The Amateur DECLASSIFIED - Guest: Tom Butler from The James Bond A-Z Podcast

[00:00:36] Hello and welcome to SpyHards Podcast, the best spy movie podcast? I think it's true. And I hope you do too. It's me, Agent Scott. I'm back. And you'll notice there isn't the dulcet tones of our beloved Cam Provocateur here. He is busy sweeping the floors of SpyHards HQ as he is very much a neat freak. So he can't get away. And you couldn't make it to this advanced screening of the film we're talking about this week.

[00:01:05] We're doing a declassified episode on the new Rami Malek Spy movie, The Amateur. But I have brought a guest, a professional. He's a film journalist. He's a website editor. He's the co-host of our favorite James Bond podcast, James Bond A-Z. He's been on the show before and we love him so much. It's the one and only Tom Butler.

[00:01:29] Hello, Scott. Thank you for having me back. I take offense at being called the professional. I'm very much the amateur in this situation. But you didn't have to kill my wife to get me back. You could have just invited me like a normal person. I feel like I had to make a statement. I was busy fixing my plane and yeah, that will come clear. Yeah, yeah. If this podcast ends abruptly, it's because the police are kicking down my door to arrest me for murder.

[00:01:58] So I'm sorry, folks, if that's how this all ends. And I guess like to set things up, The Amateur, which we're going to talk about in a minute, comes out today at time of release, the 11th of April, 2025, based on a book by a chap called Robert Little, but was also adapted into a spy movie the same year the book came out in 1981. So this is the second adaptation of the book.

[00:02:25] One would argue there are other things to adapt out there, but that's not for us to decide. This is a declassified episode. So we are going to talk about The Amateur, but there's going to be no spoilers up front. So don't worry, folks, if you're tuning in. The real question we're going to be answering in this is, should you be spending your hard earned money to go out and see this this weekend or in the next couple of weeks as it's running in theaters? Get to that. But there will be a spoiler talk at the end, but don't worry, that'll all be signposted. We'll give you the klaxons. You'll know it's coming. It's just an audible klaxon. I'll make it.

[00:02:54] I'll have to make something up. What's the amateur alarm, Tom? What do you think? What would the amateur alarm be? Maybe someone shouting pollen? Pollen. Yes. OK. I've forgotten about the pollen already. Oh, man. Actually, I don't think I should have forgotten that. It's quite a memorable scene. And I should thank you, actually, not only for the pollen joke there, but the reason this episode exists is because you invited me to the European premiere here in London's Leicester Square. I think we classed up the joint.

[00:03:24] We really did. Yeah. You especially. You come in your in your finest spy attire, which I was very underdressed compared to you. Although you did spot someone you were quite happy to see, which I still don't know who they are. Listen, I just want to put it out there that I don't get invited to premieres a lot. OK, I am a film journalist and premieres are, you know, most people imagine that we spend our time doing. But the honest truth is I don't get to go to many premieres because I don't get invited to them.

[00:03:54] But then also they're never as fun as maybe you think they they're going to be. But this one I was like keen to go along. It's a spy movie. It's got Rami Malek. I like him. It's got Laurence Fishburne. I like him. And it felt like a good fit for you. So when we hadn't caught up for a long time, so it felt like a good time to take you along. But yeah, we walked the I don't want to say it was a red carpet. I feel like it was a blue carpet. I think it was blue.

[00:04:17] Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, as we were walking along, we passed Rami Malek. We passed Laurence Fishburne. We passed Catriona Balfe, who's one of the female leads. But when we got to the door, I spotted Jake from The Traitors. And some of the listeners would be like, oh, my God, Jake from The Traitors. And then some will be like me like, what? Who? Who? I mean, to be fair, I mean, he's just the guy, right?

[00:04:46] He's just won a reality show. But I am a big fan of The Traitors. And I watched this year's series quite intently. I do think it's one of the best. In fact, it's the only reality show I really watch religiously. And yeah, so it was fun to see him there. And yeah, I didn't embarrass myself. I let him get on with his night. But yeah, I was very excited. You were completely nonplussed there. You kept going, which one is he? He's like, just the guy over there. Just some guy to me.

[00:05:16] But then I suppose a lot of these people, we were queuing up to take photos of people. They could have been anyone we were stood next to, to be fair. There could have been millions of people following this random person on Instagram. Could be a bunch of influencers. You don't know about these red carpet things. You could be surrounded by celebrities. Yes. Yeah. And you'll never know. But I liked, yeah, I liked seeing Jake. I sent the picture straight to my wife. I was going to say, like, you weren't texting your wife pictures of Rami Malek or Lawrence Fishburne. It was the guy from The Traitors.

[00:05:45] I wonder what he thought of the amateur. Maybe we'll have to get him on. I'll reach out. Yeah, you should do. I bet. Having been to a few of these before and spoken to some of the influencers afterwards, and they're like, it's the best film ever. I can't wait to tell my followers. And I just think, hmm. How many movies have you seen? Yeah. How much are they paying you? Bringing the movie back to The Traitors, though.

[00:06:07] I mean, there are, like, deceptions and misdirections and, yeah, like, people with ulterior motives. So I kind of feel like maybe he got something out of it, perhaps. Maybe. Maybe he's a big Bond fan. We don't even know. Maybe there's a whole interview you could do on James Bond, A to Z. If it ever comes back, we want it to come back. Please come back. With Jake from The Traitors, yeah. Yeah. There's a new co-host for you. Why not?

[00:06:36] And I think, like, bringing us back. So obviously we did the sort of blue carpet, took some photos, sat down and watched The Amateur. So this is what we're talking about. And I suppose I'll put you on the spot, Tom. What is The Amateur about? Well, that's a great question. So like you said, it is based on a book which was previously adapted. And it's about a guy who is obviously played by Rami Malek. His name's Charlie. And he works for the CIA.

[00:07:05] And he is, he works in, like, let's say the tech division. Analysts or something like that. Analysts, yeah. But he very specifically works in decryption. And, yeah, he lives in this, like, isolated, like, farmhouse with his beautiful wife, who's played by Rachel Brosnahan.

[00:07:27] And it seems like, and forgive me if you think I'm wrong here, but he's quite an awkward sort of loner kind of figure. Bookish. I thought it was bookish. Right. Like, I thought that sort of learned but not active. Yeah. He's sort of, he's an outsider type. And the sense I got from the film was that he was married to this lovely woman.

[00:07:54] And it seemed like she was probably the only person in the world who really got him. Because everyone else that he works with, they sort of see him almost as a figure of fun. Like, there's one guy, a specific guy played by John Bernthal, who is an agent in the field. And he basically mugs him off right at the start of the movie. And you think, hmm, Chekhov's John Bernthal. When's he going to come back in? Yeah, that pays off beautifully later on.

