thanks for believing in me, even more than I believed in myself.

[00:01:13] I am eternally grateful and honored to be part of your Godfather family. Thank you. Francis, thank you for not casting me in the Godfather. It was the best job I never got.

[00:01:40] And it meant I was available for The Godfather Part II. I play this guy's father. Thank you. Francis, you changed my career. You changed my life. We're all here tonight because of you. We love you. Salud. Salud.

[00:02:10] We loaded it. We edited it. Sometimes we get so deep into conversation that we have separate segments worthy of their own place in the sun. Here is a reshuffled mini episode.

[00:02:33] I remember that scene in Injustice for All when he finds out a client. He got released, killed somebody. What? Yeah. And just, yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Pacino. He breaks in on Al Pacino and his date. And I remember that he's drunk.

[00:03:02] I remember he goes, there's women here. Because it was so effective. You know, it was just, it was like a real thing, you know? Well, and I forget what else, who else is in that movie. There's like a few other people who are in that movie with him. Um, it's, it's Al Pacino. Right. Jack Warden. John Forsythe. He plays the son of a bitch. John Forsythe. Yeah. And also, Ashley had Thomas G. Waits, who got fired from the Warriors.

[00:03:30] And after the Warriors, he got Injustice for All. And they had Craig T. Nelson. Yeah. Jack Warden. Might have been Craig T. Nelson's first movie too. I was there early in. I think you're right. Yeah. But the one scene I love is when he goes business with his grandfather. Yeah. And his grandfather is Lee Strasberg. And the funny thing is, Lee Strasberg was, um, whatchamacallit in Godfather 2. Yep. Oh. Yeah. He was Hyman Roth. Yep.

[00:03:59] So it's kind of like, it's kind of like, it's kind of a great scene where he's, he's talking with his grandfather about being a lawyer and stuff like that at the, at the nursing, at the nursing home. And it's just a lovable scene because Lee Strasberg taught a lot of these guys how to be actors. Yeah. Al Pacino met him. Yeah. He went to school. There are so many actors who have even known Pacino and I feel like they have kind of loosely based their careers off of him. Sam Waterston's one.

[00:04:26] And there's a few other of those Broadway New York guys, or you're just like, yeah, they were definitely wanting to, I'm not saying just imitate or rip off, but like they definitely. It's just, they had that same kind of aura, if you will. Yeah. It's just that shoot. It just be the most intense person in the scene, you know, as part of Godfather themed mud. We're just doing some more deep cuts.

[00:04:51] Some movies that most people have not seen many that many of us have seen, just some various selections from Al Pacino and Robert De Niro's filmography. Hey, let me buy you a pack of gum. I'll show you how to chew it. You're a fucking criminal and you deserve to go where you're going. I humiliated you. Oh my God. I'm sorry. You stupid son of a bitch. You just blew it. Any closing thoughts that you guys got on and justice for all, like, again, like it really

[00:05:18] is a legit good movie, but despite being even people knowing about Norman Jewison, not, not everyone has seen that movie for some reason. I don't recall ever seeing it. I never even heard of it myself. Yeah. Well, Mike and I are big fans of it. It's really just kind of the, it's kind of one of the first big, just kind of root for the underdog. Like there was other stuff afterwards, like Silkwood, but like this was it.

[00:05:43] It's interesting just seeing again, a whistleblower case, just how corporations just have so much money and they can still lose a case, even if they got incriminating evidence. It's just kind of a good voice to that versus, you know, before it was just common on everyday television. You know, it's flawed. It's a flawed film. I had a date when I saw it in the theater, 79 or whatever it was. And she worked in the court system and right away she was saying stuff.

[00:06:12] Oh, a judge can't say stuff like that. You know, it is interesting too, but it's entertaining. You know, it's, well, no, that is a good point. Like we, we used to be hard on movies like this is like a judge can't call only one of the two guys into his office. But then you see some of these legal consultants writing some of these movies and shows. And it's like, well, I know how to break the rule or. And then now that we've seen real life.

[00:06:38] On professionalism, like there was a big heated court case where a judge had his phone going off the whole time. So it's like, it can happen. Yeah. It's just not common. Like you see where you're not like, like, so I think this just kind of speaks back to us, like, kind of like how Gil and I have X amount of boxes that need to be crossed off for like a good adaptation.

[00:07:01] Same kind of thing like you have with suspension of disbelief, like you've got like maybe five boxes you cross off before you say, OK, I'm just going to see if there's any enjoyment because I can't take this seriously. You know, it is kind of a buffering, if you will. Yeah, I pretty much am like, I'm cool with so many of these movies. I'll take it for the benefit of the doubt, unless they're asking questions.

[00:07:25] That they should have asked, you know, a five scenes ago that I've already predicted or, you know, as long as the judge doesn't do something outrageous, like throw his, you know, mallet, you know, at someone is like, yeah, no, stop. That's that's sitcom level. It's like, are you doing night court or are you doing, you know, permacent? Well, that scene with De Niro's talking to, oh, come on, who plays the judge?

[00:07:55] Oh, John Forsythe. Yes, John Forsythe. Yeah, he's talking to Pacino. Yes. In the swimming pool. And he's saying, oh, we should just. He didn't. That's the exact quote, but give him the chair just for for shoplifting or something. It's kind of spooky. You know, it was present predicting the over what's been going on in the country, you know, like sending the troops to the cities and stuff. There's a little bit of that in that scene. It does have a bit of that.

[00:08:25] Well, that's creepy to look at from today's world. Right. With eyes. But when did this come out? Oh, 79. Oh, so that's. Oh, wow. That's. Yeah. There was a chance after this year ago. Well, no, it predicts the siege, too. Oh, yeah. Siege 1983 as. Oh, you mean the Denzel movie? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Martial law. And yeah.

[00:08:52] Thomas Waits from the Warriors is in it as well. But yeah, Jack Warden. So it is kind of a. I always thought it was a Sidney LeMay movie. It's not, but it's just two of his regulars, Pacino and Jack Warden are both in it. But yeah, I forgot Barry Levinson co-produced and co-wrote it. You know, so this is years before Rain Man. Homicide. Yeah. I think it's a good movie. But like you say, it might be a little slow to today's crowd and have some suspension

[00:09:21] and disbelief. But at the same time, it has some other stuff where it's like, I thought that was just in the movies. What the fuck? What's happening? It's interesting. I got Pacino's autobiography here and he's got a shot from Injustice for All. And he doesn't really discuss the movie much in the book. And the caption under. That's so wild because it made its money back going by 70s dollars.

[00:09:50] It was reportedly made for 4 million and made 33.3 million. So. Well, the caption under his picture in here says, Injustice for All. And he said, I want off this film. So I'm not sure if he said maybe that's it. Maybe he didn't like the movie or maybe he didn't want to make it, but it was required to make a studio picture for. Probably. Well, let's see. He does a great job. No, I agree. So it's for Columbia pictures. So I guess he just had a deal lined up.

[00:10:19] The composers, Dave Grusin, who you know, for a lot of his Sydney, Sydney Pollack work. He's done similar stuff like Three Days of the Condor, Absence of Malise, Tootsie and The Firm. So. Okay. Yeah. I think it's a hip score, even though, like you say, it's a little outdated, but it's got some cool themes and everyone pretty much just always quotes. You're out of order. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that the isn't that Jack Nicholson's line also? No, you can handle the truth.

[00:10:49] It's similar. Oh, you can handle the truth. Yeah, but similar. You can handle the truth. Rob Reiner definitely did see this movie. That is for sure, though, even though it's both movies are interesting to watch because they're definitely going back to old school films like Witness for the Prosecution and To Kill a Mockingbird. But their camera angles are definitely now what you're used to seeing on a Law and Order type show. But it there is some kudos to be given for both having their own voice.

