188. This Means War (2012)

[00:00:36] Hello and welcome to SpyHards Podcast, where your hosts go deep undercover into the world of spy movies to decipher which films make the knock list. But remember this information is strictly for your ears only. I'm Agent Scott.

[00:00:51] And I'm Cam the cruise ship captain.

[00:00:53] Permission to come aboard sir?

[00:00:56] Granted.

[00:00:58] It's the love boat!

[00:01:00] Oh it certainly is. Welcome aboard everyone, toot toot. And don't forget your life jackets.

[00:01:05] You just call me Captain Steubing.

[00:01:08] I don't get that reference.

[00:01:09] That's the love boat captain.

[00:01:11] I've never seen it.

[00:01:12] Nor have I.

[00:01:15] Well if anything we're true to form because uh many people have criticized us over the years for not being experts or for knowing nothing.

[00:01:24] And uh yeah well that's uh par for the course really.

[00:01:27] That's right when it comes to the love boat, I will not be launching a spin-off podcast.

[00:01:31] What would you call it? The love pod?

[00:01:33] That sounds so like, I don't know, I think of like a romantic advice podcast being called the love pod.

[00:01:39] Um, hmm.

[00:01:42] Uh, Steubingcast?

[00:01:44] Sure.

[00:01:45] I mean I could already hear people like unsubscribing from us and trying to find other podcasts elsewhere.

[00:01:49] So maybe we shouldn't pitch it so hard.

[00:01:51] Yeah I don't know like because to me I don't know anything about the love boat mythology.

[00:01:55] So I don't really know how to.

[00:01:57] Could we tie into like boat iconography?

[00:02:01] Anchors Away or?

[00:02:02] But then, well there's actually a famous uh Gene Kelly musical called Anchors Away.

[00:02:06] So maybe people think you're like doing a tribute to Gene Kelly movies.

[00:02:10] Well maybe you'd get the extra listeners though.

[00:02:12] They'd turn up for Gene Kelly and then you'd be talking to them about Stuber or whatever you just mentioned.

[00:02:16] That was a Dave Bautista movie.

[00:02:19] Okay sorry, Dave Bautista's in my head recently.

[00:02:21] I can't shake it.

[00:02:22] Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:23] Uh, perhaps, perhaps.

[00:02:25] But getting us back on course, if we're going to use the uh boat terminology.

[00:02:32] Was that aimed at my joke?

[00:02:34] No that was just a boat.

[00:02:35] That's the boat changing course.

[00:02:37] Is that why you were sectioned once?

[00:02:39] Did you make that in a public space, that noise?

[00:02:42] Or?

[00:02:42] That's right.

[00:02:42] Yeah, okay.

[00:02:45] I have questions but I won't ask them now.

[00:02:48] But I do have one question I will ask.

[00:02:50] What are we talking about this week?

[00:02:52] Yes, we are tackling 2012's This Means War.

[00:02:56] A star-studded rom-com starring the likes of Reese Witherspoon, Chris Pine and Tom Hardy.

[00:03:03] It's a rom-com for the ages.

[00:03:06] In a rare occurrence, this is a film that I've seen that you haven't seen.

[00:03:11] That is very true.

[00:03:12] Although I have seen it now.

[00:03:14] So, oh, I was hoping to do this blind actually.

[00:03:16] I was hoping to just sort of like, you're just reviewing something you haven't seen.

[00:03:20] Hmm.

[00:03:21] No, yeah.

[00:03:21] I am up to date now on This Means War, but you saw it, I guess, originally?

[00:03:25] Did you see it in theaters or at home?

[00:03:26] I saw it in theaters.

[00:03:28] Oh, okay.

[00:03:30] I'll tell you for why.

[00:03:31] Hmm.

[00:03:33] I was, going back to the love boat, I was all loved up on some Chris Pine.

[00:03:40] Okay.

[00:03:41] I'd just come off of the highs of Star Trek 2009 and the lesser high of Star Trek Into Darkness.

[00:03:48] And I was like, this guy's a good Kirk.

[00:03:49] I want to see more Chris Pine stuff.

[00:03:51] Correct.

[00:03:51] I went in...

[00:03:52] Corrective.

[00:03:53] Actually, Into Darkness was not out yet.

[00:03:55] Oh, maybe that's why I was hyped about it.

[00:03:57] I thought Into Darkness was 2011.

[00:03:59] Nope.

[00:04:00] 2013.

[00:04:01] Oh, wow.

[00:04:01] There you go.

[00:04:02] So maybe I was just sort of anticipating Into Darkness.

[00:04:05] Well, that's probably why I was so high on Chris Pine, because Into Darkness hadn't

[00:04:07] come out yet.

[00:04:08] Yeah, this is that period where they're trying to figure out how to make this man a star and

[00:04:12] capitalize on the success of 2009.

[00:04:14] And you could argue they still haven't sussed it out.

[00:04:17] I think he found his place.

[00:04:19] But yeah, like, I don't think he ever became that kind of, you know, Matt Damon superstar.

[00:04:26] Matinee idol wannabe type thing.

[00:04:28] No, I don't think so.

[00:04:30] No.

[00:04:30] Although I don't know if Matt Damon would refer to himself as a matinee idol now.

[00:04:33] But no, like, Chris Pine never became kind of that heartthrob leading man that's at

[00:04:39] the, you know, this, like, basically launching projects just off his name.

[00:04:44] Right.

[00:04:44] But I was quite invested in the marketing for this.

[00:04:47] Like, I remember seeing the trailer and being quite hyped about it.

[00:04:49] The trailer is actually really good.

[00:04:51] Like, I'd recommend people go and check out the trailer if they haven't watched the

[00:04:53] film.

[00:04:53] Or even if you have and just want a palate cleanse.

[00:04:56] Check out the trailer because it's quite good.

[00:04:59] Like, it will make you pumped about the film.

[00:05:01] And I was anticipating a Chris Pine film.

[00:05:04] I was aware of Tom Hardy.

[00:05:06] I'd seen some of his work at this point.

[00:05:07] And he has the same surname as me.

[00:05:09] So I was always on board the Tom Hardy train.

[00:05:12] And Reese Witherspoon, for me, has always been a tried and trusted actress you get in sort

[00:05:18] of rom-coms that always provides something.

[00:05:20] Yeah.

[00:05:21] I mean, she was a megastar at this point.

[00:05:23] She was known as, like, the queen of rom-coms for this time period.

[00:05:27] So her name, there's a reason she has top billing.

[00:05:31] And it would have been very much sold as a Reese Witherspoon vehicle.

[00:05:35] Yeah, exactly.

[00:05:36] So I was anticipating it.

[00:05:37] I saw it in theaters.

[00:05:38] I remember having a good time with it.

[00:05:41] That's all I recall.

[00:05:42] And I'll leave that there.

[00:05:43] Because if you haven't experienced This Means War and you want to get in the trenches,

[00:05:51] here is your synopsis.

[00:05:54] This Means War.

[00:05:55] It's spy against spy.

[00:05:58] Two top CIA operatives wage an epic battle against one another after they discover that

[00:06:05] they are dating the same woman.

[00:06:07] Dun, dun, dun.

[00:06:09] Oh, no.

[00:06:10] Not the same woman.

[00:06:13] I was sort of halfway through watching this.

[00:06:15] And it came to me that, you know, I mean, I'm British.

[00:06:20] So I'm Tom Hardy in this.

[00:06:22] And, you know, you're from Canada.

[00:06:24] I think Chris Pine's American.

[00:06:25] So but let's just North Americanize it for a second.

[00:06:28] Is this you and I fighting over Reese Witherspoon?

[00:06:32] Um, I just wouldn't be involved in such a situation.

[00:06:36] Yeah, you would.

[00:06:37] What would you do when you?

[00:06:38] OK, so if you tie it down to a very moment in the film and they both find out they're

[00:06:41] both dating the same woman.

[00:06:43] Yeah.

[00:06:43] What is your instant reaction?

[00:06:45] Oh, my God.

[00:06:47] Oh, God.

[00:06:47] This is so awkward.

[00:06:49] Oh, I was in this situation once.

[00:06:51] I just walked away.

[00:06:52] Yeah.

[00:06:52] I was just like, no, I'm not.

[00:06:53] I don't do drama.

[00:06:54] Sorry.

[00:06:55] Later.

[00:06:56] Wow.

[00:06:57] I don't do drama.

[00:06:58] What a statement.

[00:06:59] Like, that's a badass thing to do.

[00:07:00] You just like you just dropped everything, even with the person you were seeing.

[00:07:03] Yeah.

[00:07:04] Wow.

[00:07:05] OK, well, good luck, guys.

[00:07:07] Good for you.

[00:07:08] How did they get on?

[00:07:09] They didn't.

[00:07:11] So, you know, everyone went their separate ways at a certain point.

[00:07:14] And that was that.

[00:07:16] I guess this means peace for you.

[00:07:19] Yeah.

[00:07:20] I mean, my life is fine.

[00:07:22] I did all right.

[00:07:23] Thanks.

[00:07:24] Yeah, I'm OK.

[00:07:24] OK, don't worry about me.

[00:07:26] Don't weep for me.

[00:07:27] You know, when you turn this podcast off, you know, this afternoon or evening.

[00:07:31] They're already weeping whilst listening to it.

[00:07:32] That's right.

[00:07:33] Yeah.

[00:07:33] All right.

[00:07:34] Yeah.

[00:07:34] OK, well, maybe we'll get a little bit more into how we deal with it further down the line.

[00:07:39] But that's your synopsis.

[00:07:40] Very brief.

[00:07:43] One of the shortest synopsis I've ever read.

[00:07:45] Yeah, no, that's very true.

[00:07:47] And I was just looking up Tom Hardy because I remember a lot of excitement about him being

[00:07:51] in this movie at the time.

[00:07:52] Chris Pine, obvious.

[00:07:54] Coming off of Star Trek.

[00:07:55] Reese Witherspoon, obvious.

[00:07:56] But I was trying to remember why there was so much excitement about Tom Hardy being in

[00:08:00] this movie at the time.

[00:08:01] And I'm looking at like the lead up to that, to this movie.

[00:08:05] He'd done Inception, which was his big kind of breakthrough in North America, at least.

[00:08:10] Sure.

[00:08:10] Yeah.

[00:08:11] He'd done Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, and he had done Warrior.

[00:08:15] So those are three really showy performances that I think got a lot of the cinephiles hyper

[00:08:24] excited for him.

[00:08:25] And this was kind of the crossover into real mainstream.

[00:08:30] Because Inception is a big hit, but it's not necessarily a...

[00:08:33] I guess it is a mainstream movie.

[00:08:35] Christopher Nolan is such an odd filmmaker because he makes movies that on the face of

[00:08:40] them don't feel like mainstream, you know, right down the middle movies.

[00:08:43] But they play that way.

[00:08:45] Well, much like me saying I'm not too sure this is a well-known film.

[00:08:49] Yeah.

[00:08:49] And you're laughing at me.

[00:08:50] I think you inferring that Inception was an indie movie is a laughable inference.

[00:08:55] So I'll joke about you on that one.

[00:08:57] It is laughable.

[00:08:58] It is laughable.

[00:08:58] And it obviously had a lot of stars in that movie.

[00:09:01] DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt.

[00:09:03] Like there was a lot of appeal in that movie.

[00:09:06] But yeah, I guess like it was really cinephiles that latched on to Tom Hardy big time.

[00:09:13] Because also Bronson was in the past as well.

[00:09:16] Yep.

[00:09:16] And suddenly it was like this guy is the coolest.

[00:09:20] Mainstream has obviously caught on because of the popularity of Inception.

[00:09:24] And this felt like the movie where they were like, no, no, he's front and center.

[00:09:28] Because he wasn't front and center with Inception.

[00:09:30] No.

[00:09:31] Bronson he was, but that is a bit of an indie film.

[00:09:34] Warrior was a movie that should have been a big hit.

[00:09:38] And, you know, in a different era would have been.

[00:09:41] It had that rocky feel-good vibe to it.

[00:09:44] I saw it.

[00:09:45] It had fantastic performances.

[00:09:46] And it just did not capture any theater-going audience.

[00:09:50] It was more of a home movie, you know, discovery.

[00:09:54] But like I remember going to see an advanced screening of it.

[00:09:58] Because they were doing, they obviously didn't know what they kind of had.

[00:10:00] Or at least not until it was getting closer to release.

[00:10:05] And then they realized, oh, this might actually play.

[00:10:08] And so I saw it a week in advance.

[00:10:10] And I remember just being absolutely bowled over by the film as well as Tom Hardy's performance.

[00:10:16] And then sitting and waiting to see the box office on its official opening the next week.

[00:10:21] Thinking like, oh, I think this may catch on.

[00:10:24] And just being like, nope.

[00:10:27] Nope.

[00:10:27] Did not catch on.

[00:10:28] I remember really enjoying Warrior.

[00:10:32] I wasn't really paying attention to the reception of films at that point, though.

[00:10:35] So that went super far over my head.

[00:10:39] But that does sort of lend into why the Tom Hardy hype was building up.

[00:10:43] And also I think Chris Pine's star was obviously rising as well with the Star Trek films and stuff like that.

[00:10:47] So kind of a perfect storm with having Reese Witherspoon there as well.

[00:10:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:10:52] Big time.

[00:10:53] And I will just add, I don't usually throw in Patreon plugs this early in the episode.

[00:10:59] But we got bills to pay, folks.

[00:11:01] So here it is anyway.

[00:11:03] We're actually going to tackle a Tom Hardy film later this week on the Patreon, Legend.

[00:11:09] A film that he did a couple of years after this in 2015.

[00:11:13] Again, one of those ones necessarily didn't get the attention I think it deserved.

[00:11:18] We'll get into that discussion on the episode.

[00:11:20] A really interesting episode we've got there.

[00:11:23] So I'd go check that out if you're particularly inclined on more Tom Hardy chat.

[00:11:27] That's right.

[00:11:27] That's a great plug there, Scott.

[00:11:29] Thank you.

[00:11:30] Thank you.

[00:11:31] I can do this all day.

[00:11:33] And also I will just throw in another plug.

[00:11:35] If all things go according to plan later this week as well on Friday,

[00:11:39] we're going to be joined by one of the screenwriters behind this film,

[00:11:43] Mr. Timothy Dowling, who's done a couple of other spy films as well,

[00:11:47] wrote on night and day.

[00:11:48] We've got some stuff to tackle with him and talk about.

[00:11:51] But we'll be discussing mostly This Means War because it was really his child from what we've been told.

[00:11:55] So look out for that in your podcast feeds on Friday as well.