[00:08:24] Yeah. Those spoilers. So, yeah, on this first day that we see him in the office, he gets, he's chatting away on a decrypted software to some sort of mole who's in, like, the far-flung reaches of Europe, who he obviously shares intelligence with. Not from the CIA. He receives intelligence from this mole. And he gets this job loader. Is this too much spoiler? This is all stuff that's in the trailer. So, like, we get to the point of Rachel Brosnahan being killed.

[00:08:54] And that's basically where the trailer ends. The premise is then he goes to get revenge. Yes. So, that's what the trailer is telling you. I'm happy for that to be up front because people can see that online now. Yeah. And he, so basically the point is he is, he's a computer nerd, right? And his job is to sit in a quiet room and get on with his job. He's not James Bond. He's not Jason Bourne. He's very much an analyst and not an analyst even like Jack Ryan.

[00:09:20] He is a guy that very much doesn't enjoy much other than spending time with his wife and fixing his plane. Which is why I was making a joke about the plane at the start. Well, exactly. I think it's also like harkens back to Redford's character in Three Days of the Condor. Okay. Yeah. Again, like not an active person. His biggest threat to the agency in that film is the fact that he reads. Right. And he's smart. And he's able to outthink them. Yeah. And that's, I think, what they're leaning towards in this. Yeah.

[00:09:49] And the one thing we do know, because he is fixing this plane, he's basically taking his plane apart. He's obviously good. He's got like an engineering brain as well. So he is good with gadgets and tools and building things with his own hands. But yeah, very soon you find out that, you know, he's got this intelligence, which sort of puts him in a tricky position within the CIA.

[00:10:14] But then separate to that, his wife is murdered while she's away on a business trip in what looks as, I think she's come to St. Pancras Station just to hang out. As one does. As one does. And then from there, yeah, he gets pushed around a little bit because no one wants to really investigate the murder. The CIA doesn't want to help him, really. No.

[00:10:39] And I think that's basically where the trailer leaves us off with him taking it up, like, you know, taking it upon himself to solve this case. Yes. But he's a man. Go on. Yeah. He is the amateur, right? He's the man not suited for fieldwork. Yeah. And from what I understand in the original film adaptation, he was a computer guy in that. And yeah, he was also sent out into the field and he was also an awkward loner. So it kind of all ties back to this source material. Yeah.

[00:11:08] And I guess that kind of sums up the movie. And he does go into CIA training to get some field work and then, yeah, wants to track down these terrorists who've killed his wife. And, you know, you talk about this guy being perhaps a bit awkward, perhaps a bit of a loner apart from his wife. And, you know, on that level, there's things I can resonate with. I don't know what you're saying. I don't know. I don't have that many friends and I quite like my wife and being at home.

[00:11:38] So, like, as a wife guy. As a wife guy. Yeah. As a fellow wife guy. As a wife guy myself. Yeah. As wife guys. You know, it's, yeah, I can understand that appeal and I understand what they're going for with the character. I wouldn't call myself hyper intelligent or good at fixing things or putting things together. I'm better at breaking them personally. So, yeah, that's the premise. That's what's meant to draw you in.

[00:12:04] I guess the question we should first answer is, you know, we sat down, watched this film ahead of time. No spoilers, obviously, but did it work for you? Well, on a whole, it didn't really. It didn't really land with me. And I think there's a few reasons for that. But one thing I will say is I'm all for films being remade.

[00:12:32] If the source or, you know, the source is compelling enough and the first version of the film isn't that great. If the story is compelling enough, let's remake it. Like, I feel like the Bourne was a remake, right? Jason Bourne. Yeah. So originally Richard Chamberlain, who actually just passed the other day, did a version in the 1980s, which is actually a pretty good film. Is it really? Yeah.

[00:12:56] It's not what Matt Damon and Doug Liman gave us, but it's pretty good in its own right. Right. And it made me think of Manhunter as well, the Michael Mann version of the Hannibal Lecter story, which actually I think is a fantastic movie. But when it was, you know, when they went back to the source material and redid it for Silence of the Lambs, you know, it was just something completely different. I mean, the two can coexist, right? Right.

[00:13:22] My point is that I feel like from what reading around the original, the original wasn't that well received for a number of different reasons. Well, like looking at it on IMDb just now, just to fill in a bit of information, it has a 5.8 out of 10. Right. Now, I don't know how much weight you put behind IMDb ratings, but that's just above average. Yeah. So I haven't seen it. I can't comment. But there'll be some listening who have and will have opinions when they see this film, too. But yeah, it's not a beloved one.

[00:13:51] And I will always go out to bat for remaking films that didn't work the first time. As soon as they remake that than The Lion King. Yes. So, yes, that's my stance there. But go ahead. Yeah. And I will say that Rami Malek has, you know, he thinks he's really cornered the market in those outsider, awkward, slightly strange guys. Like, I don't know if you ever watched Mr. Robot, which I think everyone sort of, that's how he came to be known.

[00:14:17] But he played like a hacker, again, quite a bit of a loner, a bit of an outsider within that. So I think he fulfills that role pretty well. I think the only problem is, or not the only problem, but one of the problems is, I just don't think he's a very compelling lead actor, per se.

[00:14:39] And particularly in this, I think he fails somewhat to, you don't, I don't feel like I was ever that invested in him as the lead character. And then I think the rest, the rest of the problem is, is just how preposterous the plot is, which, you know, with spy films, you can take a certain leap of faith and, you know, commit to the story.

[00:15:06] If the story is compelling and it's told in a way that like is propulsive and the characters are interesting and the settings are interesting. But this, I don't think it had that forward momentum that you really want from a spy film. And I think Rami Malek didn't really carry it that well.

[00:15:24] And I have other, other complaints with it, but there's, there's a sort of a dual plot line going on with it where you've got Rami Malek seeking revenge against these terrorists who killed his wife. And then as that's going on, you've got the CIA who are tracking him and trying to take him down because he basically goes rogue as they always doing these things.

[00:15:48] And my personal feeling is, is that when they would take it back to the CIA and the pursuit of, of Charlie, it just lost momentum every single time. And one, you just wanted to know what was going to happen next for Charlie, not what was going on back at CIA headquarters. And I had, I had issues with that, I think. And I think that's why by the end, I just didn't, it just didn't come together. And yeah, there's examples of that being done. Well, you look at day of the jackal, the original version.