[00:11:18] Like, I definitely feel like this is what made a lot of other whistleblower dramas popular. Like I know. Oh, he likes this one. I'm a huge fan of it. The the one John Travolta movie with Robert Duvall. Oh, civil action. Yeah, civil action. Yeah, I think definitely similar stuff like that where we're going to talk like gentlemen.

[00:11:44] But, you know, I'm I'm basically helping out all the environmentalists and you're helping out all these corporations who just want to give hush money. And there's a little Mr. Smith goes to Washington and then Justice for All, too. I got some of that, too. Just how he's going up the steps. Just similar establishing shots for sure. Yeah. Well, it's taken on the corruption, too. You know, taking on the corruption. Just be a good man.

[00:12:12] And so that is interesting how you have brought that up from Pacino's autobiography. And it is a little puzzling because you kind of wish he would kind of give a little more backstory. Did he just did he want to hold back because he doesn't want to come off as pissy? I wish I could remember if he discussed it in the book. I think he does very much. But because I can't find anything on it. But it just sounds like, you know, it was a Mert job, but he still did his job.

[00:12:41] It's just as unfortunately, that was very common in both the 70s, 80s. Like you kind of were you've got to come up with a movie. Otherwise, we're going to, you know, your agent or studio is going to sue you for, you know, signing up and then not doing the work on all these different movies. It's just they were quick to kind of make you a star that I don't think there is bad now where now they kind of overuse you. This is like good grief. Just do two movies a year. You don't have to star in five.

[00:13:14] But yeah, unfortunately, there's a lot of actors who sometimes need to be reminded you did really good in that role, even though it might be close to your heart. I just did a chat GPT on it. It says, you know, you can't rely on this, but Al Pacino did not dislike it as a whole, but he did have creative concerns about parts of it, especially the courtroom climax. So he didn't like his big scene, evidently. Too close to the wire, I guess. Probably. It's all good.

[00:13:44] Okay, he wasn't fully happy with the way the climatic courtroom scene was written and felt it wasn't realistic enough as it stood because he tried to rewrite that scene himself before shooting. And Scarface is realistic. I got it. Yeah. Wilson later convinced him to stick with the script, which ended up being filmed as written after Pacino agreed. He didn't hate the movie. Okay. Interesting. Well, I can now. He didn't like parts of the script, basically, but that happens all the time, I would think. Yeah. The actors, you know.

[00:14:14] Cool your jets, Pacino. My best room works on the cutting room floor, that type of thing, you know. Anyway. I'll go to the next one. Have any of you, I know, Oreo loves this one. Have any of you seen Sea of Love? Oh, yeah, that is a good movie. Yeah. So that Harold Becker was kind of like James Foley. Both of them rest in peace where they were just kind of the B crowd just come up with a, you know, a thriller. Just any kind of mystery movie.

[00:14:43] And it's kind of a semi slasher without being gruesome. Michael Rooker is really, really freaky. Mm hmm. Bad guy. But definitely. I loved it when Comedy Central was doing the Roseanne roast and Ellen Barkin, who stars in that. They always roast the roasters before they present. And they were like, there was a funny reference to Sea of Love. They're like, oh, yeah, Ellen Barkin, you were in Sea of Love. The movie everyone remembers because Al Pacino's ass fills the screen.

[00:15:10] But yeah, it's not it's sexy, but it's not skin of X level. And it is intense without being gruesome. And I remember just John Goodman being really good as one of the detective buddies. Yeah. And again, Pacino's being kind of normal every day instead of over the top. Does that movie start with they have a giveaway? Yeah. Yes. They bust all these guys. But then Pacino catches this guy and his kid coming in and tells him to get lost because. Yes. Yeah.

[00:15:39] OK. And and writer Richard Price, he's gone on. He's done so many movies. He's done everything from the Wanderers to Spike Lee's clockers to episodes of blockers. Great. Yeah, that's a good movie. Episodes of the wire and Stephen King's the outsider and the night of you guys might know him also for writing the color of money. OK, I wrote the novel the same time. So, yeah, he's a novelist, much like David Simon from the New Jersey area.

[00:16:09] Nice. It's so funny. Like, I forgot that Pacino did this after a four year hiatus following his movie revolution. Oh, yeah. Which I will. Yeah, I will admit there's interesting parts to it, but it's not good. But James is just saying, oh, he's going to have his big scene where he tells off that, you know, I remember when they did a tribute to Pacino and actually, no, it was a tribute to Sam Jackson.

[00:16:38] I think. Yeah. Yeah. It was like an AFI tribute on AMC in the AFI tributes. They were cool. I missed those, but they had a funny one and they were like doing a tribute to Sam Jackson. And everybody's there just in general, like Sharon Stone. And I forget who did it, but as like they just take clips of Sam Jackson, you're like, oh, my God, you died in Goodfellas.

[00:17:01] And at one point they joke is like you're in Sea of Love just literally as like a bystander black guy on the street. That's what they called you. Yeah. Lorraine Bracco was in this and then they, for whatever reason, she was playing the ex-wife Denise, but they cut her scenes out of the theatrical, but they're restored in the TV edit. So I might need to look up if there's someone's got a bootleg of the TV edit. I still need to get the work print of spawn yet.

[00:17:31] Yeah. It's gone. Yeah, it is. No, it just came out because they did. There was somebody who covered it recently. I'm like, oh, I need to track that down so I can watch it. Yeah. If you can get past the time coding on some of those sometimes. I don't care about time code. Okay, good. I'm going to sit there and watch. I'm like, yeah, he's fine. Like, I'm not picky like other motherfuckers. Oh. From me on the bus. Um, I see what you're saying. Um.

[00:18:02] I had to watch Lady Hawk with the time code. Fuck me, there's Cam. Lady Hawk with the time code? Wow. Yeah, the girlfriend, the girl I was dating at the time, her sister or her sister-in-law worked at like the local TV station and was able to get a copy of the tape. Wow. And it had the time code on. I had to watch it with the time code. Ah, Jesus. Oh, boy. So wild. Um, there's a big dynamite cast in this.

[00:18:31] Paul Calderon, the, my man from Amsterdam for Pulp Fiction. Yeah, you've seen him in other stuff like, uh, out of side. He played that same role in Justified later on as well as, uh, Bosch. But yeah. Um, freaking, uh, Michael O'Neill. Uh, he's in there as one of the other guys. John Spencer's the lieutenant. You've seen him on LA law and West Wing. Yeah. Uh, William Hickey, Richard Jenkins.

[00:19:01] My, my brother will always say the dad from stepbrothers. I'm like, yes, but he's been around longer than that. Um, yeah, it's a, it's a dynamite cast, but I just will always remember it. It's just Michael Rookerts being a sneak and then just Pacino coming up and just blasting him with a gun. You know, it's pretty tough without being over the top, without being over the top. It's a crowd pleaser. It's intense without being average.

[00:19:30] It's, it's gritty without being trivial or just outdated or, you know, it's not, it's not trying to be anything else. It's not the billionth death wish or dirty Harry knockoff. It's just, it's a simple, sexy cop and a love interest movie. Yeah. Was it, was it like most, there was like quite a few films in the seventies that kind of ended ambiguously. It's not one of those, is it? No, no, it is not like, so I think that's his dit.