[00:11:57] A lovely spy master interview where we go deep with the writer of a spy film.

[00:12:02] We love doing it.

[00:12:04] Yes, we do.

[00:12:04] For sure.

[00:12:05] Yes.

[00:12:06] But let's get into the sort of behind the scenes of This Means War a little bit more.

[00:12:11] How did the war get started?

[00:12:13] Okay.

[00:12:14] So this one has two story credits.

[00:12:17] So we'll have to determine what actually was the story there,

[00:12:20] how this movie actually originated.

[00:12:23] And we'll do that when we talk to Timothy Dowling.

[00:12:25] But let's start with Mr. Dowling himself.

[00:12:28] So he, as I said, has a story and a screenplay credit.

[00:12:32] So he actually didn't just have a story.

[00:12:34] He actually did a full-length screenplay for this film.

[00:12:37] And he is a Boston-born writer and actor and got his debut in the industry with a 1998 episode of Two Guys, A Girl, and A Pizza Place.

[00:12:47] He actually acted in that episode.

[00:12:49] Oh, right.

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:50] Okay.

[00:12:50] I remember that show.

[00:12:51] And then in 1999, he co-wrote and acted in the short George Lucas in Love,

[00:12:57] which got a huge amount of attention because it was released around the same time as The Phantom Menace.

[00:13:03] Ah.

[00:13:04] Smart marketing.

[00:13:05] Yeah.

[00:13:06] Kind of like my Patreon plug just then.

[00:13:07] And it was a riff on Shakespeare in Love.

[00:13:10] Ah.

[00:13:11] And it was actually quite well-received and advertised.

[00:13:15] I remember reading about it in Entertainment Weekly magazine.

[00:13:19] So a fan film, ostensibly.

[00:13:21] Yes.

[00:13:22] Like an indie film in a way.

[00:13:23] Is it like got Star Wars gimmicky stuff in it though?

[00:13:26] Like lightsabers and things like that?

[00:13:28] Or is it more like a real world?

[00:13:29] It's real world, but it's how George Lucas...

[00:13:32] It's a comic take on how George Lucas was inspired to write Star Wars.

[00:13:36] Okay.

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:38] So I think it's going to be kind of a fun subject to bring up actually with Timothy Dowling

[00:13:44] because that was a very specific time and place where Star Wars was a big deal.

[00:13:49] Do we bring lightsabers to the discussion?

[00:13:51] That's the real question.

[00:13:52] I mean, might as well.

[00:13:54] I should have a lightsaber actually.

[00:13:55] Why would I even advertise I'm going to bring one to the...

[00:13:57] Do you have a lightsaber?

[00:13:58] I do have one.

[00:14:00] Yes.

[00:14:00] It's from a Halloween costume where I was Kylo Ren.

[00:14:02] So I actually have his lightsaber.

[00:14:05] Do you have the mask?

[00:14:07] Yes.

[00:14:08] Why are you not wearing it now?

[00:14:10] Well, at this point, is it cool to wear anything associated with the sequel trilogy?

[00:14:15] No, it was just more for me really.

[00:14:16] Oh, okay.

[00:14:17] Like I just...

[00:14:18] It's just to hide all that.

[00:14:20] Well, fair enough.

[00:14:22] I'll put my Snoke mask away as well.

[00:14:24] Well, but so he basically kind of got launched off George Lucas in Love.

[00:14:32] Like that, I think, helped pave the way.

[00:14:34] We'll find out exactly how the trajectory worked when we talked to him.

[00:14:38] But it got him a lot of attention.

[00:14:40] And like he then goes on to have a story and screenplay credit on 2008's Role Models,

[00:14:45] the comedy film that was like a pretty big hit with Paul Rudd.

[00:14:50] And then he does uncredited work on Night and Day.

[00:14:53] He co-wrote the 2011 Adam Sandler, Jennifer Aniston comedy, Just Go With It,

[00:14:59] and rolled from there right into This Means War.

[00:15:02] I remember that Adam Sandler, Jennifer Aniston film being quite good.

[00:15:07] They just recently reunited on a Netflix film that I haven't seen.

[00:15:10] But I remember that original one being pretty funny.

[00:15:12] Yeah, they did the murder mystery movies on Netflix.

[00:15:15] That's right.

[00:15:16] Yeah.

[00:15:16] Yeah.

[00:15:17] And since This Means War, he wrote Pixels, the Adam Sandler comedy.

[00:15:24] Okay.

[00:15:24] The big budget one.

[00:15:25] And then also Office Christmas Party.

[00:15:27] The guy from Rest of Development?

[00:15:29] Maybe.

[00:15:30] Yeah.

[00:15:30] Jason Bateman, maybe?

[00:15:31] Yeah, I think so.

[00:15:32] I didn't see Office Christmas Party.

[00:15:34] Of these credits, that's the only one I haven't seen.

[00:15:36] I think Jennifer Aniston's in it.

[00:15:38] Okay.

[00:15:38] All right.

[00:15:38] I think I have seen it, but I can't recall.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:42] Okay.

[00:15:42] So the other story credit on this film is by Marcus Goudison, who has a very slim filmography.

[00:15:49] I know nothing really about this man.

[00:15:52] He directed the 2003 comedy The Scheme, which co-starred Jimmy Fallon.

[00:15:57] And it's one of those movies that was a small, independent production.

[00:16:00] I think Jimmy Fallon's probably in it for five minutes, but they put his face right on the poster.

[00:16:05] It's that kind of thing.

[00:16:07] Yeah.

[00:16:07] We've seen that many times with famous comedians who had small bit parts and then find themselves

[00:16:11] as the face of a low-budget movie later once they become famous.

[00:16:16] There's a spy movie we've tackled that did exactly that.

[00:16:18] I'm trying to recall what it was.

[00:16:20] Are you thinking of the one with Sophia Loren?

[00:16:24] No.

[00:16:25] Oh, no.

[00:16:25] I remember what it was.

[00:16:26] It was The Package.

[00:16:28] Okay.

[00:16:29] With Gene Hackman.

[00:16:30] The original poster had Gene Hackman and the female actress that was the co-star of the film on the artwork, Joanna Cassidy.

[00:16:39] But in re-releases, Tommy Lee Jones is also in the film.

[00:16:43] And he is front and center with Gene Hackman.

[00:16:46] But he was not big in 1989.

[00:16:48] Right.

[00:16:49] Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:49] That's a great example.

[00:16:50] Yeah.

[00:16:51] But I looked up the scheme and it has like a 2.3 grade on IMDb.

[00:16:57] So I don't know if it was very popular.

[00:17:00] They should go back to the drawing board on that scheme.

[00:17:02] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:04] So then Goudison wrote and directed the 2004 short Carboy and has a story credit on this.

[00:17:11] That is the man's entire filmography.

[00:17:13] Okay.

[00:17:14] I'm sure Timothy has a story about that.

[00:17:17] Yeah.

[00:17:18] So somewhere along the way, this developing concept was snapped up by producers Will Smith and James Lasseter.

[00:17:25] And yes, it is that Will Smith.

[00:17:27] Oh, I was expecting like the screenwriter Will Smith as, you know, Big Willie style Will Smith.

[00:17:34] Uh-huh.

[00:17:34] Yeah.

[00:17:34] So I would suspect he was developing this as a starring vehicle potentially for himself.

[00:17:39] Sure.

[00:17:40] This is around the same sort of time he's making things like Snatch, right?

[00:17:44] Hitch?

[00:17:44] Not Snatch.

[00:17:45] Hitch.

[00:17:45] I always do that.

[00:17:46] Hitch.

[00:17:47] Imagine Will Smith in Snatch.

[00:17:51] Give me that effing shooter.

[00:17:53] Like, I just can't hear him say that.

[00:17:55] Yeah.

[00:17:56] And then there's Snitch with The Rock.

[00:17:57] So we got to tie the three of them all together.

[00:17:59] Oh, wow.

[00:18:02] That's a cinematic universe I don't want to be in.

[00:18:05] Yeah.

[00:18:05] Yeah.

[00:18:06] So here's the question.

[00:18:08] Which character is Will Smith playing?

[00:18:12] In Snatch or in this?

[00:18:14] No, in this.

[00:18:14] Because hypothetically, he's looking at this as a vehicle for him to star in.

[00:18:17] So which character?

[00:18:19] I don't know.

[00:18:20] Okay.

[00:18:22] Actually, that's an easy question.

[00:18:24] I don't know why I'm thinking about it.

[00:18:24] It's the Chris Pine character.

[00:18:26] Oh, yeah.

[00:18:26] It's the American.

[00:18:27] Yeah.

[00:18:27] Yeah.

[00:18:28] And also, like, I don't think Will Smith can play homely and demure.

[00:18:37] Tom Hardy wasn't playing homely.

[00:18:39] Get out of here.

[00:18:40] He was playing a bit of it.

[00:18:42] Like, he was all loved up and saying I love you and stuff on the second date.

[00:18:46] He was the...

[00:18:48] The film is portraying him as a bit of a wimp.

[00:18:50] But, you know, for many people, that's like the pinnacle of what people want.

[00:18:56] I mean, I'm going to say, I went through Letterboxd after this, and it was a sea of people outraged that any woman would choose Chris Pine over Tom Hardy.

[00:19:05] It blew...

[00:19:06] It's in my notes like 20 times.

[00:19:08] How on earth Reese Witherspoon went with Chris Pine?

[00:19:11] I mean, really, when she found out they were actually, like, playing her off against the...

[00:19:16] Like, in that sort of dining room scene.

[00:19:18] Yeah.

[00:19:18] I would have walked.

[00:19:19] Uh-huh.

[00:19:20] Like, I would have gone.

[00:19:21] But let's just imagine I stayed for a second.

[00:19:23] Like, there's no way I'm going for, like, Mr...

[00:19:27] I'm a...

[00:19:28] What's it?

[00:19:28] A boat captain.

[00:19:30] And also, like, I have a pool.

[00:19:33] I can look at people's underwear while they're swimming in my house.

[00:19:36] That was weird.

[00:19:37] Yeah.

[00:19:38] Yeah, that was a bit weird.

[00:19:39] A bit creepy.

[00:19:40] There's a story behind how they ended up doing that.

[00:19:42] But, yeah, I do not understand the logical leaps you'd go through to pick Chris Pine out of those two.

[00:19:49] And that's not an aesthetic thing.

[00:19:51] It's more the personalities of the two characters.

[00:19:53] So Will Smith and James Lasseter then approached a director, McG.

[00:19:58] Also known as Joseph McGinty Nickel.

[00:20:01] Who we talked about previously with the Charlie's Angels films.

[00:20:04] Okay.

[00:20:04] And McG was born in Michigan.

[00:20:07] And is a huge influential voice in the 1990s new metal era.

[00:20:14] Because he was someone that was making music videos at a very crucial time.

[00:20:19] He was making all the big music videos for Korn's first album.

[00:20:22] But he also worked with bands like Cypress Hill, Sugar Ray, Sublime, Smash Mouth, Everclear.

[00:20:29] And so he was working in music videos for about five, six years.

[00:20:33] And a lot of those videos became hugely influential.

[00:20:36] He did the Korn Got the Life video, for example.

[00:20:39] Yep.

[00:20:40] Yeah.

[00:20:40] And then made his debut with Charlie's Angels in 2000.

[00:20:44] Did Full Throttle.

[00:20:46] Did the football drama We Are Marshall with Matthew McConaughey.

[00:20:50] Dabbled in the spy genre, again, following Charlie's Angels with the pilot for the TV show Chuck.

[00:20:55] Oh, I didn't know he directed that.

[00:20:56] Okay.

[00:20:57] Cool.

[00:20:57] Yeah.

[00:20:58] Yeah.

[00:20:58] Kind of set the template for visually what that show would be.

[00:21:01] And then made a movie called Terminator Salvation.

[00:21:05] Which had among the best trailers I've ever seen for a movie.

[00:21:08] And was hugely underwhelming.

[00:21:10] I remember not enjoying the film.

[00:21:12] That's all I can say.

[00:21:13] I just remember that trailer set to the Nine Inch Nails song.

[00:21:16] The day the whole world went away.

[00:21:18] And being like, this is going to be incredible.

[00:21:20] I appreciate that film was trying to do something a bit different though.

[00:21:23] With the Terminator franchise.

[00:21:25] Compared to what three and we'd get like afterwards with Dark Fate and Genesis.

[00:21:29] Which just feel like retreads of two.

[00:21:31] I remember I went and saw Terminator Salvation the day I had to put my cat down.

[00:21:35] Oh, jeez.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:37] That was not my favorite day.

[00:21:39] I was like, I need a pick me up.

[00:21:40] I need to see this movie that looks absolutely incredible.

[00:21:43] Oh boy.

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:45] I don't know how you sort of ping a joke off of that one.

[00:21:48] It just doesn't feel like totally the film you should have been watching that day.

[00:21:51] No.

[00:21:52] No.

[00:21:52] But the Terminator films were never like pick me up films.

[00:21:57] Terminator 2 is a lot of fun though.

[00:21:59] It's fun but it's dark.

[00:22:01] It is.

[00:22:02] Seeing Sarah Connor get blasted to pieces by the nuke is not a laugh a minute.

[00:22:08] No, that's true.

[00:22:09] That's true.

[00:22:11] Yeah.

[00:22:13] But Salvation though I think it's probably one of the most interesting of the Terminator films.

[00:22:17] I'll defend it like that.

[00:22:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:19] Yeah.

[00:22:20] And so he rolled from Terminator Salvation which was a disappointment.

[00:22:24] It was not particularly well reviewed and it was not, it wasn't a bomb but it was an underperformer

[00:22:29] in terms of what they were hoping for from the Terminator franchise.

[00:22:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:33] And then he rolls into This Means War.

[00:22:34] I did note though, This Means War kind of marks the end of his A-list directing period

[00:22:40] because then he goes on and does movies like Three Days to Kill, the Kevin Costner action

[00:22:44] movie which was lower budget.

[00:22:46] Kevin Costner was not at the height of his career at that point.

[00:22:49] Then he just does like thrillers like The Babysitter which was mostly a streaming film

[00:22:54] and most recently did a movie I've never even heard of that came out this year apparently

[00:22:59] starring Joey King and it was a Netflix sci-fi film called The Uglies.

[00:23:04] I have never heard of this film.

[00:23:06] Me neither.

[00:23:07] Maybe if I'm young, maybe if I'm like Gen Zed, I'm like of course Joey King, of course

[00:23:11] I've seen The Uglies.

[00:23:11] But to me at the age of 44, I have no idea what this movie is.

[00:23:15] Should I know who Joey King is?