[00:16:16] You've got, you know, you've got the jackal himself out to, to get Charles de Gaulle. And you've got, um, I forget the guy who played Drax. I forgot his name all of a sudden. Michael Lonsdale. Michael Lonsdale. Thank you. Uh, trying to take him down. And there's two interweaving stories and they come together at the end and it's a catharsis and it works. But this to jump in myself, I can't get behind Rami Malek. I think that really is the failing and I'll agree there.

[00:16:43] I don't mind the cutbacks to what the CIA are doing if they did it in a way that kept the energy, but it does undercut the energy. But for me, the real failing is Rami Malek. He can't convince me that he cares about anything or anyone. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it in any of the films I've seen him in. I haven't seen him do that yet. And there's this, you're meant to give, like you said, preposterous is the word you used.

[00:17:09] This concept that this guy can go from working in office, as I do in a sense, and to becoming this assassin in the space of a few weeks. Okay, that's a bit ludicrous, but we can give ourselves over to that. If you feel that someone's willing to take that leap and cares that much about Rachel Brosnahan in this circumstance, that he would put himself through that, that physical change or that mental change as well. I just don't buy it. I just don't buy anything he's selling me in this film.

[00:17:37] There's like no emotion coming from the guy. Just not like radiate emotion. I would sooner, like I think about probably a film you haven't seen, but one that jumps out to my mind is Frank Sinatra in The Naked Runner, a 1960s film. Sidney J. Fury, who did The Ipquist File. And, you know, Frank Sinatra isn't the best actor, but in that film, he sells you that he cares about his mission and he will sacrifice himself to get it done. And it sells it.

[00:18:07] And I just don't think Rami Malek either is not directed to the right thing here or he is just not the right actor for the role. And, you know, it jumps out to me that this film is directed by James Hawes, who's actually well known for doing spy stuff, including Slow Horses. He did the first season of Slow Horses. That was one of the reasons I was so excited about this film is that Slow Horses connection. And not to say there aren't moments that like look good and things like that. That's all in there.

[00:18:36] But I don't think he's either it's either Rami Malek not able to have that range or he's not been directed in the right way to get the sort of performance that would connect to an audience. I just felt like completely cold by this thing and not in a spy kind of, you know, left out in a cold way. No, no, no, wink, wink. But more just I didn't care. I got people were getting blown up left and right. Yada, yada, yada. The machinations of a spy movie were happening. And I was just sort of a passenger watching it.

[00:19:05] I was not invested in any of the characters. I suppose it's what I'm trying to dig into here. And that's ultimately what you need. And whether that's the director, whether that's the lead actor failing that, I just wasn't brought up in it. And like it interests me that like sitting on my desk in front of me right now are the ticket that you sorted out for this premiere. And also the ticket you sorted out, I think, or a friend of the show, George Aldridge sorted out.

[00:19:32] I can't remember who it was for Avatar 2. Yes. Which is a three and a half hour film. That asks a lot. But I cared about the characters in that. So I was willing to give up my time and sit through that film. And I was invested in it. This is hour 45, I think, for the amateur, maybe two hours. And I couldn't give a monkey's about anyone in the film, apart from maybe like Lawrence Fishburne, who just pops in and out.

[00:20:02] Yeah, I think there's definitely a fundamental problem with Lawrence Fishburne's character in this. But I think that, I mean, yeah, he plays his trainer, basically, the CIA trainer. Yeah. Who then has to then pursue him when he's out in the field. And Lawrence Fishburne is obviously great in loads of things. But he's just criminally underused and underdeveloped in this film.

[00:20:28] I'd never got a sense of him having a life outside of the story. There was no development in terms of who he was, why he cared about Charlie. Because he did seem to care that he wanted Charlie to succeed. But there was never any, whether that's missing from the script or it's been cut from the film, I don't know. But yeah. Well, it's like he's asked to do morally ambiguous stuff. He works for the CIA, I think, or the military of some form. Something like that.

[00:20:57] And he's asked to do some ambiguous stuff. And it's meant to seem like it weighs heavily on him. But I don't think you get enough time to see that effect. No. And then there's some things that happen that we won't spoil until maybe later in the discussion. But overall, holistically, I'm happy to see him when he's there. But he's not there enough. And he gives it a little bit of lifeblood when he is there. Yeah. To CPR on this thing.

[00:21:24] And to be fair, in defense of some of the film's faults, I thought Rachel Brosnahan really lit up the screen every time she was on. And I felt it was a good move that they kept bringing her back through flashbacks and whatnot. Because she, again, just lit up the screen when she appeared. And yeah. But Lawrence Fishburne, yeah. I just don't think he was in it enough. Just to take it back to your point you were making about James Hawes.

[00:21:53] I will say that James Hawes made one of my favorite movies of last year, which was One Life. I don't know if you saw that. I didn't. No, go on. No, the one about Nicholas. Oh, got my spot now. Basically, it was One Life and he played a British man who helped Jewish people to escape. Oh, it's Anthony Hopkins, isn't it? Anthony Hopkins, yeah. Yeah. To escape. Our second mention of Anthony Hopkins in the podcast today.

[00:22:23] But yeah, in that movie was just fantastic. It was a really compelling true story of how Anthony Hopkins' character helped all these Jews to escape Nazi Germany and bring them to the UK. Johnny Flynn played the young version of him.

[00:22:42] But that movie just was just it was so brilliantly, beautifully put together that I do suspect that there's something, if we zoom out a little bit about this film and this project, that doesn't quite add up to me. And I just want to.

[00:22:59] If we think about Rami Malek and the timeline of Rami Malek, so Rami Malek starred as Freddie Mercury in 2018 in the Bohemian Rhapsody movie, for which he won an Oscar, Best Actor Oscar, which to me, you know, it felt like a bit of a weird move at the time. But since then, he hasn't been in a huge amount. He was a small role in Doolittle.

[00:23:26] He starred in this film with Jared Letter called The Little Things, which apparently, by all accounts, was dreadful. He was Safin in No Time to Die. And he had a very small role in Amsterdam, the David O. Russell film and a very small role in Oppenheimer. Now, the fact that this film had a premiere and it was a Western premiere just and I said the reason it's having that is because it's a 20th Century Studios release. This is a Disney film.

[00:23:53] So the same studio that made Bohemian Rhapsody, who gave Rami Malek his Oscar, it feels like perhaps there was some sort of agreement that Rami would then lead another movie with 20th Century Studios because it was a property that they already had and they were able to remake it. Maybe he wanted, you know, he felt, oh, I want to do a spy movie. I want to lead a spy movie. They had the property. It was ready to be revived.