[00:19:58] Like Pacino was hesitant cause he'd already had a bad experience on cruising, but see, here's the difference. Like this movie wasn't slashed to pieces by the sensors. So, you know, it's not. And to my knowledge, the director, you know, Harold Becker and Pacino did get along together, you know? So it wasn't just like, you know, freaking and Pacino or, you know, she was always going to set late to piss him off and freaking rewriting it just cause he hates Pacino so much. It wasn't that kind of ugly affair, you know?

[00:20:27] It wasn't, it wasn't trivial, but yeah, it's, it really is a lot of fun. Uh, so the next one I got here on the list is night in the city. This is a remake of a fifties noir and this stars Jessica Lange and De Niro. And it's a very confusing movie, but it's kind of a fun just to watch kind of film. Cause he kind of plays an everyday guy instead of a, you know, he's just a fast talking lawyer.

[00:20:55] Now there's what I know I haven't seen. Yeah. And I've never even heard of it. Coincidentally, it is by the same writer, Richard Price. And it's by rock directed by Rocky producer, Erwin Winkler. Yeah. Who'd worked with him on other stuff like raging bull and later good fellas and the Irishman. But yeah. I'm trying to remember if I've seen that one. I'm looking at the thing. It's just kind of okay. Like I just thought it was okay. It wasn't striking.

[00:21:22] It was a little convoluted, but it was kind of just a decent Sunday night kind of movie. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it wasn't a big hit. It looks vaguely familiar. I think I might've seen it. It's got a boxing subplot and some other stuff, but this is kind of, it's just an interesting, just put it on and see what happens. Uh, oh shit.

[00:21:47] I said this out of order, but, um, there's another movie that dinero does, uh, with, uh, uh, Robert Duvall called true confessions. And it's basically, uh, a priest and a police detective. Uh, just who are brothers sleepers. It is. Fortunately, I love sleepers, but it is not, not related to that. But this is always one that it had mixed reviews and I just came around on it.

[00:22:17] And I was just like, it's watchable. It's not bad. Like I remember, but it's also not that great. It's just kind of whatever. Like it's kind of, yeah, he's in it. Uh, Dan had Daya James Hong, Bridges, Meredith. Yeah. Big cast, but it just kind of. Wastes potential. What year was that? 81 81. Yeah. I meant to list that earlier, but. Uh, then we go to, uh, I'm sure you guys saw city hall.

[00:22:47] No, no. Okay. I heard, but never saw. I think is John Cusack in that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a Cusack and Pacino movie. This was on cable TV 24. So yeah, I am not joking. So once again, Harold Becker's back in the chair. He gets other great support like Danny Aeo, Bridget Fonda, the, or Lando as the judge. Uh, Tony Gilroy. Yes. Uh, the guy of rogue one on door and.

[00:23:18] Uh, actually. Well, it's Al Pacino. Okay. I thought he wrote it. Hold on a sec. The fuck. Bridget Fonda, Danny Aeo. No, I'm thinking of a different one. Okay. So yeah, no, this was by Paul Schrader actually co-wrote this with Kenneth Lipper and good fellows author, Nicholas Pelleggi and Bo Goldman. Uh, but who did send up a woman with Pacino and meet Joe black.

[00:23:47] So, uh, you know him for doing, uh, he's best known as the award winning. As writer of one floor of the cuckoo's nest. Uh, so this is always a movie. I find it perfectly watchable. It does look like a bigger budget. It's at. It's trying to be like a Cindy LaMae movie. Definitely. So it does look like a Serpico. Uh, you know, uh, the verdict kind of movie. And it does also look like a typical NYPD blue law and order film.

[00:24:17] I've just always been kind of indifferent on it. Uh, critics have been mixed on it over the years. Some thought it was a stinker. Others thought it was just decent, good acting. Uh, and really all I mainly remember is just the beginning of a kid getting shot at the beginning. It's just so brutal. I'm like, Jesus, but this was on like 24 seven, like it would be on TNT or USA. And then like the following week and it would be like on Telemundo or UPN. I'm like, Jesus, everybody is playing this movie.

[00:24:48] All right. I'm just kind of indifferent to it, but it is definitely, I can see why Becker made this. He wanted to make something in the vein of network. And I'm getting a bit of a vibe of that. I just don't think it's as successful as that film. And that film involves you in all the schematics. And this one is just kind of good acting. But you know, Pacino is the mayor fearing for his life and this out of control violent crime spree.

[00:25:14] So I guess just the fear mongering is a little disturbing by today's standards, but it it's a like or hate it. Uh, then we go to, uh, oh gosh, this is the next one. Uh, the local stigmatic, which is, uh, actually, yeah, that's a little Robin Williams on that one. Uh, no, no, no, not that. But, uh, okay. Okay. Gotcha. This is a short film that Al Pacino did. Okay.

[00:25:43] Well, like it's an hour, but it's, it had him in Paul Gwiffle, who you'll know is the main guy in CSI is the chief of staff and air force one. And the, one of the other guys in LA confidential. And they basically, it's kind of blurring that line between like a David Mamet play and just a questionable, like dark comedy. Like they just have these visions of what if we beat this guy up and still some money and everything. It's just very unusual, but it's based on an actual stage play.

[00:26:12] And they're living in Britain for some reason, walking around London, discussing dog track racing. It's, it's a morbid curiosity that I would mildly recommend for the performances. Um, now a movie, I think, or you has seen a city by the sea. Yes. Love that movie. Underrated. Does not get enough love. And you'll love this Gil, a young Anson Mount is in there as one of the resting. Yep. What year? 2002.

[00:26:40] He had kind of been a credited extra on boiler room and here he's actually getting some dialogue and his adopted daughter, Drina De Niro does show up in a brief role. Uh, William Forsythe is really evil as the, uh, gangster at the beginning who gets killed and who the son gets framed for. But yeah, it was just interesting. It was like this head detective is having to do a manhunt for his own kid and do just

[00:27:06] is like, again, he didn't do anything, but he's just, he's stupid. He's on drugs. So he's just running for his life. And it's like James Franco, freaking James Franco, always getting into trouble that Franco. Um, but yeah, good, good cast. Nestor Serrano, Brian Tarantina, John Doman is the captain. Uh, you know him as the asshole, uh, head police guy on the wire. Um, uh, Patty LuPone. Uh, yeah.

[00:27:33] So it's a pretty colorful cast, but Francis McDormand. And Liza Durskoo. Yep. She was there, but yeah, Francis McDormand was a standout. Um, but let's go to Gil's favorite and there's no denying it is a good movie. Uh, that is Ronan. And I'm telling you, De Niro is still in heat mode in this. Like he is still getting tactical with the guns. He is, you know, it's both, uh, kind of like sneakers. It's both a spy movie and a heist movie.

[00:28:03] Well, they were like X spies or something. I think it was. It just gets into that intrigue just with the IRA. So it's kind of like Patriot games in a way. It's literally one of the most, uh, if you're going to know John, John Reno for anything, this is definitely going to be in his top 10 somewhere just cause it's so awesome. And it's so wild how David Mamet, you know, he is before he years before he was a fascist, you know, he, I'm not taking away that he's a good writer.

[00:28:33] I'm just saying it's interesting how like many, much like Robert Towne, if he doesn't start the script, he doesn't want to be credited by his name. He wants only a script that he wrote, you know, every page of, but honest to God, like had he not done that movie, I don't think he would have done movies or TV shows like the unit. Like those are literally the same kind of deal. Just walk and talk, run and hide, you know, just get in, get out.

[00:29:02] And if Tom were here, he would instantly joke. Sean Bean survives the movie. Don't they do a parody of the kick him out. Right. Right. I know that it's just so funny though. Just it became a cliche years later. But yeah, it's like I'd already seen him in other stuff. Lord of the Rings, Troy, and he's really funny as the smartass. And I'm like, I don't think he's going to make it to the end of the movie.