[00:23:18] Um, she is known for those movies, the streaming movies, The Kissing Booth and she's kind of

[00:23:23] like a popular star among a young audience.

[00:23:26] I will take your word for it there.

[00:23:29] I've never seen just about any of, I mean, she showed up, okay I'll give you an example.

[00:23:33] Oh, Tom Hardy connection.

[00:23:35] She played young Bane in The Dark Knight Rises.

[00:23:40] Oh, oh, right in the prison sequences, right?

[00:23:44] Yeah.

[00:23:44] Okay.

[00:23:45] Oh, sorry, not, sorry, my corrective, not Bane, young Talia.

[00:23:49] Sorry.

[00:23:50] I was going to say, why was Bane played by a girl?

[00:23:53] I had, we were heading down the Verne-Troyer route there, which is a real callback.

[00:23:58] We were.

[00:23:59] My bad.

[00:24:02] I was going to do a Bane impression, but like a feminine voice, but I just can't pull off

[00:24:05] that Bane voice.

[00:24:07] Yeah, so, sorry.

[00:24:08] Yes, she was young Talia, young Marion Cotillard.

[00:24:12] Which, of course, is connected to Allied, which we covered earlier this year.

[00:24:16] Yes, but she was like a child star who showed up in several roles, but has become a thing,

[00:24:21] like a little industry.

[00:24:23] A thing.

[00:24:23] She's become a thing.

[00:24:24] She's become a thing, kind of an industry for an audience that is about half my age,

[00:24:29] if not less, or more.

[00:24:30] It's very Cronenberg.

[00:24:32] She has morphed into a thing.

[00:24:33] She's transformed.

[00:24:36] Congratulations, Joey King.

[00:24:38] Look what you've become.

[00:24:40] Uh-huh.

[00:24:41] So, McG, when he was looking at this concept, saw it as Bond versus Bourne, and he also

[00:24:48] said in his mind he could see a movie where it was like Will Smith versus Tom Cruise.

[00:24:53] I mean, I guess I can see that.

[00:24:57] That sounds like it would have been a huge hit in the 1990s.

[00:25:01] Yeah.

[00:25:02] I would have gone to see it.

[00:25:03] I think everyone would have gone to see that movie.

[00:25:06] Yeah.

[00:25:07] Just a shame they did it in 20, or tried to do it, I guess, like 2010?

[00:25:12] Yeah.

[00:25:13] 2012.

[00:25:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:25:14] No, I know when the film came out, but this is obviously the pre-production, so this could

[00:25:17] have been years before.

[00:25:18] Yeah, sure.

[00:25:18] 2010, probably, yeah.

[00:25:20] Yeah.

[00:25:21] I still would have gone to see it then.

[00:25:23] What could have been?

[00:25:24] What could have been?

[00:25:25] What could have been?

[00:25:26] To be fair, I don't think, actually, just thinking about it for a second, I don't think

[00:25:31] Will Smith necessarily dropped the ball with this one, because he then went on to do the

[00:25:36] Gemini Man.

[00:25:37] Well, that's years later.

[00:25:39] That's like seven years later.

[00:25:40] No, I know, but he did like that, and he also did the one with his son, which wasn't

[00:25:44] like the son meant to be a clone of him or something like that?

[00:25:46] Am I recalling it correctly?

[00:25:48] I don't remember.

[00:25:49] You're talking about After Earth.

[00:25:50] Yeah.

[00:25:51] Yeah.

[00:25:52] Where he's like fighting a version of himself.

[00:25:54] I could be wrong.

[00:25:56] But yeah, okay.

[00:25:57] So I feel like there was a nugget put into Will Smith's head that stayed there for a while.

[00:26:01] Right.

[00:26:01] Yeah.

[00:26:02] And so McG said he was just unhappy with the script and so wanted some pretty significant

[00:26:07] changes.

[00:26:07] And he brought in Simon Kinberg, who we've talked about in the past.

[00:26:10] He was the writer-director of the 355.

[00:26:13] Was he?

[00:26:14] He also, his debut as a screenwriter was Triple X, The Next Level, or Triple X, State of the

[00:26:20] Union, depending on what you want to call it.

[00:26:22] Which ties back to our interview with the director of that film and Diana Hedae, Mr. Lee Tamahori.

[00:26:26] Check it out in the archives, folks.

[00:26:28] Yeah.

[00:26:29] So Simon Kinberg at this point has jumped off of State of the Union to do movies like Mr.

[00:26:33] and Mrs. Smith, X-Men, The Last Stand, Sherlock Holmes.

[00:26:37] And he rolled from Holmes right into This Means War.

[00:26:41] And so did pretty heavy revisions and would bounce off of this movie and do X-Men Days

[00:26:47] of Future Past.

[00:26:48] So Simon Kinberg, he gets some serious flack on this podcast for the movies we've covered

[00:26:55] that he has written.

[00:26:56] Or touched.

[00:26:57] Or touched.

[00:26:58] We haven't done Mr. and Mrs. Smith yet.

[00:27:00] But you can see X-Men Days of Future Past.

[00:27:04] There is some quality there.

[00:27:05] People like Sherlock Holmes.

[00:27:07] So yeah.

[00:27:08] Well, I think that's why he keeps on getting booked.

[00:27:10] Yes.

[00:27:11] He has a filmography full of hits and misses.

[00:27:15] Yes.

[00:27:15] Yes.

[00:27:16] And he's also a producer.

[00:27:17] So he's produced a lot of hit movies as well.

[00:27:20] Yes.

[00:27:20] It's just sort of also a little bit of who you know, I suppose.

[00:27:23] Totally.

[00:27:23] I remember like when Jennifer Lawrence was talking about signing on to do Dark Phoenix.

[00:27:28] She was like, I had to work with my friend Simon Kinberg.

[00:27:31] So I think he's very likable.

[00:27:33] You'd have to be.

[00:27:34] I think so.

[00:27:37] So according to McG, Tom Hardy caught his attention actually in Rock and Rolla.

[00:27:42] It was not Inception.

[00:27:44] And he said Rock and Rolla, he really wanted to work with him.

[00:27:46] And then he saw his career developing and was like, we got to get this guy.

[00:27:50] And said that he actually had to fight for him because the studio didn't get it.

[00:27:54] And McG said like, this guy's going to be a big thing and had to actually convince the studio heads to hire him.

[00:28:00] Yeah.

[00:28:00] Well, I think that's probably a coup for the film.

[00:28:03] And I imagine he was a lot cheaper than someone like Will Smith.

[00:28:06] Definitely.

[00:28:07] Yeah.

[00:28:07] And Chris Pine, McG had seen in the Martin McDonough play, The Lieutenant of Inishmore.

[00:28:12] So people might be thinking Star Trek, but that's not where McG was coming from.

[00:28:16] So I appreciate that he saw him in something else.

[00:28:22] And much as we'll get into sort of our thoughts on Chris Pine in this film, I'm glad.

[00:28:27] I never really got the impression he did a lot of stage work, actually.

[00:28:29] I will just say that.

[00:28:30] I didn't really get that impression either.

[00:28:32] So that was interesting.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:35] I've not seen that play before, though, so I can't comment on that or who he played in that.

[00:28:39] But I wonder if that's what interests him more nowadays, because I just don't see him that much.

[00:28:44] He made his directorial debut recently with The Pool Boy.

[00:28:48] I haven't seen that movie yet, but it's mostly in Film Fest at this moment.

[00:28:52] But he, I think, last showed up.

[00:28:55] Was it in the Olivia Wilde second film, Don't Worry Darling?

[00:28:59] Yeah, that and Dungeons & Dragons, Honor Among Thieves, which he was good in.

[00:29:04] He was very, he's good in all those movies, regardless of what you think of the movies.

[00:29:08] I mean, he's great in Don't Worry Darling.

[00:29:10] It's just that the movie was pretty polarizing.

[00:29:12] Yeah.

[00:29:13] I quite like that film.

[00:29:14] I kind of liked it, too.

[00:29:16] Yeah.

[00:29:17] I didn't get the sort of like, I think it was just cool to hate on it because of the

[00:29:20] whole like behind the scenes scandals that didn't actually happen anyway.

[00:29:23] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:25] So this is the best quote.

[00:29:27] Oh.

[00:29:27] This is McG on Reese Witherspoon.

[00:29:29] I'm just going to let him, I'll let his words take over here.

[00:29:32] Can you do a voice or?

[00:29:34] No.

[00:29:34] Oh.

[00:29:35] I don't know what his voice sounds like.

[00:29:38] She didn't want to make a rom-com.

[00:29:40] She's the heavyweight champ.

[00:29:41] So I said, guys look at you as wife material.

[00:29:44] They respect you and you're smart.

[00:29:46] But men don't covet you.

[00:29:49] Men don't grit their teeth and act crazy in the pursuit of you.

[00:29:52] Let's go there.

[00:29:59] Can you just read that last sentence?

[00:30:03] The last couple of sentences.

[00:30:05] Again, I just want to make sure I heard it correctly.

[00:30:08] Men don't covet you.

[00:30:09] Men don't grit their teeth and act crazy in the pursuit of you.

[00:30:13] Let's go there.

[00:30:15] I've never heard such a 2010 sentence in my life.

[00:30:19] Isn't that incredible?

[00:30:20] It's, I don't know what to say to it in many ways.

[00:30:24] It's like, it's such an of its time sentence.

[00:30:27] Like, can you imagine someone going to Reese Witherspoon now and saying,

[00:30:30] Yeah, excuse me, Miss Witherspoon.

[00:30:33] Men don't covet you enough.

[00:30:35] Right.

[00:30:36] Jazz it up, sister.

[00:30:39] And you just say, good Lord.

[00:30:41] Like, that's a horrible thing to say to someone.

[00:30:45] Men don't want to tear you to pieces enough.

[00:30:48] Like, yeah.

[00:30:49] You don't want to be like, ugh.

[00:30:52] It was the style at the time.

[00:30:54] I don't, I can't.

[00:30:56] Like, I'll forgive many of McGee's sins.

[00:30:59] Charlie's Angels Full Throttle being one of them.

[00:31:01] But, like, I'm not sure I can forgive that.

[00:31:04] That's a horrible thing to say to an actress.

[00:31:06] And a human being as well, who is probably full of, like, self-doubts and everything.

[00:31:10] And just going like, hey, you're not quite sexy enough.

[00:31:13] Let's make you sexier.

[00:31:16] Boy.

[00:31:16] Uh-huh.

[00:31:17] Yeah.

[00:31:17] And then he gave a detailed, you know, breakdown of what they did to make her look sexy and said she was really into it.

[00:31:27] Do you have that?

[00:31:28] No.

[00:31:29] I was talking about smoky eye shadow.

[00:31:30] It was quite long.

[00:31:32] I mean, there's a scene where she's in the midst of having, or in the beginning of having sex with Chris Pine in this film.

[00:31:40] Yeah.

[00:31:40] Where, like, it's entirely shot to make her look fantastic.

[00:31:45] You're talking about the lingerie shot?

[00:31:46] What?

[00:31:46] Yeah.

[00:31:47] Where she's in, like, heels and stuff.

[00:31:49] And I'm just like, this is, this is like a photo shoot.

[00:31:52] That surprised me because that's not something I've typically seen Reese Witherspoon do.

[00:31:56] So, um, I guess McG was definitely traveling down a road with her there.

[00:32:00] Wait, what was that line again?

[00:32:01] Men don't covet her.

[00:32:03] Yeah, that's right.

[00:32:03] Yeah.

[00:32:04] Do we, do we now covet Reese Witherspoon?

[00:32:07] Have we accidentally been manipulated by McG to covet Reese Witherspoon?

[00:32:12] I don't know that it worked.

[00:32:14] I feel a bit icky about this whole thing.

[00:32:17] A few other notes.

[00:32:18] The paintball scene in this movie was influenced by the TV show Spaced.

[00:32:23] McG was actually going to produce a US remake of that show.

[00:32:27] It never happened, but he was a big fan.

[00:32:30] So that's at least a little bit of where his inspiration came for that scene.

[00:32:33] There's a paintball episode.

[00:32:35] Right.

[00:32:35] Some of that episode played into Shaun of the Dead.

[00:32:38] Yeah, okay.

[00:32:38] Shots from it were kind of aped in Shaun of the Dead.

[00:32:41] Because it's basically the action episode.

[00:32:45] Right.

[00:32:46] And this movie had multiple endings.

[00:32:49] I saw two of them on YouTube.

[00:32:51] Okay.

[00:32:52] But in one of the endings, she chooses Tom Hardy.

[00:32:56] Oh.

[00:32:57] And at the end we see Chris Pine in his, you know, I don't, is it an apartment?

[00:33:03] I get the impression it's an apartment because I don't think he owns the pool.

[00:33:07] Yeah.

[00:33:08] Okay.

[00:33:09] Which is actually worse.

[00:33:11] So he's in his apartment and that flight attendant comes to his door again, the blonde flight attendant.

[00:33:18] Yeah.

[00:33:18] And says, we're going to give it a second shot.

[00:33:21] And he's like, we?

[00:33:22] And a second flight attendant shows up.

[00:33:25] Oh boy.

[00:33:26] Waka waka.

[00:33:27] And Chris Pine says, do you like dogs?

[00:33:31] And she says, I'll be your bitch.

[00:33:33] Shut up.

[00:33:35] Dead serious.

[00:33:36] Shut up.

[00:33:38] No joke.

[00:33:38] No way.

[00:33:40] Yes.

[00:33:40] It's in, you can watch it on YouTube.

[00:33:43] You, I, what?

[00:33:45] I can't figure out what's worse.

[00:33:47] Men not coveting you or like basically just standing at Chris Pine's door with a dog collar

[00:33:53] in your mouth.

[00:33:54] It's strange.

[00:33:55] The other ending is very ambiguous.

[00:33:58] You don't know what happens.

[00:34:00] It just shows Reese Witherspoon recovering after the car goes off the, you know, the road there.

[00:34:06] The bad guy dies.

[00:34:07] And she's by herself and the two men are embracing.

[00:34:11] I prefer that ending.

[00:34:12] Yeah.

[00:34:13] It's like, basically they're just recovering and like Chris Pine has kind of his arms around

[00:34:17] Tom Hardy.

[00:34:18] Yeah.

[00:34:19] I think that's a better ending.

[00:34:20] Some people prefer that ending.

[00:34:22] Apparently also there was a bachelorette scene, a bachelorette party scene that McG said was

[00:34:28] cut because it would have gotten an X rating.

[00:34:30] I have a feeling that is something to do with one of my dislikes of this film.

[00:34:37] Okay.

[00:34:38] Okay.