[00:24:21] And it was kind of built around that sort of promise. I don't know the insides and the ins and outs of the deal that Rami Malek has with 20th Century Studios, but it felt like almost an obligation to him having got him his Oscar and got that movie, you know, millions and millions of dollars at the box office. Like, what do you want to do next? And this is this was him. This is what he wanted to do next. And it just just felt a bit half assed. It's interesting.

[00:24:47] I mean, just to add to this, I think there's an astute observation because I'm just looking kind of the legacy of the first film. And that was a 20th Century Fox production. And they've been trying to remake this since 2006. Right. It's been announced numerous times, including having Hugh Jackman in the lead role. And now and then in February 2023, it was announced this this iteration that we are seeing now came to fruition.

[00:25:17] And it's notable that principal photography was in June 2023. Right. OK. We're watching this now in April 2025. There's something funny there. Yeah. Yeah. I think they know that it's not it's not going to set the box office alight. The film hasn't come together, as they would hope. But like if you can just see in that meeting, Rami, congratulations. You've won your Oscar. What do you want to do next? Studio going. This is these are the projects. What do you want to do?

[00:25:46] I want to do that spy movie. I want to be the lead in this spy movie. Be a cool guy. And like. Yeah, I don't know. I literally have no insight into into whether that's that's what happened, but that's what it feels like to me. And it feels almost like an obligation deal where this movie has been made and it just hasn't come together. For sure. This is all conjecture. Either we have any insider information. We don't know any of this. This is just us talking as film nerds. Let's be positive for a moment.

[00:26:15] We might have to dig deep and huff a load of pollen to get there. I'm currently suffering from hay fever, so I think I know how that lady felt in that moment. Positivity moments that stood out to us that were like good or characters or performances. We mentioned Lawrence Fishburne. I think he has some good scenes, but without spoiling any of the big twists, is there any particular moments that stood out to you? Yeah, I mean, for me, I really liked.

[00:26:40] And I think some of them are seen in the film, but I liked the way that when Charlie got into the mission and when he tracked down the people who were responsible for his wife's murder, they actually the scenes where he is face to face with the murderers of the people who killed his wife. They really come to life. There's a sort of an injection of excitement. And what is Charlie going to do? Is he going to be able to pull the trigger?

[00:27:09] Is he going to be able to take these people down? What tricks has he got up his sleeve that don't require him to be able to shoot any further than like five meters in front of his face? And he does come up with some ingenious ways of taking these people down. We've mentioned the pollen. I don't know. Is that a spoiler to talk about the pollen? No, as long as we don't say how the pollen was used. Okay. There's a moment where, yeah, he attacks a woman with pollen who is allergic to pollen. You could put that all together.

[00:27:37] Maybe you could theorize, listeners, as to how someone tries to kill someone else with pollen. Yeah. But there is one scene which is in the trailer, which is the swimming pool scene. And I believe having watched the trailer for the original amateur, that is lifted from the original film, the original book. And it's got a 2025 update in that it's one of those swimming pools that's suspended between two buildings. And so you can see all the way down. And Charlie confronts this guy who's in the pool and he's one of the guys who's killed his wife. And that scene is quite exciting.

[00:28:06] And the way they execute that is really good. And I would say the second to last kill where he comes face to face with the guy who he sort of double crosses. I thought that was quite well done as well. I will shout out to that chap who we're not discussing too much, but that's Joseph Milson. Yes. Former SpyHards guest who we did see whilst walking around Leicester Square and didn't go and say hi to. No. It was with his, I think, friends or family or something.

[00:28:36] We didn't want to interrupt the mood. But yeah, it was nice to see a SpyHards family face up on the screen, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah, but they're all some fun stuff. I definitely agree with that. I'm trying to, I'm just searching through IMDB. It just goes to show my notes aren't completely lined up. But there's a lady who played the contact that he goes and is assisted by later on. Yeah. Katrina Balfe. Katrina Balfe. Yeah, that's right. I can't find her on the list anywhere, but I'm sure she is here somewhere. I'm just sort of scrolling past. Oh, there she is. Yep. There she is.

[00:29:05] Katrina Balfe. I thought she was, alongside Rachel Brosnan, one of the more sort of compassionate people in this film. And seemed to have a real like hard life. And you kind of felt that in the performance. She was very weary with it all. Had been in the spy game for a long time. And she was wearing the scars. And I liked the moments we spent with her. Yes. And she's not in it that long, really. But she does play an integral part to the film. But I mean, she is a great screen presence.

[00:29:34] She's just got something about her that like, yeah, she's just, yeah, just got a lot of charisma on screen. I did think that stuff was interesting for sure. There were some bits where they sort of contracted Europe into being one small country where you could go from, I can't remember this, but it's supposed to be like Lithuania to Spain within the space of like a scene.

[00:30:04] Do you not miss the days of open borders with Europe? I sure do. I mean, you can just walk to, you know, Italy from here if you want. I also enjoyed Hulk McElhenney in the film as well. He plays the CIA, one of the CIA bosses. And he is always a great screen presence. He was in Manhunter, the David Finch TV series. And I just love him from that. And, yeah, he's always good. Gruff. And there's that dinner scene where he has with the head of the CIA.

[00:30:34] And, yeah, he lays it out on the line. He's been there for a long time and knows what he's doing and basically gets away with whatever he wants. Would you? Because obviously we were talking about sort of moments, but performances snuck into them. My next question was sort of best performances. I'm not going to give it to Rami Malek. I'm probably going to give it to Rachel Brosnahan. Yeah, I think that's fair. But I think this isn't a spoiler, but let's just say her time on the screen is short in comparison to some of the other people we've mentioned.

[00:31:04] Yes. She takes up, you know, she really like drinks in the moment she's in. But it leaves you wanting at other times, I suppose. Yeah. She sells that relationship between the two of them in a way that when she's not there, Rami Malek, I don't think really is able to fulfill that side of it. We were talking before. I'm going to get to sort of the bigger question at hand in a minute.

[00:31:31] But we were talking before about the history of this film. Obviously, it seems to have been two years in the making, quite literally. Yeah. I was going to ask what compels the studio to make something that's mediocre. But I don't think that the mindset is to let's make something mediocre. It obviously just happens to have come out this way. So I suppose the bigger question here is. What went wrong? That's a really good question.

[00:32:02] I would say there's something else to say about taking it back to the 20th century studios situation. And to say that this film looks expensive. This and I think that's the problem, right? It's not that the film hasn't come together. And, you know, you can forgive you. You can take a swing and you miss sometimes. But what to me felt quite frustrating is that they'd obviously spent a lot of money on making this movie. They're in St. Pancras Station.