[00:29:30] He's just too full of himself. And then he survives. He shoots some about a few guys and he's like, I'm fucking out of here. This is a mess. And yeah, I'm with you guys. I think this is the last good Frankenheimer movie. And it was literally his last, wasn't it? He did a HBO film about Eisenhower. And then he did, you know, he did Ranger games, which John loves.

[00:29:55] And I can't stand a minute of, but this was definitely it was either this or Solaris was the, you know, I take it back. I think Natasha McElhone. This was her year. Like, this is the same year she does Truman Show. I think it's that the is that the girl who's in Boardwalk Empire? No, you're thinking of I know who you're thinking of. Hold on. She was in. She was in Ronan. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're thinking of she's similar.

[00:30:22] She's another Irish gal. This gal is it. I know who you're talking about. You're thinking of Kelly McDonald from the Pixar movie Brave and. Oh, what's the other one? I cannot speak today. No country for old men. Yeah, you're thinking of Kelly McDonald, who's the Scottish gal who's on Boardwalk Empire. I could have swore it was the same. The one that winds up moving in with with Michael Shannon's detective. Yeah. OK. Yeah.

[00:30:52] But yeah, no, trust me. I didn't think they were the same person, but I could have easily I would have easily mistaken them because they are they do kind of have a similar voice. It's her. You know, she's Scottish. She's more thick, but she does kind of have similar hair and eyes. But yeah, no, this was definitely the first thing I saw Natasha McGill home in before she was on.

[00:31:16] Solaris, Designed Survivor and the Halo show and just I just always thought she was a giving performer, just senior as the turncoat in Ronan and then singer as the likable gal who believes in Jim Carrey in the Truman show. I was like, yeah, I think this guy was going to go some places and she has. But I just. There are a sequence and meet the parents where they parody the car chase scene in Ronan. Did they? I don't know if they did that, but they probably there's definitely.

[00:31:44] I think there's a car chase scene with with Ben Stiller and Robert De Niro. And I think I read that it was a takeoff on the car. Oh, yeah. It's like it's like very brief, but I know what you mean. Yeah, it's it's kind of right. Yeah, because when you when you bring up the parents, you know, it's like a year after analyze this. So De Niro's in, you know, let me parody my good fellows. Scoraging bull persona.

[00:32:08] But yeah, it is so funny, too, because in between his, you know, I got my eye on you. He did make him some other unexpected. Sex jokes, it is so funny how he's kind of pursuing him in a car is like, hey. But I know when I asked some other Irish and British guys, they're tired of seeing IRA terrorists in movies, but I don't know what is.

[00:32:37] I just always kind of liked movies like that. It's a devil's own patriot games. Yeah. Yeah. The boxer with Daniel Day-Lewis. It just was an interesting time of the troubles. I think they just didn't like being reminded of how much it sucked. You know, considering that the film was in France, I have to watch it again because I haven't watched it in a few years. But I'm glad you brought it up before we were doing the episode is like, yeah, because it's a good villainous role by both. Well, you know, Robert De Niro's character.

[00:33:06] He's a very, he's very calculating. He thinks all the time. Yeah. He set up. He set up Sean Bean to find out he was a fraud with a coffee cup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's just it. Like much like on heat, he's doing the homework. He's questioning his employer while also, you know, coming up with the unwritten rules. You will not do this. You will not slack on that. You know, we got to be in. We got to be out it.

[00:33:33] You're able to forgive, you know, that he's doing, you know, a colorful, you know, not likable thing. but he kind of back when he's in his prime, he is doing as basically what Mel Gibson and George Clooney become known for is like, you're going to like me. I'm, I'm irresistible, but yeah, Mamet's dialogue. You can tell it's totally his, like it just, the script was a mess and Frankenheimer, you know, he was a gun for hire at this point.

[00:34:01] He'd done, he's by this point, he's won Emmys. He's done some great TNT and HBO stuff like Andersonville, the burning season with Raul Julio, which is great. If you haven't seen it against the wall, which you've seen about Attica that has Sam Jackson, Colin McLaughlin, you know? And so at this point, you know, the car chases are similar to French connection. They've said that before. So yeah, they really lauded the car chase. I'm not surprised considering this is the same guy who gave us seconds,

[00:34:31] the train black Sunday and French connection too. So, you know, I, I, I have nothing but praise for Frankenheimer and this is probably the one people in the nineties saw the most. And it just shows you it's like, uh, cool cats like that. You know, they, they don't, they don't turn over. They got, they got a bunch of surprises. We'll return after these messages. All right, folks, how's back here?

[00:34:59] We got a 90 minute weekly shack stop. It's growing all over the world. Find it at 2 p.m. And 10 p.m. Eastern time on Mondays. Then 3 p.m. On Wednesdays. Then 7 p.m. On Thursdays. You can catch it on many more radio stations. 99.9 KERV. 1 p.m. Central time. 2 p.m. Eastern on Mondays. Then catch the Encore on Thursdays at 5 p.m. Central time. 6 p.m. Eastern.

[00:35:28] Then catch it Wednesday mornings at 11 a.m. Eastern time. 10 a.m. Central on 1077 K Twins. Then hang out with us Wednesday afternoons. MXTR and House Shack Radio. 3 p.m. Eastern time. Then Thursday. Get up bright and early with us on 95.7 Web Radio. Radio at 6 a.m. Pacific time. 9 a.m. Eastern. Of course, we've got the Friday covered as well. 12 p.m.

[00:35:57] Eastern time on MXTR FM. And 10 p.m. Eastern time. 9 p.m. Central. 1077 K Twins. Find everything on HouseShack.com. HouseShack. Do you ever find yourself thinking about who would win in a fight between Goku and Superman? Hi, I'm James Gavsey and on the Who Would Win Show, me and my co-host Ray ignore anything important happening in the outside world and debate fictional battles between characters

[00:36:25] from comics, movies, and video games. We got a new show every week and almost always am I the winner. Yeah, not true, Ray. In the past, we've discussed such matches as Captain America vs. Darth Vader, Solid Snake vs. the Iron Giant, classic matchups like Robocop vs. Terminator, and even the Muppets vs. Sesame Street. That one was crazy. So if you're a fan of geek culture and love a spirited debate, check out the Who Would Win Show wherever you get your podcasts or check us out at WhoWouldWinShow.com.

[00:36:58] Yeah, I remember watching this with my uncle. He was all into car porn and like without fail, anytime you see a Euro spy movie without fail, I would almost always see critics say, you know, this is a movie in the style of Ronin or Bourne Identity or it's a poor man's Ronin Bourne Identity. You know, in the past, I've sometimes become disconnected with some movies because they take place in foreign countries and stuff like that, because I never really saw the territory before.

[00:37:27] That and how you portray it is definitely a lot. If you you got to make it engrossing. If we had your buddy Serpento on, he would probably talk about how to do establishing shots, how to draw the audience in without losing their attention. You know, that that that is a good point, though, that there are some movies which would kind of copycat James Bond or Indiana Jones. And you'd be like, where is this again? What time period? What?

[00:37:55] It all looks the same that it did 50 years ago. I guess that's my stupid American mind. You know, it's just now since I've been to France and Paris, installed the Eiffel Tower and all that. I see that Eiffel Tower in every single thing I watch anymore. It just pops up in everything. Everything. And you kind of it's kind of a requirement. But at the same time, yeah, it is one of those. It's like it I can see why I can sometimes take one out of the movie, because it's like

[00:38:23] that's not how it was when I last saw it. Or is it stock footage they've digitally inserted? You know, it is kind of a monument that it's kind of been done to death, just kind of like you've seen the White House blow up on film. You kind of don't want to see the Eiffel Tower get blown up for the big time either. It's just like it's been done. Let's see New York burn again. Oh, it's burning again. Oh, this is fun. Again? Yeah. But yeah.