[00:34:38] And so this movie had a budget of 65 million, which is actually pretty mid-level.

[00:34:46] Domestically it did 54.8.

[00:34:49] So that to me is actually pretty damning because you think of what a huge star Reese Witherspoon

[00:34:54] was.

[00:34:55] And this is a packaged hit.

[00:34:58] Like it really is.

[00:34:59] Because you've got two of the big rising male actors.

[00:35:01] You've got Reese Witherspoon and it made less than its budget.

[00:35:05] And it came out on Valentine's.

[00:35:07] Yeah.

[00:35:08] And so internationally it actually did well though.

[00:35:10] It did 101.7 for a total of 156.5.

[00:35:15] So it made some money, but it was not really what you'd call a hit.

[00:35:20] That's a shame.

[00:35:50] That's a series that has that.

[00:35:52] Who's the actor that runs those?

[00:35:54] Kate Beckinsale?

[00:35:55] Yeah.

[00:35:56] But she wasn't in a couple of them.

[00:35:58] Is that with her or without her?

[00:35:59] She wasn't in the third one, which was a prequel.

[00:36:02] This was the fourth where she returned.

[00:36:04] Oh, that should have.

[00:36:05] Yeah.

[00:36:06] That's probably why it's 50 or 52.

[00:36:09] Yeah.

[00:36:09] Yeah.

[00:36:10] Okay.

[00:36:10] So the top three for the year.

[00:36:12] Number one, The Avengers.

[00:36:14] Number two, Skyfall.

[00:36:15] Number three, The Dark Knight Rises.

[00:36:17] So Tom Hardy may have had an underperformer here, but he had a big hit in The Dark Knight Rises.

[00:36:22] Big year for Tomo.

[00:36:29] Yeah.

[00:36:53] Oh, that's scathing.

[00:36:55] Oh boy.

[00:36:56] And it was for this movie.

[00:36:58] And I think it's really notable when you look at Reese Witherspoon's filmography.

[00:37:03] After this movie, she goes on to do like really acclaimed work in movies like Mud and Wild and Inherent Vice.

[00:37:10] Like clearly she saw this as a little bit of a transition point as well.

[00:37:15] I get the impression, just judging from what you said about the reaction to it from audiences, maybe she took that to heart.

[00:37:21] Yeah.

[00:37:21] Because if you look at her filmography, she does do a couple more rom-coms going forward.

[00:37:26] Like she does, I think, one called Home Again.

[00:37:28] But it's like, I don't know, a decade later or something like that.

[00:37:31] Or, you know, eight years later.

[00:37:33] It doesn't seem like following this movie, she was sticking to that kind of tried and true template she had been working in for a little while.

[00:37:41] She really shook things up.

[00:37:42] I think that turned out for the better.

[00:37:44] Yeah, I saw her a little bit in the, as an Apple TV show.

[00:37:49] It's like the Newsroom it's called or something to that effect.

[00:37:51] I can't remember what it's called.

[00:37:53] Yeah, I know.

[00:37:53] I don't watch the Today Show.

[00:37:56] I think that's it.

[00:37:57] With Jennifer Aniston to connect it back to that.

[00:38:00] And the bits I saw, she was very good in that.

[00:38:01] Right, yeah.

[00:38:02] And that's like a hit show.

[00:38:03] So she's doing a lot of work and she's still very popular.

[00:38:06] But in terms of these kind of very engineered studio rom-coms, she took a step away from these.

[00:38:13] Fair enough.

[00:38:14] That happens to the best of us.

[00:38:16] Yeah.

[00:38:16] We run something into the ground just like we're running this podcast into the ground.

[00:38:21] Exactly.

[00:38:22] Yes.

[00:38:22] Exactly.

[00:38:23] Well, before you all FTFO folks, let's get to the review.

[00:38:30] This means war.

[00:38:33] Now, folks, you might think that Chris Pine and Tom Hardy are at war with each other this week.

[00:38:38] But I think the true war that's being waged currently is the one between Cam and I and our editing software.

[00:38:47] Yes, that is right.

[00:38:49] We recorded a review of this film, This Means War.

[00:38:54] And the editing bugs won the war.

[00:38:58] And they took off with that section.

[00:39:00] And in the meantime, Scott and I have both got colds.

[00:39:03] So that's why our voices are going to sound a little different for this section.

[00:39:06] Different bugs have come in and waged war with us.

[00:39:08] And we have lost that war as well.

[00:39:10] I mean, my throat now means sore.

[00:39:14] Oh, that's good.

[00:39:15] That's really good.

[00:39:18] It's all off the cuff.

[00:39:19] I'm still firing on all cylinders despite being more nasally than usual.

[00:39:24] Yeah.

[00:39:24] Yeah.

[00:39:24] No kidding.

[00:39:25] No kidding.

[00:39:25] I'm trying to come up with another pun, but I got nothing.

[00:39:28] Well, that speaks a lot to what we have coming up ahead in the rest of this review.

[00:39:34] Cam has nothing for us.

[00:39:35] I pine for feeling good again.

[00:39:38] We all do.

[00:39:39] We all do in general, to be fair.

[00:39:41] As long as this is no like XXX2 state of the Flunian, that was a real low point for me.

[00:39:47] I don't think anyone has ever been sicker on a podcast than you were on that episode.

[00:39:51] Oh, man.

[00:39:53] I had COVID, I think, looking back.

[00:39:56] Yeah.

[00:39:56] You sounded horrible.

[00:39:57] I remember editing that episode and I cut out all of the coughing, but there was so much coughing.

[00:40:04] And by the end of editing that episode, I felt sick.

[00:40:09] You got COVID through digital editing.

[00:40:12] Oh, it was wild.

[00:40:12] Well, there you go.

[00:40:14] There you go.

[00:40:14] But let's get back on track.

[00:40:16] Let's get this episode saved.

[00:40:18] We're coming in at the last minute.

[00:40:19] We're recording this literally days before it comes out, which is not something that we do.

[00:40:23] So we have to go back through our notes and think about This Means War once again.

[00:40:27] So let's talk about the film itself.

[00:40:30] What do we think about it in the year 2024?

[00:40:32] Cam, why don't you take it away?

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] Yeah.

[00:40:34] So this movie is really interesting to go back to because a movie like this just really

[00:40:38] doesn't get made anymore.

[00:40:39] No.

[00:40:40] Where it's these movies sold on movie stars and really just kind of based on a kind of

[00:40:45] high concept romantic comedy.

[00:40:47] And this one, I really enjoyed seeing a younger kind of early model Tom Hardy as your lead.

[00:40:55] Which you don't get now.

[00:40:56] He is not playing these roles anymore.

[00:40:58] And maybe there's a reason.

[00:40:59] Like this movie didn't perform very well.

[00:41:01] I don't know that he was the most comfortable doing this type of work because it's not like

[00:41:05] he did this, you know, went and did some other things and then said, hey, I'm going

[00:41:08] to do another rom-com.

[00:41:09] Why not?

[00:41:10] He's gone weird.

[00:41:11] Even when he does like a big budget kind of mainstream movie like Venom, he's being really

[00:41:17] weird in that movie.

[00:41:18] Well, even they sort of dissipate into themselves eventually.

[00:41:21] Yeah.

[00:41:22] It feels like, you know, all of these actors kind of found different directions to go.

[00:41:28] And so this is a really interesting kind of time capsule movie.

[00:41:31] And in terms of like star chemistry and just sort of like a general energy vibe, there's

[00:41:39] something like nostalgic about going back to this time period because these movies don't

[00:41:42] exist anymore.

[00:41:43] And so in that respect, I found the movie kind of cute, I would say.

[00:41:48] Like there was parts where I'd go, okay, like that's kind of a fun setup.

[00:41:51] And it goes like big with it.

[00:41:53] McG has zero subtlety in his arsenal.

[00:41:58] And he knows how to make movies that are flashy and kind of carry you along for 90

[00:42:03] minutes.

[00:42:04] And when they're over, you kind of go, what did I just watch?

[00:42:06] I had, you know, kind of enjoyed the experience, but what did I just watch?

[00:42:10] I think for me though, this one doesn't work quite as well as Charlie's Angels because some

[00:42:16] of the romantic comedy elements just didn't click as well with me watching This Means

[00:42:20] War.

[00:42:22] This seemed to me like more of a love story between the two guys.

[00:42:26] And it was more effective.

[00:42:27] I think it was pairing them up off as buddies.

[00:42:30] Sure.

[00:42:30] Yeah.

[00:42:30] Then when it was actually pursuing the romantic relationship between Reese Witherspoon and

[00:42:35] the two guys.

[00:42:37] That was where to me, I just didn't connect to it as well.

[00:42:40] And I didn't find it as funny.

[00:42:42] I think it was more successful when it was having the two of them just bounce off each

[00:42:46] other than when they were doing the kinds of things you would do in a 2012 rom-com, like

[00:42:51] cyber stalking and snooping on her.

[00:42:53] Like that stuff didn't really work for me.

[00:42:54] And like the splitting up the dates at the same time and all that sort of stuff.

[00:42:58] Like, yeah, that does feel very much of its time.

[00:43:00] And that's not necessarily an indictment on the film.

[00:43:04] It came out that year.

[00:43:05] It's not like it's a 2024 film pretending to be a 2012 film.

[00:43:10] That's when it came out.

[00:43:11] So we'll judge it by that standard.

[00:43:14] I do wholeheartedly agree with your point.

[00:43:16] So I mean, for me, I think this film is best when it's Chris and Tom.

[00:43:22] And that's a real shame because you've got Reese Witherspoon.

[00:43:26] And I think a lot of it is probably just plate spinning in the sense of like trying to keep

[00:43:30] everyone's momentum going throughout.

[00:43:34] And if you try to spin three plates, it's going to get tough.

[00:43:37] Working on two or one is a lot easier.

[00:43:40] And so one of them is going to get sacrificed.

[00:43:42] And I think Reese Witherspoon does get the short end of the three of them.

[00:43:46] Yeah, I would say so.

[00:43:48] And I think also like McG, as I said, like he shoots movies that are very flashy.

[00:43:53] And there's not a lot of depth to what he does.

[00:43:57] It tends to be kind of surface level flash.

[00:43:59] And I think you can, you know, lob that criticism at Terminator Salvation, a movie that looks

[00:44:03] great, but it's pretty hollow.

[00:44:05] Yeah.

[00:44:06] And this movie, for that reason, to me, it was like, this is a movie populated by movie

[00:44:11] stars where everyone in the movie looks like a model.

[00:44:14] Uh-huh.

[00:44:14] And everything looks really beautiful.

[00:44:18] And it doesn't feel like when you get to kind of the comedic aspects as much or the rom-com

[00:44:24] aspects, he has the subtlety that you necessarily want.

[00:44:29] Like a lot of the stuff feels very like kind of slam bang in setting things up.

[00:44:33] Whereas I feel like you want a little bit of wit.

[00:44:36] And wit doesn't really operate when you are, you know, working with a sledgehammer, as

[00:44:41] he does.

[00:44:41] And as he can often bring to movies that are big, kind of fun, flashy parties.

[00:44:47] But then that sort of tracks with McG, he gets his start in music video, which is three,

[00:44:52] four minutes.

[00:44:52] You have to get your entire message across in that short space of time.

[00:44:56] Subtlety is not the aim of the game.

[00:44:58] No.

[00:44:59] And, you know, when you look at the original Charlie's Angels, you see how he does it

[00:45:02] really well.

[00:45:03] So like that movie is fun.

[00:45:05] I love that first Charlie's Angels film.

[00:45:06] Whereas the second one, he goes too far.

[00:45:08] Yeah.

[00:45:09] And I wonder like this movie with maybe a director who was just a little more nuanced, if it

[00:45:15] would have worked better in terms of the Reese Witherspoon material.

[00:45:18] Because that to me was where this movie felt a little too artificial.

[00:45:24] Sure.

[00:45:24] Yeah, no, I completely on board with you there.

[00:45:27] I will just add in my two cents on the overall thoughts of the film.

[00:45:30] I mean, for me, this is still remains an enjoyable romp.

[00:45:35] You know, it's not without its questionable elements.

[00:45:40] I think if we're looking at for a modern lens, we can raise a few eyebrows.

[00:45:44] But ultimately, you know, I remember the chemistry between the two leads and that chemistry is

[00:45:50] still there when I go back and revisit this film.

[00:45:51] And that's what takes me through the hour 45 is Chris and Tom.

[00:45:57] And, you know, we're seeing two bona fide film stars at the beginnings of their ascendancy,

[00:46:04] perhaps.

[00:46:05] And I mean, they haven't teamed up again.

[00:46:08] I don't know what it was like to them, if they got on or not.

[00:46:11] I don't know anything about that sort of stuff.

[00:46:13] But, you know, they clearly knew how to work it as if they were friends.

[00:46:17] And I wanted to spend time with them.

[00:46:19] Yeah, it's funny because you see a lot of reviews where people say, like, that's the real love story.

[00:46:24] Like, that's what really clicks in this movie is the two of them.

[00:46:28] And I don't know that the movie pays that off in a satisfying way by the end.

[00:46:32] Like, there's a lot of deleted footage from this movie.

[00:46:36] And we talked about some of the other endings in the behind the scenes stuff.

[00:46:40] But the movie really is at a certain point focused on the Chris Pine and Reese Witherspoon relationship.

[00:46:46] Like, that's kind of the culmination of the story is them, you know, embracing after the car goes off the road.

[00:46:53] And I mean, this is the whole reason I'm going to be recommending this film to be disavowed is because the Brits didn't win the girl in the end.

[00:46:59] I mean, I am crushed.

[00:47:01] It was a true story.

[00:47:03] Oh.

[00:47:06] Yeah.

[00:47:06] Okay.

[00:47:07] It's like you want to see more of a resolution about the two of them coming together because, like, they've been the ones that have been at war.

[00:47:15] Right?

[00:47:15] And so.

[00:47:16] Yeah, that's what the titular this means war is.

[00:47:19] It's their war.

[00:47:20] Yeah.

[00:47:21] And so, like, them being kind of likable in the early sections is what you want to see kind of more of a return to and a focus on.

[00:47:28] Whereas, like, as I said, like, the Reese Witherspoon stuff, it often feels like a different movie.

[00:47:34] I think another thing is, as well, it's about a power dynamic of, like, movie stars.

[00:47:39] Like, if you repurpose this, you keep Reese Witherspoon in the role and you have two lesser actors.

[00:47:46] You know, not like putting us in the film, like, not having bad actors in the film, but just people who don't have star power or wattage, like Tom Hardy and Chris Pine.