[00:32:31] They're on airports. You know, both you and I were talking before the film started about Black Bag, which is the Steven Soderbergh film, which I think was made on a shoestring budget, but was just compelling from start to finish and had very few locations. There was no scale to it. It was all conversations around dinner tables. But it was a compelling spy story that ticked all the right boxes and was gripping for start to finish from 90 minutes.

[00:33:00] This just sort of lumbered from place to place. And all that money was on the screen and just thinking, why is this not more interesting? Why is it just not connecting? I think that's why I'm sort of scratching my head with it. I think we could probably figure out bits and bobs. And we have spoken about perhaps reasons why. But Black Bag is an interesting conversation point because I've seen it. You've seen it. We covered it on the show a little while ago. Much lower budget.

[00:33:30] Perhaps a bigger cast. Yes, that's fair. Yeah. You know, heavy hitters definitely in that cast. But it's a much smaller film in scope, far more intimate than this film is. But it just goes to show that money doesn't mean anything in Hollywood. You can make a film for absolutely nothing. And I think like what because the question we're going to answer in a minute is, is this is worth seeing in theaters? My fear is, is that more people will go and see the amateur than they will see Black Bag. I think the inverse should have happened.

[00:33:59] I think more people should have seen Black Bag than perhaps people will see the amateur because the amateur is getting much bigger push. Yeah, I think it looks a lot more glitz and glam than Black Bag did to people. Yeah. It's what it has action in it, which Black Bag didn't have. It had one explosion in the trailer, which was the one explosion in the film. Yeah. Yeah. We interrupt this program to bring you a special report. Agents, where are you? Why do you hide?

[00:34:28] Follow that Patreon trail and make spy hearts your guide. That's right. From spy TV reviews covering the antics of George Smiley, Jack Bauer and the slow horses to reviews of non-spy movies from your favorite spy actors. There's no more secrets over on our Patreon. But Cam, tell the listeners about this week's top secret broadcast.

[00:34:50] Well, Scott, forget about your worries and your strife because we are kicking off animated April with 1967's The Jungle Book. Is Walt Disney's adaptation of Rudyard Kipling's beloved novel one of the bare necessities? We're going to find out. So deactivate Ghost Protocol and visit patreon.com slash spy hearts to truly do things angel style. But before we close Channel D, on with the spy jinx.

[00:35:20] So I guess then before we get to spoilers. This is a question. This is an interesting one because, you know, you're a journalist. And. We want to support theaters. I want people to go out and see films in theaters. So inherently, the question of should you go out and spend money to go see this in the theaters this weekend is a tough one because I want to encourage people to go out and see films. But times are hard, especially these days. And I know how much a film ticket costs.

[00:35:49] So I think it's an important question to answer. Do you think people should go out and see the amateur in theaters? I think. To be perfectly, brutally honest, I think that it's probably not going to do big numbers at the box office. No, I can't see it's it's not got an exciting cast that's going to draw people in. It's not generating much hype. And when that happens for a Disney film and it doesn't do much money at the box office, it's going to be on Disney Plus.

[00:36:19] I would put money on it being on Disney Plus within the next six weeks. And for that, you know, it might be better with a four pack of beer and a pizza takeaway. Right. Rather than in the cinema, because I did come away in a way that I didn't come away from Black Bag. When I came away from Black Bag, I was like, that was a very short movie, but it was completely nourishing. I felt like I'd like had an enjoyable experience. I wasn't disappointed.

[00:36:49] And surprised by it. And surprised. Yeah, my expectations were exceeded in Black Bag. This is the inverse here. But yeah, when they've spent all this money and they're promoting it and pushing it and you've got this interesting cast and all these locations and all these action sequences. The least you want is to have been entertained for the full full run. And I don't think you can say that of this film. And one thing I will say is that.

[00:37:16] I don't say this for the spoilers, but I don't it's not it's not a complicated movie. Where Black Bag, you know, you were shifting perspectives all the time. And I even said to you a couple of times, I think this is going to happen because that would have been a fun twist. It just didn't happen. No, I think. And it's like, oh, OK, well, it's not even going to give us something else where you go. Oh, that's interesting. It just goes from A to B to C to D to end.

[00:37:44] Well, as a genre, spy movies are meant to be subversive. They're meant to fool you. It's it's it's magic. It's it's meant to lead you one way, fake and go the other. This film, I we both saw the ending in our heads at the beginning. But you did come up with these theories during and whisper them to me, which I think would have been nice twist. But yeah, none of them ever materialized. But I mean, and that might be a failing of the original source material. Yeah.

[00:38:14] But then like this is the thing with that. We could get into a bigger discussion on, you know, adaptations and whether they should be beholden to the source material because we get a lot of I mean, like the Harry Potter series is being rebooted currently for TV series. Should they be more strict with what they do compared to what the films did? Or should they get a little loose with it? I don't know. I don't have an opinion on that because I don't care about Harry Potter that much.

[00:38:41] And I don't know how many of the amateur book fans there are out there. So maybe they could have twisted a bit. I think they could have because the premise itself, the guy who is not a field agent who gets trained and goes out into the field and then is double crossed by his agency is kind of interesting. Yeah. There is a germ of an interesting idea there.

[00:39:06] But I think because the characters weren't compelling enough and the story was quite simple from A to B. There are some there are some sort of like complications later on. But you're right. Well, I think we did see the ending coming all the way along. And it was an ending that, you know, signposted right from the first first few moments. I think you look at like the Kevin Costner spy movie. No way out from the 80s. Like he's working within the intelligence agency.

[00:39:33] And the idea is he is trying to figure out who the mole is and the walls are constantly closing in on him and he's unsure as to who to trust. And it's like constantly just getting tenser and more tense and more tense. This is immediately dispensing of any of the tension in that sense because the entire organization is against him. So it's just one man against it all, which is an interesting premise, I guess, in itself. But also like there is no tension.

[00:40:01] Like, you know, he's going to get revenge by the end of the film. Yeah, there's no question of that. The question for me was like, how how is. How is it connected to his wife's murder? Right. Like what's the bigger conspiracy here? Yeah. What's the bigger conspiracy? And we'll come back to that in a minute, I think. Yeah. Yeah. But your answer is maybe wait for Disney Plus.

[00:40:27] I mean, if you've got an unlimited card and you want to have a night out, which I do like, and sometimes I'll go and see these things, then yeah, go see it. But like I, you know, I didn't I didn't find it that satisfying, to be honest. No. And I think, you know, for me again, I was preaching it just before. I want people to go to theaters. But, you know, maybe this weekend, if you're not going to go see the amateur, maybe go to a local theater like the Prince Charles Cinema in London or whatever your local one is and see an older film or see something like an independent film or something.