[00:38:50] But but yeah, the name, as some people won't know, is like, yeah, Ronan, that's the Japanese word for mercenary, you know, and I I do like how they do treat them basically. Or is it more like a lone warrior kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and they got their code is like that is like they're we get it all out of the way. We get what a lesser filmmaker would have made this be so messy and is like. No, we're getting in. We're getting out.

[00:39:20] We got our cut, but we also are going to help each other. We need each other. It's like we don't have to get over emotional about this. And much like he it does show, you know, casualties in the street without being gratuitous. It does show all the different shootouts without feeling like it's just trying to imitate, you know, John Woo or some other. Well, it played it very matter of fact and straightforward. Like people are bleeding because you would actually bleed, not because I want to attract more

[00:39:49] gore heads. You know what I mean? Like it's not it. And don't get me wrong. It's it is good action, but it's not overblown, overdone. You know, it's not chunky. It's not. And Jonathan Price, he's really awesome as the villain here. You know, he just done the second Pierce Brosnan Bond film and Stone Skarsgård is good here. He's just so diabolical with those glasses on as he gets his silence pistol out. He makes a good villain. Yeah.

[00:40:18] This is years before Chernobyl, Dune and, you know, even Mamma Mia. I went there. Yeah. But yeah, this was a year after Good Will Hunting. And yeah, he still kind of was the go to for some of those foreign films like Red October, Dancer in the Dark. So it's interesting to see him go out of his comfort zone in between doing Swedish and American productions.

[00:40:43] Yeah, no, literally everyone I have heard talk about it, like I think even Trace, but you brought it up one time like they just I will see even comedians like Pat and Oswald will just bring it up in a stand up. It's like it's just kind of a well, it's just a very easygoing crowd placing movie. Your dad likes it, but you might be able to get your boyfriend or girlfriend or, you know, neighbors to all watch it. It's really easygoing. It'll even make you just glad that, hey, this is a time when De Niro did care about the movie.

[00:41:14] But well, you know, you brought up it's very matter of fact. It's not over the top with a lot of what's going on. It's like it shot him, but the music isn't overkill. You know, it's not shitty. It's not it's not a it's not a soap opera. I've got to check it out. I've never seen it. Well, and then, you know, like there's a scene where he's at a hotel and he's trying to he's trying to figure out, you know, what the reaction time is for like bodyguards and stuff like that. Yeah.

[00:41:43] So he sets up a scenario where something happens. It sounds like a gunshot. And that's what was so cool, because then when they meet their friend and colleague who creates miniatures, Michael Lonsdale, that kind of just goes back to all those other stabs and scenes when he's having to be tactical and say, OK, on estimate, there's going to be five bodyguards. They're going to be at your six o'clock. Yeah.

[00:42:09] And I also remember like they're looking at a map and he's like telling everybody the map is not the territory. Yeah. It's a map. But anything happens. So be ready for it. It does the show and tell, which is already screenwriting one on one. But it's not doing it just for style points. It's not doing it because they just were making shit up. Like, it's like, no, that was their vision. And I think it helps that Frankenheimer, you know, it wasn't just that he did movies he

[00:42:38] wanted to do, like The Manchurian Candidate, as well as, you know, other, you know, mercenary jobs. But he also had a documentary background. So that's why I think he's so good at getting all his different units to give me as much B-roll of this particular city that I can mix him with this while these guys are narrating or talking about this. Yeah, great electric stunts, very dangerous driving, you know, like much like-

[00:43:04] Well, you know, and I've been walking around Paris and I was like, there's a lot of streets that are just very narrow. And I'm like, I'm seeing their driving and thinking to myself, did I walk down that street? I would imagine. I'm sure even my cousin Anna and some of their other family members have definitely been to some of those streets. Yeah, I mean, it's also cool how they mentioned that Skarsgård's character, you know, he was

[00:43:32] a computer specialist from Germany and he's often associated with other. He's been around since the Cold War and the KGB and you're like, whoa, oh shit. This dude, he's and I like how he says very little, but he he's just so frustrated when his glasses get broken. He's just like, you know, he's definitely like a he's definitely like a John Wick character where he's like enough.

[00:43:59] And well, then they play out the scenes like he he steals the briefcase and then he replaces it with a fake while they're during a shootout while they're not noticing that he's doing that. Totally. But and Frankenheimer did work with John Reno. He was like, make sure like let's make sure that, you know, Vincent and Sam, you know, John and Robert's characters have some chemistry. You know, we got to have we'll make this a buddy movie without being a typical buddy movie. Like they're just friends. That's it.

[00:44:30] I'm trying to think like Ronan was 98. 98. So yeah. And when was Leon the professional? That was four years prior. So yeah, he's already a smash hit. But it's not it doesn't make enough money in the US. It makes all it makes it up, you know, internationally. And then people come around on it because so much was cut out in the US release. So they're like, OK, we saw the movie the way France saw it. It's a pretty good. We like this actor. He done Lafayette Nikita at the start of the era.

[00:44:59] So yeah, he he he's staying busy. It's the same year that he does Godzilla. I'll leave it there. But he got one good movie in that year. So but yeah, no, it it I'm not a car chase guy, but I like it when it's something like this. It serves the story. You know, you're not just getting bored because it's a expensive BMW ad. You know, it's it's fucking awesome.

[00:45:26] Like and well, the one thing about that movie, like I like I've said, it's not playing it over the top. Yeah, it's very concrete. And they saved the rocket launcher for last. Literally like this. And the characters are passing over each other. Some of them are panicking while others are cool and calculated because, you know, they've done mercenary type jobs like this before. And this is just another Tuesday.

[00:45:52] And they give you a concrete idea of like how many hours they got to get this done. And and like you said, I'm glad you brought up how they're calculating all the henchmen is like it's not just we're going to go here. We're going to go there. It's like, no, they're they're going all kinds of places. They're just they're jumping two and two. And and at the end of the day, they're going to get their money and they're going to say their goodbyes and maybe get out of this dangerous business.

[00:46:20] Because, you know, it's it is it could easily be a comic book if you wanted it to be. And it was just 98 was a good year. I'm not going to lie, but it was just cool to kind of have just calculated stuff like this in between all the Michael Bay and, you know, Roland Emmerich stuff or controversial movies is like you have stuff like this, The Negotiator and Mercury Rising, just all kinds of just fun, fun blockbuster movies.

[00:46:47] You know, it's just we didn't mention the siege earlier. So it's like for all the dumb stuff and the popular stuff and the infamous stuff you just had just this is literally if you took all the guns away, this could easily be an art house movie. It really could be just because every shot matters. The editing and camera work is also good. And the actors say a lot without saying very well, saying very little. That's another plus.

[00:47:14] Like, it's it's not just I'm seeing it just because I like De Niro and all these other guys is like, I'm seeing this just because I hear this is a good movie. Oh, it is a good movie. De Niro does a lot with eye work. He does a lot of eye work. And it's so funny seeing the opening scene. He's like, yeah, something stinks about this plan. I'm going to go along with it. But I'm going to have to cover every area of this, you know, and it gives you an idea

[00:47:41] just like, let's say we took out the spy or heist elements like they're still just like, hey, for this dangerous, you know, underground business we're doing. It'd help if I could scope this out, you know, earlier in the daytime. No, I can't even do that because it's so heavily guarded. Most of these places are. Yeah. Good car chases, much like Terminator and Speed. They just serve the movie.