[00:47:55] I could see a film where Reese Witherspoon is the one you want to spend your time with because they are just two, like, guys fighting over her that we don't really care about.

[00:48:06] But because of the wattage, I'll use my own word again, of Tom and Chris, your eye is drawn more towards them and not the love story that the film is purporting to be about.

[00:48:17] I will say, though, in the defense of the movie in 2024, having two megastars opposite her actually brings a little more suspense.

[00:48:31] I don't know if that's the right word, but a little more of a back and forth as to who shall pick.

[00:48:36] I wasn't on the edge of my seat, but...

[00:48:39] It's a real Hitchcock bum under the table.

[00:48:41] Like, who will Reese Witherspoon pick?

[00:48:44] I couldn't... I had to stand the whole time I was watching the movie.

[00:48:47] I wasn't relaxed at all.

[00:48:48] Gripping your chair, like, you just, like, put holes in it with your fingers.

[00:48:51] You're just holding onto it so hard.

[00:48:53] I was chewing, like, chips so quickly that I started biting my fingers.

[00:48:58] You got no nails left.

[00:48:59] You just chewed through them.

[00:49:00] I had to call the ER.

[00:49:02] But, like, if you were to make this movie...

[00:49:05] Or, you know what? Here's a movie.

[00:49:07] If you go back to, like, the 90s...

[00:49:09] Ah, my grace period.

[00:49:10] Hmm.

[00:49:12] Something like, um, Sleepless in Seattle.

[00:49:15] Sure.

[00:49:15] You have Meg Ryan, who's dating Bill Pullman, but Tom Hanks comes around.

[00:49:20] There is no question in your mind she is going to take off and wind up with Tom Hanks.

[00:49:27] Whereas in this movie, you know, I think at that time period you would have known it's Chris Pine.

[00:49:33] Because Star Trek is kind of a bigger mainstream deal.

[00:49:35] And he is being presented as more of a star.

[00:49:37] But when you watch it in 2024, you're like, well, hold on.

[00:49:42] I'm not exactly sure who she'll pick because I would argue that Tom Hardy has more of a case.

[00:49:49] I mean, I think Tom Hardy's character has more of a case, too.

[00:49:52] But that, I mean, obviously he's a namesake of mine.

[00:49:55] It's in the family.

[00:49:57] But I feel like Chris Pine's character does grow through the film.

[00:50:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:50:05] Uh, but I feel like he's having to change to meet her standards.

[00:50:10] Whereas Tom Hardy already seems to be at what she wants.

[00:50:13] Well, I feel like, okay, there's a lot of artifice going on in terms of the evolution of Chris Pine in this movie.

[00:50:19] Who's like the, uh, you know, the bad boy who becomes good, you know, very short period of time.

[00:50:27] And really only a short...

[00:50:28] Something we both resonate with fully, obviously.

[00:50:30] It's only a short number of dates, really, before he comes around.

[00:50:33] Talking about a 10-year-old film on a podcast with the bad boys.

[00:50:38] Yeah, the bad boys of podcasting.

[00:50:40] Yeah.

[00:50:40] But, like, Tom Hardy, you know, he's a single father.

[00:50:44] He wants sort of a, uh, you know, I would say kind of a quiet home life.

[00:50:50] Um, is he even a good match for Reese Witherspoon in this?

[00:50:53] Tom Hardy?

[00:50:54] Yeah.

[00:50:55] I think so.

[00:50:56] Is he?

[00:50:57] Yeah.

[00:50:58] I'm not sure.

[00:51:00] I'm, like, thinking it over now, and I wonder if, like, Chris Pine is the better match.

[00:51:03] Of course you are.

[00:51:03] You're North American.

[00:51:04] Of course you're, like, red, white, and blue-ing it over there for Chris Pine.

[00:51:09] Well, I don't know.

[00:51:10] She seems, like, uh, a little more, like, of the city folk, if you will.

[00:51:16] Like, wants to be out and about.

[00:51:18] She's at the video store, uh, you know, looking at the classic movies.

[00:51:21] I don't know, like, Tom Hardy presents something that's a lot more simple.

[00:51:26] And I wonder if she's a little more outside the norm.

[00:51:29] A little more eccentric in some ways.

[00:51:31] And also, you see her job.

[00:51:32] It's this glamorous exec who's doing some sort of consumer reporting thing that I don't understand.

[00:51:37] It's a real Billy Joel uptown girl thing going on here, you know.

[00:51:41] She's been living in a high-class world.

[00:51:43] Well, she's, like, a modern woman who has this French...

[00:51:47] A modern woman.

[00:51:48] What a statement.

[00:51:50] In 2012.

[00:51:51] She's, like, one of them newfangled modern women.

[00:51:55] Ah, damn, I hate them.

[00:51:56] She's hanging out with Chelsea Handler and, like, dating two men.

[00:52:00] Like, she's someone who's open to living in the now.

[00:52:03] Whereas I feel like Tom Hardy's character is a little more, like, looking for something traditional.

[00:52:07] I've just got Billy Joel in my head now.

[00:52:09] That's all I can think about.

[00:52:11] Well, it's a good song.

[00:52:13] I get your point.

[00:52:14] I do totally get your point.

[00:52:15] I just think, um...

[00:52:18] People...

[00:52:18] It's the whole moth to the flame thing, isn't it?

[00:52:21] Like, people are attracted to excitement.

[00:52:25] Mm.

[00:52:25] And that is fun.

[00:52:28] Are they?

[00:52:29] I'm not.

[00:52:30] Well, that's the thing.

[00:52:31] Like, in this equation, in my relationship currently, I'm definitely more of a Tom Hardy than a Chris Pine.

[00:52:37] Sure.

[00:52:38] Although I'm actually more of a Reese Witherspoon.

[00:52:40] I often dance around my house in my underwear.

[00:52:42] Which was also a thing in Charlie's Angels.

[00:52:46] Calling it back, McG.

[00:52:48] Well, he's the director, I guess.

[00:52:50] Is that a thing that he...

[00:52:51] Was that his idea?

[00:52:52] Yeah.

[00:52:53] What, likes women in their underwear?

[00:52:55] Yeah, I think he probably does.

[00:52:56] Like dancing in their underwear scenes?

[00:52:59] I mean, we'll have to ask Tim.

[00:53:01] We're talking to Timothy Dowling to screenwrite this film later this week.

[00:53:04] If we can take that question to him, we will.

[00:53:06] Uh, yeah, okay.

[00:53:07] I mean...

[00:53:07] I can't answer your question.

[00:53:09] That's the only way I can answer it.

[00:53:10] It's like, well, we'll find out.

[00:53:11] Now it's like, is that a director stamp there?

[00:53:14] He didn't do that in Terminator Salvation, that's for sure.

[00:53:17] Yeah, can you imagine Christian Bale doing a wiggle?

[00:53:20] Judging from the recordings of that set?

[00:53:22] No.

[00:53:25] He's wiggling around.

[00:53:26] You're in my eye line!

[00:53:29] That's what they were shooting at the time when that happened.

[00:53:32] That's why it's cut.

[00:53:33] These pads are too tight!

[00:53:36] What song is he dancing to in Terminator Salvation?

[00:53:40] Is it like Joddy Cash Hurt or something like that?

[00:53:43] Like, he's really downbeat.

[00:53:45] It's gotta be Mr. Roboto.

[00:53:47] Oh, you wanna make it funky?

[00:53:49] Yeah, Mr. Roboto, Terminator.

[00:53:51] Come on.

[00:53:52] No, I...

[00:53:53] Thanks, Cam.

[00:53:53] I got the pun.

[00:53:55] Let me explain the joke further.

[00:53:56] It wasn't that far of a leap.

[00:53:58] Jesus.

[00:53:59] Hey, Scott.

[00:54:00] Mr. Roboto, do you get it?

[00:54:02] Do you?

[00:54:03] No, I got it, thanks.

[00:54:04] I just think, like, it doesn't totally work with the film.

[00:54:07] But I guess neither does Christian Bale dancing around in his underwear.

[00:54:10] True.

[00:54:10] How have we got here?

[00:54:11] I don't know.

[00:54:12] I don't know.

[00:54:12] It's the flu talking.

[00:54:14] It is.

[00:54:14] It must be.

[00:54:15] It must be.

[00:54:16] But let's move us over to the like section.

[00:54:18] I've got plenty to discuss, but why don't you lead us off with the like, Cam?

[00:54:22] Yeah, it's like I kind of said earlier up front.

[00:54:24] It's like, McG, there's issues I have with his direction.

[00:54:28] I don't know that he's a great comedy director.

[00:54:31] I don't know that I've seen enough evidence of that, really.

[00:54:34] Also, spy comedies have proven over the last five years to be very tough to pull off.

[00:54:40] And I can't quite figure out why.

[00:54:42] I would love to know the answer to that because we've seen so many.

[00:54:45] And it's not like these are written by writers who aren't, you know, up to the job or have impressive credentials.

[00:54:51] It just seems like it's a very tough kind of blend of genres to pull off.

[00:54:56] Well, it often ends up in a situation where you have like good chemistry between two leads or whatever and some good comedy.

[00:55:04] And then the plot has to take over.

[00:55:06] Yeah.

[00:55:07] No, that's true.

[00:55:07] Like, like, I mean, I was a good point to Ishtar, but that's a mistake from the start.

[00:55:12] But like spies like us, we'll go back to that.

[00:55:15] A lot of like those two goofing around in the CIA at the start is really quite fun.

[00:55:20] But when they're walking around in the snow trying to find a missile and stuff, it just it loses a lot of its comedy.

[00:55:26] Yeah, no, totally.

[00:55:28] But as much as I can be critical of some of that aspect of his direction, one of the things he does really well is he makes a genuinely great looking movie.

[00:55:37] Yeah.

[00:55:37] This movie was shot in Vancouver.

[00:55:40] I know what Vancouver looks like.

[00:55:42] Vancouver does not look like what is in this movie.

[00:55:44] Like he made it look like beautiful and sunny like L.A.

[00:55:48] I'm not exactly sure how he did that when it comes to action.

[00:55:54] You know, like there's some spy plot stuff that didn't quite click with me.

[00:55:57] But like in terms of action scenes that have momentum to them, he's very capable of that.

[00:56:03] You look at that highway chase at the end of the film or the start of the film in Hong Kong when they go after Till Schweiger's character.

[00:56:10] Like this is well shot action, whether it is fisticuffs kind of stuff or shooting or explosions.

[00:56:17] Like he genuinely can deliver on that.

[00:56:19] And this is a time period where movies have kind of spiraled into that post taken shaky cam trend.

[00:56:26] Sure.

[00:56:26] And a lot of directors are just using that as a go-to because it's in some ways easier to do.

[00:56:31] They don't even have to be that good at action to just cut it to pieces.

[00:56:35] And I was genuinely like impressed with McG's chops.

[00:56:39] I mean, I shouldn't be given that he showed very strong skills at that in Charlie's Angels and Terminator Salvation.

[00:56:45] But here again, I was reminded of it because if ever there was a movie where you could kind of phone in the action potentially,

[00:56:52] it's a movie like this where you'd put more of your attention on the stars and the romance and the comedy than the action.

[00:56:58] But he still delivered on the action.

[00:57:00] Well, I have to completely agree with you on that one because, you know, as we mentioned,

[00:57:06] this section that we're inserting into the podcast in the middle is what we'd lost.

[00:57:11] And we're coming back to this about two months after we did the original recording.

[00:57:14] Yeah.

[00:57:15] But I still remember those opening and closing action sequences.

[00:57:19] Yeah.

[00:57:20] Like they have left an impression in my mind enough that I remember them.

[00:57:23] And I think they're pretty good, pretty well put together.

[00:57:28] And, you know, I don't think that chase sequence in the highway is actually Vancouver.

[00:57:35] No, I don't think that is, no.

[00:57:36] That must be L.A.

[00:57:38] Yeah.

[00:57:38] It looks like L.A.

[00:57:39] Yeah, it would be.

[00:57:41] But that looks good too.

[00:57:44] And I'm sure we'll talk a bit more about the action stuff with Tim later this week.

[00:57:47] But even like a sequence that's not necessarily action-action, the paintball battle in this movie where Tom Hardy takes Reese Witherspoon paintballing.

[00:57:56] That scene is completely absurd.

[00:57:59] Yeah.

[00:57:59] As someone who has paintballed a lot in his life.

[00:58:03] But he brings gusto to it.

[00:58:05] It looks fantastic.

[00:58:07] It's overblown in a hilarious way.

[00:58:10] Because let's just say if Tom Hardy were to behave like that on any sort of paintball range, he would be kicked out like in seconds.

[00:58:18] Those marshals would be on him like flies.

[00:58:20] The whistles would be going off immediately once he's like walking on there without a proper helmet.

[00:58:26] Oi!

[00:58:27] Oi, mate!

[00:58:28] Well, it's a classic like we have a movie star, so we have to like keep their face revealed to the audience.

[00:58:33] So he's got goggles and Reese Witherspoon.

[00:58:35] No, I don't think he has anything.

[00:58:36] I think Reese Witherspoon has goggles.

[00:58:38] I don't think he has anything.

[00:58:39] Yeah, she has goggles.

[00:58:41] Which is like, that's a rule number one is everyone has to wear a face covering of some sort.

[00:58:45] Yes, and also paintball grenades don't work quite the same way as in this movie.

[00:58:50] I can say that for sure.

[00:58:52] No, but on the paintball side of things, I like that this is now a trilogy of paintball spy films alongside Gotcha and The Living Daylights.

[00:59:01] Very true.

[00:59:02] We'll see if there's a fourth along the way.

[00:59:04] But like a sequence like that, it looks great.

[00:59:09] Like you give him an assignment like that and he doesn't half-ass it.

[00:59:13] And I've seen so many comedies that would.

[00:59:16] The comedies may deliver on the laughs, but they'll kind of take a lesser approach to the visual storytelling and this movie doesn't.

[00:59:27] Well, oftentimes you've got a director that's more for comedy than action.

[00:59:31] Yes.

[00:59:31] Those spy comedies.

[00:59:32] Yeah.

[00:59:32] So, I mean, my main like, I wanted to bring up something we've already spoken about, which is the chemistry between the two.

[00:59:38] So, I'll just add, it is the thing that stuck with my mind when I first saw the film years and years and years ago.

[00:59:47] I was glad to see that it was still as powerful going back to it now.

[00:59:50] They have a great chemistry on screen.

[00:59:53] Not as good as us.

[00:59:55] No, but, you know, that is a rarity.

[00:59:57] Yeah.

[00:59:58] I mean, lightning only strikes once.

[01:00:01] That's not true.

[01:00:02] Lightning strikes actually quite a lot.