[00:40:56] This this I don't think this deserves your money up front. If you have a subscription that's on Disney Plus, it's actually, like you say, perfect for a couple of beers or a bottle of wine and a pizza date night movie like that. That works on that. And you can pause it halfway through to go to the loo because you probably won't miss anything. Yeah. And your wife will be on the phone halfway for half of the movie anyway, and she'll get to the end and know what's happened anyway. Yeah. It's the perfect like what do they call that? Well, you're like it's not passive or second screening. Yeah. Ambient ambient cinema.

[00:41:27] Disappointing, isn't it? Yeah. But there you go. So that's that's the non-spoiler section of the amateur. Neither Tom nor I think you should go and spend your money on it unless you have a card or something you can get in unlimited. Then, of course, go ahead. It's your weekend. Do what you want. But I guess we have to sound the klaxon, the pollen alarm. What does the pollen alarm sound like? I wonder. Is it sneezing? Is it just constant sneezing? Yeah, it's just someone shouting pollen, pollen, pollen. It sounds like you're searching for your dog. Pollen.

[00:41:57] Pollen. Pollen. There you go. So spoilers are free. You can shoot from the hip now. The thing is with this film, it hasn't got that many twists because as we say, like you can pretty much guess the ending from the trailer. I suppose the big reveal is the second in command in the CIA is running a bunch of dirty OPS off books. And in many ways, he is responsible for the death of Rachel Brosnahan. Yes.

[00:42:26] And that's the hook of the original film as well. From what I understand, it's all connected there. What I was saying to you in the cinema was something that I was expecting to happen because what happens, there's a bit halfway through where Rami Malek is being pursued by the CIA. And he scans his face with his phone. Yeah.

[00:42:53] And he uses that scan and he projects that scan onto people on CCTV using his computer skills. So CCTV is picking up Rami Malek in all these different places and he's throwing the CIA off the trace. Up to this point, we'd only seen Rachel Brosnahan's death through CCTV. So to me, I was like, oh, it's not her. And they're going to reveal that she's not dead because you never see her die. Yeah.

[00:43:19] It's one of those things where in drama, in movies, in TV, until you see the body, you know, it's all fair game. And I was thinking that throughout the whole movie. I don't think she's dead. I don't think she's dead. And in the end, she was dead. It was a twist. Yeah. It's kind of like that would have been an interesting subversion is like she was in on it or something. It was some sort of like fake out. Yeah. Or they were holding her captive.

[00:43:45] And the reason they wanted to bring, draw him out into the field is like a false flag and, you know, all this sort of stuff. None of that happened. But I don't want to criticize a movie for something that didn't happen though. Right. Because that's unfair. Well, I mean, it's our podcast episode. Do what you want, mate, if you want. How dare they not put like aliens in this film? Yeah. One interesting twist, which I knew was coming anyway, was that Michael Stuhlbarg was the final guy. Because his name's on the credits. And I love Michael Stuhlbarg. I think that's how you say his name. Is it Stahlberg?

[00:44:15] I think you were right the first time. But again, don't write to us, folks. But he's in the movie and I love him. He's amazing in everything that he does. And so he's, oh, he's the, because you only ever see him with a mask. And then he's sort of revealed. And then you think, oh, Rami Malek's going to kill him. And then, you know, he doesn't. But I was expecting this big grandstanding moment. And it just, it just didn't, it felt like he was a wasted character, wasted, great actor in a wasted role as well.

[00:44:44] Well, yeah, the, one of the premises of the film, you mentioned this earlier, is, you know, Rami Malek's character is not particularly like fighty, if that's a word. But he's smart. He does like tech stuff. And he ultimately defeats Stahlberg by, Stahlberg, Stahlberg, by using his brain and basically hacking the computer's, the boat's computer to drive into Finnish water. And I mean, Finland, not water you would finish in.

[00:45:13] I don't know, like ahead of a race, maybe. And then because he's wanted, he's arrested. Yeah. That, I mean, it's, it's, it's not very like jump out of your seat and your popcorn goes flying everywhere. Like, you know, when Captain America picks up the hammer in Avengers Endgame, it's, it's not quite that. No. I mean, it's a smart move and you, you sort of go, oh, yeah, that's, that's good. And he, you know, by showing him mercy, he shows him, you know, the humanity that he wasn't able to show his wife.

[00:45:41] And so there is sort of a thematic thing. Yeah. A thematic thing. Um, but yeah, the ending I felt was a little bit underwhelming. There is a post like a coda from that as well, which I guess we'll talk about a bit, but can we go back to Chekhov's John Bernthal? We can. Because John Bernthal is in this movie. He's advertising the trailers. He's in the, one of the very first scenes were in the CIA. He's a hotshot agent. He doesn't play by the rules. He's got a beard.

[00:46:11] He's always out in the field. I imagine. That's how you tell by these, uh, these ones who don't play by the rules. They have beards. Yeah. Yeah. And he wears sports gear to the office when everyone else is in suits and ties and he bullies the nerds. And then he just disappears from the movie. And you think, what's his connection to this whole, whole story? And he comes back in for one scene and he's not connected to the story anyway. Nope. And it just, again, it was just like, huh?

[00:46:40] Is that, that's what, that's what John Bernthal is going to do here. Yeah. It feels like it's, uh, teasing you to have something more and then has no idea what to do with it. Again, maybe this is all beholden to the book, but maybe you don't have to be. I'm not saying, you know, Bernthal had to be in on the conspiracy. Maybe he ends up helping Rami Malek in the last moments or something because he's also working the case to take this guy down or something like that. You could add him in in some way and give him an action sequence.

[00:47:09] And it would sort of play to his sort of punisher strengths. Give him a machine gun and let him do his stuff. Yeah. It's odd to cast someone in this role for them not to go anywhere. Yeah. And I think that's my complaint with Laurence Fishburne as well. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I was just digging into the background of this film a little more whilst we were talking. And this film was also hit by the strikes. Right. And so shooting at the, they were shooting at the beginning of the strikes and ended and then picked up at the end.

[00:47:39] So maybe availability was difficult at the end. So they couldn't get Bernthal in for as much as they want. But again, I'm coming up with excuses. Like just write the character out if you don't have a satisfying ending for him. That's interesting. Very odd. Yeah. That makes sense. Because his scene, his final scene is sort of in a cafe and it kind of could have been filmed on a set when he was free. But when he wasn't shooting on the accountant to whatever he was doing. But that felt like very disjointed.