[00:48:10] And it was interesting, though, how I meant to say how collateral with Michael Mann's movie and was inspired by classic noir like Murder by Contract. And Heat was inspired by all kinds of different cinema. And this one is kind of like Heat, where it's definitely all kinds of cinema. It's a James Bond film with more class, but it's also just it's just kind of a typical

[00:48:40] international thriller with some Euro spy stuff. Yeah, it's a heist movie. It's a heist movie first, for sure. It's just. Oh, and I. Oh, dear. I meant to bring up the fan. Oh, I love that. And the Mr. Science Theater episode where was like there's a fan playing here like Snipes De Niro and Crow booze Mike for that reference.

[00:49:10] God, John loves this movie. I hate this movie. I love Tony Scott. Don't get me wrong. And I think the tone is just way off. And it sucks. And it's a shame. It's unbelievable. It's not believable. Like, I remember reading it on IMDb. People who even people who like the movie, I admit it is like, we're the security guards at the stadium. And I'm not saying that because I'm a security guard. I just yeah.

[00:49:40] It's like you got to just show the world instead of everyone takes their sweet time to come up. But it also just doesn't. Haven't they ever heard of a rain delay? Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't really know what it wants to be either. It's based on a book, but I don't know if the book's any good or not. The cast is good. I mean, once again, we got Ellen Barkin. We got John Leguizamo and Benicio Del Toro in here playing being some of the baseball players.

[00:50:07] The screenplay was by Faf Sultan and he is. Oh, Miss Winterborn. That's not a good movie. Yeah, he's he's done all kinds of novels and other stuff. He did the show Terrier. So it looks like he's had an OK career. But yeah, just the whole time. Like, I didn't know what it was trying to be. Is it trying to be the billionth, you know, unlawful entry, Science of the Lambs serial killer movie?

[00:50:35] Is it trying to be just two stars facing off? And. I love baseball movies as a rule, but there's two of them with two of my favorite actors in it. Albert Brooks in The Scout. You know, neither one works. I just. Yeah. Yeah. The Scout was always one of those. I would hear people talk about it and everyone would just stop when everyone said, is it any good? You're like, Brendan. Brendan Fraser was good. Yeah.

[00:51:03] Albert Brooks was having fun, but I don't know if he wanted to be there. Yeah. It's again, it was a tone problem there. Hans Zimmer's score is kind of flat, which is a shame because he kind of wanted to be creepy. And again, I like Tony Scott, but like when you give him too much freedom, unfortunately, he kind of just. I feel like he has to make this in order to make good movies like Crimson Tide and Enemy of the State. Like it's just he's just kind of circling around instead of.

[00:51:31] Let is letting us be part of the world at Oreo. Did you ever encounter this on TV and just be like, what the hell is this? Which movie? The the fan. I don't think I think I watched it once. That's about it. I don't think I was ever drawn to it myself. Jack Black plays a radio technician. James, it's a good cast. MC Danny freaking the boss and Stargate SG ones there. Kirk Fuller is one of the coworkers. Yeah.

[00:52:01] Chris Mulkey was the stepdad. Yeah. I just seem like I just always draw a blank. I'm like, I guess the script must have been OK, but it just. The soundtrack looks fun when I look at who's on the soundtrack. I'm just like, yeah, De Niro just had a very shallow psycho role. It just can't fear it wasn't. But and Snipes like really. It's just nothing to do in his role at all. Like and just like, hmm, interesting.

[00:52:29] I just because he has charm and he just didn't. Yeah, he's just a troubled baseball fan and he was working on a contract and I've seen other people criticize the business deal as not being believable. So it's like, yeah, you know, something's bad. Just given the smallest stuff that you could easily just.

[00:52:56] Forgive, it just is drawing unnecessary attention to and you're like, Jesus, OK, whatever. He was in need of a consultant or two, I guess. So a similar movie to that. Again, Cohort John loves this. I know other people who love this a lot and I don't think it's a bad movie. I'm just kind of mixed on it. Fifteen Minutes. Oh, did I see that? This is on like USA Network, like 24 seven, like wasn't that Edward Norton?

[00:53:26] Ed Burns. So similar. Oh, I'm thinking of the score. Yeah. Now, the score is interesting. John loves that one, too. I'm kind of mixed on it. But hey, yeah, same year. And this is interesting because it has a detective and a fire marshal. So it's kind of a buddy movie, kind of a slasher movie minus the horror elements. Our our buddy Cisco is one of the detectives. That's right. Avery Brooks. Nice. Other bank heist movie. OK, kind of. Yeah.

[00:53:56] Melina. What's her face from before she's on CSI New York? Carol Roden before he's in the Bourne supremacy and all of talk to Rob, who you've seen in a bunch of movies. And yeah, I it's just one of those like some people think it's a good movie, but a little over the top and others just have trouble bouncing out. I definitely see the diehard with a vengeance and seven comparisons. Yeah, I don't know, man.

[00:54:23] I just I feel like when they kill off one of the main characters, it just kind of loses momentum. And it's definitely would be interesting to do a double feature of it with network. I definitely understand that. It's definitely. But yeah, De Niro is definitely still in heat Ronan mode in this movie. So it's interesting, you know, just after he's made fun of himself with, you know, meet the parents and analyze this and he's just back here again. But I thought the chemistry was good.

[00:54:53] It was cool seeing Edward Burns be serious outside of his, you know, comedies and saving private Ryan, you know. But yeah, I'm just mixed on it just because I just feel like it kind of loses steam. But I do like the sad tire where it makes fun of like Kelsey Grammer plays a hack journalist who's like, oh, my God, come over here. Someone's dying. Yeah, but I feel like he's playing it way too much over the top. But at the same time, I get it. It is. It does have a sad tire moment to it.

[00:55:22] So, yeah, I don't know. I'm just mixed on it. I don't think it's a bus. I do think you should watch it at least once. A young Charlie Theron plays one of the ticket agents at the beginning. It was one of her first movies. Yeah, it's interesting, but it's just so interesting how everyone is mixed on it. Roger Ebert really loved it, though. While criticizing, it didn't have the polish of natural born killers or the widow wagged the dog. So make of that what you will.

[00:55:53] So Stephen Hunter, the Washington Post really hated it. So there you go. Worth a watch, but it's going to vary. Now, hide and seek. This is easily the worst movie we got on this list. I saw this when this came to FX. It was the billionth killer kid movie. Oh, so like Dakota Fanning, you know, is the same year she's in War of the Worlds for Spielberg.

[00:56:21] She's already been in stuff like I am Sam and what have you made on fire. And it's like I said, I kid you not. I had a teacher's aide who was obsessed with her. She's like, oh, Dakota Fanning, one of our best kid actors. I'm like, no argument there. She's a good actress. And I see this. I'm like, what the fuck is this? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like total waste of Famke Jansen. She's like the mother who dies at the beginning.

[00:56:51] And God, Elizabeth Shue is in here as the nosy neighbor. Or they have Dylan Baker being the creep next door, you know, is going to get murdered. But then lo and behold, I'll just have you any of you seen it or should I just spoil it? I don't really want to, but it's kind of impossible. You don't care. So it's trying so hard to be like the sixth sense that that kind of derivative movie. And then it's like, oh, lo and behold. Yeah.