[01:00:03] I was going to say, lightning strikes all the time, actually.

[01:00:07] But, yeah.

[01:00:08] I mean, there goes my metaphor.

[01:00:10] It's a very poor metaphor.

[01:00:12] It is.

[01:00:12] Maybe we have poor chemistry.

[01:00:17] One thing I do want to credit this film for is I think it also is a pretty good sort of reach across the aisle.

[01:00:25] And I don't mean the political aisle.

[01:00:26] We stay away from those sorts of conversations.

[01:00:28] No, Scott.

[01:00:29] Time to dive in deep.

[01:00:30] How does this represent the Republican Party?

[01:00:36] Check, please.

[01:00:38] Exactly.

[01:00:39] Yeah.

[01:00:40] No.

[01:00:40] But what I mean is, you know, like to people like you or I, we see, oh, like saying you or I were making this podcast back in 2011, let's say.

[01:00:49] Right.

[01:00:50] I mean, we would be much higher up in the rankings if that were the case, I'm sure.

[01:00:54] And we'd probably be finished by now.

[01:00:57] Maybe.

[01:00:58] But I think we would be anticipating this film.

[01:01:02] It's a spy movie and we like the cast.

[01:01:04] But, you know, we would have both seen Star Trek 2009.

[01:01:08] We would have probably seen some of the bits that Tom Hardy has done.

[01:01:11] Obviously, Reese Witherspoon, we're very aware of.

[01:01:13] So we were, tickets were sold.

[01:01:16] You know, like that we would be there opening weekend.

[01:01:19] But you put those three people on a poster.

[01:01:23] This is a perfect date movie.

[01:01:25] Hmm.

[01:01:27] I mean, you know, we've spoken about some way that the content doesn't age as well.

[01:01:31] But I think like this is a good one that you can just sit down and watch as a couple.

[01:01:36] Like I know this was originally supposed to come out Valentine's.

[01:01:40] We mentioned that earlier.

[01:01:41] Yeah.

[01:01:42] Yeah.

[01:01:43] But yeah, I think there is an element to this.

[01:01:46] There are elements that work for everyone.

[01:01:47] I mean, it was a tough sell in theaters.

[01:01:50] It didn't do particularly great.

[01:01:52] And it may have been because it wasn't enough of an action movie for action fans and enough of a romance for people that want a romantic comedy.

[01:02:00] Sure.

[01:02:01] But it also feels like the kind of movie that would play much better at home.

[01:02:05] Or like DVD.

[01:02:05] DVD.

[01:02:06] I know this is sort of towards the end of the DVD boom.

[01:02:09] But it's like you wouldn't have the investment of we need to, you know, buy tickets, go out, see it in a theater.

[01:02:19] Like that obviously didn't click.

[01:02:20] But when it's at home, people are more likely to roll the dice.

[01:02:23] And I can imagine that it was quite popular in that regard.

[01:02:25] Especially with just like the star element.

[01:02:28] Yeah.

[01:02:28] Which like nowadays we don't really have stars.

[01:02:31] You know, they'll say, oh, you know, Chris Hemsworth, he's a big star.

[01:02:33] It's like, well, he doesn't really feature in hit movies.

[01:02:38] Well, he did that one that like just disappeared very quickly.

[01:02:41] El Royale or whatever it was.

[01:02:43] Like no one went to see that.

[01:02:44] Which was great.

[01:02:45] It was really good.

[01:02:46] But no one wanted to see it.

[01:02:48] And that's happened with a number of his movies.

[01:02:50] And it's like you do have the odd star like Leonardo DiCaprio.

[01:02:54] Yeah.

[01:02:54] Or, you know, Will Smith that will bring in an audience.

[01:02:57] Well.

[01:02:57] But they're few and far between.

[01:02:59] Leo certainly.

[01:03:01] I think Will's star is a questionable size nowadays.

[01:03:05] I don't know.

[01:03:05] That last bad boys did really well.

[01:03:07] I did it.

[01:03:08] Okay.

[01:03:09] Yep.

[01:03:09] Fair enough.

[01:03:11] But yeah.

[01:03:12] And I think I wonder, I don't know where this is sitting on streaming currently.

[01:03:16] I don't wonder if this one still does quite well.

[01:03:18] I think 90 minutes is also a very digestible runtime.

[01:03:21] And that is actually another like because you and I have watched a lot of movies that overstay their welcome.

[01:03:29] And 90 minutes is a welcome relief.

[01:03:32] And there is one we are going to be reviewing, I think, next week.

[01:03:35] You're not going to be able to figure out what it is.

[01:03:37] Based on the order of, you know, the release of these episodes.

[01:03:42] But it's a comedy.

[01:03:44] It's almost two hours.

[01:03:46] And I'm not looking forward to it.

[01:03:48] Well, I eagerly await to anticipate what trash you have lined up for me, Cam.

[01:03:54] Well, exactly.

[01:03:54] Yes, yes.

[01:03:55] Yeah.

[01:03:56] Which this isn't.

[01:03:57] And I think for the final like I'll throw in is it's good to see that the CIA has decided that the Americans can't quite do it.

[01:04:08] So they're starting to hire Brits now as well.

[01:04:10] Yeah.

[01:04:10] What would be the purpose for that?

[01:04:12] Is that a thing that they would ever do?

[01:04:14] I have to imagine.

[01:04:15] Well, yeah, I imagine there are British people and other nationalities working for the CIA.

[01:04:19] That only makes sense because you'd need people with specialist skills.

[01:04:22] Sure.

[01:04:23] But with Britain, I get the impression that Tom Hardy's character was raised in America.

[01:04:30] Okay.

[01:04:31] Because he's sort of part of Chris Pine's family.

[01:04:34] Yeah.

[01:04:35] Well, I mean, I guess it's kind of the reverse of Sandra Oh being with MI6 in Killing Eve.

[01:04:44] Yeah, very good point.

[01:04:46] And Patreon plug, by the way, folks.

[01:04:50] That's right.

[01:04:51] Killing Eve Season 1 review is available on patreon.com slash spyharts right now.

[01:04:56] Go and listen to it.

[01:04:57] It's Christmas.

[01:04:58] Treat yourself.

[01:04:59] Or was it MI5 she was with?

[01:05:01] Either way.

[01:05:02] I always get it mixed up.

[01:05:03] Correct us, but correct us over on patreon.com slash spyharts.

[01:05:07] Let us know there if we got it wrong.

[01:05:09] Right.

[01:05:09] But you have to sign up to tell us.

[01:05:10] That's the rule.

[01:05:11] Wait, Scott, do you hear something?

[01:05:14] We interrupt this program to bring you a special report.

[01:05:17] Red Alert Spyharts, we are shaking things up over on the Patreon page.

[01:05:23] That's right.

[01:05:24] We are launching an exclusive new show where we tackle the exploits of the small screen's

[01:05:28] greatest secret agents like Jack Bauer, George Smiley, and beyond.

[01:05:33] And don't forget every month you also get two Agents in the Field episodes where we decode

[01:05:40] the adventures of your favorite spy actors in their biggest non-spy movies.

[01:05:46] But, Cam, tell the people what we have coming up next.

[01:05:49] Well, since this is apparently Tom Hardy week on Spyharts, we are going to look at his 2015

[01:05:56] biopic film, Legend, where he plays notorious English gangsters, the Cray Twins.

[01:06:02] And we will answer the fundamental question, are two Tom Hardys better than one?

[01:06:06] So don't get left out in the cold.

[01:06:09] Help, support your favorite spy movie podcast and join the circus at patreon.com slash spyharts.

[01:06:16] But before this message self-destructs, let's get back to the spy jinx.

[01:06:23] Well, Cam, for all things, there must be a downside.

[01:06:26] Let's talk about dislikes.

[01:06:28] We have some things to talk about, I'm sure.

[01:06:30] Why don't you lead us off?

[01:06:31] Yeah, I think for my dislike, it's sort of that the romantic comedy elements just don't

[01:06:36] really hold up very well.

[01:06:38] Sure.

[01:06:39] And I think it's very different in 2012 or probably, I don't know.

[01:06:43] I have to hop in a time machine to go back.

[01:06:45] But when you have the Reese Witherspoon character dating the two guys, that's not particularly

[01:06:52] abnormal in 2024.

[01:06:54] It's treated as like something that is like, whoa, can you believe this?

[01:06:58] You know, Chelsea Handler's like, no, no, go for it.

[01:07:00] Go for it.

[01:07:01] Yeah.

[01:07:02] And then you have the two guys, right?

[01:07:04] And what they're doing.

[01:07:05] And they're obviously at war with each other, but they're also doing a lot of things like

[01:07:09] cyber-stalking her.

[01:07:10] They are running surveillance on her house 24-7.

[01:07:14] There's a lot of manipulation that is crossing lines that now is a little uncomfortable.

[01:07:22] And I feel like the movie is almost saying that that's kind of acceptable because of

[01:07:26] kind of what she's doing.

[01:07:29] And I'm not exactly sure if that's what the movie's trying to say, but it kind of comes

[01:07:33] across that way sometimes as kind of a defense as to what they're doing.

[01:07:38] And again, that's kind of like a different way of thinking.

[01:07:41] A decade plus passed.

[01:07:42] And while the gender norms and dating norms, I mean, heck, look at the approach to online

[01:07:48] dating in this film, change decade to decade.

[01:07:51] Here they felt a little more glaring than some better examples I can think of.

[01:07:55] Yeah.

[01:07:56] I mean, my reply to you is twofold.

[01:07:59] Firstly, I'm doing all those things to you right now.

[01:08:02] True.

[01:08:03] True.

[01:08:03] True.

[01:08:04] And I can only assume you're doing them to me.

[01:08:06] You have been watching videos of me dance around my apartment in my underwear for like

[01:08:10] months.

[01:08:11] And that's just the ones you send me.

[01:08:13] And it's always the same song.

[01:08:15] And the same underwear.

[01:08:18] Mr. Roboto.

[01:08:19] Do your laundry, man.

[01:08:21] Like, what's wrong with you?

[01:08:23] And the other thing is like, it's not that this trope's actually gone away.

[01:08:28] You just look at Ghosted.

[01:08:30] Came out last year.

[01:08:31] And the entire concept of that is Chris Evans falls for someone, cyber stalks her across

[01:08:38] the planet, and finds out that she's a spy and gets pulled into a spy adventure.

[01:08:43] It's not like that's gone away.

[01:08:44] I mean, you were far kinder to Ghosted than I was.

[01:08:47] It was terrible.

[01:08:49] I think I'm a little bit of McG when it comes to Ana de Armas.

[01:08:56] Right.

[01:08:56] Okay.

[01:08:57] You know?

[01:09:00] Everyone's got a tight.

[01:09:02] Sure.

[01:09:02] But they also put Ana de Armas in the power position that entire film.

[01:09:06] Yeah.

[01:09:06] So there is that sort of flip on the concept.

[01:09:10] So Reese Witherspoon would have the agency in the version of this film.

[01:09:13] Like, she's clueless throughout this movie.

[01:09:15] And ultimately, when it's revealed, they have the big fist fight in the restaurant.

[01:09:21] And they get off pretty scot-free with her.

[01:09:23] Yeah.

[01:09:24] I mean, I don't know.

[01:09:28] So I think a modern reaction would be she would just dump both of them.

[01:09:33] Yeah.

[01:09:34] Or a sane reaction, yeah.

[01:09:36] Well, you know.

[01:09:37] Yeah.

[01:09:37] I think you can overlook a lot of things early doors.

[01:09:41] And also, when you look like Chris Pine or Tom Hardy, I think a lot of people would be...

[01:09:44] Or Reese Witherspoon.

[01:09:45] I think a lot of people would be like, oh, hold on now.

[01:09:49] She murdered my parents.

[01:09:51] But she looks like that.

[01:09:52] I don't really know.

[01:09:53] Perhaps I can covet her as she wanted me to.

[01:09:59] I think your criticism is perfectly valid.

[01:10:02] And I think that if someone is doing a recent review of this film, you wouldn't be the only person to say it.

[01:10:07] I just found like it was also impossible for me to emotionally connect to that storyline.

[01:10:12] Because they're doing those things.

[01:10:14] Yeah.

[01:10:14] And it's just like it wasn't...

[01:10:16] It just wasn't like making me laugh enough to kind of override it.

[01:10:21] And so when it gets to the end, I don't have that feeling of like they're together.

[01:10:26] Like a lot of rom-coms, they're built on artificial situations.

[01:10:30] Yeah.

[01:10:31] But if you really buy into it over the course...

[01:10:34] Like the movie really pulls you into it.

[01:10:36] At the end, you feel something when that couple gets together.

[01:10:39] Even if it's entirely ridiculous that this would ever actually happen.

[01:10:43] Then you buy into it.

[01:10:45] And I just didn't buy into this by the end at all.

[01:10:47] Well, I think part of that is I don't think that there is a tension, sexually tension, between either of the couples.

[01:10:55] No, you're right.

[01:10:56] It's very puppy dog love with Tom Hardy.

[01:10:58] And Chris Pine, they want a little more of that carnal desire.

[01:11:02] I mean, you do have that...

[01:11:04] We all do, brother.

[01:11:05] You do have that like very beautifully shot like love scene on a counter with Chris Pine and her.

[01:11:12] But like that doesn't mean there's actual like sparks coming off of them either.

[01:11:17] I did...

[01:11:17] I did...

[01:11:18] I have a note somewhere.

[01:11:20] I...

[01:11:20] Part of this review, Cam and I had to dig out our old notes from this film.

[01:11:23] I can't find the exact note.

[01:11:25] I did note down...

[01:11:25] I feel like she was like wearing something quite provocative in that scene.

[01:11:30] Yeah.

[01:11:30] That was a bit like much for what they were doing.

[01:11:32] She was.

[01:11:33] Yeah.

[01:11:33] It was very fancy lingerie.

[01:11:35] Yeah.

[01:11:36] I mean, ladies, dress however you want to make yourself happy.

[01:11:39] Men listening too.

[01:11:41] Dress however you want to make yourself feel fancy.

[01:11:43] No problem with that.

[01:11:44] What I'm saying is it's that McG coveting again.

[01:11:49] Yeah.

[01:11:50] And I think one thing too, if this movie's made now, and again, made in 2012, she would

[01:11:55] be wise to what they're doing at a certain point and would twist it on them.

[01:11:59] Yeah.

[01:12:00] I think that is the perfect like third act twist.

[01:12:04] Mm-hmm.

[01:12:04] Yeah.

[01:12:05] She learns about it through like Chelsea Handler finds them doing it or something like

[01:12:09] that.