[00:48:07] As did Laurence Fishburne's character, who, like I said, comes back later on in the movie and seems like he wants to ally with the, with the amateur having, the amateur having taken down basically the, the CIA bosses who were, who were, let's say. Yeah. They had ulterior motives and were working in the gray and sort of ended up being exposed in the end. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:31] It's, I, I, I, I wish I had sort of a, a reason as to why Bernthal was there, but like the Laurence Fishburne thing, I think it's interesting that they want to tease a sequel. Yeah. Because who on earth wants this? Yeah. I, I don't, but I guess like as a writer, you want to take a punt. So I understand the pitch, but what is that pitch? Like what is that second film? Does he have to learn how to shoot people?

[00:49:01] Yeah. I guess he would have to be drawn in back into another situation where he was. Yeah. Back in the field. What's it? His nan gets killed this time or something. Um, you know, he's like someone breaks his plane. Um, I don't know. Yeah. It's an interesting one. I mean, those two together could, you know, lead on to do something else. Um, but, uh, yeah, I can't imagine people are going to be clamoring for it. No.

[00:49:28] And I think, uh, the box office that this won't get will also seal its fate. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I still would like to see now if it is his nan. Yeah. Or like Rachel Brosnahan does come back from the dead. She wasn't dead at all. They're holding her. I'm sure. That's part two. It's the conspiracy. She's like, no, I need you. I need you to be an agent this time and actually finish your training. And then he gets a gun and like, oh, I don't know what to do with it. Yeah.

[00:49:56] That I, I can't wait for two more hours of the amateur, but like, do you. So, uh, now you see me, the magic film. Yes. It's just been announced to have a third and a fourth, uh, which makes me sad. Yeah. But the fact that like the second one was called now you see me too. Yeah. And not now you don't is the biggest waste of time in Hollywood history. It's a meme at this point. I'm not making this joke for the first time. But then now the third one is right. But it's, it's now you see me colon.

[00:50:26] Now you don't. They still don't seem to understand the joke. It's a, it's a real waste of time. So would you call the amateur sequel, the amateur two, or would you call it the professional? I was going to say even more amateur. Amateurish. Amateurish. Yeah. Well, amateur hour. Amateur hour. Amateur dramatics. Uh, what else is there? Well, uh, I'm trying to think of anything else now. Amateur dramatics. I like that.

[00:50:55] Um, yeah. All the amateurs. You could pluralize it. The amateurs. Yes. He gets a second person to train with who he does actually worse than him. The other guy that was in the office with him, you know, the, the sort of slightly heavy guy who's in a lot of things. Um, it always seems to play the same character. He then gets drawn into the field as the even more amateur. I think he's in severance currently is where a lot of people. No, no, no. You're getting mixed up. They look the same. They look very similar, but I think they're different.

[00:51:25] Uh, yeah. Okay. He was recently in, no, he isn't. Oh, he's in one episode of severance, but I'm, I'm right, but wrong. Um, so Adrian Martinez is the man we're talking about. Yeah. I see him. I saw him recently in unfrosted, which is a film I did not like. Right. Um, yes. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. I've seen him in. Yeah. Only murders in the building. That's what I've seen him in and Renfield as well. Oh yeah. Yeah. Another, another heavy hitter right there. Yeah. But I mean, do you have any final things to mention about, uh, the amateur?

[00:51:55] I think I'm pretty spent at this point. A couple of things I wanted to mention first of all about the women in the film. Um, we've mentioned Rachel Brosnahan. We've mentioned Katrina Balfe. Rachel Brosnahan, uh, obviously her character gets killed off early in the movie. I mean, people will say it's a fridging and they're right, right? The killing of the wife then acts as his motivation to go out and get revenge. You know, it's a tale of as old as time. It's tired.

[00:52:25] It's been done. Um, which is why I thought, you know, the kidnapping and still being alive might've been a nice way to go about it. But then you have Katrina Balfe come in who, you know, is a sympathetic character. She's also lost her husband. Um, so they sort of, uh, they, and they also have this very nice platonic moment where they share the bed together and it's very sweet. And they miss the, the human contact. They both have that longing for just some human contact and have that lovely moment.

[00:52:54] And then they escape and then she gets killed. And again, that sort of has to be become a sacrifice to keep him moving forward in the plot. There's two main, I mean, the head of the CIA is also a woman, but there's two main character, female characters in this. And they both get killed off to, to act as plot. Um, you know, I imagine in the original version, the CIA new CIA director was probably a man.

[00:53:22] So they probably threw this actress into appease that thought though. It's, it is a correct assessment of the film. I would say, and I would also add, you mentioned that platonic, uh, cuddling on the sofa scene. That's actually how we watched the film as well. Cause you know, we had those reclining chairs at the Odeon and we had a little spoon. Um, I'll let you figure out who's the big spoon and a little spoon folks. Uh, no spoon. Um, uh, yeah. So yeah, at least it wasn't forking.

[00:53:50] So, uh, I tried to just gloss over that one, but I couldn't get away with it. Yeah. So that is, that is actually a very astute observation. And I think that's probably a result of the original script and leads into my point of they should have just sort of moved away from the original book slash film. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then one more thing I just want to mention, and I know, uh, this is something I shared with you, but, um, when I was looking into the amateur, when I was looking for the

[00:54:18] trailer, one of the first things that came up on YouTube was the Siskel and Ebert review of the amateur. Right. And so three or four minutes long, I thought I'm going to watch this, see what they had to say about it. And as they went along, it was all the same thing. The main character is miscast. He doesn't sell it as the spy. The, the plotting is preposterous. None of this stuff like makes sense. It's you would care more if the characters worked, but they don't.

[00:54:45] Um, and yeah, it was just like, they could have just been, and I would urge anyone who's listens to this, go, go and watch that review of Siskel and Ebert after seeing the film. And what they say, they might as well have been talking about this new version of the amateur, which to me suggests that there's something inherently wrong with the source material, but like give, give, make a new IP, give it to a new screenwriter. Who's got a new idea. Don't get, you know, just cause Rami Malek's earned all this money.

[00:55:15] Doesn't, doesn't mean you have to recycle this thing with him in it because that's how Hollywood works. It's like, do something new, do something interesting. Rami Malek, more like hammy Malek. Am I right? Uh, yeah, that just came to me. I wish it hadn't. No, you're right. And I, I think, um, I think if, if this had maybe gone, well, the thing is it obviously had been in gestation for such a long time and I'm looking at the Wikipedia now and there was two other screenwriters attached to it over the years.