[00:57:20] Dakota Fanning just has PTSD. She she's not killing people. She's just unintentionally drawing all the prey in. And then De Niro is killing everybody. Oh, you never predicted that. I'm like, but the problem is it's just so dull. So it literally looks like a Lifetime movie that just went to theaters. And don't get me wrong. It can't. Lifetime has done some good stuff. But yeah, it's just I just applaud the director and writers.

[00:57:49] They've since had a good career. But I'm just like, this was just kind of when everybody was just doing schlocky movies like it's horror only in that there's a serial killer and it's mystery in that it's going to have an unbelievable third. Third half, you know, plot twist, you know. I was going to say, I had I didn't think I'd seen the movie, but it's sounding familiar. I'm sure you saw it. Yeah.

[00:58:15] It's definitely a fast food burger you ate and then quickly pooped out. It was. Yeah, it's it's it's not one that can be what you'd call memorable, I would say. And that's the worst thing. You forget about it. I mean, get to your car. You know, I think only with the ads that I know about it and I'm like, that looks cheesy. And then. Yeah, it's just, man, it's just the trailer was a letdown. The movie was a letdown.

[00:58:43] And then, oh, well, lo and behold, we got three different plot twists. And one of my favorite cheesy movie podcasts covered this. And even they are just pulling their heads out saying, who is this for? Or like, again, it's not memorable, but it's also like if you took the cast and production quality away, it would be a generic like Roger Corman made for Showtime crap fest that at 2 a.m. It's like, OK.

[00:59:12] So I'll get to the end of the tunnel. So then we got a similar movie. Pacino gets on the movies that are the race against time. He does 88 minutes. And I'll never forget, like it is watchable, but it is not good. It's definitely trying to be like DOA. Meets die hard and a little bit of seven. Like so there's a prisoner on death row played by Neil McDonald about to be executed. Heat reunion with Amy Brenneman.

[00:59:43] And I'll never forget how it was like released overseas first. Then Sony and Millennium Films picked it up and people were joking. It's like it's 88 minutes, but it's actually 110 minutes. Already false advertising. Like the never ending story part two. Yeah, right. And was that covered in the first? Well, an actual actual 88. The ending story. Rambo first blood part two. Yeah.

[01:00:12] Second blood. Oh, yeah. Any film that runs less than an hour and a half is usually considered not a good movie. Most of the time. Yeah, because it's. I can understand if it's Roger Corman. He made everything 70 minutes. But yeah, when it's just like a mainstream movie, you're like, yeah, something got cut to bits. If they want to get you in and out of the theater that quickly, they're doing. They did too much damage control.

[01:00:39] And I think the biggest eyesore was it's by justified and fried green tomatoes director, John Abnett. And you're like, what the fuck is he working on this for? He's he's known for character studies, not for convoluted thrillers. I mean, he did Red Corner with Richard Jeer and produced the Mighty Ducks movies. But come on, you know, he does serious stuff and is by the creator of the Fast and Furious franchise in Las Vegas TV show, Gary Scott Thompson.

[01:01:06] So, yeah, just a very junkie script, a forensic psychiatrist. And you don't believe any of the female gals who end up being the main killer. And it all ends with like having the killer die on their own death trap or some stupid shit and some other explosions and a motorcyclist gunman. But, yeah, I'm already drawing a blank and I've seen it twice, not because I wanted to, just because nothing else was on. And I was just like, oh, it's still not good.

[01:01:36] Yeah, I should have read a James Patterson book. I would have gotten the same thing, only better. And so then, yeah, a waste of William Forsythe. I love the guy, but he's popping up in a lot of these movies again. So then we go to Righteous Kill. Yes. And I am so mixed on this one because it's part buddy movie, part slasher. Like it's kind of like Dexter meets usual suspects, if you will. Like it's just who killed who.

[01:02:04] And oh, lo and behold, your heroes, one of them happens to be a troubled, troubling police officer. You know, De Niro used to do some bad things. And oh, lo and behold, Pacino's the bad guy. Oh, yeah. And that had the kids in it. That was a. John Leguizamo shows up again. Donnie Wahlberg plays one of the other. Donnie Wahlberg. And 50 Cent is the main suspect who gets killed. And we're like, oh, we thought he was the serial killer that he couldn't find anything on.

[01:02:34] And I think the hype killed it. I think it was poorly advertised. The cast is pretty inspired. Young Sterling K. Brown's in this. Melissa Leo's a brief role. Brian Dennehy is like the main guy who we think might be crooked. Yeah. Before you can say presumed innocent, you're like, oh, it's Brian Dennehy. Yeah. Carla Gugino's in there. And for some reason, despite not being in the same age range, she has the hots for De Niro. And you're like, why do people keep putting him with younger gals half his age? Come on.

[01:03:05] I think one of the last movie signs with the Mads tore that one apart. I'm not. Carla Gugino's in the 50s. It was Trace, Frank, and the woman that kind of kept them in line. Oh, Carolina Hidalgo. Carolina Hidalgo. Yeah, I like her. I got her one time. Yeah. So I called them when she was on the air with the Fugel saying and she laughed at something I said. So jealous.

[01:03:33] I'm proud of myself for that. Anyway. 2000s were a blur, man. They were trying to redo kind of the late 80s, early 90s. They're like, let's do an all star cast movie. Anybody could be the bad guy. But the advertising was kind of convoluted. And I remember my uncle kept taking me and my sister to the movies and he was so tired of the trailer. He's like, Cam. Yeah. He kind of didn't want us watching R-rated movies unless he was watching them.

[01:04:03] He was that kind of overprotective. I'm like, we're going to see it when it comes to TNT anyway. Two years later. Come on. Relax. Relax. I'm not going to go crazy and become a gunman. Good God. You know? Yeah. But yeah, it wastes a big opportunity, but I kind of like it in a schlocky CSI way, I guess. But it's not great. But it's also not as bad as you think it might be.

[01:04:27] But it's still the problem is I used to see it was the guy who wrote Inside Man and he said like on a thread somewhere that like director John Abnett had like a mistress or who like casting couch. It's since been deleted and I can't find that comment anywhere. But Reddit, Fred seemed to recall a similar interaction and he just claimed his script got chewed to pieces. And I'm like, Jesus.

[01:04:53] So you went from writing a great Spike Lee heist movie to writing a convoluted crooked cop mystery movie. And I think, yeah, when I think about it hard, it really is problematic that Robert De Niro is the hero, even though he's the bad cop. You're like, you know, Street Kings came out the same year and that was better because Keanu Reeves is dirty cop, at least, redeems himself. You know, I was like, I'm going to find out who the bad apples are in my department, you know.

[01:05:21] And it's like not everything has to be cookie cutter, but to the movie's credit, it is kind of interesting. The more you can talk about it. So it's not a one trick pony. But I think it was also so intent on just having all the gratuitous, you know, sex and violence at the same time that it kind of it kind of got definitely too many cooks. And at the same time, Pacino and De Niro do have some fun moments together.

[01:05:49] So it literally when you looked at the interviews back when everyone was watching people promote movies before they came out on the Internet, it's like literally every single interview is like how cool seeing Pacino and De Niro talk together. So it's just kind of was banked all on them being in a movie together. Yeah. Would you say it was a forgettable movie? Yeah. Because I kind of feel like it was. It's just like De Niro and John Travolta's deal. That was interesting. Oh, that was bad.

[01:06:20] I liked it at first, but then it was just like, yeah. Good concept. Good concept. Yeah. It's not a rewatch movie. Yeah, they're too old for that role. I think it had come out back then, it would have worked. But not now. Maybe. I think it still needed one more rewrite because there were some other holes in the plot. Like it's trying to be like Dexter meets, I don't know, presumed innocent for lack of a better word. It's an interesting mess, even though it is a mess.