[01:12:10] Like you tie her into it a bit more as well and they run a game on them both.

[01:12:16] Maybe that's...

[01:12:17] Maybe she arranges dinner for them both and they both come to that dinner scene.

[01:12:20] Something like that.

[01:12:21] You know?

[01:12:22] She forces the head to head.

[01:12:24] Yeah.

[01:12:24] As opposed to discovering it and then being whisked away as kind of a damsel in distress

[01:12:28] for Till Schweiger to hold on to.

[01:12:30] Yeah.

[01:12:31] Which I think moves me beautifully onto my major dislike.

[01:12:35] Hmm.

[01:12:36] Which is...

[01:12:37] The villain?

[01:12:39] Sure.

[01:12:40] Yeah.

[01:12:40] This reminded me of another villain we saw fairly recently in another spy comedy.

[01:12:45] Care to remind me?

[01:12:47] Yes.

[01:12:47] The villain in My Spy.

[01:12:49] There was a villain in My Spy?

[01:12:51] Again, it feels kind of cut to the bone.

[01:12:53] And I wonder, like given the amount of deleted scenes that this movie seems to have, if a lot

[01:12:58] of the villain material hit the floor.

[01:13:01] Yeah.

[01:13:01] And I think, you know, the money is with Reese Witherspoon, Chris Pine, and Tom Hardy, ultimately.

[01:13:08] So you want to spend your time with them.

[01:13:10] But this is also a 90-minute film.

[01:13:12] Yeah.

[01:13:12] Just about.

[01:13:13] Like, it is pretty lean.

[01:13:16] I'm sure there is an hour and 45 version of this where you get a few more scenes of the

[01:13:20] Till Schweiger character pontificating and et cetera, et cetera.

[01:13:24] Yeah.

[01:13:25] And it's one of those things where it's like, and we've encountered this in the past, where

[01:13:28] you want to balance the comedy with the spy plot.

[01:13:32] And the spy plot is usually not funny.

[01:13:34] So you don't want to put too much emphasis on it.

[01:13:37] But in this case, I think they had enough of the actual kind of spy plot elements.

[01:13:42] But the villain kind of vanished.

[01:13:45] Like, you didn't have a very strong presence for Till Schweiger.

[01:13:48] Well, he genuinely just disappears from the film for a good 45 minutes.

[01:13:52] Yeah.

[01:13:53] Yeah.

[01:13:55] And you just sort of get a sense, oh, he's back in the game.

[01:13:58] Oh, and this is the final act.

[01:13:59] And that's it, basically.

[01:14:02] I think it's probably quite a tough job trying to balance all these things simultaneously,

[01:14:07] a spy plot, comedy, romance.

[01:14:10] But yeah, it just feels like it's a loose thread in this tapestry.

[01:14:15] Like, another version of this film, you might have got a bit more from the villain.

[01:14:19] Any other dislikes from you, Cam?

[01:14:22] Yeah.

[01:14:22] Yeah, there is one, actually, that was kind of a surprise, which is how much Angela Bassett

[01:14:27] is wasted in this movie.

[01:14:29] She's introduced as their boss.

[01:14:31] Oh, yeah.

[01:14:32] And you're like, it's Angela Bassett.

[01:14:34] Like, one of the greatest actresses around and really doesn't do very much.

[01:14:41] And again, I then wonder, was there material that hit the cutting room floor with her?

[01:14:45] Well, I mean, there's a whole reason there's a different cut of this film out there.

[01:14:49] Yeah.

[01:14:50] Yeah.

[01:14:50] Because I thought, like, what a great presence as someone who's going to come in and be,

[01:14:55] you know, kind of the tough boss.

[01:14:57] We've seen her do it again in the Mission Impossible series.

[01:15:00] And also in, not a good movie, but Green Lantern, where she played the role that Viola Davis would

[01:15:05] play in the Suicide Squad films.

[01:15:07] And, like, great casting.

[01:15:09] Like, a strong, forceful presence that you would buy as a badass boss.

[01:15:13] And I was hoping we'd see a little more of that here, but we really got nothing.

[01:15:17] Yeah.

[01:15:18] I don't know if I necessarily missed it.

[01:15:21] I think it would probably draw too much attention away.

[01:15:23] It's kind of like Charlton Heston in True Lies.

[01:15:27] Like, it's fun when it's there.

[01:15:29] That felt like stunt casting, though.

[01:15:31] Yeah.

[01:15:32] I don't know if the boss is that important to want to spend too much time around.

[01:15:36] You get, what, two scenes of M in a Bond film?

[01:15:39] That's true.

[01:15:40] Um, but I would say, like, Charlton Heston, they made kind of a funny deal with that,

[01:15:45] where they dressed him basically like Nick Fury from Marvel Comics with the eyepatch and

[01:15:48] all that.

[01:15:49] Yeah.

[01:15:49] Like, you remember his one scene.

[01:15:51] Uh-huh.

[01:15:51] Can you tell me anything from the Angela Bassett scene in this movie?

[01:15:54] Isn't he called, like, Falcon or something like that as well?

[01:15:56] I think so, yeah.

[01:15:58] Yeah.

[01:15:58] I don't know why that stuck with me, but yeah.

[01:16:00] Yeah.

[01:16:00] I couldn't tell you anything about Angela Bassett, though.

[01:16:03] Exactly.

[01:16:03] And to me, that's kind of, if it is stunt casting for one scene, then it didn't really

[01:16:07] click.

[01:16:08] No.

[01:16:08] Okay.

[01:16:08] Okay.

[01:16:09] Uh, I think you're fair.

[01:16:10] I think you're right on that one.

[01:16:12] The last dislike I had, and there's a reason I haven't really spoken about this character

[01:16:16] or this actress slash comedian too much, is I just find whatever Chelsea Handler's shtick

[01:16:23] is, she can shtick it somewhere else.

[01:16:31] She is a polarizing comic figure.

[01:16:34] That is for sure.

[01:16:34] That is for sure.

[01:16:36] Well, she definitely polarized me.

[01:16:39] I feel polarized.

[01:16:41] I am very negative if we're going with one side of a battery on her performance.

[01:16:48] And, um, there's always this idea that comedians, especially improv comedians, like, make up scripts.

[01:16:55] I wouldn't be surprised if most of what she said was already in the script.

[01:16:58] I'm sure we'll ask Tim about that later this week.

[01:17:00] Um, but it wasn't even necessarily the lines she was saying a lot of the time.

[01:17:07] It was the delivery.

[01:17:09] She just doesn't feel like an actor.

[01:17:11] She feels like a comedian doing a bit part in a film.

[01:17:14] Like, if we take True Lies, if we want to weave that in for a second, you've got Tom Arnold,

[01:17:19] who is, you know, comedian, public speaker, radio host, all sorts of stuff.

[01:17:24] The man's a busy guy.

[01:17:26] I think he blends into True Lies a lot better than Chelsea Handler blends into This Means War.

[01:17:32] I like the scenes between her and her husband where they're, like, having Cheetos sex.

[01:17:38] Of course you do.

[01:17:39] That's your favorite type of sex.

[01:17:42] Like, to me, that was, like, kind of funny.

[01:17:44] Uh-huh.

[01:17:45] That worked because it was actually a character in their own little world.

[01:17:48] But when she was basically Reese Witherspoon's, uh, comedian best friend, who's just kind

[01:17:55] of, like, riffing off everything Reese Witherspoon is telling her, that didn't really work for

[01:17:59] me.

[01:17:59] I didn't even like the relationship-y stuff with her husband because it felt too zany for the

[01:18:05] rest of the film.

[01:18:06] Mm, yeah.

[01:18:07] Like, if that's scripted or that's an idea that came up on set, I don't.

[01:18:12] We'll get into that.

[01:18:13] But it's more like it feels so far outside the world of this film.

[01:18:17] Not that couples don't do that sort of thing.

[01:18:20] You know, you could be, you know, Miss Congeniality in the streets and a freak in the sheets.

[01:18:26] That's all good.

[01:18:27] You do you, folks.

[01:18:28] What I mean is, like, it just feels tonally way off base from the rest of the film.

[01:18:34] Yeah, although the movie never convinced me it was set in reality.

[01:18:38] So, it's like that character.

[01:18:40] Yeah, but it's not like Charlie's Angels 2 where, like, gravity doesn't exist.

[01:18:43] Like, there is still some fundamental laws of physics happening here.

[01:18:46] And, like, I don't know.

[01:18:48] There was...

[01:18:49] The tone wasn't wacky.

[01:18:52] It was light comedy.

[01:18:55] Was she at a place in a movie where Chris Pine has, like, a swimming pool in his ceiling

[01:18:59] where he's watching women swim?

[01:19:01] I don't know.

[01:19:01] Well, he's rich.

[01:19:02] He is rich.

[01:19:03] I don't know how he's rich, but...

[01:19:05] Rich people get what they want.

[01:19:05] I guess.

[01:19:06] Rich CIA agents?

[01:19:07] Sure thing.

[01:19:08] Well, I mean, he's never had a long-term relationship.

[01:19:11] Tom Hardy has less money because he got married and had a kid.

[01:19:14] Oh, that's true.

[01:19:15] Okay, fair enough.

[01:19:16] There you go.

[01:19:17] I just accidentally proved that.

[01:19:19] There you go.

[01:19:22] But, you know, I think your mileage will vary.

[01:19:27] Put it that way, folks.

[01:19:27] If you haven't watched the film yet and you're going to do it after this review,

[01:19:30] your mileage will vary with the Chelsea Handley character.

[01:19:33] If you like her stand-up, you probably will enjoy this.

[01:19:35] If you've never heard of her, it'll be a Marmite test for you.

[01:19:40] Yeah, and that's the case, I think, with all of her comedy,

[01:19:44] judging from what I've heard over the years.

[01:19:46] So, yeah.

[01:19:47] Well, there we go.

[01:19:49] Any final notes on This Means War before we get to the knock list, Cameron?

[01:19:53] A couple key things.

[01:19:54] I mentioned this was shot in Vancouver,

[01:19:56] and this is one of the best Vancouver films I've seen,

[01:20:01] especially in the spy genre.

[01:20:03] We need to keep track of this.

[01:20:05] Like, the spy film shot in Vancouver,

[01:20:07] because I know we've got this now.

[01:20:09] Yeah.

[01:20:09] We've got X vs. Sever Ballistic.

[01:20:13] Ballistic X vs. Sever, yeah.

[01:20:14] We haven't tackled that yet, but yes.

[01:20:16] Yeah.

[01:20:16] The Russia House shot bits.

[01:20:18] Yeah, little bits.

[01:20:19] Yeah, a couple.

[01:20:21] This Means War.

[01:20:22] No, Art of War?

[01:20:24] Art of War.

[01:20:26] No, no.

[01:20:27] Not Art of War.

[01:20:27] Cats and Dogs 1 and 2.

[01:20:30] Bad Company?

[01:20:31] Is it that one?

[01:20:32] Bad Company was, yes.

[01:20:33] They used it as Seattle, yes.

[01:20:35] Right.

[01:20:35] So we've got five there.

[01:20:37] Yeah, we've got a few.

[01:20:38] But this one, even though it's quote-unquote L.A.,

[01:20:43] it really showcases Vancouver locations very well.

[01:20:48] Like, Tom Hardy and Reese Witherspoon go on a date at the Blarney Stone,

[01:20:51] which is a really popular Irish pub in Vancouver.

[01:20:54] I've been there myself.

[01:20:56] Cool.

[01:20:57] The video store they go to, which I guess was a video store,

[01:21:01] but in real life was first a Virgin Megastore,

[01:21:04] and then later an HMV Megastore.

[01:21:07] That place, that was the place to hang out

[01:21:10] when you were in your, like, 20s or late teens in Vancouver back in the day

[01:21:16] because it had listening stations.

[01:21:17] It was three floors.

[01:21:19] There was so much to see,

[01:21:21] and you would just go and hang out there for hours.

[01:21:24] And I did make a note, though.

[01:21:26] Reese Witherspoon is going through movies

[01:21:29] when Chris Pine comes to talk to her,

[01:21:32] and I made note of what she was actually looking at.

[01:21:35] So initially, she's holding a copy

[01:21:36] of the 1990s Kiefer Sutherland film The Vanishing,

[01:21:41] which was really badly reviewed,

[01:21:44] and he puts it down.

[01:21:45] He says,

[01:21:45] don't take that.

[01:21:46] Trust me on that one.

[01:21:48] Which apparently was true.

[01:21:50] Then she goes and looks with him at The Lady Vanishes,

[01:21:53] the Hitchcock film,

[01:21:55] which she later says was mid-tier Hitchcock,

[01:21:57] but at the time she says, you know,

[01:21:59] that she's seen it and likes it.

[01:22:02] And I also noticed on that Hitchcock display,

[01:22:04] Topaz was there as well,

[01:22:06] and Rope.

[01:22:07] But then she decides that,

[01:22:10] you know what?

[01:22:11] I want to go and take my own movie.

[01:22:13] I'm not going to let Chris Pine influence me.

[01:22:15] And I had to pause it because she grabs it so quickly.

[01:22:19] And in my mind, I'm like,

[01:22:20] it must be something kind of obscure

[01:22:22] because they're not showcasing what it is.

[01:22:25] It is The Empire Strikes Back.

[01:22:30] Oh, so she's a Star Wars fan.

[01:22:33] So she's a bit of a nerd.

[01:22:34] But it's also like,

[01:22:35] she hasn't seen The Empire Strikes Back before

[01:22:38] or owns it.

[01:22:39] Well, maybe she just doesn't have it on home video.

[01:22:41] It's just odd to me because like,

[01:22:44] she likes classic movies, clearly,

[01:22:46] because later on we see her watching

[01:22:47] Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

[01:22:51] But yeah, Empire Strikes Back.

[01:22:52] I thought that was fascinating.

[01:22:54] I mean, sometimes you just need to watch that film.

[01:22:57] It's a pretty good Star Wars film.

[01:22:59] Oh, it's great.

[01:23:00] But should she have grabbed

[01:23:03] Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid?

[01:23:05] Well, I think she already had that.

[01:23:07] Yeah, but if she grabs it then,

[01:23:08] then you cut to her later watching it?

[01:23:10] I don't know.

[01:23:11] Ah, okay.

[01:23:12] So that like location in Vancouver,

[01:23:15] it was so much fun to see

[01:23:16] because it's been shut down for years now.

[01:23:18] They turned it into a Victoria's Secret.

[01:23:20] And I think now they're changing it to something else.

[01:23:22] And yet you still keep turning up there to pick up chicks.

[01:23:25] Like, what are you doing?

[01:23:26] Right.