[00:55:42] So it has, has been iterated upon and this is what we ended up with. That's the, that's the baffling thing is it's gone through all these eyes and this is where we are. This is, this feels like, uh, it's been designed by committee. Like they don't want to offend anyone. It's right. Real down the middle stuff. Uh, it's, it takes zero swings and that's really the most offensive thing. I'd rather walk out of a film that was atrocious. That was like bonkers. Yeah. Yeah. This was just boring.

[00:56:10] And that's, that's the, that's a fate worse than death. Yeah. And I don't want to take away. I didn't want to come on here and like go really negative on this film because you know how hard it is to make. Yeah. These, these things and the director stood there and it was like all these early mornings that we had and all these horrible locations where there was no catering and blah, blah, blah. And yeah, I get that. There's so many creative people on this film. There are moments where it looks stunning. Uh, they're in some great locations.

[00:56:39] Um, you know, but there's just something that just doesn't, just doesn't come together and it feels quite half-hearted. And I think that's the worst part of it, right? It's kind of commit to the bit, like make it preposterous. But yeah. Or make it thrilling. Like make it tense. Yeah. Like ratchet up the drama. Whereas it, it, it, it doesn't do either of those things. And that's, as I say, probably worse than anything else you could say about a film is it just didn't do anything for me. I didn't feel stirred to vomit or to cheer.

[00:57:10] Just a spoon. Just a spoon. Well, I think that's a beautiful way to sign us off. Uh, it's been a pleasure having you back on the show, Mr. Butler. Oh, it's always a pleasure to be here, Scott. Thank you so much for having me back. Thank you for taking me along to the premiere. I'm sure there'll be many more in our future. Mission Impossible calls later this year. Perhaps we'll have to, uh, embark on a mission perhaps. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There's a lot of good films coming out this year. We'll, I'll try and get you along to something else, but, um, I think you're underselling it a little bit.

[00:57:39] There was also trips to the kitchen store and also for pizza. It was delicious. Delicious. Can you, can you plug the pizza place? Let's give them a shout out. It's called Breadstall in Berwick Street and they serve pizza by the quarter and it's ginormous. And the truffle dip is delicious. And I told my wife the story when I got home. This is no word of a lie. Uh, I'm, uh, I like to keep myself in relatively okay shape, but I am a good eater. I like to eat a lot. And Tom, you were like, oh, I'll have a quarter, two slices.

[00:58:07] And I was thinking, oh, I'll probably have two quarters or a half perhaps. And, but I thought, no, I'll be a good boy with you. And we had the two slices and you said, oh, I'm done. And I was like, okay, I guess I'm done too. I wanted more pizza. Don't let anyone pizza shame you, Scott. Like just let your pizza flag fly. You can go crazy next time. I am a pizza boy. Uh, I certainly am. But yeah, it's been great to have you back on the show. Tom, where can people find you online?

[00:58:33] And, uh, you know, I know James Bond A to Z is on a hiatus, but I do urge people to go and check it out and tell us a little bit more about that for those who haven't heard about the show. Uh, yeah. So James Bond A to Z was a podcast that we did. Uh, it was sort of a lockdown project as a lot of these things are, but it sort of covered the story of the making of the James Bond film. So it's not necessarily about the films themselves. It's about the people that made it. So that's why I'm always like, you know, celebrating the creatives behind these things, but it goes from A to Z.

[00:58:59] There's an episode on every single film, every single actor, every single composer, uh, writer, direct production designer. It's a real deep dive into it. And the beauty of it is it's evergreen, right? Because they're not making any more James Bond films. They've stopped making them. You've heard that right? Yeah, they're done now. They're done now. Yeah. So that's over. Um, and so you can sort of listen as a complete package, but, um, you know, me and the two guys that did it with Brendan and Tom, we love doing it.

[00:59:25] It's just so time consuming and it was very research heavy. And so the podcast came to its natural conclusion and, you know, we dip back in time to time when they announced the Amazon deal, we sort of came back and had a good chat about that. And, um, I think we're still just in discussions about whether, you know, we want to keep chasing that, that tale because with Amazon here, it could, we could be making a rod for him back. I mean, there's so many metaphors there, but you know what I mean?

[00:59:53] It's, it's a lot, but the 20, the a hundred so episodes that we did on the A to Z will exist forever. So yeah, I hope you, uh, if you haven't listened, you enjoy them. And you'll find a spy hard or two in there as well. So that's always a treat. Indeed. I think you did at least two episodes. I did, I think two. Cam did one. Yes, that's right. Yeah. I did license to kill and the spy who loved me. It was. Yeah. I think that sounds about right. Yeah.

[01:00:19] When we were really up against it, when we got to the teas, it was, uh, it was, uh, it was quite a, quite a mammoth undertaking that, but yeah, you stepped in and, uh, absolutely, you know, brought the spy, spy jinx. Um, so yeah, I appreciate you using our branded word there. Thank you. But yeah, I mean, I'm on, I'm online. I, um, I don't really use Twitter anymore cause it's a hell hole, but yeah, you can find me on Instagram if, uh, if you want to see what I want to. I'll have Tom tagged in all the posts when this goes out. So if you want to follow him, go find it there.

[01:00:47] There'll be links in the show notes below to the James Bond, James Bond, A to Z podcast, I should say. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate that. I'll leave it there. Um, and of course, earlier this week, we were talking about target the Gene Hackman film from the 1980s. So if you haven't tuned into that pop back to the feed and listen to that, but next week, uh, speaking of men on a mission, I guess, uh, we're keeping it thematically the same, but a far superior film.

[01:01:13] We are looking at 2014's The Equalizer with Denzel Washington. Love that film. It's a good one. It's a good one. And we actually have the screenwriter of all three Equalizer films, Mr. Richard Wenk on with us later in the week as well to talk about all three films and all of his work, putting them together. It's quite the deep dive. So if you'd like to hear from the screenwriters when we interview them, that's one to put in your diaries. Don't miss out.

[01:01:41] So your mission, folks, should you choose to accept it, is to join us next week as we take a look at 2014's The Equalizer. Uh, I think you'll enjoy it. Uh, we certainly did. If you don't already follow us online, make sure you follow us at SpyHards, S-P-Y-H-A-R-D-S, wherever you might social your medias. Um, you'll find me probably talking about Condor Man or Never Say Never Again, as I want to do. Uh, if you don't already, please consider joining us over on our Patreon,

[01:02:10] patreonpatreon.com slash spyhards. I won't dive into the reasons why, but if you want an extra hundred or so bonus episodes in your ears, why not? That's what I always say. But until next time, folks, remember, every hour on SpyHards is amateur hour.