[01:06:47] So then the last one on here I got and it's probably the second worst, in my opinion. This would be Hangman from 2017. How did this get made? Even covered it recently. I'm just like, ugh. A waste of Carl Urban and Sarah Sahi and just a very, very, very dull, like, again, serial killer movie. Like, it's not a horror movie and it's not an interesting mystery. It's by stuntman turned actor Johnny Martin.

[01:07:16] And let me just say, I think he needs to go back to his original day job. Because he's been doing all these just very low budget stuff for Saban and Lionsgate and Hulu that star of the likes of Pacino and Nick Cage. And you're just like, why? And it has zero suspense. And again, Pacino, he has just seen so many better days. He's been a lot of fun in some of these recent comedies he's done.

[01:07:44] But whenever he's back in insomnia and heat mode, it just seems like he's just bored, just looking for stuff to do between twiddling his thumbs and doing the billionth hoo-ha. Yeah, I can't tell you anything about it. I saw it and don't remember anything about it. It was so dull. At a 31 out of 100 on Metacritic. So 5% of Rotten Tomatoes. So, yeah. I would just go 10 or 20%, but, you know, they're probably right.

[01:08:15] I only go with 5% if it is literally just like U-ball level, like it looks like a student film. But, you know, it wasn't that far away from being one. It doesn't even make good use of the Georgia setting. But, yeah, guys, I just thought that would be a fun side chat. And surprisingly, we went pretty far without doing any hoo-ha's. Hoo-ha! I don't really think I can because I might start coughing. Oh, dear. I don't know.

[01:08:43] We never mentioned What's My Time in America, one of my favorites. That's a good – I love the director stuff for that. But, yeah, I was going with the later stuff. But, yeah. There's so many great things going on. You got – you know, I like the way it jumps through time and messes with you. I love the ending. The music's wonderful. It's just – yeah, it's a great film. Do you feel like he could do more epics like that nowadays? Or has he wasted – He did 1900 around that time, too. That's a good one.

[01:09:12] Which I rented, but, man, there's some explicit – Sex. Yeah, with younger – a young kid and stuff. It was a little – wow. Yeah, Bernardo Butelucci. Yeah, it's – You almost wonder if you get in trouble for renting it, you know? I think I rented from Netflix, the DVD. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff where – kind of like Blue Lagoon where you're like, Jesus, where were the – Yeah. Statutory much?

[01:09:38] I think there's a scene of a horse from the rear end taking a dump, too. Well – Speaking of horse and the Godfather. Oh! Yeah, with the bedroom scene, that's an actual horse head. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, it's a real head, and it was marked for slaughter, so they were allowed to kill it. They covered that in the Offer miniseries. Yeah. In WatchMojo site. But, yeah, it – I mean, again, I wouldn't do that nowadays,

[01:10:07] but I understand why they did it back then. Yeah. It is like you say, you're just like, hmm. I think you could have gotten a pump. Dana Gould as Dr. Z does a great bit about that scene where he goes, it took me out of the picture. I mean, these two monsters are going, okay, let's not wake him up. And they're sneaking into the house. How did they get the horse head in the bed, you know? Yeah. Just not thinking about it. That's definitely – They're kind of going through the house like, okay, be quiet. You know?

[01:10:37] Like so many stuff. Blood dripping all over the floor, you know? If you analyze where half of the stuff happened offscreen, plot holes will fill, even if it's a good movie. So it is interesting. It's like, yeah, how did he get past all those dogs and security guards at that mansion to that – Only in the movies, yeah. And wouldn't it have just been better to just kill that powerful producer instead of freak him out? I don't know. Well, they wanted to cast – what's his name in it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:11:07] For his career. But, yeah. Pacino and De Niro have done some interesting stuff. And it is interesting how when you look at just earlier movies they were considered for, even Die Hard, and you're like, oh, I can't see them in that at all. A mullet-filled Pacino or De Niro as a Hans Gruber. I can't see that at all. Yeah. Sometimes you hear about that. You've got to wonder about the authenticity of it.

[01:11:36] Oh, that's just too. It's like – and it still happens. They cast people who aren't right for the role, but they want them in the movie in some capacity. So it's like I might be open to it, but it'd be better if they're playing a computer hacker or a best friend as opposed to the main cop on the edge or the hostage taker or the hack news reporter. That's the other thing too. I hate it when just bloggers are just acting like a movie is beyond saving.

[01:12:06] It's like, no, a lot of stuff can be saved either in the editing room or if it's still not working, you could literally recast or just restructure it. How about they be – I don't know – just a fireman as opposed to a cop. You know, it's something. We forgot to mention Dick Tracy too when he's doing it. Oh, I skipped over that. Is he doing a Godfather parody there? The fact that he's still got an Oscar nom for that is also questionable. Oh, did he get it? Really? I'm like –

[01:12:35] Dick Tracy? What? Yeah. You're like – What? I thought it was entertaining, but you know. Oh, no. I can understand the entertainment for sure. It's camp. I just find it funny how he's like Oscar-worthy. I'm having a thought. I'm going to have to think about that really long and hard. I still see. I've been seeing Dick Tracy for sale for five bucks on Fandango, and I keep passing it up. Yeah. How badly do you want it?

[01:13:04] My sister wanted me to watch that movie growing up for some reason, and then when she finally watched it, she's like, Madonna sucks in this. Fun fact about that movie and the figures. Madonna's figure actually got pulled from shelves because you could see it was her when you turned it to the side so they had to pull it. And then that figure itself became a great action figure to buy. That's why it's so expensive to buy.

[01:13:34] Wow. They really were out to get her. I think we talked about that in a previous podcast. I think we did in some of the comic book ones, but yeah, it's just so funny how when you think of what was considered a big deal back then, it's like, Jesus, did we really have that many conservative Christians and televangelists and hack journalists just attacking actors' character instead of reviewing the movie? Jesus. Apparently so. Trust the art, not the artist. Exactly.

[01:14:04] I mean, even early internet critics, some of those sites are unwatchable by today's standards because they're just talking shit for literally an hour before they actually give you a movie review. Yeah. Did you just really go on a rant for five hours? Wow. I thought you were going to. I always dug other YouTube sites like Mr. Black's movie review channel. They would literally just have the trailer be playing on repeat while just getting to the goods saying. That's annoying. No, it's like. Yeah.

[01:14:33] I liked it better when they would just do screenshots. It's like, just have that be on for two minutes and switch every few minutes. It's like. But at least I respected them because they were definitely doing a Peter Travers, Roger Ebert approach and saying, hey, not to take anything away from the actor. I just thought their accent got on my nerves, but it's a good movie. Otherwise, you know, it's like talk about some of the bags. Nothing is flawless. True story. That's the other thing, too. I'll see. I'm open.

[01:15:01] Like, I know Tom went on Ebert's case. I understand how Ebert really loved The Godfather over time. But when he initially saw it, he just thought it was just good. Not great. So, I mean, everybody goes in waves before they can appreciate something. There's so many movies that when I look back at now, like maybe I would rate it a seven out of ten as opposed to an eight and a half out of ten. Maybe, you know, your scores are going to adjust depending on the day, depending what you've seen. And your whole mindset.

[01:15:32] Exactly. Sometimes the mind is a dangerous place. This was a fun one. Yes. We always are. We always are. Follow us on the web on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. The podcast is available on Podbean, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Anchor, Apple, and anywhere else podcasts are available. Feel free to review our show and leave comments on any of those sites.

[01:16:01] Thanks a million for listening. It's a Jackdown review show. It's a Jackdown.