[01:23:27] They also go to Playland at one point,

[01:23:30] which was used as a location in Cats and Dogs 2,

[01:23:33] I think it was.

[01:23:36] So that was exciting.

[01:23:38] Like a carnival, right?

[01:23:39] Yeah, that's right.

[01:23:40] Yeah, yeah.

[01:23:41] Okay, that's Cats and Dogs 2.

[01:23:42] Why do I remember that?

[01:23:44] Oh, God.

[01:23:45] Yeah.

[01:23:45] Oh, no.

[01:23:46] Yeah, okay.

[01:23:47] Okay.

[01:23:48] Well, here's a question for you then.

[01:23:50] The listeners probably won't care,

[01:23:52] but I'm genuinely curious.

[01:23:54] Of the five films I just highlighted,

[01:23:57] there's probably a couple more

[01:23:57] that we've seen so far in our run

[01:23:59] that was shot in Vancouver,

[01:24:00] but let's go from those five.

[01:24:01] Which does the best at portraying Vancouver?

[01:24:06] Well, this does the best at portraying locations in Vancouver

[01:24:10] because they even go to the library,

[01:24:11] the Vancouver library,

[01:24:12] and it looks great here too.

[01:24:14] But in terms of portraying Vancouver,

[01:24:18] God, I mean, like,

[01:24:20] none of them really say it's Vancouver.

[01:24:23] So I don't know.

[01:24:25] They always say it's like Seattle

[01:24:26] or California or another location.

[01:24:28] Okay.

[01:24:29] So I guess, I suppose then,

[01:24:30] if someone saw this film and was like,

[01:24:32] where was that shot and found out it was Vancouver,

[01:24:34] maybe someone moved there off the back of this film.

[01:24:37] Yeah, this is the best so far

[01:24:38] in terms of just showcasing locations.

[01:24:42] But Ballistic X vs. Sever

[01:24:43] is actually set in Vancouver.

[01:24:45] So I'll have to judge that one when we get there.

[01:24:47] Yeah, I think it's already been pretty well judged,

[01:24:50] but we'll add something to it.

[01:24:51] Yes.

[01:24:52] Yes.

[01:24:53] And then the only other final note I had

[01:24:55] was at one point,

[01:24:56] there is a music cue of Sabotage by the Beastie Boys,

[01:25:01] which clearly inspired by Chris Pine in Star Trek 2009.

[01:25:06] It just left me asking the question,

[01:25:10] why?

[01:25:13] I never liked that song drop

[01:25:14] in the Star Trek JJ Verse films.

[01:25:17] And I didn't mind it here

[01:25:20] because it had nothing to do with it.

[01:25:22] But like those,

[01:25:23] the ones in the JJ Verse films,

[01:25:25] I just can't stand.

[01:25:26] Yeah, especially the second usage.

[01:25:29] Yeah.

[01:25:30] Classical Rock or something like that.

[01:25:32] Sophia Batella's character shouts out.

[01:25:34] Or like,

[01:25:34] or Scotty,

[01:25:36] the Doohan character,

[01:25:38] not Doohan.

[01:25:39] Simon.

[01:25:40] Scott has gone down a rabbit hole there, folks.

[01:25:44] My Trek knowledge plus flu,

[01:25:46] it's all going out the window

[01:25:47] or out of my sinuses,

[01:25:48] either way.

[01:25:49] That's what you call a NyQuil hallucination.

[01:25:52] That's what you call it.

[01:25:54] Gobbledygook is what I call it.

[01:25:56] Yeah,

[01:25:57] I did notice that needle drop.

[01:25:58] And yeah,

[01:26:00] I question

[01:26:01] why any other film would do it,

[01:26:03] but it was fine here.

[01:26:04] Yeah,

[01:26:04] totally.

[01:26:05] The last note,

[01:26:06] and again,

[01:26:07] I'm sorry,

[01:26:08] North American listeners

[01:26:09] for piling on a little bit,

[01:26:10] but I think Tom Hardy was robbed here.

[01:26:13] Can we just talk about the fact

[01:26:15] that

[01:26:16] she chose the guy

[01:26:17] who turned up at her work

[01:26:19] and embarrassed her

[01:26:20] in front of people

[01:26:21] who actually are hiring her

[01:26:22] to do a poll on something?

[01:26:24] Yeah.

[01:26:24] Like,

[01:26:24] how the hell does she go with that guy?

[01:26:28] And then also at the end,

[01:26:29] we find out that he slept

[01:26:30] with Tom Hardy's wife

[01:26:31] as well.

[01:26:32] Yeah.

[01:26:33] Chris Pine is our good guy.

[01:26:35] That's right, folks.

[01:26:36] Yeah.

[01:26:37] Root for old Chrissy,

[01:26:38] the American way.

[01:26:40] How stand that union?

[01:26:42] It doesn't stand so strong.

[01:26:45] Here's my question to you.

[01:26:46] Okay.

[01:26:47] How long does this relationship

[01:26:49] with Reese Witherspoon

[01:26:50] and him last?

[01:26:51] I don't see them

[01:26:52] going the distance.

[01:26:53] No way.

[01:26:54] I tell you,

[01:26:55] this is what I would hypothesize.

[01:26:59] Six months,

[01:27:01] like,

[01:27:02] traveling the world fling,

[01:27:03] all that sort of stuff,

[01:27:04] they get hitched.

[01:27:06] Mm-hmm.

[01:27:07] Like one of those quick

[01:27:08] get hitched,

[01:27:09] and then reality sets in.

[01:27:11] And they are divorced

[01:27:12] within a year.

[01:27:14] Does Tom Hardy

[01:27:15] make it work

[01:27:16] with the ex-wife?

[01:27:17] Over a long period of time.

[01:27:19] Yes,

[01:27:19] because he was the nicer person

[01:27:20] that should have been picked.

[01:27:21] Okay.

[01:27:22] Yeah, yeah.

[01:27:23] And she is going to text him

[01:27:26] after her and Chris Pine

[01:27:27] have broken up

[01:27:27] and been like,

[01:27:28] hey,

[01:27:29] how you been?

[01:27:30] And he's like,

[01:27:31] sorry,

[01:27:31] I'm out with the wife.

[01:27:33] Right.

[01:27:34] F you,

[01:27:35] mate.

[01:27:36] He's like,

[01:27:37] advantage,

[01:27:37] hearty.

[01:27:39] It's like,

[01:27:40] that's not even the character's name.

[01:27:43] That's also usually what I text you.

[01:27:45] Yeah,

[01:27:46] exactly.

[01:27:46] Yeah,

[01:27:46] exactly.

[01:27:47] Yeah.

[01:27:47] But like,

[01:27:48] you can't show up at someone's work.

[01:27:50] You're trying to like,

[01:27:51] woo,

[01:27:52] and it completely embarrass them

[01:27:53] and expect them to fall at your feet.

[01:27:55] That is not how I met my girlfriend.

[01:27:58] No.

[01:27:58] It is how I met you.

[01:28:00] That's true.

[01:28:01] That is true.

[01:28:02] Yeah.

[01:28:02] I came in,

[01:28:03] I started criticizing your bread.

[01:28:05] Yeah,

[01:28:06] and you got me fired.

[01:28:07] These baguettes,

[01:28:08] I got you fired.

[01:28:09] And then you were like,

[01:28:10] now you got time to do a podcast.

[01:28:12] Yeah.

[01:28:13] And edit it,

[01:28:14] which is basically your day job now.

[01:28:16] That's right.

[01:28:16] An unpaid day job.

[01:28:18] Well,

[01:28:19] it is paid.

[01:28:20] Patreon.com slash spyhards.

[01:28:22] You got to feed Cam, folks.

[01:28:24] That's true.

[01:28:24] That's true.

[01:28:25] He's literally just drinking water

[01:28:27] and that's all he's got left.

[01:28:29] I send him kibble from time to time.

[01:28:30] Dirty water too.

[01:28:32] Oh.

[01:28:34] It felt bad,

[01:28:35] the heck?

[01:28:36] I'm not even doing that.

[01:28:40] Well,

[01:28:40] okay.

[01:28:41] Knock list time,

[01:28:42] Cam.

[01:28:42] The question,

[01:28:44] as always,

[01:28:45] is,

[01:28:45] the film we're talking about,

[01:28:47] this means war,

[01:28:48] making the list

[01:28:48] of the need to see official classics

[01:28:50] of the spy movie genre.

[01:28:52] You get the first vote.

[01:28:54] What do you say?

[01:28:55] Yeah,

[01:28:55] it's a no for me.

[01:28:57] I think like it was kind of a mixed bag.

[01:29:00] You know,

[01:29:01] we shouted out the elements that really worked

[01:29:03] and then there was enough elements

[01:29:05] that didn't work

[01:29:06] that I was kind of like sitting somewhere

[01:29:07] in the middle

[01:29:08] and leaning towards no on this one.

[01:29:11] But,

[01:29:12] you know,

[01:29:12] it is in good company

[01:29:13] with a lot of other spy comedies.

[01:29:16] I know

[01:29:17] that there are some

[01:29:18] that are going to make the list.

[01:29:19] Like,

[01:29:19] I know what they are.

[01:29:20] Yeah.

[01:29:21] And we haven't tackled them yet.

[01:29:23] We will.

[01:29:24] But,

[01:29:25] this one isn't

[01:29:26] necessarily in their company.

[01:29:29] No.

[01:29:30] I think I agree with you

[01:29:31] on that.

[01:29:32] I think it's a no from me too.

[01:29:33] I will say,

[01:29:34] I didn't mention this earlier,

[01:29:36] but in defense

[01:29:36] of Reese Witherspoon's character,

[01:29:38] and the one thing

[01:29:39] I was on board with

[01:29:40] with her

[01:29:40] is that when

[01:29:43] Chris Pine's character

[01:29:44] said to watch

[01:29:45] Lady Vanishes,

[01:29:46] she replied with,

[01:29:47] no,

[01:29:48] I'd rather watch Notorious.

[01:29:50] True.

[01:29:50] And my heart fluttered

[01:29:52] a little bit,

[01:29:52] I have to say.

[01:29:54] But,

[01:29:54] two no's,

[01:29:55] and as such,

[01:29:56] This Means War

[01:29:57] is not making the knock list.

[01:29:59] The dossier on the film

[01:30:00] is complete

[01:30:01] and filed as classified,

[01:30:02] but make sure you stay tuned

[01:30:03] into later this week, folks.

[01:30:04] As we take our questions

[01:30:06] to one of the writers

[01:30:08] on the film,

[01:30:08] Mr Timothy Dowling,

[01:30:09] it's sure to be

[01:30:10] an insightful discussion.

[01:30:12] That's right.

[01:30:13] Moving on

[01:30:13] from This Means War,

[01:30:17] what do we have

[01:30:17] our sights

[01:30:19] set on next week?

[01:30:21] Well,

[01:30:23] these stars

[01:30:23] we talked about

[01:30:24] with This Means War

[01:30:26] were really having

[01:30:26] a moment in 2012,

[01:30:28] right?

[01:30:28] Like,

[01:30:28] this is them

[01:30:29] where they're like

[01:30:30] the hot,

[01:30:30] young,

[01:30:31] rising talent.

[01:30:32] And we're going to go

[01:30:33] to another movie

[01:30:34] which featured

[01:30:34] another star

[01:30:35] who was really

[01:30:36] on the rise.

[01:30:37] We're going to go back

[01:30:38] to 1999

[01:30:39] and look at the

[01:30:40] Ashley Judd thriller

[01:30:41] Eye of the Beholder.

[01:30:43] Ashley Judd,

[01:30:43] for those who maybe

[01:30:44] have forgotten,

[01:30:45] really was like

[01:30:45] a cottage industry

[01:30:46] for a while

[01:30:47] for these R-rated thrillers.

[01:30:49] So we're going to go back

[01:30:50] and see if

[01:30:50] Eye of the Beholder

[01:30:51] stands up.

[01:30:52] And as well,

[01:30:53] that movie co-stars

[01:30:53] Ewan McGregor

[01:30:54] also having a moment

[01:30:56] himself,

[01:30:56] releasing this

[01:30:57] the same year

[01:30:58] as The Phantom Menace.

[01:30:59] So a pretty big

[01:31:01] year for them both,

[01:31:02] really.

[01:31:02] Yeah.

[01:31:03] Yeah.

[01:31:03] Yeah.

[01:31:04] Not a film I've seen,

[01:31:06] although Eye of the Beholder,

[01:31:07] and not one that often

[01:31:08] gets spoken about online,

[01:31:09] much,

[01:31:10] what I thought

[01:31:10] This Means War

[01:31:11] was the same.

[01:31:12] Is it for the same

[01:31:13] reasons, though?

[01:31:14] We'll find out next week

[01:31:15] your mission,

[01:31:16] should you choose to accept it,

[01:31:17] is to join us

[01:31:17] as we take a look

[01:31:18] at Eye of the Beholder.

[01:31:21] Don't forget

[01:31:22] to support us

[01:31:23] over on Patreon.

[01:31:24] Fifth cheap plug

[01:31:25] of the episode,

[01:31:26] and I am not stopping there.

[01:31:27] I am determined

[01:31:28] to get you all over

[01:31:29] to our Patreon

[01:31:30] to help keep the lights

[01:31:31] on SpyHards HQ

[01:31:32] and keep Cam

[01:31:33] and the Piranha Tank

[01:31:35] well fed.

[01:31:37] My children are hungry.

[01:31:38] Feed them.

[01:31:40] They're currently feasting

[01:31:41] on Cam himself.

[01:31:42] That's right.

[01:31:44] One leg down.

[01:31:46] And don't forget

[01:31:47] to follow us

[01:31:47] discreetly as always

[01:31:48] on social media

[01:31:49] at SpyHards

[01:31:50] that's S-P-Y-H-A-R-D-S

[01:31:52] on Facebook,

[01:31:53] X,

[01:31:53] Instagram,

[01:31:55] TikTok,

[01:31:56] Threads,

[01:31:56] Blue Sky,

[01:31:58] there's probably

[01:31:59] some other ones

[01:31:59] I've missed

[01:32:00] that I'm probably

[01:32:00] on,

[01:32:01] and come and say hi

[01:32:02] and join the discussion.

[01:32:03] Tell us what you thought

[01:32:04] of This Means War.

[01:32:05] We'd love to hear

[01:32:06] from you,

[01:32:07] but until next week,

[01:32:09] folks,

[01:32:10] you'll find Cam

[01:32:11] and I off to the doctor

[01:32:13] for a consultant

[01:32:14] about getting a penile reduction.

[01:32:16] S-P-Y-H-A-R-N-I-S